Whaling....why....why...why....why [Archive]

FMJeff

06-21-2005, 01:53 PM

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/06/21/whaling.meeting.ap/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/06/21/whaling.meeting.ap/index.html</a>Bravo to the sane world for upholding the ban on commercial whaling. Give me a fucking break Japan. WHALING? There's not enough meat and fish in this world that you need to hunt a species that gives birth to one offspring at a time? Why, why are there still people on this earth so selfish they would put culinary tastes above the fucking survival of a species? There is such a wide diversity of beef, poultry and fish you would think WHALE MEAT would be something you turn to when everything else has DIED. And fuck Norway too...nobody likes you, Norway. 

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HBox

06-21-2005, 02:05 PM

Who fucking cares. We kill shit everyday. We
raise cows, pigs, chickens, salmon to kill and eat them. We catch
lobsters, shrimp, crabs, and other fish to kill and eat them. We kill
forest animals to build roads and shelter ourselves. We kill furry
animals to warm ourselves. We kill animals for sport. The average
person will in their lifetime commit a genocide against insects who
have the audacity to be anywhere near them.Why the hell do whales get a free pass? 

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jax

06-21-2005, 02:17 PM

I just watched Free Willy III with my kids today after school.  Willy and his pod are being hunted by whalers selling Orca meat on the black market.  The bad guys get caught, Willy is a mench of a whale and the end scene shows Willy's chick giving birth.

HBox

06-21-2005, 02:25 PM

I'd like to taste whale meat. I'd bet those Japs
could whip up some mighty tasty sushi with it. 

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Duke

06-21-2005, 02:39 PM

a whale would eat you and your family if it had a chance....

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JerryTaker

06-21-2005, 02:40 PM

quote:Why the hell do whales get a free pass?   ok, no free passes anmore, not for <a href="http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html">anyone</a>  EDIT:  html won't parse until I hit edit for some reason 


 
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This message was edited by JerryTaker on 6-21-05 @ 6:43 PM

ChickenHawk

06-21-2005, 02:50 PM

OOooh! Now I'm starvin'... <IMG SRC="http://www.weirdspot.com/images/uploads/ba.jpg">

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HBox

06-21-2005, 02:53 PM

ok, no free passes anmore, not for <a href="http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html">anyone</a>Hmmph, apparently my crazy friend here hasn't heard about the food chain! Yeah, he's a grade-A moron!When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University! 

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jax

06-21-2005, 02:54 PM

quote: a whale would eat you and your family if it had a chance.... Not Willy He even saved the bad guy.

JerryTaker

06-21-2005, 02:56 PM

who the hell put the sign on my back? 

 
Sweet Queen Bee, I hope it comes quickly,
I hope your thoughts don't drift to me
I'll die in here, you now are free...

TooCute

06-21-2005, 03:11 PM

<blockquote style="">quote:There's not enough meat and fish in this world that you need to hunt a species that gives birth to one offsp[/quote] Fuck, I cant eat beef now?

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FUNKMAN

06-21-2005, 03:33 PM

where's Moby Dick when you need him?<img height="248" src="http://www.led-zeppelin.com/johnbonham/emagicjb032.gif" width="172" border="0" /> you just wonder whether they can do their commercial whaling and there could still be plenty of whales left over? are the people who are against it making the excuse that it will lead to extinction or is it just an 'animal cruelty' issue

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WhistlePig

06-21-2005, 03:49 PM

Instead of killing whales and other innocent animals I say make prisons into soylent green factories. The kid that raped the dog? Cook him up! Child molesters? Toss 'em on the grill. An untapped food source that could feed millions.

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Bulldogcakes

06-21-2005, 03:57 PM

Whaling?
Didn't Rockout go Whaling last weekend? (http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/forum/75/topic/45483/page/So_I_went_to_the_FAT__Girl__club_this_weekend.htm) 

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Bulldogcakes

06-21-2005, 03:59 PM

Is "wailing" still allowed?<img width="232" height="350" border="0" src="http://www.rockstarcorp.com/jimi%20hendrix%20-%20guitar1.jpg" /> 

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torker

06-21-2005, 06:35 PM

Why?  Because it's dolphin-free!<img height="220" src="http://www.magazine.noaa.gov/stories/images/whale_meat.jpg" width="300" border="0" /> why...why...why...why<img height="119" src="http://www.careerconnectiononline.com/OasisImages/oasis_live_bw.jpg" width="158" border="0" />

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furie

06-21-2005, 06:45 PM

how else do you people expect me to light my lamps? 

