Howard Dean, New DNC Chairman

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Will this help or hurt the Dems? All we hear is that the Democratic party needs to move closer to the center. Howard Dean leans more to the left.

New DNC CHairman, Howard Dean (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050212/ap_on_re_us/democrats_3)

I dont care, I just don't care, I really dont care. F U Howard Stern!!!!!

[furie]

actually liked dean. the media just murdered him, and they'll continue to do so.


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[Fallon]

Yeah!

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[JPMNICK]

I think this was a BAD move. They Dems need a new face and plan. He tried and did not make it. They have potential on Obama for later on, but they should have found someone new to appeal to the country.

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[GodsFavoriteMan]

Democrats don't need to move any further right (or to the center--whatever). As a matter of fact, what they should do is use the Christian tactics against the Republicans. If you get the moderate Christians to think, "Hmm. . .maybe not all Republican values match with my Christian values," then they'd listen. Work that in without alienating the church and state seperators, then they've got a shot.

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[badorties]

dean's a much better idea than the olde regime of clinton's gaggle ...

hopefully, he'll move the party back to the left with a more progressive platform to present a more viable option against the right ...



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[42nd-delay]

He's the party chair, not the candidate, so I don't it's that important to have some perceived to be more in the middle. But I think Dean is more moderate than he's been portrayed, and more importantly, no matter what, he's firm and sincere in his beliefs, which is something that has an impact with people.

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"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[ChickenHawk]

The Democratic party continues to move further in the wrong direction.

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[Bulldogcakes]

Democrats don't need to move any further right (or to the center--whatever). As a matter of fact, what they should do is use the Christian tactics against the Republicans. If you get the moderate Christians to think, "Hmm. . .maybe not all Republican values match with my Christian values," then they'd listen. Work that in without alienating the church and state seperators, then they've got a shot.

What you've described IS a move to the center, and I agree they should do it. How Republicans have cornered the Christian market is beyond me. On policy Dems could appeal to alot of Christians, though on politics they always seem opposed to Catholics/ Christians. They need to cut loose some of the small, extreme elements of their party, like the Republicans did with Pat Buchanan in 92 and 96. And like Bill Clinton did with Sister Soljah. Run to the middle, thats where you win elections.

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[Death Metal Moe]

Oh man, I couldn't have wished for a better Chairman.

I'll say one thing about him. I really believe that HE believes his wrong political stances. And that is important to people in the Democratic Party who agree with him.

He'll drive the Democrats into the ground, and for that, I love him.

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[TheMojoPin]

Oh, horseshit.

The Democrats NOW are failing because too often they come across as just Republican-lite, or too plain wishy-washy and centrist. They're all little Clinton clones, John Kerry first among them.

The party needs to move further to the left, period.

The Democrats dominated the congress for 60 years until the 90's when Clinton and his wishy-washiness took over. Before that, the Dems dominated by being the most radically left and progessive congress since the founding fathers themselves. If the country isn't "liberal," then how the fuck did liberals essentially control it for more than half a century?

The Republicans took control a decade ago by pushing further to the right and galvanizing what it meant to be a conservative. People voted for them and vote for them today because they'll actually come out and stand for something, be it right or wrong. The Democrats, for the most part, flip-flop and are vague on too much for people to really stand behind them. A concerted push to the left would solidy just who and what they stand for, and would draw back all the non-voting and "undecided" voters to typically lean to the left, and did for the bulk of the 20th century.

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[A.J.]

Going from McAuliffe to Dean is like going from Lenny Wilkens to Herb Williams.

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[PapaBear]

My local paper (The Winchester Star) chose to run the story with the obligatory photo of "Dean's Scream". The paper is well known for being conservative. It would be interesting to see what photos went with the story in more Liberal or middle of the road papers. By the way... does anyone have a copy of the un-altered tape of that night? The news media digitally filtered out the crowd noise so you could hear his scream better. From what I've heard, when you hear the tape in context, he was just trying to be heard over the crowd.

[42nd-delay]

It's likely that they just had a feed from the mic. It's not like a band recording where they mike the audience. People who were there said it was really loud and that they didn't even notice the scream.

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"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

[Bulldogcakes]

The Democrats NOW are failing because too often they come across as just Republican-lite, or too plain wishy-washy and centrist. They're all little Clinton clones, John Kerry first among them.

On this point, you couldn't be more wrong. John Kerry had an almost perfect rating from various liberal watchdog groups, and an F fron the NRA. His record in the Senate was consistently to the left. Plus he's from a very liberal state, where a republican would be a liberal in most other parts of the country. You had a liberal run, and he lost.

The party needs to move further to the left, period.
The Democrats dominated the congress for 60 years until the 90's when Clinton and his wishy-washiness took over. Before that, the Dems dominated by being the most radically left and progessive congress since the founding fathers themselves. If the country isn't "liberal," then how the fuck did liberals essentially control it for more than half a century?

Again, way off. Clinton lost the house in 94 by trying to shove National Health care down our throats, which the left has wanted for years, but the rest of the country doesn't. People will take change piece meal, but big change tends to get a big reaction from the other side. So, the Clintons weren't wishy washy, they tried to do too much, too soon.

The Republicans took control a decade ago by pushing further to the right and galvanizing what it meant to be a conservative. People voted for them and vote for them today because they'll actually come out and stand for something, be it right or wrong. The Democrats, for the most part, flip-flop and are vague on too much for people to really stand behind them. A concerted push to the left would solidy just who and what they stand for, and would draw back all the non-voting and "undecided" voters to typically lean to the left, and did for the bulk of the 20th century

Agreed. And this always befuddles me about the Left. Someone can argue for single payer for half an hour, then when you say "So you want Canada's national health care system?" They run away from it.
May have something to do with the way folks on the Left embrace complexities, while the Right values simplicity. Or maybe its that most liberal men are pussy whipped and their wives dont know what they want. :eg:
Hooo ahhhh!! I couldn't resist that one!



