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HBox
06-20-2006, 10:53 AM
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/19/AR2006061901211_pf.html" target="_self">I don't know what to say after reading this.</a></p><p>One example out of many comes in Ron Suskind's gripping narrative of
what the White House has celebrated as one of the war's major
victories: the capture of Abu Zubaydah in Pakistan in March 2002.
Described as al-Qaeda's chief of operations even after U.S. and
Pakistani forces kicked down his door in Faisalabad, the Saudi-born
jihadist was the first al-Qaeda detainee to be shipped to a secret
prison abroad. Suskind shatters the official story line here.</p><p>Abu
Zubaydah, his captors discovered, turned out to be mentally ill and
nothing like the pivotal figure they supposed him to be. CIA and FBI
analysts, poring over a diary he kept for more than a decade, found
entries &quot;in the voice of three people: Hani 1, Hani 2, and Hani 3&quot; -- a
boy, a young man and a middle-aged alter ego. All three recorded in
numbing detail &quot;what people ate, or wore, or trifling things they
said.&quot; Dan Coleman, then the FBI's top al-Qaeda analyst, told a senior
bureau official, &quot;This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality.&quot;</p><p>Abu
Zubaydah also appeared to know nothing about terrorist operations;
rather, he was al-Qaeda's go-to guy for minor logistics -- travel for
wives and children and the like. That judgment was &quot;echoed at the top
of CIA and was, of course, briefed to the President and Vice
President,&quot; Suskind writes. And yet somehow, in a speech delivered two
weeks later, President Bush portrayed Abu Zubaydah as &quot;one of the top
operatives plotting and planning death and destruction on the United
States.&quot; And over the months to come, under White House and Justice
Department direction, the CIA would make him its first test subject for
harsh interrogation techniques.</p><p>...</p><p>Which brings us back to the unbalanced Abu Zubaydah. &quot;I said he was
important,&quot; Bush reportedly told Tenet at one of their daily meetings.
&quot;You're not going to let me lose face on this, are you?&quot; &quot;No sir, Mr.
President,&quot; Tenet replied. Bush &quot;was fixated on how to get Zubaydah to
tell us the truth,&quot; Suskind writes, and he asked one briefer, &quot;Do some
of these harsh methods really work?&quot; Interrogators did their best to
find out, Suskind reports. They strapped Abu Zubaydah to a water-board,
which reproduces the agony of drowning. They threatened him with
certain death. They withheld medication. They bombarded him with
deafening noise and harsh lights, depriving him of sleep. Under that
duress, he began to speak of plots of every variety -- against shopping
malls, banks, supermarkets, water systems, nuclear plants, apartment
buildings, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Statue of Liberty. With each new
tale, &quot;thousands of uniformed men and women raced in a panic to each .
. . target.&quot; And so, Suskind writes, &quot;the United States would torture a
mentally disturbed man and then leap, screaming, at every word he
uttered.&quot; <br /></p>

CuzBum
06-20-2006, 11:10 AM
How'd he find all this out?

Rodan
06-20-2006, 11:19 AM
<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br />How'd he find all this out? <p>But that approach constricted the mission of the intelligence and counterterrorism professionals whose point of view dominates this book</p>

empulse
06-20-2006, 06:43 PM
<p>My problem with the GW clan claiming success in any of this is the history of our involvement with al-queda, before they were rockstars.&nbsp; We trained them to fight a war, a guerilla war against a super power country.&nbsp; Bush Sr. was instrumental in getting weapons for the mujahadeen, and making sure they could really hand a large overly techno-bloated warmachine their asses in their hats.&nbsp; And here we are, 20 years later and fighting the people we trained, supplied weapons too (oh yah 600 shoulder fire missles we sold them are MIA..).&nbsp; It just baffles me that so many in this country were willing to put their faith, their saftey, and our constitution in the hands of this dry-drunk-man-boy president.&nbsp; We can capture or kill their #3 guy as many times as we like but in the end&nbsp; we will reap what we have sown.</p>

trackstand
06-20-2006, 07:10 PM
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/19/AR2006061901211_pf.html" target="_self">I don't know what to say after reading this.</a></p><p>&nbsp;</p>One example out of many comes in Ron Suskind's gripping narrative of what the White House has celebrated as one of the war's major victories: the capture of Abu Zubaydah in Pakistan in March 2002. Described as al-Qaeda's chief of operations even after U.S. and Pakistani forces kicked down his door in Faisalabad, the Saudi-born jihadist was the first al-Qaeda detainee to be shipped to a secret prison abroad. Suskind shatters the official story line here. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Abu Zubaydah, his captors discovered, turned out to be mentally ill and nothing like the pivotal figure they supposed him to be. CIA and FBI analysts, poring over a diary he kept for more than a decade, found entries &quot;in the voice of three people: Hani 1, Hani 2, and Hani 3&quot; -- a boy, a young man and a middle-aged alter ego. All three recorded in numbing detail &quot;what people ate, or wore, or trifling things they said.&quot; Dan Coleman, then the FBI's top al-Qaeda analyst, told a senior bureau official, &quot;This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality.&quot;</p><p>Abu Zubaydah also appeared to know nothing about terrorist operations; rather, he was al-Qaeda's go-to guy for minor logistics -- travel for wives and children and the like. That judgment was &quot;echoed at the top of CIA and was, of course, briefed to the President and Vice President,&quot; Suskind writes. And yet somehow, in a speech delivered two weeks later, President Bush portrayed Abu Zubaydah as &quot;one of the top operatives plotting and planning death and destruction on the United States.&quot; And over the months to come, under White House and Justice Department direction, the CIA would make him its first test subject for harsh interrogation techniques.</p><p>...</p><p>Which brings us back to the unbalanced Abu Zubaydah. &quot;I said he was important,&quot; Bush reportedly told Tenet at one of their daily meetings. &quot;You're not going to let me lose face on this, are you?&quot; &quot;No sir, Mr. President,&quot; Tenet replied. Bush &quot;was fixated on how to get Zubaydah to tell us the truth,&quot; Suskind writes, and he asked one briefer, &quot;Do some of these harsh methods really work?&quot; Interrogators did their best to find out, Suskind reports. They strapped Abu Zubaydah to a water-board, which reproduces the agony of drowning. They threatened him with certain death. They withheld medication. They bombarded him with deafening noise and harsh lights, depriving him of sleep. Under that duress, he began to speak of plots of every variety -- against shopping malls, banks, supermarkets, water systems, nuclear plants, apartment buildings, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Statue of Liberty. With each new tale, &quot;thousands of uniformed men and women raced in a panic to each . . . target.&quot; And so, Suskind writes, &quot;the United States would torture a mentally disturbed man and then leap, screaming, at every word he uttered.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Could you repeat that, I wasn't listening.</p>

UnknownPD
06-20-2006, 07:22 PM
<p>I got</p><p>&quot;one example...every word he uttered&quot; The rest is just a blur</p>

narc
06-20-2006, 07:32 PM
It does seem like kind of a waste that they spent all this time and effort torturing this one crazy asshole when it would have been more productive to be torturing so many other crazy assholes out there.