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newport king

06-21-2005, 07:10 PM

Who fucking cares. We kill shit everyday. We raise cows, pigs, chickens, salmon to kill and eat them. We catch lobsters, shrimp, crabs, and other fish to kill and eat them. We kill forest animals to build roads and shelter ourselves. We kill furry animals to warm ourselves. We kill animals for sport. The average person will in their lifetime commit a genocide against insects who have the audacity to be anywhere near them. Why the hell do whales get a free pass? yeah you fucking tree hugging hippie. i'm still waiting for the day we can hunt humans.

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ChickenHawk

06-21-2005, 07:35 PM

quote:<hr color="cococo" align="left">how else do you people expect me to light my lamps? 

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Death Metal Moe

06-21-2005, 07:49 PM

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Alice S. Fuzzybutt

06-21-2005, 07:57 PM

The kid that raped the dog? Cook him up! Child molesters? Toss 'em on the grill.Soylent green?I went whale watching once. It was an amazing experience. We also got to see dolphins.I kind of wished I had gone swimming with the dolphins when I was in Mexico. 

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FMJeff

06-21-2005, 10:01 PM

quote: Who fucking cares. We kill shit everyday. We raise cows, pigs, chickens, salmon to kill and eat them. We catch lobsters, shrimp, crabs, and other fish to kill and eat them. We kill forest animals to build roads and shelter ourselves. We kill furry animals to warm ourselves. We kill animals for sport. The average person will in their lifetime commit a genocide against insects who have the audacity to be anywhere near them. Why the hell do whales get a free pass?  <img src="http://img255.echo.cx/img255/5972/mariosig8fk.jpg" border="0" /> Gee, I don't have an answer for that. Oh wait, I do. Animals processed for thier fur multiply in litters, so thier population is more relatively sustainable. Fish and shellfish multiply by egg in the thousands, so thier population is also relatively sustainable. Cows and pigs are bred in the thousands by man utilizing fertility hormones and have larger populations than whales as are chickens who lay eggs, many of them. That's why we don't "hunt" them anymore. Insects aren't going anywhere either. Whales, on the other hand, are not raised by man. They are gigantic, slow moving animals that give birth maybe once a season. Thier number in the thousands. They do not provide any nutrional value we cannot find in other sources of food. Why do they get a free pass? Because you have to draw the line somewhere and say, yeah, maybe we're not allowed to kill and eat every fucking thing that moves. Maybe we can just be happy with what we have available to us and avoid the temptation of dining on an endangered species that cannot protect itself or reproduce at a fast enough rate to replenish the losses incurred by our savage hunger for exotic fare. 

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A.J.

06-21-2005, 10:47 PM

Didn't these whaling countries see Star Trek IV?And this is the only type of whaling I support:<img height="127" src="http://www.carvel.com/images/pictures/fudgie.jpg" width="200" border="0" />

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PapaBear

06-21-2005, 11:24 PM

quote: Didn't these whaling countries see Star Trek IV?And this is the only type of whaling I support:<img height="127" src="http://www.carvel.com/images/pictures/fudgie.jpg" width="200" border="0" /><img src="http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg" border="0" /> A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.Red Sox Nation Though Mr. Carvell was the Van Gogh of ice cream cakes, I prefer these wailers. Oh... you said whalers.<img src="http://www.rounder.com/images/album/HBEA/HBEA261_Cover.jpg" border="0" />

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FMJeff

06-22-2005, 12:17 AM

sigh...i dont know which is more doomed...this thread or the whales...

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It made my heart sing.

El Mudo

06-22-2005, 03:35 AM

What's wrong with Whalers?....They're perfectly harmless... <img height="262" src="http://www.neutralzonehockey.com/whalerscan3.jpg" width="194" border="0" /> 

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El Mudo

06-22-2005, 03:36 AM

Man I forgot how great those old Whalers jersies looked....I gotta get one...

