"We Were Treated Like Animals" ? [Archive]

joeyballsack

08-24-2006, 12:15 PM

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-prof0824,0,4565671.story?coll=ny-top-headlinesMuslim, Arab and South Asian passengers are being profiled by Homeland Security officers at Kennedy Airport, civil liberties groups said Wednesday, citing a New Jersey family that was detained and interrogated after a flight from Dubai last week.The family, a mother and her 20-year-old twin daughters from Montclair, N.J., said they were plucked from the baggage area, held six hours without food or water by Customs and Border Protection agents and questioned about their views of Iraq. Arwa Ibrahim, who along with her sister is enrolled at Rutgers University, said they were born in Iraq and moved to the United States at age 5. She said the experience was disturbing because they were forced to sit on the floor without food or water and were treated rudely when they asked questions of the officers."It was a really humiliating experience -- humiliating because we were treated like animals," she said. "We were treated really horribly by the officers that were there, we were yelled at, we were told to get back, threatened with arrest and threatened to have to stay longer if we complained." So..at what point does something turn from being inconvienenced to being treated like an animal ? Seeing as this came right on the heels of the bombing plot that was uncovered in London, which involoved the use of liquid, was this really such outrageous behaviour by the airport officials ?

joeyballsack

08-24-2006, 12:17 PM

Shit. I should be treated like an animal for my butchering of HTML in this post.

HBox

08-24-2006, 12:29 PM

joeyballsack wrote: <a href="http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/am-prof0824,0,4565671.story?coll=ny-top-headlines"></a> Muslim, Arab and South Asian passengers are being profiled by Homeland Security officers at Kennedy Airport, civil liberties groups said Wednesday, citing a New Jersey family that was detained and interrogated after a flight from Dubai last week. The family, a mother and her 20-year-old twin daughters from Montclair, N.J., said they were plucked from the baggage area, held six hours without food or water by Customs and Border Protection agents and questioned about their views of Iraq.  Arwa Ibrahim, who along with her sister is enrolled at Rutgers University, said they were born in Iraq and moved to the United States at age 5. She said the experience was disturbing because they were forced to sit on the floor without food or water and were treated rudely when they asked questions of the officers. "It was a really humiliating experience -- humiliating because we were treated like animals," she said. "We were treated really horribly by the officers that were there, we were yelled at, we were told to get back, threatened with arrest and threatened to have to stay longer if we complained."  So..at what point does something turn from being inconvienenced to being treated like an animal ? Seeing as this came right on the heels of the bombing plot that was uncovered in London, which involoved the use of liquid, was this really such outrageous behaviour by the airport officials ?   Uh, yeah. If their story is true, what exactly was done to make anyone safer? How does giving these people a hard time help anyone? Going on a plane by itself shouldn't open you up to an interrogation. They should have just checked their belongings like they were supposed to.

joeyballsack

08-24-2006, 12:33 PM

So you dont think that security measure should be put into place anywhere, ever ?

HBox

08-24-2006, 12:45 PM

joeyballsack wrote: So you dont think that security measure should be put into place anywhere, ever ?  So what you are saying is that you want to kill all babies?

UnknownPD

08-24-2006, 12:52 PM

So what you are saying is that you want to kill all babies?Now you're talking Mission Accomplished

foodcourtdruide

08-24-2006, 12:59 PM

joeyballsack wrote: So you dont think that security measure should be put into place anywhere, ever ? He said that it was fine to check their baggage, but everything else was seemingly unnecessary. How does that translate to "no security measures anywhere, ever"?Security is great, but there's a fine line between being secure and needlessly invading peoples lives. If all we cared about was security, why don't we just put everyone in prison?

joeyballsack

08-24-2006, 12:59 PM

HBox wrote: joeyballsack wrote: So you dont think that security measure should be put into place anywhere, ever ?  So what you are saying is that you want to kill all babies? It may seem controversial now..but in a couple of generations no one will be around to complain.

