George Bush fucking sucks...

[FMJeff]

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/17/congress.stemcells.ap/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/17/congress.stemcells.ap/index.html</a></p><p>You know, my grandmother has altzheimers.</p><p>My grandfather had altzheimers. </p><p>My grandmother died of cancer.</p><p>Researchers say stem cell research is the best possible avenue to finding a cure for these diseases.</p><p>Thanks George. Way to go. Way to stand in the way of science to energize that conservative base. </p><p>Piece of shit president. </p><p>Piece of shit religiously conservative republicans. </p><p>Defend that one republicans. Defend a veto on a bill 70% of the american public supports, that a former republican first lady supports, that will PASS the house and senate, that will potentially cure dozens of high profile diseases...</p><p>defend him, please. defend THIS. enough. ENOUGH. <font size="4">ENOUGH.</font></p><p><font size="1">it's so cliche at this point to criticise this idiot, so overdone, so pervasive, im, i just dont get it, i just dont, we are a fucking stupid country. fucking stupid. </font></p>

[SinA]

<p><img height="208" src="http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/kerry_bush_too_friendly.jpg" width="210" border="0" /></p><p>kerry loves him</p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote: <strong><font size="1">George Bush fucking sucks...</font></strong> <br /><p>&quot;Sucks&quot; is an understatement.</p><p>When he blocks this bill, not only will time be lost in fighting multiple diseases, but lives will be lost&nbsp;too.</p><p>It's criminal.&nbsp; People will die because of his ignorance.</p>

[angrymissy]

Wait until someone in his family is suffering from one of these diseases...

[Furtherman]

<strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br />Wait until someone in his family is suffering from one of these diseases... <p>I only hope it will be him.</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<p><strong><font size="1">George Bush fucking sucks...</font></strong> </p><p>he needs the money</p><p>oh wait he's rich so he just likes the cock...</p>

[booster11373]

This guy has rubber stamped every piece of legislation for 6 years and this he decides is the bill to veto.

[A.J.]

Much as I love the catchiness of this thread title, you could have recycled <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/45262/page/Bush_stands_firm_on_stem_cell_veto_threat.htm" target="_self">this thread</a> for example.

[A.J.]

<p>And not to belittle Jeff's sentiments with my previous posts but I DO agree with him.&nbsp; Bush's position on this issue&nbsp;is indefensible.&nbsp; I'm sick to death of the hypocrisy of right to lifers who complain that all life is precious and needs to be saved, and yet demand cuts in their taxes and cuts in the programs that are necesary&nbsp;to support these people.&nbsp; So who is going to pay for these people.&nbsp; Jesus?</p>

[SatCam]

My taxes shouldn't be going towards this. If I want to donate money to the cause, I can. I kind've hope he vetos this on principle

But his position on the issue is inexcusible and frankly, I'd rather have my taxes go towards this cause then some other things they're spending our money on...

[FMJeff]

<strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />My taxes shouldn't be going towards this. If I want to donate money to the cause, I can. I kind've hope he vetos this on principle But his position on the issue is inexcusible and frankly, I'd rather have my taxes go towards this cause then some other things they're spending our money on... <p>What? Your taxes shouldn't be going to help the fight against disease? What the hell else should they be going to? </p><p>My taxes pay for bridges and roads, sanitation, environmental cleanup, crime prevention and prosecution, and g-d knows what else. Are you saying the betterment of human life through disease research doesn't fall under the purview of federal tax spending?</p><p>Do you have any idea how much money the federal government spends on medical research each year? AIDS? Heart disease? Cancer? Genetic issues? MS? </p><p>The only reason this particular method of research garnered any public interest is because conservative republicans decided this would be the perfect wedge issue to divide the country. By painting stem cell research with the same christian blasphemy they do with abortion, they energize thier base by portraying themselves as devout defends of the word of g-d. It's fucking ridiculous. </p><p>Your taxes SHOULD be spent on medical research. It may save YOUR life one day, or the lives of people you love, not to mention your fellow citizens.</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>All I can say is that once GW is out (two years) and either a progressive Republican (Giuliani) or an acceptable Democrat is put in, the pandora's box of stem cell research will be opened.&nbsp; Once it's opened, it won't be closed.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>See: Roe v. Wade.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The weird thing is, Frist is a pal o' Bush, yet he's saying that stem cell research needs to be expanded, which just shows how out of his mind our President is.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>Here's another thought...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Isn't transplanting a baboon's heart way, WAY more &quot;unnatural&quot; and &quot;immoral&quot; than stem cell research?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[A.J.]

<p>Though PETA would argue differently, a baboon is not a person.</p><p>I love the irony that creationists reject Darwin's concept of evolution yet the heart of a primate&nbsp;is medically&nbsp;compatible with humans.&nbsp; </p>

[SatCam]

<strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />My taxes shouldn't be going towards this. If I want to donate money to the cause, I can. I kind've hope he vetos this on principle But his position on the issue is inexcusible and frankly, I'd rather have my taxes go towards this cause then some other things they're spending our money on... <p>What? Your taxes shouldn't be going to help the fight against disease? What the hell else should they be going to? </p><p>My taxes pay for bridges and roads, sanitation, environmental cleanup, crime prevention and prosecution, and g-d knows what else. Are you saying the betterment of human life through disease research doesn't fall under the purview of federal tax spending?</p><p>Do you have any idea how much money the federal government spends on medical research each year? AIDS? Heart disease? Cancer? Genetic issues? MS? </p><p>The only reason this particular method of research garnered any public interest is because conservative republicans decided this would be the perfect wedge issue to divide the country. By painting stem cell research with the same christian blasphemy they do with abortion, they energize thier base by portraying themselves as devout defends of the word of g-d. It's fucking ridiculous. </p><p>Your taxes SHOULD be spent on medical research. It may save YOUR life one day, or the lives of people you love, not to mention your fellow citizens.</p><p></p>

What if someone disagrees with stem cell research? There's a good number of them... our president for example. Are we going to force them to support it (with their money)? Just because they have their heads up their asses, it does not discredit their opinions or their ability to choose what to do with their money.

And for the record, I understand that a lot of tax dollars go towards medical research already, but we don't need any more of our tax dollars going towards anything. At this point in the game, we should be re-allocating money, not throwing <i>more</i> money into (already failing) things.

Also, I really hope that medical research saves my life one day... cuz that was my damn money going into it!!!

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />My taxes shouldn't be going towards this. If I want to donate money to the cause, I can. I kind've hope he vetos this on principle But his position on the issue is inexcusible and frankly, I'd rather have my taxes go towards this cause then some other things they're spending our money on... <p>What? Your taxes shouldn't be going to help the fight against disease? What the hell else should they be going to? </p><p>My taxes pay for bridges and roads, sanitation, environmental cleanup, crime prevention and prosecution, and g-d knows what else. Are you saying the betterment of human life through disease research doesn't fall under the purview of federal tax spending?</p><p>Do you have any idea how much money the federal government spends on medical research each year? AIDS? Heart disease? Cancer? Genetic issues? MS? </p><p>The only reason this particular method of research garnered any public interest is because conservative republicans decided this would be the perfect wedge issue to divide the country. By painting stem cell research with the same christian blasphemy they do with abortion, they energize thier base by portraying themselves as devout defends of the word of g-d. It's fucking ridiculous. </p><p>Your taxes SHOULD be spent on medical research. It may save YOUR life one day, or the lives of people you love, not to mention your fellow citizens.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

What if someone disagrees with stem cell research? There's a good number of them... our president for example. Are we going to force them to support it (with their money)? Just because they have their heads up their asses, it does not discredit their opinions or their ability to choose what to do with their money.

And for the record, I understand that a lot of tax dollars go towards medical research already, but we don't need any more of our tax dollars going towards anything. At this point in the game, we should be re-allocating money, not throwing <em>more</em> money into (already failing) things.

Also, I really hope that medical research saves my life one day... cuz that was my damn money going into it!!!<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>There isn't going to be 100% agreement over what the government spends its money on. You will find someone who will disagree wth every cent. Stem cell research is more popular than a lot of what money is begin spent on right now, the Iraq War among them.<br /></p>

[FMJeff]

<p>And it goes by majority, Satcam. If 70% of the population wants it, then the other 30% can go fuck, because I guarantee you they don't want it for religious reasons or they're not informed of the benefits and go with the flock. </p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>A.J.</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Though PETA would argue differently, a baboon is not a person.</p><p>I love the irony that creationists reject Darwin's concept of evolution yet the heart of a primate is medically compatible with humans. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Exactly.&nbsp; A baboon ISN'T a person, so the creationists and Religious Right would immediately freak out and say that this kind of science is &quot;unnatural&quot;.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Furtherman]

<p>Has there ever been a successful heart transplant via animal to human?&nbsp; I recall it has been tried, but none has ever&nbsp;actually worked, usually&nbsp;only lasting a few hours before the human body attacked&nbsp;it.</p><p>I know they have used blood transfusions with sheep and baboons on human to much success, although this was decades ago when human blood storage wasn't prevalent.&nbsp; </p><p>As it for being &quot;moral&quot;?&nbsp; If it saves a life, morality has nothing to do with it, it's all about mortality at that point.&nbsp; If I was told I would die but&nbsp;there was a D.O.A. baboon in the morgue and it's heart would work - sign me up.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>BUT... to get a little back to the subject at hand... I thought of this...</p><p>People have successfully sued tobacco companies for cancer deaths.</p><p>Years from now... if stem&nbsp;cell research is in full gear and a breakthrough cure is found, only to realize that it would have been found years ago if Bush didn't veto this bill,&nbsp;could he be found responsible&nbsp;for any deaths&nbsp;in that year.</p><p>It probably would never make it to court, but I'd say he would be.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

[A.J.]

<p>I&nbsp;meant to say&nbsp;that, for those people, it would be OK&nbsp;for&nbsp;animals, not people,&nbsp;to be harvested.&nbsp;</p><p>Either way good point.</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Has there ever been a successful heart transplant via animal to human? I recall it has been tried, but none has ever actually worked, usually only lasting a few hours before the human body attacked it.</p><br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It wasn't successful, but they did experiment with it.&nbsp; If the Religious Right etc. caught wind of this back in the day, they would have shut it down as fast as they could.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Jujubees2]

<strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />My taxes shouldn't be going towards this. If I want to donate money to the cause, I can. I kind've hope he vetos this on principle But his position on the issue is inexcusible and frankly, I'd rather have my taxes go towards this cause then some other things they're spending our money on... <p>What? Your taxes shouldn't be going to help the fight against disease? What the hell else should they be going to? </p><p>My taxes pay for bridges and roads, sanitation, environmental cleanup, crime prevention and prosecution, and g-d knows what else. Are you saying the betterment of human life through disease research doesn't fall under the purview of federal tax spending?</p><p>Do you have any idea how much money the federal government spends on medical research each year? AIDS? Heart disease? Cancer? Genetic issues? MS? </p><p>The only reason this particular method of research garnered any public interest is because conservative republicans decided this would be the perfect wedge issue to divide the country. By painting stem cell research with the same christian blasphemy they do with abortion, they energize thier base by portraying themselves as devout defends of the word of g-d. It's fucking ridiculous. </p><p>Your taxes SHOULD be spent on medical research. It may save YOUR life one day, or the lives of people you love, not to mention your fellow citizens.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>What if someone disagrees with stem cell research? There's a good number of them... our president for example. Are we going to force them to support it (with their money)? Just because they have their heads up their asses, it does not discredit their opinions or their ability to choose what to do with their money. And for the record, I understand that a lot of tax dollars go towards medical research already, but we don't need any more of our tax dollars going towards anything. At this point in the game, we should be re-allocating money, not throwing <em>more</em> money into (already failing) things. Also, I really hope that medical research saves my life one day... cuz that was my damn money going into it!!! <p>What if someone disagrees with the war in Iraq (I'd bet that there's more of them than disagree with stem cell research).&nbsp; Should they have the option of not having their taxes go towards the war?&nbsp; </p><p>I can only wish. </p>

[EliSnow]

<strong>SatCam</strong> wrote: <p>&nbsp;</p>What if someone disagrees with stem cell research? There's a good number of them... our president for example. Are we going to force them to support it (with their money)? <p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">Yes.&nbsp; Other than voting, no one really gets a say how their tax money is spent.&nbsp; As others have pointed out, many people are against the war, and no one can argue that any one agains the war can withhold their taxes because they don't want their money spent on the war.</font></p>

[Death Metal Moe]

<p>I am so for stem cell research I'd volunteer to go in with the Handi-Vac and harvest them myself.</p><p>I cannot wait for G.W. to get the fuck out of office.&nbsp; These are the Faith Based descisions he makes that make me want to vomit.</p><p>I wish there was a real way to impeach him for all the religion he's brought into our government.</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />My taxes shouldn't be going towards this. If I want to donate money to the cause, I can. I kind've hope he vetos this on principle But his position on the issue is inexcusible and frankly, I'd rather have my taxes go towards this cause then some other things they're spending our money on... <p>And I dont want my taxes going towards churches, yet he has signed a bill that gives money to religious organazations.</p>

[booster11373]

I really hope the Pendulum swings both ways with political climate in this country because the party once this guy and his kind or gone is going to be fucking huge.

