Doe Warren Moon Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame? [Archive]

DJEvelEd

08-06-2006, 08:25 PM

Did Warren Moon belong out there with bloated broadcaster but terrific Raiders coach John Madden, ageless quarterback Troy Aikman, old school tackle Rayfield Wright, GREAT linebacker Harry Carson, and the late Minister of Defense, Reggie White?I Think NOT! 'Ol Wifebeater aint even as good as Marino and neither have a Superbowl ring.Warren ruined a GREAT class. Douche.... Most of his yards were garbage time... [Edit] DOE! (I stink)
This message was edited by DJEvelEd on 8-7-06 @ 12:29 AM

FUNKMAN

08-06-2006, 08:52 PM

i'm afraid to say yes...    so i just voted yesedit: i didn't care for all the "gotta represent" talk... he made more money than the majority of the rest of the population. just do your fucking job and shaddap...

This message was edited by FUNKMAN on 8-7-06 @ 12:54 AM

PapaBear

08-06-2006, 08:55 PM

I refused to acknowledge the existance of the Hall until Art Monk makes it in.And to those who will argue about if Monk should be in... I don't care.

HeyGuy

08-06-2006, 09:13 PM

Of course he desreves to be in. I'm a Dolphin/Marino fan and I still feel Moon should be in the hall. He has had a remarkable NFL and Canadian career, more in the NFL. There was a time when people thought he was a top 5 in the NFL. His #'s are enough to get in. Not every QB wins a Super Bowl. If you remember the NFC won so many superbowls in a row so it was tough for Moon (Hou) Marino (MIA) Kelly (BUF, yes I know he went 4 times but the only time they were the better team and lost was against NYG) Even  Elway couldnt win a SB until he had a running back (Davis) There are a lot of QB's that #'s alone should get them in!

HeyGuy

08-06-2006, 09:14 PM

PapaBear wrote: I refused to acknowledge the existance of the Hall until Art Monk makes it in.And to those who will argue about if Monk should be in... I don't care.No excuses, Monk should be in already. He was a beast for years and deserves to get in. He has better #'s then a lot of wr in the hall. I dont understand how he hasnt gotten the votes yet?

Enabler

08-07-2006, 05:40 AM

PapaBear wrote: I refused to acknowledge the existance of the Hall until Art Monk makes it in.And to those who will argue about if Monk should be in... I don't care.AMEN brother! Maybe Monk should pout and ask that his name be taken out of consideration like a certain Giants linebacker did. Monk was a legend who retired with NFL records for most career receptions, single season receptions and consecutive games with a catch. Moon belongs too. PUT HIM IN!!!!!!  <img src="http://www.brooksinternational.com/images/2artmonk.JPG" border="0" />

A.J.

08-07-2006, 05:47 AM

I loathe the Redskins but Art Monk belongs.  Maybe he'll get in next year with teammate Darrell Green.As for Moon?  He belongs.

EliSnow

08-07-2006, 05:50 AM

Belongs.  A Super Bowl ring doesn't mean that a player wasn't great or deserving of Hall of Fame status.  Otherwise, my childhood hero Fran Tarkington would never have made it to the Hall of Fame.

absinthe

08-07-2006, 06:45 AM

I voted yes, I like to think of a hall of famer as someone who was feared and Houston's offense was something special in his tenure.  I think a hall of famer can make their case in the postseason, but would be hard pressed to lose it. 

A.J.

08-07-2006, 07:16 AM

absinthe wrote: Houston's offense was something special in his tenure.  Their defense sure as hell wasn't.<img height="384" src="http://www.davebyers.net/bills02.jpg" width="466" border="0" />

DJEvelEd

08-07-2006, 08:51 AM

Moon threw 26 interceptions in 1986.He had his best years in 90, 91 and still couldn't even get to the big dance. He even had 18 fumbles in 1990.291 career Touchdowns......394 career turnovers. OH YEAH THOSE ARE HALL OF FAME NUMBERS!!!  He was always a play late and a touchdown short.<img height="384" src="http://www.davebyers.net/bills02.jpg" width="466" border="0" />Moon threw the interception that lost this game!!!       

