The Subscriber War

[Carter]

Ok so XM has more subscribers... But a couple friends of mine who work in promotion for major record labels told me that the XM numbers are flawed because XM counts a subscriber as anyone who pays for the service BUT ALSO counts anyone who rents a car or stays in a hotel room with XM in it as well.  Is this seriously flawed or is it just me?  Has anyone else heard this?

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[Death Metal Moe]

<p>If that's true, then it's kinda weak.&nbsp; </p><p>On a side note, am I the only one who doesn't care if XM is on top?&nbsp; As long as they've got Ron and Fez and stay in business, I could personally care less if Sirius catches up or gets more subscribers.</p><p>I mean I would love to see Howard fail because his show is feces, but in the end as long as XM keeps Ron and Fez, I could care less who's lying about the numbers.</p>

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[BeerBandit]

<font size="3">No, I don't think that this method is flawed, simply because in the end these numbers are primarily used for comparison.&nbsp; How are they doing compared to the competition.&nbsp; The only competition XM has is Sirius, and I guarantee you that Sirius uses the same method to calculate Membership.&nbsp; </font>

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[walking joint]

<p>I would love to see Howard fail</p><p>this is why i actually care.&nbsp; i want him to fail almost more then i want O&amp;A or RonFez to do well.&nbsp;</p><p>if that is the way they calculate subscribers and SIRIUS does it the same way I have no problem with it.&nbsp; But on its own it is a really flawed method and I kind of doubt thats how its done.&nbsp; If a major hotel has XM in all of its rooms the number os subscribers I would think would be much higher.&nbsp; and what if two people stay in a room...or yet 4.&nbsp; do they all count.&nbsp; the number would be much more then the 4 or 5 million currently counted.&nbsp; </p>

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[UnknownPD]

<font size="2">Since..siruis...is the only competition as long as they use the same methods I can't see it making much of a difference.&nbsp;XM is a publicy traded company I would imagine there are no secrets as to how it tallys its subscribers....</font>

[TheMojoPin]

Anyone who actually ROOTS for a monopoly with any kind of business or technically needs to SERIOUSLY re-evaluate their priorities.

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[JerseyRich]

<p>Sirius still has better music channels and programming on those channels.</p><p>&nbsp;I am enjoying XM's Online Radio more than Sirius' though. Maybe because I hear old friends through it.<br />
</p>

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[JustJon]

Is it really considered flawed to count the number of active xm
units?&nbsp; If a hotel has a unit in every hotel, they are paying for
a subscription.&nbsp; Same with each of those rental cars.<br />

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[Bama]

I always listen to XM on airplanes but I don't own XM yet. They need to count me. <br />


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<font color=black>This message was edited by Bama on 8-24-05 @ 6:38 PM</font>

[mikeyboy]

I'm sure every XM unit installed in an airplane is counted.

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[Bama]

Good. I demand that I be counted!<br />


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[Tenbatsuzen]

<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font>Ok so XM has more subscribers... But a couple friends of mine who work in promotion for major record labels told me that the XM numbers are flawed because XM counts a subscriber as anyone who pays for the service BUT ALSO counts anyone who rents a car or stays in a hotel room with XM in it as well.&nbsp; Is this seriously flawed or is it just me?&nbsp; Has anyone else heard this? <p><br />XM lists the exact subscriber count in every quarterly report.&nbsp; If they are flawed, the SEC and FTC would be all over their asses.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>In their latest 10-Q filing with the SEC:</p><p>650K new subs for the past quarter.</p><p>3.8 million in OEM, Aftermarket, and other subscribers (see: Online only)</p><p>565K subs in &quot;promotional periods&quot; - as in people who get new cars with 3-6 months free XM.</p><p>aaaaand...</p><p><strong>45,000 XM Activated Vehicles with rental car companies.</strong></p><p>So in other words, it's only 1% of the total XM subscriber base.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

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[Carter]

its not they count each unit installed in a hotel room, each time a person checks in to the room they count it as a subscriber.&nbsp; I've heard this from many people who do radio promotion.&nbsp; I think there has to be some validity to it.

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[FUNKMAN]

the way most companies fudge their numbers they are just doing the norm...

