Fired For Smoking: A New Trend [Archive]

HBox

12-11-2005, 06:35 PM

<a href="http://www.wsbtv.com/health/5508409/detail.html" target="_blank">This is starting to happen more and more as companies grapple with rising health insurance costs.</a>Of course this wouldn't be an issue if health insurance was separated from employment and there was national healthcare.........<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/rolleyes.gif" />But anyway, even though I kinda buy into the slippery slope argument (if employers can fire you for this, why not for drinking, or being overweight, etc.), I fucking hate smoking so much that I'll draw the line elsewhere. I'm just a very biased person when it comes to smoking for my own reasons. As it is, employers buy group insurance, and when a bunch of people smoke at an employer, that risk is shared by everyone, not just the smokers, since health insurance companies issue the rates by the average of the group, not each employee individually.So, what do you think? I think, in a perfect world, insurers shouldn't have to cover smokers for ailments caused by smoking like emphysema and lung cancer. THAT WAY, smokers themselves can truly take responsibility for their own choice. And it should also work that way for other things, like obsesity and such. But, that will never happen for a variety of reasons, and might not even work if actually implemented, so any opinions or solutions? 

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Death Metal Moe

12-11-2005, 06:44 PM

I HATE "Big Brother" laws like seatbelt tickets and other  things.  I HATE how in NYC they just outlawed smoking without giving places the option of staying all smoking or something like that.I don't like this either.

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DTN

suggums

12-11-2005, 06:47 PM

I overheard some doofus say there's a law being passed in NJ that people can't even smoke in their own cars.  I'm guessing he was just bullshitting, anyone from Jersey care to inform? 

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HBox

12-11-2005, 06:49 PM

I overheard some doofus say
there's a law being passed in NJ that people can't even smoke in their
own cars.  I'm guessing he was just bullshitting, anyone from Jersey
care to inform?It's probably bullshit, I haven't heard anything about it. 

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FUNKMAN

12-11-2005, 06:49 PM

insurers shouldn't have to cover smokers for ailments caused by smoking like emphysema and lung cancer. THAT WAY, smokers themselves can truly take responsibility for their own choicecan the doctors say for "absolutely sure" that smoking caused these ailments. are there people who don't smoke that get these ailments as well?just curious...  i know you can determine one thing for certain is "smokers smell". i have a co-worker who sits next to me and after he comes in from a smoke and i want to throw up...

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HBox

12-11-2005, 06:52 PM

can the doctors say for
"absolutely sure" that smoking caused these ailments. are there people
who don't smoke that get these ailments as well?No, which is why that would never happen. But still, if you smoke a pack a day for 40 years and get lung cancer, I mean, COME ON. 

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Sheeplovr

12-11-2005, 06:55 PM

"Workers who smoke can get free counseling, nicotine patches and classes on quitting" 
 
  
 
this is completely reasonable they offer the help sounds like a good deal 
 
NJ is probably going to be smoke free next year i can't wait 

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FUNKMAN

12-11-2005, 06:56 PM

No, which is why that would never happen. But still, if you smoke a pack a day for 40 years and get lung cancer, I mean, COME ON. maybe the smoking prevented the lung cancer from occurring earlier in life?i know it's far fetched. i just wish there were 'certainties and absolutes'. it just seems to tough due to everyone's different genetic makeup. one guy can drink the same amount as another and one dies at 40 when his liver gives out and the other lives 30 years longer...

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Death Metal Moe

12-11-2005, 07:01 PM

I guess I'm gonna have to smoke my cigars under a fucking special tent in my back yard soon.  Jesus, get over yourselves people.  Sometimes you have to smell smoke.  It's not gonna kill ya right there on the spot, unless you're a weak punk bitch.