UnknownPD

08-24-2006, 01:04 PM

He said that it was fine to check their baggage, but everything else was seemingly unnecessaryIt always seems unnecessary and ridiculous unless they're on my flight. Then it's never enough.

narc

08-24-2006, 02:16 PM

<img src="http://img.timeinc.net/teenpeople/images/2005/tracks/091605_4jayz300.jpg" 
"Jigga man, why you treat me like animal?" 
I got nothing.

cougarjake13

08-24-2006, 02:29 PM

my security as well as all americans is more important then this family or all middle eastern looking people for that matterthey have to realize that in this current climate that travelling anywhere within the country or around the world is going to cause suspicion and whether fair or not is going to make life difficult for them

DarkHippie

08-24-2006, 02:36 PM

I don't understand what making them sit on the floor and not giving them food or water helps us check their luggage.They should have at least offered them a ham sandwich

HBox

08-24-2006, 02:38 PM

joeyballsack wrote: HBox wrote: joeyballsack wrote: So you dont think that security measure should be put into place anywhere, ever ? So what you are saying is that you want to kill all babies? It may seem controversial now..but in a couple of generations no one will be around to complain.   Well played.

Jujubees2

08-24-2006, 02:40 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: my security as well as all americans is more important then this family or all middle eastern looking people for that matterthey have to realize that in this current climate that travelling anywhere within the country or around the world is going to cause suspicion and whether fair or not is going to make life difficult for themThat is so messed up.  Just because they may be of the same nationality as the "terrorists", they should expect to get stopped and interrogated for six hours?  That is so wrong on so many levels.  Gee, maybe we should frisk every black person who leaves a store because we all know that blacks commit more crime than whites...As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither".

Bulldogcakes

08-24-2006, 02:44 PM

Joey, I'll guess by your first name that you're a fellow paisan. Lets switch roles here for a second. Lets say that there was a terrorist bombing of a plane in New York. And the people who did it were associated with an Italian mafia family and had Italian last names (How about Sacco and Vanzetti?). Then YOU show up at an airport, and the cops pull you off the flight, start interrogating you. Treat you badly, and you misss your flight and lose the business you were trying to get, or lost a few days offf your vacation time because you happened to have a vowel at the end of your name. Would you find that to be reasonable? Or would you be asking "Cant you guys narrow this shit down a little more than this?" The reality is that racial profiling is BAD POLICE WORK. To stop everyone from a certain ethnic group is enormously time consuming, and the real bad guys have forged documents and walk right through. You need more secondary identifications to make any of this workable. PLus, the more you fuck with people, the more they hate you. And you will CAUSING them to be more likely to BECOME terrorists. Ask the geniuses who run Israel how thats approach has been working for them.    

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 8-24-06 @ 6:49 PM

cougarjake13

08-24-2006, 02:51 PM

Jujubees2 wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: my security as well as all americans is more important then this family or all middle eastern looking people for that matterthey have to realize that in this current climate that travelling anywhere within the country or around the world is going to cause suspicion and whether fair or not is going to make life difficult for themThat is so messed up.  Just because they may be of the same nationality as the "terrorists", they should expect to get stopped and interrogated for six hours?  That is so wrong on so many levels.  Gee, maybe we should frisk every black person who leaves a store because we all know that blacks commit more crime than whites...As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither".well a black person being frisked every time they leave a store is not a matter of national security so i'd have to disagree therebutto the same nationality being stopped and interrogated my answer is yes, until we see non middle eastern men committing terrorist acts then we should be looking anywhere else, and i know the next question will be .. well there hasnt been any female terrorists yet but as we have seen with the recent liquid in a gatorade bomb they are evolving and trying new ideas and using women could be a possibilityso i am sorry for any middle easterners that now have to deal with this, who had nothing to do with this but unfortunately were born in a middle eastern countrybut if anyone has to suffer it should be them and not americans

joeyballsack

08-24-2006, 02:56 PM

I dont think they were actually interrogated for six hours, that just how long they were held before being released because there was such a large backlog of other passengers ahead of them. There probably werent allowed drinks because at the time there was a threat that included liquid explosives contained in drink containers.

SatCam

08-24-2006, 03:01 PM

joeyballsack wrote: I dont think they were actually interrogated for six hours, that just how long they were held before being released because there was such a large backlog of other passengers ahead of them. There probably werent allowed drinks because at the time there was a threat that included liquid explosives contained in drink containers. 

