What's The Deal With Ayn Rand? [Archive]

Gvac

01-06-2006, 06:09 PM

I've been making an effort to read more fiction lately, and a friend's wife insisted on lending me "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.

I've heard various things about her philosophies and how they're injected into her novels, and I'm just wondering if I should bother reading this book. The damn thing's thicker than the Bible, and I lose interest quickly if the pace isn't lively.

Anyone have any opinions and/or suggestions?

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HBox

01-06-2006, 06:13 PM

I've never read her stuff, but her ideology is knida like extreme libertarianism. Like, if everyone just looks out for themselves, everything will work out. And by look out for themselves, I mean to an extreme degree. Like selfishness=good.When i hear Ayn Rand I always think about that South Park episode where the Sheriff learns who to read, and then the first book he reads is Atlas Shrugged, and he says it sucks ass and is the worst thing ever written. Funny stuff. 

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Death Metal Moe

01-06-2006, 06:50 PM

quote: When i hear Ayn Rand I always think about that South Park episode where the Sheriff learns who to read, and then the first book he reads is Atlas Shrugged, and he says it sucks ass and is the worst thing ever written. Funny stuff. <img src="http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4544/newsig2ki.jpg" border="0" /> Bingo.

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DTN

Recyclerz

01-06-2006, 07:19 PM

quote: I've never read her stuff, but her ideology is knida like extreme libertarianism. Like, if everyone just looks out for themselves, everything will work out. And by look out for themselves, I mean to an extreme degree. Like selfishness=good.  H-box's thumbnail summary is a good one.  Her philosophy is called Objectivism and, just to flesh out H-box's summary a little more, goes something like this: Reality is what it is; you have to reject what everybody else tells you it is and be brave enough to find out what it is and to embrace both the good and bad of it.  You're responsible for your own happiness and success and helping others ultimately only weakens them by sheltering them and giving them an excuse "not to grow up".  For those of you who had a taste of those Contemporary Civilization classes in school, think of her as a combination of Plato and social darwinism.  She is also very anti-religion, for the reasons stated above.  Her biographers make a point of her liking to make the beast with two backs A LOT, so she couldn't have been all bad. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wink.gif" border="0" />I read The Fountainhead and then Atlas Shrugged.  I think the Fountainhead is the better starting point (somewhat shorter and somewhat less overt ideology) but, even though I disagree with 95% of what she says, I think either book is worth reading, if only to give yourself a taste of where the philosophy of the current ruling class comes from.  The characters in the books are a little cartoon like by, say,  F. Scott Fitzgerald's standards, but if you can deal with the characters being vehicles for ideas rather than real people you can get through them.The only real problem I have with her is that her books have encouraged a whole army of Republican twits to see themselves as the heroes in her books and argue for getting rid of the welfare state and for an agressive form of laisse faire capitalism, while they're living off their family's trust funds.Gvac, if I recall your political posts correctly I think you'll probably enjoy either of the books.  Just promise us you won't sign up for the twit army once you do.<img src="http://www.hometown.aol.com/recyclerz/myhomepage/sigpic1.gif?mtbrand=AOL_US" border="0" /> There ain't no asylum here. King Solomon, he never lived 'round here

This message was edited by Recyclerz on 1-6-06 @ 11:21 PM

torker

01-06-2006, 07:29 PM

but if you can deal with the characters being vehicles Like Speed Buggy?<img height="279" src="http://www.ransackery.com/uploaded_images/TW1136-Speed-Buggy.jpg" width="400" border="0" />

[center]<IMG SRC=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/torker1313/andretork.jpg>[center]

[i][center]Take my soul to the lost and found[center][i]

Death Metal Moe

01-06-2006, 07:32 PM

<img height="480" src="http://www.clubvw.org.au/images/herbie_Mvc-023s.jpg" width="640" border="0" />

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DTN

TheMojoPin

01-06-2006, 07:48 PM

As a philosopher/political theorist, she's pretty interesting.As a novelist, she's absolutely wretched.