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by booster11373 on 7-17-06 @ 3:22 PM</span>

[TheGameHHH]

Jeff, when I first saw this story onlined i IMed one of my friends with the link and all I could say is, 'This disappoints me more than his blunder in Iraq'. I'm honestly ashamed this man is our president.

[FMJeff]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />My taxes shouldn't be going towards this. If I want to donate money to the cause, I can. I kind've hope he vetos this on principle But his position on the issue is inexcusible and frankly, I'd rather have my taxes go towards this cause then some other things they're spending our money on... <p>What? Your taxes shouldn't be going to help the fight against disease? What the hell else should they be going to? </p><p>My taxes pay for bridges and roads, sanitation, environmental cleanup, crime prevention and prosecution, and g-d knows what else. Are you saying the betterment of human life through disease research doesn't fall under the purview of federal tax spending?</p><p>Do you have any idea how much money the federal government spends on medical research each year? AIDS? Heart disease? Cancer? Genetic issues? MS? </p><p>The only reason this particular method of research garnered any public interest is because conservative republicans decided this would be the perfect wedge issue to divide the country. By painting stem cell research with the same christian blasphemy they do with abortion, they energize thier base by portraying themselves as devout defends of the word of g-d. It's fucking ridiculous. </p><p>Your taxes SHOULD be spent on medical research. It may save YOUR life one day, or the lives of people you love, not to mention your fellow citizens.</p><p> </p>What if someone disagrees with stem cell research? There's a good number of them... our president for example. Are we going to force them to support it (with their money)? Just because they have their heads up their asses, it does not discredit their opinions or their ability to choose what to do with their money. And for the record, I understand that a lot of tax dollars go towards medical research already, but we don't need any more of our tax dollars going towards anything. At this point in the game, we should be re-allocating money, not throwing <em>more</em> money into (already failing) things. Also, I really hope that medical research saves my life one day... cuz that was my damn money going into it!!! <p>What if someone disagrees with the war in Iraq (I'd bet that there's more of them than disagree with stem cell research). Should they have the option of not having their taxes go towards the war? </p><p>I can only wish. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Should they have the option? No. People, when given the power to choose what their money is spent on, will more likely than not abuse the power and spend it on shit that only benefits them. Ie Taxpayers with cancer will not spend the money on roads when they can funnel it all into cancer research, and visa versa. </p><p>I do, however, believe Congress should have ultimate power when it comes to all things war related, with the executive branch having very little, limited to say recommendations only.</p><p>Or is that how it is now? &nbsp;</p>

[FMJeff]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>TheGameHHH</strong> wrote:<br />Jeff, when I first saw this story onlined i IMed one of my friends with the link and all I could say is, 'This disappoints me more than his blunder in Iraq'. I'm honestly ashamed this man is our president. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>He's a pig of a man. </p><p>Did anybody hear about how he cursed off mic and it got recorded?</p><p>http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/17/russia.g8.bushexpletive/</p><p><strong>Blair: Well it's only or if she's gonna or if she needs the ground
prepared as it were. See, if she goes out she's got to succeed as it
were, where as I can just go out and talk. </strong></p><p><strong>Bush: See the irony is what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over. </strong></p><p>Thank you, recording technology, for allowing us an insight into the foriegn policy throught process of George Bush. Yes, let's get Syria to get Hezbollah to anything. Even better, let's get Syria to help out the US and Zionist Israel.</p><p>Ugh, I want to take a dump in your mouth, because that's all that comes out.</p><p>Fucking let a curse fly while talking to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Low class piece of texas trash. &nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Dudeman]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>TheGameHHH</strong> wrote:<br />Jeff,
when I first saw this story onlined i IMed one of my friends with the
link and all I could say is, 'This disappoints me more than his blunder
in Iraq'. I'm honestly ashamed this man is our president. <p> </p><p> </p><p>He's a pig of a man. </p><p>Did anybody hear about how he cursed off mic and it got recorded?</p><p>http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/17/russia.g8.bushexpletive/</p><p><strong>Blair: Well it's only or if she's gonna or if she needs the ground
prepared as it were. See, if she goes out she's got to succeed as it
were, where as I can just go out and talk. </strong></p><p><strong>Bush: See the irony is what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over. </strong></p><p>Thank
you, recording technology, for allowing us an insight into the foriegn
policy throught process of George Bush. Yes, let's get Syria to get
Hezbollah to anything. Even better, let's get Syria to help out the US
and Zionist Israel.</p><p>Ugh, I want to take a dump in your mouth, because that's all that comes out.</p><p>Fucking let a curse fly while talking to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Low class piece of texas trash. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>that
is the extent of his comprehension of this situation (or any foreign,
domestic, etc. issue in the world.)&nbsp; unless someone (cheney, rice,
hadley, rumsfeld, etc.) tell him what to say, he has no clue about the
history, culture, legislation, precedent, or anything having to do with
anything.</p><p>ask him about middle east politics and the outbrake of major violence, on an internation stage, you get him talking about pigs:</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBxbuweRFQQ</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>(sorry my browser doesn't do links)&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

I agree with Bush. Somebody has to grab Syria by the scruff of its neck and say &quot;HEY! Cut the malarkey, buster!&quot;<br />

[FMJeff]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Dudeman</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>TheGameHHH</strong> wrote:<br />Jeff,
when I first saw this story onlined i IMed one of my friends with the
link and all I could say is, 'This disappoints me more than his blunder
in Iraq'. I'm honestly ashamed this man is our president. <p> </p><p> </p><p>He's a pig of a man. </p><p>Did anybody hear about how he cursed off mic and it got recorded?</p><p>http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/17/russia.g8.bushexpletive/</p><p><strong>Blair: Well it's only or if she's gonna or if she needs the ground
prepared as it were. See, if she goes out she's got to succeed as it
were, where as I can just go out and talk. </strong></p><p><strong>Bush: See the irony is what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over. </strong></p><p>Thank
you, recording technology, for allowing us an insight into the foriegn
policy throught process of George Bush. Yes, let's get Syria to get
Hezbollah to anything. Even better, let's get Syria to help out the US
and Zionist Israel.</p><p>Ugh, I want to take a dump in your mouth, because that's all that comes out.</p><p>Fucking let a curse fly while talking to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Low class piece of texas trash. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>that
is the extent of his comprehension of this situation (or any foreign,
domestic, etc. issue in the world.) unless someone (cheney, rice,
hadley, rumsfeld, etc.) tell him what to say, he has no clue about the
history, culture, legislation, precedent, or anything having to do with
anything.</p><p>ask him about middle east politics and the outbrake of major violence, on an internation stage, you get him talking about pigs:</p><p> </p><p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBxbuweRFQQ</p><p> </p><p>(sorry my browser doesn't do links) </p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>SO WHY DID FUCKING AT LEAST HALF OF THIS FUCKING COUNTRY ELECT THE MOTHERFUCKER? </p><p>The election process has to be fucking rigged, it doesn't make fucking sense. &nbsp;</p><blockquote />

[narc]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>Tenbatsuzen</strong> wrote:<br><p>All I can say is that once GW is out (two years) and either a progressive Republican (Giuliani) or an acceptable Democrat is put in, the pandora's box of stem cell research will be opened. Once it's opened, it won't be closed.</p><p> </p><p>See: Roe v. Wade.</p><p> </p><p>The weird thing is, Frist is a pal o' Bush, yet he's saying that stem cell research needs to be expanded, which just shows how out of his mind our President is.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>

It's true. This isn't really even a Republican vs. Democrat issue. Nancy Reagan even wants stem cell research.

[Furtherman]

<p>It hurts, doesn't it?&nbsp; I want to love my fellow American, but those who can look at him and think, &quot;That's my president&quot; with beaming pride?&nbsp; Something is wrong.</p><p>As of today, <a href="http://www.backwardsbush.com/" target="_blank">917 days to go.</a></p><p><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/glurps.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Dudeman]

<strong><strong /></strong><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong>that
is the extent of his comprehension of this situation (or any foreign,
domestic, etc. issue in the world.) unless someone (cheney, rice,
hadley, rumsfeld, etc.) tell him what to say, he has no clue about the
history, culture, legislation, precedent, or anything having to do with
anything.</strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong>ask him about middle east politics and the outbrake of major violence, on an internation stage, you get him talking about pigs:</strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBxbuweRFQQ</strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong>(sorry my browser doesn't do links) </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong>SO WHY DID FUCKING AT LEAST HALF OF THIS FUCKING COUNTRY ELECT THE MOTHERFUCKER? </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong>The election process has to be fucking rigged, it doesn't make fucking sense. </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong>democracy
depends on informed, intelligent people. even socrates and plato both
found great faults with democracy (for example, socrates complained
that politicians could use fancy speech tricks to fool the people to
get votes.) none of this is new. of course im not saying im against
democracy, but it does have its faults (see election, bush and hamas)<br />
</strong></strong></strong></p><p><strong><strong><strong> </strong></strong></strong></p>



<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Dudeman on 7-17-06 @ 5:58 PM</span>

[FMJeff]

it should be set up like if you voted for a complete fuckign suckfest of a president you lose your right to vote for two terms...<br />

[Gvac]

<p>I know full well it will never happen, but my sincerest hope is that people give up identifying themselves as either a &quot;Republican&quot; or &quot;Democrat&quot; and instead judge the <strong><em>person </em></strong>who happens to win an election and hold office. </p><p>I dislike George W. Bush intensely, just as I did his predecessor Bill Clinton.&nbsp; Yet I had to endure people telling me how great Clinton was every day merely because they considered themselves democrats.&nbsp; If Bush was a democrat, would you despise him as much, or look for ways to make excuses for him like republicans do?&nbsp; </p><p>I fear that our next president could be the most vile son of a bitch the earth has ever seen, yet people will defend his every action by saying &quot;at least he's not Bush&quot; or &quot;at least he's not a republican&quot; or whatever. &nbsp;</p><p>It's funny how people have no problem railing against organized religions and mocking people who identify themselves as &quot;muslim&quot; or &quot;christian&quot; yet are even more fanatical when it comes to their political party of choice. </p><p>To paraphrase Martin Luther King, I'd like to see a day when people are judged on the content of their character, not the color of their skin, their religion, or their political affiliation. &nbsp;</p>

[Dudeman]