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HBox

12-11-2005, 07:12 PM

Sometimes you have to smell smoke.  It's not gonna kill ya right there on the spot, unless you're a weak punk bitch.Or you're like me and have a lung disease and a good whiff of smoke sends you into an uncontrollabe fit of coughing. Oh, and if that smoker is a complete ass, he'll give me a dirty look like I'm TRYING to embarrass him. No, I'm gasping for breath because it's fun. Seriously, I've been to a restaurant once in the last year because I get pounding headaches even sitting in the non-smoking section. If they ever ban smoking in NJ, I'll jump for joy.But I guess I'm a weak punk bitch. 

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ADF

12-11-2005, 08:34 PM

Bulldogcakes

12-12-2005, 02:37 AM

quote:I think, in a perfect world, insurers shouldn't have
to cover smokers for ailments caused by smoking like emphysema and lung
cancer. THAT WAY, smokers themselves can truly take responsibility for
their own choice. 

 Be careful with that
type of logic. The "People take responsibility" approach. You could
also argue that someone with a genetic predisposition for a disease
shouldn't have children. If they do have kids, and the kid gets the
same disease they had, you knowingly assumed that risk when you
procreated and you're on your own. Your actions resulted in a
likelihood of someone getting an illness, just like a smoker.  Its
real easy to use that logic when it doesn't apply to you "Hey fuck
them, I dont smoke/I'm not fat" But sooner or later it comes around to
everyone.     

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This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-12-05 @ 6:40 AM

Death Metal Moe

12-12-2005, 04:57 AM

quote:  quote: Sometimes you have to smell smoke.  It's not gonna kill ya right there on the spot, unless you're a weak punk bitch.  Or you're like me and have a lung disease and a good whiff of smoke sends you into an uncontrollabe fit of coughing. Oh, and if that smoker is a complete ass, he'll give me a dirty look like I'm TRYING to embarrass him. No, I'm gasping for breath because it's fun. Seriously, I've been to a restaurant once in the last year because I get pounding headaches even sitting in the non-smoking section. If they ever ban smoking in NJ, I'll jump for joy.But I guess I'm a weak punk bitch.  <img src="http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4544/newsig2ki.jpg" border="0" /> So your solution is to punish every smoker?  That's fair. So your solution is to punish every smoker?  That's fair.

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HBox

12-12-2005, 09:48 AM

So your solution is to punish every smoker?  That's fair.Punish every smoker? Is having to go outside to smoke really such a horrible punishment? Is it even a punishment at all? I think of it more as being considerate. I can't find one damn non-smoking restuarant, if there were a significant number of them it would be different. Life isn't fair. DEAL WITH IT. I know that more than you, and I CAN GUARANTEE THAT. 

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HBox

12-12-2005, 09:55 AM

Its real easy to use that
logic when it doesn't apply to you "Hey fuck them, I dont smoke/I'm not
fat" But sooner or later it comes around to everyone.I think there is a difference here. There are no positive effects to smoking. With everything we know about the effects of smoking, it's just irresponsible to do it. Some of these examples are much more extreme and I doubt would ever happen, but others are more realistic. I'm not denying that it's a really fucking murky area, or that it could lead into some fucked up situations, and that's why it'll never happen, but it would be appropriate. You know, to have the freedom to do what you want, and the responsibility to deal with the consequences of that all by yourself.

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Se7en

12-12-2005, 01:52 PM

Punish every smoker? Is having to go outside to smoke really such a horrible punishment? Is it even a punishment at all? I think of it more as being considerate. Some of the proposals being considered, if not already IMPLEMENTED, by companies is to ban smoking within 25 feet of the building.  That's kind of outside the argument, though, because an employer could mandate that none of its employees smoke on the job, but that's not the issue here.  The issue is that these companies are saying that if you smoke at all, which is to say, IN YOUR OWN FUCKING HOUSE, you can't work there.  That, my friend, is bullshit.  Smoking is a LEGAL activity (for now), cigarettes are a LEGAL substance (again, for now....they'll try and take that away from you soon enough).  Employers shouldn't have the right to dictate to you what legal activities you choose to engage in, in the privacy of your own home.It would be one thing if companies were just taking the attitude of not paying for health care costs for illnesses related to smoking, but they're proposing a flat-out ban on employment if you're a smoking.  It's ridiculous.Those who argue about a slippery slope are justified.  In Illinois, they're preparing to <a href="http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-junkfood10.html" target="_self">ban whole milk</a> from school cafeterias.  This health nazi crap is getting too out of hand.