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TooCute

06-22-2005, 05:42 AM

quote:Fish and shellfish multiply by egg in the thousands, so thier population is also relatively sustainable. Cows and pigs are bred in the thousands by man utilizing fertility hormones and have larger populations than whales as are chickens who lay eggs, many of them. That's why we don't "hunt" them anymore.1. Almost all finfish fisheries right now are in really dire circumstances. They aren't being fished at anything even remotely resembling sustainable levels. You ever wonder why it seems like every few years there is a new "hip" fish? Ten - fifteen years ago you could get orange roughy anywhere, but had anyone ever heard of chilean seabass (the patagonian toothfish - renamed to be more marketable)? A lot of the ones that are doing ok in terms of population size (eg dogfish, although now that cod are so depleted that they aren't much used for fish & chips, dogfish is being substituted and their numbers are rapidly going down) are really awful in terms of either damage to the physical environment (eg caught by dredging), other endangered populations (via bycatch), or the ecosystem in general (eg farm raised salmon). As an aside, the one seafood that is really excellent to eat a lot of is farm raised shellfish. They're raised on racks/floating lines so there is no harm when they're harvested the way there might be if they were for example dredged, they are filter feeders so they are actually superbeneficial for the environment, their larvae provide food for other critters, and they are subject to extremely stringent water quality testing so you can feel pretty certain that they are safe to eat - and also, because shellfish require such clean water to be safe to harvest, there is a HUGE incentive for shellfish fisheries to support efforts to reduce pollution, boat traffic etc (all obviously good not only for shellfish fisheries but for everything in the environment) - far more so than for any finfish fisheries. 2. Cows and pigs - if we stopped eating cows and pigs, the benefit to the environment would be far, far greater than the harm that is caused by the whaling done by japan and norway. They're no more "ok" to eat than whales are; I'd argue that if you care about "nature", it is easily orders of magnitude worse to have a pork chop than it is to have a whale steak. I'm not criticizing your outrage; I applaud it, but I just think that it is really to keep all these things in perspective when making your own choices about what you eat and don't eat, and really be informed. That said, I think I'm going to have some local steamers for dinner - yum!!!!!!!!!! edit: so uhm, how do I get paragraphs to work? I had to go in and edit to put in html break tags (which showed up when I clicked edit), and then click edit it again but make no changes the second time for them to show up if that makes sense 

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This message was edited by TooCute on 6-22-05 @ 9:49 AM

Knowledged_one

06-22-2005, 05:54 AM

That's why they should mate the pig or cow with the WhaleImagine the bacon you could cut off of a pig whaleor the T-bone steak of a whalecowmmmmmmmmmmm whalecow

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TooCute

06-22-2005, 06:02 AM

btw despite being nearly a decade old at this point, this report is a fairly concise summary of the problems with fisheries. Also, to clarify my previous point, by "shellfish", I meant bivalves like clams, mussels, oysters etc. Shrimp, lobster etc. are still really bad to eat, although currently lobster populations in the north atlantic are relatively high (want to know why? it's because one of their main predators when they're young is the codfish... and the codfish fishery was pretty much fished to collapse) <a href="http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/bp434-e.htm">Fisheries summary</a>*> *> *>

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This message was edited by TooCute on 6-22-05 @ 10:03 AM

Tall_James

06-22-2005, 06:10 AM

<img height="271" src="http://www.strangehorizons.com/2001/20010806/whale2.gif" width="328" border="0" />

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WhistlePig

06-22-2005, 09:57 AM

[quote]quote:<hr color="cococo" align="left">What's wrong with Whalers?....They're perfectly harmless... <img height="262" src="http://www.neutralzonehockey.com/whalerscan3.jpg" width="194" border="0" /> 

They're extinct too!

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furie

06-22-2005, 04:21 PM

quote:sigh...i dont know which is more doomed...this thread or the whales...

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It made my heart sing. this thread. the whales at least have Shatner looking out for them.  <img width="144" height="196" border="0" src="http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeVideoArt/85/143285.jpg" /> 

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Bulldogcakes

06-22-2005, 04:27 PM

quote:yeah you fucking tree hugging hippie. i'm still waiting for the day we can hunt humans.