<strong>Gvac</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I
know full well it will never happen, but my sincerest hope is that
people give up identifying themselves as either a &quot;Republican&quot; or
&quot;Democrat&quot; and instead judge the <strong><em>person </em></strong>who happens to win an election and hold office. </p><p>I
dislike George W. Bush intensely, just as I did his predecessor Bill
Clinton. Yet I had to endure people telling me how great Clinton was
every day merely because they considered themselves democrats. If Bush
was a democrat, would you despise him as much, or look for ways to make
excuses for him like republicans do? </p><p>I fear that our next
president could be the most vile son of a bitch the earth has ever
seen, yet people will defend his every action by saying &quot;at least he's
not Bush&quot; or &quot;at least he's not a republican&quot; or whatever. </p><p>It's
funny how people have no problem railing against organized religions
and mocking people who identify themselves as &quot;muslim&quot; or &quot;christian&quot;
yet are even more fanatical when it comes to their political party of
choice. </p><p>To paraphrase Martin Luther King, I'd like to see a day
when people are judged on the content of their character, not the color
of their skin, their religion, or their political affiliation. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>on
the flip side is all the morons (lef and right) who said they couldn't
see the difference between bush and gore in 2000 (of course that was
because both, especially bush, were trying to pretend to be middle of
the road.)&nbsp; but basically by virtue of their parties you should
know&nbsp; the types of&nbsp; judges they are going to put on the
supreme court (thomas vs. breyer). people who cant see that are dumb. </p><p>and to answer your question- of course, i would still fucking hate bush if he were a democrat.<br />
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[suggums]

<p>bush needs to stop doin this shit</p>

[Dudeman]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>suggums</strong> wrote:<br /><p>bush needs to stop doin this shit</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>the
video (see the front of cnn.com) is even worse.&nbsp; blair is trying
to talk to bush, and he can't have anything even close to an
intelligent conversation with him, or even just stop chewing on his
food.&nbsp; he is flat out a stupid man.&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[CuzBum]

<p>Does anyone have stuff on stem cells, like where they come from and what they do?</p>

[Dudeman]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Does anyone have stuff on stem cells, like where they come from and what they do?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="1">if
somehow you can get access to the new england journal of medicine, i
think a pretty uncomplicated paper (that covers what a stem cell is,
embryonic vs. adult stem cells, and how they might be used) is &quot;</font><font size="1">Prometheus's vulture and the stem-cell promise.&quot; from july 17, 2003.</font> <br />
</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[keithy_19]

<p>Having a disease and knowing that stem cell research would greatly improve my chances of some day not having to worry about it, I should be totally for it. Amazingly, I'm not.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm for stem cell research, but I'm not for it if it makes it ok to abort unborn children. But hey, that's just me. </p>

[HBox]

<p><span class="postbody">I'm for stem cell research, but I'm not for it if it makes it ok to abort unborn children. But hey, that's just me.</span></p><p>You don't need to use anything from an abortion&nbsp; for stem cell research. Left over embryos from in vitro fertilization that would otherwise be destroyed and discarded are used.<br /></p>

[SatCam]

I am not saying that people should choose where their tax dollars go. I understand the concept. What I'm saying is NO tax dollars should go towards stem cell research.

<strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br><p>And it goes by majority, Satcam. If 70% of the population wants it, then the other 30% can go fuck, because I guarantee you they don't want it for religious reasons or they're not informed of the benefits and go with the flock. </p><p></p>

70% of the population supports stem cell research. I am one of them.

That does not automatically mean that 70% of the population wants tax dollars going towards it. This is not about banning/allowing stem cell research. This is about taking money from the American public and putting it towards it.

[Dougie Brootal]

<strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />I am not saying that people should choose where their tax dollars go. I understand the concept. What I'm saying is NO tax dollars should go towards stem cell research. <strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br /><p>And it goes by majority, Satcam. If 70% of the population wants it, then the other 30% can go fuck, because I guarantee you they don't want it for religious reasons or they're not informed of the benefits and go with the flock. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>70% of the population supports stem cell research. I am one of them. That does not automatically mean that 70% of the population wants tax dollars going towards it. This is not about banning/allowing stem cell research. This is about taking money from the American public and putting it towards it. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>well i dont want any of my taxes going to the war. and i hope you get alzheimers.</p>

[Gvac]

<p>More wars, less research!</p><p>Thin the herd, I say.&nbsp;</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br />it should be set up like if you voted for a complete fuckign suckfest of a president you lose your right to vote for two terms...<br /><p>and people who&nbsp;cause an accident on the parkway on a shore day should get bitch slapped by every person stuck in traffic...</p><p>just sayin'</p>

[mdr55]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br />it
should be set up like if you voted for a complete fuckign suckfest of a
president you lose your right to vote for two terms...<br /><p>and people who cause an accident on the parkway on a shore day should get bitch slapped by every person stuck in traffic...</p><p>just sayin'</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>But that lady WOW me. The accident wasn't my fault.&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[UnknownPD]

<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">You guys confuse the shit out of me. I just read in another thread that you are against religion&nbsp; although 90 some percent of the population supports it.&nbsp;Now you say Bush should support stem cells because 70% of the people want it. What gives...public opinion only counts when you agree with it?</font>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by UnknownPD on 7-17-06 @ 9:38 PM</span>

[FMJeff]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>UnknownPD</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2" face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">You guys confuse the shit out of me. I just read in another thread that you are against religion although 90 some percent of the population supports it. Now you say Bush should support stem cells because 70% of the people want it. What gives...public opinion only counts when you agree with it?</font>

<span class="post_edited">This message was edited by UnknownPD on 7-17-06 @ 9:38 PM</span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>To clarify, I am not against religion. It serves its purpose as a lifestyle model for those who find value in it. It's when the lifestyle model is imposed on mine, that's where my ire comes from. I oppose any government that follows the tenets of a particular religion and applies it to a multi-religious and athestic population, which is the case here. Look, if I lived in Christianland, I could see thier point...I would have to accept this is the way it is bc that is how Christianland works...but this isn't Christianland. To dismiss science based on religion is lunacy, and 70% agree.</p><p>In other words, the debates are separate. While a large majority of this country believes in religion, a different large majroity believes practice medical research is essential to the survival of our species and betterment of human life.&nbsp; It's pragmatism in action...and I'm fucking damn proud there's still some of that left in this country. COMMON SENSE, the realization that believing in immaculate conceptions, angels, devils and the like are not going to cure AIDS, cancer or anything else. It's a GOOD sign, one which should be cultivated,&nbsp; but of course, here we have a man that's going to set us back another couple of years until hopefully a fucking decent president takes his place. </p><p>Bush's presidency will go into the history books as the most shameful 8 years in existence, not because he broke laws like Nixon or got a BJ in the oval like Clinton, but because through inaction and indecision and phony rhetoric, he accomplished very little good with such extensive resources. </p><p>The only thing I will say I'm proud our president accomplished was the creation of the coral reef sanctuary in Hawaii. Good show on that one. If you had any idea how fucked up the reefs are you'd be thanking him too. I've seen the damage first hand. The bleaching is so bad in the caribbean I don't know how much longer it has left. Imagine miles of dead coral, just dead...white...nothing. &nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

<p><a href="http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/aktuell/2006/07/18/merkel-bush-liebes-attacke/merkel-bush-liebes-attacke.html" target="_blank">Oh Bush! Will you ever learn!?</a></p><p>Watch that little video on the right and watch 4 of the most awkward seconds in human history. Can we just lock him away in a bubble for the next 2 and a quarter years? Please?&nbsp;</p><a href="http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/aktuell/2006/07/18/merkel-bush-liebes-attacke/merkel-bush-liebes-attacke.html" target="_blank"></a>

[Furtherman]

<strong>keithy_19</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Having a disease and knowing that stem cell research would greatly improve my chances of some day not having to worry about it, I should be totally for it. Amazingly, I'm not.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm for stem cell research, but I'm not for it if it makes it ok to abort unborn children. But hey, that's just me. </p><p>I am sorry for your situation, but you last sentence just shows your ignorance.&nbsp; Unfortunatley that is the way for most people who get their information from the wrong people instead of simply looking into it themselves.</p><p>You do not have to be anywhere near an abortion in order to study and reap the benefits of stem cell research.</p><p>So be for it.&nbsp; Be for 100%.&nbsp; It could help you someday.</p>

[Jujubees2]

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: verdana">I just love GWBs logic.&nbsp; He's against harming an embryo (that will probably be destroyed anyway) for stem cell research but he has no problem destroying tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilian in the name of freedom.&nbsp; And then he has the balls to tell Israel to try and keep the killing of innocent Lebanese to a minimum.&nbsp;</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: verdana"><img height="253" src="http://www.topplebush.com/humor/Bush_partialbirthabortions.jpg" width="409" border="0" /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: verdana"><img height="323" src="http://www.ambrosiasw.com/~andrew/funny/kerrys_dog.jpg" width="480" border="0" /></span></p>

[FMJeff]

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/18/eavesdropping.gonzales.ap/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/18/eavesdropping.gonzales.ap/index.html</a></p><p>WOOHOO chalk another up to our fine presidente</p>

[keithy_19]

<p>WOOHOO chalk another up to our fine presidente</p><p>Bush: That's Russian for president!</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>Can we bring back &quot;That's My Bush!&quot;?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[SatCam]

well i dont want any of my taxes going to the war. and i hope you get alzheimers.

yes, because I want all of our tax dollars to go towards the war. That was my plan from the start.

wait, what were we talking about?

[HBox]

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5193216.stm" target="_blank">Stem Cell bill passes the Senate 63-37, not a veto proof majority.</a><br />

[Furtherman]

<p>I'm proud of our Senate today.</p><p>Our president?&nbsp; Remains to be seen on this issue....</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><a target="_blank" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5193216.stm">Stem Cell bill passes the Senate 63-37, not a veto proof majority.</a><br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Four votes off.&nbsp; Fuckers.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[CuzBum]

What is the situation with private funding, is there any at all?

[SatCam]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br>What is the situation with private funding, is there any at all?<p></p>

Why should there be when you've got public money!!!!!


http://gallery.hd.org/_exhibits/natural-science/wood-fire-small-rotated-AJHD.jpg

[HBox]

Pharmaceutical companies are too busy researching the 18th dick pill or the 114th cholesterol pill.<br />

[narc]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br><font color=Navy><font size=2>Pharmaceutical companies are too busy researching the 18th dick pill or the 114th cholesterol pill.</font></font><br /><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>

Well, what's the point of remembering anything if none of your memories involve an 8 inch cock?