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Dancing with the women at the bar... << He knows his Claret from his Beaujolais >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."</center>

Captain Stubing

01-06-2006, 08:09 PM

Recyclerz I like your summary.However, I kept reading and stumbled upon this:"...her books have encouraged a whole army of Republican twits to see themselves as the heroes in her books and argue for getting rid of the welfare state and for an agressive form of laisse faire capitalism..."I'm not sure who exactly you are referring to but, I have to say, I wouldn't put Rand as one of the major influences on modern conservative Republican ideology.  Adam Smith, sure (invisible hand and all), Burke, Kirk, Hayek and Mises, Buckley, etcetc.  But Rand?If anything, I would say the conservative Republican movement is too statist to be considered 'Randian'.

Kindest Regards, Your Name

Gvac

01-06-2006, 08:11 PM

Gvac, if I recall your political posts correctly I think you'll probably enjoy either of the books. Just promise us you won't sign up for the twit army once you do.

Recyclerz, if you accurately described her positions and beliefs, then I'm not too sure I'd enjoy the books.

My political ideas are based largely on my belief that people, not government, are what makes a society great. Blue-blood Republicans are as revulsive to me as socialistic Democrats.

I suppose the Tao Te Ching most accurately describes the way I feel people should be governed -

"The more prohibitions there are, the poorer people become.
The more laws there are, the greater the number of scoundrels.

Therefore the sage says,
I take no action, and people transform themselves.
I love tranquility, and people naturally do what is right.
I don't interfere, and people prosper on their own."

Also,

"When the government is dull and sleepy, the people are wholesome and good.
When the government is sharp and exacting, the people are cunning and mean."

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c34/Gvac/ronfezsig.jpg

TheMojoPin

01-06-2006, 08:19 PM

This might be right up your alley.  She definitely champions the individual, in terms of rights or abilities or accomplishments, uber alles.Just like I said, don't expect a very good novel.  The pace is about as far from lively as you can get.<img src="http://scripts.cgispy.com/image.cgi?u=TheMojoPin" border="0" /> Dancing with the women at the bar... << He knows his Claret from his Beaujolais >> "You can tell some lies about the good times we've had, but I've kissed your mother twice...and now I'm working on your dad..."

This message was edited by TheMojoPin on 1-7-06 @ 12:20 AM

Gvac

01-06-2006, 08:25 PM

OK, now I'm really confused so I guess I'll have to read the damned book.

And for the record, I'm all for helping those who need help. Acting humanely is, after all, what makes us human.

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Mike Teacher

01-06-2006, 08:28 PM

"...her books have encouraged a whole army of Republican twits to see themselves as the heroes in her books and argue for getting rid of the welfare state and for an agressive form of laisse faire capitalism..."=Arguably the biggest group of twits the Rand movement had was the followers of Rand. She became a cult figure and her followers argued themselves into fractured groups, each claiming to know what she 'really' meant by Objectivism after her death.The ideas of Fountainhead and Shrugged are ok, but the reading is dense, denser then Tom Robbins, you spend a day figuring out what the paragraph really means. I never went beyond those two.=The NY Times Book review once did an article on the greatest seling books no one has ever read and this was on the list, along with Brief History of Time by Hawking and some others. The sales figures are gargantuan, but few take the time to get into it, takes up a lot of energy to plow through figuring out who is John Galt. 

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PapaBear

01-06-2006, 08:43 PM

I liked the Ayn Rand daycare center that Maggie was forced into, on the Simpsons.

<center><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/snowmaninva66/ingacopy.jpg"></center>
<center>Hey! Those multi-cultural slave children, belong to the Disney Corporation!</center><center>Get 'em Achmed!</center>

suggums

01-06-2006, 08:44 PM

quote: The NY Times Book review once did an article on the greatest seling books no one has ever read and this was on the list, along with Brief History of Time by Hawking and some others. The sales figures are gargantuan, but few take the time to get into it, takes up a lot of energy to plow through figuring out who is John Galt. 

 Throw The Name of the Rose and Gravity's Rainbow on that list. 

<img src="http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4237/suggumskilgore5id.jpg">

PapaBear

01-06-2006, 09:05 PM

quote: quote: The NY Times Book review once did an article on the greatest seling books no one has ever read and this was on the list, along with Brief History of Time by Hawking and some others. The sales figures are gargantuan, but few take the time to get into it, takes up a lot of energy to plow through figuring out who is John Galt. Throw The Name of the Rose and Gravity's Rainbow on that list. <img src="http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4237/suggumskilgore5id.jpg" border="0" /> I bet the Bible is high on the list, too. 