And if given water bottles, these arabs could blow up a whole city by just touching them...

joeyballsack

08-24-2006, 03:17 PM

If there is a threat that contains a very specific element, you dont give the people you are questioning that very thing. That would just seem obvious to me.

TheMojoPin

08-24-2006, 03:36 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: Jujubees2 wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: my security as well as all americans is more important then this family or all middle eastern looking people for that matterthey have to realize that in this current climate that travelling anywhere within the country or around the world is going to cause suspicion and whether fair or not is going to make life difficult for themThat is so messed up.  Just because they may be of the same nationality as the "terrorists", they should expect to get stopped and interrogated for six hours?  That is so wrong on so many levels.  Gee, maybe we should frisk every black person who leaves a store because we all know that blacks commit more crime than whites...As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither".well a black person being frisked every time they leave a store is not a matter of national security so i'd have to disagree therebutto the same nationality being stopped and interrogated my answer is yes, until we see non middle eastern men committing terrorist acts then we should be looking anywhere else, and i know the next question will be .. well there hasnt been any female terrorists yet but as we have seen with the recent liquid in a gatorade bomb they are evolving and trying new ideas and using women could be a possibilityso i am sorry for any middle easterners that now have to deal with this, who had nothing to do with this but unfortunately were born in a middle eastern countrybut if anyone has to suffer it should be them and not americansNot only is this really asinine, it's totally illogical.The most common terrorists today are Muslim extremists.  Muslims, however, look different all over the world.  Over a billion people.  The largest Muslim population is actually in an ASIAN country, Indonesia.  If you look at the photos of wanted, suspected or caught terrorists from global attacks over the last 20 years, including those in the new millenium, they can look arab, persian, Indian, Israeli, Asian (the various regions), latino, mediterranean and black and even caucasian.  In short, to do what you're suggesting, "stop anyone who looks like a terrorist," you'd have to detain/question/search who isn't albino-white.

TheMojoPin

08-24-2006, 03:37 PM

joeyballsack wrote: If there is a threat that contains a very specific element, you dont give the people you are questioning that very thing. That would just seem obvious to me. You can just admit you have no idea how the "liquid explosives" worked.  It wouldn't have sounded nearly as ridiculous.

cougarjake13

08-24-2006, 03:49 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: Jujubees2 wrote: cougarjake13 wrote: my security as well as all americans is more important then this family or all middle eastern looking people for that matterthey have to realize that in this current climate that travelling anywhere within the country or around the world is going to cause suspicion and whether fair or not is going to make life difficult for themThat is so messed up.  Just because they may be of the same nationality as the "terrorists", they should expect to get stopped and interrogated for six hours?  That is so wrong on so many levels.  Gee, maybe we should frisk every black person who leaves a store because we all know that blacks commit more crime than whites...As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither".well a black person being frisked every time they leave a store is not a matter of national security so i'd have to disagree therebutto the same nationality being stopped and interrogated my answer is yes, until we see non middle eastern men committing terrorist acts then we should be looking anywhere else, and i know the next question will be .. well there hasnt been any female terrorists yet but as we have seen with the recent liquid in a gatorade bomb they are evolving and trying new ideas and using women could be a possibilityso i am sorry for any middle easterners that now have to deal with this, who had nothing to do with this but unfortunately were born in a middle eastern countrybut if anyone has to suffer it should be them and not americansNot only is this really asinine, it's totally illogical.The most common terrorists today are Muslim extremists.  Muslims, however, look different all over the world.  Over a billion people.  The largest Muslim population is actually in an ASIAN country, Indonesia.  If you look at the photos of wanted, suspected or caught terrorists from global attacks over the last 20 years, including those in the new millenium, they can look arab, persian, Indian, Israeli, Asian (the various regions), latino, mediterranean and black and even caucasian.  In short, to do what you're suggesting, "stop anyone who looks like a terrorist," you'd have to detain/question/search who isn't albino-white.well then we should ban all passengers from carrying anything on the person while boarding a flight with the exception of photo i.d. passport if needed,cash or credit cardall alse should be placed in luggage and no more carry on items or bags

UnknownPD

08-24-2006, 05:08 PM

well then we should ban all passengers from carrying anything on the person while boarding a flight with the exception of photo i.d. passport if needed,cash or credit cardSpoken like a guy that doesn't fly very often.

