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Bestinshow
12-14-2005, 06:37 AM
<p><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/ts_nm/iran_holocaust_dc">http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/ts_nm/iran_holocaust_dc</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Gee, maybe its not just for electric.</p>

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newport king
12-14-2005, 12:38 PM
i really don't like the bulk of arab people. thats all. nothing really intellectual to add to the topic. just kind of getting tired of these ridiculous comments these people make on a regular basis. i'm sure someone will be quick to point out that &quot;a few bad apples shouldn't spoil the whole bunch.&quot; its just starting to look like&nbsp;way too many&nbsp;bad fucking apples.

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Death Metal Moe
12-14-2005, 12:43 PM
Their hatred of the Jews is complete and total.&nbsp; It's bred into them.&nbsp; It's not right but it's the way they raise their kids.&nbsp; On hate.

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TheMojoPin
12-14-2005, 12:54 PM
<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote:</font><font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana"> <p>i really don't like the bulk of arab people. thats all. nothing really intellectual to add to the topic. just kind of getting tired of these ridiculous comments these people make on a regular basis. i'm sure someone will be quick to point out that &quot;a few bad apples shouldn't spoil the whole bunch.&quot; its just starting to look like&nbsp;way too many&nbsp;bad fucking apples. </p></font>i really don't like the bulk of arab people. thats all. nothing really intellectual to add to the topic. just kind of getting tired of these ridiculous comments these people make on a regular basis. i'm sure someone will be quick to point out that &quot;a few bad apples shouldn't spoil the whole bunch.&quot; its just starting to look like&nbsp;way too many&nbsp;bad fucking apples. <p><img src="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/newportking.jpg" border="0" /></p>Sadly, holocaust denial is and has been (along with general anti-semitism) alive and well around the world WITHOUT vocal support from douchebags like this.<br />

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Johnny4
12-14-2005, 01:47 PM
<font size="3">Th<font size="2">e most current estimate via wikipedia
is about 5.1 million. This includes not just jews who were
exterminated, but Jewish deaths during that time period that came about
because of the holocaust(camps, soldiers etc.which is fair). I just
read a shocking stat. that 90% of Polish Jews were killed. That is
unbelieveable. You have to wonder if the US waited too long to get
involved in that war.<br />
</font></font>

For example: Kindest Regards, Your Name

PapaBear
12-14-2005, 02:29 PM
My&nbsp; uncle was with the first units of Americans to liberate a concentration camp. Try and tell him that it's a myth. He still&nbsp;won't talk about it to this day.

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mdr55
12-14-2005, 02:33 PM
<font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9px;">quote:</font>i
really don't like the bulk of arab people. thats all. nothing really
intellectual to add to the topic. just kind of getting tired of these
ridiculous comments these people make on a regular basis. i'm sure
someone will be quick to point out that &quot;a few bad apples shouldn't
spoil the whole bunch.&quot; its just starting to look like way too many bad
fucking apples.
<img border="0" src="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/newportking.jpg" /><br />EGAD! The rest of the world must be saying that about us cuz of Bush.<br />


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newport king
12-14-2005, 02:45 PM
<p><font size="1">EGAD! The rest of the world must be saying that about us cuz of Bush.</font><br /></p><p>the day american&nbsp;CITIZENS start taking it upon themselves to start terrorizing other nations, or american schools start teaching hate for other countries&nbsp;let me know. thats just one crazy idiot in charge.</p>

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mdr55
12-14-2005, 02:58 PM
<p>Yeah. America never did nothing wrong. We're always right. Fuck the rest of the world.<br />
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So what if we dropped the A-bomb on civilians in Japan. It stopped WW2 didn't it?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>How many other countries have actually used the atomic bomb besides us?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>We don't teach hate? I guess you're not black. Oh that was a several years ago, that don't count. <br />
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>How did we treat the Native americans when they
shared land with us? We took and took, with numerous treaties broken.
Where do you think the expression &quot;Don't trust the white man&quot; comes
from? Oh but they got casinos, so everything is A-OK.&nbsp;</p>