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<center>Hey! Those multi-cultural slave children, belong to the Disney Corporation!</center><center>Get 'em Achmed!</center>

HBox

01-06-2006, 09:19 PM

After thinking about it, I think I even gave libertarians a bad name by using thme as a descriptions. Even libertarians aren't against charity, they just want it done completely independently and by choice, not by government. Rand's idea is that any kind of helping people only hurts yourself and the person you are helping, an idea that shot down in about 5 minutes of living in the real world.EDIT: On yeah, in reading a review of the book I found out a tidbit of information that should give you an idea of what you'd be getting yourself into. One characted has a speech in Atlas Shrugged has a speech that goes on for 60 pages. I don't think that's an exaggeration either because the reviewer who saidthat still liked the book. 

<img border="0" src="http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4544/newsig2ki.jpg" />

This message was edited by HBox on 1-7-06 @ 1:21 AM

legroommusic

01-06-2006, 09:41 PM

I never bothered reading it either. let's make a book club. I'll read it and you read it and some other people will read it on the board and then tear into it in the end.whaddayasay?

Greggie44

01-06-2006, 11:11 PM

quote: I'm not sure who exactly you are referring to but, I have to say, I wouldn't put Rand as one of the major influences on modern conservative Republican ideology.  Adam Smith, sure (invisible hand and all), Burke, Kirk, Hayek and Mises, Buckley, etcetc.  They only use Adam Smith and a pure market as a reference in how to manipulate and control markets.  I'm not a bad person, I just do bad things.

This message was edited by Greggie44 on 1-7-06 @ 3:23 AM

Yerdaddy

01-07-2006, 02:15 AM

Gvac, if I recall your political posts correctly I think you'll probably enjoy either of the books. Just promise us you won't sign up for the twit army once you do.Ouch! No, I think GVac's too much a traditional republican to buy into social darwinist theory. The fact that the word "socialist" seems to be a prefix for the word "democrats" makes him seem a bit harsh, but he's old-school principle-based conservative, in my opinion. But he's actually capable of asking the question: "Don't the "weaker" beings actually have to die en masse for natural selection to work?" I put Rand in a category with L. Ron Hubbard and Noam Chomsky, (although the three are very different in most ways), in that they have a theory of everything political. They try to do for politics what Enstein tried to do at the end of his career for science: come up with one sweeping theory, or model, for everything science, (I'm seriously overgeneralizing this, arent I Mike T?). Problem is, Enstein worked in hard science, and his failure was evident to himself and his colleagues. But politics is soft social science, and whether you're right or wrong usually depends merely on how many people you can convince that you are correct. I think that's a sad but true fact of politics in general. But, like Chomsky, there's something of value within what Rand has to say; it's just that she's asking you to take her ideas as the sum of human interaction. Instead of asking us questions about the motives of generosity and selfishness, she's saying "this is the way we are. There's no more to it." She's also doing what all ideologies do and saying "all you need is me and my ideas. Reject all others." But in practice, her narrow theories about society can only lead to some form of either fascism or anarchy. As a code of conduct, she's really fucking scary.Instead, GVac, I'd suggest you read Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court". On religion, you two may not see eye-to-eye, but on the role of government and personal freedom, you are going to love this book.  And it's funny as fucking hell! Anyone ever accused Rand of that? She's more like Marge Schott riding the cotton pony.

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Fuck it from behind!

Mike Teacher

01-07-2006, 03:49 AM

They try to do for politics what Enstein tried to do at the end of his career for science: come up with one sweeping theory, or model, for everything science, (I'm seriously overgeneralizing this, arent I Mike T?). Problem is, Enstein worked in hard science, and his failure was evident to himself and his colleagues. =Any discussion of Einsteins mind will be overgeneralized [is that a word, who cares, i like it] but yep, he struggled to reconcile what his stuff said to the universe at large, and much of it doesnt reconcile, and never has. One example; he liked the steady-state theory for the universe, it aint steady.  He also didnt like the 'chance' behavior that we now know exists in nature, saying 'God does not play dice' but it looks like whatever God is out there is def rolling the bones. Failure is perhaps too strong a word for a guy who had an annus miribilis like Newton did. Science has a hope of a Theory of Everything [ToE], or a Grand Unification Theory [GUT], strictly this is bringing the four known forces at work [Gravity, Electromagnetism, the Strong and Weak nuclear forces] into one, and this has frustrated science since they knew these existed.