Don Stugots

08-24-2006, 05:14 PM

UnknownPD wrote:  So what you are saying is that you want to kill all babies?  Now you're talking Mission Accomplishedhere here.  now i can sleep on the plane in fucking silence.

joeyballsack

08-24-2006, 05:25 PM

[QUOTE]PLus, the more you fuck with people, the more they hate you. And you will CAUSING them to be more likely to BECOME terrorists. Ask the geniuses who run Israel how thats approach has been working for them. <blockquote /> Since you brought it up..the Isrealis have a pretty damn good track record with airline security despite being the main target of international terrorism. <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/">http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/</a>Say what you want about their policies, but they do what it takes to protect their own. 

This message was edited by joeyballsack on 8-24-06 @ 9:25 PM

newport king

08-24-2006, 05:54 PM

they can look arab, persian, Indian, Israeli, Asian (the various regions), latino, mediterranean and black and even caucasian.you can tell the white ones arent "white white". you can tell something else is there. stop everyone thats browner than me, i dont give a shit.

Bulldogcakes

08-24-2006, 05:59 PM

joeyballsack wrote:   PLus, the more you fuck with people, the more they hate you. And you will CAUSING them to be more likely to BECOME terrorists. Ask the geniuses who run Israel how thats approach has been working for them.   Since you brought it up..the Isrealis have a pretty damn good track record with airline security despite being the main target of international terrorism. <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/">http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/</a>Say what you want about their policies, but they do what it takes to protect their own. 

   Yeah, no terrorism in Israel. Got that ALLL Fixed up right there. Unbelievable.  <blockquote />

Davios

08-24-2006, 06:00 PM

joeyballsack wrote:  PLus, the more you fuck with people, the more they hate you. And you will CAUSING them to be more likely to BECOME terrorists. Ask the geniuses who run Israel how thats approach has been working for them.   Since you brought it up..the Isrealis have a pretty damn good track record with airline security despite being the main target of international terrorism. <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/">http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/</a>Say what you want about their policies, but they do what it takes to protect their own. This message was edited by joeyballsack on 8-24-06 @ 9:25 PM  This is very true. Isreali flight security is essentially THE model to follow at this point.

newport king

08-24-2006, 06:00 PM

and i looked up the most wanted terrorists. they looked EXACTLY how i pictured them.<a href="http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm">http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm</a>

Davios

08-24-2006, 06:02 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: joeyballsack wrote:   PLus, the more you fuck with people, the more they hate you. And you will CAUSING them to be more likely to BECOME terrorists. Ask the geniuses who run Israel how thats approach has been working for them.   Since you brought it up..the Isrealis have a pretty damn good track record with airline security despite being the main target of international terrorism. <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/">http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/09/26/rec.el.al.security/</a>Say what you want about their policies, but they do what it takes to protect their own.    Yeah, no terrorism in Israel. Got that ALLL Fixed up right there. Unbelievable.  <blockquote /> I don't think you are really understanding what he is saying. What he is trying to relay is that there really is not a country out there at greater risk of terrorist attacks than Isreal, yet they seemingly don't have to worry about terrorists using their own planes against them due to their stringent yet highly effective security measures.

Yerdaddy

08-26-2006, 07:45 AM

joeyballsack wrote: I dont think they were actually interrogated for six hours, that just how long they were held before being released because there was such a large backlog of other passengers ahead of them. There probably werent allowed drinks because at the time there was a threat that included liquid explosives contained in drink containers. Top of the comedy pyramid!If security officials GIVE them the fucking drinks how are they going to turn them into explosives? Some Muslim Voodoo? How old are you?

epo

08-26-2006, 08:03 AM

<blockquote />to the same nationality being stopped and interrogated my answer is yes, until we see non middle eastern men committing terrorist acts then we should be looking anywhere else, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yea, we white men never do anything wrong: Theodore KaczynskiTimothy McVeigh

JimBeam

08-26-2006, 08:50 AM

As far as white terrorists go what about either side in Northern Ireland ?A whole lot of white faces there blowing each other up.Somebody said earlier that since they were middle easterners that they should be checked for our ( I assum Americans ) safety.Wasn't that family from Jersey ?

epo

08-26-2006, 09:03 AM

In fact the US has a rich history of white terror; just ask the KKK.

