Bush expected to nominate 2nd Supreme Court Judge [Archive]

Doctor Manhattan

10-03-2005, 04:07 AM

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/03/scotus.preview/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/03/scotus.preview/index.html</a><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171050,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171050,00.html</a><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4304684.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4304684.stm</a>She's never been a judge. Shouldn't you have to be a judge before becoming one of the most powerful judges in the country? Doesn't W know any right leaning female judges?<a href="http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=202" target="_blank"><img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=skw" border="0" /></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 10-3-05 @ 8:09 AM

HBox

10-03-2005, 04:56 AM

Not being qualified is not a problem in this
administration. Really, we should all know that by now. 

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booster11373

10-03-2005, 05:10 AM

Here's a thought.Team Bush knows she's going to get picked apart and is not going to get confirmed and have a much more right wing canidate in the wings waiting, Knowing that the American public won't stand to see another nominee chewed up on national TV and will get a pass in the name of non-partisianship.

JUST SAY NO.....to pimping

El Mudo

10-03-2005, 06:09 AM

She's never been a judge. Shouldn't you have to be a judge before becoming one of the most powerful judges in the country?   He also named other justices who had been appointed to the Supreme Court without previous experience on the bench, including the late Chief Justice Rehnquist.  During the press conference Monday, Bush noted that neither the late Chief Justice William Rehnquist nor did 35 other Supreme Court nominees had judicial experience before being named to the country's highest court. He also reminded the country that both Republicans and Democrats have encouraged a nominee that doesn't necessarily have a judicial background

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booster11373

10-03-2005, 06:14 AM

I think I read that you dont need to be a Lawyer or a Judge to be on the Supreme Court. Which in a perfect world would be a good thing.

JUST SAY NO.....to pimping

Tall_James

10-03-2005, 06:40 AM

Here's a thought. Team Bush knows she's going to get picked apart and is not going to get confirmed and have a much more right wing canidate in the wings waiting, Knowing that the American public won't stand to see another nominee chewed up on national TV and will get a pass in the name of non-partisianship.DING DING DING!  WE HAVE A WINNER!This is EXACTLY what is going on.  This woman is a Bush loyalist who would be more than willing to lay down on the railroad tracks for her boss.  She'll get something down the line for taking one for the team in order to get someone through easily.

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Doctor Manhattan

10-03-2005, 06:42 AM

quote: During the press conference Monday, Bush noted that neither the late Chief Justice William Rehnquist nor did 35 other Supreme Court nominees had judicial experience before being named to the country's highest court. He also reminded the country that both Republicans and Democrats have encouraged a nominee that doesn't necessarily have a judicial background I did not realize this.  So what do you need to qualify to be appointed Supreme Court Justice?<a href="http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=202" target="_blank"><img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=skw" border="0" /></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 10-3-05 @ 10:43 AM

Tall_James

10-03-2005, 07:04 AM

From the MSN Encarta online encyclopedia:The Constitution does not specify formal qualifications for membership on the Supreme Court. From the beginning, though, justices have all been lawyers, and most pursued legal and political careers before serving on the Court. Many justices served as members of Congress, governors, or members of the Cabinet. One president, <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/encyclopedia_761555013/William_Howard_Taft.html">William Howard Taft</a>, was later appointed chief justice. Some justices came to the Court from private law practice, and others were appointed from positions as law professors. Many justices appointed in the second half of the 20th century had experience in the United States courts of appeal and other lower courts. Only one justice, <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/encyclopedia_761576937/Charles_Evans_Hughes.html">Charles Evans Hughes</a>, served on the Court twice. President Taft appointed Hughes, then governor of New York, to the Court in 1910. Hughes gave up his Court seat in 1916 to run for president, but he lost in a close race against <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/encyclopedia_761557212/Woodrow_Wilson.html">Woodrow Wilson</a>. In 1930 President <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/encyclopedia_761570424/Herbert_Hoover.html">Herbert Hoover</a> returned Hughes to the Court as chief justice.

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El Mudo

10-03-2005, 07:48 AM

And Earl Warren was a stripper...

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furie

10-03-2005, 08:03 AM

quote:Here's a thought.Team
Bush knows she's going to get picked apart and is not going to get
confirmed and have a much more right wing canidate in the wings
waiting, Knowing that the American public won't stand to see another
nominee chewed up on national TV and will get a pass in the name of
non-partisianship.

JUST SAY NO.....to pimping i was thinking the same thing 

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Yosammity

10-03-2005, 08:11 AM

I believe she was chosen because she's fairly moderate and has been a Democrat in the past.  Also, because she hasn't been a judge, there's no judicial record to scrutinize.  Bush is hoping to avoid a lengthy review -- she's someone that's hard (not easy) to turn down after the confirmation hearings.The group that's up in arms about her nomination right now is the Conservatives.

<html>
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Bulldogcakes

10-03-2005, 04:43 PM

quote:Here's a thought.Team
Bush knows she's going to get picked apart and is not going to get
confirmed and have a much more right wing canidate in the wings
waiting, Knowing that the American public won't stand to see another
nominee chewed up on national TV and will get a pass in the name of
non-partisianship. A
little too much strateg-ery for me, but listening to his base react to
this pick today you'd think they'd lead the charge AGAINST her. And
their favorite quote is "Harry Ried likes her and Chuck Shumer could
barely wipe the smile off his face" I must have heard it 50 times
today. Another favorite quote "SHE DONATED $$ TO AL GORE IN 1988!!!" I
think its just simple, naked CRONYISM at its worst. The Bush's have
always been very loyal to their "Guys" and Bush wants to have a justice
who is a long standing friend that he can call on long after he's out
of office. Roberts is a "Washington guy". She's a Bush crony. One who
appears to be very accustomed to deferring to his wishes, judging by
their press conference. This pick is for GW to put in his lil' back
pocket, and still have some pull in Washington past 2008. Which serves
the public soooo well. Disgusting. I'll
never forget Bush Sr. being interviewed after he was out of office
talking about how pissed he still was at Greenspan for not lowering
interest rates for his 1992 election campaign. Anyone with a BASIC
knowledge of the Fed (Which apparently the leader of the Free World at
the time didn't have) knows that the Fed is there to target inflation
and watch the economy. Printing $ for elections is the kind of shit
that goes on in banana republics. What a great public servant. 
 The
Bushes are not, and never were Conservatives.
Look at the deficits BOTH of them have run up. Highest in history,
Father and Son. That's no accident, thats a pattern. THey dont believe
in less Government, they just want to control it so they can spread it
around to their buddies. 


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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 10-3-05 @ 10:48 PM

Bulldogcakes

10-03-2005, 06:19 PM

Does anyone think she would have had any shot at this job if not for her relationship w/Bush?Her qualifications are non existant. If she's qualified, so are a million others.  

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HBox

10-03-2005, 06:24 PM

I heard some talk today that some of the
conservatives in the Senate where trying to see if they had what it
takes to get a filibuster to block her. If true, that's irony
squared. 

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Bulldogcakes

10-06-2005, 05:53 PM

Let the mutiny begin! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/05/AR2005100502200_pf.html) 
The conservative uprising against President Bush escalated yesterday
as Republican activists angry over his nomination of White House
counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court confronted the president's
envoys during a pair of tense closed-door meetings.
A day after
Bush publicly beseeched skeptical supporters to trust his judgment on
Miers, a succession of prominent conservative leaders told his
representatives that they did not. Over the course of several hours of
sometimes testy exchanges, the dissenters complained that Miers was an
unknown quantity with a thin r‚sum‚ and that her selection -- Bush
called her "the best person I could find" -- was a betrayal of years of
struggle to move the court to the right.

 
 
I know I seem to spend alot of time defending this guy, but I'll
laugh just as hard as anyone when/if this pick crashes and burns. At
the end of the day, most politicians are backstabbing scumbags, and
deserve to be mocked.  

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Bulldogcakes

10-06-2005, 05:54 PM

"Is she the most qualified person? Clearly, the answer to that is 'no,'
" Trent Lott said on MSNBC's "Hardball," contradicting Bush's assertion.
"There are a lot more people -- men, women and minorities -- that are
more qualified, in my opinion, by their experience than she is.

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Bulldogcakes

10-09-2005, 12:06 PM

Democrats
defend Bush court pick (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/08/AR2005100800620_pf.html)
"All the trashing is coming from the right wing of the Republican
Party," Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, said in a conference call with
reporters. "I really think it's despicable what they're doing."
Sen. Barbara A. Mikulski, D-Md., accused critics of Miers' nomination of being "incredibly sexist."
"They're
saying a woman who was one of the first to head up a major law firm
with over 400 lawyers doesn't have intellectual heft," Mikulski said.
"I find this a double standard."
More unusual is the outright
praise from some Democrats for the person who would replace retiring
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, a critical moderate vote on abortion,
affirmative action and other close rulings.
"I like what I hear so far," said Sen. Mark Pryor, D-Ark.
 
