41% of Americans are Uninsured [Archive]

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HBox

04-26-2006, 01:05 PM

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480260/" target="_blank">That's a nearly 50% increase since 2001.</a>This is a major problem, and will only get worse, and soon. <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480260/" target="_blank"></a>

Furtherman

04-26-2006, 01:22 PM

I'm not sure either.

booster11373

04-26-2006, 01:57 PM

But conservatives keep telling us that there is a booming economy. Clearly your part of the liberal media establishment.

nevnut

04-26-2006, 03:34 PM

I've started a Health Savings Account through work and I think over the long run, if everyone did the same, health cost would go down.Yes, you are spending more of your own money for health care, but I believe we as citizens have a responsibility to pull our own weight when ever possible.  It puts the power of how medical dollars are spent back to the consumer/patient.You also have more of a choice of where you can get medical care. And all the money you put in is before taxes, and just as long as you only use that money for health care, it's never taxed.

HBox

04-26-2006, 03:57 PM

nevnut wrote: I've started a Health Savings Account through work and I think over the long run, if everyone did the same, health cost would go down.Yes, you are spending more of your own money for health care, but I believe we as citizens have a responsibility to pull our own weight when ever possible. It puts the power of how medical dollars are spent back to the consumer/patient.You also have more of a choice of where you can get medical care. And all the money you put in is before taxes, and just as long as you only use that money for health care, it's never taxed.  Health Savings Accounts are a complete joke. They address non-existant problems and place an incredible burden on the chronically ill who will always meet the deductible and out of pocket limits every single year and therefore will never be able to take advantage of the savings account and tax incentives. I'm not going to deny that this will work out great for healthy people. Hwoever, all this does is minimize risk sharing, making those who are sick pay for more of their own health care expenses at a time when even with insurance people are having a hard time paying for their drugs and other costs. And just about everyone gets sick eventually as you get older. The whole idea behind HSAs is that people are overinsured, that they overuse their own health insurance and that if they were forced to pay for it themselves, they would spend less, spend more wisely, etc. Which is complete bullshit. I can't imagine that there are many people out there who would agree that they are over-insured.In health care spending, the sickest 20% of the population use 80% of the total health spending. All this does is address speculative problems with the spending of the healthy 80% who only use 20% of spending. Because that other 80% of spending is non-negotiable. I can promise you those people 1. Aren't going to the doctor more than neccessary, and don't want to be going when they do, 2. Already have incredible medical expenses under standard insurance without having to bear a much bigger burden with their continously empty HSAs, and 3. Already spend enough time dealing with their illnesses without having to shop around for bargain basement X-Rays.

Gvac

04-26-2006, 03:58 PM

Look at the bright side; it'll help curb a population explosion.

ADF

04-26-2006, 04:22 PM

My solution: <img width="320" height="277" border="0" src="http://images.indymedia.org/imc/seattle/images/2004/11/242918.jpg" />

Sheeplovr

04-26-2006, 04:25 PM

this thing you call insinsurance i hear about it but havent seen it in years it sounds like a faire talesometimes i have dreams where i have insurance  and i  can fly on my magic pony

booster11373

04-26-2006, 04:28 PM

ADF wrote: My solution: <img height="277" src="http://images.indymedia.org/imc/seattle/images/2004/11/242918.jpg" width="320" border="0" /> I am not willing to give up Vegas or Alaska.

Stankfoot

04-26-2006, 04:47 PM

Health insurance is a problem but I'm more concerned with the corporations eliminating traditional pension plans. All it will take is a serious downturn in the stockmarket around the time the bulk of the baby boomers reach retirement. Their 401Ks will be trashed and Social Security will have been dismantled by the Republicans so they'll all be living on dog food ...........