[joeyballsack]

<p>If this was given federal funding, do you think that the pharmaceutical companies would give us, the taxpayers, any break on paying for any kind of cure/treatment that comes out of that funding ?</p><p>Of course they wouldnt. They would laugh all the way to the bank about how they are taking money from us not once...but twice and there would be nothing that can be done about it. </p><p>I am with Ron, the big drug companies scare the shit out of me. They have the FDA in thier pockets and can name thier price for any product they put out. </p><p>Besides..its my theory that they are the reason why pot is illegal. </p><p>Fuckers. </p>

[HBox]

<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13921204/from/RS.3/" target="_blank">Bush to speak at NAACP convention tomorrow.</a></p><p><img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/ohmy.gif" />&nbsp;</p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13921204/from/RS.3/" target="_blank"></a>

[HBox]

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13934199/" target="_blank">This man is an absolute national embarrassment.</a><br />

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13934199/">This man is an absolute national embarrassment.</a><br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Agreed.&nbsp; What an ass.&nbsp; Can we ban him too for a week?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Jujubees2]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13921204/from/RS.3/" target="_blank">Bush to speak at NAACP convention tomorrow.</a></p><p><img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/ohmy.gif" border="0" />&nbsp;</p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13921204/from/RS.3/" target="_blank"></a><p>Should be a very short speech.</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Tenbatsuzen</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13934199/" target="_blank">This man is an absolute national embarrassment.</a><br /><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Agreed. What an ass. Can we ban him too for a week?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>How about two and a half years?&nbsp;</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>Tenbatsuzen</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13934199/">This man is an absolute national embarrassment.</a><br /><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Agreed. What an ass. Can we ban him too for a week?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p><font color="Navy"><font size="2">How about two and a half years?</font></font> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The problem is, outside of McCain and Giuliani, who are the alternatives?&nbsp; Plus, the problem with this regime is that they are fucking POISONING the next republican campaign.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Furtherman]

<p>This is vile.&nbsp; </p><p>A disgrace.</p>

[Recyclerz]

<p>I haven't posted in this thread yet for fear that if I started typing I just couldn't stop but now that Bush has vetoed the legislation I wanted to toss up this link wherein a bioethics guy takes our Dear Leader out.&nbsp; </p><p><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="209" border="0"><tr height="17"><td width="209" height="17"><font face="Arial" size="2"><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13935219/from/RS.1/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13935219/from/RS.1/</a></font></td></tr></table></p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

<p>Here is a list of the stone agers in the Senate who voted against it: (Bold ones are up for re-election this year)</p><p>Allard (R-CO)<br />
<strong>Allen (R-VA)</strong><br />
Bond (R-MO)<br />
Brownback (R-KS)<br />
Bunning (R-KY)<br />
<strong>Burns (R-MT)</strong><br />
Chambliss (R-GA)<br />
Coburn (R-OK)<br />
Coleman (R-MN)<br />
Cornyn (R-TX)<br />
Craig (R-ID)<br />
Crapo (R-ID)<br />
DeMint (R-SC)<br />
<strong>DeWine (R-OH)</strong><br />
Dole (R-NC)<br />
Domenici (R-NM)<br />
<strong>Ensign (R-NV)</strong><br />
Enzi (R-WY)<br />
Graham (R-SC)<br />
Grassley (R-IA)<br />
Hagel (R-NE)<br />
Inhofe (R-OK)<br />
Isakson (R-GA)<br />
<strong>Kyl (R-AZ)</strong><br />
Martinez (R-FL)<br />
McConnell (R-KY)<br />
<strong>Nelson (D-NE)</strong><br />
Roberts (R-KS)<br />
<strong>Santorum (R-PA)</strong><br />
Sessions (R-AL)<br />
Shelby (R-AL)<br />
Sununu (R-NH)<br />
<strong>Talent (R-MO)<br />
Thomas (R-WY)</strong><br />
Thune (R-SD)<br />
Vitter (R-LA)<br />
Voinovich (R-OH) <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><a href="http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll204.xml" target="_blank">And here is the roll call for the House vote.</a>&nbsp;</p><p>I can't describe how angry I am that my representative voted against it. I have to believe that the people who live around me are just ignorant. I can't stomach that this nutcase keeps getting elected by huge margins because people know what they are voting for.</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>Doesn't shock me that Santorum voted against it.&nbsp; <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What the fuck is the deal with the lone Democrat who voted against it?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Oh.&nbsp; He's a conservative Methodist.&nbsp; Never mind.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>McCain voted yes, Kyl voted no.&nbsp; Absolute fucking idiocy.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Shelby was on the Senate Committee on Aging, he voted no.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Do we have an age breakdown on who voted no?&nbsp; Wikipedia is giving me a lot of older men, outside of Sununu.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Also, can we get a list on who voted yes?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

<p><font color="Navy"><font size="2">Yeas in the Senate:</font></font></p><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" border="0" class="contenttext"><tr valign="top"><td width="33%" class="contenttext">Akaka (D-HI)<br />Alexander (R-TN)<br />Baucus (D-MT)<br />Bayh (D-IN)<br />Bennett (R-UT)<br />Biden (D-DE)<br />Bingaman (D-NM)<br />Boxer (D-CA)<br />Burr (R-NC)<br />Byrd (D-WV)<br />Cantwell (D-WA)<br />Carper (D-DE)<br />Chafee (R-RI)<br />Clinton (D-NY)<br />Cochran (R-MS)<br />Collins (R-ME)<br />Conrad (D-ND)<br />Dayton (D-MN)<br />Dodd (D-CT)<br />Dorgan (D-ND)<br />Durbin (D-IL)<br /></td><td width="33%" class="contenttext">Feingold (D-WI)<br />Feinstein (D-CA)<br />Frist (R-TN)<br />Gregg (R-NH)<br />Harkin (D-IA)<br />Hatch (R-UT)<br />Hutchison (R-TX)<br />Inouye (D-HI)<br />Jeffords (I-VT)<br />Johnson (D-SD)<br />Kennedy (D-MA)<br />Kerry (D-MA)<br />Kohl (D-WI)<br />Landrieu (D-LA)<br />Lautenberg (D-NJ)<br />Leahy (D-VT)<br />Levin (D-MI)<br />Lieberman (D-CT)<br />Lincoln (D-AR)<br />Lott (R-MS)<br />Lugar (R-IN)<br /> </td><td width="33%" class="contenttext">McCain (R-AZ)<br />Menendez (D-NJ)<br />Mikulski (D-MD)<br />Murkowski (R-AK)<br />Murray (D-WA)<br />Nelson (D-FL)<br />Obama (D-IL)<br />Pryor (D-AR)<br />Reed (D-RI)<br />Reid (D-NV)<br />Rockefeller (D-WV)<br />Salazar (D-CO)<br />Sarbanes (D-MD)<br />Schumer (D-NY)<br />Smith (R-OR)<br />Snowe (R-ME)<br />Specter (R-PA)<br />Stabenow (D-MI)<br />Stevens (R-AK)<br />Warner (R-VA)<br />Wyden (D-OR)</td></tr></table><p> </p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by HBox on 7-19-06 @ 5:25 PM</span>

[HBox]

Even crazy old coot Ted &quot;PIPES!!!! INTERNETS!!&quot; Stevens voted yea.<br />

[Tenbatsuzen]

<p>Between this and the Dallas Austin thing, Hatch has been scoring a lot of cool points lately.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>McCain for President.&nbsp; That is all.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

<p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13939211/site/newsweek/">People are unloading on Bush like never before.</a><br /></p><p>The veto comes as no surprise; that battle
line was drawn years ago. But it&rsquo;s hard to believe that the 70 percent
of Americans who support stem-cell research really care what President
Bush does. I&rsquo;m not suggesting they won&rsquo;t notice, or be bothered&mdash;even
annoyed. I&rsquo;m certainly not suggesting that federal funding couldn&rsquo;t
move research along at a faster pace. But caring is an emotion of a
deeper kind. When we truly care about another&rsquo;s opinion, it&rsquo;s because
we value that person and hold in some esteem their judgments and
pronouncements. It also might mean we believe that individual can
influence the tide of the future with their opinions.</p><p class="textBodyBlack">This
is a president who has no currency left with the majority of Americans
who, polls have shown, do not trust him. We won&rsquo;t totally shrug off his
intransigence, but we won&rsquo;t waste too much time mulling over his
reasons either. Why? Because we don&rsquo;t <em>care</em>.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by HBox on 7-19-06 @ 11:04 PM</span>

[narc]

Jesus, even Lott voted yes. Although I hear Lott has a grudge against Bush because he blames him for getting removed as Majority Leader.

[PapaBear]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">Yeas in the Senate:</font></font></p><table class="contenttext" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" border="0"><tr valign="top"><td class="contenttext" width="33%">Akaka (D-HI)<br />Alexander (R-TN)<br />Baucus (D-MT)<br />Bayh (D-IN)<br />Bennett (R-UT)<br />Biden (D-DE)<br />Bingaman (D-NM)<br />Boxer (D-CA)<br />Burr (R-NC)<br />Byrd (D-WV)<br />Cantwell (D-WA)<br />Carper (D-DE)<br /><strong><font size="4">Chafee (R-RI)<br /></font></strong>Clinton (D-NY)<br />Cochran (R-MS)<br />Collins (R-ME)<br />Conrad (D-ND)<br />Dayton (D-MN)<br />Dodd (D-CT)<br />Dorgan (D-ND)<br />Durbin (D-IL)<br /></td><td class="contenttext" width="33%">Feingold (D-WI)<br />Feinstein (D-CA)<br />Frist (R-TN)<br />Gregg (R-NH)<br />Harkin (D-IA)<br />Hatch (R-UT)<br />Hutchison (R-TX)<br />Inouye (D-HI)<br />Jeffords (I-VT)<br />Johnson (D-SD)<br />Kennedy (D-MA)<br />Kerry (D-MA)<br />Kohl (D-WI)<br />Landrieu (D-LA)<br />Lautenberg (D-NJ)<br />Leahy (D-VT)<br />Levin (D-MI)<br />Lieberman (D-CT)<br />Lincoln (D-AR)<br />Lott (R-MS)<br />Lugar (R-IN)<br /></td><td class="contenttext" width="33%">McCain (R-AZ)<br />Menendez (D-NJ)<br />Mikulski (D-MD)<br />Murkowski (R-AK)<br />Murray (D-WA)<br />Nelson (D-FL)<br />Obama (D-IL)<br />Pryor (D-AR)<br />Reed (D-RI)<br />Reid (D-NV)<br />Rockefeller (D-WV)<br />Salazar (D-CO)<br />Sarbanes (D-MD)<br />Schumer (D-NY)<br />Smith (R-OR)<br />Snowe (R-ME)<br />Specter (R-PA)<br />Stabenow (D-MI)<br />Stevens (R-AK)<br />Warner (R-VA)<br />Wyden (D-OR)</td></tr></table><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by HBox on 7-19-06 @ 5:25 PM</span> <p>She's in the Senate, now?</p><p><img height="433" src="http://www.kubby.com/SKI.WEST/cover.suzi.8x10.jpg" width="338" border="0" /></p>

[LordJezo]

<p>Bush is great for doing this.&nbsp; He is standing up for what is right and good for our country.<br />
</p><p>Kudos to him.&nbsp; Only makes me support him more.&nbsp; I'd
rather have people die of natural causes then live in a nation of mass
baby killing in the name of science.&nbsp; Too bad we can't give him a 3rd term, I'd vote for Mr. Bush again in an instant.<br />
</p>

[narc]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br><p>Bush is great for doing this. He is standing up for what is right and good for our country.<br />
</p><p>Kudos to him. Only makes me support him more. I'd
rather have people die of natural causes then live in a nation of mass
baby killing in the name of science. Too bad we can't give him a 3rd term, I'd vote for Mr. Bush again in an instant.<br />
</p><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>
FMJeff is going to hurt you.

