Help out your old pals Hottub and El Mudo

[El Mudo]

Firstly, I&rsquo;d like to point out I got approval to post this from Hottub So here&rsquo;s the thing. In the chat room the other day, the issue of battlefield preservation came up between me and Hottub. According to statistics from the Civil War Preservation Trust (Civilwar.org) &ldquo;Nearly 20 percent of America's Civil War battlefields have already been destroyed--denied forever to future generations. Of those that remain, only 15 percent are protected by the Federal government&rdquo; Even Gettysburg itself is under siege. There are currently plans to build a Casino near the site of the East Cavalry battlefield, which would be a terrible thing, but its up for public referendum in Adams County, PA in November, where I hope it will be defeated. Here are some links to see for yourself: <a href="http://www.nocasinogettysburg.com/" target="blank">http://www.nocasinogettysburg.com/</a> <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4718081" target="blank">An NPR Article on the Gettysburg Situation</a> The overriding goal here is to have places like Gettysburg and Antietam not turn into what has happened to the Franklin battlefield site in Franklin, Tennessee. Franklin was a pretty major battle in November 1864 that basically killed the CS Army of Tennessee (it was finished off a month later in Nashville). From Wikipedia: More men of the Confederate Army of Tennessee were killed in five hours at Franklin than in two days at the Battle of Shiloh. The Confederates suffered 6,252 casualties, including 1,750 killed and 3,800 wounded. Their military leadership in the West was decimated, including the loss of such skilled generals as Patrick Cleburne. Fifteen Confederate generals were casualties (6 killed, the rest wounded and/or captured), and 65 field grade officers were lost. Union casualties were 189 killed, 1,033 wounded, 1,104 missing. Here are some of the current shots of the Franklin battlefield: <img src="http://www.civilwaralbum.com/misc/2003/franklin_risher1.jpg" border="0" /> <img src="http://www.civilwaralbum.com/misc/2003/franklin_risher2.jpg" border="0" /> This is the spot where General Patrick Cleburne&rsquo;s body was found and some of the most furious fighting took place. The City of Franklin has since torn the Pizza Hut down. I&rsquo;m not going to sit here and insult your intelligence by telling you of the significance of the sacrifices made by the soldiers in the Civil War. We all know of the efforts put together by those brave men, and what they gave up in terms of family, friends, and lives, so we could have the country we have today. President Lincoln put it best in the Gettysburg Address when he said &ldquo;But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. <strong>The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here </strong>In other words, these men have EARNED the right to be remembered. We cannot as a society let the places where they gave so much be turned into condos, or restaurants, or apartments. So basically, if you have a couple extra bucks this month and you&rsquo;re looking for a good charity, why not send it to one of the battlefield preservation societies? I highly recommend the Civil War Preservation Trust (Civilwar.org), which is one of the better and more organized groups out there. Again, its not something we&rsquo;re going to get on you for if you don&rsquo;t do, but any little bit you could send would help. Also, donating your time in terms of writing to your congressman helps too. Ask them to support initiatives that support smarter ways to grow communities. Many of these battlefields are threatened by suburban sprawl that drops developments willy-nilly into the middle of nowhere with no consequence in terms of what/who they affect. Finally, the most important thing is to VISIT these places. Take a stroll throu

[The Blowhard]

Good job guys. If 500 million can be spent on a 911 memorial, I don't see why we can't save our historic Civil War sites.

[Hottub]

<p>Mudo, Outstanding job!</p><p>A little bit of chat room banter, I threw out an idea, and you hit a home-run! Thank you, Sir.</p><p>Just for the record, this kid is deeper into the cause than I could ever hope to be! I am passionate, Mudo lives it!</p><p>That being said, we are really just trying to raise awareness, and&nbsp;stop the eradication of U.S. history. Even if you are not a student of the conflict, the Hallowed Ground must remain. For us, or children, and our children's children.</p><p><a href="http://www.civilwar.org/news/topten2006/" target="_blank">Here is a link to a worthwhile Organization</a>. The CWPT.&nbsp;If nothing else, just read it. Raise your awareness. And another link to their <a href="http://www.civilwar.org/news/topten2006/2006report.pdf" target="_blank">2006 State of the Battlefields. (pdf)</a></p><p>Thank you all for you time.</p><p>Jon</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Hottub on 8-11-06 @ 7:20 PM</span>

[cougarjake13]

<p>i dont mean to sound anti american but it was a war that happened almost 150 years ago and whether or not the site is still intact or theres a memorial we wont forget about it</p><p>life goes on , cities get built up and progress is made, if you think about it anywhere in the usa or the world for that matter&nbsp;can be considered important historically and we wont build there and we'll become stagnant as a civilization</p><p>i also feel this way when we humans decide that we should save endangered species ... many species have lived and died out before us, during us and will after us, why should we interfere with nature's plan ??</p>

[Thebazile78]

