Is Israel invading Lebanon?

[foodcourtdruide]

<p>The &quot;I&quot; word seems to be taboo when the American mainstream newsmedia reports this story.&nbsp;On cnn.com they refer to the attack on Lebanon as a &quot;strike&quot;, foxnews.com says Israel is &quot;intesifying attacks&quot;, the New York Times also say &quot;strike&quot; and npr.org refers to it as a &quot;blockade&quot;.</p><p>I'm not claiming a side, but&nbsp;I think this is an example of how media uses words to shape our opinions of a topic.&nbsp;</p>

[A.J.]

Because, after all, Jews control the media.

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Who would be surprised if Israel tried to take more land in the area, and who would try to stop them short of the countries in the are?</p><p>No one over here would challenge them.</p>

[Furtherman]

There goes my trip to Beruit.

[Dirtybird12]

<p>Israel doesnt fuck around man. </p>

[UnknownPD]

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">How fucking stupid are we going to look if Pat Robertson was right and this is the end of the world.?</font>

[Furtherman]

No worries, Pat Robertson will NEVER be right.

[UnknownPD]

<p>No worries, Pat Robertson will NEVER be right. </p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">...but he does make a great shake...now I'm starvin'</font></p>

[IamFogHat]

<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br />No worries, Pat Robertson will NEVER be right. <p>Well, right wing maybe...</p>

[foodcourtdruide]

<strong>A.J.</strong> wrote:<br />Because, after all, Jews control the media. <p>I think American media just tends to side with American interests. </p>

[blakjeezis]

<p>They're never going to stop. They're going to kill us all.</p>

[HBox]

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5178058.stm" target="_blank">It's escalating.</a><br />

[Yerdaddy]

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5176158.stm" target="_blank">And we'(well, you, I still pay 11 cents to ride the bus)re paying for it</a>

[Se7en]

<p>I guess after pulling out of both Gaza and Lebanon, and the animals STILL firing rocket at them, Israel has finally had enough.</p>

[CuzBum]

War was bound to happen in the region. When you have two groups of proud people disputing over a relatively small area&nbsp;of land war is inevitable.

[suggums]

horde king forever<br />

[CuzBum]

<strong>Yerdaddy</strong> wrote:<br /><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5176158.stm" target="_blank">And we'(well, you, I still pay 11 cents to ride the bus)re paying for it</a> <p>Does the bus run on monkey's blood?</p>

[Mossad]

<p>If you do not support Israel you are an anti semite and you will be systematically destroyed.&nbsp; PS: we control the internet as well.&nbsp; L'chaim.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img height="142" src="http://www.yenimesaj.com.tr/resimler-haberler/2006/04/09/mossad.gif" width="130" border="0" /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Yea, thanks for that tid bit.</p>

[undressa]

<p>I am very concerned about the situation, one of my bosses just sent his family there for the summer about a week ago.&nbsp; There are right where the &quot;invasion&quot; is taking place.&nbsp; And now that they have destroyed the international airport I am not sure how he is going to get there to bring them back home.</p><p>V</p>

[foodcourtdruide]

<strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I guess after pulling out of both Gaza and Lebanon, and the animals STILL firing rocket at them, Israel has finally had enough.</p><p>I can see how killing civilians is a logical way to combat &quot;animals&quot;. One man's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.</p>

[Dirtybird12]

<p>FOX NEWS - Israeli airstrikes on Lebanon military bases</p><p>it's getting worse by the minute. </p>

[CuzBum]

<p>Israel just took out the fuel tanks at Beirut's airport.</p><p><img height="168" alt="story.1445.fuel.aa.jpg" src="http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/meast/07/13/mideast/story.1445.fuel.aa.jpg" width="220" border="0" /></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by CuzBum on 7-13-06 @ 3:26 PM</span>

[suggums]

<p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span>

[CuzBum]

<strong>foodcourtdruide</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I guess after pulling out of both Gaza and Lebanon, and the animals STILL firing rocket at them, Israel has finally had enough.</p><p>I can see how killing civilians is a logical way to combat &quot;animals&quot;. One man's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.</p><p>You are going to find that many of the truths we cling to, depend greatly on our own point of view.</p><p>-Obi Wan Kenobi</p>

[CuzBum]

<strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>I think these people are killing eachother over land.</p>

[suggums]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>I think these people are killing eachother over land.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>arent they fighting over land because they cant get along and live in the same area because they are of different religions?</p><p>im pulling all of this out of my ass either way&nbsp;</p>

[UnknownPD]

<p>one of my bosses just sent his family there for the summer about a week ago</p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">Did he have to bind and gag them to get them on the plane?</font></p>

[UnknownPD]

<strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>I think these people are killing eachother over land.</p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">Oh...now it all makes sense</font></p>

[CuzBum]

<p>Imagine there's no countries<br />It isn't hard to do<br /><img src="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39018000/jpg/_39018219_lennon_bbc203body.jpg" border="0" /></p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>undressa</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I am very concerned about the situation, one of my bosses <strong>just sent his family there for</strong> <strong>the summer</strong> about a week ago.&nbsp; There are right where the &quot;invasion&quot; is taking place.&nbsp; And now that they have destroyed the international airport <strong>I am not sure how he is going</strong> <strong>to get there to bring them back home.</strong></p><p>V</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Sounds like your bosses' &quot;plan&quot; is working out(Mwahahahahaha).&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/devil2.gif" border="0" /></font></strong></p>

[suggums]

the more i read, the messier it appears. i can only hope things settle down<br />

[booster11373]

<p>Things like this are WAR even if there arent called by that name</p><p>Does all this stem from the attack and kidnap of an Isreali solider last week? I know there are other factors but was that the flashpoint?</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by booster11373 on 7-13-06 @ 4:07 PM</span>

[foodcourtdruide]

Now the subheadline on FoxNews is &quot;Israel Goes to War&nbsp;Against Hezbollah&quot;. That's an interesting choice of words. I wonder if the Mexican Government&nbsp;attacked the &quot;Minutemen&quot; on the Mexico border&nbsp;it would be regarded as Mexico attacking a group, rather than our Country.