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Death Metal Moe
12-14-2005, 03:16 PM
<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font><p>Yeah. America never did nothing wrong. We're always right. Fuck the rest of the world.</p><p>So what if we dropped the A-bomb on civilians in Japan. It stopped WW2 didn't it?</p><p>How many other countries have actually used the atomic bomb besides us?</p><p>We don't teach hate? I guess you're not black. Oh that was a several years ago, that don't count. </p><p>How did we treat the Native americans when they shared land with us? We took and took, with numerous treaties broken. Where do you think the expression &quot;Don't trust the white man&quot; comes from? Oh but they got casinos, so everything is A-OK.&nbsp;</p>What the fuck are you babbeling about now?&nbsp; All that means the Holocaust didn't happen?&nbsp; What's wrong with you?<br />

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mdr55
12-14-2005, 03:23 PM
<p>Maybe I hit my head this morning while I was going out to shovel the
snow while I was waiting for my CD player to come in the mail but then
I had breakfast (cereal bars are the bomb!) and that's some cool shit
but why even bother commenting. I'll take the higher road.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Zips lip.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Good-bye.<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/devil2.gif" />&nbsp;</p>

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TheMojoPin
12-14-2005, 03:33 PM
<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font>My&nbsp; uncle was with the first units of Americans to liberate a concentration camp. Try and tell him that it's a myth. He still&nbsp;won't talk about it to this day. <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/ingacopy.jpg" border="0" />Hey! Those multi-cultural slave children, belong to the Disney Corporation!Get 'em Achmed!<p>My great uncle is the same way.&nbsp; He took hundreds of photos in Europe when he was there during WW2, including when he was involved in the liberation of one of the camps.&nbsp; He refuses to look at the photos himself, but he said he'll never get rid of them.</p>

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Bulldogcakes
12-14-2005, 04:39 PM
<p>Does anyone else find this a little desperate on the part of this
guy? I tend to think that when you're in trouble at home, you start
looking for scapegoats. </p><p>I know there is the international
trouble Iran's having with the nuclear plant, and they're getting
increasingly isolated because of it. Also, they might be worried that
Iraq might ACTUALLY WORK. Which is a worst case scenario for a
religious theocracy with most of its population under 30 to have a
democracy next door. That is, after all, what Bush has been working at
all along. </p><p>When you start feeling the heat, blame the Jews. A time honored tactic. But I dont think it will help this time around. &nbsp;</p>

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Kobe8
12-14-2005, 04:40 PM
<p><strong><font color="#ffffff" size="1"><font color="#000000">Iran's Ahmadinejad says Holocaust a myth</font> </font></strong></p><p>And so is the female orgasm.</p>

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Dirtybird12
12-14-2005, 08:41 PM
<p>Even Iran has shock jock wannabees- </p><p><img height="300" src="http://www.lanuevacuba.com/graficas/ahmadinejad-b.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

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FUNKMAN
12-14-2005, 08:44 PM
<p><strong><font color="#ffffff" size="1"><font color="#000000">Iran's Ahmadinejad says Holocaust a myth</font> </font></strong></p><p>yeah! and arabs don't stink</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/tongue.gif" border="0" />it's a joke people</p>

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PapaBear
12-14-2005, 08:53 PM
<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font><font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font>My&nbsp; uncle was with the first units of Americans to liberate a concentration camp. Try and tell him that it's a myth. He still&nbsp;won't talk about it to this day. <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/ingacopy.jpg" border="0" />Hey! Those multi-cultural slave children, belong to the Disney Corporation!Get 'em Achmed! <p>My great uncle is the same way.&nbsp; He took hundreds of photos in Europe when he was there during WW2, including when he was involved in the liberation of one of the camps.&nbsp; He refuses to look at the photos himself, but he said he'll never get rid of them.</p><p>That's really weird. My uncle also has lots of photos from the camp. There are photos of the piled up bodies and everything. Like your Great Uncle, my Uncle won't talk about it, or look at the photos, but he won't get rid of them either. Maybe it's because they knew there would be idiots in the future, that try to deny the truth.</p><p>Hey... The camp my Uncle helped liberate was Dachau. Do you happen to know which one your Great Uncle was involved with, Mojo?<br /></p>