 
Somehow I'd guess this doesn't make his right wing base feel any better. 
And to the good folks on the Left, when a party is
cannibalizing  itself, dont jump in the middle and take sides. Bad
idea. Sit back, crack open a beer and have a few laughs. 


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"A dog recently saved his owner's life, because he had been trained to dial 911. Unfortunately, operators had trouble finding the address 'woof, woof.'"-Norm MacDonald

Bulldogcakes

10-13-2005, 04:45 PM

Explain this one to your base George (http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4hmn.htm)  The DRUDGE REPORT can now reveal that not only
did Harriet Miers testify that she would not join the “politically
charged” Federalist Society -- she testified that she had joined a
liberal organization – the Democratic Progressive Voters League. 
<a href="http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/DD/wed1.html">[According
to the Handbook of Texas Online
[http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/DD/wed1.html], the
Democratic Progressive Voters League is a Dallas political organization
closely associated with the Democratic Party.] </a> Miers was
also asked whether she considered “the NAACP [to be] in the category of
organizations” that she considered to be “politically charged.”
 
Her answer: “No, I don’t .”  You gotta love it.  

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Doctor Manhattan

10-14-2005, 10:09 AM

And to the good folks on the Left, when a party is cannibalizing  itself, dont jump in the middle and take sides. Bad idea. Sit back, crack open a beer and have a few laughs. The party needs a lot of help, look at their last Presidential Canidate. The Right has a retarded liar in the Oval Office and they couldn't win. I like when the Right sees W's problems.

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high fly

10-20-2005, 04:21 PM

When Bush nominated "Copsand" Roberts, the issue of Robert's faith was a topic no one was supposed to question or discuss, and it was not to be looked at as in any way having anything to do with how he would decide cases, but when it comes to the nomination of Harriet "OhMeOh" Meirs, HER faith is apparently the determining factor in how she is to be evaluated.

" ...and they ask me why I drink"

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Bulldogcakes

10-26-2005, 03:56 PM

<h1>
Senators in G.O.P. Voice New Doubt on Court Choice</h1>
 (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/politics/26confirm.html?ei=5094&en=ce6e957cc2d6544c&hp=&ex= 1130299200&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print)

"I am uneasy about where we are," said Senator Jeff Sessions, an <a title="More news and information about Alabama." href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/alabama/index.html?inline=nyt-geo">Alabama</a>
Republican on the Judiciary Committee who had so far expressed only
support for the president's choice. "Some conservative people are
concerned. That is pretty obvious." 

Senator John Thune, Republican of <a title="More news and information about South Dakota." href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/southdakota/index.html?inline=nyt-geo">South Dakota</a>, called Republican sentiment toward Ms. Miers's nomination "a question mark." 

"There is an awful lot of Republican senators who are saying we are going to wait and see," he said.

Senator Norm Coleman, a <a title="More news and information about Minnesota." href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/minnesota/index.html?inline=nyt-geo">Minnesota</a>
Republican in the political middle of his party, said he needed "to get
a better feel for her intellectual capacity and judicial philosophy,
core competence issues." 

"I certainly go into this with concerns," Mr. Coleman said.

Coming less than two weeks before confirmation hearings, the public
questioning by Republican senators may be an ominous sign. Of the 10
Republicans on the 18-member Judiciary Committee, Mr. Sessions joins
two others who have publicly raised concerns: Senator Sam Brownback of <a title="More news and information about Kansas." href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/kansas/index.html?inline=nyt-geo">Kansas</a> has questioned her legal views on abortion rights, and the committee chairman, Senator Arlen Specter of <a title="More news and information about Pennsylvania." href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/pennsylvania/index.html?inline=nyt-geo">Pennsylvania</a>, has said Ms. Miers could benefit from a "crash course in constitutional law."
 
 
And these are the REPUBLICANS. What a disaster.  

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Doctor Manhattan

10-27-2005, 05:01 AM

quote: <img height="210" src="http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/POLITICS/10/27/miers.nominations/top.miers.03thurs.ap.jpg" width="280" border="0" />"Screw you guys, I'm goin' home!"<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/27/miers.nominations/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/27/miers.nominations/index.html</a><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9837151/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9837151/</a><a href="http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=202" target="_blank"><img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=skw" border="0" /></a>

This message was edited by SKW on 10-27-05 @ 9:51 AM

booster11373

10-27-2005, 06:34 AM

God knows what kind of deep red yahoo he's going to put up now in order to satisfy his consevitive supporters

Nazi cows are on the loose

booster11373

10-27-2005, 09:34 AM

here's the text of her letterDear Mr President, I write to withdraw as a nominee to serve as an Associate Justice on the Supreme Court of the United States. I have been greatly honoured and humbled by the confidence that you have shown in me, and have appreciated immensely your support and the support of many others. However, I am concerned that the confirmation process presents a burden for the White House and our staff that is not in the best interest of the country. As you know, members of the Senate have indicated their intention to seek documents about my service in the White House in order to judge whether to support me. I have been informed repeatedly that in lieu of records, I would be expected to testify about my service in the White House to demonstrate my experience and judicial philosophy. While I believe that my lengthy career provides sufficient evidence for consideration of my nomination, I am convinced the efforts to obtain Executive Branch materials and information will continue. As I stated in my acceptance remarks in the Oval Office, the strength and independence of our three branches of government are critical to the continued success of this great Nation. Repeatedly in the course of the process of confirmation for nominees for other positions, I have steadfastly maintained that the independence of the Executive Branch be preserved and its confidential documents and information not be released to further a confirmation process. I feel compelled to adhere to this position, especially related to my own nomination. Protection of the prerogatives of the Executive Branch and continued pursuit of my confirmation are in tension. I have decided that seeking my confirmation should yield. I share your commitment to appointing judges with a conservative judicial philosophy, and I look forward to continuing to support your efforts to provide the American people judges who will interpret the law, not make it. I am most grateful for the opportunity to have served your Administration and this country.  Most respectfully, Harriet Ellan Miers complete bullshitt 

Nazi cows are on the loose

Bulldogcakes

10-27-2005, 01:26 PM

I heard Senate Majority leader Bill Frist visited the White House last
night, and told Bush the Senate vote situation. A few hours later
Harriet handed in her resignation letter. 

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Se7en

10-27-2005, 08:30 PM

The nomination was an unmitigated disaster, and I'm glad it's finally over.  Nothing but an embarassment.  Dozens of qualified individuals that he could have picked, ideologically right, left, or in the center, and he does soul searching and comes up with.......his buddy.  Ridiculous.  That's not really what pissed me off with this nomination, so much as it was the reports that he was "disappointed" that his conservative base didn't support Miers.  Wait, HE is disappointed?  Perhaps he can empathize with how his base feels.  He provides an extraordinary nomination in John Roberts, and follows that up with his personal fucking lawyer, a woman who's never held a judicial position (which isn't a requirement, okay), and who furthermore doesn't even have any sort of clear judicial philosophy, all while simultaneousl ignoring dozens of brilliant, and qualified judges who could fill O'Connor's spot easily.What Bush needs to do now is nominate a solid conservative.  One who isn't necessarily too far to the right (although to the Democrats, just about ANYONE he nominates will be painted with that brush), so as to have some crossover appeal.And then he should take that nominee, and use them to beat the Democrats bloody and senseless.If he actually picks a fight, he will win.  And all of this embarassment with Miers can be neutralized b a bloody, but decisive victory against the Democrats.  He can absolutel do this, so long as he's willing to put forth the effort.

HBox

10-27-2005, 09:11 PM

Bush is stubborn and pissed off. I bet he'll pick Alberto Gonzalez just to not give in. 

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Se7en

10-27-2005, 09:34 PM

Despite the rap he gets, Bush really isn't dumb.  I doubt he'd make the same mistake twice, because he'd run into the same problems with his base if he picked Gonzalez.  Many conservatives didn't like Miers because they thought she MIGHT not be conservative enough.  With Gonzalez, many conservatives believe with absolute certain that he wouldn't be.  His stance on abortion alone would be enough.So I don't THINK he'd pick Gonzalez.  He needs to pick someone more solidly conservative.  Like I said, if he chooses to pick a fight with the Democrats with this new nomination, he can win.  Whether he wants the battle, with everything else going on, is another story.

