View Full Version : Europe, thy name is Cowardice.
furie
03-02-2005, 05:41 PM
Matthias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publisher Axel Springer AG,has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT, Germany's largest daily newspaper,against the timid reaction of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat.
EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE (Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, AxelSpringer, AG)
A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.
Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.
Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.
Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.
Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.
Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush.
And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement... How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and
elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.
I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.
One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolf Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time".
What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of
systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.
It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.
Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.
His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery.
And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.
In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.
On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even (
TheMojoPin
03-02-2005, 05:50 PM
Yeah, what the world needs again is an aggressive Germany.
That worked out GREAT before.
His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery.
I guess explaining and justifying that in the course of the article instead of just declaring it to be so would be "quibbling," right?
Great, so Europe has its share of yammering ultra-right hawks just like America. And...?
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << And when mama's not around/There's no telling what we'll do when we're free... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."
This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-2-05 @ 9:53 PM
Kevin
03-02-2005, 05:51 PM
That was fantastic. Bravo.
Yea Mojo Your right. But Europe is a bunch of arrogant stuck up pussies. I agree with just about everything that he said. I do not mean just barge in and stick your nose into everything. But. When you see you need to intervene some where. Like WW2, Kosovo and Rwanda. I think we owe it to our fellow man to help.
<center>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Kevin2700/Animation14.gif">
Big Thanx to Fallon.
Jimmy Fallon kissing Drew Barrymore -- on the field, on live TV -- right after the Red Sox won their first World Series in 86 years. In fact, they were shown in a closeup within 60 seconds of the final out. And every Red Sox fan is determined to pretend that this never happened, and that it didn't taint the moment even a little bit ... so it wasn't a huge deal.</center>
This message was edited by Kevin on 3-2-05 @ 9:57 PM
TheMojoPin
03-02-2005, 05:59 PM
What the fuck is so "fantastic" about this?
The guy's very clear point is that Europe, namely Germany, should plunge itself into war every chance it can. He basically says in no uncertain terms western Europe should have attacked and waged war with the USSR during the Cold War. Even WITHOUT the hindsight of history, that's flat-out fucking insane.
Why are so few of the biggest shit-talkers EVER on the frontlines of ANYTHING themselves?
"Fuck Europe! Buncha no-war pussies!"
Since when was most, or all, of Europe waging large scale extended conflicts EVER good for the world? BESIDES when they united to kick the ass of the country this pundit is egging everyone on from?
Europe with little or no war is a GOOD thing. The main reason the latter half of the 20th century is one of the more peaceful and prosperous times in all of history is because most of mainland Europe finally STOPPED picking fights every chance they could.
Kevin, I agree with stepping in when needed, but it's a poor example to bring up Rwanda, since America sat on its ass just as much as Europe did. Both continents have dozens of examples in the last few decades where they did NOTHING in the face of overwhelming suffering. What about the Sudan? If we're supposedly leading by example, we're doing a very weird and selective and limited job of it. There's no rhyme or reason to who we're invading once you look past Afghanistan.
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << And when mama's not around/There's no telling what we'll do when we're free... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."
This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-2-05 @ 10:02 PM
Kevin
03-02-2005, 06:01 PM
I basicaly agree with his idea of maybe being a little more involved. I do will not ever feel right about Germany ever showing any life towards milatary though. But in the Cases when its needed. I think people should step in.
<center>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Kevin2700/Animation14.gif">
Big Thanx to Fallon.
Jimmy Fallon kissing Drew Barrymore -- on the field, on live TV -- right after the Red Sox won their first World Series in 86 years. In fact, they were shown in a closeup within 60 seconds of the final out. And every Red Sox fan is determined to pretend that this never happened, and that it didn't taint the moment even a little bit ... so it wasn't a huge deal.</center>
This message was edited by Kevin on 3-2-05 @ 10:06 PM
TheMojoPin
03-02-2005, 06:06 PM
Are they needed right now?
In the Sudan, yes.
In North Korea, yes.
In Iran, quite possibly.
But this guy is implying that they should follow our model and essentially ignore the first two. He only has vague declarations about "Islamic forces." No specifics about where or who...he just wants a war. ANY war. If he doesn't want that, he did a pretty piss-poor job of explaining himself.
Maybe all of his logic and sense was lost in the translation.
And, just to reiterate the obvious...
DON'T TAKE FUCKING ADVICE ON WAR AND PEACE FROM THE FUCKING GERMANS. EVERYONE STAY AWAKE IN YOUR HISTORY CLASSES. IF YOU DON'T, THE ZOMBIE OF PATTON IS GOING TO RISE AND BITCH-SLAP ALL OF YOUR IGNORANT ASSES
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << And when mama's not around/There's no telling what we'll do when we're free... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."