[Furtherman]

<p>STRALSUND, Germany (AP) - President Bush strongly defended Israel's attacks in Lebanon on Thursday but worried they could weaken or topple the fragile government in Beirut. The Mideast violence exposed divisions between the United States and allies and raised fears of a widening war. </p><p>&quot;Israel has a right to defend herself,&quot; Bush said at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. &quot;Every nation must defend herself against terrorist attacks and the killing of innocent life.&quot; </p><p>Merkel appealed for restraint by all sides and said it was up to the militant group Hezbollah to defuse the situation, triggered by its cross-border raid from Lebanon into Israel and the capture of two Israeli soldiers. She called the violence a &quot;very disturbing situation&quot; that &quot;fills us with concern.&quot; </p><p>The Mideast eruption came at an awkward time for Bush. His strong support of Israel put him sharply at odds with European Union allies two days before a summit of world leaders in Russia, where the United States is counting on a united stand against Iran's nuclear ambitions and North Korea's long-range missile test. The violence also presents Bush with yet another major crisis in the Middle East, along with the Iraq war and the Iran standoff.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Furtherman on 7-13-06 @ 4:43 PM</span>

[Dirtybird12]

<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><p>STRALSUND, Germany (AP) - President Bush strongly defended Israel's attacks in Lebanon </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>$hocker</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by CircusFreak on 7-13-06 @ 5:24 PM</span>

[Recyclerz]

<p>To the original question, I don't think Israel's actions are really an invasion, in the common understanding of the word.&nbsp; Don't forget they invaded Lebanon for real back in the '80's and that didn't work so well.&nbsp; I think&nbsp;they're demonstrating their &quot;one of our guys is worth 100 of yours&quot; rules are still in effect. Their PM is new and he has to show he's not a pussy as well.</p><p>That said, and to give credit where it's due, I think you'd have to say that if a certain scumbag terrorist had put together a business plan to goad the West into precipitious military actions that destabilzed the political equilibrium in the Middle East and southwest Asia, while at the same whipping up anti-western fervor amongst the disaffected Muslim population against their perceived, close-at-hand&nbsp;enemies (ie. Israel and autocratic &quot;non-Islamic&quot; rulers) in order to increase the liklihood that you and you crew would get swept into power somewhere ...,</p><p>then that scumbag terrorist's plan was looking like it was coming along nicely right about now. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/sad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[narc]

Israel just does this occasionally. Goes into Lebanon's house, forces their head into the toilet, threatens to cut off their johnson, pees on the rug that really ties the room together and leaves.

[blakjeezis]

Nice marmot.

[Se7en]

<strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>It's way past land or religion.&nbsp; The Arabs in the region hate the Israelis for all of those reasons and more.&nbsp; It's pretty much pathological at this point.&nbsp; It all comes down to whether you believe Israel has a right to exist.&nbsp; Unfortunately, far too many (even in this country) do not.</p><p>Does all this stem from the attack and kidnap of an Isreali solider last week? I know there are other factors but was that the flashpoint?</p><p>Yes.&nbsp; Israel smacked them a round a bit to get them to return the soldier, and their response was to kidnap a couple MORE Israeli soldiers.&nbsp; Israel doesn't take that shit lightly, hence the current crisis.</p><p>Oh, and this is what's going on with the U.N. lately.</p><p>IsraelNN.com) The United Nations Security Council is to vote on a resolution condemning Israel for its retaliation in the Gaza region following heavy Kassam rocket attacks. A close vote is expected. The United States wants to postpone the vote until after the weekend, but Qatar wants a vote Thursday night. </p><p>The United States is lobbying the council's 15 member nations to vote against the motion, while Qatar is pressing for its passage. A two-thirds majority is required to pass the resolution. France said it will vote for it.</p><p>SURPRISE.&nbsp; The U.N. is absolutely worthless to Israel.&nbsp; Israel could be entirely engulfed in flames due to Islamic / Arab aggression, and the U.N. would come out and condemn the Israelis if they were to try and defend themselves from annihilation.</p>

[Meatball]

<p>Well said SE7EN!</p><p>The only thing i would add is that civilians become casualties because the terrorists meet, plan, build bombs and actually launch attacks from the homes in town. The terrorists and &quot;civilians&quot; are so intertwined in gaza and other arab areas that what distinguises them is mererly who is on call that day. So ingrained into the society that how can you combat them without taking the risk? Israel has always tried to avoid civilian casualties, but what else can she do??</p><p>ps - Israel does NOT want any more land. They coulndt wait to get out of Gaza, and they had no desire to occupy lebanon. They did so to defend against attacks. Lebanons capture of Israeli soldiers was entirely unprovoked and and absolutly an act of war.</p>

[narc]

"If they run, they're Hezbollah. If they stand still, they're well-disciplined Hezbollah."

[high fly]

<font size="2">They're fighting them in Lebanon so they don't have to fight them in Bombay</font>

[CuzBum]

<strong>narc</strong> wrote:<br />&quot;If they run, they're Hezbollah. If they stand still, they're well-disciplined Hezbollah.&quot; <p>&quot;You just don't lead 'em as much!&quot;</p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp; The U.N. is absolutely worthless <strike>to Israel.</strike>&nbsp; </p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Fixed.</font></strong></p>

[sr71blackbird]

<strong>FUCK THE MID-EAST!!!!</strong>

[The Jays]

You can't FUCK the Middle East, the Middle East FUCKS you!

I think we're all about to die soon. Call me a Calvinst, but we need some saving!

[tele7]

<p>I was a Calvinist in the 80's, but now they're too expensive.</p><p><img src="http://www.execstyle.com/products/pants/jeans/ckjeansth.jpg" border="0" /></p>

[The Jays]

A true Calvinst makes up the rules as he goes along.

I think Hobbes said that.