Snoogans

04-26-2006, 04:47 PM

I am one of the 41%

Bulldogcakes

04-26-2006, 04:55 PM

HBox wrote: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480260/">That's a nearly 50% increase since 2001.</a>This is a major problem, and will only get worse, and soon.   <a target="_blank" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480260/"></a> And they still get cared for, whether they can pay for it or not. And the rest of those that have coverage pay higher premiums as a result. If there is a problem here, its that coverage is becoming unaffordable because of the large #'s of uninsured people raising everyone else's rates, which will then in turn cause more companies to reduce coverage and individuals to drop their policies altogether.   And HSA's aren't a joke, like you claim. They make alot more sense for most Americans than most health plans do. You have coverage for any bills over a high deductable and you keep the deductable in an escrow account. I wish I could do that with my car insurance too. I'd gladly put $3000 in escrow to pay lower rates if they'd let me. MY annual bill would be less than half, and I never make any claims anyway even when I have had accidents. As it is I pay over $3000 a year for shit coverage. And people who have big company insurance plans think it that $80 a bottle meds cost $8, and then they bitch about paying that. If they buy their own meds with their own money, they'll be asking for the (in most cases) equally effective generics real soon. What we have now is big government and the big phamaceuticals giving us a system we cant afford anymore.  The best answer is more personal choice, more freedom to choose what suits each of us best. HSA'a are a step in that direction. Anything that gets people to have a better understanding of actual costs will make the big pharmaceuticals have to compete harder for the $$, and the competition will eventually bring down prices. Let me give you a personal example from something I had done recently. I went to a podiatrist for chronic ingrown toenails (I know, gross) She sends me to get an x-ray too see if there's a bone infection, which if there was could be serious. I went, paid the $200 out of pocket for the x-rays. I look up online the incidence of osteomelytis and found out its extremely rare, especially in people my age. Was that test really necessary? If I have to go back again (My Mom did for years) I'll skip the X-ray next time. Especially with all the info available online (from reputable sources) being able to make informed decisions like that will add up to lower premiums for everyone over the long run.   <blockquote />

nevnut

04-26-2006, 05:15 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:  HBox wrote: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480260/" target="_blank">That's a nearly 50% increase since 2001.</a>This is a major problem, and will only get worse, and soon.   <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12480260/" target="_blank"></a> And they still get cared for, whether they can pay for it or not. And the rest of those that have coverage pay higher premiums as a result. If there is a problem here, its that coverage is becoming unaffordable because of the large #'s of uninsured people raising everyone else's rates, which will then in turn cause more companies to reduce coverage and individuals to drop their policies altogether.   And HSA's aren't a joke, like you claim. They make alot more sense for most Americans than most health plans do. You have coverage for any bills over a high deductable and you keep the deductable in an escrow account. I wish I could do that with my car insurance too. I'd gladly put $3000 in escrow to pay lower rates if they'd let me. MY annual bill would be less than half, and I never make any claims anyway even when I have had accidents. As it is I pay over $3000 a year for shit coverage. And people who have big company insurance plans think it that $80 a bottle meds cost $8, and then they bitch about paying that. If they buy their own meds with their own money, they'll be asking for the (in most cases) equally effective generics real soon. What we have now is big government and the big phamaceuticals giving us a system we cant afford anymore.  The best answer is more personal choice, more freedom to choose what suits each of us best. HSA'a are a step in that direction. Anything that gets people to have a better understanding of actual costs will make the big pharmaceuticals have to compete harder for the $$, and the competition will eventually bring down prices. Let me give you a personal example from something I had done recently. I went to a podiatrist for chronic ingrown toenails (I know, gross) She sends me to get an x-ray too see if there's a bone infection, which if there was could be serious. I went, paid the $200 out of pocket for the x-rays. I look up online the incidence of osteomelytis and found out its extremely rare, especially in people my age. Was that test really necessary? If I have to go back again (My Mom did for years) I'll skip the X-ray next time. Especially with all the info available online (from reputable sources) being able to make informed decisions like that will add up to lower premiums for everyone over the long run.    Thanks BDC, most times I'm not to articulate and have trouble getting my point across. I think it is absolutely absurd that every one thinks it's somebody elses responsbility to pay for our health problems.Yes, I realize it is very expensive and hardly any one can afford it. but HSA's are a step in the right direction. Most HSA's require that you also have a high deductible insurace. The way mine is set up the HSA is suppose to cover the deductible every year ($2500/$5000) and any thing else my insurance doesn't cover ( eyeglasses, cosemetic, or what ever).  My boss starts the year out with $1250 and I put in $40 a week.  If I ever leave for another job, the money is mine and not taxed just as long as I use it for Health Care. For a small company like ours, it really helps out with the premiums.

Tall_James

04-26-2006, 05:46 PM

<img height="379" src="http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c174/cheeseeatingbird/reggie013_gif.jpg" width="304" border="0" />Reggie sez...GET A JOB!

