Atheist President?

[Yerdaddy]

<p>Spin-off of the Woman President thread; would you vote for an atheist for president? </p><p>I'm pretty sure that a Vietnamese transexual would have a better chance at becoming president than an atheist if he/she were Christian.</p>

[Snoogans]

id vote for an athiest probably first after seeing how much influence religion has had on certain people's decision making<br />

[Gvac]

<p>Without trying to sound too much like Bill Clinton and get into semantics, I'd need a clarification of just what the candidate felt &quot;atheism&quot; meant.&nbsp; When the United States first declared independence, the founding fathers made sure the wording stressed that our rights came from a power far greater than any earthly government.&nbsp; The government exists merely to ensure those rights.&nbsp; Anyone who thinks they are the be all and end all is a dangerous character in my eyes, and they share a philosophy with facists and communists.&nbsp;</p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><font size="2">When in the Course of human events it becomes
necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have
connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the
earth, the separate and equal station <span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">to which the Laws of Nature and
of Nature's God entitle them,</span> a decent respect to the opinions of
mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them
to the separation.</font>
<p><font size="2">We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men
are created equal, <span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">that they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit
of Happiness. &mdash; That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted
among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed</span></font></p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That being said, I also find it extremely distasteful for a person who is the leader of what is supposed to be the freest country on the planet pushing his religious beliefs on the citizens. &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

[booster11373]

I truly hope that sometime in our existence that devoted belief in a watching god in the sky who keeps tabs on us will be looked upon as a mental illness

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by booster11373 on 7-16-06 @ 1:40 PM</span>

[Dougie Brootal]

<p>i will only vote for an atheist. christians have destroyed this country, IMHO.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>but we all know that it will never happen anyway.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br />I truly hope that sometime in our existence that devoted belief in a watching god in the sky who keeps tabs on us will be looked upon as a mental illness <p>Exactly.</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br />I truly hope that sometime in our existence that devoted belief in a watching god in the sky who keeps tabs on us will be looked upon as a mental illness

<span class="post_edited">This message was edited by booster11373 on 7-16-06 @ 1:40 PM</span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Well, being that 91% of Americans believe in God or a higher power, and 86% of the world believes the same thing, I guess that won't be happening any time soon. But thanks for your concern over our mental health.&nbsp;</p>

[booster11373]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br />I truly hope that sometime in our existence that devoted belief in a watching god in the sky who keeps tabs on us will be looked upon as a mental illness <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by booster11373 on 7-16-06 @ 1:40 PM</span> <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Well, being that 91% of Americans believe in God or a higher power, and 86% of the world believes the same thing, I guess that won't be happening any time soon. But thanks for your concern over our mental health.&nbsp;</p><p>People also used to believe the world was flat.</p>

[cougarjake13]

<strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br />I truly hope that sometime in our existence that devoted belief in a watching god in the sky who keeps tabs on us will be looked upon as a mental illness <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by booster11373 on 7-16-06 @ 1:40 PM</span> <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Well, being that 91% of Americans believe in God or a higher power, and 86% of the world believes the same thing, I guess that won't be happening any time soon. But thanks for your concern over our mental health.&nbsp;</p><p>People also used to believe the world was flat.</p><p>and that the earth was the center of the universe</p><p><img height="100" src="http://home.comcast.net/~bob80/RFnetCougarJake13.jpg" width="300" border="0" /></p>

[DarkHippie]

<strong>Gvac</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Without trying to sound too much like Bill Clinton and get into semantics, I'd need a clarification of just what the candidate felt &quot;atheism&quot; meant.&nbsp; When the United States first declared independence, the founding fathers made sure the wording stressed that our rights came from a power far greater than any earthly government.&nbsp; The government exists merely to ensure those rights.&nbsp; Anyone who thinks they are the be all and end all is a dangerous character in my eyes, and they share a philosophy with facists and communists.&nbsp;</p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><font size="2">When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station <span style="background-color: rgb(255,255,0)">to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,</span> a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.</font> <p><font size="2">We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, <span style="background-color: rgb(255,255,0)">that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. &mdash; That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed</span></font></p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That being said, I also find it extremely distasteful for a person who is the leader of what is supposed to be the freest country on the planet pushing his religious beliefs on the citizens. &nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p>interestingly, Thomas Jefferson considered himself a unitarian.&nbsp; He added the religious stuff into the declaration as a compromise to the more devout members of the continental congress.&nbsp; Jefferson refused to specifically mention Christ or anything more specific then nature's god.</p><p>I am fucking gay for Thomas Jefferson.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br />I truly hope that sometime in our existence that devoted belief in a watching god in the sky who keeps tabs on us will be looked upon as a mental illness <span class="post_edited">This message was edited by booster11373 on 7-16-06 @ 1:40 PM</span> <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Well, being that 91% of Americans believe in God or a higher power, and 86% of the world believes the same thing, I guess that won't be happening any time soon. But thanks for your concern over our mental health.&nbsp;</p><p>You'd believe salt can cure AIDS if it was pounded into your head every week since you were born.</p>

[docgoblin]

I had nothing pounded into my head. I was brought up Catholic, and when I was old enough I began to explore all other beliefs, secular and non-secular. While Science and technology has proven that the Earth is not flat, No one has yet <strong><em>proven</em></strong> that there is no higher power. I'm not a religious nut. I rarely attend church anymore. I also agree that people should not push their religion on others. But I also believe Its incredibly pretentious for you to call 86% of the world's population insane if they believe in something that you don't. <br />

[JimBeam]

<p>DocGoblins point is right on as relates to the &quot; we used to think the world was flat &quot;</p><p>Well science has proven that that is not the case but I've missed any facts that there isnt a God.</p><p>Why is not beliveing in a God so much more&nbsp;&quot; sane &quot; than believing in one ?</p><p>Because its trendy ?</p><p>In regards to the Atheist President I think you'd have a problem w/ the fact that our money says In God We Trust and he'd have to publicly say there is no God and thus say that the money is worthless.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[suggums]

christopher walken for president<br />

[docgoblin]

Also, the atheist thing invokes a sense of a lack of moral values (whether its true or not). Most Americans would never vote for someone who declares themselves an atheist for just that reason. I doubt, given his infidelities, that Clinton is seriously religious. He had to put up that facade however or he'd never have been elected. Despite his shortcomings, I think he was a very good President. I don't think his religious beliefs, or lack thereof, have anything to do with it.<br />

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br />Also, the atheist thing invokes a sense of a lack of moral values (whether its true or not). Most Americans would never vote for someone who declares themselves an atheist for just that reason. I doubt, given his infidelities, that Clinton is seriously religious. He had to put up that facade however or he'd never have been elected. Despite his shortcomings, I think he was a very good President. I don't think his religious beliefs, or lack thereof, have anything to do with it.<br /><p>That's only because people are brainwashed to believe that no good can come about in this world with &quot;The Lord.&quot;</p>

[HBox]

<p>There was a study done recently that said Mormons were second only to atheists as a group of people that voters wouldn't consider voting for. And it turned out that the more a person went to church, the less likely they'd be to vote for a Mormon.</p><p>I think its more due to intolerance than anything else.&nbsp;</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br />Also, the atheist thing invokes a sense of a lack of moral values (whether its true or not). Most Americans would never vote for someone who declares themselves an atheist for just that reason. I doubt, given his infidelities, that Clinton is seriously religious. He had to put up that facade however or he'd never have been elected. Despite his shortcomings, I think he was a very good President. I don't think his religious beliefs, or lack thereof, have anything to do with it.<br /><p>That's only because people are brainwashed to believe that no good can come about in this world with &quot;The Lord.&quot;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm not sure you meant what you wrote, but here you go again with the &quot;brainwashing.&quot; I'll say it again... I don't believe that 86% of the global population is brainwashed. There aren't enough Carnies on the planet to do the job.</p><p>BTW... I <em><strong>DO</strong></em> wish someone would knock <font size="1">Shirley Phelps-Roper's teeth down her throat (although she's a riot on the show)!<br /></font></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

I don't write things I don't mean.