[Evilpete]

<p>I owuld respect Israel if they didn't start shit and then run behind
the US flag everytime the people they sneak attack fight back.&nbsp;
Ironic that the Isreal uses the same tactics as the Nazis did to gain
land (surprise attacks, claiming they need a buffer zone, building
walls to opress others, etc.).....and if you disagree, check the facts </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Isreal is about 75% of the reasons that region hates the US<br />
</p>

[HeyGuy]

<p>&quot;I can see how killing civilians is a logical way to combat &quot;animals&quot;. One man's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That statement is pretty true. The same way we feel what we do is right and they are wrong. They feel what they are doing is right and we are wrong. Thats why we should stop forcing our way of lives on other countries and mind our own business. </p><p>Until someone actually threatens us lets not start shit. Like Iraq, every military expert said Iraq never threatened us nor were they a threat to us. But We all knew years ago that North Korea and Iran are a huge threat to us, but we did nothing. </p><p>As far as Israel goes, I just dont understand why we always back and support them no matter what. And always say every country that Israel is fighting with is a wrong and that they are terrorist? Isnt what these countries are doing is protecting there land? Why dont we ever call Israel the terrorist? They seem to bomb and start shit the exact way the so called terrorist types do. </p><p>Japn has threatened N korea, Israel is at war with Lebanon, We are at war with Iraq and have threatedned war with N korea and Iran. Sounds to me like World War 3 is about to start. Anyone under 35 get ready for a draft.</p><p>Its a fucking Shame</p><p>Thanks Mr Bush, Hope all this war and death is worth it for your oil and power? Do us a favor send your daughters over there and put them in combat and we will see how quick you want the war to end/</p><p>New Law all Rich poloticians that have children under 25 need to have there own children in the military and in a field combat unit before they decide to go to war. If they feel that their kids lives are worth losing for a war then and only then we should go to war. </p>

[Se7en]

<p>Campo, you remind me of a guy on DailyKos today, who posted this on their website:</p><p>Imagine a world without Israel, by qrswave </p><p>Or is that not allowed?</p><p>Muslims, Jews, and Christians could live in peace without fear of mutual destruction.</p><p>There would be no more need for US AID or justification for Dimona.</p><p>We could bring down the Wall, send prisoners home, and families could be reunited.</p><p>We could dismantle checkpoints, open crossings, and pull down barbed wire fences.</p><p>There would be no more settlements or armed settlers because the people would be united.</p><p>We could replant trees and olive groves and rebuild battered cities.</p><p>No more suicide bombers or sniper fire, and no more dead civilians.</p><p>No more targeted killings and hell-fire missiles, or systematic demolitions.</p><p>Palestinians and Jews could live together and the world could address other issues.</p><p>What a simpler place this world would be</p><p>if there was no need for a Jewish majority - where there would otherwise be none.</p><p>Is it so hard to imagine?</p><p>Thankfully, some of commenters bashed the idiot for his statement.&nbsp; One of my favorite lines was something like, &quot;Did that once, six million died.&quot;</p><p>The original link&nbsp;for his remarks can be found <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/12/214150/522" target="_self">here</a>.&nbsp; If it's still up; as of this moment the page was &quot;down for maintenance&quot;, so I wouldn't be surprised if it got purged.&nbsp; DKos has a lot of crazy shit written on it on any given day, but that's pretty off the wall.</p><p>Here's what bothers me about your whole line of thought against Israel.&nbsp; It's based&nbsp;on the belief that if one side (in this case Israel) would just <em>stop being mean</em> to the other side that everthing would be okay because then the other side would stop hurting Israel. This assumes that even terrorists are, at bottom, just decent persons who have been pushed by abusive treatment to desperate retaliation by any means necessary, instead of animals who&nbsp;<em>saw other people's fucking&nbsp;heads off with every indication of thoroughly enjoying the atrocity.&nbsp; </em></p>

[HeyGuy]

<p>I dont believe Israel is always at fault, but I also dont believe that what other countries that dont like Israel are all terrorist. I do think its about religion. I see it on both sides, most people like to think just because we side with Israel then the other side is wrong and they are terroist.&nbsp;&nbsp;But If you would look at if from the other side. They think Israel is wrong and that they are the terrorist. I dont know who is the terroist and who isnt. They both create terror and bomb eachother like terroist do. Dont they have a right to defend there country just as Israel defends themselves? </p><p>If it was up to me, I would say let them fight it out for once and for all and winner takes all. Its been so many years of back and forth and nothing is resolved.</p>

[Stankfoot]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong />Here's what bothers me about your whole line of thought against Israel. It's based on the belief that if one side (in this case Israel) would just <em>stop being mean</em> to the other side that everthing would be okay because then the other side would stop hurting Israel. This assumes that even terrorists are, at bottom, just decent persons who have been pushed by abusive treatment to desperate retaliation by any means necessary, instead of animals who <em>saw other people's fucking heads off with every indication of thoroughly enjoying the atrocity. </em><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I think its more than that; what they're saying is not that they're would be peace if Israel stopped being mean. They are saying there would be peace if Israel ceased to exist! They feel that Israel is on occupied land and even if Israel wasn't the aggressor there would still be violence until they leave......</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[mendyweiss]

<img height="203" src="http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6245/Michael2b.jpg" width="250" border="0" />Got to go through this every couple of years, helps to clear the air

[A.J.]

<strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>It's way past land or religion.&nbsp; The Arabs in the region hate the Israelis for all of those reasons and more.&nbsp; It's pretty much pathological at this point.&nbsp; It all comes down to whether you believe Israel has a right to exist.&nbsp; Unfortunately, far too many (even in this country) do not.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What people don't realized is that before the State of Israel was established, Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine got along quite well -- much like Christians and Jews living in Arabia did around the time of Muhammad.</p><p>What Arabs object to is having Palestinians stripped of their land in order to foster a Jewish majority.&nbsp; As Saudi King 'Abd Al-'Aziz told FDR, &quot;if you want to repay the Jews for their suffering give them land in Germany, not Palestine&quot;.</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>A.J.</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>It's way past land or religion.&nbsp; The Arabs in the region hate the Israelis for all of those reasons and more.&nbsp; It's pretty much pathological at this point.&nbsp; It all comes down to whether you believe Israel has a right to exist.&nbsp; Unfortunately, far too many (even in this country) do not.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What people don't realized is that before the State of Israel was established, Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine got along quite well -- much like Christians and Jews living in Arabia did around the time of Muhammad.</p><p>What Arabs object to is having Palestinians stripped of their land in order to foster a Jewish majority.&nbsp; As Saudi King 'Abd Al-'Aziz told FDR, &quot;if you want to repay the Jews for their suffering give them land in Germany, not Palestine&quot;.</p><p>So once again I will ask the question. Why do we continue to back Israel if what they are doing is what we went to Iraq in 1991?&nbsp;Iraq occupied kuwait and we went over there to get them out. So why wouldnt we side with Palestine since it's their land? There is a reason we always side with Israel, I just have no idea why.</p>

[foodcourtdruide]

<strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Campo, you remind me of a guy on DailyKos today, who posted this on their website:</p><p>&nbsp;</p>Imagine a world without Israel, by qrswave <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Or is that not allowed?</p><p>Muslims, Jews, and Christians could live in peace without fear of mutual destruction.</p><p>There would be no more need for US AID or justification for Dimona.</p><p>We could bring down the Wall, send prisoners home, and families could be reunited.</p><p>We could dismantle checkpoints, open crossings, and pull down barbed wire fences.</p><p>There would be no more settlements or armed settlers because the people would be united.</p><p>We could replant trees and olive groves and rebuild battered cities.</p><p>No more suicide bombers or sniper fire, and no more dead civilians.</p><p>No more targeted killings and hell-fire missiles, or systematic demolitions.</p><p>Palestinians and Jews could live together and the world could address other issues.</p><p>What a simpler place this world would be</p><p>if there was no need for a Jewish majority - where there would otherwise be none.</p><p>Is it so hard to imagine? </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thankfully, some of commenters bashed the idiot for his statement.&nbsp; One of my favorite lines was something like, &quot;Did that once, six million died.&quot;</p><p>The original link&nbsp;for his remarks can be found <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/12/214150/522" target="_self">here</a>.&nbsp; If it's still up; as of this moment the page was &quot;down for maintenance&quot;, so I wouldn't be surprised if it got purged.&nbsp; DKos has a lot of crazy shit written on it on any given day, but that's pretty off the wall.</p><p>Here's what bothers me about your whole line of thought against Israel.&nbsp; It's based&nbsp;on the belief that if one side (in this case Israel) would just <em>stop being mean</em> to the other side that everthing would be okay because then the other side would stop hurting Israel. This assumes that even terrorists are, at bottom, just decent persons who have been pushed by abusive treatment to desperate retaliation by any means necessary, instead of animals who&nbsp;<em>saw other people's fucking&nbsp;heads off with every indication of thoroughly enjoying the atrocity.&nbsp; </em></p><p>What's the difference between killing someone by sawing their heads off or having them be collateral damage in an assault against Hezbollah?&nbsp;The issue I have right now with Israel is not that they are attacking Hezbollah strongholds, but that so many&nbsp;Lebonese people are dying in the fighting. Right now it's been reported that around&nbsp;60 civilians. </p>

[A.J.]

<strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>A.J.</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>It's way past land or religion.&nbsp; The Arabs in the region hate the Israelis for all of those reasons and more.&nbsp; It's pretty much pathological at this point.&nbsp; It all comes down to whether you believe Israel has a right to exist.&nbsp; Unfortunately, far too many (even in this country) do not.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What people don't realized is that before the State of Israel was established, Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine got along quite well -- much like Christians and Jews living in Arabia did around the time of Muhammad.</p><p>What Arabs object to is having Palestinians stripped of their land in order to foster a Jewish majority.&nbsp; As Saudi King 'Abd Al-'Aziz told FDR, &quot;if you want to repay the Jews for their suffering give them land in Germany, not Palestine&quot;.</p><p>So once again I will ask the question. Why do we continue to back Israel if what they are doing is what we went to Iraq in 1991?&nbsp;Iraq occupied kuwait and we went over there to get them out. So why wouldnt we side with Palestine since it's their land? There is a reason we always side with Israel, I just have no idea why.</p><p>Ask politicians who have large Jewish populations in their districts.</p>

[Dirtybird12]

<p><font size="3">The American Media is run by undercover muslims posing as jewish cambodians</font></p>

[narc]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br><strong>A.J.</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>remember when people didn't kill each other over ideological clashes that basically amount to whos invisible friend is better?</p><p>yeah, me neither </p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by suggums on 7-13-06 @ 3:20 PM</span> <p>It's way past land or religion. The Arabs in the region hate the Israelis for all of those reasons and more. It's pretty much pathological at this point. It all comes down to whether you believe Israel has a right to exist. Unfortunately, far too many (even in this country) do not.</p><p> </p><p>What people don't realized is that before the State of Israel was established, Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine got along quite well -- much like Christians and Jews living in Arabia did around the time of Muhammad.</p><p>What Arabs object to is having Palestinians stripped of their land in order to foster a Jewish majority. As Saudi King 'Abd Al-'Aziz told FDR, "if you want to repay the Jews for their suffering give them land in Germany, not Palestine".</p><p>So once again I will ask the question. Why do we continue to back Israel if what they are doing is what we went to Iraq in 1991? Iraq occupied kuwait and we went over there to get them out. So why wouldnt we side with Palestine since it's their land? There is a reason we always side with Israel, I just have no idea why.</p><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>

That's not what's going on. It was agreed by everyone (except the Palestinians, but they didn't have a say, because they didn't really have a state. It was sort of an extension of Jordan) in the Balfour Treaty after WWII that Israel would come into being and that the Palestinians would have their own land. The other Arab states didn't then and don't now actually give a shit about the Palestinians other than to keep them off their land, and to further their own agendas. Israel tried to abide by the terms of the agreement initially, but they kept getting attacked, which is why they ended up occupying Gaza and the West Bank anyway. A few years ago, Ehud Barak was willing to give the Palestinians EVERYTHING THEY WANTED. You read that correctly. Complete autonomy in the West Bank and in Gaza, capital in Jerusalem, etc. YASSER ARAFAT REFUSED, because they want the whole country. Your whole premise is predicated on the Israelis handing over their country to the palestinians and then everyone could live in peace. ARE YOU INSANE? Did you see when Israel pulled out of Gaza recently, and they had to physically pull the conservative Israelis out of their homes? Imagine the Palestinians having to do that - only they wouldn't carry them out. They'd just set the place on fire and shoot them. You're crazy if you think there wouldn't be a whole lot of recriminations and that Israel just came in and took their land. This was a completely legit and legal process creating the state of Israel from Day 1.