This message was edited by DJEvelEd on 8-7-06 @ 1:03 PM

FUNKMAN

08-07-2006, 09:07 AM

EliSnow wrote: Belongs.  A Super Bowl ring doesn't mean that a player wasn't great or deserving of Hall of Fame status.  Otherwise, my childhood hero Fran Tarkington would never have made it to the Hall of Fame.EXACTLY!and where's my man Chuck Foreman... he should get in just for style points and that classic spin move...<img src="http://www.purpledawgs.com/cf.jpg" border="0" />

narc

08-07-2006, 09:12 AM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">A.J. wrote: absinthe wrote: Houston's offense was something special in his tenure. Their defense sure as hell wasn't.<img height="384" src="http://www.davebyers.net/bills02.jpg" width="466" border="0" /><hr color="cococo" align="left">

Best....game....ever!!!!! Houston's defense was good, but only in the Astrodome - "The House of Pain." And Moon had great support in Lorenzo White and Heywood Jeffires.

Don Stugots

08-07-2006, 12:46 PM

the reverned?

blakjeezis

08-07-2006, 01:27 PM

Art "the" Monk - Yes, unquestionably.Warren "the" Moon - No, unquestionably.

HeyGuy

08-07-2006, 01:28 PM

DJEvelEd wrote: Moon threw 26 interceptions in 1986.He had his best years in 90, 91 and still couldn't even get to the big dance. He even had 18 fumbles in 1990.291 career Touchdowns......394 career turnovers. OH YEAH THOSE ARE HALL OF FAME NUMBERS!!!  He was always a play late and a touchdown short.<img height="384" src="http://www.davebyers.net/bills02.jpg" width="466" border="0" />Moon threw the interception that lost this game!!!       This message was edited by DJEvelEd on 8-7-06 @ 1:03 PM Seems you hate for Moon is not spreading. The majority of people agree he  deserves to be in the hall, sorry!

DJEvelEd

08-07-2006, 04:37 PM

It's not my fault the kids here are too young to remember how bad he really was. He threw the interception that lost that game! to FRANK FUCKIN REICH no less! HA! 394 turnovers??? C'mon! Moon has no ring either, no street cred... You kids better study your football history and dont get hung up on a name. The Moons and Marinos of this world are examples of second best. In Moons case it's even lower. Marino came closer than Moon did.I bet Warren calls his wife Frank when he beats her. Same with Dan Reeves. He never won shit but people think he's a football guru. At least he got to the dance.Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Dilfer and Johnson in the Hall just because they led their team to victory. They never dominated when they won their rings. People argue who was the best team. Until someone goes undefeated for the season and wins the Superbowl, the Dolphins will be the best as much as I hate them....        

This message was edited by DJEvelEd on 8-7-06 @ 8:45 PM

spoon

08-07-2006, 05:14 PM

I agree Moon is on the line, hence the reason this convo is even possible.  Yet by your standards my God would never have gotten in (Dan Fouts), and that's just not acceptable!!  Seriously, the world as we know it would cease to exist if Fouts wasn't in the hall.  Just imagine if the Chargers ever had a fucking defense.<img src="http://www.chargertom.com/BloodyFouts.jpg" border="0" /> GO BOLTZ!

FUNKMAN

08-07-2006, 05:19 PM

spoon wrote: I agree Moon is on the line, hence the reason this convo is even possible.  Yet by your standards my God would never have gotten in (Dan Fouts), and that's just not acceptable!!  Seriously, the world as we know it would cease to exist if Fouts wasn't in the hall.  Just imagine if the Chargers ever had a fucking defense.<img src="http://www.chargertom.com/BloodyFouts.jpg" border="0" /> GO BOLTZ!and don't forget thee man Mr Chuck Muncie - fun to watch strong straight up runner<img height="233" src="http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiX25ddE7tIAqNGjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN 0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12im24k83/EXP=1155086198/**http%3a//www.lawmenfootball.org/images/muncie_chargers_cover.jpg" width="180" border="0" />

HeyGuy

08-07-2006, 07:42 PM

DJEvelEd wrote: It's not my fault the kids here are too young to remember how bad he really was. He threw the interception that lost that game! to FRANK FUCKIN REICH no less! HA! 394 turnovers??? C'mon! Moon has no ring either, no street cred... You kids better study your football history and dont get hung up on a name. The Moons and Marinos of this world are examples of second best. In Moons case it's even lower. Marino came closer than Moon did.I bet Warren calls his wife Frank when he beats her. Same with Dan Reeves. He never won shit but people think he's a football guru. At least he got to the dance.Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Dilfer and Johnson in the Hall just because they led their team to victory. They never dominated when they won their rings. People argue who was the best team. Until someone goes undefeated for the season and wins the Superbowl, the Dolphins will be the best as much as I hate them....        This message was edited by DJEvelEd on 8-7-06 @ 8:45 PM See I'm a huge miami fan. I have been since the 1982 super bowl. I love the marino haters that talk so much shit because he didnt win a super bowl. He never had a running back nor a defense. He finally had a defense the last 2 or 3 years he played. Your only as good as the guys around you. I do remember moon I'm 33 and he was a stud. Plus it is the football hall of fame so his pro career stats are sick. There are a lot of QB's that are in the hall that would have been shit if it wasnt for the talent around them. Winning a super bowl doesnt make you great Aikman doesnt have the #'s to be in the hall he has the rings. He also had 1 of the best wr's of the 90's 1 of the best rb's in the history of the nfl. The best offensive line and a top defense every year. Not to mention a great head coach, te, fb. I could mention so many more that have rings that shouldnt.