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>In regards to the Atheist President I think you'd have a problem w/ the fact that our money says In God We Trust and he'd have to publicly say there is no God and thus say that the money is worthless.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>how does that make money worthless? if there is a god, our money is already worthless to him/her/it.</p><p>hasnt anyone ever told you that &quot;ou cant buy your way into heaven&quot;</p><p>what about &quot;mney is the root of all evil&quot;?</p><p>how does printing &quot;in god we trust&quot; on a piece of paper make it worth something?</p>

[Marc with a c]

<p>all i know is god hates fags.</p><p>and i would never vote for a swedish president.</p>

[HBox]

<p><span class="postbody">In regards to the Atheist President I think
you'd have a problem w/ the fact that our money says In God We Trust
and he'd have to publicly say there is no God and thus say that the
money is worthless.</span></p><p><span class="postbody">&quot;</span>Mr. Madison, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have
ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you
even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.
Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award
you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.&quot;</p>

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody">In regards to the Atheist President I think you'd have a problem w/ the fact that our money says In God We Trust and he'd have to publicly say there is no God and thus say that the money is worthless. </span><p>&nbsp;</p><p><span class="postbody"><font color="#000080"><font size="2">&quot;Mr. Madison, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.&quot;</font></font></span>Mr. Madison, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.&quot;</p><p><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" /></p><p><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" border="0" /></p>

[JimBeam]

<p>But isnt if believing in a God, whatever God, a good thing if even in the least it did was make people do things for others because they fear retribution ?</p><p>I mean people who may give to charities or help old ladies across streets because they belive in a God are still doing a good deed regardless of their motivation.</p><p>Now religious beliefs have led to a lot of bad things too thats not being debated but I'm sure the good in religious belief far outweighs the bad.</p>

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>But isnt if believing in a God, whatever God, a good thing if even in the least it did was make people do things for others because they fear retribution ?</p><p>I mean people who may give to charities or help old ladies across streets because they belive in a God are still doing a good deed regardless of their motivation.</p><p>Now religious beliefs have led to a lot of bad things too thats not being debated but I'm sure the good in religious belief far outweighs the bad.</p><p>helping old ladies cross the street outweighs flying a packed jet airliner into a building filled with thousands of people?</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>JimBeam</strong> wrote:<br /><p>But isnt if believing in a God, whatever God, a good thing if even in the least it did was make people do things for others because they fear retribution ?</p><p>I mean people who may give to charities or help old ladies across streets because they belive in a God are still doing a good deed regardless of their motivation.</p><p>Now religious beliefs have led to a lot of bad things too thats not being debated but I'm sure the good in religious belief far outweighs the bad.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It doesn't neccessarily mean anything at all, just like being an atheist doesn't neccessarily mean aything at all.&nbsp;</p>

[JimBeam]

<p>Again I'm sure that 80% of the murders in the world are not&nbsp;committed in the name of Jesus, Alah, Buddha, etc ...&nbsp;</p><p>But how many people do you think avoid being murdered because tjheir potential nurdered&nbsp;feared reprisals from those same names ?</p><p>let's not even take it as far as murder.</p><p>What about lying and stealing which are failry minor things.</p><p>Dont you think a lot of people avoid doing those because they believe it to be wrong in a religious sense more than a legal sense ?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />I don't write things I don't mean.<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;Then I'm totally confused by this statement you made: </p><p><em><strong><span class="postbody">That's only because people are brainwashed to believe that no good can come about in this world with &quot;The Lord.&quot;</span></strong></em></p><p>Do you really mean that most of us believe that no good can come about because of the Lord? It seems to be contradictory to what most actually believe. </p><p>It seems your statement should read: </p><p><span class="postbody">That's only because people are brainwashed to believe that no good can come about in this world <em><strong>without</strong><strong /></em> &quot;The Lord.&quot;</span></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>or it could read:</p><p><span class="postbody">That's only because people are brainwashed to believe that <strong><em>only</em></strong> good can come about in this world with &quot;The Lord.&quot;</span></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Maybe I am just getting your intent wrong, if so I apologize.&nbsp;</p>

[SatCam]

No, only because believers are smarter than atheists

[Dougie Brootal]

<p><img height="242" src="http://www.sordeo.com/articles/bigimages/stupid.gif" width="246" border="0" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />No, only because believers are smarter than atheists

[Death Metal Moe]

Way to pick apart a typo smart guy.

[CuzBum]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />Way to pick apart a typo smart guy. <p>How can it be a typo, you mean everything you say, did you intentionally put a typo into your statement?</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>I honestly wasn't sure if I was just misinterpreting what you wrote. I wasn't intentionally being an asswhack.</p><p>Usually I'm very obvious when I'm being a d*ck.&nbsp;</p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />Way to pick apart a typo smart guy. <p>How can it be a typo, you mean everything you say, did you intentionally put a typo into your statement?</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/laugh.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />Way to pick apart a typo smart guy. <p>How can it be a typo, you mean everything you say, did you intentionally put a typo into your statement?</p><p>Touche.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Well I guess I made an ass of myself again.</p><p>Enjoy your religion, just keep it out of my life and our government.</p>

[CuzBum]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well I guess I made an ass of myself again.</p><p>Enjoy your religion, just keep it out of my life and our government.</p><p>Moe, i'm gonna send a couple of guys in cheap suits who ride bicycles to your house with some pamphlets. Salvation lies within Moe.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/thumbup.gif" border="0" /></p>

[sr71blackbird]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />Way to pick apart a typo smart guy. <p>Honestly, I was as confused by it as the rest of 'em!</p>

[ADF]

<p>All things being equal, I would vote for an athiest over a religious person.&nbsp; A moral atheist acts in the interest of his fellow humans whereas a religious person may have other motives.</p><p>Being an atheist does not make one a better person (although in my opinion he is acting in a more logical manner), but it does mean that he would only be acting to benefit the temporal (and only) world, better representing all of his constituents.<br /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well I guess I made an ass of myself again.</p><p>Enjoy your religion, just keep it out of my life and our government.</p><p>Moe, i'm gonna send a couple of guys in cheap suits who ride bicycles to your house with some pamphlets. Salvation lies within Moe.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/thumbup.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Go ahead.&nbsp; I'd like to frighten Jehova's Witnesses away from my house again.</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>ADF</strong> wrote:<br /><p>All things being equal, I would vote for an athiest over a religious person. A moral atheist acts in the interest of his fellow humans whereas a religious person may have other motives.</p><p>Being an atheist does not make one a better person (although in my opinion he is acting in a more logical manner), but it does mean that he would only be acting to benefit the temporal (and only) world, better representing all of his constituents.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Okay, but here is the crux of the matter. According to you the &quot;religious&quot; person may have other motives, and not tolerate the non-religious. This is the feeling I'm getting from the anti-religious posters in this thread. However, throughout this thread Moe has continually confirmed that he will, in no way, tolerate a religious person, or even a person like me who has a slight bit of faith in a higher being. I, on the other hand, being a person of some faith, has demonstrated that I can tolerate people who do not believe what I believe. </p><p>Who would make the better President... The completely closed minded Atheist Moe, or the open minded somewhat religious me?&nbsp;</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>I never said I can't stand people who have faith.&nbsp; I just know they're mislead.</p><p>And I don't like how a lot of religious people think an athiest can't have real morals just because they don't have a religion in their lives.&nbsp; Morals don't stem from religion.&nbsp; Most times they're twisted by religion.</p>

[docgoblin]

When you agree that people who believe in a God or a higher being are insane and should be institutionalized, then you are indeed acting just as intolerant as the Puritans who burned people as non-believers.<br />

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Well then I'm a horrible person.</p><p>I don't like to see people believe a fairytale their entires lives then get the big dick up the ass when they die when nothing happens.</p>