Hottub

12-12-2005, 02:09 PM

I overheard some doofus say there's a law being passed in NJ that people can't even smoke in their own cars.  I'm guessing he was just bullshitting, anyone from Jersey care to inform? Hey if you want to sit in YOUR car, and smoke, knock yourself out. (Good luck getting the smell out of the carpets and seats)If you want to smoke in your own car with a young child in the car with you,You should be given a hefty fine and have your license suspended for a while!I love seeing the mom's in their minivan full of kids lighting up. WITH THE WINDOWS CLOSED!!!  Selfish Bitches!!!

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Bulldogcakes

12-12-2005, 04:15 PM

quote: There are no positive effects to
smoking. 
<img width="320" height="240" border="0" src="http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9804/02/teens.smoking/link.joe.camel.lg.jpg" />  Yes there are! It makes you COOL! I'm sick of being a teenage dork! I WANT TO BE COOL! 


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zentraed

12-12-2005, 05:08 PM

Smoking has a tremendous economic impact:"The CDC
estimates each employee that smokes costs your company $3,391
per year -- including $1,760 in lost productivity and $1,623
in excess medical expenses"And
regarding the talk earlier about establishing cause and effect. In
medicine, it's a two-step process. First, you need to find correlation
(people who smoke have lung cancer). Then you look for a causative process (cigarette smoke causes
cancerous mutations in lung cells). Once you do those two things,
scientifically, it is correct to say smoking causes lung cancer (which
it does. along with emphysema, and it also shortens life spans and
increases risk of heart disease). Good news for the 20somethings though: If you stop before you turn 30, you can expect to live as long as a non-smoker. 


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jafter

12-12-2005, 05:49 PM

I can not find the article but there is a big company that will not hire smokers in the future which is total bullshit.  We all need to wake up and stop letting the anti smoking nazi's run this country.   If you don't want to smoke then don't.  If a business owner does not want to allow smoking in his bar or restaraunt then don't permit it.  The people who want to go to those establishments will go or bartenders and wait staff who don't want to work in a smoking environment can work there, but don't take it away from everyone else.  So when the smoking Nazis are done with cigarettes what is next?  Peoples perfume and cologne?  Obesity? SNOTTY NOSED BRATTY KIDS (Godforbid we have a no children section in a restaurant).  Or go into a store without kids running all over the place and the stupid fucking soccermoms who could care less what their precious little angels are destroying or spreading germs over everything.  Anti smokers watch what you wish for maybe something you enjoy will be next on the hit list. When was the last time you heard about a wife being beaten up because her husband smoked to many cigarettes.   Or did you getting pulled over for smoking and driving.  Or you couldn't get up in the morning because you smoked to many cigarettes the night before.   You could not function at work because you were smoking.   Alcohol sounds a lot worse than cigarettes doesn't it. 

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HBox

12-12-2005, 06:03 PM

Some
of the proposals being considered, if not already IMPLEMENTED, by
companies is to ban smoking within 25 feet of the building. I think that's too far, but even if it's a law on the books I can't imagine any police officer enforcing it.It
would be one thing if companies were just taking the attitude of not
paying for health care costs for illnesses related to smoking, but
they're proposing a flat-out ban on employment if you're a smoking. 
It's ridiculous.Like I said, that would be nice in a perfect world but according to current law that can't happen. For them it's a choice between hiring smokers and higher insurance costs, or not hiring smokers and lower insurance costs. There's no in between. Of course, this wouldn't be a probelm with national healthcare........... 

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SatCam

12-13-2005, 12:18 PM

If you're a smoker and don't want to be fired from your job for being a
smoker, I say they make you incur the extra liability charge for your
habit.  If you're willing to pay that, then I think it'd be BS if
they decided to fire you. 

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