[Jujubees2]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Bush is great for doing this.&nbsp; He is standing up for what is right and good for our country.<br /></p><p>Kudos to him.&nbsp; Only makes me support him more.&nbsp; I'd rather have people die of natural causes then live in a nation of mass baby killing in the name of science.&nbsp; Too bad we can't give him a 3rd term, I'd vote for Mr. Bush again in an instant.<br /></p><p><font size="2">I hope you're not serious but if you are, answer me this &quot;moral&quot; question.&nbsp; How does GWB justify the killing of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians and over 2,500 U.S. troops for no apparent reason and then veto a bill that has the potential to benefit hundreds of thousands of people?&nbsp; And it's not baby killing.&nbsp; The embryos are left over at fertility clinics that most likely will be discarded anyway.</font></p>

[Knowledged_one]

bush has killed iraqi civilians i must have missed something

[Jujubees2]

<strong>Knowledged_one</strong> wrote:<br />bush has killed iraqi civilians i must have missed something <p><font size="2">See if you can connect the dots.&nbsp;&nbsp; Bush sends in troops to Iraq.&nbsp; Troops bomb cities in Iraq.&nbsp; Innocent civilians live in the neighborhoods where the bombs fall.&nbsp; Innocent civilians are killed.</font></p><p><a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.net/">http://www.iraqbodycount.net/</a></p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Bush is great for doing this.&nbsp; He is standing up for what is right and good for our country.<br /></p><p>Kudos to him.&nbsp; Only makes me support him more.&nbsp; I'd rather have people die of natural causes then live in a nation of mass baby killing in the name of science.&nbsp; Too bad we can't give him a 3rd term, I'd vote for Mr. Bush again in an instant.<br /></p><p>There is ignorance.&nbsp; Then there is staggering ignorance.&nbsp; </p><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, Bush, and those agreeing with his veto yesterday, without even bothering to learn the stem cell process and its benefits,&nbsp;rise above staggering ignorance.&nbsp; </p><p>It's dehumanizing.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Knowledged_one</strong> wrote:<br />bush has killed iraqi civilians i must have missed something <p><font size="2">See if you can connect the dots.&nbsp;&nbsp; Bush sends in troops to Iraq.&nbsp; Troops bomb cities in Iraq.&nbsp; Innocent civilians live in the neighborhoods where the bombs fall.&nbsp; Innocent civilians are killed.</font></p><p><a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.net/">http://www.iraqbodycount.net/</a></p><p>Well, those 40,000+ people OBVIOUSLY deserved it...they're all terrorists, right?</p><p>Right?</p>

[SinA]

<p>you know what, he does suck.&nbsp; i'm not even counting the war shit, which is accually an accomplishment for the worse.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>he hasn't been able to do anything he said he would. my social security isn't more secure, my city isn't safer, my kids aren't learning more gooder, the air and water is dirtier than ever, gas is more expensive.</p><p>it's my fault, though.&nbsp; i voted for him in 2000.&nbsp; </p>

[phixion]

<p>Only makes me support him more.&nbsp; I'd rather have people die of natural causes then live in a nation of mass baby killing in the name of science</p><p>that argument doesnt make sense, no one is going to abort a fetus unless they want to. they arent goign to say 'hey its atrendy thing to do so why not? we could always make another baby' think it through, besides as mentioned it doesnt need abortions to continue the study.</p><p>your argument is like saying kid turns 18 so ofcourse he's going to start smoking just because hes 18 and its legal ad trendy&nbsp;now.</p><p>maybe i can touch your hear with timeless song...</p><p>i never meant to be so bad to you, one thing i said that i would never do,&nbsp;one look from you and would fall from from grace, and that would wipe the smile right&nbsp;from my faaaace, do you remember when we used to dance? and its a dance that rose from circumstance, one thing led to another we were young,and we scream together songs unsuuuung....&nbsp;it was the heat of the moment tellin me what your heart meant it was the heat of the moment that shone in your eyes</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>im all for stem cell research so i can make my own shakey's pizza</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Bush is great for doing this.&nbsp; He is standing up for what is right and good for our country.<br /></p><p>Kudos to him.&nbsp; Only makes me support him more.&nbsp; I'd rather have people die of natural causes then live in a nation of mass baby killing in the name of science.&nbsp; Too bad we can't give him a 3rd term, I'd vote for Mr. Bush again in an instant.<br /></p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">Here is an example why religion is really the root of all evil. People have such blind faith that they dont know or bother to learn the truth about anything.</font></p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">I have an idea, all you religious people have a problem with abortion adopt every baby and raise them. all. Even though abortion has nothing to do with stem cell research. I'm just so tired of the religious right having a problem with abortion. The same people who want to outlaw abortion are the same ones who dont want to raise taxes or give money to the poor or have welfare for unwed single parents. Who is going to raise all these babaies that you dont want aborted? Amazing. </font></p><p><font face="Arial" size="3">If you believe in god and that abortion is bad, then dont have one. Someone else having an abortion has nothing to do with you, so mind your own business and go pray for yourself.</font></p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">These people are so against &quot;murder&quot; of frozen goo but yet thye have no problem with the death penalty or killing via war. You cant have it both ways.</font></p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">Here is the plan, when we do find cure via private money and reasearch all you religious assholes shouldnt benefit from it, you have no reason to live longer because you cant wait for your after life because thats the greatest. Well I want to live and enjoy REAL LIFE now and for as long as we can, to me this is it.</font></p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">70% of American want stem cell research, 65% of americans do not agree with Iraq. Can anyone tell me how a president completly does the opposite of what the majority of the country wants?</font></p><p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="3">Sorry for the long post but stupidty bothers me. My fatter died at 57 from <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'times new roman'; mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-fareast-language: en-us; mso-bidi-language: ar-sa">Diabetes, kidney failure and heart disease. If this would be allowed people like my father wouldnt have to suffer for years and years. My father was sick for 20 years. At 33 they told him he wouldnt live 5 more years and he did for 20 years. Do you know what its like to fear your father can die at anytime and for 20 years? It sucked and I miss him.</span></font></font></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by CampoNJ on 7-20-06 @ 12:10 PM</span>

[LordJezo]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Meh.&nbsp; Once that embryo is fertilized it's a life and destroying it is human murder. <br /></p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>This veto is a straight up endorsement of a religious doctorine by the federal government, no way around it.</p><p>That is wrong.&nbsp; That flies so much in the face of seperating church and state it's not even funny.&nbsp; And it's to strike down something that has a decent shot of helping every single person on the planet for the better.&nbsp; Insanity.</p>

[LordJezo]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<p><font size="3" face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">These people are so against &quot;murder&quot; of frozen goo but yet thye have no problem with the death penalty or killing via war. You cant have it both ways.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yeah we can, bible says so.&nbsp; It's okay to punish the evil with death but not to take an innocent life.&nbsp;</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Meh.&nbsp; Once that embryo is fertilized it's a life and destroying it is human murder. <br /></p><p>That's a completely subjective way of thinking that is not currently endorsed by law or science, and it has no place dictating the actions of the government until either or both DRASTICALLY changes.</p><p>You do realize they're using embryos that are going to be disposed of anyways, right?&nbsp; They could go to researchers who are working to better and prolong the lives of countless people...what could possibly be more &quot;pro-life&quot; than that?</p>

[Jujubees2]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote: <p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">These people are so against &quot;murder&quot; of frozen goo but yet thye have no problem with the death penalty or killing via war. You cant have it both ways.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yeah we can, bible says so.&nbsp; It's okay to punish the evil with death but not to take an innocent life.&nbsp;</p><p>Your Lordship,</p><p>You still haven't answered the moral dilemma in killing innocent civilians.&nbsp; You know, actual living, breathing people.</p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote: <strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, <br /></p><p>Meh.&nbsp; Once that embryo is fertilized it's a life and destroying it is human murder. <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Incredible.</p><p>The embryo doesn't have to be fertilized.&nbsp; </p><p>You are doing a fantastic job of representing the uneducated.&nbsp; Have you even had a thought that wasn't dictated to you by the bible?</p>

[suggums]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, <br /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Meh. Once that embryo is fertilized it's a life and destroying it is human murder. <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>jezo, you're either one of the boards most one-dimensional characters, or someone who cannot form their own opinions without the support of the current administration.</p><p>as if you could tell the difference between an amoeba and a two- or four-celled human.&nbsp;</p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote: <p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">These people are so against &quot;murder&quot; of frozen goo but yet thye have no problem with the death penalty or killing via war. You cant have it both ways.</font></p><p>Yeah we can, bible says so.&nbsp; It's okay to punish the evil with death but not to take an innocent life.&nbsp;</p><p>Your Lordship,</p><p>You still haven't answered the moral dilemma in killing innocent civilians.&nbsp; You know, actual living, breathing people.</p><p>He'll never be able to answer that.&nbsp; Ignorance is bliss.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote: <p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">These people are so against &quot;murder&quot; of frozen goo but yet thye have no problem with the death penalty or killing via war. You cant have it both ways.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yeah we can, bible says so.&nbsp; It's okay to punish the evil with death but not to take an innocent life.&nbsp;</p><p>The Bible says a lot of things that Christians everywhere, from the guy on the street up to Vatican officials, now ignore or treat differently.&nbsp; The Bible is not treated as a static set of rules or even guidelines by Christians themselves...why should we?&nbsp; And since when did the Bible become a dictating document in government policy?&nbsp; It's a book.&nbsp; It's not supposed to have any influence on government decisions.&nbsp; And nowhere does it clarify when human life specifically begins.&nbsp; Plus, it's riddled with stories of God killing whomever he damn well pleases, or ordering people killed for stealing, lying, having sex, or even looking at the wrong people.&nbsp; But we all know your ridiculous board character is going to agree with that.</p>

[phixion]

<p>It's okay to punish the evil with death </p><p>actually if you look at the new testament it says 'turn the other cheek' you(people) do not have the right to judge one another. period thats it thats all. jesus said we will be judged before god, not by a jury of our peers. &quot;he who is wihtout sin may cas thte first stone&quot; is that one familiar? do you know that one? </p><p>it comes down to this which do you love more the constitution or the bible? they are not one in the same, and if you love the bible more than the constitution theres a place in italy for you called the vatican, live there. our founding fathers were face-saving christians, at best.&nbsp;if you have ever read their personal letters and journals they believe a god built and created thsi world and life on it and then just left us to our own devices. thats it. so dont you dare say this is a christian country founded on ideals inherent in the bible. if thats the case its illegal for me to jerk off or say fuck god or say i wish harm upon you for being so ignorant... all of those things are evil in gods eyes.&nbsp;and i should be smited down now. the bible is an archaic book that miscopied dozens upon dozens of times. its like playing telephone the message we get now isnt word for word what it originally was, but the spirit of it holds true. and jesus wouldve been a buddhist if he was alive today.</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote: <p><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">These people are so against &quot;murder&quot; of frozen goo but yet thye have no problem with the death penalty or killing via war. You cant have it both ways.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yeah we can, bible says so.&nbsp; It's okay to punish the evil with death but not to take an innocent life.&nbsp;</p><p>Exactly why the bible has nothing to do with goverment. Not everyone follows or believes in your bible. I sure as hell dont. I just dont understand how so many people can beleive in a book that was written 1800 years ago (200 years after the death of jesus). Back then people thought everything was god. When it rained god was crying, when there was thunder and lightning god was angrey. ooohhhhh. See as we have evolved you learn that the things arent what they seemed in the past. Listen I will tell you a story and you then tell someone and on and on see if the story gets fucked up. Thats the bible.</p>

[Crippler]

Stop attacking the Good Book, heathen.

[HeyGuy]

<strong>Crippler</strong> wrote:<br />Stop attacking the Good Book, heathen. <p>Blow it out yourass, lol we discuss this all the time and you know I hate that book! </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Oh by the way I just dropped a load and killed millions of potential babies. Is that worng or should i go get the towel and donate my sperm to the church to raise and feed and bring to life?</p>

[FUNKMAN]

what forms a conscience?