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>ADF</strong> wrote:<br /><p>All things being equal, I would vote for an athiest over a religious person. A moral atheist acts in the interest of his fellow humans whereas a religious person may have other motives.</p><p>Being an atheist does not make one a better person (although in my opinion he is acting in a more logical manner), but it does mean that he would only be acting to benefit the temporal (and only) world, better representing all of his constituents.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Okay, but here is the crux of the matter. According to you the &quot;religious&quot; person may have other motives, and not tolerate the non-religious. This is the feeling I'm getting from the anti-religious posters in this thread. However, throughout this thread Moe has continually confirmed that he will, in no way, tolerate a religious person, or even a person like me who has a slight bit of faith in a higher being. I, on the other hand, being a person of some faith, has demonstrated that I can tolerate people who do not believe what I believe. </p><p>Who would make the better President... The completely closed minded Atheist Moe, or the open minded somewhat religious me?&nbsp;</p><p>in my case its not that i can not tolerate a religious person, its just that i dont feel like im being represented by one any longer.im all for gay marriage, which the religious right says is wrong and goes against a god i dont believe in, so we cant have it. im all for stem cell research, which has the possibility to cure diabetes, which i have suffered from for almost 10 years, (and anyone who doubts that this is a horrible disease, and that it doesnt cause constant suffering or pain or worry can suck my fucking heathen dick),&nbsp;is wrong and goes against&nbsp;a god i dont even believe in, therefore we cant have that either, so the suffering continues for&nbsp; countless people to appease a god that they may not even believe in!! i just dont want to have some one represent me who doesnt have my best interest at heart.</p>

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well then I'm a horrible person.</p><p>I don't like to see people believe a fairytale their entires lives then get the big dick up the ass when they die when nothing happens.</p><p>but what if they like big dick up their ass??</p>

[docgoblin]

This is like talking to a brick wall. No one said you are horrible. Maybe you should just let people believe what they want. Then, if they happen to invade your space, shoo them away, just as I do with the Jehovas that come to my door. As far as what happens when you die... Who cares? You're dead! There's nothing you can do about it at that point. Let the 86% believe what they believe. The other 14% can believe what they believe, and when we're all in the dirt it ain't gonna matter one bit if you and I agreed with each other. Tolerance is the key here on earth. I know there are religious nuts that have no tolerance for those outside their beliefs. They're assholes too. But for those who don't believe in anything to show no tolerance for those who do is wrong also.<br />

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>douggrasso</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well then I'm a horrible person.</p><p>I don't like to see people believe a fairytale their entires lives then get the big dick up the ass when they die when nothing happens.</p><p>but what if they like big dick up their ass??</p><p>Then they wouldn't have been going to Christian heaven anyway.</p>

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>douggrasso</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well then I'm a horrible person.</p><p>I don't like to see people believe a fairytale their entires lives then get the big dick up the ass when they die when nothing happens.</p><p>but what if they like big dick up their ass??</p><p>Then they wouldn't have been going to Christian heaven anyway.</p><p>hey this is a little off topic, but is there a seperate religion for gays and lesbians that condemn heteros?</p><p>just a thought.</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>douggrasso</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>ADF</strong> wrote:<br /><p>All things being equal, I would vote for an athiest over a religious person. A moral atheist acts in the interest of his fellow humans whereas a religious person may have other motives.</p><p>Being an atheist does not make one a better person (although in my opinion he is acting in a more logical manner), but it does mean that he would only be acting to benefit the temporal (and only) world, better representing all of his constituents.<br /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Okay, but here is the crux of the matter. According to you the &quot;religious&quot; person may have other motives, and not tolerate the non-religious. This is the feeling I'm getting from the anti-religious posters in this thread. However, throughout this thread Moe has continually confirmed that he will, in no way, tolerate a religious person, or even a person like me who has a slight bit of faith in a higher being. I, on the other hand, being a person of some faith, has demonstrated that I can tolerate people who do not believe what I believe. </p><p>Who would make the better President... The completely closed minded Atheist Moe, or the open minded somewhat religious me? </p><p>in my case its not that i can not tolerate a religious person, its just that i dont feel like im being represented by one any longer.im all for gay marriage, which the religious right says is wrong and goes against a god i dont believe in, so we cant have it. im all for stem cell research, which has the possibility to cure diabetes, which i have suffered from for almost 10 years, (and anyone who doubts that this is a horrible disease, and that it doesnt cause constant suffering or pain or worry can suck my fucking heathen dick), is wrong and goes against a god i dont even believe in, therefore we cant have that either, so the suffering continues for countless people to appease a god that they may not even believe in!! i just dont want to have some one represent me who doesnt have my best interest at heart.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And you know what... I also don't care if gay people get married, and i think stem cell research is very important. Do you really think these things are not going to happen in the next few years? The tide has been turning towards a more liberal attitude in this country for many years. And that's with the 91% who still believe in some higher power. Do you seriously feel that we are not going to continue to progress as we have done in the last few decades? I don't think it can be stopped. &nbsp;</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Well all the major religions are against gays and against the abortions needed to harvest stem cells.</p><p>You can't pick and choose what you agree with in your religion.&nbsp; It's agree or be damned.</p>

[JohnnyCard]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I never said I can't stand people who have faith.&nbsp; I just know they're mislead.</p><p>How do you <em><strong>know</strong></em> they are misled?&nbsp; I understand if you <em><strong>think</strong></em> they are misled, <em><strong>believe</strong></em> they are misled, or in your honest <strong><em>opinion</em></strong> they are misled, but how do you <strong><em>know</em></strong>?</p><p>Someone posted earlier that there is no scientific proof of either the existence or non-existence of a supreme being.</p>

[JohnnyCard]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I don't like to see people believe a fairytale their entires lives then get the big dick up the ass when they die when nothing happens.</p><p>Why don't you like it?&nbsp; Why do you care?&nbsp; If its having no direct affect on you, why give a fuck? For example, if someone wants to believe the moon is made of cheese,&nbsp;who cares?&nbsp; If that belief gets&nbsp;that person&nbsp;through the day, more power to them.</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well all the major religions are against gays and against the abortions needed to harvest stem cells.</p><p>You can't pick and choose what you agree with in your religion. It's agree or be damned.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I never said I wouldn't be damned. I said I believe in God. I'm pretty sure, according to the rules of the Catholic church, I will be damned. There are many in this world who are in the same boat.<br /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>JohnnyCard</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I don't like to see people believe a fairytale their entires lives then get the big dick up the ass when they die when nothing happens.</p><p>Why don't you like it?&nbsp; Why do you care?&nbsp; If its having no direct affect on you, why give a fuck? For example, if someone wants to believe the moon is made of cheese,&nbsp;who cares?&nbsp; If that belief gets&nbsp;that person&nbsp;through the day, more power to them.</p><p>Oh if only it didn't have an effect on me.&nbsp; Our president makes faith based descisions.&nbsp; Religious people look down their noses at you and sometimes try to only deal with their own.&nbsp; Religions use their pull to get politicians to vote certian ways based on their beliefs.</p><p>Keep your stupid fairytales out of my government.&nbsp; No one cares what you think.</p>