<center><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/ingacopy.jpg"></center>
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TheMojoPin
12-15-2005, 04:48 AM
I'll ask my dad if he remembers, because off the top of my head I don't.&nbsp; It wasn't one of the &quot;famous&quot; camps, I know that much, because I didn't recognize the name when he told me...now, this was almost a good ten years ago, so maybe I'm just slipping, but I'll try and find out.

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Dancing with the women at the bar... << He knows his Claret from his Beaujolais >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."</center>

Death Metal Moe
12-15-2005, 06:00 AM
<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font><p>Maybe I hit my head this morning while I was going out to shovel the snow while I was waiting for my CD player to come in the mail but then I had breakfast (cereal bars are the bomb!) and that's some cool shit but why even bother commenting. I'll take the higher road.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Zips lip.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Good-bye.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/devil2.gif" border="0" />&nbsp;</p><img src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetmdr55.jpg" border="0" /> You can try to do that to make it look like you're smarter or whatever your little ploy but it doesn't deal with the fact that this thread was about the holocaust and you went off an a tangent.&nbsp; <br />

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badorties
12-15-2005, 07:19 AM
<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Does anyone else find this a little desperate on the part of this guy? I tend to think that when you're in trouble at home, you start looking for scapegoats. </p><p>kind of how this got started in the first place ... </p>

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Bestinshow
12-15-2005, 11:23 AM
<p>&quot;Even Iran has shock jock wannabees&quot;</p><p>I hear infinity tried to hire him to do the morning show now that Stern is gone.</p>

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Bestinshow
12-15-2005, 11:30 AM
<p><font size="1">&quot;EGAD! The rest of the world must be saying that about us cuz of Bush.&quot;</font></p><font size="1" /><font size="1"><p><font size="1">Of course! I mean after all aren't we always talking about exterminating whole races?</font></p><p>&quot;Ahmadinejad, a former Revolutionary Guardsman who was elected president in June, said in October Israel must be &quot;wiped off the map,&quot; provoking a diplomatic storm and stoking fears about Iran's nuclear ambitions.&quot;</p><p>I'm going to count that statement up to ignorance of the facts because its scary if you read that and still made that comparison.</p><p><br /></p><img src="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/gpigking/myhomepage/xxbis.gif?mtbrand=aol_us" border="0" /> I am not part of any percentage. I am the Bestinshow Kiss a Doberman Today</font>

<font color=black>This message was edited by Bestinshow on 12-15-05 @ 3:32 PM</font>

mdr55
12-15-2005, 04:56 PM
What up Moe!<img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/bye.gif" /><br />


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Death Metal Moe
12-15-2005, 05:06 PM
<p>Not much.&nbsp; </p>

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Se7en
12-15-2005, 05:16 PM
<p><strong><font size="1">Iran's Ahmadinejad says Holocaust a myth </font></strong></p><p>You know, it's nice that there's a subject that so many fucking idiots, from all different races, creeds and religions, can agree upon.</p>

Bulldogcakes
12-15-2005, 06:01 PM
<font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9px;"><br />
</font><p><img width="300" height="300" border="0" src="http://www.lanuevacuba.com/graficas/ahmadinejad-b.jpg" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;&quot;I am sorry, everybody misunderstood me. I speak with a lisp. What I said was the Holocost was a <strong>MISS</strong>ed opportunity, to exterminate all the Jews once and for all!&quot;<br />
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><a href="http://www.thecosmiccircus.com/"></a>