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Recyclerz</strong> wrote:<br /><p>To the original question, I don't think Israel's actions are really an invasion, in the common understanding of the word. Don't forget they invaded Lebanon for real back in the '80's and that didn't work so well. I think they're demonstrating their &quot;one of our guys is worth 100 of yours&quot; rules are still in effect. Their PM is new and he has to show he's not a pussy as well.</p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Which is why they have so few friends around the world, and no moral authority to stand on. I certainly cant support their thuggish tactics. So innocent men women and children have to die so a politician can establish his &quot;street cred&quot;? That makes him as much of a terrorist as the terrorists who attack innocent Isrealis trying to ride the bus.&nbsp;</p><p>Let them all kill everyone they want. They deserve each other. Just keep me and my country out of it. &nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[sr71blackbird]

<strong>blakjeezis</strong> wrote:<br />Nice marmot. <p><img height="185" src="http://www.leffa-arviot.com/arvostelut/b/big_lebowski_the/01.jpg" width="250" border="0" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>By the way, my &quot;three sentence rule&quot; has been reached and surpassed in this thread.&nbsp; Have a good day.</p>

[Dirtybird12]

<p><strong>WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The fighting that erupted in Lebanon has prompted <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/14/lebanon.us.citizens/" target="_self">the Pentagon to develop scenarios for evacuating American citizens, estimated to number around 25,000, military sources told CNN.</a></strong></p><p><strong>lets hope those american citizens are not poor and black .... we know for the past how uncle sam &quot;evacuates&quot;</strong></p><p><strong>NEW ORLEANS - never forget</strong></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by CircusFreak on 7-14-06 @ 9:41 PM</span>

[FlashVirus]

<p> </p><strong>Evilpete</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I owuld respect Israel if they didn't start shit and then run behind
the US flag everytime the people they sneak attack fight back.
Ironic that the Isreal uses the same tactics as the Nazis did to gain
land (surprise attacks, claiming they need a buffer zone, building
walls to opress others, etc.).....and if you disagree, check the facts </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Isreal is about 75% of the reasons that region hates the US<br />
</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Explain how Israel is starting shit when two of their soldiers were kidnapped? And how are they hiding behind the US flag? </p><p> </p><p>The muslims would hate us even if Israel wasn't there. Why do you want to please these insane islamics?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><span class="postbody"><strong>NEW ORLEANS - never forget</strong></span></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'll never forget how Bush created that hurricane.&nbsp;</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by FlashVirus on 7-14-06 @ 10:44 PM</span>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>Bulldogcakes</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Recyclerz</strong> wrote:<br /><p>To the original question, I don't think Israel's actions are really an invasion, in the common understanding of the word. Don't forget they invaded Lebanon for real back in the '80's and that didn't work so well. I think they're demonstrating their &quot;one of our guys is worth 100 of yours&quot; rules are still in effect. Their PM is new and he has to show he's not a pussy as well.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Which is why they have so few friends around the world, and no moral authority to stand on. I certainly cant support their thuggish tactics. So innocent men women and children have to die so a politician can establish his &quot;street cred&quot;? That makes him as much of a terrorist as the terrorists who attack innocent Isrealis trying to ride the bus.&nbsp;</p><p>Let them all kill everyone they want. They deserve each other. Just keep me and my country out of it. &nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I agree 100% with you bdc. And it seems like most people on this board do not support or understand the difference between Israel and Palestine terror. So it amazes me that we call everyone a terroirst but not Israel and Bush has backed Israel 100% on this. </p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p><span class="postbody">A few years ago, Ehud Barak was willing to give
the Palestinians EVERYTHING THEY WANTED. You read that correctly.
Complete autonomy in the West Bank and in Gaza, capital in Jerusalem,
etc. YASSER ARAFAT REFUSED, because they want the whole country.</span>&nbsp;</p><p>Wrong. You might want to stop listening to far right Israeli propagandists (of which there are many in this country, where its easy to be one) to get your info, and delve a little deeper into the details of that deal, which are critical to understanding it.&nbsp;<br /> </p><p>What was offered was leaving the Jewish settlements in place, which were/are scattered throughout the West Bank and Gaza, plus supply routes to be defended by the Israli military. In other words? SWISS CHEESE. THe Palestinians would have still been surrounded by the Israli military and would not have been able to move freely throughout their country. Basically, they would have still been under Israel's thumb. <br /> </p><p>THe clever way the far right Israelis sell this to uninformed people is to say &quot;We offered them 95% of the <em>land </em>they wanted&quot; THat last 5% would have meant effectively little would have changed, and they know it.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Se7en]

<font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3"><span>What people don't realized is that before the State of Israel was established, Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine got along quite well -- much like Christians and Jews living in Arabia did around the time of Muhammad.<br /></span><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">What Arabs object to is having Palestinians stripped of their land in order to foster a Jewish majority. As Saudi King 'Abd Al-'Aziz told FDR, &quot;if you want to repay the Jews for their suffering give them land in Germany, not Palestine&quot;. </font></p></font></font><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Incorrect.</font></p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3"><font size="3"><font face="times new roman,times,serif">Do you know who got a lot of praise from several Arab nations in 1935?&nbsp; Adolf Hitler, after passing the Nuremberg racial laws.&nbsp; You can read more about it <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf15.html#b" target="_self">here</a>.&nbsp; The sheer amount of anti-Jewish propaganda that runs through Arab nations is staggering and nauseating.&nbsp; It's based largely on racial and religious hatred of the Jews.&nbsp; </font></font></font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3"><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3">The land is just a bullshit excuse that the Arabs always throw out.&nbsp; Probably because it allows people a way to side against Israel while ignoring the rabid racism and religious intolerance of the Arab nations&nbsp;aligned against her.</font></font><br />&nbsp;</p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3"><font face="Verdana"><font size="1">What was offered was leaving the Jewish settlements in place, which were/are scattered throughout the West Bank and Gaza, plus supply routes to be defended by the Israli military. In other words? SWISS CHEESE. THe Palestinians would have still been surrounded by the Israli military and would not have been able to move freely throughout their country. Basically, they would have still been under Israel's thumb. <br /></font></font></font></font></font><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Quoting from the Jewish Virtual Library (specific topic <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf22.html#w" target="_self">here</a>):</font></p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3">&ldquo;MYTH:&nbsp; <em>Yasser Arafat rejected Ehud Barak's proposals at Camp David and the White House in 2000 because they did not offer the Palestinians a viable state. Palestine would have been denied water, control of its holy places, and would have been divided into cantons surrounded by Israelis. Israel would have also retained control of Jerusalem and denied refugees the right to return.&rdquo;</em><br /></font></font><p><strong><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">FACT</font></strong></p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3">Israeli Prime Minister <font size="+0">Ehud Barak</font> offered to withdraw from 97 percent of the <font size="+0">West Bank</font> and 100 percent of the <font size="+0">Gaza Strip</font>. In addition, he agreed to dismantle 63 isolated <font size="+0">settlements</font>. In exchange for the 5 percent annexation of the West Bank, Israel would increase the size of the Gaza territory by roughly a third. <br /></font></font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Barak also made previously unthinkable concessions on </font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Jerusalem</font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">, agreeing that Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem would become the capital of the new state. The Palestinians would maintain control over their holy places and have &quot;religious sovereignty&quot; over the </font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Temple Mount</font><font face="times new roman,times,ser