spoon

08-07-2006, 09:53 PM

Come on camps, he was a great general and made those players even better.  Aikman deserves it easily.  And I'm no Marino hater, and he too definitely deserves to be there (much more than Moon), but he did have some RBs on his team over the years.  He just refused to hand the fucking thing off and always wanted to throw.  He was a selfish, egotistical player and that's why I'm not a fan either.  Sure he had more talent than that of Montana, Moon and Aikman combined.  If only he had enough sense to ignore his own stats and adapt on how to win big fucking games.  I remember that classic playoff game against the Chargers where he could have run out the fucking clock and beat my boltz.  Instead he kept on the attack and the Chargers got the ball back and won the fucking game.  I really think the way he started his career with sooo much success and getting to the SB in his first year hurt his outlook on the game.  It also didn't help that he was allowed to call his own plays and pretty much run the offense with his selfish mindset.  Shula really didn't control him at all, but what the hell did he care with all the success in the past.  He reminds me a ton of Peyton Manning right now.  And I do hate all the fucking mush-mouthed Manning clan. 

This message was edited by spoon on 8-8-06 @ 1:58 AM

HeyGuy

08-07-2006, 11:50 PM

spoon wrote: Come on camps, he was a great general and made those players even better.  Aikman deserves it easily.  And I'm no Marino hater, and he too definitely deserves to be there (much more than Moon), but he did have some RBs on his team over the years.  He just refused to hand the fucking thing off and always wanted to throw.  He was a selfish, egotistical player and that's why I'm not a fan either.  Sure he had more talent than that of Montana, Moon and Aikman combined.  If only he had enough sense to ignore his own stats and adapt on how to win big fucking games.  I remember that classic playoff game against the Chargers where he could have run out the fucking clock and beat my boltz.  Instead he kept on the attack and the Chargers got the ball back and won the fucking game.  I really think the way he started his career with sooo much success and getting to the SB in his first year hurt his outlook on the game.  It also didn't help that he was allowed to call his own plays and pretty much run the offense with his selfish mindset.  Shula really didn't control him at all, but what the hell did he care with all the success in the past.  He reminds me a ton of Peyton Manning right now.  And I do hate all the fucking mush-mouthed Manning clan.  This message was edited by spoon on 8-8-06 @ 1:58 AM I  agree with you that his ego and wanting to pass may have hurt him but I cant think of 1 rb that he had from 83-95 who was even worth talking about. Who Karrim abdul jabar, tony nathan,  He didnt go to the SB his first year it was his 2nd(not to knit pick) Plus they had one of the worst defensive teams while he was there. Im just glad to see someone else say that he was better and more talented then montana, moon and aikman. So many people think montana was the best QB. Well he wasnt he was a very good QB on an incredible team with def, oline, rb's and a great coach. A lot of people have said if Phil Sim,s was drafted by SF they would have won just as many super bowls and if montana was drafted by the giants he would have been out of football in 3 years. Meaning that sims got hit so hard and had no protection for the 1st 3 years of his career that montana would have died because he couldnt take a hit. I think overall Elway is the best qb. He has the passing #'s, he has the wins, he went to the sb 5 or 6 times with 2 wins (I know he didnt win until he got davis) and he was a very good running qb. Then I go Marino. I hate saying that!

narc

08-08-2006, 12:22 AM

Don't forget about Sammie Smith, and I'm not sure if Lawrence Phillips was there during the Marino days. 
I hate the fucking Dolphins so much.