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Yerdaddy
12-16-2005, 06:14 AM
<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font>i really don't like the bulk of arab people. thats all. nothing really intellectual to add to the topic. just kind of getting tired of these ridiculous comments these people make on a regular basis. i'm sure someone will be quick to point out that &quot;a few bad apples shouldn't spoil the whole bunch.&quot; its just starting to look like&nbsp;way too many&nbsp;bad fucking apples. <img src="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/newportking.jpg" border="0" /> <p><br />A few bad oranges shouldn't spoil the whole bunch. Iranians aren't Arabs; they're Persians. I point that out because it's another example of how little we actually know about these people. It's one reason why stories like this get so much press - because it plays to our stereotypes and our stereotypes are almost all we have about the rest of the world; especially the Muslim world.</p><p>There is a reason why this guy would make such a comment - mainly for pandering to his base of support - the conservatives of Iran. This guy won election as a major underdog&nbsp;by mobilizing the conservatives of Iran, who, in turn, used their mosques to campaign for him. Now he's saying crazy anti-semitic shit to keep them mobilized in support of him so he doesn't have to actually do anything for the majority of Iranians. </p><p>All this is a political strategy that should look very familiar to all of us. But that's what it is: political rhetoric.</p><p>It is significant that the president of Iran is saying it, rather than the Mayor of Tehran, which he was before. Local leaders can say shit like this and it doesn't mean anything because they aren't in a position to effect foreign policy. But this guy has more impact now that he's president.</p><p>On the other hand, I don't see Iran experts - including neocon Ken Pollack - too worried about what this means about Iran's intentions. The assumption is that Iran is going to join the nuclear club in the next 5 to 10 years, and, in part, thanks to the Iraq war, there's nothing we can do about it. But they're not going to attack Israel with them, (Israel has 200 nukes more advanced than any Muslim country will ever have), or be in any way as irrational or threatening as North Korea is and will continue to be. Instead, they will use it as a political tool the same way every other nuclear country does - to gain leverage in it's affairs, to get economic and political concessions, and to add nuclear deterrance to it's security arsenal. It's not good that Iran will go nuclear - but it's not the nightmare scenerio pundits make it out to be. </p><p>And statements like these should not be considered in a vaccuum. He's probably not even reflecting the views of the majority of Iranians - I don't know how to measure opinions of the Holocaust in Iran. But Iran is, in many ways, more moderate than we in the West realize. This is one of the things Pollack has been trying to get across to us. In promoting his book last year he constantly made the point that the Iranian people have shown, in the many public opinion polls in the Muslim world, to have the most favorable opinion of the American people. Iran is a complicated mix of ancient and modern cultures, conervative and liberal religious views, a modern history of isolationism and international intrference in its affairs, theocratic totalitarian domination and democratic institutions, and many other factors. To use one event that just happens to satisfy our media's criteria for what is newsworthy as a summary of what Iran or &quot;Arabs&quot; are all about is worse than worthless. It's extremely distortive of the truth. Something we've had enough problems with in our foreign relations in recent years. It's time to snap out of this awful habit.</p>

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Se7en
12-16-2005, 07:17 AM
<p>The assumption is that Iran is going to join the nuclear club in the next 5 to 10 years, and, in part, thanks to the Iraq war, there's nothing we can do about it. </p><p>That's the CIA's line of thinking, but it's been disputed and I tend to agree with those who feel the Agency's dead wrong.&nbsp; CIA says years before Iran gets a nuke, others say it could only be a matter of months.</p>

FUNKMAN
12-16-2005, 08:24 AM
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051216/ap_on_re_as/iran_holocaust_4;_ylt=ArqvlcUX.LdHf4KwMujXeGtSw60A ;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl" target="_self">EU Threatens Sanctions Over Holocaust Flap</a>

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mendyweiss
12-16-2005, 09:56 AM
<img height="134" src="http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:wTIHPsitXxMJ:www.11iran.com/COVER.JPG" width="85" border="0" />The problem is, we can't nuke Iran because Persian women are so fuckin HOT!