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DarkHippie

01-07-2006, 10:01 AM

Rand's writing is horrible.  I'd rather read Joyce in Cantonese than suffer through another Rand book.In general, i prefer a straight forward, character driven novel.  Don't bog me down with philosophy or dainty, superfluous word play.  A turd sprayed with perfume is just a flowery turd.

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TheRealEddie

01-07-2006, 10:08 AM

I had just read The Fountainhead for high school when I saw this 
 <img width="320" height="240" border="0" src="http://simpsonloft.com/pjaunes/albums/50/aynrand.jpg" />I actually liked the Fountanhead alot. I considered reading another Rand novel...considered... 
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This message was edited by TheRealEddie on 1-7-06 @ 2:10 PM

ShelleBink

01-12-2006, 05:38 AM

Eh, give "Anthem" a shot... it was pretty short and I had to read it for high school.  It wasn't terrible... 

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bobrobot

01-12-2006, 05:57 AM

<img height="267" src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004TDUG.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg" width="300" border="0" />

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By blood a king, in heart a clown.
Alfred Lord Tennyson

Freakshow

01-12-2006, 09:18 AM

More like:<img height="159" src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000001ESB.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg" width="160" border="0" />Neal Peart is one of the more famous followers of Ayn Rand.  Him and Alan Greenspan.

<center><img src=http://www.christpuncherrecords.com/sigs/answer.gif> We
don't need a cure we
need a final solution</
center>

furie

01-12-2006, 01:29 PM

quote:More like:<img width="160" height="159" border="0" src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000001ESB.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg" />Neal Peart is one of the more famous followers of Ayn Rand. Him and Alan Greenspan.

<img border="0" src="http://www.christpuncherrecords.com/sigs/answer.gif" /> We
don't need a cure we
need a final solution*--
center-* beat me to it. actually 2112 is based loosely on Rand's book Anthem. her writing style is a but cumbersome, but worth a read. I never read atlas shrugged, but i liked anthem and fountainhead. 

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This message was edited by furie on 1-12-06 @ 5:31 PM

Coach

01-12-2006, 09:55 PM

Personally, I prefer Neil Gaiman's books:American Gods andGood OmensFucking Brilliant and comical!I threw the former against the wall in disbelief at my stupidity for not "seeing it" at the end! If I wanted to hear you moan, I would've Fucked You!

This message was edited by Coach on 1-13-06 @ 1:57 AM

GregoryJoseph

11-04-2009, 01:34 PM

I've still never been able to finish either "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountainhead."

I know Bob Impact is a big fan of hers.

Anyone else?

Besides Scotty Too Hottie, that is.

foodcourtdruide

11-04-2009, 01:57 PM

I've still never been able to finish either "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountainhead."

I know Bob Impact is a big fan of hers.

Anyone else?

Besides Scotty Too Hottie, that is.

Did Scotty say he was a fan of her today??? I hadn't heard it, and I was just speculating about it in the listening thread.

mikeyboy

11-04-2009, 01:59 PM

Did Scotty say he was a fan of her today??? I hadn't heard it, and I was just speculating about it in the listening thread.

He did.

foodcourtdruide

11-04-2009, 02:03 PM

He did.

Omg, I knew it!!!! I can always tell when someone has read that book within the last few months. For a few more months he'll be an objectivist and within a year he'll call himself a libertarian.