Duke

08-08-2006, 12:24 AM

FUNKMAN wrote: spoon wrote: I agree Moon is on the line, hence the reason this convo is even possible. Yet by your standards my God would never have gotten in (Dan Fouts), and that's just not acceptable!! Seriously, the world as we know it would cease to exist if Fouts wasn't in the hall. Just imagine if the Chargers ever had a fucking defense.<img border="0" src="http://www.chargertom.com/BloodyFouts.jpg" /> GO BOLTZ!and don't forget thee man Mr Chuck Muncie - fun to watch strong straight up runner<img width="180" height="233" border="0" src="http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiX25ddE7tIAqNGjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN 0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12im24k83/EXP=1155086198/**http%3a//www.lawmenfootball.org/images/muncie_chargers_cover.jpg" />    chuck was also good at doing straight up lines too....  fouts was amazing tho...great qb

Fezticle98

08-08-2006, 02:36 AM

DJEvelEd wrote: Moon threw 26 interceptions in 1986.He had his best years in 90, 91 and still couldn't even get to the big dance. He even had 18 fumbles in 1990.291 career Touchdowns......394 career turnovers. OH YEAH THOSE ARE HALL OF FAME NUMBERS!!! Not true. He had 338 turnovers. 233 INTs + 105 Fumbles LOST. If you are going to count fumbles, then you should count his 22 rushing td's as well. So, 313 TDs vs. 338 turnovers. Compare that to Unitas, Namath, Elway and Aikman. By your standard, none of them would make it.I'd like to add my voice to the chorus calling for Monk's induction. It's a no-brainer.  

This message was edited by fezticle98 on 8-8-06 @ 6:45 AM

DJEvelEd

08-08-2006, 11:48 AM

fezticle98 wrote: DJEvelEd wrote: Moon threw 26 interceptions in 1986.He had his best years in 90, 91 and still couldn't even get to the big dance. He even had 18 fumbles in 1990.291 career Touchdowns......394 career turnovers. OH YEAH THOSE ARE HALL OF FAME NUMBERS!!! Not true. He had 338 turnovers. 233 INTs + 105 Fumbles LOST. If you are going to count fumbles, then you should count his 22 rushing td's as well. So, 313 TDs vs. 338 turnovers. Compare that to Unitas, Namath, Elway and Aikman. By your standard, none of them would make it.You can't compare Moon to Unitas, Namath, Elway and Aikman because instead of throwing 4th quarter INTs (like Moon) they were throwing 4th quarter Touchdowns and winning big games. Moons yardage & TDs were all garbage time. People like Thurman Munson had average stats but got the clutch hits when they counted. I'll take winning over stats anyday.Moon never got it done when he needed to. He crumbled like that pussy Marino. Some people run up stats, some people win games.It's like Moon & Marino were afraid of winning. They both have great stats but instead of running up yardage on bad teams, HOW ABOUT WINNING SOME PLAYOFF GAMES AND GETTING TO THE BIG DANCE! I have more respect for Jim Kelly & Fran Tarkington for at least getting to The Big Dance quite a few times.

ChimneyFish

08-08-2006, 12:17 PM

The thing is, sometimes players don't just go in because of their stats, but also because they were "icons" during that period. Whether you want to admit it or not, Moon was one of the icons of those years.I know it's from wikipedia, but it says the Oilers were in the playoffs from 87-93. That's consistency. (I knew they were in a lot, but not that many years in a row)        And I think Monk should, and will, get in.And what about Byron Evans????<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/happy.gif" border="0" />

This message was edited by ChimneyFish on 8-8-06 @ 4:18 PM

HeyGuy

08-08-2006, 02:57 PM

DJEvelEd wrote: fezticle98 wrote: DJEvelEd wrote: Moon threw 26 interceptions in 1986.He had his best years in 90, 91 and still couldn't even get to the big dance. He even had 18 fumbles in 1990.291 career Touchdowns......394 career turnovers. OH YEAH THOSE ARE HALL OF FAME NUMBERS!!! Not true. He had 338 turnovers. 233 INTs + 105 Fumbles LOST. If you are going to count fumbles, then you should count his 22 rushing td's as well. So, 313 TDs vs. 338 turnovers. Compare that to Unitas, Namath, Elway and Aikman. By your standard, none of them would make it.You can't compare Moon to Unitas, Namath, Elway and Aikman because instead of throwing 4th quarter INTs (like Moon) they were throwing 4th quarter Touchdowns and winning big games. Moons yardage & TDs were all garbage time. People like Thurman Munson had average stats but got the clutch hits when they counted. I'll take winning over stats anyday.Moon never got it done when he needed to. He crumbled like that pussy Marino. Some people run up stats, some people win games.It's like Moon & Marino were afraid of winning. They both have great stats but instead of running up yardage on bad teams, HOW ABOUT WINNING SOME PLAYOFF GAMES AND GETTING TO THE BIG DANCE! I have more respect for Jim Kelly & Fran Tarkington for at least getting to The Big Dance quite a few times.Am I worng or isnt Marino in the top5 in all time wins? Isnt he also in the top 5 in comeback wins?DJ please tell me who your favorite team is and favorite QB? I have never seen someone have such hate for Marino and would bet it has to do with your favs.