 If you want to hunt Humans, sign up for a tour of duty Iraq. 

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El Mudo

06-22-2005, 04:55 PM

quote: quote: What's wrong with Whalers?....They're perfectly harmless... <img height="262" src="http://www.neutralzonehockey.com/whalerscan3.jpg" width="194" border="0" /> They're extinct too! <img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/WhistlePig/WhistlePigSig2.jpg" border="0" /> You don't know me man! You don't know me man. Nah...they're not extinct...they just migrated... 

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Mike Teacher

06-22-2005, 06:42 PM

You're first I'm last You're thirst I'm asked to justify Killing our last heaven beast Don't hunt the whale In beauty vision Do we offer much If we reason with destiny, gonna lose our touch Don't kill the whale Rejoice they sing They worship their own space In a moment of love, they will die for their grace Don't kill the whale If time will allow We will judge all who came In the wake of our new age to stand for the frail Don't kill the whale CETACEI.... 

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FMJeff

06-22-2005, 10:50 PM

quote: quote: Fish and shellfish multiply by egg in the thousands, so thier population is also relatively sustainable. Cows and pigs are bred in the thousands by man utilizing fertility hormones and have larger populations than whales as are chickens who lay eggs, many of them. That's why we don't "hunt" them anymore.1. Almost all finfish fisheries right now are in really dire circumstances. They aren't being fished at anything even remotely resembling sustainable levels. You ever wonder why it seems like every few years there is a new "hip" fish? Ten - fifteen years ago you could get orange roughy anywhere, but had anyone ever heard of chilean seabass (the patagonian toothfish - renamed to be more marketable)? A lot of the ones that are doing ok in terms of population size (eg dogfish, although now that cod are so depleted that they aren't much used for fish & chips, dogfish is being substituted and their numbers are rapidly going down) are really awful in terms of either damage to the physical environment (eg caught by dredging), other endangered populations (via bycatch), or the ecosystem in general (eg farm raised salmon). As an aside, the one seafood that is really excellent to eat a lot of is farm raised shellfish. They're raised on racks/floating lines so there is no harm when they're harvested the way there might be if they were for example dredged, they are filter feeders so they are actually superbeneficial for the environment, their larvae provide food for other critters, and they are subject to extremely stringent water quality testing so you can feel pretty certain that they are safe to eat - and also, because shellfish require such clean water to be safe to harvest, there is a HUGE incentive for shellfish fisheries to support efforts to reduce pollution, boat traffic etc (all obviously good not only for shellfish fisheries but for everything in the environment) - far more so than for any finfish fisheries. 2. Cows and pigs - if we stopped eating cows and pigs, the benefit to the environment would be far, far greater than the harm that is caused by the whaling done by japan and norway. They're no more "ok" to eat than whales are; I'd argue that if you care about "nature", it is easily orders of magnitude worse to have a pork chop than it is to have a whale steak. I'm not criticizing your outrage; I applaud it, but I just think that it is really to keep all these things in perspective when making your own choices about what you eat and don't eat, and really be informed. That said, I think I'm going to have some local steamers for dinner - yum!!!!!!!!!! edit: so uhm, how do I get paragraphs to work? I had to go in and edit to put in html break tags (which showed up when I clicked edit), and then click edit it again but make no changes the second time for them to show up if that makes sense <img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/bans/toocute3.gif" border="0" /> This message was edited by TooCute on 6-22-05 @ 9:49 AM That's why I said "relatively" sustainable levels, relatively when compared to whale hunting. I'm aware their being overfished, but thier rate of replnishment is far greater than that of whales. Personally I like the idea of rotating fish stocks, like we do in agriculture...give the population a couple of years to rest and rotate between species. I guess you can blame the booming sushi industry for that. As for paragraphs, you're using safari, I assume, which is most likely causing the lack of paragraph characters being inserted.  

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A.J.