HeyGuy

08-26-2006, 09:43 AM

JimBeam wrote: As far as white terrorists go what about either side in Northern Ireland ?A whole lot of white faces there blowing each other up.Somebody said earlier that since they were middle easterners that they should be checked for our ( I assum Americans ) safety.Wasn't that family from Jersey ?I agree 100%. That is why profiling is stupid. But if you ask the right-wingers they will tell you thats different. Well its not. The KKK was a white terror group. The Bloods and crips are a black terror group. MS13 is a latin terror group etc.  The only difference between Muslims and Christians is Christians were terrorist before there were planes and TV. The only reason people think Muslims are worse is we see it ever day and they are more recent. All religion kills in the name of their God at one point and time. Religion is what’s evil.

JimBeam

08-26-2006, 10:00 AM

Campo I am one of those right wingers, and I think at times, very few times, racial profiling works.In this case it seemed unnecessary and I have no problem pointing it out.I think the stranger part was asking them their opinions on Iraq ( which I picked up in the posted headline and did not read the article ).What answers could they give/not give that would make them more or less terror suspects.If they said they thought it was wrong that we had invaded that ( I can't say " their " because I'm not sure these people were Iraqis ) country does that make them suspects ?Its an unfortunate situation but it would've happened at sometime or another regardless of who/what party was in power.

cougarjake13

08-26-2006, 11:38 AM

epo wrote: to the same nationality being stopped and interrogated my answer is yes, until we see non middle eastern men committing terrorist acts then we should be looking anywhere else, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yea, we white men never do anything wrong: Theodore KaczynskiTimothy McVeighoh yeh, what flights/ airlines did they try to blow up or take over, that's right none yeh we have fucked up people in our own country but we're talking about people who are trying to board planes with the intention to kill, TK and mcveigh didnt do anything with planes so there's no way to screen that

TheMojoPin

08-26-2006, 12:19 PM

So what's your solution?

cougarjake13

08-26-2006, 02:47 PM

ban all middle easterners from ever flying againseriously there probably isnt a solution that appeases everyonebut i still like my idea of banning everything but id, passport,credit card or cash onto the planeyeh it sucks but it may be the only way to ensure everyone's safety and possibly eliminate profiling or checking random people

TheMojoPin

08-26-2006, 03:09 PM

Then what happens when someone shoots a plane down from the ground?

cougarjake13

08-26-2006, 03:16 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Then what happens when someone shoots a plane down from the ground? hell, thats a possibilty regardless of who or what we let on the planeif you wanna talk like that then i suppose we all should just stay in our houses and never leave b/c anything , any place at anytime could be bombed, shot down or at, hell even our homes arent safe, so we probably just should all take cyanide pills and kill ourselves to spare us from dying at the hands of terrorists

TheMojoPin

08-26-2006, 04:44 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: TheMojoPin wrote: Then what happens when someone shoots a plane down from the ground? hell, thats a possibilty regardless of who or what we let on the planeif you wanna talk like that then i suppose we all should just stay in our houses and never leave b/c anything , any place at anytime could be bombed, shot down or at, hell even our homes arent safe, so we probably just should all take cyanide pills and kill ourselves to spare us from dying at the hands of terroristsYou basically made my point for me.  You've been arguing that we need to segregate/detain/profile a certain ethnic group because members of that group have been terrorists who blow up planes.  Removing them doesn't remove the threat of blowing up planes.  You could only do that by removing the planes themselves.

furie

08-26-2006, 05:19 PM

She said the experience was disturbing because they were forced to sit on the floor without food or water

i very much doubt that.