[booster11373]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br />When you agree that people who believe in a God or a higher being are insane and should be institutionalized, then you are indeed acting just as intolerant as the Puritans who burned people as non-believers.<br /><p>actually my words were along the all seeing all knowing tall guy with white beard that will punish you for jerking off or having sex before marriage. If there is a god I think&nbsp;it could care less about what happen around here</p><p>You telling me that people like the Kansas bunch that hates gays or Pat Robertson who talks to god are sane?</p><p>There are lots of mental illnesses that don't require being hospitalized just medication</p><p>Religion has always been about control, I just hope that one day my fellow man will relize that its better to be a good person in this world during the here and now instead of just doing things so that you will impress a magic man</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>JohnnyCard</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I never said I can't stand people who have faith.&nbsp; I just know they're mislead.</p><p>How do you <em><strong>know</strong></em> they are misled?&nbsp; I understand if you <em><strong>think</strong></em> they are misled, <em><strong>believe</strong></em> they are misled, or in your honest <strong><em>opinion</em></strong> they are misled, but how do you <strong><em>know</em></strong>?</p><p>Someone posted earlier that there is no scientific proof of either the existence or non-existence of a supreme being.</p><p>Do I really have to end EVERTHING I say about religion with &quot;in my opinion?&quot;&nbsp; It's just my opinion.&nbsp; Just like religious people feel God is in their lives, I feel that if there is a God, he is in no way hoping we follow our lives according to man's religions and they're feel good stories to help people deal with the pains of life and death.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote: <strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well all the major religions are against gays and against the abortions needed to harvest stem cells.</p><p>You can't pick and choose what you agree with in your religion. It's agree or be damned.</p><p>I never said I wouldn't be damned. I said I believe in God. I'm pretty sure, according to the rules of the Catholic church, I will be damned. There are many in this world who are in the same boat.<br /></p><p>Then why bother?&nbsp; Why stick up for a religion you're sure will damn you?&nbsp; Cut the cancer out of your life and live for yourself.</p>

[docgoblin]

Come on Moe please stop! Its been in the government for 230 years. The country was built on Judeo-Christian values. They've been saying an opening prayer in each house of congress since each house was created. Its not going away in our lifetime. Get over it! God Dammit!... Oh, now do you see what you made me do?!?!<br />

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote: <strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well all the major religions are against gays and against the abortions needed to harvest stem cells.</p><p>You can't pick and choose what you agree with in your religion. It's agree or be damned.</p><p>I never said I wouldn't be damned. I said I believe in God. I'm pretty sure, according to the rules of the Catholic church, I will be damned. There are many in this world who are in the same boat.<br /></p><p>Then why bother? Why stick up for a religion you're sure will damn you? Cut the cancer out of your life and live for yourself.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I don't stick up for a religion, I stick up for the fact there is a Creator. It has nothing to do with my religion.&nbsp;</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>This thread was never about 'Will religion finally be conqured?&quot; it was about if you would vote for an athiest president.&nbsp; It just became this.</p><p>I know I'm going to be stuck fighting against religion my whole life.&nbsp; But I'd love for it all to disappear tomorrow and if I see an opening to get rid of it, I'd take it.</p>

[docgoblin]

Ugh! I give up! You guys turned it into this when you said people who believe in a &quot;Man in the Sky&quot; had a mental disease.<br />

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by docgoblin on 7-16-06 @ 11:57 PM</span>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>FINALLY!</p><p>PAGANS - 1</p><p>Baby Jesus - 0</p>

[JohnnyCard]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>JohnnyCard</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I don't like to see people believe a fairytale their entires lives then get the big dick up the ass when they die when nothing happens.</p><p>Why don't you like it?&nbsp; Why do you care?&nbsp; If its having no direct affect on you, why give a fuck? For example, if someone wants to believe the moon is made of cheese,&nbsp;who cares?&nbsp; If that belief gets&nbsp;that person&nbsp;through the day, more power to them.</p><p>Oh if only it didn't have an effect on me.&nbsp; Our president makes faith based descisions.&nbsp; Religious people look down their noses at you and sometimes try to only deal with their own.&nbsp; Religions use their pull to get politicians to vote certian ways based on their beliefs.</p><p>Keep your stupid fairytales out of my government.&nbsp; No one cares what you think.</p><p>So when Clinton was Prez. you were cool with religious ppl?&nbsp; and I take it by your fairytale comment you assume I am religious, when the fact is you really don't know.</p><p>and at least half the country cares what religious ppl think.&nbsp; That's a lot of brainwashed folks.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Yes, that is an awful lot of people who were not given a choice at children and forcefed the same line of bullshit for years.&nbsp; The same guilt trip, the same paranoid &quot;Man is watching your every move&quot; story.</p><p>Does wonders on the mind.</p>

[ADF]

This thread has turned into a poorly-argumented debate over atheism.&nbsp; Try to stay on topic unless it's funny.&nbsp; Funny and on topic gets bonus points.<br />

[Death Metal Moe]

Can I win another Prize Pack?

[ADF]

<p>Only after enough bonus points have been earned.&nbsp; The formula I use to determine if Moe wins a prize pack is as follows...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Bonus Points Moe has collected + 1 = prize pack</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Also, an atheist president would rock!&nbsp;</p>

[Recyclerz]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>FINALLY!</p><p>PAGANS - 1</p><p>Baby Jesus - 0</p><p>Not so fast there, Big Guy</p><p><strong><font size="2">Paganism (from </font></strong> (from <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Latin"><u><font color="#0000ff" size="2">Latin</font></u></a><font size="2"> <em>paganus</em>, meaning &quot;a country dweller&quot; or &quot;civilian&quot;) is a blanket term which has come to connote a broad set of<strong> </strong></font><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Spiritualism"><em><u><font color="#0000ff"><font size="3">spiritual</font></font></u></em></a><strong><font size="3"> or </font></strong><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Religion"><strong><u><font color="#0000ff"><font size="3">religious</font></font></u></strong></a><strong><font size="3"> beliefs</font><font size="2"> and practices of natural or polytheistic religions, as opposed to the </font></strong>and practices of natural or polytheistic religions, as opposed to the <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/wiki/Abrahamic"><u><font color="#0000ff" size="2">Abrahamic</font></u></a><font size="2"> monotheistic religions</font><font size="3">. </font></p><font size="2"><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism</a></p><p><font size="1">Just because you're rooting for a different team doesn't mean you're above the game. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wink.gif" border="0" /></font></p><p><font size="1">I think Yerdaddy's original supposition about an open atheist never being elected to anything in this country (for a long time anyway) is probably correct.&nbsp; The vast majority of people in this country get something very important to their lives from religious belief; the fact that I don't see what all the fuss is about doesn't make me think they're wrong. If, as some religious say, that Faith is a gift from God I guess I&nbsp;just got stiffed.</font></p><p><font size="1">I do take issue with the assumption that religion is an all or nothing proposition, especially when one is talking about dogma and some historical anachronisms that may still be in the rule books. I don't see why a rational human being can't say that religious institutions are necessarily created by humans, (flawed humans as we all are) and as such must be flawed as well, the fault of which does not automatically accrue to God.&nbsp; If there is an infinite God and we are finite creatures, we'll never get it quite right but that doesn't <em>necessarily</em> make religion futile or a sign of mental illness.</font></p><p><font size="1">My bottom line:&nbsp; I think the only honest answer to the question &quot;Is there really a God?&quot; is &quot;I don't know.&quot;</font></p></font>

[Recyclerz]

Sorry, double post.

font></p></font>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Recyclerz on 7-17-06 @ 12:25 AM</span>

[narc]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br><p>Well all the major religions are against gays and against the abortions needed to harvest stem cells.</p><p>You can't pick and choose what you agree with in your religion. It's agree or be damned.</p><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>

That's not true at all. I don't happen to agree with my religion on lots of things. I don't recall hearing "if you don't agree with us on this, you're going to hell." Maybe back in the old days of the inquisition. Nothing is as important as the actions we take in our everyday life. And you have to take into account religion being fucked up by years of people interpreting it. That's why I think everyone should study up themselves and decide what they believe. If you choose not to believe in anything, then that's fine. <br><p>
But what I don't like is Atheists who try to "convert" people to atheism. And actually, I'm not picking on just atheists. I don't like people who try to convert me to any religion, or lack thereof. I believe what I believe, I take it seriously, and you're not going to convince me that I'm wrong. The thing I'd worry about with an Atheist President is that he'd be so self-righteous about being atheist that'd that would be his big deal in office. Keep religion, including your lack of belief, out of politics. Believe what you believe and don't try to froce it on anyone.