Serpico1103

11-04-2009, 02:08 PM

I read and liked "Fountainhead", but I am not a fan of her ideology.
I also saw the movie, starring Gary Cooper, that was bearable.

keithy_19

11-04-2009, 03:58 PM

I got through about two chapters of Atlas Shrugged and stopped. I had a lot of reading to do for school and didn't really have the time to pick it up again. It is definately a mundane read.

furie

11-04-2009, 05:03 PM

I got through about two chapters of Atlas Shrugged and stopped. I had a lot of reading to do for school and didn't really have the time to pick it up again. It is definately a mundane read.

try the fountainhead

sailor

11-04-2009, 05:21 PM

i enjoyed anthem. haven't read anything else.

beachbum

11-04-2009, 05:29 PM

Recyclerz, if you accurately described her positions and beliefs, then I'm not too sure I'd enjoy the books.

My political ideas are based largely on my belief that people, not government, are what makes a society great. Blue-blood Republicans are as revulsive to me as socialistic Democrats.

I suppose the Tao Te Ching most accurately describes the way I feel people should be governed -

"The more prohibitions there are, the poorer people become.
The more laws there are, the greater the number of scoundrels.

Therefore the sage says,
I take no action, and people transform themselves.
I love tranquility, and people naturally do what is right.
I don't interfere, and people prosper on their own."

Also,

"When the government is dull and sleepy, the people are wholesome and good.
When the government is sharp and exacting, the people are cunning and mean."

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c34/Gvac/ronfezsig.jpg

To hell with Ayn Rand I have to read Tao Te Ching.

Serpico1103

11-04-2009, 05:41 PM

Therefore the sage says,
I take no action, and people transform themselves.
I love tranquility, and people naturally do what is right.
I don't interfere, and people prosper on their own."

Awww, that is so cute. The lil sage is so innocent and naive.

meanmrbill

11-04-2009, 05:47 PM

I got through about two chapters of Atlas Shrugged and stopped. I had a lot of reading to do for school and didn't really have the time to pick it up again. It is definately a mundane read.
It is best that you don't finish it.

Dude!

11-04-2009, 05:49 PM

one thing about 'objectivism'
that appeals to me is its
approach to making judgements
about people as individuals
and not parts of groups

something like: if there is even one
black man in the world who is smarter
than you, then you can't assume you are
smarter than any black man you meet on the street,
as he may be the one who is smarter than you

you evaluate him on your interaction,
not on preconceived notions

KC2OSO

11-04-2009, 06:41 PM

...

Recyclerz

11-04-2009, 08:44 PM

Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2233966/)

Pretty good summary of her life & ideas, written by someone who is not really a fan but doesn't do a pure hit job.

Bob Impact

11-04-2009, 09:29 PM

I've still never been able to finish either "Atlas Shrugged" or "The Fountainhead."

I know Bob Impact is a big fan of hers.

Anyone else?

Besides Scotty Too Hottie, that is.
PM me boss, I've got piles of books to lend, I STILL think you would enjoy her work on an intellectual level, perhaps check out The Romantic Manifesto, which is about her philosophy on art.

I am a fan of hers, I tend to not talk about it much because I'm sick of having the same arguments over and over again but I can't sleep tonight so and one of the guys at work told me that someone on the show brought her up today so i went to the listening thread to check it out and ended up sending out some odd PMs to people discussing points they made 12 hours before then saw this thread.

I fully intended to write about what her philosophy is about but I'm running out of steam so I'll say that I'm willing to answer any questions about it, and to say that I do credit her philosophy with a very large percentage of my happiness today. Living the way that I do is easy and joyous because I feel truly free to enjoy every single moment I have, be it at work, at home, anywhere. Critics of Rand, and even some of her fans, paint her with a very dark brush because she wrote in such a blunt style, but when you get to the meat of Objectivist philosophy it's very much a peaceful way to live.

Omg, I knew it!!!! I can always tell when someone has read that book within the last few months. For a few more months he'll be an objectivist and within a year he'll call himself a libertarian.
On the back of the Daily Show book theres a quote that goes something like "This book is similar to my work in that anyone who reads it will act like an asshole for a month afterwards. - Ayn Rand." Always made me giggle. Also, I love the people who go from objectivism to libertarianism, Rand was most assuredly not a fan of libertarians.

Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2233966/)

Pretty good summary of her life & ideas, written by someone who is not really a fan but doesn't do a pure hit job.
The author calls her a drug addict in the first sentence. Unfortunately as Rand is such a polarizing figure it's difficult to get biographical information on her that isn't written from hatred or fanboyism. The best example of Rand I could find is this old Donahue episode from the 70s featuring an interview with her, near the end you even get to see some Ayn Rand emotion, which some people claim didn't exist...
Starts here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzGFytGBDN8

Recyclerz

11-04-2009, 09:38 PM

The author calls her a drug addict in the first sentence.