high fly

08-26-2006, 11:32 PM

cougarjake13 wrote: my security as well as all americans is more important then this family or all middle eastern looking people for that matter In the above situation, would your security "as well as all Americans" been reduced had those people been allowed to have water?I have been researching terrorism for some time now, and here is a partial list of terrorists who do not fit the profile of the young to middle aged Arab male:<div>Jane Alpert,               Shoku Asahara,           Manfo Kwaku Asiedo,</div><div>Susan Atkins,             Bill Ayers,                   Andreas Baader,</div><div>Ingrid Barabas,           Menachem Begin,         Wilfried Bose,   </div><div>Kathy Boudin,             Bruno Breguet,            David Burgert,</div><div>Mara Cagol,                Armando Carillo,          Maria Carillo,</div><div>Jerome Courtailler,        Renato Curcio,            Bernadine Dhorn,</div><div>Lionel Dumont,             Gudrun Ensslin,            Michael Fortier,</div><div>Dave Gilbert,                Keith Gilbert,              Baruch Goldstein,</div><div>Sandra Good,               Earl Grant,                 Theresa Halesh,</div><div>Clement Rodney Hampton-El,  Larry Wayne Harris,  Siegelinde Hofman,</div><div>Ursula Huber,                Dr. Wolfgang Huber,     Joseph Jaime,</div><div>Mir Amal Kasi,                Leila Khaled,               Yu Kikumura,</div><div>Hans-Joachim Klein,        Brigitte Kohlmann,        Magdalena Kopp,</div><div>Hratch Kozihioukian,        Siranouche Kozihioukian,  Patricia Krenwinkel,</div><div>Norbert Kroecher,           Anna-Karin Lindgren,     John Walker Lindh,</div><div>Horst Mahler,                 Suzy Mahseredjian        Charles Manson,</div><div>Osamu Maruoka,             Tsuchiya Masami,         Robert Jay Matthews,</div><div>Timothy McVeigh,         &nbs

Yerdaddy

08-27-2006, 03:48 AM

furie wrote: She said the experience was disturbing because they were forced to sit on the floor without food or water i very much doubt that. I would be suspicious of this too except that I've heard a couple of people here tell me the same thing happened to them upon arrival from the Middle East. I'm also reading Lonely Planet's website, since I'll be back on the road again soon, and people are posting the same stories. These are white Americans, in fact. Now I don't have any problem with people being asked a bunch of questions upon arrival, or even having the process take a long time if it can be proved to be a valuable tool for discovering terrorists. But I don't think the TSA or the airports or whoever has responsibility over these screenings has incorporated, or is assuring at least, procedures that are considerate of the people who are inconvenienced. I've been living and studying in the same school as John Walker Lindh for the last year and a half and I fully expect to be held and asked a shitload of questions when/if I return to the US. But if I'm treated like a terrorist or even a terrorist suspect I'm going to shit on the fucking floor.As for the questions I've heard are commonly asked, like: "Why didn't you take an organized tour in Syria?" or "Why would you travel there alone?", I hope they are some proven method to detect lies and not just stemming from the fact that none of these questioners have ever actually travelled to the ME, or at least read a goddamn Lonely Planet. The only people who take organized tours or are afraid to travel alone in Syria or even in Yemen are middle-aged Germans and Italians. They do it becuase they've got the money and they pay for comfort. Otherwise travel in most of the Middle East is totally free and safe. Another interesting point about the questions about politics is that this is a common tactic used by ME security agents. I had a Lebanese friend who was arrested because her British boyfriend was the biggest drunk in Yemen. He was a fucking mess, riding his motorcycle around the country, drunker than 500 Indians, trying to get through checkpoints without passes, (the ones everyone knows a westerner needs a pass for), stealing shit from shops, getting in fights, and looking like Sideshow Bob after a 3 month bender. I was waiting for a reason to kick the shit out of him for so many reasons, (not least of which was that I wanted his girlfriend in the worst way). Well, the political security had had it's eye on him for some time, but didn't want to deport him for fear of pissing off the British embassy. Finally, one day he was sitting in his apartment getting pissed when he heard the call to prayer. Forgetting that he wasn't a Muslim, he put on a dingy old thobe, (the all-white head-to-toe shirt-dress that Gulf Arabs wear), and headed off to the nearest mosque to pretend to pray. He apparently staggered around the mosque horrifying everyone and was arrested and released. A short time later, when the Lebanese girl returned, they were both arrested on some false pretexts and they were interrogated. He was deported and she was detained because she was an Arab woman and the laws are very much different for her. What was the point of all this? Oh yeah. She was asked a whole lot of questions about her political views on Lebanon and Yemen. Yet they probably weren't seriously suspicious that she was a spy working for the political opposition or anything; it just seemed like it was part of their routine. Eventually she managed to get deported after some back-channel contacts were made on her behalf and she avoided spending the rest of her life in a Yemeni prison, or worse.Other friends have come to expect to be asked political opinion questions while travelling the ME and especially entering Israel or Palestine, (completely controlled by the Israeli defense forces). I think the US has taught these agencies to ask political que

