Do You Believe in God? [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

reeshy

08-25-2006, 06:56 PM

There is probably another thread on this...but I don't care!!  Did you ever look at that sky?...who made that?Did you ever look at a baby's face.....who made that? Rhetorical questions...yes ...but who made tham? I often think about things like this when I walk to work.... When I lost my wife...I cursed God...then I thought about it.....why did she get sick....why couldn't the doctors cure her?  I still  wonder about this.  I'm just a little man an a little planet ( didn't we just get rid of Pluto?)....I don't have the answers.....but if someone can please help me....I would appreciate it!!!!! I guess he has a plan....I just wish he would clue me in!!!!!!!

HBox

08-25-2006, 06:58 PM

I guess he has a plan....I just wish he would clue me in!!!!!!! 
 Sexist.

reeshy

08-25-2006, 07:00 PM

How did I know that you, Hbox, would be a lesbian!!!!!!!!!!!

zentraed

08-25-2006, 07:11 PM

reeshy wrote: I guess he has a plan....I just wish he would clue me in!!!!!!! I'm an atheist, but why would an all-powerful being employ us to carry out his plan(s)? edit: we really need a gender-neutral third person singular pronoun in English. 

This message was edited by zentraed on 8-25-06 @ 11:12 PM

ADF

08-25-2006, 07:13 PM

Not in the slightest.

zildjian361

08-25-2006, 07:25 PM

there's no purgatory so there's only Heaven <img height="22" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/innocent.gif" width="20" border="0" /> and Hell<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/furious.gif" border="0" /> you decide where you want to go

feralBoy

08-25-2006, 07:58 PM

I believe in God for a bunch of reasons, even from a scientific stand-point.  There are alot of theories about how life started, but even if we took the most common.  The was a giant mass of really dense stuff, and one day it suddently exploded, and that started the process.  Eventually something sparked on earth and created life.  Ok.  I could believe that.  But what created all the stuff in the beginning?  Where the fuck did that shit come from?  It had to come from somewhere right?  What created that spark that turned the primordial ooze, into life?  I never understood when people say, "if there was a god, why does he/she allow allow of this horrible stuff to happen?"  I think if we lived in a world where everything was perfect, then it would be really easy to believe in god.  I think the purpose of religion is supposed to be faith.  That you look at this world, with all it's imperfections, and all the miserable shit that happens, and still see some sort of divine influence in it.  I guess if I were to align myself with a religion, it would be christianity.  But I recently went to india, to visit some friends.  I was reading some indian literature, and I was pretty shocked how similar hinduism was to christianity.  For them, they have 4 stages.  And in the first, there is no sin in the world.  But this god, Indra, slept with another mans wive, and by sinning, he opened up the world to sin, and that was the seed of the destruction of the world.  Eventually, it will be destroyed.  Only with them, everything starts over again.  It's not identical, but pretty similar to the garden of eden.  There are other similarities as well.  Vishnu, is a god, but he keeps coming back as a human.  Kinda like the jesus of hinduism.  Just seemed kinda interesting to me.   Anyway, my opinion on that,  is there is some sort of general truth is this world.  All religions seems to have some shade of it.  Maybe there is one religion that is right, but I don't think the other ones are that far off.  People seem to want to create the divides with religion.  Maybe it's just easier to think that you are right, if everyone else is wrong.  Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing.

JesterOfSadness

08-25-2006, 09:06 PM

Nope.