PapaBear

10-27-2005, 09:40 PM

Given the drunk driving pasts of both Bush and Cheney, maybe he should pick the Virginia judge, who ruled that BAC can't be used to determine if a driver is drunk.

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A.J.

10-27-2005, 10:26 PM

quote: Given the drunk driving pasts of both Bush and Cheney, maybe he should pick the Virginia judge, who ruled that BAC can't be used to determine if a driver is drunk. <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/ingacopy.jpg" border="0" />1 people are so scared of 9 peopleWHATSOEVER... Nah.  I need him or her in Virginia....just in case.

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Bulldogcakes

10-28-2005, 03:04 AM

quote:Bush is stubborn and pissed off. I bet he'll pick Alberto Gonzalez just to not give in. 
 No, he'd have the
same problems with that selection. Too close a personal friend, not
conservative enough. The only plus is he's Hispanic, which his base
doesn't give a shit about, or may even count as a negative.  I'd
expect to see a highly qualified, solidly idealogically conservative
candidate. Roberts #2. Which the Dems will fight like hell, but
probably lose. I think the end result of all this will be a more
conservative court, which will be good on some issues (property
rights/intrusive Government) and bad on others (Roe's done). Thats
what you Dems get for running shitty candidates for 4 of the past 5
elections. Try nominating a moderate (like Biden) next time, someone I
could vote for. 


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Doctor Manhattan

10-28-2005, 03:33 AM

quote: Despite the rap he gets, Bush really isn't dumb.  I doubt he'd make the same mistake twice... That is the funniest post I've ever seen on any web site EVER!<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/laugh.gif" border="0" /> 

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Se7en

10-28-2005, 06:04 AM

Yes, I know, the hip thing to do is to make fun of Bush's intelligence.  It's not true, of course, he isn't an unintelligent man, but let's keep up the joke, I guess, because "Bush iz stoopid!!!1111" jokes never get tired, I suppose.  In some circles.

Furtherman

10-28-2005, 07:20 AM

quote: Despite the rap he gets, Bush really isn't dumb.  <img height="20" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" width="21" border="0" /> You must be from the "my party can do no wrong" party.If he wasn't.. let's say... not up to par in common sense, then the rap he has would be undeserved, right?Can we even put together a list of smart things he has done for our country?  There is no doubt a few, because even a broken clock is right twice a day.  But for the most part, yea, he deserves that rap, and history will always remember it.And I'm saying that because it is the hip thing to do, it's said matter of factly.  An obvious matter of fact.<img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7" border="0" />

This message was edited by Furtherman on 10-28-05 @ 11:21 AM

HBox

10-28-2005, 07:25 AM

No, he'd have the same
problems with that selection. Too close a personal friend, not
conservative enough. The only plus is he's Hispanic, which his base
doesn't give a shit about, or may even count as a negative.Yeah, that was my point.

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Doctor Manhattan

10-28-2005, 07:53 AM

quote: Yes, I know, the hip thing to do is to make fun of Bush's intelligence.  It's not true, of course, he isn't an unintelligent man, but let's keep up the joke, I guess, because "Bush iz stoopid!!!1111" jokes never get tired, I suppose.  In some circles.Well, I'm very conservative, so I don't have a politcal reason to bash Bush. I bash him because he's a moron. I don't know him personally so I will say this:If Bush is an intelligent man, he's doing a great job hiding it from the American Public. He does not come accross as intelligent in anyway.I don't think it's a funny thing that he's so stupid, I think it's sad. What I did find funny was your post.If Bush was smart, where is the proof? His grades sucked, he can't speak, he can't run a buisness, he couldn't run that ball team.

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TheMojoPin

10-28-2005, 08:06 AM

I don't know why Gonzalez was even brought up in the first place.  It's about a 99.9% certainty that the new justice will be a woman.

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Bulldogcakes

10-28-2005, 05:04 PM

Like who? Are you hearing any names?The only woman who comes to mind right off the bat is Janis Rogers Brown. Who's black and very conservative
from what I hear. They've passed her over a few times already, I assume
they had a good reason. But then again, I shouldn't assume they have
good reasons for anything after this fuster cluck.   

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Bulldogcakes

10-28-2005, 05:06 PM

quote:I
don't know why Gonzalez was even brought up in the first place. It's
about a 99.9% certainty that the new justice will be a woman.
 
 WAIT A MINUTE! I'VE GOT IT!! She's Conservative, she's a woman    <img width="316" height="238" border="0" src="http://photos1.blogger.com/img/101/2476/640/FNC%20Ann%20Coulter%2001.jpg" /> Supreme Court Justice Ann Coulter 

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HBox

10-28-2005, 05:42 PM

Well, if it's a woman I think it would more likely
be Edith Clement, who was rumored to be the pick before Roberts was
announced. Se7en may feel differently, but I doubt Bush can push
through someone like Janice Rogers Brown right now. 

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Se7en

10-28-2005, 06:28 PM

I don't think he'll nominate Brown, though.  I actually agree that we'd more likely get someone like Clement.And you haven't welcomed me back yet, hippie.  Where's the love?

HBox

10-28-2005, 06:56 PM

I would but you came back with gun's blazing,
firing in all directions. I figured we'd just get down to brass tacks.
Huddla Huddla, elbow to the ribs, elbow to the ribs! 

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Bulldogcakes

10-28-2005, 07:12 PM

SUPREME COURT JUSTICE ANN COULTER!! DAMMITT!!! 

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Recyclerz

10-29-2005, 04:42 AM

[QUOTE] 1.Despite the rap he gets, Bush really isn't dumb. 2.  I doubt he'd make the same mistake twice, because he'd run into the same problems with his base if he picked Gonzalez.  Many conservatives didn't like Miers because they thought she MIGHT not be conservative enough.  With Gonzalez, many conservatives believe with absolute certain that he wouldn't be.  His stance on abortion alone would be enough.  [QUOTE]Sorry to break ranks with my commie symp brethern on this one but Se7en is right in his analysis on both points here.  On point 2 I'm sure he and his team will pick someone that allows him to put together enough of the right wing in the Senate so that politically he can create a "win", which he is in desparate need of right now.  Don't get me wrong, I secretly hope that he is so peeved and disappointed at the "Coulters" right now that he nominates Mario Cuomo or Laurence Tribe but I don't really think it's gonna happen.And on the first point Se7en is also right.  Bush is NOT "dumb".  Is he willfully and dangerously ignorant about many important issues? Yes.  Is he a spoiled rich kid who (unconsciously or not) took advantage of his parents' socio-economic status to create a pretty damn nice life for himself without having to work for it? Sure.  Does he behave like he is "The Chosen One" and overtrust his gut instincts on issues that he is unbelievably underinformed about and not realize that his appointees feed him just the data that will lead him to support their pet projects? All the time!  Is he the Worst. President. Ever. ?  Abso-fucking-lutely.  And me and my newly returned buddy Se7en will fight anybody who disagrees with us on these points.  <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wink.gif" border="0" />

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Bulldogcakes

10-29-2005, 04:21 PM

Bush Heads to Camp David to Ponder Nominee (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102800145_pf.html)  
Topping conservatives' list of favorites are federal appellate
judges Samuel Alito, J. Michael Luttig, Alice Batchelder, Priscilla
Owen, Michael McConnell, Karen Williams and Janice Rogers Brown as well
as Michigan Supreme Court Justice Maura Corrigan.
Other potential
candidates who are not judges include Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas; Chris
Cox, a former congressman and current chairman of the Securities and
Exchange Commission; and Maureen Mahoney, a frequent litigator before
the high court. She sometimes is referred to as the "female version" of
John Roberts, Bush's choice for chief justice, who was confirmed by the
Senate 78-22.

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Bulldogcakes

10-29-2005, 04:24 PM

I say pick Janis Rogers Brown. Not for any reason other than she has
three names, all the others only have two. And if that doesn't work,
pick David Lee Roth. Especially since the radio gig probably will never
get off the ground, just like the Van Halen reunion. 

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HBox

10-29-2005, 04:58 PM

If Bush is not interested in any fight at all,
he'll pick Michael McConnell. he's just acceptable enough to everyone
involved. 

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mendyweiss

10-31-2005, 06:05 AM

<img height="400" src="http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00154/Marlon_Brando_bilde_154157a.jpg" width="327" border="0" />Alito, Scalia is Corleone next?

I say sweeping the pockets of the Dutchman was not Mob business!