A.J.

08-28-2006, 04:03 AM

Yerdaddy wrote: Another interesting point about the questions about politics is that this is a common tactic used by ME security agents. I had a Lebanese friend who was arrested because her British boyfriend was the biggest drunk in Yemen. He was a fucking mess, riding his motorcycle around the country, drunker than 500 Indians, trying to get through checkpoints without passes, (the ones everyone knows a westerner needs a pass for), stealing shit from shops, getting in fights, and looking like Sideshow Bob after a 3 month bender. I was waiting for a reason to kick the shit out of him for so many reasons, (not least of which was that I wanted his girlfriend in the worst way). Well, the political security had had it's eye on him for some time, but didn't want to deport him for fear of pissing off the British embassy. Finally, one day he was sitting in his apartment getting pissed when he heard the call to prayer. Forgetting that he wasn't a Muslim, he put on a dingy old thobe, (the all-white head-to-toe shirt-dress that Gulf Arabs wear), and headed off to the nearest mosque to pretend to pray. He apparently staggered around the mosque horrifying everyone and was arrested and released. A short time later, when the Lebanese girl returned, they were both arrested on some false pretexts and they were interrogated. He was deported and she was detained because she was an Arab woman and the laws are very much different for her. What was the point of all this? Oh yeah. She was asked a whole lot of questions about her political views on Lebanon and Yemen. Yet they probably weren't seriously suspicious that she was a spy working for the political opposition or anything; it just seemed like it was part of their routine. Eventually she managed to get deported after some back-channel contacts were made on her behalf and she avoided spending the rest of her life in a Yemeni prison, or worse.This guy sounds like a winner.  Sounds like an episode of Cops:  "Please don't arrest him!  He said he was sorry!"Is there booze in Yemen?  Is it sold only in hotels and private clubs?And the part about wearing the thobe and going into the mosque drunk -- if that happened in Saudi, the dude's head would be removed for him.

Yerdaddy

08-28-2006, 04:52 AM

A.J. wrote: Yerdaddy wrote: Another interesting point about the questions about politics is that this is a common tactic used by ME security agents. I had a Lebanese friend who was arrested because her British boyfriend was the biggest drunk in Yemen. He was a fucking mess, riding his motorcycle around the country, drunker than 500 Indians, trying to get through checkpoints without passes, (the ones everyone knows a westerner needs a pass for), stealing shit from shops, getting in fights, and looking like Sideshow Bob after a 3 month bender. I was waiting for a reason to kick the shit out of him for so many reasons, (not least of which was that I wanted his girlfriend in the worst way). Well, the political security had had it's eye on him for some time, but didn't want to deport him for fear of pissing off the British embassy. Finally, one day he was sitting in his apartment getting pissed when he heard the call to prayer. Forgetting that he wasn't a Muslim, he put on a dingy old thobe, (the all-white head-to-toe shirt-dress that Gulf Arabs wear), and headed off to the nearest mosque to pretend to pray. He apparently staggered around the mosque horrifying everyone and was arrested and released. A short time later, when the Lebanese girl returned, they were both arrested on some false pretexts and they were interrogated. He was deported and she was detained because she was an Arab woman and the laws are very much different for her. What was the point of all this? Oh yeah. She was asked a whole lot of questions about her political views on Lebanon and Yemen. Yet they probably weren't seriously suspicious that she was a spy working for the political opposition or anything; it just seemed like it was part of their routine. Eventually she managed to get deported after some back-channel contacts were made on her behalf and she avoided spending the rest of her life in a Yemeni prison, or worse.This guy sounds like a winner.  Sounds like an episode of Cops:  "Please don't arrest him!  He said he was sorry!"Is there booze in Yemen?  Is it sold only in hotels and private clubs?And the part about wearing the thobe and going into the mosque drunk -- if that happened in Saudi, the dude's head would be removed for him.Booze is sold openly in private clubs, hotels, a few restaurants (usually Chinese and Korean), and covertly by some people from their houses who take a big risk to cut out the cops from the profits. In the Jewish quarter here there's a Jew who sells qat, and if he knows you, will sell you some homemade Jewish wine. I've never tried it only because I'm a recovering alky.Hopefully this guy will move on to Saudi.