HBox

04-26-2006, 05:50 PM

And they still get cared for, whether they can
pay for it or not. And the rest of those that have coverage pay higher
premiums as a result. Even
if they aren't paying, they are paying in the form of a completely
decimated credit record. 
 And HSA's aren't a joke, like you claim. They make alot more sense for most Americans than most health plans do.  [size=2]Well,
I said that. It's great for the 80% who comprise 20% of health care
spending. And it's a poison pill for the other 20%. And it almost
completely abolishes the concept of risk-sharing. You have coverage for any bills over a high deductable and you keep the deductable in an escrow account If
you can fill up the escrow account. I read an article that said most of
the people who currently have HSAs have empty accounts. And what about
the over the deductible? These plans have even higher Out of pocket
limits, if they even have them. So once you go over that deductible,
you're still paying, albeit a percentage of costs. You'll have families
who are already struggling financially with illness having to deal with
scrounging together thousands and thousands of dollars that they KNOW
they will have to spend each and every year. These out of pocket costs
will dwarf costs they are already struggling with. And people who have big company insurance plans
think it that $80 a bottle meds cost $8, and then they bitch about
paying that. If they buy their own meds with their own money, they'll
be asking for the (in most cases) equally effective generics real soon.
 In
my plan, generic co-pays are half that of brand name formularies, and
if your brand name drug isn't on the list of my insurance companies
"preferred drugs," it's four times. These are pretty good incentives
for the people who use the vast majority of health care spending to go
the cheap and effective route, while allowing them to still afford the
drugs. 
Of course, if they have to buy their own meds on their own, they
may not even be able to afford the generics. If there are even generics
available yet. What we have now is big <strike>government</strike> insurance and the big phamaceuticals giving us a system we cant afford anymore. I
fixed that for you. Medicare/Medicaid and the VA are the two most
efficient insurance carriers/helath care providers by far. What causes
a lot of problems are the hundreds of different insurance providers
each with different regulations and procedures for bill submission. And
the companies are all inefficient. The process forces doctors to hire
staff just to submit to insurance companies. And if you're about to say
that if people had to pay that wouldn't be a problem, you're wrong. It
would just result in people not going to the doctor when they need to
if required to pay up front, or just replacing that staff with bill
collectors. [quote]Let me give you a personal example from
something I had done recently. I went to a podiatrist for chronic
ingrown toenails (I know, gross) She sends me to get an x-ray too see
if there's a bone infection, which if there was could be serious. I
went, paid the $200 out of pocket for the x-rays. I look up online the
incidence of osteomelytis and fou

Bulldogcakes

04-26-2006, 06:06 PM

HSAs are not a solution to any significant health care problem. Only for 80% of the American public. Maybe thats what Republicans see here. Pit the 80% vs the 20%. The healthy vs the sick. Fuck, who's gonna win that fight, huh? And they of course, learned this technique from the Democrats, who have been pitting the poor and middle class against the richest 1% for the past 100 years. Which is why I have no doubt in my mind that this problem will be solved, once and for all, through the mechanism of politics. Because they've done such a bang up job with everything else they run. Medicare pays shit, and most doctors charge everyone else more to make up for it. And the VA is where people go to die, or be housed indefinitely intil they die. My uncle died in a VA hospital. I wouldn't wish that fucking place on anyone. Have you been to any? If not, visit one before you recommend it for the whole country.

A.J.

04-27-2006, 04:11 AM

I'm insured -- AND I saved a bunch of money!<img height="208" src="http://www.gmu.edu/alumni/images/geico.gif" width="264" border="0" />

curtoid

04-27-2006, 04:13 AM

That was me for a couple of years, until last October. Very scary to be walking that tightrope. I later found out that I actually was still insured through my old job at Smithsonia, who forgot to take me off.

El Mudo

04-27-2006, 04:20 AM

Is that 50% increase any way related to the decline in blue collar jobs? Most of those jobs you got insurance through your Union (as do I now)

Makes it even more imperative to have a skill these days if you want to have any sort of standard of living folks....

get educated....even if its trade school

landarch

04-27-2006, 05:23 AM

ADF wrote: My solution: (jesusland) I am not willing to give up Vegas or Alaska. and I am not willing to live in this Jesusland either....