HBox

10-31-2005, 07:19 AM

[color=navy]I've read three of this guy's rulings so far.
First, he dissented against a Pennsylvania law requiring women notify
father's before an abortion. Then he ruled in favor of a cop who strip
searched a 10 year-old girl while searching a house. Then he dissented
against a ruling that disallowed employers to decide against hiring
people because of a "conscious racial bias."I don't like this one bit. 

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This message was edited by HBox on 10-31-05 @ 11:19 AM

Tall_James

10-31-2005, 07:21 AM

I'm still waiting for the first bigoted asshole to say that the court doesn't need another Catholic.

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Doctor Manhattan

10-31-2005, 07:32 AM

quote: I'm still waiting for the first bigoted asshole to say that the court doesn't need another Catholic. I don't think that the court needs any religion.

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Tall_James

10-31-2005, 07:34 AM

I agree, that's why I don't want to hear someone say that about Catholics, Jews, etc.

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Doctor Manhattan

10-31-2005, 07:46 AM

I think the Supreme Court should get rid of the Robes and move into the next millenium:<img src="http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7346/coverdredda7xz.jpg" border="0" />

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Tall_James

10-31-2005, 09:04 AM

CBS REPORTER TO WHITE HOUSE: ALITO 'SLOPPY SECONDS?' Mon Oct 31 2005 11:26:56 ET CBSNEWS Chief White House correspondent John Roberts described the President’s selection of Judge Samuel Alito as “sloppy seconds” during today’s press gaggle with White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan. John Roberts: “So, Scott, you said that -- or the President said, repeatedly, that Harriet Miers was the best person for the job. So does that mean that Alito is sloppy seconds, or what?” Scott McClellan: “Not at all, John.” Sounds like someone is going to get a talking to at CBS.

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Doctor Manhattan

10-31-2005, 09:22 AM

quote: Sounds like someone is going to get a talking to at CBS. Yeah, They got it all wrong. Alito isn't sloppy seconds, Alito is getting sloppy seconds since he's following Miers after she finished with the vagina known as the Supreme Court Nomination process. 

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Recyclerz

10-31-2005, 10:17 AM

<img height="210" src="http://www.fed-soc.org/pictures/Alito-Samuel.jpg" width="140" border="0" />Well, on the down side, I guess I won't be able to get that abortion I'd been dreaming of.On the plus side, I will be able to own a machine gun as long as I don't use it for interstate commerce!<a title="'Cuz Alito says so!" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/31/AR2005103100227.html" target="_self">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/31/AR2005103100227.html</a>

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HBox

10-31-2005, 10:18 AM

I don't know about more Catholics, but the Court
certainly doesn't need another dirty dago wop greaseball.

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Tall_James

10-31-2005, 10:31 AM

I don't know about more Catholics, but the Court certainly doesn't need another dirty dago wop greaseball.Now THAT'S funny!

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Knowledged_one

10-31-2005, 11:13 AM

good recover from the Condoleeza Rice fiasco

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Se7en

10-31-2005, 11:31 AM

quote: I've read three of this guy's rulings so far. First, he dissented against a Pennsylvania law requiring women notify father's before an abortion. Then he ruled in favor of a cop who strip searched a 10 year-old girl while searching a house. Then he dissented against a ruling that disallowed employers to decide against hiring people because of a "conscious racial bias." I don't like this one bit. Excellent.  That means that Bush made the right pick.

This message was edited by Se7en on 10-31-05 @ 3:34 PM

Knowledged_one

10-31-2005, 11:41 AM

If Bush was smart, where is the proof? His grades sucked, he can't speak, he can't run a buisness, he couldn't run that ball team.  - Stephen Hawking can't talk is he dumb?  When will people get the point speaking bad in public doesnt mean you are dumb.  How many of you can speak well in front of a group of 50?  Now try doing it to a whole country.  And Bush's grades in college were roughly the same as Clinton

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TheMojoPin

10-31-2005, 12:13 PM

OK, I'm loathe to have to prop up a hump like Clinton, but saying his "grades are comparable to Bush's" is absurd.  Clinton was a friggin' Rhodes Scholar at Oxford.

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Furtherman

10-31-2005, 12:31 PM

His grades or even his ability to speak isn't the issue.  It's his decisions (and lack of decisions) that aren't smart.That is why he comes off looking "not so bright".  Then there are the stories, that were published in reputable newspapers so there is credibility.  These were from around the election time so they're aren't easy to come by on a search, but I'm sure you heard of them.Like how he told his people when he was the governor of Texas, "God wants me to run for President of the United States."  One of his first cabinet meeting as president he asked "So, has anyone ever met Ariel Sharon?" and had to have the whole Israel-American relationship explained to him.In a meeting with Senator Joe Biden, the senator told him that Sweden is consiering becoming part of the coalition of the willing and Bush told him that couldn't be right because Sweden doesn't have an army because their neutral.  Senator Biden told him he was mistaken, that he meant Switzerland, but Bush was sure of himself until an aide corrected him.And there have been dozens of White House special scientific councils dismissed simply because they disagreed with the administration's stance on everything from global warming to stem cell research.These are stories from former White House staffers.  It's not one of many put out there to bash him - they have just been told matter of factly over the years.  The Joe Biden story came from himself, and he is one of the few admirable and man of his word senators.  There is a tight circle surrounding Bush of people working very hard to show that he isn't quite the presidental character some people expect him to be.  Of course every president has that P.R. aspect, but never as tight or controlled as his.  The administration is more in control than he is.  He got the position on name alone, certainly not by a glowing list of credentials.But they are starting to show leaks and it will be interesting to see how together they are by the end of his presidency.  One thing for sure, he will not be remembered as a strong leader.

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Furtherman

10-31-2005, 12:32 PM

quote: And Bush's grades in college were roughly the same as Clinton  Ehhh, NO. 

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Furtherman

10-31-2005, 12:43 PM

<a href="http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/sloth/2004-10-16b.html" target="_blank">Here is an example of why Bush is distrubing.</a>I was mistaken about the Sweden story - he did not refute Joe Biden - but Biden was at that meeting.

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HBox

10-31-2005, 01:18 PM

This is going to get incredibly ugly. On the right
wing side, they are being so aggresive in defending this guy that they
are trying to claim the nick-name "Scalito" is racist. And even more
disturbingly from the left wing side, democrats or a democratic group
are passing around some kind of paper implying that Alito didn't win a
case against Italian mobsters because he's Italian and he didn't want
to put away mobsters. I hope whoever came out with that one gets a
fucking boot in the face. 

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7449/georgesig0mm.jpg

Se7en

10-31-2005, 01:54 PM

But they are starting to show leaks and it will be interesting to see how together they are by the end of his presidency.  One thing for sure, he will not be remembered as a strong leader.Depends.  Too liberals?  Certainly not.  It really depends upon whether Iraq is successful or not.  I'm sure there were plenty of liberals around the time of Iran Contra who were saying much the same thing.  "Reagan will never be remembered as a strong leader."  And yet, he is, especially given the end of the Cold War.  If Iraq is successful - more so than it is now - than there will have to be some grudging respect given by liberals.As for Alito, he definitely has the credentials, which puts him well above Miers.  It will likely be a bloody confirmation process, but he will ultimately get through, and it'll be interesting to see if the Democrats fall for the Republicans ploy, by being SO overwhelmingly negative towards Alito that they are easily painted as being against him solely because he is conservative, and that that they are out of touch with the rest of the country, who despite what they might say, does trend conservative.Is he the Worst. President. Ever. ?  Abso-fucking-lutely.  And me and my newly returned buddy Se7en will fight anybody who disagrees with us on these points.Oh please.  It's this type of ridiculous partisan overreacting that makes me unable to take your opinion seriously.  Worst president ever?  Worse than William Henry Harrison, who lasted all of a month?  Worse than Grant, or Hoover, or Jimmy fucking Carter?  C'mon.  I'm not going to say he's the cat's pajamas, but he's far from the worst.  Well, on the down side, I guess I won't be able to get that abortion I'd been dreaming of.Ah yes, abortion rights, the last great red herring of liberal ideologyThe right to an abortion is never going to go away.  Liberals always bring it up whenever a Republican president gets to nominate a new Justice, like some great boogeyman.  Look, Bush could stack the court with nothing but conservatives, and the Court still would not overturn Roe v. Wade or eliminate that right.  The WORST that would happen - and even this won't happen - would be that abortion rights would go to the states to decide, and I would have a hard time believing that even a majority of the so-called 'red states' would do away with the practice.  It just isn't going to happen.I personally don't even care about a nominee's stance on abortion.  Way I see it, the right is there, it's settled law.  I'm not one who's clamoring for the right to be taken away from anyone.  It just doesn't concern me.  I care about how a nominee might vote on other matters.  For example, the way the Court voted in the New London decision.  An absolutely abysmal, horrible ruling.  Things like that are keep me awake at night.