Don't make you (her) a bad person. :wink:

Dude!

11-04-2009, 09:41 PM

Don't make you (her) a bad person. :wink:

how about the fact
that she was a jew?

HBox

11-04-2009, 10:15 PM

how about the fact
that she was a jew?

Christ killing don't make you a bad person.

happytypinggirl

11-05-2009, 10:55 AM

I've been making an effort to read more fiction lately, and a friend's wife insisted on lending me "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.

I've heard various things about her philosophies and how they're injected into her novels, and I'm just wondering if I should bother reading this book. The damn thing's thicker than the Bible, and I lose interest quickly if the pace isn't lively.

Anyone have any opinions and/or suggestions?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c34/Gvac/ronfezsig.jpg

im reading it now and not sure its for me but i read her other gigantic book-- the fountainhead and found it beyond worth the time and effort. loved it. im no disciple, but it was a great book.

Dell

11-05-2009, 11:28 AM

im reading it now and not sure its for me but i read her other gigantic book-- the fountainhead and found it beyond worth the time and effort. loved it. im no disciple, but it was a great book.

agree with you...thought fountainhead was a great read and made some great points but I don't see the world black and white enough to become a disciple...

Bob Impact

11-05-2009, 02:20 PM

agree with you...thought fountainhead was a great read and made some great points but I don't see the world black and white enough to become a disciple...

The idea (to me) of Rand's stuff is that you shouldn't believe everything she says... you need to find your own path to happiness, through whatever means you have available, some ways are just more moral than others.

For the books, my personal favorite is Atlas Shrugged but I grant that Fountainhead is a far more enjoyable read... Atlas Shrugged has a tendency towards repetition thats less prevolent in Fountainhead, primarily because Atlas Shrugged is much more of a philosophy book than Fountainhead. Also, she repeats phrases to a ridiculous degree in Atlas Shrugged, if I read "She inclined her head." one more time I may just lose it.

midwestjeff

11-05-2009, 03:50 PM

She inclined her head.

Bob Impact

11-05-2009, 03:56 PM

She inclined her head.

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYARRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

GregoryJoseph

11-05-2009, 07:50 PM

Maybe I'll try Fountainhead.

I'll never even attempt "Atlas" again.

epo

11-05-2009, 07:56 PM

Maybe I'll try Fountainhead.

I'll never even attempt "Atlas" again.

Good luck reading that dogshit!

keithy_19

11-05-2009, 10:44 PM

The idea (to me) of Rand's stuff is that you shouldn't believe everything she says... you need to find your own path to happiness, through whatever means you have available, some ways are just more moral than others.

I feel that if you just blindly follow what she says she wouldn't like you much.

Ponyboy

11-06-2009, 06:25 AM

the only reason for having that book is for sitting in a Starbucks and trying to pick up psuedo-intellectual chicks!

Serpico1103

11-06-2009, 12:46 PM

the only reason for having any book is for sitting in a Starbucks and trying to pick up psuedo-intellectual chicks!

Fixed.

Balls McGrunt

11-06-2009, 01:36 PM

I hate Starbucks

Ponyboy

11-06-2009, 01:38 PM

Fixed.

Thanks, my mistake!

yojimbo7248

11-06-2009, 01:40 PM

Good luck reading that dogshit!

I read all of Atlas Shrugged - pompous, simplistic, annoying political rants told by two-dimensional characters, strung together and trying to pass as a novel.

KnoxHarrington

11-06-2009, 02:24 PM

Here's the clip from South Park referred to earlier:

<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:150385" width="480" height="400" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" flashVars="autoPlay=false&dist=www.southparkstudios.com&orig=" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" allownetworking="all" bgcolor="#000000"></embed>

yojimbo7248

11-06-2009, 02:27 PM

Here's the clip from South Park referred to earlier

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::

underdog

11-06-2009, 02:32 PM

Here's the clip from South Park referred to earlier:

<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:150385" width="480" height="400" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" flashVars="autoPlay=false&dist=www.southparkstudios.com&orig=" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" allownetworking="all" bgcolor="#000000"></embed>

I forgot how weird old South Parks were compared to the new ones.

keithy_19

11-06-2009, 05:31 PM

I forgot how weird old South Parks were compared to the new ones.