BLZBUBBA

08-25-2006, 09:07 PM

I do believe there is a higher power of some sort.  I can't pin it to one particular book or whatever.  But I do know this for certain.  If man is the highest form of intelligence in the universe THAT would truly be a disappointment.  And maybe the problem with the religions,  ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANITY,  is that they don't seem to adhere to their own teachings.  Living in "THE RED STATE" I can tell you this much.  If you really want to find a Christian God you'd be better off going to a small church.  Go to a church that's not so concerned with building cavernous tabernacles or recreation centers.  You'd be better off going to a small black church for instance.  And you'd also,  in my opinion,  be better off going to a church that stays out of politics.  "Render unto God what is God's and render unto Caesar what is Caesar's."  These Bush-backing houses of worship I just don't get.  My brother is a church-goer who attends a "country-club church" and he's going on about how his minister is telling their congregation how NOT to vote.  What the hell?  What happened to separation of church and state?  That church should lose it's tax-exempt status.  And for that matter...I was once given a lecture about how a certain party "breaks God's laws" and how one should never vote for that party's candidates.    It's no shame to say "I just don't know" what life is all about.  Some of our founding fathers actually believed more in a God of nature than a God in a biblical sense.  There are a lot of books out there.  They all say pretty much the same thing.  If I had to pick a book to follow it would be COSMOS by Carl Sagan.  It's based in fact.  In reading it one also will find that those following other books will sometimes do their best to smear or in some instances torture those that figure out truths running contrary to their interests.  The truth is what it's all about.  Right?  Why mess with anything other than facts?  I've had some professing their Christianity tell me that "I'll keep believing just in case."  Just in case all the facts aren't true?  In every instance where proof has been found,  concerning the evolution vs creation argument for instance,  the proof has backed the scientific rather than biblical.  The truth has backed evolution.  And when the bible stories continue collapsing like a house of cards?  What then?  Everything will give way to a rational thought process.  And will that be a good thing?  Now that's a question.

Gvac

08-26-2006, 04:37 AM

<hr width="100%" size="2" />BLZBUBBA wrote: I do believe there is a higher power of some
sort.  I can't pin it to one particular book or whatever.  But I do
know this for certain.  If man is the highest form of intelligence in
the universe THAT would truly be a disappointment.<hr width="100%" size="2" /> I agree wholeheartedly.  To think that humankind is the highest form of life in the infinite universe seems as backward thinking as the ancient models of the solar system where the sun, moon, stars, and planets all revolved around the Earth.  There is some sort of order to this chaotic world, but I just can't force myself to believe in a giant, Santa Claus-like being who lives in the sky and watches over us, making a list of who's naughty or nice.

booster11373

08-26-2006, 04:45 AM

I think God as IT has been portrayed by the major religions does not exist. Nor do I believe in one.

landarch

08-26-2006, 05:03 AM

I really really used to.  I grew up in the buckle of the Bible Belt, and as a child and young adult I blindly subscribed to all the teachings because I felt I had to.  Church always bored the hell out of me and I can even remember on the ride home from church one day, counting the days until I turned 18 and could move out of my parents house and could finally get out of this weekly obligatory borefest---I couldn't have been older than 8 or 9 at the time.  Converting to Catholicism at age 20 helped a lot, as I was finally able to feel a bit of control over my religious destiny.  I couldn't get past the ridiculousness I saw between different churches--How can a guy in an expensive suit stand there on a Sunday and tell me what is right and wrong, when an identical scenario is playing out across town--only with different rights and wrongs?  In Catholicism, I saw some sort of standardization and it was comforting.Anyhow, at this point I am on the fence about my beliefs.  It feels strange to me to say that I do believe in any higher power, but am still afraid to say that I don't.  It does completely baffle me how anyone can regularly attend these megachurches ("Six Flags Over Jesus" or "Fort God" as my friend calls them) and feel good about themselves.  If I raise my hands in the air, twirl in circles and cry with 49,999 other misguided souls does that make me a better Christian?  Get the fuck out of here.

FezPaul

08-26-2006, 05:50 AM

!Si!

green_bay_jake

08-26-2006, 09:52 AM

i would consider myself agnostic.  i like to believe that there is some form of higher power, but i don't believe in organized religion or that the bible is truly "God's word". 

SatCam

08-26-2006, 10:02 AM

Yes, and his name is Ron Bennington

HeyGuy

08-26-2006, 10:05 AM

green_bay_jake wrote: i would consider myself agnostic.  i like to believe that there is some form of higher power, but i don't believe in organized religion or that the bible is truly "God's word".  My feelings exactly the same!