CYYYFYYY

08-08-2006, 03:02 PM

Out of QBs I watched that are not in the Hall that I think are better than MOON. Jim KellySimmsCunningham I know I will get grief for Cunnigham.  I say as long as those 3 are not in the hall then moon should not.   Moon did not only never make it to a Super Bowl, he never made it to a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!  I can't put a QB in the HALL who never made it to a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME unless all his teams were crap.  This was not the case for Moon

Enabler

08-08-2006, 03:11 PM

CYYYFYYY wrote: Out of QBs I watched that are not in the Hall that I think are better than MOON. Jim KellySimmsCunningham I know I will get grief for Cunnigham.  I say as long as those 3 are not in the hall then moon should not.   Moon did not only never make it to a Super Bowl, he never made it to a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!  I can't put a QB in the HALL who never made it to a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME unless all his teams were crap.  This was not the case for MoonJim Kelly is obviously in...<img src="http://www.kepplerspeakers.com/speakers/pics/kelly-j.jpg" border="0" />

ThisIsCharlie

08-08-2006, 03:23 PM

I don't think Moon gets in because he was great in Canada against obviously inferior opponents/defenses.  In the NFL he was above avergae.  Not great, but very good.  I just don't think that is enough to get in.  If we are going to take the CFL seriously then does Flutie get in?  He rocked in the CFL, but in the NFL he was OK.I agree that Marino is great and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame but it bothers me when fans say he did all this with no running back or defense and would have won more if he did.  He had none of that because he was very influential on that team's decisions and always wanted receivers or linemen.  I don't blame him but do you seriously think the Dolphins were actually unable to get a decenet running back all those years?  Doesn't take away from how awesome he was but please - let's stop with the "if only he cold have had a RB."  He played for what - 15 years?  Not a single decent RB was ever available?  Nonsense.

HeyGuy

08-08-2006, 04:05 PM

ThisIsCharlie wrote: I don't think Moon gets in because he was great in Canada against obviously inferior opponents/defenses.  In the NFL he was above avergae.  Not great, but very good.  I just don't think that is enough to get in.  If we are going to take the CFL seriously then does Flutie get in?  He rocked in the CFL, but in the NFL he was OK.I agree that Marino is great and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame but it bothers me when fans say he did all this with no running back or defense and would have won more if he did.  He had none of that because he was very influential on that team's decisions and always wanted receivers or linemen.  I don't blame him but do you seriously think the Dolphins were actually unable to get a decenet running back all those years?  Doesn't take away from how awesome he was but please - let's stop with the "if only he cold have had a RB."  He played for what - 15 years?  Not a single decent RB was ever available?  Nonsense.Many times he said he wished he a rb. Ithink it was hard for them to get a rb because free agency wasnt as big as it was in the late 90's and today. Great or even very good RB's didnt change teams often. And to be honest most would go to miami because they thought with marino at qb they would be a pass first offense. So miami tried to do it with the draft. The best rb they drafted during marinos career was karim abdul jabar. He had 1 good year and looked like the amswer but just fell off the map. By the time Miami had a def and a decent rb it was too late. I wish he would have won a SB but he didnt. That being said you can not deny his stats. He had the quickest release ever, lowest sacked QB ever, most yards and TD ever, great completion %. You also need to understand duper and clayton were very small receivers with avg speed. They were not highly touted wr out of college. Marino made them into the great wr's they became because his accuracy. I know my love for the Miami Dolphins is bias

ChimneyFish

08-09-2006, 06:00 AM

CampoNJ wrote:  You also need to understand duper and clayton were very small receivers with avg speed. They were not highly touted wr out of college.  But they were great in Super Techmo Bowl.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/tongue.gif" border="0" />

high fly

08-09-2006, 04:26 PM

Poll Topic: Doe Warren MDoe Warren Moon Deserve To Be In The Hall of Fame? I don't think so, but they do seem to be letting just anyone in there these days.Moon was very good for several  years, but not what I'd call a superstar.Shoulda been Art Monk. MonkIn The Hall of Fame?