<p>My best friend from high school used to live near the Manassas/Bull Run Battlefield historic site; you had to drive through the road that now runs through the site, with the barricades on either side of you. . . at night, it's phenomenal and if it's foggy, you can almost feel the soldiers fighting there. </p><p>I saw what happened to sites in TN on TV. My aunt works in Fredericksburg and drives past the battlefield memorial from the battle of Fredericksburg/Marye's Heights and the Confederate Cemetery every day. She works for the historical society that's currently restoring Kenmore Plantation, the home of George Washington's sister.<br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I'm saddened by what's on the table for Gettysburg. It had better not happen before I get to see it! </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>These are still awe-inspiring sites, and deeply moving reminders of the ravages of war, no matter if it was 150 years ago or closer to your own memory. At some sites, especially sites that HAVE been preserved, you can experience a small part of whatever happened there, which only adds to the emotional connection some folks have to any given battlefield, historic home or even a cemetery. (I happen to adore old cemeteries because they're such contemplative places, but most of my family thinks this is macabre.)</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>If you really want to have some impact, well, Arlington National Cemetery was started on the very lands of General
Robert E. Lee after one of the bloody battles of the Civil War. We, as a nation, have preserved the final resting place of these war-dead since the Civil War; what makes any other site so drastically different? The lack of celebrity names? No changing-of-the-guard? These folks all died in service to their country. OUR country. That those who came before us fought to create, preserve and defend against tyranny, ourselves and outside forces. <br /> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I agree with the sentiments, even if my purse strings are tied right now.<br /></p>

[El Mudo]

i dont mean to sound anti american but it was a war that happened almost 150 years ago and whether or not the site is still intact or theres a memorial we wont forget about it

life goes on , cities get built up and progress is made, if you think about it anywhere in the usa or the world for that matter can be considered important historically and we wont build there and we'll become stagnant as a civilization

i also feel this way when we humans decide that we should save endangered species ... many species have lived and died out before us, during us and will after us, why should we interfere with nature's plan ??




I would counter that by saying these places are hallowed ground...consecrated by the men who shed their blood there.

Not forgetting is one thing, I don't really believe we will forget the events of the war, even if it was 150 years ago.

I don't mean to sound overly sentimental, but these places are special. I can't describe the feeling I get when I walk through places like Manassas and the Wilderness, but its there. On a more personal note for me, I had several ancestors in the conflict, and I would like to take my children and grandchildren there. Its a thing that gets passed down from father to son. My dad took me to the battlefields all the time when I was a little boy, and its made our bond as a father and son even more stronger.

And, on another note, these places also mean money for the communities they are located in. Tourists bring dollars, which really helps a lot of these rural counties that don't have a lot of other sources of income (Washington County, Maryland is already pretty poor, and it'd be poorer without tourist dollars flowing into Antietam...thats also why Franklin tore down that Pizza Hut...they began to recognize belatedly they could market the history around them)

[HeyGuy]

<strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>i dont mean to sound anti american but it was a war that happened almost 150 years ago and whether or not the site is still intact or theres a memorial we wont forget about it</p><p>life goes on , cities get built up and progress is made, if you think about it anywhere in the usa or the world for that matter&nbsp;can be considered important historically and we wont build there and we'll become stagnant as a civilization</p><p>i also feel this way when we humans decide that we should save endangered species ... many species have lived and died out before us, during us and will after us, why should we interfere with nature's plan ??</p><p>I was just about to write the same thing. </p>

[Gvac]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><font><font><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/forum/71/topic/51729">Help out your old pals Hottub and El Mudo</a></font></font><p>&nbsp;</p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Those guys are fags!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img border="0" src="http://www.fu-manchu.com/morbidaj/spicolititle-new.jpg" />&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[tele7]

<strong>Gvac</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><font size="+0"><font size="+0"><a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/forum/71/topic/51729">Help out your old pals Hottub and El Mudo</a></font></font> <p>&nbsp;</p><hr width="100%" size="2" /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Those guys are fags!</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="http://www.fu-manchu.com/morbidaj/spicolititle-new.jpg" border="0" />&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>It's cool...they showed interest.</p>

[PapaBear]

<p>I'm all for preserving the history, myself. El Mudo is probably aware of the Civil War history where I live in Winchester, VA. This has been a huge debate around here for years, but since my county has been growing by leaps and bounds because of the migration of people from DC and Northern Va (and the huge amounts of cash being waved around), history is losing out. What really bugs me is... they build hundreds of poorly made 500K+ houses on the battlefields, then try to make up for it by giving all the new streets Civil War influenced names.</p><p>Now they're going to wipe out even more history to build a beltway. A beltway around a city of 30k people? How crazy is that?</p>

[HeyGuy]

<strong>PapaBear</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I'm all for preserving the history, myself. El Mudo is probably aware of the Civil War history where I live in Winchester, VA. This has been a huge debate around here for years, but since my county has been growing by leaps and bounds because of the migration of people from DC and Northern Va (and the huge amounts of cash being waved around), history is losing out. What really bugs me is... they build hundreds of poorly made 500K+ houses on the battlefields, then try to make up for it by giving all the new streets Civil War influenced names.</p><p>Now they're going to wipe out even more history to build a beltway. A beltway around a city of 30k people? How crazy is that?</p><p>you might need that beltway. I have driven down to DC many times and I have never been in more traffic then down by DC so if your getting a lot of DC'ers (word?) then traffic mught become a disaster near you, maybe the beltway will help out!</p>

[A.J.]

<p>What's important to keep in mind is that around Virginia and Maryland, Civil War and Revolutionary War sites are often in close proximity.&nbsp; This makes preservation of these sites&nbsp;even more important.</p><p>Give a hoot -- save a battlefield.</p>

[Sheeplovr]

<p>he's a mod for a week and already abusing his power</p><p>im goign ot take a dump on a battel feild jsut because of this post take that</p><p>especially a&nbsp; unimportant that would serve no purpose to be saved at all besides being a nice place to picnic<br />
</p>

[walking joint]

not sure why my post isn't showing up right...so nevermind.

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by walking joint on 8-14-06 @ 8:21 AM</span>