06-23-2005, 02:15 AM

How about a whale burger?<a title="How about a whale burger?" href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/06/22/whaling.odd.reut/index.html" target="_self">http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/06/22/whaling.odd.reut/index.html</a>

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TooCute

06-23-2005, 07:49 AM

<blockquote style="">quote:<blockquote style="">That's why I said "relatively" sustainable levels, relatively when compared to whale hunting. I'm aware their being overfished, but thier rate of replnishment is far greater than that of whales. Personally I like the idea of rotating fish stocks, like we do in agriculture...give the population a couple of years to rest and rotate between species. I guess you can blame the booming sushi industry for that.[/quote][/quote]There's no "relatively" about it. Sustainable means sustainable. Finfisheries are not being fished sustainably. Period. They could be. Whales, despite the fact that they have only one offspring per year, could be hunted sustainably - that level would just happen to be quite low. Whether Japan and Norway and Iceland want to hunt them at sustainable levels is another question. In all honesty, I'd be far more worried by the fact that so many cetaceans (estimated at around 300,000 per year) are being killed as bycatch of other fisheries than by the threat of whaling. As for "rotating" fisheries, if you stop and think for half a second, you will realize that that is not a particularly feasible idea. It does nothing to reduce bycatch or pressures on the physical environment, nor does it really do anything to address the fundamental problem with fisheries which is that there are a set number of fish and everyone is going to try to get as much as they can for themselves for their immediate profit, the good of the resource and everyone else be damned (cf. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons">the tragedy of the commons</a> - very relevant to fisheries). One fishery fished to near extinction? Move on to the next one! One system that may have promise is the Australian system whereby rights to certain fisheries are sold to individuals almost like stock. Generally speaking in the US for example, you get a license to fish for say striped bass. You catch your striped bass. If you happen to catch a load of bluefish (another commercially fished species) with them, since you haven't got a license for them, you toss them back. Most of them end up dead. Fantastic! Under the Australian system, if you have rights to a certain fishery and catch a bunch of other fish as bycatch, you can go to the individual who has the rights to THAT fishery and buy shares of their fishery so that you can sell your bycatch. Since the fisheries are now for all intents and purposes owned by individuals, these individuals have a very keen financial interest in making sure that their fishery remains healthy - so, making sure that other people aren't taking too many of your fish as bycatch, making sure that you're not fishing at unsustainable levels, etc. This system only went into effect I think in the late 90's so it remains to be seen whether it will work (I mean, who really knows what "sustainable" levels are? Even scientists - who have no financial stake in the issue - can't agree), but at any rate it is a huge step forward, in theory. And again, just to reemphasize - don't eat fish, eat bivalves!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This message was edited by TooCute on 6-23-05 @ 11:59 AM

LordJezo

06-23-2005, 11:25 AM

Have we learned nothing?? <img width="185" height="254" border="0" src="http://www.remotecentral.com/dvd/strek4-1.jpg" /> 

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ChickenHawk

06-23-2005, 11:46 AM

quote:<hr color="cococo" align="left">If you want to hunt Humans, sign up for a tour of duty Iraq.<hr color="cococo" align="left">
They're not killing any humans over there, just Iraqis.

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This message was edited by ChickenHawk on 6-23-05 @ 3:47 PM

Mike Teacher

06-23-2005, 12:59 PM

After two years on a reseach vessel, all I can say is: read what Too Cute said. Dead on.Sebastian Junger's book 'The Perfect Storm' goes into detail on the overfishing, specifically of the Swordfish they were after. Huge huge issue, largely ignored. Recommended reading.As for the whales, what can ya say. In one way, they are earths miracle, the largest animals, by far, to evolve on the planet. Brain much larger then ours, a humpback can weigh 50 tons, an evolving language... but the biggest mystery, maybe Too Cute has an answer, coz I don't...Why did the Whale ancestors return to the sea? Maybe some here didnt know, no worries, but the evidence is strong that whales are recent arrivals in the ocean. Something like 50-70 million years ago their ancestors were omni/carniverous mammals that walked on land, and for some reason, they migrated from land to ocean.<img src="http://members.aol.com/miketeachr/esig" border="0" />

This message was edited by Mike Teacher on 6-23-05 @ 5:00 PM

FMJeff

06-24-2005, 03:26 AM

quote: Have we learned nothing?? <img height="254" src="http://www.remotecentral.com/dvd/strek4-1.jpg" width="185" border="0" /> ------------------------------------------ I KISS YOU! <a href="http://www.78west.com/">The Message Whore - Click here for unlimited fun.</a><a> i like that joke when furie made it... </a>i like that joke when furie made it...