This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-2-05 @ 10:07 PM
Kevin
03-02-2005, 06:06 PM
Kevin, I agree with stepping in when needed, but it's a poor example to bring up Rwanda, since America sat on its ass just as much as Europe did. Both continents have dozens of examples in the last few decades where they did NOTHING in the face of overwhelming suffering. What about the Sudan? If we're supposedly leading by example, we're doing a very weird and selective and limited job of it.
I was not saying we did a great job on that Mojo. I was just using them as an example of Travesties that have happened. Yea i agree we were just as dormant as Europe was. Same thing happened to My people in Kosovo and i honestly think the only reason we were helped and they weren't is skin color and location. Which is VERY despicable.
<center>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Kevin2700/Animation14.gif">
Big Thanx to Fallon.
Jimmy Fallon kissing Drew Barrymore -- on the field, on live TV -- right after the Red Sox won their first World Series in 86 years. In fact, they were shown in a closeup within 60 seconds of the final out. And every Red Sox fan is determined to pretend that this never happened, and that it didn't taint the moment even a little bit ... so it wasn't a huge deal.</center>
Kevin
03-02-2005, 06:08 PM
And, just to reiterate the obvious...
DON'T TAKE FUCKING ADVICE ON WAR AND PEACE FROM THE FUCKING GERMANS. EVERYONE STAY AWAKE IN YOUR HISTORY CLASSES. IF YOU DON'T, THE ZOMBIE OF PATTON IS GOING TO RISE AND BITCH-SLAP ALL OF YOUR IGNORANT ASSES
100% agreed there.
<center>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Kevin2700/Animation14.gif">
Big Thanx to Fallon.
Jimmy Fallon kissing Drew Barrymore -- on the field, on live TV -- right after the Red Sox won their first World Series in 86 years. In fact, they were shown in a closeup within 60 seconds of the final out. And every Red Sox fan is determined to pretend that this never happened, and that it didn't taint the moment even a little bit ... so it wasn't a huge deal.</center>
TheMojoPin
03-02-2005, 06:10 PM
Same thing happened to My people in Kosovo and i honestly think the only reason we were helped and they weren't is skin color and location. Which is VERY despicable.
It's unfortunately very possible.
I want to be as altruistc as possible....it would be great if we could liberate anyone stuck under a shitty government. But the sad, simple truth is we can't. And when we pick someone like Saddam and co. over North Korea or Rwanda or the Sudan, it doesn't make much sense. Why was Iraq somehow suffering "more?" And the writer above is insisting Europe follows America...but that doesn't fill me with confidence based on our own decisions when it comes to who we're invading.
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << And when mama's not around/There's no telling what we'll do when we're free... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."
This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-2-05 @ 10:11 PM
TheMojoPin
03-02-2005, 06:12 PM
Pat Buchanan loves this thread.
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/1154.jpg
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << And when mama's not around/There's no telling what we'll do when we're free... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."
furie
03-02-2005, 06:21 PM
you're concentrating on war and invasion, when the point of the article is the pitfalls of appeasement.
<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/furie1335/.Pictures/rfsigs/fuddopera.jpg">
<a href="http://fallingtowardsapotheosis.blogspot.com/">mental vomit</a>
Tall_James
03-02-2005, 06:26 PM
THE ZOMBIE OF PATTON IS GOING TO RISE AND BITCH-SLAP ALL OF YOUR IGNORANT ASSES
Goddamnit Mojo - how many times do I have to tell you that I'm not dead????
Mojo you magnificent bastard - I'VE GONE TO YOUR BOOKSTORE!
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=tall_james"><br>
The Cheese-Eating Bird (http://cheeseeatingbird.blogspot.com)
furie
03-02-2005, 06:31 PM
have you seen the age demographics of CBS viewers? You have to be dead!
<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/furie1335/.Pictures/rfsigs/fuddopera.jpg">
<a href="http://fallingtowardsapotheosis.blogspot.com/">mental vomit</a>
TheMojoPin
03-02-2005, 06:37 PM
you're concentrating on war and invasion, when the point of the article is the pitfalls of appeasement.
Yeah, but he's contrasting that only with the idea of Europe kicking ass and taking names. His offered "solution" is wrong.
James...you beautiful bastard.
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << And when mama's not around/There's no telling what we'll do when we're free... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."
This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 3-2-05 @ 10:37 PM
monsterone
03-02-2005, 11:05 PM
Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.
as furie pointed out, the point is appeasement. while the rest of the world sat back, the us had a hand in dismantling the largest problems since ww2.
i will agree it is right winged and hawkish, but i don't think he is suggesting that europe/ germany should run out and pick fights. maybe just support the "right" side(no pun intended).
communism= bad
fanatical muslims= bad
and he said rather than give muslims a holiday in response to rising muslim agression, help smoke out those how threaten a global community.