[HBox]

<p><span class="postbody">Feel free to dismiss it all as &quot;Zionist propaganda&quot; if you wish.</span></p><p>Done and done.&nbsp; *brushes hands* </p><p>
<br /></p>

[PapaBear]

<p>Given what I've seen on the news this morning, I'll just quote the Circle Jerks.</p><p>we all gotta duck when the shit hits the fan<br /></p><p>This can't be good.</p>

[A.J.]

<strong>Se7en</strong> wrote:<br /><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3">[quote]What people don't realized is that before the State of Israel was established, Jews and Arabs sharing Palestine got along quite well -- much like Christians and Jews living in Arabia did around the time of Muhammad.<br /><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">What Arabs object to is having Palestinians stripped of their land in order to foster a Jewish majority. As Saudi King 'Abd Al-'Aziz told FDR, &quot;if you want to repay the Jews for their suffering give them land in Germany, not Palestine&quot;. </font></p><p>&nbsp;</p></font></font><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Incorrect.</font></p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3"><font size="3"><font face="times new roman,times,serif">Do you know who got a lot of praise from several Arab nations in 1935?&nbsp; Adolf Hitler, after passing the Nuremberg racial laws.&nbsp; You can read more about it <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf15.html#b" target="_self">here</a>.&nbsp; The sheer amount of anti-Jewish propaganda that runs through Arab nations is staggering and nauseating.&nbsp; It's based largely on racial and religious hatred of the Jews.&nbsp; </font></font></font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3"><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3">The land is just a bullshit excuse that the Arabs always throw out.&nbsp; Probably because it allows people a way to side against Israel while ignoring the rabid racism and religious intolerance of the Arab nations&nbsp;aligned against her.</font></font><br />&nbsp;</p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3"><font face="Verdana"><font size="1">What was offered was leaving the Jewish settlements in place, which were/are scattered throughout the West Bank and Gaza, plus supply routes to be defended by the Israli military. In other words? SWISS CHEESE. THe Palestinians would have still been surrounded by the Israli military and would not have been able to move freely throughout their country. Basically, they would have still been under Israel's thumb. <br /></font></font></font></font></font><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Quoting from the Jewish Virtual Library (specific topic <a href="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf22.html#w" target="_self">here</a>):</font></p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3">&ldquo;MYTH:&nbsp; <em>Yasser Arafat rejected Ehud Barak's proposals at Camp David and the White House in 2000 because they did not offer the Palestinians a viable state. Palestine would have been denied water, control of its holy places, and would have been divided into cantons surrounded by Israelis. Israel would have also retained control of Jerusalem and denied refugees the right to return.&rdquo;</em><br /></font></font><p><strong><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">FACT</font></strong></p><font face="times new roman,times,serif"><font size="3">Israeli Prime Minister <font size="+0">Ehud Barak</font> offered to withdraw from 97 percent of the <font size="+0">West Bank</font> and 100 percent of the <font size="+0">Gaza Strip</font>. In addition, he agreed to dismantle 63 isolated <font size="+0">settlements</font>. In exchange for the 5 percent annexation of the West Bank, Israel would increase the size of the Gaza territory by roughly a third. <br /></font></font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Barak also made previously unthinkable concessions on </font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Jerusalem</font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">, agreeing that Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem would become the capital of the new state. The Palestinians would maintain control over their holy places and have &quot;religious sovereignty&quot; over the </font><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">Tem

[CuzBum]

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201627.html" target="_self"><font color="#800080">And a great article from yesterday's Washington Post magazine on the Israeli lobby in the U.S</font></a>.</p><p>This article is unbiased?</p>

[A.J.]

<img height="202" src="http://www.ufrsd.net/UFRES/rif/RIFlogo.jpg" width="288" border="0" />

[CuzBum]

Before I read it, is it unbiased?

[A.J.]

In the sense that it raises questions about the preferential treatment that Israel gets from the U.S., yes.

[Dirtybird12]

<p><font size="3">Looks like Israeli ground troops are now in southern lebanon.</font> </p><p>This is new news to me. CNN has breaking new on the scroll.&nbsp; But thats been there all week. So I dont know how old / new this story is. </p>

[CuzBum]

<p>I'm going to rethink my position on this particular issue. . . <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/blink.gif" border="0" /></p><p><img height="284" alt="Photo" src="http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060724/capt.c3d59e694dc5442fafc396324392654c.czech_republ ic_lebanon_demonstration_ctk102.jpg?x=380&y=284&sig=FmSlAc007UX05pkJ8krNfQ--" width="380" border="0" /></p>

[FUNKMAN]

Today i saw the headline on CNN that Hezbollah shot 130 rockets into Israel. It always seems to be an even number of rockets. You usually hear about a 100 rockets. A 100 rockets this day a hundred rockets that day. Are these Hezbollah really that anal about keeping it an even number?

[Yerdaddy]

<strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br />Today i saw the headline on CNN that Hezbollah shot 130 rockets into Israel. It always seems to be an even number of rockets. You usually hear about a 100 rockets. A 100 rockets this day a hundred rockets that day. Are these Hezbollah really that anal about keeping it an even number? <p>Last time I saw the news on this BBC reported that Hizballah fired 100 rockets into Israel killing 1 person. I think bottle rockets come in packs of 100.</p>

[PapaBear]

Don't be alarmed.... but I'm pretty sure, the origin of&nbsp;all these rockets, can be traced back to 68 guns.

[davidb72]

<p>They (The Israelis) keep it up and they're gonna get the super bottle rocket!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img width="300" height="303" border="0" src="http://www.rakettikeiu.com/kauppa/ap-pics/tuotteet/super-bottle-rocket.jpg" alt="SUPER BOTTLE ROCKET!" title="SUPER BOTTLE ROCKET!" />&nbsp;</p>

[newport king]

what kind of aim is that? 1-100????