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FMJeff

06-24-2005, 03:29 AM

quote: quote: [quote]That's why I said "relatively" sustainable levels, relatively when compared to whale hunting. I'm aware their being overfished, but thier rate of replnishment is far greater than that of whales. Personally I like the idea of rotating fish stocks, like we do in agriculture...give the population a couple of years to rest and rotate between species. I guess you can blame the booming sushi industry for that.There's no "relatively" about it. Sustainable means sustainable. Finfisheries are not being fished sustainably. Period. They could be. Whales, despite the fact that they have only one offspring per year, could be hunted sustainably - that level would just happen to be quite low. Whether Japan and Norway and Iceland want to hunt them at sustainable levels is another question. In all honesty, I'd be far more worried by the fact that so many cetaceans (estimated at around 300,000 per year) are being killed as bycatch of other fisheries than by the threat of whaling. As for "rotating" fisheries, if you stop and think for half a second, you will realize that that is not a particularly feasible idea. It does nothing to reduce bycatch or pressures on the physical environment, nor does it really do anything to address the fundamental problem with fisheries which is that there are a set number of fish and everyone is going to try to get as much as they can for themselves for their immediate profit, the good of the resource and everyone else be damned (cf. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons">the tragedy of the commons</a> - very relevant to fisheries). One fishery fished to near extinction? Move on to the next one! One system that may have promise is the Australian system whereby rights to certain fisheries are sold to individuals almost like stock. Generally speaking in the US for example, you get a license to fish for say striped bass. You catch your striped bass. If you happen to catch a load of bluefish (another commercially fished species) with them, since you haven't got a license for them, you toss them back. Most of them end up dead. Fantastic! Under the Australian system, if you have rights to a certain fishery and catch a bunch of other fish as bycatch, you can go to the individual who has the rights to THAT fishery and buy shares of their fishery so that you can sell your bycatch. Since the fisheries are now for all intents and purposes owned by individuals, these individuals have a very keen financial interest in making sure that their fishery remains healthy - so, making sure that other people aren't taking too many of your fish as bycatch, making sure that you're not fishing at unsustainable levels, etc. This system only went into effect I think in the late 90's so it remains to be seen whether it will work (I mean, who really knows what "sustainable" levels are? Even scientists - who have no financial stake in the issue - can't agree), but at any rate it is a huge step forward, in theory. And again, just to reemphasize - don't eat fish, eat bivalves!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Eilial/rf.jpg" border="0" /> This message was edited by TooCute on 6-23-05 @ 11:59 AM I'm saying don't fish a stock to extinction. Fish one stock a year, let another rest and regroup, return to that stock. If you give them time to breed and lay eggs and grow to adults instead of just pounding them year after year, they may have a chance. The thing for me is, yes you can fish whales sustainably but the amount you could fish to not impact the population almost makes the species not worth fis

A.J.

06-24-2005, 04:10 AM

quote:* align="left"> <div /> quote: * align="left"> <div /> Have we learned nothing?? <img height="254" src="http://www.remotecentral.com/dvd/strek4-1.jpg" width="185" border="0" /> ------------------------------------------ I KISS YOU! <a href="http://www.78west.com/">The Message Whore - Click here for unlimited fun.</a><a> </a><a>* align="left"> <div />i like that joke when furie made it... </a>i like that joke when furie made it... * align="left"><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/imagestorage/fmjeff.gif" border="0" /> It made my heart sing. <div />* align="left"> <div />If only I had used a picture in my post.... <div /><img src="http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Canofsoup15/Sigs/AJinDC-Sig.jpg" border="0" /> A Skidmark/canofsoup15 production.Red Sox Nation

This message was edited by AJinDC on 6-24-05 @ 8:11 AM

TooCute

06-24-2005, 05:31 AM

<blockquote style="">quote:<blockquote style="">I'm saying don't fish a stock to extinction. Fish one stock a year, let another rest and regroup, return to that stock. If you give them time to breed and lay eggs and grow to adults instead of just pounding them year after year, they may have a chance. The thing for me is, yes you can fish whales sustainably but the amount you could fish to not impact the population almost makes the species not worth fishing at all. There's just not enough of them. As for bivalves, aren't they fished by trawling nets on the ocean floor, damaging the delicate ecosystem down there? [/quote]