I say sweeping the pockets of the Dutchman was not Mob business!

Bulldogcakes
12-16-2005, 04:47 PM
<p> </p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9px;">quote:</font><br />
<p>On the other hand, I don't see Iran experts -
including neocon Ken Pollack - too worried about what this means about
Iran's intentions. The assumption is that Iran is going to join the
nuclear club in the next 5 to 10 years, and, in part, thanks to the
Iraq war, there's nothing we can do about it. But they're not going to
attack Israel with them, (Israel has 200 nukes more advanced than any
Muslim country will ever have), or be in any way as irrational or
threatening as North Korea is and will continue to be. Instead, they
will use it as a political tool the same way every other nuclear
country does - to gain leverage in it's affairs, to get economic and
political concessions, and to add nuclear deterrance to it's security
arsenal. It's not good that Iran will go nuclear - but it's not the
nightmare scenerio pundits make it out to be.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>A few quibbles Daddy-o. &nbsp;</p><p> Source (http://www.wnyc.org/blog/lehrer/archives/000243.html)&nbsp;</p><p><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9px;">&nbsp;quote:</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p> </p>
<p>Today is the 25th anniversary of the <a href="http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/hostages.phtml">Iranian Embassy hostage crisis</a>.
A quarter-century later, relations with Iran are nearly as tense as
they were then, with large numbers of US troops deployed in Iraq and
Afghanistan, just beyond Iran's eastern and western borders.</p>


<p><a href="http://www.brook.edu/scholars/kpollack.htm">Ken Pollack</a> is a &quot;liberal hawk&quot;, an interventionist Democrat whose 2002 book <em>The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq</em> has since proved to contain many false assumptions about Iraq's weapons capabilities (for a mea culpa, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/24/magazine/24QUESTIONS.html">click here</a>). </p>


<p>On tomorrow's show, Pollack asks us to trust him again--this time on Iran. His new book, <a href="http://www.randomhouse.com/randomhouse/catalog/display.pperl?1400063159"><em>The Persian Puzzle</em></a>
suggests that Iran's hard-line regime is not about to change, shouldn't
be meddled with, and stands a good chance of developing nuclear
weapons. Should we worry? Tune in tomorrow.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p><br /><p>&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><a target="blank" href="http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/episodes/11052004"> WNYC show about Pollack's latest book &quot;Persian Puzzle&quot; </a> <br />
</p><p> </p><p>He's
not a neocon, he works for the Brookings Institute. I found his case
unpersuasive. If we have a friendly government in Iraq we'll be in a
far better position to influence Iran than if we had never invaded
Iraq. We'll have permenant military bases set up there armed to strike
Iran on a moments notice. They'll not be able to threaten anyone with
nukes because we'll take them out before they can use them, so it's an
empty threat. Why do you think Pakistan has been so helpful in our war
on terror, at great personal risk to Pervez Musharref? He has nukes,
too. Colin Powell went there and explained to him that he had no choice
other than to cooperate.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p><br />
</p>

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<font color=black>This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-16-05 @ 8:51 PM</font>