[SinA]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>The Israeli army is doing everything it can to minimize civilian casualties, on both sides.&nbsp; They try to target key people and places in Lebanon and defend their own cities.</p><p>Hezbola is trying to maximize civilian casualties.&nbsp; They fire unguided rockets into Israel and hide in populated areas.</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>SinA</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The Israeli army is doing everything it can to minimize civilian casualties, on both sides.&nbsp; They try to target key people and places in Lebanon and defend their own cities.</p><p>Hezbola is trying to maximize civilian casualties.&nbsp; They fire unguided rockets into Israel and hide in populated areas.</p><p>And you know this how? Reports I read show that Lebanon has more civilian casualties so far. Did you see it on Fox News???</p>

[SinA]

<strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SinA</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The Israeli army is doing everything it can to minimize civilian casualties, on both sides.&nbsp; They try to target key people and places in Lebanon and defend their own cities.</p><p>Hezbola is trying to maximize civilian casualties.&nbsp; They fire unguided rockets into Israel and hide in populated areas.</p><p>And you know this how? Reports I read show that Lebanon has more civilian casualties so far. Did you see it on Fox News???</p><p>First of all, you've just supported my point.</p><p>As for the source, you have to <strong>read</strong> news. Nothing on television should be considered as credible journalism.&nbsp; Not even your precious CNN.&nbsp; Check out&nbsp;the Washington Post for starters.</p><p>Then, if you want,&nbsp;you can&nbsp;defend&nbsp;the people that dug a&nbsp;tunnel&nbsp;under a guard&nbsp;booth&nbsp;in order to kidnap the people inside.</p>

[UnknownPD]

<p>And you know this how? Reports I read show that Lebanon has more civilian casualties so far. Did you see it on Fox News???</p><p><font size="2">Man are you as dumb as a box of rocks... Instead of looking for things that echo what you already think. How about reading a newspaper or two.</font></p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>UnknownPD</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>And you know this how? Reports I read show that Lebanon has more civilian casualties so far. Did you see it on Fox News??? <p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">Man are you as dumb as a box of rocks... Instead of looking for things that echo what you already think. How about reading a newspaper or two.</font></p><p>See that is why you are dumb! I read newspapers and online news. I think you should stop watching your one sided tv and reading your righty papers and look at both sides for once. I know its hard to see that others different from you.</p><p><font size="1"><strong>Lebanon </strong>481-750 dead, 480-1100 wounded</font></p><p><font size="1"><strong>Israel&nbsp; </strong>19 dead, 418 wounded</font></p><p><font size="1">Those are civilian casualties. </font></p><p><font size="1">Oh I know what you will say next. Lebanon is targeting civilians but they missed!</font></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict</a></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by CampoNJ on 8-1-06 @ 2:29 PM</span>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>SinA</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SinA</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The Israeli army is doing everything it can to minimize civilian casualties, on both sides.&nbsp; They try to target key people and places in Lebanon and defend their own cities.</p><p>Hezbola is trying to maximize civilian casualties.&nbsp; They fire unguided rockets into Israel and hide in populated areas.</p><p>And you know this how? Reports I read show that Lebanon has more civilian casualties so far. Did you see it on Fox News???</p><p>First of all, you've just supported my point.</p><p>As for the source, you have to <strong>read</strong> news. Nothing on television should be considered as credible journalism.&nbsp; Not even your precious CNN.&nbsp; Check out&nbsp;the Washington Post for starters.</p><p>Then, if you want,&nbsp;you can&nbsp;defend&nbsp;the people that dug a&nbsp;tunnel&nbsp;under a guard&nbsp;booth&nbsp;in order to kidnap the people inside.</p><p>How did I support your point? Me questioning you doesnt support your point it questions where you get your #'s and for you to show those #'s that support your thoughts. In my above post I show the casualties on both sides. </p>

[SinA]

<p>Ok. I can accept that.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And let me just say that I'm not taking sides here. Until the IRA gets involved, I'm just a passive observer.</p>

[UnknownPD]

<p><font size="1">Oh I know what you will say next. Lebanon is targeting civilians but they missed!</font></p><p><font size="2">Does your head rattle when you move it?</font></p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>UnknownPD</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><font size="1">Oh I know what you will say next. Lebanon is targeting civilians but they missed!</font> <p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">Does your head rattle when you move it?</font></p><p>Nice idiotic comeback, but I have real evidence to prove what I speak about and you have NOTHING.</p>

[SinA]

<strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>UnknownPD</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>And you know this how? Reports I read show that Lebanon has more civilian casualties so far. Did you see it on Fox News??? <p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">Man are you as dumb as a box of rocks... Instead of looking for things that echo what you already think. How about reading a newspaper or two.</font></p><p>See that is why you are dumb! I read newspapers and online news. I think you should stop watching your one sided tv and reading your righty papers and look at both sides for once. I know its hard to see that others different from you.</p><p><font size="1"><strong>Lebanon </strong>481-750 dead, 480-1100 wounded</font></p><p><font size="1"><strong>Israel&nbsp; </strong>19 dead, 418 wounded</font></p><p><font size="1">Those are civilian casualties. </font></p><p><font size="1">Oh I know what you will say next. Lebanon is targeting civilians but they missed!</font></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict</a></p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by CampoNJ on 8-1-06 @ 2:29 PM</span> <p>i was all set to move on, but i'm so right about this that i had to kick the horse one more time:</p><p>The <strong>Lebanese</strong> casualties are the result, directly and indirectly, of <strong>Hezbollah's</strong> activities.&nbsp; They put the Lebanese civilians in harms' way to begin with, then use them as a shield when attacking the Israeli troops.&nbsp; They're hiding among innocent people, thereby putting them at risk.&nbsp; Israel's retaliation is through air-strikes&nbsp;aimed at the Hezbollah leaders, and even their most precise&nbsp;hits will cause collateral casualties.&nbsp; </p><p>Hezbollah (not the same as Lebanon), isn't missing civilians.&nbsp; They're firing indiscriminately&nbsp;at Israel.</p>

[mikeyboy]

I haven't been following this thread, but at least on the last page it seems to be devolving into personal attacks.&nbsp; If you can't discuss the topics in this forum without resorting to personal attacks, then you will not be welcome to post at all.