[ADF]

<p> </p><strong>narc</strong> wrote:<br /><strong /><strong><br /></strong><p>
<strong>But what I don't like is Atheists who try to &quot;convert&quot; people to atheism. And actually, I'm not picking on just atheists. I don't like people who try to convert me to any religion, or lack thereof. I believe what I believe, I take it seriously, and you're not going to convince me that I'm wrong. The thing I'd worry about with an Atheist President is that he'd be so self-righteous about being atheist that'd that would be his big deal in office. Keep religion, including your lack of belief, out of politics. Believe what you believe and don't try to froce it on anyone. </strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p><strong> </strong></p><p><strong>I would say the ratio of rabid athiest proselytizers to rabid religous nutjob dudes is about 1:10,000,000. The last part of your statement is so incredibly ironic that I'll just let you think about it for a while.<br /></strong></p><p><strong>Edit:&nbsp; I dunno why this went all bold on me.<br /></strong></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by ADF on 7-17-06 @ 1:01 AM</span>

[keithy_19]

While, I would be less likely to vote for an athiest candidate, if he/she had the same political view points that I do why wouldn't I vote them into office? It would seem quite silly to do otherwise.

[narc]

I've run into two types of preachy people in my lives - fundamentalist Christians, and Atheists, in roughly equal proportion actually. <br><p>
And are you saying it's ironic because I'm trying to make him believe the whole "believe what you believe and don't bug me about it" spiel? Because if so, this thread just got a whole lot more meta.

[A.J.]

<strong>DarkHippie</strong> wrote: <p>interestingly, Thomas Jefferson considered himself a <strong>unitarian</strong>.&nbsp; He added the religious stuff into the declaration as a compromise to the more devout members of the continental congress.&nbsp; Jefferson refused to specifically mention Christ or anything more specific then nature's god.</p><p>I am fucking gay for Thomas Jefferson.</p><p>He was actually a <strong>deist</strong> -- which, I believe, was the antecedent of unitarianism.</p><p>I'm a big fan of Jefferson too.&nbsp; No homo.</p>

[A.J.]

Oh, and I'd absolutely vote for an athiest President.&nbsp; It would be refreshing to hear the oath of office recited as it was written -- without the &quot;So help me God&quot; that George Washington added, and every other President has kept as tradition.

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>narc</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well all the major religions are against gays and against the abortions needed to harvest stem cells.</p><p>You can't pick and choose what you agree with in your religion. It's agree or be damned.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>That's not true at all. I don't happen to agree with my religion on lots of things. I don't recall hearing &quot;if you don't agree with us on this, you're going to hell.&quot; Maybe back in the old days of the inquisition. Nothing is as important as the actions we take in our everyday life. And you have to take into account religion being fucked up by years of people interpreting it. That's why I think everyone should study up themselves and decide what they believe. If you choose not to believe in anything, then that's fine <p>What the fuck are you talking about?&nbsp; How can you say you belong to a religion and then NOT believe what what it stands for?&nbsp; </p><p>1. What's the point of belonging to a religion if you don't believe what it preaches</p><p>and </p><p>2. Do you really think they want you picking and choosing what to believe in?</p><p>Religions demand obedience, that's why I don't belong to one.&nbsp; I have my own morals, I don't need someone to remind me of them every Sunday.</p><p>If you're a Catholic and you use condoms, that's a sin.&nbsp; If you're a Protestant and you have an abortion, that's a sin.&nbsp; If you are ANY religion and you're gay, that's a sin.&nbsp; There is no middle ground with religion.</p><p>I think most people think that they can show up to church every now and then, tell people they're whatever they are and that's OK.&nbsp; It's not.&nbsp; Religion isn't a fucking gym, it's a lifelong commitment.&nbsp; </p>

[CuzBum]

Can't you just ignore the religious stuff, I mean if it bothers you so much?

[Death Metal Moe]

This is a messageboard.&nbsp; You know, where we discuss topics.

[CuzBum]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />This is a messageboard.&nbsp; You know, where we discuss topics. <p>I meant ignore it in life, not on the board.</p><p>Now here is something for you to stare at.</p><p><img src="http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/motouchie/twinkie.jpg" border="0" /><img src="http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/motouchie/twinkie.jpg" border="0" /><img src="http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/motouchie/twinkie.jpg" border="0" /></p>

[Jujubees2]

<p>Moe is right.&nbsp; As a Catholic I was taught that you can't pick and choose which ideas&nbsp;of the&nbsp;church to follow.&nbsp; You must follow them all.</p><p>That said, I believe in a women's right to choose, in birth control and in gay marriage.&nbsp; Don't make me a bad person, just a bad Catholic.</p><p>What gets me going is the amount of money in the Catholic church.&nbsp;Geez, these guys spent almost&nbsp;$9 million on a funeral!&nbsp; <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/07/13/vaticans_finances_best_in_8_years/">http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/07/13/vaticans_finances_best_in_8_years/</a></p><p>I would definitely consider voting for an atheist, but not just because he/she is an atheist.&nbsp; If share a&nbsp;similar political view with a candidate, I would vote&nbsp;for him/her if they&nbsp;are black or&nbsp;white or green.&nbsp;</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>ADF</strong> wrote:<br />This thread has turned into a poorly-argumented debate over atheism. Try to stay on topic unless it's funny. Funny and on topic gets bonus points.<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The only reason that the post got off topic is that the 4th poster in the thread accused us believers of having a mental disorder. Once I defended myself, Moe and I went back and forth for a while about my so-called disorder. Thats all it was, honest! And by the way... I think I had a couple of funny lines in there a few times. I should at least get 1 point, even if i'm an insane believer.&nbsp;</p>

[narc]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br><strong>narc</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well all the major religions are against gays and against the abortions needed to harvest stem cells.</p><p>You can't pick and choose what you agree with in your religion. It's agree or be damned.</p><p> </p>That's not true at all. I don't happen to agree with my religion on lots of things. I don't recall hearing "if you don't agree with us on this, you're going to hell." Maybe back in the old days of the inquisition. Nothing is as important as the actions we take in our everyday life. And you have to take into account religion being fucked up by years of people interpreting it. That's why I think everyone should study up themselves and decide what they believe. If you choose not to believe in anything, then that's fine <p>What the fuck are you talking about? How can you say you belong to a religion and then NOT believe what what it stands for? </p><p>1. What's the point of belonging to a religion if you don't believe what it preaches</p><p>and </p><p>2. Do you really think they want you picking and choosing what to believe in?</p><p>Religions demand obedience, that's why I don't belong to one. I have my own morals, I don't need someone to remind me of them every Sunday.</p><p>If you're a Catholic and you use condoms, that's a sin. If you're a Protestant and you have an abortion, that's a sin. If you are ANY religion and you're gay, that's a sin. There is no middle ground with religion.</p><p>I think most people think that they can show up to church every now and then, tell people they're whatever they are and that's OK. It's not. Religion isn't a fucking gym, it's a lifelong commitment. </p><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>

Well, because I agree on other things. A lot of other things. I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to religion because of the whole black and white issue. <br><p>
And to be perfectly honest, I think Churches are sort of hip to the fact that they can't demand complete obeisance anymore - this isn't the middle ages. Look at France. Everyone there who isn't Muslim is Catholic. They all believe in abortion and birth control. The Church knows this. So what do they do? Excommunicate them and tell them they're all going to hell? Or just talk about things they can agree with - be nice to people, don't kill children, etc. If you were the Church which would you choose? You always have to know your audience. <br><p>
And by the way, that accounts for a lot of the way the message changes. I've gone to Catholic churches in Maryland and Virginia, for instance. The Diocese of Arlington, which controls Northern Virginia, is WAY more conservative because the population is WAY more conservative.