Yerdaddy
12-17-2005, 10:35 AM
<p><br />Today is the 25th anniversary of the Iranian Embassy hostage crisis. A quarter-century later, relations with Iran are nearly as tense as they were then, with large numbers of US troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, just beyond Iran's eastern and western borders.</p><p>Ken Pollack is a &quot;liberal hawk&quot;, an interventionist Democrat whose 2002 book The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq has since proved to contain many false assumptions about Iraq's weapons capabilities (for a mea culpa, click here). </p><p>On tomorrow's show, Pollack asks us to trust him again--this time on Iran. His new book, The Persian Puzzle suggests that Iran's hard-line regime is not about to change, shouldn't be meddled with, and stands a good chance of developing nuclear weapons. Should we worry? Tune in tomorrow.<br />&nbsp;</p><p><br />&nbsp;<br />&nbsp;<br />WNYC show about Pollack's latest book &quot;Persian Puzzle&quot; <br />He's not a neocon, he works for the Brookings Institute. I found his case unpersuasive. If we have a friendly government in Iraq we'll be in a far better position to influence Iran than if we had never invaded Iraq. We'll have permenant military bases set up there armed to strike Iran on a moments notice. They'll not be able to threaten anyone with nukes because we'll take them out before they can use them, so it's an empty threat. Why do you think Pakistan has been so helpful in our war on terror, at great personal risk to Pervez Musharref? He has nukes, too. Colin Powell went there and explained to him that he had no choice other than to cooperate.<br /><br />He's not a neocon. I had put him in that category when Bush was photographed carrying his book around before the war, and because I found myself screaming at the pages of his articles to address the evidence that the administration was overlooking in making the case for WMD in Iraq. He seemed to want to believe that we would find WMD. I started calling him &quot;one of the good neocons&quot; when he was the first one to say the administration was making big fucking mistakes after the fall of Baghdad. But, after reviewing his stuff more, he's not a neocon, and he's not a &quot;hawkish liberal&quot;; he's a hawkish democrat. </p><p>Anywhoo, labels aside, I do find his case pursurasive, as well as the others, from across the political spectrum, who agree we don't have good military options with Iran. Most of those <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200412/fallows" target="_blank">in this piece</a>, including David Kay &ndash; Bush's choice to find Iraqi WMD &ndash; find the military choices laughable.</p><p>In fact it sounds like the point of this radio show host seems to be to say &quot;Pollack was wrong to be a hawk in Iraq, therefore he's wrong to be a dove on Iran.&quot; What's insane about that is that he was less wrong than most other hawks on Iraq. He said there was no evidence of an Iraq/al-Qaeda link. He didn't say, like Cheney did, things like &quot;Saddam is close to developing a nuclear weapon.&quot; He also said many times before the war that there has to be planning for the reconstruction of Iraq. What's more, he was one of the first hawks to point out that the administration had no plan for security, reconstruction, and democracy in Iraq. </p><p>So, in terms of Iraq hawks, he still has more credibility than most of the others &ndash; who have been in denial about conditions in Iraq and the administration's handling of the war since the beginning of the occupation. </p><p>In terms of his arguments, first read the Atlantic piece. But also: <br /> If we have a friendly government in Iraq we'll be in a far better position to influence Iran than if we had never invaded Iraq. <br /></p><p>A &quot;friendly&quot; government that is currently dominated by SCIRI &ndash; a pro-Iranian Shia group. Iran was friendly with the Northern Alliance and strongly against the Taliban regime. When we suddenly had the common enemy, relations between Iran and the US did not improve at all, (at least publicly). I

Bulldogcakes
12-17-2005, 02:53 PM
<p> </p><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9px;">quote:</font><p> </p>Right now the biggest part of the insurgency is from the 20%
Sunnis. What Iran could do at any time they wanted to is to add an
insurgency from the 60% Shi'a as well. Basically, they could quadruple
the size of the insurgency at any time<br />I
think the reason they haven't added to the insurgency is who would they
attack? They're not going to attack their Shia buddies. American forces
are mostly in fortified bunkers, which is why US casualties have slowed
down to a trickle. They have no reason to attack anyone.<p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><font face="Verdana" style="font-size: 9px;">quote:</font><font size="1" face="verdana" color="black">they're happy to have a stable, Shi'a-dominated government that they have a great influence over next door.</font> <p>&nbsp;</p><p>As are we. Sounds to me like the basis for an aligning of interests and better relations with Iran going foward.</p><p>That,
of course is the carrot. The stick will be our military presence in
Iraq (with a quick strike, not invasion capacity). And I'd be SHOCKED
if we didn't have bases there for next 20+ years. Were still in EUROPE
for crying out loud. &nbsp;</p><p><br />
</p>

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'woof, woof.'&quot;-Norm MacDonald

<font color=black>This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 12-17-05 @ 6:57 PM</font>

TheMojoPin
12-17-2005, 05:11 PM
The countries we still have bases in had governments that wanted or still want us there.&nbsp; Politicians in Iraq weon't have much of a political life or an actual life if they strongly push for a continued US military presence.