furie

08-28-2006, 07:00 AM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">Yerdaddy wrote: furie wrote: [quote]She said the experience was disturbing because they were forced to sit on the floor without food or water i very much doubt that. I would be suspicious of this too except that I've heard a couple of people here tell me the same thing happened to them upon arrival from the Middle East. I'm also reading Lonely Planet's website, since I'll be back on the road again soon, and people are posting the same stories. These are white Americans, in fact. Now I don't have any problem with people being asked a bunch of questions upon arrival, or even having the process take a long time if it can be proved to be a valuable tool for discovering terrorists. But I don't think the TSA or the airports or whoever has responsibility over these screenings has incorporated, or is assuring at least, procedures that are considerate of the people who are inconvenienced. I've been living and studying in the same school as John Walker Lindh for the last year and a half and I fully expect to be held and asked a shitload of questions when/if I return to the US. But if I'm treated like a terrorist or even a terrorist suspect I'm going to shit on the fucking floor.As for the questions I've heard are commonly asked, like: "Why didn't you take an organized tour in Syria?" or "Why would you travel there alone?", I hope they are some proven method to detect lies and not just stemming from the fact that none of these questioners have ever actually travelled to the ME, or at least read a goddamn Lonely Planet. The only people who take organized tours or are afraid to travel alone in Syria or even in Yemen are middle-aged Germans and Italians. They do it becuase they've got the money and they pay for comfort. Otherwise travel in most of the Middle East is totally free and safe. Another interesting point about the questions about politics is that this is a common tactic used by ME security agents. I had a Lebanese friend who was arrested because her British boyfriend was the biggest drunk in Yemen. He was a fucking mess, riding his motorcycle around the country, drunker than 500 Indians, trying to get through checkpoints without passes, (the ones everyone knows a westerner needs a pass for), stealing shit from shops, getting in fights, and looking like Sideshow Bob after a 3 month bender. I was waiting for a reason to kick the shit out of him for so many reasons, (not least of which was that I wanted his girlfriend in the worst way). Well, the political security had had it's eye on him for some time, but didn't want to deport him for fear of pissing off the British embassy. Finally, one day he was sitting in his apartment getting pissed when he heard the call to prayer. Forgetting that he wasn't a Muslim, he put on a dingy old thobe, (the all-white head-to-toe shirt-dress that Gulf Arabs wear), and headed off to the nearest mosque to pretend to pray. He apparently staggered around the mosque horrifying everyone and was arrested and released. A short time later, when the Lebanese girl returned, they were both arrested on some false pretexts and they were interrogated. He was deported and she was detained because she was an Arab woman and the laws are very much different for her. What was the point of all this? Oh yeah. She was asked a whole lot of questions about her political views on Lebanon and Yemen. Yet they probably weren't seriously suspicious that she was a spy working for the political opposition or anything; it just seemed like it was part of their routine. Eventually she managed to get deported after some back-channel contacts were made on her behalf and she avoided spending the rest of her life in a Yemeni prison, or worse.Other friends have come to expect to be asked political opinion questions while travelling the ME and especially entering Israel or Palestine, (completely controlled by the Israeli defense forces). I think t