Don Stugots

08-26-2006, 11:19 AM

CampoNJ wrote: green_bay_jake wrote: i would consider myself agnostic.  i like to believe that there is some form of higher power, but i don't believe in organized religion or that the bible is truly "God's word".  My feelings exactly the same!yeah same here.  i believe that there is some sort of an after life, there is a higher power, but to belong to any organized religon wouldnt work for me.  i am too much of a cynic and smart ass to go to mass.  can you see me sitting in a confessional?  it would have made lucky louie look like a joke.  speak to a priest?  i would be asking him where the wine is and if he looks at the nuns while they are in the shower.  something organized might work for some people but not for me.

reeshy

08-26-2006, 11:53 AM

I wasn't talking about organized religion...just God....is He there?

kellermcgee21

08-26-2006, 12:19 PM

feralBoy wrote: I never understood when people say, "if there was a god, why does he/she allow allow of this horrible stuff to happen?"  I think if we lived in a world where everything was perfect, then it would be really easy to believe in god.  I think the purpose of religion is supposed to be faith.  That you look at this world, with all it's imperfections, and all the miserable shit that happens, and still see some sort of divine influence in it.  I wonder how AIDS babies feel about that.

TheMojoPin

08-26-2006, 12:21 PM

kellermcgee21 wrote: feralBoy wrote: I never understood when people say, "if there was a god, why does he/she allow allow of this horrible stuff to happen?"  I think if we lived in a world where everything was perfect, then it would be really easy to believe in god.  I think the purpose of religion is supposed to be faith.  That you look at this world, with all it's imperfections, and all the miserable shit that happens, and still see some sort of divine influence in it.  I wonder how AIDS babies feel about that."Oh, God, you ol' knucklehead!  Zinged me again!"

cougarjake13

08-26-2006, 03:09 PM

i'm not a faith believing person, it needs to be tangible or visible for me to believei have never seen god, or talked to him personally , so i therefore cannot believe in him

TheGameHHH

08-26-2006, 03:43 PM

cougar, I understand what you're saying but that logic is faulty. Have you ever seen India, literally walked on it's soil? If you've never been there or seen it then by your rational you must also believe India doesn't exist. I believe in something, I don't know what, greater than us. That is what I call God.

Ogre

08-26-2006, 03:59 PM

I down with G.O.D. in a big big way..Not so hot for organized religion in alot of forms.  Some of them are down right scary.  I love God and and would never deny him.  I just am very put off by Evangelicals, and some aspects of the more traditionals, like Catholic and Protestant faiths.  I was rasied in a Lutheran/Methodist upbringing (might explain why I am wound so tight) and dont pretend to know much about the Hebrew and Muslim faiths.  I just know that God is with me in daily life and I try to do right by him.  Tell the truth, try not to fuck other people over (even if they got it comin), try to do some good things for the less fortunate and pray/meditate at times other than when my ass is in a jam.  So yeah I believe in God.  It gives me inner peace in an insane world.*edited for redundancy and general retarded expression of thought.

This message was edited by Ogre on 8-26-06 @ 8:01 PM

SpicyMcHaggis

08-26-2006, 04:04 PM

No.  Plain and simple.  It's not because of hatred for religions or anything like that.  I do not qualify myself as an atheist.  I just don't believe in God for the fact that there is no God.  Nothing has changed in my life because of it nor has it gotten better or worse.  It's always been like that for me.  I don't disrespect anyone for believing in it.  That's your deal.  I can't change you.