[/quote] <div> </div><div>Jeff, at least pretend to read the posts you're responding to before you respond to them. I already talked about why bivalves are good (no, not harvested by trawling), and I also mentioned why "rotating" fish stocks does not address the fundamental problems with today's fisheries, nevermind that it is economically not feasible (I'll have to wait for swordfish until swordfish year!), economics being what this all boils down to. With no economic motivation, it ain't happening. It does nothing to motivate fishermen to care about bycatch, fish in ways that do not harm the physical environment (which allows all things to grow - fish do not live in a bubble, after all, unimpacted by fluctuations in populations of other animals which are impacted by damaging fishing processes), worry about size limits (which in theory are designed to maintain a healthy population age structure which is important if you actually want a population to recover from a super intense year of fishing), and just generally does nothing to make the cost to fishermen of overfishing balance the immediate gain that they get from exploiting a fishery (remember that tragedy of the commons thing). It's all well and good to be idealistic (if we just tell them about bycatch and being nice to the environment, they're bound to see in the long run that it is good for them!) but that's not the way the real world works.</div>

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LordJezo

06-24-2005, 09:49 AM

quote:quote:* quote:  
 Have we learned nothing?? 
<a> 
</a>i like that joke when furie made it... 
* />If only I had used a picture in my post.... * /> 
Oh man, so I was actually supposed to read?  

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Gidget

06-24-2005, 12:21 PM

Thank you for the posts about the bivalves TooCute. Went out and had 2 dozen little necks for lunch, yummy. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" border="0" />

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Bulldogcakes

06-24-2005, 05:35 PM

quote:Something like 50-70 million years ago their ancestors were
omni/carniverous mammals that walked on land, and for some reason, they
migrated from land to ocean. Not all of them. Some stayed behind.  http://mywits.com/images/uploads/bigfatwoman.jpg 

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DeltaPin

06-25-2005, 08:49 AM

quote: <div align="left"></div>quote: <div align="left"></div>Who fucking cares. We kill shit everyday. We raise cows, pigs, chickens, salmon to kill and eat them. We catch lobsters, shrimp, crabs, and other fish to kill and eat them. We kill forest animals to build roads and shelter ourselves. We kill furry animals to warm ourselves. We kill animals for sport. The average person will in their lifetime commit a genocide against insects who have the audacity to be anywhere near them. Why the hell do whales get a free pass? <div align="left"></div>Gee, I don't have an answer for that. Oh wait, I do. Animals processed for thier fur multiply in litters, so thier population is more relatively sustainable. Fish and shellfish multiply by egg in the thousands, so thier population is also relatively sustainable. Cows and pigs are bred in the thousands by man utilizing fertility hormones and have larger populations than whales as are chickens who lay eggs, many of them. That's why we don't "hunt" them anymore. Insects aren't going anywhere either. Whales, on the other hand, are not raised by man. They are gigantic, slow moving animals that give birth maybe once a season. Thier number in the thousands. They do not provide any nutrional value we cannot find in other sources of food. Why do they get a free pass? Because you have to draw the line somewhere and say, yeah, maybe we're not allowed to kill and eat every fucking thing that moves. Maybe we can just be happy with what we have available to us and avoid the temptation of dining on an endangered species that cannot protect itself or reproduce at a fast enough rate to replenish the losses incurred by our savage hunger for exotic fare. <div align="left" /><div align="left"></div><a href="http://takeaction.worldwildlife.org/results/seabass.asp">http://takeaction.worldwildlife.org/results/seabass.asp</a><a href="http://www.sallys-place.com/food/columns/harlow/sea_bass.htm">http://www.sallys-place.com/food/columns/harlow/sea_bass.htm</a>Satisfying our pallets, we're doing the same thing to the Chilean Sea Bass, or Patagonian Toothfish before we found out how tasty it was.  It's only taken us 15 years significantly diminish the species.