TheMojoPin

10-31-2005, 02:03 PM

Worst president ever?  Worse than William Henry Harrison, who lasted all of a month?Why is Harrison always brought up when people talk about "bad" or "the worst" US presidents?  It's not like the guy chose to get sick and die.  If dying in office makes someone a crappy president, I guess FDR and Lincoln suck HUGE balls.Oh please.  It's this type of ridiculous partisan overreacting that makes me unable to take your opinion seriously.As long as you toss out the word "liberal" like it's a slur and automatically cheer for policy decisions just because they "piss liberals off," aren't you doing the same thing?The right to an abortion is never going to go away.  Liberals always bring it up whenever a Republican president gets to nominate a new Justice, like some great boogeyman.  Look, Bush could stack the court with nothing but conservatives, and the Court still would not overturn Roe v. Wade or eliminate that right.  The WORST that would happen - and even this won't happen - would be that abortion rights would go to the states to decide, and I would have a hard time believing that even a majority of the so-called 'red states' would do away with the practice.  It just isn't going to happen.Now here I agree with you 100%.  It's a red herring issue that would be political suicide.  Sure, they COULD overturn Roe vs. Wade...but the Republicans would lose their majority in a heartbeat come all the next few elections afterwards.  But please don't act like only "liberals" think that a conservative bench might make abortions criminal.  You think Pat Robertson was praying for the current justices to die or step down just for the fun of it?And actually, I'd very curious to see why you believe Jimmy Carter is a worse president than Bush.  And look, I don't think we've had a truly good or great president since Truman, so don't think I'm tossing this out there just because Carter swings closer to my political pursuasion.

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HBox

10-31-2005, 02:05 PM

Worse than William Henry Harrison, who lasted all of a month?What a cheap shot! It's not his fault he died.Even
if Iraq turns out exceedingly well, there's enough Bush has done
domestically that will nullify that. The Medicare drug benefit that's
so complicated seniors can't figure it out, the rest of us can't figure
out how to pay for and was written by drug company lobbyists? The
general shitty nature of the Federal Government's finances in general?
The incredibly reckless combination of huge tax cuts and discretionary
spending increases combined with the cost of war? There are going to be
a lot of pissed off people when we have to pay for this. And this is
just a much a part of Bush's legacy as Iraq. As soon as some
responsible people get back in the White House, there will be huge tax
increases and huge spending cuts. And it's Bush's fault, and if he has
to share any responsibility it's with the Republican Congress.Take
that combined with an Iraq disaster and I certainly think we have a
candidate for worst President ever. It's a long way off before we can
judge that, but I'm not optomistic on any front. 


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TheMojoPin

10-31-2005, 02:08 PM

Se7en, this'll make it crystal clear:"George Bush and his administration of neo-cons spend money like they're liberals."

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HBox

10-31-2005, 02:13 PM

"George Bush and his administration of neo-cons spend money like they're liberals."And the biggest problem with that is that they still tax like arch-conservatives. 

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7449/georgesig0mm.jpg

whoopsy

10-31-2005, 03:10 PM

quote:  Look, Bush could stack the court with nothing but conservatives, and the Court still would not overturn Roe v. Wade or eliminate that right.  The WORST that would happen - and even this won't happen - would be that abortion rights would go to the states to decide, and I would have a hard time believing that even a majority of the so-called 'red states' would do away with the practice.  It just isn't going to happen.  Well, not according to this..  (not sure how to link with these new buttons)"Thirty states ready to ban abortion if Roe overturned"<a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/10/05/national1241EDT0560.DTL">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/10/05/national1241EDT0560.DTL</a>What's bullshit is that recent history has taught us that Supreme Court judges seemingly make decisions based on their own set of morals or party affiliations.  How can they so easily let these things affect interpretation of the law?  It's a fucking joke.<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=whoobsy" border="0" />

This message was edited by whoopsy on 10-31-05 @ 7:13 PM

Bulldogcakes

10-31-2005, 03:58 PM

I'm sure this will be a huge fight, but one which will only serve to
galvanize Bush's base, which has been adrift lately. May even propel
him to passing some other agenda items, like spending cuts, border
security and some other things his base has been clamoring for. And the
folks on the Talk Radio circuit are already linking them. 
For the folks on the Left, is this really THAT big a shift for
the Court? We're replacing Reagan appointed O'Connor with Bush
appointed Alito. Its not like replacing Breyer or John Paul Stevens
with this guy. I'd like to see someone show me a few 5/4 decisions they
think would be changed by this appointment.  
And you can never be totally sure how justices turn out anyway.
I think this is being used on BOTH sides to motivate their troops. And
dont forget, Bush isn't the only one with low approval #'s lately. 


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Tall_James

10-31-2005, 04:05 PM

I'd very curious to see why you believe Jimmy Carter is a worse president than Bush.<img height="317" src="http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/holiday/historicalpets3/images/1977-mistyamy-398v.jpg" width="206" border="0" />Amy Carter<img height="320" src="http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/05/25/barbarajennabush.jpg" width="200" border="0" />Bush twins.End of argument.

<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=tall_james">

Bulldogcakes

10-31-2005, 04:20 PM

quote: 
Well, not according to this.. (not sure how to link with these new buttons)"Thirty states ready to ban abortion if Roe overturned"<a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/10/05/national1241EDT0560.DTL">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/10/05/national1241EDT0560.DTL</a> 
 Well
first of all, what do you expect the Center for Reproductive Rights to
tell you? "Dont worry, everything's fine?" Thats not how they make
their living. They're an Abortion rights advocacy group. You're not
exactly citing a neutral opinion there. And the only 5/4 decision
I remember was involving parental notification. A far cry from the
ficticious "ban" they try to create. What's
bullshit is that recent history has taught us that Supreme Court judges
seemingly make decisions based on their own set of morals or party
affiliations. How can they so easily let these things affect
interpretation of the law? It's a fucking joke. And
you're not trying to force YOUR morals and priorities down the throats
of these localites? All overturning Roe would mean is it gets thrown
back to the states. If they have a MAJORITY who doesn't want it in
their state, THEY SHOULDN'T have it. Its called Democracy, something
the Left is always lecturing about, except when it doesn't give them
the correct result. And if this is just a few "Christian
Conservatives" who have undue sway in these states, they'll get killed
at the ballot box in the next election. You can imagine how much
national attention the first state that tries to ban it will get from
both the national media and every women's rights group on the planet.
The worst thing you can do in politics is galvanize your opposition
like this. You'll lose every close race, and most likely your majorites
in the state house along with it. 
And Politicians are pussies by nature. One state gets a housecleaning trying to ban abortion, no other state will DARE try it. 


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Bulldogcakes

10-31-2005, 04:47 PM

One thing I liked about Alito is his demeanor. He may be as
conservative as Scalia, but he's not as in your face about it. Thats
one thing that turns many people off about some conservatives who might
otherwise agree with them. And that demeanor will serve him well at his
hearing. If a senator starts screaming at him (like Kennedy did to
Roberts) the senator will come out looking bad to neutral observers. 
His qualifications are ridiculous. Ivy League education, US Attorney for NJ, 15-year career on the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia. He's
more qualified than Roberts was, and he sailed through. The only reason
to oppose him is because he's conservative. And if you didn't want
that, you should have done more to win the last election.  

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TheMojoPin

10-31-2005, 05:54 PM

And you're not trying to force YOUR morals and priorities down the throats of these localites?How is he even remotely attempting to do such a thing?It's called "pro-CHOICE" for a reason.

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whoopsy

10-31-2005, 07:11 PM

And you're not trying to force YOUR morals and priorities down the throats of these localites? All overturning Roe would mean is it gets thrown back to the states. If they have a MAJORITY who doesn't want it in their state, THEY SHOULDN'T have it. Its called Democracy, something the Left is always lecturing about, except when it doesn't give them the correct result. great use of caps, and I'm not forcing anything down anything.  My issue is not about abortion rights, I  bemoan that Supreme Court justices appear more motivated by politics and their own moral framework when making decisions than the letter of the law.  When I turn on C-SPAN and see that some bill in the House gets 100% support from the Repubs and 100% rejection from the Dems, I shake my head but understand "that's politics".  When I see that same kind of division in the Courts, it pisses me off.  That's supposed to be an objective arena unmotivated by these kinds of things.  Now off your soapbox.