Sleeves

08-26-2006, 04:43 PM

I was brought up Catholic. Declared atheism when I was 13.  Declared agnosticism a little while after that as it sounded wiser. Declared alcoholism when I was 32.   No AA for me, but I've been sober since then and I'm 39 now.  I'm not just saying that to say it.  It's been the catalyst for my spiritual searching. I have always been incredibly skeptical.  Like a lot of the people in this thread have written, I wanted to see God in some way.  Touch him.I have always been purely against "New Agey" books.  They just seemed like drivel. A lot of them are I'm sure.  At around the time I quit drinking, I read a self-help book called "The Four Agreements".  It doesn't espouse any kind of spirituality per se, but it does help you see some common mistakes that most people make day to day, moment to moment.  Thinking about the the "Agreements" helped me see how difficult I was making my own life.  Kind of like what Ron's always saying to Fez.  The Four Agreements helped me to drop a lot of my Fez-like anxieties, my made up worries and fears.  I felt and still feel, much lighter.  Maybe a year after this, I read Eckhart Tolle's Power of Now.  I'd seen it in the bookstore a few times and it just looked silly.  He looked silly.  But I read a few pages and liked it.  Again, what was described in the book was not spiritual per se, at least not in any way that I'd imagined spiritualism to be.  Tolle's message amplified Don Miguel Ruiz's Four Agreement's message.  Deepened it and awakened in me a sense of the world and living as a very, very simple thing.  In the few years that I've been looking into this, reading all sorts of texts, I've come to understand a number of things.  First off, most true spiritual teachers will tell you that any religion is a fine way to access the truth.  Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist.  All religions offer the same truth, in different clothing.  Each religion too, to a greater or lesser degree, has suffered from a kind of "objectification" of its story.  All spiritual teachers are pointing you in the direction of truth.  "We cannot tell you what it is, or how to get there, but if you look that way and maybe go that way, you may find out..." This is what Christ did with his stories, what the Buddha did, what all ancient holy texts do.  They point you in a direction and they use the language of stories to present their message so that the listener does not take the story itself to be the truth.  The truth is beyond words.  But most religions have taken the words themselves and made the words the important part. Made the words more important than the direction they were pointing.  Thus, a certain kind of literalism developed that helped to create, for example, the idea that God is a white haired, white bearded old man who lives in the sky.  When I look back on it, my atheism had a lot to do with a rejection of this imagery. If you look into this broadly and deeply, you will come to see that Christ did not believe in God the way that the church teaches.  Christ believed in God in the way the Buddha believed in God. He was teaching us the way out of hell - and into a heaven on earth.  One in which, yes, the body dies.  But one in which you are free to explore existence in all its glory, without being held down by things that are not true.

Gvac

08-26-2006, 04:59 PM

<hr width="100%" size="2" /> All spiritual teachers are pointing you in the
direction of truth.  "We cannot tell you what it is, or how to get
there, but if you look that way and maybe go that way, you may find
out..." This is what Christ did with his stories, what the Buddha did,
what all ancient holy texts do.  They point you in a direction and they
use the language of stories to present their message so that the
listener does not take the story itself to be the truth.  The truth is
beyond words.  But most religions have taken the words themselves and
made the words the important part. Made the words more important than
the direction they were pointing.<hr width="100%" size="2" />You hit the nail on the head, Sleeves.   The classic Buddhist saying puts it best, I believe - 
"...to point at the moon a finger is needed, but woe to
those who take the finger for the moon...
" You've piqued my curiosity with those books you mentioned.  Maybe I'll check 'em out.

SpicyMcHaggis

08-26-2006, 05:09 PM

I never understood religion from the beginning.  I thought, "So many thing contradict each other.  So many ideas repeat themselves in history."  So I came to the rationalization that religion was created for explanation and then others evolved on those explanations to spread a message of peace.  Throughout the years the message has been construed and changed to fit the wants and desires of those in charge of those ideas.  Some have stayed true to it being a message of peace.  Some have changed it to fit their needs of accomplishing their own selfish acts.  In the end, for me, I believe in finding inner peace in any way you see fit as long as it doesn't involve hate towards others or their ideas/lifestyles.

mdr55

08-26-2006, 05:19 PM

God Lives!!! Turk 182

narc

08-26-2006, 05:31 PM

Yes.