FMJeff

06-26-2005, 08:42 AM

Jeff, at least pretend to read the posts you're responding to before you respond to them. I already talked about why bivalves are good (no, not harvested by trawling),I don't see any mention to trawling in your previous posts...and yes I did read them....How does one harvest a bivalve? By hand? From my research the three main methods of harvesting bivalves are dredging, trawling and what appears to be "vaccuming" them off the ocean floor...all three of which have proven environmental impacts.The point is moot really, I don't care about clams. 

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DarkHippie

06-26-2005, 08:47 AM

They used to collect bivalves by hand, and sometimes a mexican would find a black pearl but it would only lead to misfortune and Coyotito being shot dead.

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Death Metal Moe

06-26-2005, 09:06 AM

quote:  quote: Jeff, at least pretend to read the posts you're responding to before you respond to them. I already talked about why bivalves are good (no, not harvested by trawling),  I don't see any mention to trawling in your previous posts...and yes I did read them....How does one harvest a bivalve? By hand? From my research the three main methods of harvesting bivalves are dredging, trawling and what appears to be "vaccuming" them off the ocean floor...all three of which have proven environmental impacts.The point is moot really, I don't care about clams. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/imagestorage/fmjeff.gif" border="0" /> It made my heart sing. WHY?!   Won't SOMEONE PLEASE think about the clams!!! WHY?!   Won't SOMEONE PLEASE think about the clams!!!

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Bulldogcakes

06-26-2005, 03:04 PM

THE CLAMS HAVE IT COMIN! THEY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE! FUCKIN CLAMS!!!Clams are such bastards I mock them as I eat them"HERE
YOU LITTLE BASTARD!!! I"M PUTTING TOMATO SAUCE ON YOUR BROTHER! Mmmmmmm
your sister tastes goooood. YOU'RE NEXT YOU LITTLE SCUMBAG!!!" 

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Death Metal Moe

06-26-2005, 03:06 PM

quote: THE CLAMS HAVE IT COMIN! THEY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE! FUCKIN CLAMS!!!<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Kevin2700/cakescopy.jpg" border="0" /> Here's what they have coming to them<img height="350" src="http://www.celebratemaryland.com/ImgUpload/P_459050_1177070.JPG" width="268" border="0" />

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FUNKMAN

06-26-2005, 03:59 PM

Bulldogcakes

06-26-2005, 04:06 PM

quote:Satisfying
our pallets 

<img width="331" height="330" border="0" src="http://members.freemail.absa.co.za/cmahncke/Loads%20of%20pallets.jpg" />  ? 

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Do Siamese twins have to file seperate tax returns? Or do they file jointly?

DeltaPin

06-26-2005, 04:21 PM

quote:  quote: Satisfying our pallets <img height="330" src="http://members.freemail.absa.co.za/cmahncke/Loads%20of%20pallets.jpg" width="331" border="0" />  ? <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Kevin2700/cakescopy.jpg" border="0" /> <a href="http://bulldogcakes.tripod.com/index.html" target="blank">My brand spankin new site Bully Baby</a> Do Siamese twins have to file seperate tax returns? Or do they file jointly? Palates.Better.

TooCute

06-26-2005, 05:31 PM

I don't see any mention to trawling in your previous posts...and yes I did read them....How does one harvest a bivalve? By hand? From my research the three main methods of harvesting bivalves are dredging, trawling and what appears to be "vaccuming" them off the ocean floor...all three of which have proven environmental impacts.The point is moot really, I don't care about clams. 

<hr color="cococo" align="left"> Most of the bivalves that are available locally are either raised in floating pens/racks/lines like these (mussels, some oysters) <img src="http://www.bluemussel.com.au/images/core/farm.jpg"> or are harvested by hand (many of the local little necks, steamers etc.). You can't really claim to care about whales and say you don't care about bivalves unless you are playing ostrich with your head in the sand, pretending that whales live in a little bubble or being massively ignorant.

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This message was edited by TooCute on 6-26-05 @ 9:33 PM

Bulldogcakes

06-26-2005, 06:07 PM

<img width="300" height="216" border="0" src="http://www.thetoque.com/030408/pics/beardedclam.jpg" /> "Bearded
clams are the reason I like to eat out so much!" 


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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 6-26-05 @ 10:08 PM