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HBox

10-31-2005, 09:05 PM

And
even more disturbingly from the left wing side, democrats or a
democratic group are passing around some kind of paper implying that
Alito didn't win a case against Italian mobsters because he's Italian
and he didn't want to put away mobsters. I hope whoever came out with
that one gets a fucking boot in the face.Apparently
I was wrong on this one. Chris Matthews went on MSNBC incensed about
some memo that he said implied that because Alito was Italian he blew a
prosectuion against mobsters. Townhall.com posted the memo in it's
enitrety and I find nothing that would support that allegation. Am I
wrong?<a href="http://www.townhall.com/blogs/capitolreport/TimChapman/story/2005/10/31/173672.html" target="_blank">Here's the link.</a> 

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A.J.

10-31-2005, 09:28 PM

Stephen Hawking can't talk is he dumb?By definition, yes.

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Bulldogcakes

11-01-2005, 02:51 AM

quote: Apparently
I was wrong on this one. Chris Matthews went on MSNBC incensed about
some memo that he said implied that because Alito was Italian he blew a
prosectuion against mobsters. Townhall.com posted the memo in it's
enitrety and I find nothing that would support that allegation. Am I
wrong?<a href="http://www.townhall.com/blogs/capitolreport/TimChapman/story/2005/10/31/173672.html" target="_blank">Here's the link.</a> I'm
sure he's won and lost many cases as US Attorney. To single out one he
lost involving the Mob implies he didn't try very hard, that maybe he's
in bed with/symapthetic to these guys. To even bring it up shows a
certain mindset. Like any other bad steroetype attached to any other ethnic
group. Maybe one day we'll be able to nominate an Italian American for
something in this country without having the Mob come up. But were
obviously not there yet. 


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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-1-05 @ 7:16 AM

Bulldogcakes

11-01-2005, 03:14 AM

quote:How is he even remotely attempting to do such a thing?It's called "pro-CHOICE" for a reason.

 I agree, if you dont
want an abortion, dont have one. But I also respect the rights of
localities to make laws based on their values (and yes) thier
religiously-inspired beliefs. Everyone's religion (or lack thereof)
inspires what they think should be law, whether they realize it or not.
And to say "I get to pass laws based on my religiously inspired values
but you dont" is utter hypocrisy. Most Jews have no problem with
abortion, based on Torah teachings. The mother comes first. Most
Christians believe you should do all you can protect the most innocent,
the unborn child. Both are reasonable, both are legitimate points of
view. But it seems that when you take an anti-abortion stance, people
accuse you of imposing your religion on others, but they dont when its
the other way around. Many Christians consider abortion to be murder,
and they live in a country that sanctions it. So either way, someone
gets a religion shoved down their throat. But Christian citizens have
every right to petition
the government for laws that reflect their values, as does every other
religious group. And I respect that. 
 
 

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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-1-05 @ 7:23 AM

JerryTaker

11-01-2005, 03:42 AM

Many Christians consider
abortion to be murder, and they live in a country that sanctions it. So
either way, someone gets a religion shoved down their throat.There's
a huge difference between sanctioning something that a group considers
morally wrong, and  a group DENYING something they find morally
wrong to everyone else. That difference is choice. If you find abortion
moraly wrong, don't have one, nobody's forcing them to. But the other
way around, you take the choice away from everyone else who thinks
abortion is a necessary evil in this fucked up world. The difference,
and the point, is CHOICE. 
Dumb example, but maybe something more people can relate to:
Imagine overnight we have a majority jewish supreme court, I wouldn't
even want to know what a "Back alley cheeseburger" tastes like. Please
keep in mind that our constitution RECOGNIZES our rights, it does not
DEFINE them. (not every single thing, anyway)  That's what our
country was founded on; remember freedom? 

 
Sweet Queen Bee, I hope it comes quickly,
I hope your thoughts don't drift to me
I'll die in here, you now are free...

Doctor Manhattan

11-01-2005, 05:15 AM

quote: And Bush's grades in college were roughly the same as Clinton Well a few things about this statement:<ol><li><div>That is just not true, but it doesn't matter because:</div></li><li>I'm not a big fan of Clinton, so comparing Bush and Clinton doesn't mean much to me.</li><li><div>Bush's grades are not really something I care about, I was listing a number of things that make me think W Bush isn't very bright. I am asking for ANY proof that he isn't a dummy (The items I listed are not TOTAL proof he's a moron, but without anything to put into the other column that is what I'm left with) There are a lot of bright people that had bad/average grades. so it's not the only proof. But you Bush Backers still haven't provided any proof he's smart.</div></li></ol>Public speaking doesn't mean you're smart, it just means you can speak well. So we all agree W can't speak well. So, What does he do well? 

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A.J.

11-01-2005, 05:38 AM

But you Bush Backers still haven't provided any proof he's smart.<ul><li><div>First President to earn an MBA.</div></li><li><div>Speaks a foreign language fairly fluently (Spanish).</div></li><li><div>Learned to fly a fighter jet.</div></li></ul>He may not be Mensa, but he's not Special Ed either.

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Furtherman

11-01-2005, 06:16 AM

quote:  quote: But they are starting to show leaks and it will be interesting to see how together they are by the end of his presidency.  One thing for sure, he will not be remembered as a strong leader.  Depends.  Too liberals?  Certainly not.  It really depends upon whether Iraq is successful or not.  I'm sure there were plenty of liberals around the time of Iran Contra who were saying much the same thing.  "Reagan will never be remembered as a strong leader."  And yet, he is, especially given the end of the Cold War.  If Iraq is successful - more so than it is now - than there will have to be some grudging respect given by liberals.Again, until you realize that anyone who disagrees with the Bush administration should not to be lumped into your "liberal" label, your points come off as ridiculious and invalid.  And how can anyone look at someone who believes a god is leading me, telling them what to do and take them seriously?  There are entire wings of mental instutions filled with people like that.  It was just reported last month that Bush told Arabs leaders just that - that god wanted him to help create a Palestinian State.  Not only does that come off as dumb, but dangerous.  Not the creation of that state, but dangerous as in, what will the god tell him next?   <img src="http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/randomizer/random.php?uid=7" border="0" />

This message was edited by Furtherman on 11-1-05 @ 10:17 AM

Doctor Manhattan

11-01-2005, 06:29 AM

quote: First President to earn an MBA. Is this true? That's amazing that no other president has had an Masters Of Business Administration but it's scary that the one who did had such a poor record in the business world.

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HBox

11-01-2005, 10:51 AM

Here's a quote from Andrew Napolitano, a Fox
news legal analyst and a former Superior Court judge about
Alito:Sam Alito is just what George Bush is looking
for: a big government conservative who will almost always side with the
government against the individual, and the federal government against
the state 


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HBox

11-01-2005, 11:07 AM

It will likely be a bloody
confirmation process, but he will ultimately get through, and it'll be
interesting to see if the Democrats fall for the Republicans ploy, by
being SO overwhelmingly negative towards Alito that they are easily
painted as being against him solely because he is conservative, and
that that they are out of touch with the rest of the country, who
despite what they might say, does trend conservative.I
was thinking about this, and how could the Democrats POSSIBLY come out
of this looking any worse than Republcians? Bush nominates a
consevrative, unqualified candidate that he thinks will fly because he
says she's conservative enough. But then she gets ripped apart so bad
by her own party, by some for being unqualified and by some because
they aren't 100% sure she's conservative, that she never reaches a
hearing. The Democrats said shit and threw some tough questions at
Roberts, but he was confirmed quickly. It's not like a liberal
candidate was nominated and the left wing took a hissy fit because the
candidate wasn't liberal enough.Finally, the Republicans
completely lost the moral high ground, if they even ever had it. The
Democrats can do whatever they want to torpedo this candidate because
that's just what the Republicans did. 


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Bulldogcakes

11-01-2005, 02:46 PM

quote:  
It's not like a liberal
candidate was nominated and the left wing took a hissy fit because the
candidate wasn't liberal enough. This struck some of us a hissy fit (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051101/D8DJU0K80.html) [/quote]  
A cheap ploy just to gum up the works and throw a fake bargaining chip on the table. Nobody's buying it. 
<blockquote />

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Bulldogcakes

11-01-2005, 02:58 PM

Some
interesting remarks from Chuck Schumer, some off-mike (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/31/AR2005103100707.html)It is an immutable law of history that when a president tries to govern
from the extreme, his presidency and the country end up losing.
Democrats learned this when we governed from the far left. President
Bush will learn this as well. I agree completely, and thats why I'm not worried about any of this. BTW-Read "governed from the far left"=Clinton's National Health Care. For those of you who still want it.   
SCHUMER: Well, as I said, it's civil rights, it's workers'
rights, it's women's rights, it's the power of the executive, it's
issue after issue after issue. There's not just one isolated strain. 
I would say this: There are certain cases that go in the other direction too. 