<center><img border=1 src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=monsterone01"><br></center>
<center>
<font color="green" size="1"> ...you have a spectacular heinie...i mean that thing is good...i want to be friends with it...</font>
</center>
<font color= "red" size="6">
For years the Europeans have wanted to take a bigger lead in military/humanitarian ops, at one point even establishing a Rapid Reaction force to be under EU control. The author should have taken them to task by saying "here's your chance".
<img src=http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg>
A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.
Red Sox Nation
curtoid
03-03-2005, 05:15 AM
There is a general reluctance to rush into conflict because the memories of what war is really all about is still alive with many - the reminders of war on their own soil is still everywhere. It doesn't mean they won't ever or don't - there is simply caution that we don't have now.
While the elections are beautiful thing, let's stop pretending that the Iraqi invasion was altruistic. If this were the case, there would be a half dozen other nations being mentioned alongside Syria and Iran when talking up other oppressive countries to hit next.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/curtoid/iris.jpg
FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS TABLE BOY
booster11373
03-03-2005, 05:22 AM
The Germany of today is very different then the Germany of 20's and 30's
Ladies and Gentlemen My unlimited Love to Y'all
TheMojoPin
03-03-2005, 06:46 AM
communism= bad
And...?
Again, his main complaint in regards to communism and Europe seems to be that Western Europe didn't engage the USSR in armed conflict.
That's nuts.
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin">
1979 << And when mama's not around/There's no telling what we'll do when we're free... >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."
Yerdaddy
03-03-2005, 07:14 AM
Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.
Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.
Self-contradictory?
Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush.
Saddam was actively committing the vast majority of these atrocities between 1987-1989, the period in which most of the Bush administration's foreign policy leaders were literally appeasing Saddam with military, intelligence and financial aid AFTER the atrocities were reported. Some European countries joined the US's appeasement of Saddam at the time, and some levied punative sanctions.
And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement... How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.
Who in Germany is suggesting the holiday? What is the proposed holiday? What evidence is there that the proposal is a "response" to the violence?
If he's the one doing the linking, then he's just anti-Muslim. He's saying that having a Muslim holiday is appeasing terrorism. In other words: Muslims=terrorists. Hitler/Jews ; this guy/Muslims. What's the fucking difference?
Where's the mention that France and Germany alternately led the international peacekeeping missions Afghanistan? (At the time that Congressional republicans were coming up with the everso dignified campaign of inventing "freedom fries" for the Congressional cafeteria.) Where's the mention that the Germans and other NATO countries are training Iraqi security forces at this moment? That Kosovo was a US/NATO operation?
Fuck the rest of this article. When are people going to learn to recognize hyperbolic ideological horseshit when they see it? Especially when it's so full of outright fallacies and lies? I think Europe's history shows that he's the one that needs to not be appeased.
The opposite of appeasement is aggression. While he's slandering Germany for it's alleged over-liance on appeasement, normal Germans, fortunately remain equally cautious of the other sin of over-reliance on aggression. If he aknoledged the risks of the second sin then he might have some credibility.
Dapfner, thy name is Zealot.
<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=bonedaddy5">
Fuck it from behind.
HelghastElite
03-03-2005, 04:16 PM
And when we pick someone like Saddam and co. over North Korea or Rwanda or the Sudan, it doesn't make much sense. Why was Iraq somehow suffering "more?"
C'mon, you know why.
1.) We need more democracies & allies in the Middle East, because that's where most of the Islamic fundamentalists, i.e. the people who want us dead, live. And
2) As much of a mess as it's been to rebuild the infrastructure of Iraq, places like North Korea & the Sudan, etc., are REAL shitholes. At least Iraq has oil revenues which it can use to rebuild itself.
If you're gonna "liberate" a country, might as well pick one that best suits your needs and actually has a reasonable chance of succeeding at democracy, rather than choose a country that maybe needs liberation more but you'd have to rebuild from the ass up.
Doomstone
03-03-2005, 05:37 PM
And when we pick someone like Saddam and co. over North Korea or Rwanda or the Sudan, it doesn't make much sense. Why was Iraq somehow suffering "more?"
C'mon, you know why.
1.) We need more democracies & allies in the Middle East, because that's where most of the Islamic fundamentalists, i.e. the people who want us dead, live. And
2) As much of a mess as it's been to rebuild the infrastructure of Iraq, places like North Korea & the Sudan, etc., are REAL shitholes. At least Iraq has oil revenues which it can use to rebuild itself.
If you're gonna "liberate" a country, might as well pick one that best suits your needs and actually has a reasonable chance of succeeding at democracy, rather than choose a country that maybe needs liberation more but you'd have to rebuild from the ass up.
I thought it was because they had stockpiles of WMDs and were working closely with al Qaeda.
<center><img src="http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0903/snoopy114025/ds2_sig.jpg">
M1 rules!
</center>
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.