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newport king
12-17-2005, 06:40 PM
<p>there's alot of interesting point/counterpoint debates going on here. i however lose interest in a post after the 10th line or so. so in response to this:</p><p>Iranians aren't Arabs; they're Persians. </p><p>i say this...oh...ok. whatever the'yre darker than me and practice a crazy religion thats different than mine. so to borrow from norton..they stink and i don't like em.</p>

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newport king
12-17-2005, 06:44 PM
and i'm pretty sure anyone that read my post knew i meant muslim...sorry. i didn't want to offend. i don't care that they don't speak arabic in iran.

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HBox
12-17-2005, 06:47 PM
Those dirty hindus WERE pretty offended to be lumped in with the even dirtier Muslims.<br />

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A.J.
12-17-2005, 08:32 PM
<p>We'll have permenant military bases set up there armed to <strong>strike</strong> Iran on a moments notice.</p><p>What Mojo and Yerdaddy said: U.S. bases in Iraq won't fly with the locals.&nbsp; Remember our bases in Saudi Arabia?&nbsp; That didn't go over well.</p><p>Anyway, we already have bases in Afghanistan, Bahrain and Qatar...from which to <em>monitor </em>Iran.</p>

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Bulldogcakes
12-18-2005, 05:15 AM
<p>Not with the Shia or Sunni's maybe I'll buy, although despite what
many are saying I think it will be in their interests to have us
guarentee security. Especially given the regional factions and the
possibilty of civil war. Our continuing military presence can help to
hold that country together. Also, dont forget its usually a pretty good
deal for the host nation. The military presence we provide is one less
thing they have to spend $ on, and for a 3rd world leader one of their
biggest fears is a military coup. We take that off the table.&nbsp; <br />
</p><p>But even if you guys are right about the Shia and Sunni's, do you think an American presence wont fly with the Kurds? Why not?<br />
</p>

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TheMojoPin
12-18-2005, 05:41 AM
You have to consider the larger rammifications of having US military forces staged in the Middle East.&nbsp; Al-Queda has expressly stated over and over again the reason they've struck at the US is because of our presence in and dealings with Saudi Arabia, namely the military forces staged there.&nbsp; Doing the same in Iraq just adds more fuel to THAT fire, along with actually encouraging instability in the region.&nbsp; Our troops there makes them targets for nonstop attacks, and gives terrorist groups and easy cause and target to rally around.&nbsp; The only way we can make this work is if the Iraqis can be prepared to secure their country on their own, and we're out ASAP.&nbsp; Otherwise, yes, you'll have forces in place against countries like Iran, but the larger supposed goal of &quot;the war on terror&quot; would be pissed on left and right, and nothing would be accomplished in that regard.

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high fly
12-18-2005, 10:07 AM
<p>Of course you are correct, Mojo.</p><p>In all that's bee written, it is clear that al Qaeda became a terrorist organization when&nbsp;bin Laden saw what he and others believe is an apostate, corrupt regime bring&nbsp;Christian troops onto the most sacred Muslim land, in order to fight a war against the ruler of Islam's second-most holy land.</p><p>This was in direct contravention of Muhammed's injunction on his deathbed that only one religion be permitted in Arabia.</p><p>We are now seen as the source and scapegoat for all they see wrong in their corner of the world. Not only because we have troops there who regularly kill their fellow Muslims, but also because we support corrupt, oppressive regimes that do not serve the people.</p><p>Not only that, but&nbsp;we support others who they see as oppressing Muslims, mainly China, India, Russia, and of course, Israel.</p><p>A careful reading of what bin Laden and other jihadist have said, taken as a whole, make it clear that what animates them is what <em>we DO</em>, rather than who <em>we ARE.</em></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I suggest those interested read&nbsp;&nbsp;DYING TO WIN, by Robert Pape, </p><p>THE NEXT ATTACK and THE AGE OF SACRED TERROR, by Daniel Benjamin and Steve Simon,</p><p>IMPERIAL HUBRIS,&nbsp; by Anonymous (Michael Schreur)</p><p>GHOST WARS, by Steve Coll</p><p>TERROR INC. by Peter Bergen</p><p>INSIDE AL QAEDA: GLOBAL NETWORK OF TERROR, by Rohan Gunaratna.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><em>&quot; ...and they ask me why I drink&quot; <img src="http://64.177.177.182/katylina/highflysig.jpg" border="0" /> Big ups to sex bomb baby Katylina (LHOOQ) for the sig!</em>