[Furtherman]

<strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br />what forms a conscience? <p>Billions of neurons located at the front part of your left hemisphere in your brain.&nbsp; </p>

[LordJezo]

<p> </p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote: <strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, <br /></p><p>Meh. Once that embryo is fertilized it's a life and destroying it is human murder. <br /></p><p> </p><p>Incredible.</p><p>The embryo doesn't have to be fertilized. </p><p>You are doing a fantastic job of representing the uneducated. Have you even had a thought that wasn't dictated to you by the bible?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>1) What's an unfertilized embryo?</p><p> </p><p>2) Yeah, Savage on talk radio is where I get a lot of my thoughts, although I feel like he's the only guy out there who knows whats going on.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>3) <span class="postbody"><strong>it comes down to this which do you love more the constitution or the bible?&nbsp;</strong> </span></p><p>-constitution wont save me from eternal damnation.<br />&nbsp;</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by LordJezo on 7-20-06 @ 2:23 PM</span>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote: <strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, <br /></p><p>Meh. Once that embryo is fertilized it's a life and destroying it is human murder. <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Incredible.</p><p>The embryo doesn't have to be fertilized. </p><p>You are doing a fantastic job of representing the uneducated. Have you even had a thought that wasn't dictated to you by the bible?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>1) What's an unfertilized embryo?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>2) Yeah, Savage on talk radio is where I get a lot of my thoughts, although I feel like he's the only guy out there who knows whats going on.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>3) <span class="postbody"><strong>it comes down to this which do you love more the constitution or the bible?&nbsp;</strong> </span></p><p>-constitution wont save me from eternal damnation.<br />&nbsp;</p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by LordJezo on 7-20-06 @ 2:23 PM</span> <p>I live in the here and now, there is no proof of an eternal anything. Thats what you believe. I believe in proof so to me its the &quot;<strong>constitution&quot; </strong></p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote: <strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><br /><p><strong>Considering stem cell research can be done without going near an abortion or an embryo that has any potential of becoming a life</strong>, <br /></p><p>Meh. Once that embryo is fertilized it's a life and destroying it is human murder. <br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Incredible.</p><p>The embryo doesn't have to be fertilized. </p><p>You are doing a fantastic job of representing the uneducated. Have you even had a thought that wasn't dictated to you by the bible?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>1) What's an unfertilized embryo?</p><p>Are you kidding me?&nbsp; It's an embryo that is unfertilized.&nbsp; </p><p>You obviously have absolutley no idea on this stem cell process.&nbsp; You let others fill your head with misinformed and sometimes just plain wrong information.</p><p>At this point something like &quot;grow a set of balls&quot; should be instructed to you, but I feel that &quot;grow some self worth&quot; might be more accurate.</p><p>You can believe in whatever god you want, but an unfertilized embryo is not life.&nbsp; Call up your conscience Savage.&nbsp; He's got a doctorate degree.&nbsp; Ask him what an unfertilized embyro is.</p><p>If he doesn't hang up on you, then ask him if it is life.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[SatCam]

In God We Trust

[Furtherman]

<strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />In God We Trust <p>A phrase that was added to our currency because some minister wrote to the Secretary of the Treasury asking for it to be done.</p><p>First appeared on coins in 1864.&nbsp; Didn't show up on the dollar until 1957.</p><p>Nothing more than a political statement.&nbsp; If there was a god, it would be insulted.</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />In God We Trust <p>A phrase that was added to our currency because some minister wrote to the Secretary of the Treasury asking for it to be done.</p><p>First appeared on coins in 1864.&nbsp; Didn't show up on the dollar until 1957.</p><p>Nothing more than a political statement.&nbsp; If there was a god, it would be insulted.</p><p>I like that!</p>

[SatCam]

<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />In God We Trust <p>A phrase that was added to our currency because some minister wrote to the Secretary of the Treasury asking for it to be done.</p><p>First appeared on coins in 1864. Didn't show up on the dollar until 1957.</p><p>Nothing more than a political statement. If there was a god, it would be insulted.</p><p></p>

God is an attention whore

[phixion]

<p>constitution wont save me from eternal damnation</p><p>then do this nation a favor and revoke your american citizenship if you have it and move. every right you have and enjoynow in this country are all because of the american consititution. your freedom of religion, amendment number 1. freedom of speech same one. </p><p>so what if my religion says with everychild i ever conceive i should abort my child and give his cells to science? are you going to tell me that your religion is better than mine? that your bible is more real than mine? therefore i should follow&nbsp;YOUR rules of what should and shouldnt be legal because of YOUR beliefs? </p><p>and for the record i notice you havent responded to the new testament and&nbsp;jesus saying to turn the other cheek...... just talk and talk and believe what you believe when it fits your personal motives.. thats all you do... nevermind what was actually&nbsp;said or meant...&nbsp;the truth doesnt matter, the distortion of it thats what will be remembered......&nbsp;</p>

[phixion]

<p>Didn't show up on the dollar until 1957</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>further is completely right but to add to it during the 50s the cold war was its peak and commies were known as the atheists, so in order to combat communism at every avenue they put god on our paper money, ike even had a 'float to god' in one of his inaugaral parades i think it was the second one.....</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>3) <span class="postbody"><strong>it comes down to this which do you love more the constitution or the bible?&nbsp;</strong> </span></p><p>-constitution wont save me from eternal damnation. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So ultimately you think you're above the law...ANY law that's not backed up in some halfassed way by the Bible...because of your faith?&nbsp; Sorry, regular, non-insane life doesn't work that way.&nbsp; That's religious fanatic territory.</p>

[CuzBum]

I would never mock someone because of their faith.

[SinA]

<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>SatCam</strong> wrote:<br />In God We Trust <p>A phrase that was added to our currency because some minister wrote to the Secretary of the Treasury asking for it to be done.</p><p>First appeared on coins in 1864.&nbsp; Didn't show up on the dollar until 1957.</p><p>Nothing more than a political statement.&nbsp; If there was a god, it would be insulted.</p><p>I like &quot;NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM&quot; on the back of a $1, which is &quot;NEW WORLD ORDER&quot;</p>

[Furtherman]

<p>Now, we have answered your questions LordJezo.</p><p>Even given you a bit of an education.</p><p>All facts are available for verification.</p><p>Still think the veto was a good idea?</p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>CuzBum</strong> wrote:<br />I would never mock someone because of their faith. <p>No one has mocked anyone's faith.&nbsp; This isn't about faith.&nbsp; It's about helping mankind.</p><p>And even if your definition of mankind starts at conception, the fact is we now have technology available to help mankind <strong>before conception even starts</strong>.</p><p>Those are the facts.&nbsp; Now.&nbsp; What purpose did yesterday's veto serve?</p><p>Mankinds?&nbsp; </p><p>Or a man's?</p>

[CuzBum]

<p>I was against the veto.</p>

[LordJezo]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Now, we have answered your questions LordJezo.</p><p>Even given you a bit of an education.</p><p>All facts are available for verification.</p><p>Still think the veto was a good idea?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yeah, because everything I am reading is that an embryo is when the sperm hits the egg, joins up, and the splits a time or two.&nbsp; How is that not being fertilized?&nbsp;</p>

[Furtherman]

<p>OK, let me put it this way.&nbsp; Stem cells can be obtained from unfertilized eggs.</p><p>Now... is that killing a life?</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Now, we have answered your questions LordJezo.</p><p>Even given you a bit of an education.</p><p>All facts are available for verification.</p><p>Still think the veto was a good idea?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Yeah, because everything I am reading is that an embryo is when the sperm hits the egg, joins up, and the splits a time or two.&nbsp; How is that not being fertilized?&nbsp;</p><p>I usually make about 2 to 3 million sperm a day in my spare time while looking at porn. Do you want me to save it for you so you can give it a proper burial and say a prayer because so much life was wasted? I care more about living humans and people already here with faces and brains and a heart beat. Not some goo in a dish frozen until it will be destroyed anyway. </p>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><blockquote /><p>I usually make about 2 to 3 million sperm a day in my spare time while looking at porn.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>you count each one, what are you Rain Man?</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I usually make about 2 to 3 million sperm a day in my spare time while looking at porn.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>you count each one, what are you Rain Man?</p><p>Just an estimated guess. You want the tissue I use to clean up so you can count them?</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I usually make about 2 to 3 million sperm a day in my spare time while looking at porn.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>you count each one, what are you Rain Man?</p><p>Just an estimated guess. You want the tissue I use to clean up so you can count them?</p><p>i'll pm you my address...</p>

[joeyballsack]

<strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Knowledged_one</strong> wrote:<br />bush has killed iraqi civilians i must have missed something <p><font size="2">See if you can connect the dots.&nbsp;&nbsp; Bush sends in troops to Iraq.&nbsp; Troops bomb cities in Iraq.&nbsp; Innocent civilians live in the neighborhoods where the bombs fall.&nbsp; Innocent civilians are killed.</font></p><p><a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.net/">http://www.iraqbodycount.net/</a></p><p>Not to take this too far off topic since I think the veto was the wrong thing also, but the above statement is pure garbage. </p><p>US troops are not the people responsible for the killings of the majority of those civilians. There may have been bombs dropping in the early days of the war, but those days are long over.<br /><br />Do you assign any of that blame to the savages that our guys are over there fighting ? In your hatred for all things Bush, are you unable to see there are two sides to this thing ? Is it our side killing civilians with car bombs and chopping peoples heads off ? Executing Iraqi police officers just for doing their job ?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>joeyballsack</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Knowledged_one</strong> wrote:<br />bush has killed iraqi civilians i must have missed something <p><font size="2">See if you can connect the dots.&nbsp;&nbsp; Bush sends in troops to Iraq.&nbsp; Troops bomb cities in Iraq.&nbsp; Innocent civilians live in the neighborhoods where the bombs fall.&nbsp; Innocent civilians are killed.</font></p><p><a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.net/">http://www.iraqbodycount.net/</a></p><p>Not to take this too far off topic since I think the veto was the wrong thing also, but the above statement is pure garbage. </p><p>US troops are not the people responsible for the killings of the majority of those civilians. There may have been bombs dropping in the early days of the war, but those days are long over.<br /><br />Do you assign any of that blame to the savages that our guys are over there fighting ? In your hatred for all things Bush, are you unable to see there are two sides to this thing ? Is it our side killing civilians with car bombs and chopping peoples heads off ? Executing Iraqi police officers just for doing their job ?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I agree with you there are Iraq savages doing terrible things. What I believe he was saying was Bush started this war in Iraq so if it wasnt for Bush then no Iraq's would have died due to our bombs in the begging or anything happening now.</p>

[narc]

<hr color="cococo" align="left"></font><strong>CampoNJ</strong> wrote:<br><strong>joeyballsack</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Knowledged_one</strong> wrote:<br />bush has killed iraqi civilians i must have missed something <p><font size="2">See if you can connect the dots. Bush sends in troops to Iraq. Troops bomb cities in Iraq. Innocent civilians live in the neighborhoods where the bombs fall. Innocent civilians are killed.</font></p><p><a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.net/">http://www.iraqbodycount.net/</a></p><p>Not to take this too far off topic since I think the veto was the wrong thing also, but the above statement is pure garbage. </p><p>US troops are not the people responsible for the killings of the majority of those civilians. There may have been bombs dropping in the early days of the war, but those days are long over.<br /><br />Do you assign any of that blame to the savages that our guys are over there fighting ? In your hatred for all things Bush, are you unable to see there are two sides to this thing ? Is it our side killing civilians with car bombs and chopping peoples heads off ? Executing Iraqi police officers just for doing their job ?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I agree with you there are Iraq savages doing terrible things. What I believe he was saying was Bush started this war in Iraq so if it wasnt for Bush then no Iraq's would have died due to our bombs in the begging or anything happening now.</p><hr color="cococo" align="left"><p></p>

This was going to happen in Iraq sooner or later anyways regardless of Bush though. Once Saddam was gone, there was going to be a bloodbath on a major scale with one side or another - Sunni or Shiite, baathist or otherwise faring really badly. We just sort of accelerated the process.

[joeyballsack]

In the meantime, Saddam was doing a pretty good job of killing those innocent civilians also dont forget. I honestly dont believe the Iraqis are any better or worse off now than they were before. I am also not saying the war is wrong or right, I just dont want the blame for killing thousands of innocents placed on our guys, when that is just not the truth.

[Doomstone]

This was going to happen in Iraq sooner or later anyways regardless of Bush though. Once Saddam was gone, there was going to be a bloodbath on a major scale with one side or another - Sunni or Shiite, baathist or otherwise faring really badly. We just sort of accelerated the process.

Hey, can I kill you and Lord Jizzo and tell the judge you were going to die sooner or later anyway, I was just accelerating the process?