Doesn't sound like an extremist to me if he's decided in both directions.  

SCHUMER: OK. My rule is this. I understand that the president
isn't going to nominate someone who would agree with me on every issue.
I voted for close to 200 judges that that president has nominated who
don't. 
My criteria is the same as it's always
been: A judge should interpret the law, not make it. There are judges
at the extremes, because they are so passionate in what they believe,
who seek to actually make law from the bench. 
The
irony is, the conservative movement on the judiciary, which arose in
reaction to judges on the left making law -- and they did -- is now
doing the same thing, just from the right. 

I love these rare moments of honesty in politics. 


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HBox

11-01-2005, 03:08 PM

BTW-Read "governed from the far left"=Clinton's National Health Care. For those of you who still want it.Don't
bring that into this discussion, not when no conservative has a
solution to that problem. (HSAs are not a solution, they are a joke)
Not when they don't even care, and try to completley avoid the issue at
all times. No, just don't.And don't call it far from the left
either. Every single other industrialized nation has it. Huge
corporations are now calling for it. So just don't start. 


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Bulldogcakes

11-01-2005, 03:10 PM

quote:Dumb example, but maybe something more people can relate to:
Imagine overnight we have a majority jewish supreme court, I wouldn't
even want to know what a "Back alley cheeseburger" tastes like. 
 That was really
funny, but I think "Back Alley BLT" would have been more accurate. Jews
eat red meat, just no pork.   (right?) <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/huh.gif" />  If it was a majority Hindu Supreme court, then that joke would be perfect.  Listen to some people from the National Board of Health and the "Back alley cheeseburger" may not be far away either. 


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Bulldogcakes

11-02-2005, 05:13 PM

Read this if you believe Alito's a right wing zealot (http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1102/p01s04-usju.html) For example, of the four abortion cases in which
he participated as an appeals court judge, he voted on the pro-choice
side in all but one. A 1995 Alito vote striking down a Pennsylvania
abortion restriction in particular is raising eyebrows among some legal
scholars.

"That [1995 case] strongly seems to indicate that Alito is not a
policy-driven true-believer who's used every possible opportunity to
advance one side's preferred outcome, but instead a judge who has
indeed come down on both sides, in different cases," says David Garrow,
a constitutional historian and expert in reproductive rights cases at
the high court. Its
exactly bacause of stuff like this that I tend to dismiss what the
advocates say, as a rule. You follow politics long enough, and you
realize they're lying to you. Or at best, misleading you.  

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Furtherman

11-03-2005, 05:38 AM

quote: For example, of the four abortion cases in which he participated as an appeals court judge, he voted on the pro-choice side in all but one. A 1995 Alito vote striking down a Pennsylvania abortion restriction in particular is raising eyebrows among some legal scholars."That [1995 case] strongly seems to indicate that Alito is not a policy-driven true-believer who's used every possible opportunity to advance one side's preferred outcome, but instead a judge who has indeed come down on both sides, in different cases," says David Garrow, a constitutional historian and expert in reproductive rights cases at the high court. That's good and promising.  It still amazes me that others tell women what to do with their bodies.  You think it would fly is the courts outlawed vasectomies? 

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Doctor Manhattan

11-03-2005, 06:29 AM

I see no one has bothered to address my George W Bush's MBA vs. his Business Backgroud statement.Did W really earn that MBA?

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Bulldogcakes

11-03-2005, 01:31 PM

quote:That's good and promising. It
still amazes me that others tell women what to do with their bodies.
You think it would fly is the courts outlawed vasectomies? Yeah,
but abortion is more complicated than that. At some point you're
dealing with another human being. 1st trimester I cant complain about.
2nd trimester my knees start shaking, and by the 3rd I'm out. Way out. 

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Se7en

11-03-2005, 02:28 PM

To tie in with some of the material Bulldog has been posting here.<a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-legal2nov02,0,4962703.story?coll=la-home-headlines" target="_self">Alito has some unexpected supporters.</a>Former federal Judge Timothy K. Lewis said that when he joined the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals in 1992, he consulted his mentor, Judge A. Leon Higginbotham Jr. The late Higginbotham, a legendary liberal and a scholar of U.S. racial history, was the only other black judge on the Philadelphia-based court at the time. "As he was going down the roster of colleagues, he got to Sam Alito. I expressed some concern about [him] being so conservative. He said, 'No, no. Sam Alito is my favorite judge to sit with on this court. He is a wonderful judge and a terrific human being. Sam Alito is my kind of conservative. He is intellectually honest. He doesn't have an agenda. He is not an ideologue,' " Higginbotham said, according to Lewis.  I wonder if we can cut the "He's a right-wing extremist!" bullshit now.

A.J.

11-03-2005, 11:02 PM

I see no one has bothered to address my George W Bush's MBA vs. his Business Backgroud statement.Did W really earn that MBA?<a href="http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=202" target="_blank"><img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=skw" border="0" /></a> President Bush received a Master of Business Administration from Harvard Business School in 1975.<a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html">http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html</a>  

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HBox

11-03-2005, 11:27 PM

quote:I wonder if we can cut the "He's a right-wing extremist!" bullshit now. Well, the word of one guy I've never heard of 13 years ago is good enough for me!

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This message was edited by HBox on 11-4-05 @ 3:32 AM

spoon

11-04-2005, 12:41 AM

Beat me to it Boxy Brown.

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F yeah!

Doctor Manhattan

11-04-2005, 03:25 AM

quote: Did W really earn that MBA?<a href="http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=202" target="_blank"></a>  quote: President Bush received a Master of Business Administration from Harvard Business School in 1975.  <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html">http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html</a>  No, I am sure he received the MBA, I was asking if he earned it, like did he learn how businesses are to be run and did he deserve that MBA? We're lucky W didn't become an MD. 

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spoon

11-04-2005, 03:41 AM

Not really.  Perhaps if he was a doc in Texas or CT we wouldn't have had to live through the last five years of hell.  Up next, year #6!  aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

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F yeah!

A.J.

11-04-2005, 05:37 AM

quote: quote: Did W really earn that MBA?<a href="http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=202" target="_blank"></a>  quote: President Bush received a Master of Business Administration from Harvard Business School in 1975.  <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html">http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html</a>  No, I am sure he received the MBA, I was asking if he earned it, like did he learn how businesses are to be run and did he deserve that MBA? We're lucky W didn't become an MD. <a href="http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=202" target="_blank"><img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=skw" border="0" /></a> Following that logic Clinton didn't earn his law degree because he committed perjury and, as having been educated to be a lawyer, he should have known what perjury was and that it was bad.  I'm not turning this into a Republican vs. Democrat thing.  I'm just saying that there's book smarts and there's real life.  And sometimes people fuck up in real life.  Hell, even Harry Truman was a failure as a businessman.  He turned out to be a pretty good President though.

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Furtherman

11-04-2005, 06:07 AM

quote: Yeah, but abortion is more complicated than that. At some point you're dealing with another human being. 1st trimester I cant complain about. 2nd trimester my knees start shaking, and by the 3rd I'm out. Way out.  Human beings are animals.   An animal that would never know it's alive... any sense of being.  That's a fetus.  Yea, late term seems harsh, but there are circumstances, such as a danger to the mother, that makes it necessary. 

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Doctor Manhattan

11-04-2005, 06:11 AM

quote: Following that logic Clinton didn't earn his law degree because he committed perjury and, as having been educated to be a lawyer, he should have known what perjury was and that it was bad.  I'm not turning this into a Republican vs. Democrat thing.  I'm just saying that there's book smarts and there's real life.  And sometimes people fuck up in real life.  I also don't want this to be a REP vs DEM thing. I am not a fan of Clinton and I lean more Republican than Democrat, so bring up Clinton doesn't mean much to me. But since you did:Clinton has a law degree and he comes off like a lawyer, a slick guy who knows how to talk to people and get what he wants. He's a liar, but he's got a great personality. A Perfect Political, He's a scumbag! W doesn't come off like someone who should be running anything.Which brings me back to the topic of this thread, I love how the Republican's are treating W, like the fucking mornon puppet he is. Hell, even Harry Truman was a failure as a businessman.  He turned out to be a pretty good President though.Well, It would be nice if W turned out to be good at one or the other. That is why W is no Truman.