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>narc</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>Well, because I agree on other things. A lot of other things. I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to religion because of the whole black and white issue. <br /><p>And to be perfectly honest, I think Churches are sort of hip to the fact that they can't demand complete obeisance anymore - this isn't the middle ages. Look at France. Everyone there who isn't Muslim is Catholic. They all believe in abortion and birth control. The Church knows this. So what do they do? Excommunicate them and tell them they're all going to hell? Or just talk about things they can agree with - be nice to people, don't kill children, etc. If you were the Church which would you choose? You always have to know your audience. <br /></p><p>And by the way, that accounts for a lot of the way the message changes. I've gone to Catholic churches in Maryland and Virginia, for instance. The Diocese of Arlington, which controls Northern Virginia, is WAY more conservative because the population is WAY more conservative. </p><p>How important were the rules of the church if they keep changing them to keep people from leaving?&nbsp; Did you God lay down a way to live your life to earn Salvation or not?&nbsp; He didn't say &quot;Gays are morally wrong, until enough of you get pissed and our revenues go down.&quot;&nbsp; Or was it the way man interpreted it?&nbsp; Ya know, those 10 commandments are fairly clear on a lot of things, like having sex out of marriage.&nbsp; </p><p>I'm sorry, but I've run into far too many people like that.&nbsp; They tell everyone they're Christian but they never go to church, they never read their holy book and they don't follow the tenants of their faith.</p><p>If I believe in abortion rights and gay marriage, I don't call myself a Republican.</p>

[narc]

That's why I'm saying read the bible or whatever for yourself, decide what you think it means, and then decide how to live your life.<br><p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong><br /></strong><p>If I believe in abortion rights and gay marriage, I don't call myself a Republican.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I know a great deal of Republicans that believe in Women's rights and Gay marriage.</p><p>Why can't people enjoy aspects of their beliefs while questioning others? I think that would be the more tolerant thing to do.</p><p>Moe... This has been asked several times without an answer: Why does other people's beliefs bother you so much? Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone (and if they don't then deal with them as you must). Let others believe what they want. It doesn't affect your life one bit what I believe. And BTW, I'm pretty sure Fez and Earl have some belief in a higher power. Are they insane also?&nbsp;</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<p>where does an atheist draw his morals from?&nbsp;&nbsp;what forms&nbsp;his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p>

[Gvac]

<p>&quot;I once wanted to become an atheist but I gave up . . . they have no holidays.&quot;</p><p><img border="0" src="http://www.davidstuff.com/humor/youngman.jpg" />&nbsp;</p>

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from?&nbsp;&nbsp;what forms&nbsp;his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p>sense of right and wrong.</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from? what forms his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I don't know, where does yours come from? If you didn't have your beliefs would you be a murderous scoundrel, killing anyone who looks you in the eye and stealing from old ladies?<br /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote <p>Moe... This has been asked several times without an answer: Why does other people's beliefs bother you so much? Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone (and if they don't then deal with them as you must). Let others believe what they want. It doesn't affect your life one bit what I believe. And BTW, I'm pretty sure Fez and Earl have some belief in a higher power. Are they insane also?&nbsp;</p><p>Your religion is being used to govern right now, how the fuck does it NOT effect me?&nbsp; Your president uses his fucking faith to make descisions.</p><p>Your faith based president shoots down even considering stem cell research because he feels some religious ju ju will come and get him eventually.&nbsp; Are you following yet?</p><p>It's because religion can't tolerate other religions, and it can't tolerate athiests in the end.&nbsp; Your stupid religion gives you the false feeling that youre better than non-believers and believers that don't believe exactly what you think.&nbsp; You think other single God religions like Islam are wrong, you can't even decide how to fucking worship Jesus the same way.&nbsp; Protestants laugh at Catholics for thinking the wine and wafers actually turn into the body and blood of Christ.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from? what forms his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">I don't know, where does yours come from? If you didn't have your beliefs would you be a murderous scoundrel, killing anyone who looks you in the eye and stealing from old ladies?</font></font><br /></p><p>Thank you.&nbsp; This infuriates me.&nbsp; I know good and bad athiests and so called religious people.&nbsp; Belief in a higher being does not mean you will have morals at all.&nbsp; Plenty of Catholic girls whoring around.</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote <p>Moe... This has been asked several times without an answer: Why does other people's beliefs bother you so much? Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone (and if they don't then deal with them as you must). Let others believe what they want. It doesn't affect your life one bit what I believe. And BTW, I'm pretty sure Fez and Earl have some belief in a higher power. Are they insane also? </p><p>Your religion is being used to govern right now, how the fuck does it NOT effect me? Your president uses his fucking faith to make descisions.</p><p>Your faith based president shoots down even considering stem cell research because he feels some religious ju ju will come and get him eventually. Are you following yet?</p><p>It's because religion can't tolerate other religions, and it can't tolerate athiests in the end. Your stupid religion gives you the false feeling that youre better than non-believers and believers that don't believe exactly what you think. You think other single God religions like Islam are wrong, you can't even decide how to fucking worship Jesus the same way. Protestants laugh at Catholics for thinking the wine and wafers actually turn into the body and blood of Christ.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And where did the Lutherans get their beliefs from?</p><p><img width="150" height="243" border="0" src="http://www.askmen.com/men/entertainment_100/pictures_100/luther_vandross/luther_vandross_150.JPG" />&nbsp;</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

From the soul, baby.

[CuzBum]

<p>Your religion is being used to govern right now, how the fuck does it NOT effect me?&nbsp; Your president uses his fucking faith to make descisions.</p><p>Your faith based president shoots down even considering stem cell research because he feels some religious ju ju will come and get him eventually.&nbsp; Are you following yet?</p><p>It's because religion can't tolerate other religions, and it can't tolerate athiests in the end.&nbsp; Your stupid religion gives you the false feeling that youre better than non-believers and believers that don't believe exactly what you think.&nbsp; You think other single God religions like Islam are wrong, you can't even decide how to fucking worship Jesus the same way.&nbsp; Protestants laugh at Catholics for thinking the wine and wafers actually turn into the body and blood of Christ.</p><p></p><p>All i was taught in CCD is to love one another and be tolerant of each other and to help people.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>All i was taught in CCD is to love one another and be tolerant of each other and to help people.</p><p>Yea, stick around for your adult years.&nbsp; You get the guilt trip real fast.</p>

[CuzBum]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>All i was taught in CCD is to love one another and be tolerant of each other and to help people.</p><p>Yea, stick around for your adult years.&nbsp; You get the guilt trip real fast.</p><p>Explain?</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /> <p>Your religion is being used to govern right now, how the fuck does it NOT effect me? Your president uses his fucking faith to make descisions.</p><p>Your faith based president shoots down even considering stem cell research because he feels some religious ju ju will come and get him eventually. Are you following yet?</p><p>It's because religion can't tolerate other religions, and it can't tolerate athiests in the end. Your stupid religion gives you the false feeling that youre better than non-believers and believers that don't believe exactly what you think. You think other single God religions like Islam are wrong, you can't even decide how to fucking worship Jesus the same way. Protestants laugh at Catholics for thinking the wine and wafers actually turn into the body and blood of Christ.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>All i was taught in CCD is to love one another and be tolerant of each other and to help people.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Really? I was taught to not use my teeth and never forget the balls.&nbsp;</p>

[CuzBum]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Your religion is being used to govern right now, how the fuck does it NOT effect me? Your president uses his fucking faith to make descisions.</p><p>Your faith based president shoots down even considering stem cell research because he feels some religious ju ju will come and get him eventually. Are you following yet?</p><p>It's because religion can't tolerate other religions, and it can't tolerate athiests in the end. Your stupid religion gives you the false feeling that youre better than non-believers and believers that don't believe exactly what you think. You think other single God religions like Islam are wrong, you can't even decide how to fucking worship Jesus the same way. Protestants laugh at Catholics for thinking the wine and wafers actually turn into the body and blood of Christ.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>All i was taught in CCD is to love one another and be tolerant of each other and to help people.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">Really? I was taught to not use my teeth and never forget the balls.</font></font>&nbsp;</p><p>Um . . .</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from? what forms his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">I don't know, where does yours come from? If you didn't have your beliefs would you be a murderous scoundrel, killing anyone who looks you in the eye and stealing from old ladies?</font></font><br /></p><p>i'm not sure but i'll take a guess, my parents, teachers, grandparents, friends, television...&nbsp; pretty much everyone you interacted with as you grew from a baby to an adult</p><p>why would you and moe get defensive and infuriated about such a question?</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

I wasn't mad at the question, just the standard implication.