<font color=black>This message was edited by high fly on 12-18-05 @ 2:08 PM</font>

A.J.
12-18-2005, 10:54 PM
<p>This was in direct contravention of Muhammed's injunction on his deathbed that only one religion be permitted in Arabia.</p><p>It's important to remember though that Christians and Jews lived in Arabia at that time and even provided support to the Prophet Muhammad during his early days.&nbsp; And...</p><p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt">Despite theological disagreements and political disputes, Muhammad remained respectful of both faiths. A few years before he died, when his leadership of the Arabs was generally accepted, a delegation of sixty Christians with scholars and judges among them arrived in Medina from the southern capitol of Najran. In a kind of interfaith council rare in those days, Muslims and Christians, joined by Medina's Jewish rabbis, sat together discussing and arguing the meaning of their beliefs.</span></p><p>See: <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'times new roman'; mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-fareast-language: en-us; mso-bidi-language: ar-sa"><a href="http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_otherrel.shtml"><font color="#606420">http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_otherrel.shtml</font></a></span></p>

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FUNKMAN
01-15-2006, 07:57 PM
<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/15/iran.holocaust/index.html" target="_self">Iran plans Holocaust conference</a></p><p>He added, &quot;The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews</p>

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bobrobot
01-15-2006, 09:49 PM
<p><strong><font color="#000099">Gee, where do I sign up for this conference? I bet they'll put me at the head table! Well they'll put my head there anyway...</font></strong></p><p><img title="Monkees' Head" height="400" alt="Monkees' Head" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/HEAD.jpg" width="257" border="0" /></p>

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SatCam
01-15-2006, 10:04 PM
<p><font size="0" face="verdana" color="black"><strong><font color="#000099">I bet they'll put me at the head table! Well they'll put my head there anyway...</font></strong></font></p><p>But the question is, do you give good head?&nbsp; Those guys are desperate...&nbsp;</p>

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LiquidCourage
01-15-2006, 10:56 PM
<font style="font-size: 9px" face="Verdana">quote: </font>i really don't like the bulk of arab people. thats all. nothing really intellectual to add to the topic. just kind of getting tired of these ridiculous comments these people make on a regular basis. i'm sure someone will be quick to point out that &quot;a few bad apples shouldn't spoil the whole bunch.&quot; its just starting to look like&nbsp;way too many&nbsp;bad fucking apples. <img src="http://hometown.aol.com/bonedaddy5/images/newportking.jpg" border="0" /> <br />Not that I'm the PC type, but Iranians are NOT Arabs.&nbsp; Different ethnic group altogether.

high fly
01-16-2006, 01:15 PM
<p>With Iran's nuke developement, the Texas Einstein has sure got out teat in a wringer.</p><p>Keep in mind the situation in Iraq. There we have our hands full with the insurrection coming mainly from the recently organized underground insurgency by mostly Sunni Iraqis.</p><p>The Shiite majority, which is twice as large as the Sunnis, and who have a better, longer organized underground, with close ties to Iran, are quiet.</p><p>For the moment.</p><p>The minute we move into Iran, we goan have them Iraqi Shiites in our rear going apeshit.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><br /></p>

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