AngelAmy

08-26-2006, 07:14 PM

i worship the almighty funkman44ffe <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wub.gif" border="0" />

Lumber

08-26-2006, 07:22 PM

ADF wrote: Not in the slightest.             <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/lumber/niggaplease.jpg" border="0" />

Reephdweller

08-26-2006, 08:18 PM

I'm a little torn on this issue, on one hand I would like to think that there is a higher power out there. That there is a special place our loved ones go after they are gone. Though I just don't think it really is so, so I'd have to say no.  One of the things I always hate about saying I don't believe in God is that I start to think that perhaps my perspective may change one day after having a kid. That the idea of life itself might take on a different meaning for me. I know several people who were staunch athiests and they changed their views after having kids, so I always wonder about that.All that aside though, I do not believe in organized religion.

This message was edited by Reefdweller on 8-27-06 @ 12:20 AM

JerryTaker

08-26-2006, 08:19 PM

I just need to look in the mirror for proof that there is no god...

reeshy

08-26-2006, 08:59 PM

Trying to keep this thread straight....it is not about organized religion...only about God!!!! I believe in God....how else did I walk out of a burning building with my partner (and my shirt on fire) and have no injuries? How did I marry a wonderful woman and not deserve her?...and yet she still loved me!!! How else did I have 2 beautiful kids and they turned out great despite my best efforts???? Why is the sky beautiful and the stars are always in the same place every night? I believe in God!!!

keithy_19

08-26-2006, 09:29 PM

I used to have a lot of blind faith when I was younger. Then I got diagnosed with MS when I was 14 and I kind of lost sight of God. I became much more questioning (which I don't think is wrong at all). I never really fully came back to God until recently. I realized that, life can't be this simple. You're born. You live. You die. Maybe it's jsut my overactive imagination and my desire to be a writer, but that story is so boring. Who would care to read it, much less be a part of it? So, yes Reeshy, there is a God.

Lumber

08-26-2006, 09:39 PM

keithy_19 wrote: I used to have a lot of blind faith when I was younger. Then I got diagnosed with MS when I was 14 and I kind of lost sight of God. I became much more questioning (which I don't think is wrong at all). I never really fully came back to God until recently. I realized that, life can't be this simple. You're born. You live. You die. Maybe it's jsut my overactive imagination and my desire to be a writer, but that story is so boring. Who would care to read it, much less be a part of it? So, yes Reeshy, there is a God.            I would buy & read your book Keithy...and yes, there is a God

This message was edited by Lumber on 8-27-06 @ 1:40 AM

XMRonFez

08-26-2006, 10:57 PM

romey79

08-27-2006, 02:53 AM

No...Faith is the surrender of reason & logic.

HBox

08-27-2006, 03:14 AM

The following commentary is not made in any sort of arrogance or sense of superiority:I used to be a Catholic. I became oldar and challenged the beliefs that were being fed to me. I for a time became a miltant atheist, the kind who took any expression or acknolwedgement of faith as an assualt on myself, and would counterattack relentlessly. Then I became a laid back atheist when I realized how pompous and obnoxious that kind of behavior was. I would challenge only when challenged. Then I became an agnostic when I realized that I really had no clue either way. But then I took a step further one day and wondered: what does it matter, really? Would it affect my life either way? Because there either is or there isn't and whether I know or not or believe or not doesn't really effect anything other than my mental state, which is just fine considering (no jokes).So that's where I am now. If pushed I would say I am an agnostic, but I honestly don't care and don't pay it any mind anymore.

Reephdweller

08-27-2006, 03:42 AM

Trying to keep this thread straight....it is not about organized religion...only about God!!!!I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread with my comment on organized religion Reesh, I just added it while I was in the area of the subject.