[CuzBum]

<img src="http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/teachers_resources/images/jiminy_140x143.gif" border="0" />

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />I wasn't mad at the question, just the standard implication. <p>implication?</p><p>maybe i'm looking at it wrong but it seems to be a logical question with a &quot;not precise&quot; but logical answers...</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from? what forms his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p> </p><p> </p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">I don't know, where does yours come from? If you didn't have your beliefs would you be a murderous scoundrel, killing anyone who looks you in the eye and stealing from old ladies?</font></font><br /></p><p>i'm not sure but i'll take a guess, my parents, teachers, grandparents, friends, television... pretty much everyone you interacted with as you grew from a baby to an adult</p><p>why would you and moe get defensive and infuriated about such a question?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That you seemed that you sincerely had no idea where an atheist could get morals and a conscience from, and the insinuations therein. If I asked a question like this:</p><p>With all the Christian taboos against sex, how could a Christian possibly have a sex drive?</p><p>It's a stupid question, and insulting.<br /></p>

[CuzBum]

<p>With all the Christian taboos against sex, how could a Christian possibly have a sex drive?</p><p>Hormones, body chemicals, visual arousal.</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from? what forms his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">I don't know, where does yours come from? If you didn't have your beliefs would you be a murderous scoundrel, killing anyone who looks you in the eye and stealing from old ladies?</font></font><br /></p><p>i'm not sure but i'll take a guess, my parents, teachers, grandparents, friends, television... pretty much everyone you interacted with as you grew from a baby to an adult</p><p>why would you and moe get defensive and infuriated about such a question?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">That you seemed that you sincerely had no idea where an atheist could get morals and a conscience from, and the insinuations therein. If I asked a question like this:</font></font><font color="#000080"><font size="2"> <p>With all the Christian taboos against sex, how could a Christian possibly have a sex drive?</p><p>It's a stupid question, and insulting.<br /></p></font></font><p>to be honest, it's a question that popped in my mind generated by this thread</p><p>i believe it's an honest logical question &quot;if you believe in a conscience and morals&quot;...</p><p>no insult intended and i hope there was none thrown at me personally...</p>

[Gvac]

<p>Jesus Christ, lighten up people.&nbsp; </p><p>There's nothing wrong with debate, but learn how to do it civilly and intelligently, not screaming and stamping your feet. &nbsp;</p><p>At least pretend we're all adults here.<br /></p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from? what forms his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p> </p><p> </p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">I don't know, where does yours come from? If you didn't have your beliefs would you be a murderous scoundrel, killing anyone who looks you in the eye and stealing from old ladies?</font></font><br /></p><p>i'm not sure but i'll take a guess, my parents, teachers, grandparents, friends, television... pretty much everyone you interacted with as you grew from a baby to an adult</p><p>why would you and moe get defensive and infuriated about such a question?</p><p> </p><p> </p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">That you seemed that you sincerely had no idea where an atheist could get morals and a conscience from, and the insinuations therein. If I asked a question like this:</font></font><font color="#000080"><font size="2"> <p>With all the Christian taboos against sex, how could a Christian possibly have a sex drive?</p><p>It's a stupid question, and insulting.<br /></p></font></font><p>to be honest, it's a question that popped in my mind generated by this thread</p><p>i believe it's an honest logical question &quot;if you believe in a conscience and morals&quot;...</p><p>no insult intended and i hope there was none thrown at me personally...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>No insult intended as I didn't ask the question seriously. However, I do have a serious question: When you answered where you got morals and consicence from you didn't mention religion. So why would it be any different for atheists?</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Gvac</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Jesus Christ, lighten up people. </p><p>There's nothing wrong with debate, but learn how to do it civilly and intelligently, not screaming and stamping your feet. </p><p>At least pretend we're all adults here.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If people on a regular basis questioned how you could be moral, you'd have a short fuse with this stuff. People actually act surprised that you can act like a civilized human being.<br /></p>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>where does an atheist draw his morals from? what forms his conscience?</p><p>just curious</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">I don't know, where does yours come from? If you didn't have your beliefs would you be a murderous scoundrel, killing anyone who looks you in the eye and stealing from old ladies?</font></font><br /></p><p>i'm not sure but i'll take a guess, my parents, teachers, grandparents, friends, television... pretty much everyone you interacted with as you grew from a baby to an adult</p><p>why would you and moe get defensive and infuriated about such a question?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">That you seemed that you sincerely had no idea where an atheist could get morals and a conscience from, and the insinuations therein. If I asked a question like this:</font></font><font color="#000080"><font size="2"> <p>With all the Christian taboos against sex, how could a Christian possibly have a sex drive?</p><p>It's a stupid question, and insulting.<br /></p></font></font><p>to be honest, it's a question that popped in my mind generated by this thread</p><p>i believe it's an honest logical question &quot;if you believe in a conscience and morals&quot;...</p><p>no insult intended and i hope there was none thrown at me personally...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">No insult intended as I didn't ask the question seriously. <strong>However, I do have a serious question: When you answered where you got morals and consicence from you didn't mention religion. So why would it be any different for atheists?</strong></font></font></p><p>i didn't mention religion i guess because that's not the only&nbsp;thing that&nbsp;people base their decisions on...&nbsp; alot of people don't commit murder because they are afraid of jail, not that they would hurt god or jesus or are worried they will be going to hell</p><p>it's just a discussion</p>

[CuzBum]

To answer the thread title, it doesn't matter to me, I will vote on your stance on the issues and your ability to lead. I believe two consenting adults should be able to marry regardless of sex. I believe stem cell research is the next rung on the scientific ladder and we&nbsp;should absoutely throw as many grants and as much money as we possibly can at it. The prospect of being able to do such things as cure paralysis&nbsp;is just too intriguing to me not too pursue because of religious reasons. I think faith influeneced decision making in our government will end soon, i'll throw out a number, say two years or so.

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote: <p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">If people on a regular basis questioned how you could be moral, you'd have a short fuse with this stuff. People actually act surprised that you can act like a civilized human being.</font></font><br /></p><p>Exactly.&nbsp; It's like people expect you to be flinging your own feces at trees without Jesus in your life.&nbsp; I get along better without him.&nbsp; Far better.</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><p>All i was taught in CCD is to love one another and be tolerant of each other and to help people.</p><p>Yea, stick around for your adult years. You get the guilt trip real fast.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Moe, I guarantee that you are a much younger man than me and have seen far less strife, Yet you are far more bitter than I am.</p><p><font size="3"><strong>What about the statement I made about Fez and Earl having some belief. Do you consider them insane as you consider all of us? You failed to address that. &nbsp;</strong></font></p>

[CuzBum]

<p>Yea, stick around for your adult years.</p><p>Where would i go?</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

You don't think I'll lump Fez and Earl in with the other religious people just because they're on the show?&nbsp; I think they're extremely mistaken, just like the rest of you.&nbsp; You all like to be told a pleasant story that will help you to sleep.

[CuzBum]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />You don't think I'll lump Fez and Earl in with the other religious people just because they're on the show?&nbsp; I think they're extremely mistaken, just like the rest of you.&nbsp; You all like to be told a pleasant story that will help you to sleep. <p>Come on, what did the old J guy ever do to you?</p><p><img src="http://www.drnz.tv/images/jesus.jpg" border="0" /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>Yea, stick around for your adult years. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>Where would i go?</p><p>Just in case you're not being a smart ass, what I meant was religions keep it light and airy for the kids to keep you there and then tell you the whole story as an adult.</p>

[CuzBum]

<p>Just in case you're not being a smart ass, what I meant was religions keep it light and airy for the kids to keep you there and then tell you the whole story as an adult.</p><p>Who will tell me?</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;the old J guy </p><p>Chong?</p><p><img height="370" src="http://starbulletin.com/2002/08/02/features/artaa.jpg" width="277" border="0" /></p>

[CuzBum]

<strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;the old J guy </p><p>Chong?</p><p><img height="370" src="http://starbulletin.com/2002/08/02/features/artaa.jpg" width="277" border="0" /></p><p>You can't deny that Tommy Chong is clearly a descendant of The Christ.</p>

[Death Metal Moe]

Of course not.&nbsp; why would I even try?