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Doomstone on 7-20-06 @ 10:22 PM</span>

[narc]

Sure! Then I wouldn't have to do what I'm going to have to do in a few days.

[Dirtybird12]

<p>Hey guys enough is enough. We may not like him, but his IS our president. How about a little fucking respect man. U think his job is easy?&nbsp; U think YOU have a rough job? Why dont you guys quit arm chairing and put yourself in his shoes.&nbsp; <br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSEK6yvtFTs" target="_self">Maybe you need to be reminded of what kind of man our fearless leader is.</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6mnWImtRTo&mode=related&search=" target="_self">him is smart</a></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by CircusFreak on 7-20-06 @ 10:57 PM</span>

[FUNKMAN]

<p>they keep mentioning a 3rd of a trillion dollars &quot;so far&quot; on the news... i say BULLSHIT and feel it's alot more. </p><p>due to the Israel/Hezbollah conflict you're not hearing about the 100 people a day being murdered in Iraq and the new Iraq leader is speaking out against Israel and the US. then again why should we care, it's mostly Iraqis dying.&nbsp; </p><p>George Bush is the fucking asshole of assholes because he was born into wealth and has not a fucking clue about what it means to struggle...&nbsp; Warren Buffet admitted on CNN that he hasn't paid income taxes since he was 35 and due to these shelters his kids won't have to. But this fucking idiot gives the wealthiest people the biggest tax break...&nbsp; George Bush admitted to a group of middle class people on national tv that the rich don't pay their full share of taxes due to lawyers and accountants and knowing the loopholes and told them to their face that they are flipping the bill...</p>

[Dirtybird12]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUThuymJFY0&search=president%20george%20w.%20bush" target="_self">sound familiar?</a>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>joeyballsack</strong> wrote:<br />In the meantime, Saddam was doing a pretty good job of killing those innocent civilians also dont forget. I honestly dont believe the Iraqis are any better or worse off now than they were before. I am also not saying the war is wrong or right, I just dont want the blame for killing thousands of innocents placed on our guys, when that is just not the truth. <p>Actually, it is the truth.&nbsp; Yes, the grand total is including casualities due to terrorist attacks, but it's estimated that more than 30,000 of the approx. 40,000&nbsp;Iraqi citizens have been killed by coalition forces.&nbsp; And yes, it's still happening, and yes, at a higher pace than the terrorists.&nbsp; That's not trying to slander anyone...that's just the reality of war.&nbsp; Anyone expecting this to go down with &quot;our boys&quot; somehow magically not killing anyone is simply not being realistic.</p><p><font size="1">I would never mock someone because of their faith.</font></p><p>I mock people's attempts to insert their private faiths onto everyone else.&nbsp; It's wrong.</p>

[narc]

The death rate actually went down over a similar period of time in Iraq because during Saddam's regime he was wasting thousands of Kurds himself. <br><p>
And how do you separate the civilian deaths caused by the coalition in Iraq from the people they just shot because they were shooting back? They don't have uniforms. They're not in any army. They're civilians. They're also insurgents trying to kill our people.

[TheMojoPin]

<p>I would assume civilian deaths would be dead people found shot or blown up (or other types of&nbsp;deaths by weapons of war) who don't have anything on or around them or a history&nbsp;that indicates they were combatants.&nbsp; I guess if you wanted to, you could assume that the insurgents are really just trying to make us look bad and stripped the dead people of their weapons and incriminating evidence, but that's not terribly likely.</p><p>Again, I'm not trying to bash or attack anyone...this is just how it is.&nbsp; War sucks, people die, including a lot of innocent civilians.&nbsp; You can't get around that.&nbsp; When someone chooses to go to war, this is what comes with it.</p>

[PapaBear]

<p>Posted for no particular reason...</p><p>From Doonesbury in April of 2005.</p><p>Recruiter: The thing is, sir, we're in a far less aggressive posture in Iraq now. Our main mission is force protection. </p><p>Doonesbury: What's force protection? </p><p>Recruiter: Basically, it's preventing the bad guys from killing our troops. </p><p>Doonesbury: Let me get this straight. We've got 150,000 troops in Iraq whose main mission is to not get killed? </p><p>Recruiter: Right. </p><p>Doonesbury: Can't they not get killed at home? </p><p>Recruiter: No. We need them to not get killed there so we don't get killed here. </p>

[TheMojoPin]

<strong>narc</strong> wrote:<br />The death rate actually went down over a similar period of time in Iraq because during Saddam's regime he was wasting thousands of Kurds himself. <p>This is a pretty blatant strawman argument, and it's inaccurate.&nbsp; Saddam was not killing the Kurds alone&nbsp;at a comparable pace to the current war.&nbsp; He was an equal opportunity murdered while he reigned.&nbsp; Secondly, it's a terrible argument to insist that the amount of people killed by coalition forces makes this a better situation for the people of Iraq.&nbsp; It's estimated that Saddam's actions and orders resulted in the deaths of between 500,00 and 1 million Iraqis over the 24 years he ruled.&nbsp; That includes the wars involving Kuwait and Iran.&nbsp; The numbers are sharply debated because of the cloak of disinformation under the Hussein regime.&nbsp; Granted, the death toll is still significantly less under coalition force occupation...but hypothetically, if Iraq remains under military control for approx 24 years, under the current rate of death by coalition forces, apprx. 250,000 Iraqi civilians would be killed.&nbsp; A lot less, but that's still a quarter of a million people, and should be totally unacceptable.</p><p>Nobody wanted Saddam to stay in power.&nbsp; But I'm mad we chucked him out without any kind of clear plan to help these people not die in large numbers on a regular basis, most of them because of coalition forces.&nbsp; And once again, I'm not generally&nbsp;condemning the soldiers...this is just what happens in war, and it's what's happening right now.&nbsp; Our government's piss-poor planning in this debacle has screwed over the coalition troops and the Iraqi people, and that's awful.</p>

[LordJezo]

<p>Well this went off topic.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So anyway, why dont we just spend all of our money on adult stem cells?&nbsp; They are just as good, perhaps better, and no one has any issue with using them.&nbsp;</p>

[Jujubees2]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well this went off topic.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So anyway, why dont we just spend all of our money on adult stem cells?&nbsp; They are just as good, perhaps better, and no one has any issue with using them.&nbsp;</p><p>I understand that the pro-Bush crowd doesn't like to let facts get in the way of&nbsp;policy (see Iraq war, global warming and now stem cell research) but you see, scientists, the people who actually&nbsp;KNOW what they're doing, disagree.&nbsp;</p><p><strong><em>If adult stem cell research were really an alternative to embryonic, then why have nearly all but the tiniest handful of the experts who work on stem cells maintained that this is false? </em></strong></p><p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13935219/from/RS.1/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13935219/from/RS.1/</a></p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well this went off topic.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So anyway, why dont we just spend all of our money on adult stem cells?&nbsp; They are just as good, perhaps better, and no one has any issue with using them.&nbsp;</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Because if they do that then the scientists don't get to play God.</font></strong></p>

[Furtherman]

<p>No one plays god.</p><p>We only look to better ourselves.&nbsp; We're lucky bipedal hommonids.&nbsp; Why not help your fellow man?</p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><p>No one plays god.</p><p>We only look to better ourselves.&nbsp; We're lucky bipedal hommonids.&nbsp; Why not help your fellow man?</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Like to prove that wouldn't ya mr. Hooper, get your name in the national geographic.</font></strong></p>

[Jujubees2]

<strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well this went off topic.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So anyway, why dont we just spend all of our money on adult stem cells?&nbsp; They are just as good, perhaps better, and no one has any issue with using them.&nbsp;</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Because if they do that then the scientists don't get to play God.</font></strong></p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: verdana">Yeah, you're absolutely right.&nbsp; We shouldn't have developed vaccinations for measles, polio or any other disease either because if God wanted you to get those diseases then so be it.</span>

[Furtherman]

<strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><p>No one plays god.</p><p>We only look to better ourselves.&nbsp; We're lucky bipedal hommonids.&nbsp; Why not help your fellow man?</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Like to prove that wouldn't ya mr. Hooper, get your name in the national geographic.</font></strong></p><p>Good quote!&nbsp; I like that.</p><p>BUT... truth is, I am familiar with the fact that there are those that will ignore the benefits of stem cell research until it swims up and bites them in the ass.</p><p>When they are in a wheelchair.&nbsp; When their mother can't remember their name.&nbsp; When their father wanders off and is found dead in the river.&nbsp; Ok, maybe that's morbid, but the research will continue, in other civilized countries.&nbsp; And they'll have the results first, they'll have the cures first.&nbsp; </p><p>One day there will be a cure for paralysis.&nbsp; Research from stem cells will be able to grow new nerves and heal bones.&nbsp; </p><p>When said&nbsp;opponent is in a car accident and is paralysis from the neck down.&nbsp;&nbsp;The doctor comes in and says - you know,&nbsp;you can be walking again in a few months thanks to embryotic stem cell research they've been doing in Britian.&nbsp; I have it right here.</p><p>Will you accept it?&nbsp;</p>

[phixion]

<p>Will you accept it?</p><p>probably not. remember these are teh same people who are voting for bush, the same people who vote against what will help them&nbsp;socially and financially. and they vote against it cuz this is the guy who stands against two guys kissing. as lord jezo said he chooses the bible over the constitution because it will save him from hell, this guy will choose the wheelchair for the same reason. i just wish all these fucks would leave and realize that freedom of religion includes MY freedom from THEIR religion</p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p>Will you accept it? <p>&nbsp;</p><p>probably not. remember these are teh same people who are voting for bush, the same people who vote against what will help them&nbsp;socially and financially. and they vote against it cuz this is the guy who stands against two guys kissing. as lord jezo said he chooses the bible over the constitution because it will save him from hell, this guy will choose the wheelchair for the same reason. i just wish all these fucks would leave and realize that freedom of religion includes MY freedom from THEIR religion</p><p>To be fair phixion, I'm asking this to opponents of embryotic stem cell research.&nbsp; </p><p>And his choice would be: to either walk again, or bedridden for the rest of his life.</p>

[phixion]

<p>3-1 odds theyll give that reason though.. </p><p>the only way you will see their true colors is to be actually put into that situation. ie my borther was against abortion his entire life, he thought it was wrong. said not matter what the circumstances he would never abort his child but&nbsp;the day he impregnated a girl he wanted to go running to planned parenthood.</p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well this went off topic.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So anyway, why dont we just spend all of our money on adult stem cells?&nbsp; They are just as good, perhaps better, and no one has any issue with using them.&nbsp;</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Because if they do that then the scientists don't get to play God.</font></strong></p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: verdana">Yeah, you're absolutely right.&nbsp; We shouldn't have developed vaccinations for measles, polio or any other disease either because if God wanted you to get those diseases then so be it.</span> <p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">The cure for none of those diseases involved creating then destroying embryos.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Nice try, but you got nothin'.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="Courier New" size="2">Edit: Assuming someone who questions a specific scientific method is opposed to all scientific research is just childish, stupid, and the antithesis of the spirit of true inquiry and discovery.</font></strong></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by FezPaul on 7-21-06 @ 11:52 AM</span>

[HBox]

<p><span class="postbody"><strong><font size="2" face="courier new,courier,monospace">Nice try, but you got nothin'.</font></strong></span></p><p>Except 3/4 of the country.&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody"><strong><font size="2" face="courier new,courier,monospace" /></strong></span>

[Jujubees2]

<strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well this went off topic.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So anyway, why dont we just spend all of our money on adult stem cells?&nbsp; They are just as good, perhaps better, and no one has any issue with using them.&nbsp;</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Because if they do that then the scientists don't get to play God.</font></strong></p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: verdana">Yeah, you're absolutely right.&nbsp; We shouldn't have developed vaccinations for measles, polio or any other disease either because if God wanted you to get those diseases then so be it.</span> <p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">The cure for none of those diseases involved creating then destroying embryos.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Nice try, but you got nothin'.</font></strong></p><p>No, you said scientists wanted to play God.&nbsp; By finding cures for these diseases they saved people who would have otherwised died.&nbsp; Isn't that playing God?</p><p>And these embroys are being destroyed anyway.&nbsp; Why aren't you speaking out against fertility clinics?&nbsp; Do you have any idea how many embryos are created by fertility clinics?</p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody"><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Nice try, but you got nothin'. </font></strong></span><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">Except 3/4 of the country.</font></font>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody"><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2"><p><strong>At one time 3/4 of the country believed blacks were inferior.</strong></p></font></strong></span>

[FezPaul]

<strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Jujubees2</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>LordJezo</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Well this went off topic.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>So anyway, why dont we just spend all of our money on adult stem cells?&nbsp; They are just as good, perhaps better, and no one has any issue with using them.&nbsp;</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Because if they do that then the scientists don't get to play God.</font></strong></p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black; font-family: verdana">Yeah, you're absolutely right.&nbsp; We shouldn't have developed vaccinations for measles, polio or any other disease either because if God wanted you to get those diseases then so be it.</span> <p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">The cure for none of those diseases involved creating then destroying embryos.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Nice try, but you got nothin'.</font></strong></p><p>No, you said scientists wanted to play God.&nbsp; By finding cures for these diseases they saved people who would have otherwised died.&nbsp; Isn't that playing God?</p><p>And these embroys are being destroyed anyway.&nbsp; Why aren't you speaking out against fertility clinics?&nbsp; Do you have any idea how many embryos are created by fertility clinics?</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">I find fertility clincs just as repulsive. I'm all in favor of science and research. But all methods should be given a fair look, and the pros and cons measured by standards other than mere expediancy.</font></strong></p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><span class="postbody"><strong><font size="2" face="courier new,courier,monospace">Nice try, but you got nothin'. </font></strong></span><p> </p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">Except 3/4 of the country.</font></font> </p><span class="postbody"><strong><font size="2" face="courier new,courier,monospace"><p><strong>At one time 3/4 of the country believed blacks were inferior.</strong></p></font></strong></span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Then here's a suggestion: Go and save one of the embryos, save as many as you can. If it such a moral imperative not to &quot;kill&quot; these things, go save them, because not using them for research isn't going to save them from the garbage can. I mean, this is life and death, right? Right? How can you sit around and do nothing as these thousands of embryos are destroyed? And where is the outrage at in vitro fertilization, which creates all the embryos in the first place with the actual intent of throwing them away.</p><p>I mean, this is a matter of life, right? The most important of all things. If this is so important, how can you sit here and let them die?<br /></p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody"><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Nice try, but you got nothin'. </font></strong></span><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">Except 3/4 of the country.</font></font> </p><span class="postbody"><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2"><p><strong>At one time 3/4 of the country believed blacks were inferior.</strong></p></font></strong></span><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">Then here's a suggestion: Go and save one of the embryos, save as many as you can. If it such a moral imperative not to &quot;kill&quot; these things, go save them, because not using them for research isn't going to save them from the garbage can. I mean, this is life and death, right? Right? How can you sit around and do nothing as these thousands of embryos are destroyed? And where is the outrage at in vitro fertilization, which creates all the embryos in the first place with the actual intent of throwing them away.</font></font><font color="#000080"><font size="2"> <p>I mean, this is a matter of life, right? The most important of all things. If this is so important, <strong>how can you sit here and let them die?</strong><br /></p></font></font><p><font size="3"><strong>Because the Ron &amp; Fez Show is starting!!!!</strong></font></p>

[Furtherman]

<p>How about my question FezPaul - you're paralyzed - do you accept a cure done by embryotic stem cell research?</p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><p>How about my question FezPaul - you're paralyzed - do you accept a cure done by embryotic stem cell research?</p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">No.</font></strong></p>

[Furtherman]

<p>You'll stay in a hospital bed for the rest of your life, with an available cure within a doctor's reach.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I hope you never have to make that decision.</p>

[phixion]

<p>At one time 3/4 of the country believed blacks were inferior</p><p>i see what your getting at and wow..... see its been my experience that once you get out of urban areas they still believe that blacks are inferior. but see ask those people if slavery is right and its not, so once half the country believed that slavery was wrong a war was fought over it. </p><p>correlation the majority of the people got what they wanted, the end to slavery. now the majority of the&nbsp;nation wants stem cell research to be conducted, shouldnt that be enough? right or wrong thats what we as a people want. thats what democracy is, say your against that say your against democracy because you are. you are imposing your religious beliefs on me...so what the difference between you and some islamic fundamentalist?</p><p>my&nbsp;father was recently diagnosed with prostate cancer, in all likelyhood if we had preemptive tests in&nbsp;my grandfathers day he wouldve been found to have prostate cancer, my fathers dr said he would be willing to bet his practice that i will get prostate cancer, so if this research could help me im for it, this is very personal for me, everyone who is for this has made this very personal, its tangible to us, to you&nbsp;its not so your against it........</p>

[HBox]

It's funny how the people opposed to this will moralize in the grandest terms, but when it comes to DOING SOMETHING, and SAVING THESE &quot;LIVES,&quot; well, there are 400,000 thousnad embryos in freezers right now and last year a couple hundred were adopted and &quot;saved.&quot; No, its much easier to bitch up a storm, and then let these things be quietly destroyed. And let some other people deal with their own suffering.<br />

[phixion]

furtherman see i told you this is hypocrisy in action. make no mistake the second he's in tha tbed and he actually realizes he'll never be able to walk, or pee, or play with his children or fuck he'll be begging god for a cure and he'll be up there laughing sayin &quot; see those babies you guys have sitting in a petrie dish with no chance for a&nbsp;real life? thats your cure and you voted against it&nbsp;ha ha ha ha&quot;

[FezPaul]

<p><strong>Phixion</strong> wrote: Everyone who believes in God is a terrorist.</p><p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote: <font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" color="#0000ff" size="2">If you oppose something you should use terrorist tactics to prove it.</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" color="#000000" size="2"><strong>Because we should make broad assumptions about those who disagree with us.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </strong></font></p><p><strong><font face="Courier New" size="2">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/bye.gif" border="0" /></font></strong></p>

[Furtherman]

<p>If anything this is a light shining on a person's character.</p><p>Because the following senario will most likely happen more than not.</p><p>Two paralyzed people are going to be in a hospital room.&nbsp; One will be for embryotic stem cell research, the other against it.</p><p>The doctor will come in - here's the cure!&nbsp; Done with embryotic stem cell research.</p><p>One will accept it, one will not.</p><p>Over the next few months, one will have regenerated nerves and healed bones, one will not.</p><p>One day, one man's family will show up to pick him up and take him home.&nbsp; He'll walk to the car.</p><p>One will not.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The beginning of this senario have an excellent chance of happening.</p><p>The ending.....?</p>

[phixion]

<p><strong>Phixion</strong> wrote: Everyone who believes in God is a terrorist.</p><p>i love the words in my mouth</p><p>what i said was that if you force YOUR&nbsp;religious ideals upon me then you are going against the first amendment and therefore the constitution. and in doing so your no different than a islamic FUNDAMENTALIST not a terrorist genius. my aunt is an islamic fundamentalist everytime we're at her house all she does is give my family shit about eating pork and being christians, but her husbands my mothers brother so we put up with it. she is not a terrorist she is simply imposing her religious views upon me. </p><p>my views are not your views, but my views on this particular issue happens to be insync with the majority of the nation. in the year 2000 i bitched about bush winning for months because he did not have the majority of votes. in 2004 i didnt say a word other than all those red states are fucking retards becuase this time bush had a majority or close enough that i wont complain. why? because thats what the PEOPLE wanted. we live in a democratic republic where the people get what they want. after JFK came out the people clamored for answers the assassination records review board was founded and a number of documents declassified. thats democracy my friend, where the people want something so they get it, thats the world i want to live in. i understand that it wont go my way all the time but its what the people want. </p><p>and for the record i believe in god, i think hes a fuckin asshole, but i believe in him. </p>

[FezPaul]

<strong>phixion</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Phixion</strong> wrote: Everyone who believes in God is a terrorist. <p>&nbsp;</p><p>i love the words in my mouth</p><p>what i said was that if you force YOUR&nbsp;religious ideals upon me then you are going against the first amendment and therefore the constitution. and in doing so your no different than a islamic FUNDAMENTALIST not a terrorist genius. my aunt is an islamic fundamentalist everytime we're at her house all she does is give my family shit about eating pork and being christians, but her husbands my mothers brother so we put up with it. she is not a terrorist she is simply imposing her religious views upon me. </p><p>my views are not your views, but my views on this particular issue happens to be insync with the majority of the nation. in the year 2000 i bitched about bush winning for months because he did not have the majority of votes. in 2004 i didnt say a word other than all those red states are fucking retards becuase this time bush had a majority or close enough that i wont complain. why? because thats what the PEOPLE wanted. we live in a democratic republic where the people get what they want. after JFK came out the people clamored for answers the assassination records review board was founded and a number of documents declassified. thats democracy my friend, where the people want something so they get it, thats the world i want to live in. i understand that it wont go my way all the time but its what the people want. </p><p>and for the record i believe in god, i think hes a fuckin asshole, but i believe in him. </p><p><strong><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="2">Apparently, irony, and hyperbole, are wasted on you.</font></strong></p>

[Furtherman]

<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVvgXvaxcHo&feature=Views&page=2&t=t&f=b" target="_blank">Senator Brownback is a vagina!</a></p><p>Sums up the idioticy of this debate.&nbsp; (and one senator)</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>FezPaul</strong> wrote:<br /><p><strong>Phixion</strong> wrote: Everyone who believes in God is a terrorist.</p><p><strong>HBox</strong> wrote: <font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" color="#0000ff" size="2">If you oppose something you should use terrorist tactics to prove it.</font></p><p><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" color="#000000" size="2"><strong>Because we should make broad assumptions about those who disagree with us.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </strong></font></p><p><strong><font face="Courier New" size="2">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/bye.gif" border="0" /></font></strong></p><p>And we make broad assumptions against the so called terroist that disagree with America. You cant have it both ways, you cant call muslims terrorist because they fight for their beliefs and then not see how Christians arent terrorists too for the shit they force or fight for due to their beliefs.</p><p>I think religion is the root of all evil and when people force their private personal faith into politics and in to others that do not carry those same beliefs, well then thats terror for me.</p>

[CuzBum]

<p><img src="http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/images/hitler_adolf.jpg" border="0" /></p><p>We must cleanse our nation of these Christian terrorists!</p>

[Furtherman]

<p>GREAT NEWS!</p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5209106.stm" target="_blank">EU to fund embryo cell research</a> <font size="2"><strong /></font><strong><p><font size="2"><strong>Ministers from European Union member states have agreed to continue funding research on embryonic stem cells.</strong> </font></p><p><font size="2"><font size="1">It's a relief that some people have vision and hope.</font> </font></p></strong>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Furtherman on 7-25-06 @ 2:03 PM</span>

[bear_s75]

<p>While George W. Bush has done a pitiful job with the nightmare of a presidency he inherited, don't blame the red states just yet, 1.&nbsp; Do you honestly think Kerry would have done a better job even after the election, most all democrats admitted he was the weaker candidate?&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; It was Blue state favorite Bill Clinton who ran the country so poorly when it came to defense, that Iran, North Korea, China were able to strengthen their positions in the world thanks&nbsp; mostly to Bill Clinton turning his back to evil doing.&nbsp; This post is not to defend George Bush, but if you are going to blame him, then you have to look at the man&nbsp; who got the ball rolling.</p>

[FUNKMAN]

<p>fucking Ohio!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>nice callback Funk</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks!</p>