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Bulldogcakes

11-04-2005, 03:23 PM

Take a wild guess what right wing Christian Conservative zealot made this statement   "I never have felt that any abortion should be committed -- I think
each abortion is the result of a series of errors," he told reporters
over breakfast at the Ritz-CarltonHotel, while across town Senate
Democrats deliberated whether to filibuster the nomination of Judge
Samuel A. Alito Jr. because he may share President Bush and Mr.          abhorrence of abortion.
 
    "These things impact other issues on which [Mr. Bush] and I
basically agree, I've never been
convinced, if you let me inject my Christianity into it, that Jesus
Christ would approve abortion."
 
 
Answer here (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051103-111740-7148r.htm)  Some moreDemocrats must "let the deeply religious people and the moderates on
social issues like abortion feel that the Democratic party cares about
them and understands them," he said, adding that many Democrats, like
him, "have some concern about, say, late-term abortions, where you kill
a baby as it's emerging from its mother's womb."
   

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TheMojoPin

11-04-2005, 06:47 PM

And...?

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Bulldogcakes

11-04-2005, 07:31 PM

Thats the kind of statement even right wing Christian conservatives
would hesitate to make, and yet there it is, and from a pretty
surprising source. Be honest, if Bush ever said anything CLOSE
to that, it would be mocked on Air America 24/7. And I think his second
point was the important one. That somewhere along the way, religious
people became less than welcome in the Democratic party, if not
outright ridiculed. And I think thats one big reason why the Red/Blue
states map looks like it does. And its correctable, and I think should
be if the Democrats want to win elections.    

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spoon

11-04-2005, 10:11 PM

And Air America did rip on Carter for saying what he said.  Where's the error in having an abortion due to medical reasons (in regards to the child or mother) or bc of rape.  Rape isn't an "error", it's an awful crime.  His older approach to abortion made much more sense.  I'm sick of this being the litmus test for judges since I've been alive.  Take the religious aspect out of it and the choice angle is right.  If it's against your religion, don't get one in every circumstance.  I don't need my choices made for me by religions I don't believe in.  Enough already, I'm sick of the religious nuts ruining this country in the name of their god, only to discover they're the most evil people on the planet.  I guess the poor don't have much clout with god bc the repubs don't give two shits about them.  Yet the continue to create more and more of them so they can up their profits. 

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spoon

11-04-2005, 10:16 PM

I don't want my party to play for the religious right, I want them to have some conviction and balls with what they do believe.  Kerry ran such a pussy campaign, I wouldn't have voted for him if he wasn't against W.  We need to get our platforms out there and call a spade a spade.  Enough of the kissing ass as if the Dems lost by crazy numbers.  That election was close, and could have been won if Kerry ever stepped up.  The debates were formatted, he was silent to his attackers, he never attacked Bush and the many issues that were and are still out there.  If America wakes up they'll finally realize they've been voting against their own interest. 

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HBox

11-04-2005, 10:58 PM

That somewhere
along the way, religious people became less than welcome in the
Democratic party, if not outright ridiculed.I
believe that has more to do with Democrats allowing Republicans to
portray them in the worst possible light to religious
people. 


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spoon

11-04-2005, 11:44 PM

Nothing Popoff's miracle water can't cure!  Fucking lunies!

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TheMojoPin

11-05-2005, 05:42 AM

quote: Thats the kind of statement even right wing Christian conservatives would hesitate to make, and yet there it is, and from a pretty surprising source. Be honest, if Bush ever said anything CLOSE to that, it would be mocked on Air America 24/7. And I think his second point was the important one. That somewhere along the way, religious people became less than welcome in the Democratic party, if not outright ridiculed. And I think thats one big reason why the Red/Blue states map looks like it does. And its correctable, and I think should be if the Democrats want to win elections.    <img src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetBulldogcakes3.jpg" border="0" /> <a href="http://bulldogcakes.tripod.com/index.html" target="blank">My site Bully Baby</a> "A dog recently saved his owner's life, because he had been trained to dial 911. Unfortunately, operators had trouble finding the address 'woof, woof.'"-Norm MacDonald How is it "correctable?"  Carter is stating HIS opinion, and there are many people like him on the left.  I'm one of them.  I find the idea of abortion absolutely hideous, but I also feel that ultimately it is up to the mother.  I'd want to be able to offer my input and opinion, but in the end it's the woman's decision as to what she wants to put her body and life through.  Carter himself disagrees with abortion, but that doesn't mean he would use the law of the land to bow to his religious beliefs.  Therein lies what bothers most people on the left...not the strawman "liberals hate religion" argument.  Typically, our concern and ire is raised when religion is infused WITH politics.  There is a clear difference...somebody can be "religious" all the want in their life.  But when they try and cross it over to dominate and dictate their policy decisions for large numbers of people, THEN it becomes an issue.  It's ironic that you used Carter, since he's one of the most outspoken public figures for the speration of church and state BECUASE of his strong religious convictions. 

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Bulldogcakes

11-06-2005, 04:54 AM

quote:How is it
"correctable?" Carter is stating HIS opinion, and there are many people
like him on the left. I'm one of them. I find the idea of abortion
absolutely hideous, but I also feel that ultimately it is up to the
mother. I'd want to be able to offer my input and opinion, but in the
end it's the woman's decision as to what she wants to put her body and
life through. Carter himself disagrees with abortion, but that doesn't
mean he would use the law of the land to bow to his religious beliefs.
Therein lies what bothers most people on the left...not the strawman
"liberals hate religion" argument. Typically, our concern and ire is
raised when religion is infused WITH politics. There is a clear
difference...somebody can be "religious" all the want in their life.
But when they try and cross it over to dominate and dictate their
policy decisions for large numbers of people, THEN it becomes an issue.
It's ironic that you used Carter, since he's one of the most outspoken
public figures for the speration of church and state BECUASE of his
strong religious convictions. 
 

 First of all, the
idea you can seperate your religious background from your politics is
false. People's religious background inspires their worldview, which in
turn inspires their politics. Goverment needs to be secular, and it
should be, but the reality is you cant seperate the two.  If
someones religion tells them abortion is fine (as is the case with most
Jews) Are they infusing THIER religious beliefs with their politics?
And how come you dont have a problem with that?According to you,
if someone's political stance is reflected by a major
religion, should they EXCLUDED from participating in the political
process? You'll have a pretty empty room if you want that. 
 
At the end of the day, politics is about people making laws that
match their values and who wins elections. We all have to live with
laws we dont like. YOU raise the strawman with the "mixing religion and
politics" argument. That being said, I agree with Carter's
stance on keeping government out of people's churches. Government cant
be seen as favoring one denomination over another. But there's a
difference between that and passing laws based on based on one's
values, religiously inspired or otherwise. 
 

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TheMojoPin

11-06-2005, 06:37 AM

Carter's main point isn't keeping the government out of the churches, it's the other way around.If religion is so unavoidable in politics, why isn't the death penalty outlawed nationwide?Of course people are going to be influenced by their religious upbringing.  But there's a huge difference between letting that INFLUENCE your politics and DEFINING them.

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DJEvelEd

11-06-2005, 06:43 AM

Clinton was not liberal. I'm a fuckin liberal! Clinton was your typical republicrat scumbag. Same ol same fuckin ol status quo...

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Bulldogcakes

11-06-2005, 08:53 AM

quote:If religion is so unavoidable in politics, why isn't the death penalty outlawed nationwide? #1 Many religions sanction the death penalty. The Old Testament is looooaded with reasons to kill people #2 People are full of shit#3
Most people dont understand their own religion, or dont care. The
Catholic Church has been consistently opposed to the Death penalty, but
most Catholics support it.  I dont support it. Not for religious reasons so much as I just dont trust the courts to get things right.  

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TheMojoPin

11-06-2005, 09:06 AM

Well, everything you just said is why I believe people should keep their religion overtly out of their politics, so I guess I just have to say "thanks."

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spoon

11-06-2005, 02:11 PM

#2 People are full of shitSpeak for yourself bitch cakes.

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Bulldogcakes

02-02-2006, 03:12 AM

<a href="http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/02/D8FGT2BG0.html" target="_self" title="Alito split with the court's conservatives on his first vote">Alito split with the court's conservatives on his first vote</a>But wait! He's "more conservative than Scalia" isn't he? He's "Sca-lito" isn't he? He's replacing a swing vote with an arch conservative, right? Right? Does this mean the Left lied to all of us about him for the past 3 months? Heaven forbid.  <a href="http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/02/D8FGT2BG0.html" target="_self" title="Alito split with the court's conservatives on his first vote"></a>

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