Wow. i really agree with that sentiment.

TheMojoPin

11-06-2009, 09:33 PM

Is "weird" code for "better?" Nowadays the entire episode would basically just be the creator's ranting about Ayn Rand through the cartoon and nothing else.

Bob Impact

11-07-2009, 05:01 AM

Is "weird" code for "better?" Nowadays the entire episode would basically just be the creator's ranting about Ayn Rand through the cartoon and nothing else.

^
I got sick of "Matt and Trey take the piss out of X" every week.

yojimbo7248

11-07-2009, 05:03 AM

^
I got sick of "Matt and Trey take the piss out of X" every week.

same here. seeing an old South Park clip made me remember when I liked the show.

underdog

11-07-2009, 06:04 AM

Is "weird" code for "better?" Nowadays the entire episode would basically just be the creator's ranting about Ayn Rand through the cartoon and nothing else.

I love the new South Parks. I just used weird to describe the animation and voices. I forgot what Cartmen used to sound like.

IMSlacker

11-07-2009, 08:01 AM

Who are these people?

(miss seinfez)

GregoryJoseph

11-07-2009, 11:33 AM

I went to a block garage sale today that my friends were participating in.

I sold a bunch of stuff myself.

I had to laugh when I saw a copy of "The Fountainhead" for sale there.

I almost picked it up.

TheMojoPin

11-07-2009, 11:37 AM

I went to a block garage sale today that my friends were participating in.

I sold a bunch of stuff myself.

I had to laugh when I saw a copy of "The Fountainhead" for sale there.

I almost picked it up.

But your dainty, wimpy T-Rex arms kept you from doing so?

GregoryJoseph

11-07-2009, 11:40 AM

But your dainty, wimpy T-Rex arms kept you from doing so?

I made over a hundred bucks and didn't want to part with a single dollar of it.

Well, that's a lie.

I picked up a brand new, never opened, still in the box XM Inno2 for $25.

tanless1

11-07-2009, 12:10 PM

Very sweet !!!

Serpico1103

11-07-2009, 12:22 PM

I went to a block garage sale today that my friends were participating in.
I sold a bunch of stuff myself.
I had to laugh when I saw a copy of "The Fountainhead" for sale there.
I almost picked it up.

I was wondering who the guy with the "Wolf shirts- 5 for $20" sign was.

TheMojoPin

11-07-2009, 12:56 PM

I made over a hundred bucks and didn't want to part with a single dollar of it.

Well, that's a lie.

I picked up a brand new, never opened, still in the box XM Inno2 for $25.

That's a lie that eats up 25% of your truth.

I'll never trust you one fourth of the time ever again.

Reephdweller

11-08-2009, 05:26 AM

I wasn't a big fan of Atlas Shrugged, it had it's parts that I enjoyed but overall I thought it was not great writing.

I've never read Fountainhead but I have heard many good things about it, I may have to give it a try one of these days.

I still want to know though..Who the FUCK is John Galt??

sailor

11-08-2009, 06:42 AM

despite anything she has said to denounce them, i think the little bit of rand i've read sounds just like the few libertarians i've known.

SatCam

11-08-2009, 07:16 AM

I made over a hundred bucks and didn't want to part with a single dollar of it.

damn straight. that's a carton of cigs right there

booster11373

11-08-2009, 07:23 AM

Everything I know about Ayn Rand I learned playing Bioshock

Bob Impact

11-10-2009, 02:08 PM

despite anything she has said to denounce them, i think the little bit of rand i've read sounds just like the few libertarians i've known.