Yerdaddy

08-27-2006, 03:54 AM

<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/twainlfe.htm" target="_blank">I believe in Mark Twain.</a> Shem was full of hookworms. It is wonderful, the thorough and comprehensive study which the Creator devoted to the great work of making man miserable. I have said he devised a special affliction-agent for each and every detail of man's structure, overlooking not a single one, and I said the truth. Many poor people have to go barefoot, because they cannot afford shoes. The Creator saw his opportunity. I will remark, in passing, that he always has his eye on the poor. Nine-tenths of his disease-inventions were intended for the poor, and they get them. The well-to-do get only what is left over. Do not suspect me of speaking unheedfully, for it is not so: the vast bulk of the Creator's affliction-inventions are specially designed for the persecution of the poor. You could guess this by the fact that one of the pulpit's finest and commonest names for the Creator is "The Friend of the Poor." Under no circumstances does the pulpit ever pay the Creator a compliment that has a vestige of truth in it. The poor's most implacable and unwearying enemy is their Father in Heaven. The poor's only real friend is their fellow man. He is sorry for them, he pities them, and he shows it by his deeds. He does much to relieve their distresses; and in every case their Father in Heaven gets the credit of it.  Just so with diseases. If science exterminates a disease which has been working for God, it is God that gets the credit, and all the pulpits break into grateful advertising-raptures and call attention to how good he is! Yes, he has done it. Perhaps he has waited a thousand years before doing it. That is nothing; the pulpit says he was thinking about it all the time. When exasperated men rise up and sweep away an age-long tyranny and set a nation free, the first thing the delighted pulpit does is to advertise it as God's work, and invite the people to get down on their knees and pour out their thanks to him for it. And the pulpit says with admiring emotion, "Let tyrants understand that the Eye that never sleeps is upon them; and let them remember that the Lord our God will not always be patient, but will loose the whirlwinds of his wrath upon them in his appointed day." They forget to mention that he is the slowest mover in the universe; that his Eye that never sleeps, might as well, since it takes it a century to see what any other eye would see in a week; that in all history there is not an instance where he thought of a noble deed first, but always thought of it just a little after somebody else had thought of it and done it. He arrives then, and annexes the dividend.  God's an asshole.

This message was edited by Yerdaddy on 8-27-06 @ 9:30 AM

Don Stugots

08-27-2006, 05:22 AM

Reefdweller wrote:  Trying to keep this thread straight....it is not about organized religion...only about God!!!!  I didn't mean to sidetrack the thread with my comment on organized religion Reesh, I just added it while I was in the area of the subject.me either, i was just stating my beliefs.  to answer the question then, yes i do believe in god.  i believe in heaven and hell.  i believe that when you die you are judged for the good and bad that you have done.  if the good out weighs the bad then you are in.  i picture heaven as being like the book/movie WHAT DREAMS MAY COME.  take a look at it and see for yourself.  I believe if the bad out weighs the good then you have to atone for your sins.  not forever (depending on what you did, and the difference of good vs. bad) more like a purgatory.

cougarjake13

08-27-2006, 06:01 AM

TheGameHHH wrote: cougar, I understand what you're saying but that logic is faulty. Have you ever seen India, literally walked on it's soil? If you've never been there or seen it then by your rational you must also believe India doesn't exist. I believe in something, I don't know what, greater than us. That is what I call God. its funny that you brought that up b/c i do in fact have that problem too, whether its something here now that i have never been to, even though i see clips or movies of that place, is it really that place ?does it really exist ??also things that occured in the past, yeh teachers tell me that all the history happened before my time but i wasnt there so how do i really know it existed, maybe it was all made up many years later after the fact or event that suppossedly took place

SpicyMcHaggis

08-27-2006, 06:25 AM

I hate when people bring up a point like that.  Of course India exists.  It's there.  Ok?  It exists.  Tangible things that are known throughout the world exist and just because I haven't seen them doesn't make me question if it's there or not, because if it did, I would be a god damn moron.

Yerdaddy

08-27-2006, 07:50 AM

I saw the exorcist, so I KNOW that shit is real, man!<img src="http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9069/exorcist42xo2.jpg" border="0" />

Gvac

08-27-2006, 07:56 AM

SpicyMcHaggis wrote: I hate when people bring up a point like that. Of course India exists. It's there. Ok? It exists. Tangible things that are known throughout the world exist and just because I haven't seen them doesn't make me question if it's there or not, because if it did, I would be a god damn moron. So you DO believe!