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />You don't think I'll lump Fez and Earl in with the other religious people just because they're on the show? I think they're extremely mistaken, just like the rest of you. You all like to be told a pleasant story that will help you to sleep.<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That's what I wanted to hear. This thread changed course because you agreed that all those who believe in a higher power share a mental illness. You have been a long time listener of the show, so I wanted to see if you feel that Fez and Earl also suffer from the same mental disease. Ron may share the illness as well. He talks alot about God and heaven, although that may be just to appease Fez.<br /></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>Wow, glad you fucking derailed this thread so 3 pages later you could get me to admit something I was never scared to admit.</p><p>Religion poisions the mind.</p>

[CuzBum]

The idea of dying one day and slipping into nothingness scares the piss out of me. The horrifying thought of it is enough to keep&nbsp;me awake at night. Do any of you who don't conform to a religion believe in any kind of after-life?

[docgoblin]

i didn't derail it. The comment that anyone who believes in God is inisane, and your prompt agreement, is what derailed it.<br />

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by docgoblin on 7-17-06 @ 11:01 PM</span>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br />The idea of dying one day and slipping into nothingness scares the piss out of me. The horrifying thought of it is enough to keep me awake at night. Do any of you who don't conform to a religion believe in any kind of after-life?<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>No, I don't believe (I consider myself agnostic) and yes, it does bother me. But I can't make myself believe in something I just don't believe in.&nbsp; Yeah, it would be a relief but no, I would just be attempting to fool myself.</p>

[CuzBum]

<p><font color="#000080" size="2">No, I don't believe (I consider myself agnostic) and yes, it does bother me. But I can't make myself believe in something I just don't believe in.&nbsp; Yeah, it would be a relief but no, I would just be attempting to fool myself.</font></p><p>What about paranormal phenomena, spirits, voices from the &quot;other side&quot; in the form of evp, does anything like that at least intrigue you?</p>

[booster11373]

<strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />You don't think I'll lump Fez and Earl in with the other religious people just because they're on the show? I think they're extremely mistaken, just like the rest of you. You all like to be told a pleasant story that will help you to sleep. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>That's what I wanted to hear. This thread changed course because you agreed that all those who believe in a higher power share a mental illness. You have been a long time listener of the show, so I wanted to see if you feel that Fez and Earl also suffer from the same mental disease. Ron may share the illness as well. He talks alot about God and heaven, although that may be just to appease Fez.<br /></p><p>I'm sort of responsible for the derailment.</p><p>I tried to address this in a second post which I dont think you read Docgoblin</p><p>You want to believe in a higher power so be its not a problem for me. What I do&nbsp;have a problem with are people like the Roeper bunch from Kansas and the Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell types. Tell me if I'm wrong but I think Ive heard them say that they have <u>TALKED to God not just prayed but TALKED</u>. Pat Roberstson said that God told him Bush would win the election.</p><p>I think there is a difference between praying to god and talking to him.</p><p>That to me has to be a sign of mental illness</p><p>I wish somebody would make the comparison between paranoid delusions and Evangelist rhetoric there seem to be some parallels</p><p>You want to go to church a synagogue or mosque fine by me just dont hassle me if I dont</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><font size="2" color="#000080">No, I don't believe (I consider myself agnostic) and yes, it does bother me. But I can't make myself believe in something I just don't believe in. Yeah, it would be a relief but no, I would just be attempting to fool myself.</font><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What about paranormal phenomena, spirits, voices from the &quot;other side&quot; in the form of evp, does anything like that at least intrigue you?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Sometimes. not enough to point me into any specific religion. Usually that stuff can be explained. But just because something can't be explained doesn't bother me that much, there's plenty of stuff we can't explain and I'm comfortable with that.<br /></p>

[booster11373]

Ghosts dont exist because the World just isnt that cool

[CuzBum]

<strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br />Ghosts dont exist because the World just isnt that cool <p>Look at Hbox's avatar and sigpic and you tell me the fuckin world ain't cool!</p>

[booster11373]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br />Ghosts dont exist because the World just isnt that cool <p>Look at Hbox's avatar and sigpic and you tell me the fuckin world ain't cool!</p><p>I didnt say the world wasnt sexy!!!!!</p><p>Hboxs avatar is and has been a whole nother thread!!!!</p>

[docgoblin]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>booster11373</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>docgoblin</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>Death Metal Moe</strong> wrote:<br />You don't think I'll lump Fez and Earl in with the other religious people just because they're on the show? I think they're extremely mistaken, just like the rest of you. You all like to be told a pleasant story that will help you to sleep. <p> </p><p> </p><p>That's what I wanted to hear. This thread changed course because you agreed that all those who believe in a higher power share a mental illness. You have been a long time listener of the show, so I wanted to see if you feel that Fez and Earl also suffer from the same mental disease. Ron may share the illness as well. He talks alot about God and heaven, although that may be just to appease Fez.<br /></p><p>I'm sort of responsible for the derailment.</p><p>I tried to address this in a second post which I dont think you read Docgoblin</p><p>You want to believe in a higher power so be its not a problem for me. What I do have a problem with are people like the Roeper bunch from Kansas and the Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell types. Tell me if I'm wrong but I think Ive heard them say that they have <u>TALKED to God not just prayed but TALKED</u>. Pat Roberstson said that God told him Bush would win the election.</p><p>I think there is a difference between praying to god and talking to him.</p><p>That to me has to be a sign of mental illness</p><p>I wish somebody would make the comparison between paranoid delusions and Evangelist rhetoric there seem to be some parallels</p><p>You want to go to church a synagogue or mosque fine by me just dont hassle me if I dont</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yes I agree completely. I feel those extremists are looney. Just as extremists on the other side are looney as well. I mentioned the Roeper crackpot in a previous post. As I have said over and over: Let me believe what I want, and I will let you believe what you want (I think most of us feel this way), and as long as we don't hurt each other then all is right with the world. let's just try to get the people in power that will get us back on the right path. I don't care if they're Christian, Jew, Muslim, Athiest, Gay, Straight, White, Black, Yellow, Brown, Man or Woman. Lets just get back on track! &nbsp; &nbsp;</p>

[A.J.]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br />The idea of dying one day and slipping into nothingness scares the piss out of me. The horrifying thought of it is enough to keep&nbsp;me awake at night. Do any of you who don't conform to a religion believe in any kind of after-life? <p>Who says that's what will happen?&nbsp; Maybe our souls/spirit/<em>katra</em>/whatever will exist as thought or energy...or in some different plain or dimension.</p><p>Science fiction provides me with more possibilites&nbsp;of an afterlife than religion does.</p>

[ADF]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br />The idea of dying one day and slipping into nothingness scares the piss out of me. The horrifying thought of it is enough to keep me awake at night. Do any of you who don't conform to a religion believe in any kind of after-life?<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm fine with it.&nbsp; All the more reason to enjoy life as best you can.&nbsp;</p>

[Furtherman]

<p>OK, let's say you &quot;slip into nothingness&quot;.&nbsp; Well guess what, you won't KNOW you are slipping into nothingness.</p><p>So it doesn't matter.</p><p>Are you going to worry about something you won't even be aware of when it happens?&nbsp; That will just give you more problems that you're worth.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I know, deep in my heart, that the world would be a better place if religion never existed.&nbsp; We'd all be a little nicer, a little happier and a little more compasionate for our fellow humans.</p><p>So yes, I'd vote for an atheist president, as long as they were a good person who stood for some good plans to help us all out.&nbsp; </p><p>I'd feel much better about that person's decisions without the religious companies lobbying behind him.</p>