She wasn't a big fan of libertarians, the basic split is with anarchism vs. limited government... I won't go into the details but she was particularly vicious towards them, link: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_campus_libertarians

Q: Why don’t you approve of the Libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works? [FHF: “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981]

AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

SatCam

11-10-2009, 02:25 PM

She wasn't a big fan of libertarians, the basic split is with anarchism vs. limited government... I won't go into the details but she was particularly vicious towards them, link: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_campus_libertarians

Q: Why don’t you approve of the Libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works? [FHF: “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981]

AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

bitter old cunt

HBox

11-10-2009, 02:32 PM

Everything I know about Ayn Rand I learned playing Bioshock

The chief reason I am not into objectivism is that I don't want to end up in a destroyed city under the sea and clearly that's where it always ends up.

Bob Impact

11-10-2009, 02:51 PM

The chief reason I am not into objectivism is that I don't want to end up in a destroyed city under the sea and clearly that's where it always ends up.

It's either there or on a flaming oil derrick somewhere in the pacific ocean.

sailor

11-10-2009, 02:55 PM

She wasn't a big fan of libertarians, the basic split is with anarchism vs. limited government... I won't go into the details but she was particularly vicious towards them, link: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_campus_libertarians

Q: Why don’t you approve of the Libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works? [FHF: “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981]

AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

i'd read that before, but it doesn't tell much beyond name calling.

Bob Impact

11-10-2009, 03:08 PM

i'd read that before, but it doesn't tell much beyond name calling.

"Anarchy, as a political concept, is a naive floating abstraction: . . . a society without an organized government would be at the mercy of the first criminal who came along and who would precipitate it into the chaos of gang warfare. But the possibility of human immorality is not the only objection to anarchy: even a society whose every member were fully rational and faultlessly moral, could not function in a state of anarchy; it is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government." - From The Virtue of Selfishness

KnoxHarrington

11-10-2009, 03:22 PM

The chief reason I am not into objectivism is that I don't want to end up in a destroyed city under the sea and clearly that's where it always ends up.

Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

"No!" says the man in Washington. "It belongs to the poor."

"No!" says the man in the Vatican. "It belongs to God."

"No!" says the man in Moscow. "It belongs to everyone."

I rejected those answers.

Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible...

sailor

11-10-2009, 04:42 PM

"Anarchy, as a political concept, is a naive floating abstraction: . . . a society without an organized government would be at the mercy of the first criminal who came along and who would precipitate it into the chaos of gang warfare. But the possibility of human immorality is not the only objection to anarchy: even a society whose every member were fully rational and faultlessly moral, could not function in a state of anarchy; it is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government." - From The Virtue of Selfishness

but i'd hardly call libertarians anarchists. seems a silly attack.

Bob Impact

11-10-2009, 04:55 PM

but i'd hardly call libertarians anarchists. seems a silly attack.

Libertarians run the gamut of very small government to outright anarchism. During the time Rand was alive and actively writing (this book was published in 1064) the loudest contingent of libertarians were more towards anarchistic then the minarchists of today.

mikeyboy

11-10-2009, 04:58 PM

Libertarians run the gamut of very small government to outright anarchism. During the time Rand was alive and actively writing (this book was published in 1064) the loudest contingent of libertarians were more towards anarchistic then the minarchists of today.

1064?

sailor

11-10-2009, 05:28 PM

1064?

hubba-hubba

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SZdkoheIZJM/SJL9ziPgEWI/AAAAAAAAAd4/Ateox759ebI/s400/anna_comnena_03.gif

TheMojoPin

11-10-2009, 07:49 PM

She wasn't a big fan of libertarians, the basic split is with anarchism vs. limited government... I won't go into the details but she was particularly vicious towards them, link: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_campus_libertarians

Q: Why don’t you approve of the Libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works? [FHF: “The Age of Mediocrity,” 1981]

AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.

Holy shit, I love Ayn Rand now.

sailor

11-11-2009, 02:46 AM

Holy shit, I love Ayn Rand now.

you dirty libertarian.

TheMojoPin

11-11-2009, 07:22 AM

you dirty libertarian.

You filthy sailor.

PapaBear

02-01-2010, 10:18 PM

I've been making an effort to read more fiction lately, and a friend's wife insisted on lending me "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.

I've heard various things about her philosophies and how they're injected into her novels, and I'm just wondering if I should bother reading this book. The damn thing's thicker than the Bible, and I lose interest quickly if the pace isn't lively.

Anyone have any opinions and/or suggestions?

Happy Birthday