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[torker]

The party needs to move further to the left, period.

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[Bulldogcakes]

Torker, you are one funny motherfucker.

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[LordJezo]

He said in one of his speeches he hates republicans and all they stand for. Screw you buddy. Never even met me and already he hates me.

Heh. What a loon. One can only hope he destroys the democratic party even more.


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[keithy_19]

I don't see how this is a good move. The Democratic party chose to run with John Kerry, the farthest left in the senate and they lost. Maybe fi they went with a person more in the middle they could pick up more votes in the midwest and maybe win the next election if they are showing strides at becoming more middle of the road.

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[GodsFavoriteMan]

Instead of saying "he was rated most liberal by XYZ polling partners" how about giving us examples about how John Kerry's platform was so liberal. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't enough.

And Bulldog, I didn't mean they should start embracing "Christian" policies, but rather point out how many Republican policies are not "Christian." And rather, how many of their Democratic policies could be seen as "Christian." It worked back during the FDR days in Oklahoma. And he's been about the most liberal president in our nation.

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[furie]

this didn't take long (http://www.cafepress.com/beatbushgear/456299)


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[Bulldogcakes]

Judging by National Journal's congressional vote ratings, however, Kerry and Edwards aren't all that different, at least not when it comes to how they voted on key issues before the Senate last year. The results of the vote ratings show that Kerry was the most liberal senator in 2003, with a composite liberal score of 96.5. link (http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0204/022704nj1.htm)

Also throw in 92% lifetime rating by the Americans for Democratic Action.

I didn't refer to the platform, because I think they're all complete bullshit. The Republican platforn has said for years they want to ban abortion. I dont believe that for a second, or that they'll ever try to. Makes Pat Robertson happy. Bullshit.

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[FMJeff]

Plus he's from a very liberal state, where a republican would be a liberal in most other parts of the country. You had a liberal run, and he lost.



During wartime, and he was one of the most successful losers against a wartime incumbent. Who knows what could have happened if they put Kerry up instead of Gore...

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[TheMojoPin]

No matter how people try and spin it, John Kerry is NOT a liberal. He has slight liberal leanings, as most Democrats do, and he's more liberal then Republicans, BUT HE IS NOT A LIBERAL. He's a Clintonia Democrat through and through.

He didn't lose because he was "too liberal." People who think that would NEVER vote for a Democrat in the first place. He lost because the typically left-leaning undecided voters and non-voters opted to not vote for him because he stood for zilch except an anti-Bush campaign. The Republicans, on the other hand, by focusing their conservatism, drew out many non-voters that typically leaned to the right when they actually do vote. Hence why they won.

And it's ridiculous to hear conservatives say that Democrats need to "move more to the middle to win," when their party started winning a decade ago by continually moving further and further AWAY from the middle.

People want to vote for people who stand for something, it's that simple. Right now, Democrats stand for nothing except "I'm against the Republicans!" The classically liberal Democrats that essentially controlled the US government for the bulk of the 20th century weren't always right, but they had no problem taking a stand. What happened?

This is a deeply liberal country, since the start. That's not to say there's no room for Republicans...we're all in this together. But this nouveau smear campaign to paint "liberals" as something bad or even evil, and make the word "liberal" some kind of slur is asinine.

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This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 2-13-05 @ 10:27 PM

[42nd-delay]

Well said, Mojopin. Kerry wasn't that liberal. Look at
Kuchinch. Kerry just fit a stereotype of wishy-washy liberals.

Democrats need to regain their identity. Democrats need to
regain their confidence. When they do that, people will follow.

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"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

This message was edited by 42nd-delay on 2-14-05 @ 1:23 AM

[FMJeff]

and it was wartime....

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<br>
It made my heart sing.

[Death Metal Moe]

Well said, Mojopin. Kerry wasn't that liberal. Look at
Kuchinch. Kerry just fit a stereotype of wishy-washy liberals.

Democrats need to regain their identity. Democrats need to
regain their confidence. When they do that, people will follow.

------------------------------

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"42nd-delay is the only person who's making sense." - Ron, 3-12-02

This message was edited by 42nd-delay on 2-14-05 @ 1:23 AM

I may not like what Liberal Democrats stand for on the whole, but I know that America is better when things are discussed and more than one position is debated. I'm not a Rush/Hannity Kool-Aid drinker, and I disagree with some of the things the Republican's stand for on the far right, so I'm always open for other points of view.

I'd like to see a more clear message from the Democrats. They may win more positions back, and actually deserve to.

If the Democrats can give me a clear message in a political campaign, I'll consider it.

On the flip side of that, I HAVE a fairly clear message from them here in NJ and it makes me want to vomit.

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[torker]

If the Democrats can give me a clear message in a political campaign, I'll consider it.


If a candiate can give me a clear message in a political campaign, I'll consider it.

Fuck parties, I want substance.

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[Friday]

Rock On, Mojo.
That's all I have to say. Nothing to add.

Politic-talk makes me swoon.

wheeeee

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Thanks to Jersey Rich for this Classay sig!

[LiquidCourage]

At least that bum Terry McAuliffe is gone.

[Bulldogcakes]

McCauliffe screws Dean, releases Demzilla (http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/021705/demzilla.html)

This list, and access to it, was the core of McCauliffe's power. By releasing it, he's effectively neutered Dean as a force in the Party.

"I have been told about Demzilla," Dean said, adding, "I am a big fan of Terry McAuliffe. Everything we do today stands on the shoulders of his fundraising efforts."

Notice he didn't say he supports the release.
The scuttlebutt around Washington says that privately he's furious.

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