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[UnknownPD]

<p><font size="1">I've heard this from many people who do radio promotion.</font></p><p>Urban myth?</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font>its not they count each unit installed in a hotel room, each time a person checks in to the room they count it as a subscriber.&nbsp; I've heard this from many people who do radio promotion.&nbsp; I think there has to be some validity to it. <p><br />Carter, speaking from experience, one of the many gifts that people who work in radio promotion have is a sense of exagerration.</p><p>I think you MIGHT be confusing the term &quot;listener&quot; with &quot;subscriber&quot;.&nbsp; In the XM lexicon, there's a MAJOR difference.</p><p>A &quot;subscriber&quot; is an activated radio unit that is getting the entire XM platform.&nbsp; A &quot;listener&quot; is a person who gets an impression or actively listens to the subscribed radio.</p><p>If XM counted every single person who listened as a subscriber, then their revenue numbers would be WAY off, and XM's sub numbers would be a lot higher.&nbsp; Plus, because of the SEC filings,&nbsp;they have to have data to back up every single person who listened to that radio, and they can't do that.&nbsp; They CAN document every single <em><strong>subscribed</strong></em> XM radio, because everyone has to contact XM to activate or deactivate it.&nbsp; And since subscriptions are the #1 revenue stream for XM by leaps and bounds over advertising, those numbers HAVE to be accurate.</p><p>Listenership?&nbsp; Not so much.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

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[Evilpete]

sirius has a shady way of counting as well, they count cars with their
system installed in the car (activated or not), even if it's just
sitting on the lot collecting dust<br />


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[sssheapaul]

<p><font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font></p>A &quot;subscriber&quot; is an activated radio unit that is getting the entire XM platform.&nbsp; A&nbsp; &quot;listener&quot; is a person who gets an impression or actively listens to the subscribed radio <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You are corrrrect sir! And, if i remember correctly, xm credits each subscription with somewhere between 3-4 &quot;LISTENERS&quot; which would put them @ about 15 mil listeners....BUT again, different from subscribers</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

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[Carter]

<blockquote style=""><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9px; ">quote:</font><p>Carter, speaking from experience, one of the many gifts that people who work in radio promotion have is a sense of exagerration.</p><p>I think you MIGHT be confusing the term &quot;listener&quot; with &quot;subscriber&quot;.&nbsp; In the XM lexicon, there's a MAJOR difference.</p><p>A &quot;subscriber&quot; is an activated radio unit that is getting the entire XM platform.&nbsp; A &quot;listener&quot; is a person who gets an impression or actively listens to the subscribed radio.</p><p>If XM counted every single person who listened as a subscriber, then their revenue numbers would be WAY off, and XM's sub numbers would be a lot higher.&nbsp; Plus, because of the SEC filings,&nbsp;they have to have data to back up every single person who listened to that radio, and they can't do that.&nbsp; They CAN document every single <em><strong>subscribed</strong></em> XM radio, because everyone has to contact XM to activate or deactivate it.&nbsp; And since subscriptions are the #1 revenue stream for XM by leaps and bounds over advertising, those numbers HAVE to be accurate.</p><p>Listenership?&nbsp; Not so much.</p>[/quote]<br />These aren't just people i spoke with, they're my good friends who i worked with when i was working at major record labels.&nbsp; What is your experience with my friends in radio promotion?&nbsp; *narf*&nbsp; hey how much do these posting tools suck ass?

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[Death Metal Moe]

<p><font size="1">These aren't just people i spoke with, they're my good friends who i worked with when i was working at major record labels.&nbsp; What is your experience with my friends in radio promotion?&nbsp; *narf*&nbsp; hey how much do these posting tools suck ass? </font></p><p>Oh GOD Carter, don't question Tenbat's UNLIMITED KNOWLEDGE of Radio.</p><p>And these fucking tools DO suck ass.&nbsp; Can't you do anything about it for Christ sake??&nbsp; </p><p>How about JUST the backspacing problem?&nbsp; JUST THAT.&nbsp; FUCKING START SOMEWHERE.</p>

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[Death Metal Moe]

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[Death Metal Moe]

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[Tenbatsuzen]

<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font>These aren't just people i spoke with, they're my good friends who i worked with when i was working at major record labels.&nbsp; What is your experience with my friends in radio promotion?&nbsp; <p>I have no experience with your friends.&nbsp; I do, however, have experience with record promotion.&nbsp; I have experience with label promotion.&nbsp; I have experience with radio promotion.&nbsp; And my last company dealt with XM's programmers on a direct basis.&nbsp; So I have a foundation for my experience outside of your Nortonesque &quot;My friends told me that...&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Secondly, I already said that XM can't fudge the subscriber numbers because they have to be truthful in reporting those numbers to investors - being that they are a public company.&nbsp; If they aren't, they are looking at MASSIVE problems from the SEC and FTC.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If they said they have 10 million subscribers, and the money going in doesn't match the money that 10 million subscribers should be putting into the company (discounts and promotions aside) then they have a major major problem on their hands.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

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