[davidb72]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>SinA</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p>Then, if you want, you can defend the people that dug a tunnel under a guard booth in order to kidnap the people inside.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You gotta admit, that's pretty clever...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And I can totally understand how two soldiers (military personnel that signed up to be in a &quot;war&quot;) being captured justifies killing and displacing countless civilians. That's not even a question.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[UnknownPD]

<p>And I can totally understand how two soldiers (military personnel that signed up to be in a &quot;war&quot;) being captured justifies killing and displacing countless civilians. That's not even a question.</p><p>So, what would have been an appropriate response?</p>

[HBox]

No matter what side you take, you ALWAYS end up looking bad.<br />

[davidb72]

<p>
At least 548 Lebanese have been killed since the fighting began three
weeks ago, including 477 civilians and 25 Lebanese soldiers and at
least 46 Hezbollah guerrillas. The health minister says the toll could
be as high as 750, including those still buried in rubble or missing.
</p><p>
In all, 55 Israelis have died &mdash; 36 soldiers as well as 19 civilians killed in Hezbollah rocket attacks.
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>davidb72</strong> wrote:<br /><p>At least 548 Lebanese have been killed since the fighting began three weeks ago, including 477 civilians and 25 Lebanese soldiers and at least 46 Hezbollah guerrillas. The health minister says the toll could be as high as 750, including those still buried in rubble or missing. </p><p>In all, 55 Israelis have died &mdash; 36 soldiers as well as 19 civilians killed in Hezbollah rocket attacks. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel</p><p>Very good to see someone else looking up information before they speak. Good post!</p>

[joeyballsack]

<p>I dont know if those numbers prove who is wrong or not. </p><p>It seems to me that the Isrealis are just better at protecting thier citizens than Lebanon is. If Lebanon had done the right thing in the first place, and curtailed the Hezbollah militias inside their borders, they wouldnt be having the problems they are now. </p><p>It also shouldnt really matter how many people the Isrealis went to war over. Governments are set up to protect their citizens. If they start determining whether one or two people is not worth protecting, that is setting a bad precedent. </p><p>Who determines the number that is worth it ? I am pretty sure the families of those two Isrealis believe they are worth it..I know I would if it was my family. </p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>joeyballsack</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I dont know if those numbers prove who is wrong or not. </p><p>It seems to me that the Isrealis are just better at protecting thier citizens than Lebanon is. If Lebanon had done the right thing in the first place, and curtailed the Hezbollah militias inside their borders, they wouldnt be having the problems they are now. </p><p>It also shouldnt really matter how many people the Isrealis went to war over. Governments are set up to protect their citizens. If they start determining whether one or two people is not worth protecting, that is setting a bad precedent. </p><p>Who determines the number that is worth it ? I am pretty sure the families of those two Isrealis believe they are worth it..I know I would if it was my family. </p><p>I agree with you a little, but the Israelis didnt need to bomb a whole country over 2 soldiers. No one is saying that Lebanon is 100% right, but they are not always the terrorist. I see it from both sides. What some people call terroists others call their soldiers. Dont you think that the Leboneese (spelling?) people think that Israel&nbsp;is the&nbsp;Terrorists? Of course they do. A lot of contry's think what Israel is doing is considered terrorism. </p><p>I dont personally have a problem with Israel, I think they should have the right to protect themselves But I do see that all the problems started when Israel was given or took or whatever land 50+ years ago. </p><p>Will this ever stop while Israel the nation is spread out on other nation property? I dont think so. But what could you do? Israel deserves a home but none of those arab country's want them on their former land. </p><p>Very touchy and tricky problem that may never be resolved.</p>

[FlashVirus]

<p><span class="postbody">but the Israelis didnt need to bomb a whole country over 2 soldiers</span></p><p>&nbsp;Well then, how many israeli soldiers need to be kidnapped for Israel to do something? You can't view these soldiers as worthless and replacable. israel should have the right to fight the terroist that took them.<br /></p>

[UnknownPD]

<p><font size="2">When you hide your munitions among the civilian population you have more civilian casualties. Israel has done everything it can to avoid civilian deaths while Hezbollah has done everything it can to sacrifice civilians to further its PR campaign. <font size="1">(Quite effectively)</font></font></p><p><font size="2">This&nbsp;organization that claims to care about civilian deaths is the same one that will put a suicide bomber on a bus and indiscriminatly kill women and children. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.</font></p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>mikeyboy</strong> wrote:<br />I haven't been following this thread, but at least on the last page it seems to be devolving into personal attacks. If you can't discuss the topics in this forum without resorting to personal attacks, then you will not be welcome to post at all.<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Mike, I listen to NPR occasionally. And even there the minute you say the word &quot;Israel&quot; people start attacking each other. One host even pre-warns the callers to try to keep it civil, and it never works. </p><p>So good luck. &nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>UnknownPD</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font size="2">When you hide your munitions among the civilian population you have more civilian casualties. Israel has done everything it can to avoid civilian deaths while Hezbollah has done everything it can to sacrifice civilians to further its PR campaign. <font size="1">(Quite effectively)</font></font></p><p><font size="2">This&nbsp;organization that claims to care about civilian deaths is the same one that will put a suicide bomber on a bus and indiscriminatly kill women and children. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.</font></p><p>I think the sucide bombers are a huge problem and I dont think killing women is any worse then Killing Men ( I never understood why a mans death isnt as important as a womens). They are all humans and the fact that those type of people exist is scary. How could any sane person strap a bomb on and kill themselves to make a point? I dont get it.</p>

[Meatball]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Israel didnt go to war &quot;over 2 soldiers&quot;. The 2 soldiers were the straw that broke the camels back - since Hez has been firing THOUSANDS of rockets into Israel for the last SIX years. &nbsp;Israel &quot;ignored&quot; it because these missles were relatively short range and not hitting anyone. But recently HEZ got there hands on Ketushah rockets capable of hitting Haifa - Israel's 3rd largest city. They started to fire these AND they kiddnapped 2 soldiers,,,and what everyone forgets..killed 8 in the process of the&nbsp;kiddnapping.</p><p>Enough became enough.</p>

[davidb72]

<p>This is such an ugly, complicated mess.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Who knows who is right or wrong? Justified or unjustified?&nbsp;</p>