CuzBum

08-27-2006, 08:02 AM

Of course I believe in dog!

SatCam

08-27-2006, 09:09 AM

CuzBum wrote: Of course I believe in dog!

http://www.e-hawaii.com/stars/index/duane_dog_chapman/images/duane_dog_chapman.jpg

You better believe in me you bitch or I'll take you down, motherfucker.

FUNKMAN

08-27-2006, 09:48 AM

i believe the children are our future

furie

08-27-2006, 10:40 AM

i'm a quasi-athiest. I believe in God, but put very little faith the bible, especially the old testament, as a book of fact. I see it more as a collection of morality tales. when it comes to the creation of theworld or the history and nature of man, i turn to science.

narc

08-27-2006, 02:39 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">furie wrote: i'm a quasi-athiest. I believe in God, but put very little faith the bible, especially the old testament, as a book of fact. I see it more as a collection of morality tales. when it comes to the creation of theworld or the history and nature of man, i turn to science.<hr color="cococo" align="left">

The interesting thing about the old testament is there probably is a lot of fact in there, especially if you read between the lines. 
I'm not talking about the burning bush talking to Moses or parting the red sea or anything like that, or the other stuff that's patently hard to accept as fact. 
But one of the interesting things is how much emphasis was put on the first commandment - not having any other gods. If you read the old testament (and I personally think it's a great read. Better than the Sopranos, after a fashion) everything suggests that the Ancient Israelites were REALLY BAD about that one, and were probably worshipping all kinds of Gods, which is what pissed off the people who wrote the Old Testament. The ten lost tribes of Israel, who lived in the north, are blamed and cursed for breaking that one time and again in the bible. Most historians believe that part of the bible was written by priests loyal to King David and his successors, like Solomon etc, who were most likely not very nice guys at all, despite what the Bible says. David fucked another guy's wife when he was married and then had him killed. Solomon had a ton of wives and probably worshipped other gods. So that part of the bible glorifying them was probably just propaganda. But the reason that the guys who wrote that part of the bible liked them so much was because they set up the temple in Jerusalem and said it was the only place that God could be worshipped. Obviously, this was really inconvenient for the Northern tribes, who would've had to come a long way to basically stay in good with God. So they eventually split and probably worshipped other gods as well as the God of the bible, and they get ripped apart for it in the bible. 
But I guess my point is that Judaism then looked a lot different than it does now, and the beliefs were probably even a lot different. Even though the bible said to do otherwise, most of the Israelites probably worshipped a few gods (like everyone did back then). There are certain passages, and archaeological evidence to show that this was the case, believed that God had a female consort who was also worshipped. The guys who write the bible complain about this A LOT, and it's probably because they were in the minority. 
Most of this is in Chronicles/Kings, if you're interested.

TheMojoPin

08-27-2006, 02:42 PM

I believe in a magician named GOB.

CuzBum

08-27-2006, 02:42 PM

FUNKMAN wrote: i believe the children are our future You're out there man, you're out there.

SatCam

08-27-2006, 02:45 PM

Do You Believe in God?

of course I believe in myself

reeshy

08-27-2006, 02:46 PM

Funky is so far out there, that's he in here...with me...and I wish he'd leave...he's scaring me!!!!

ADF

08-27-2006, 02:46 PM

Lumber wrote: ADF wrote: Not in the slightest. <img border="0" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/lumber/niggaplease.jpg" />   Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the population.

CuzBum

08-27-2006, 04:01 PM

ADF wrote:  Lumber wrote: ADF wrote: Not in the slightest. <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/lumber/niggaplease.jpg" border="0" />   Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the population. Jesus told me you're a liar!

soupcan

08-27-2006, 04:12 PM

Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the populatiion...and those 16% have belittle and undermined all forms of religion to try to convert belevers into non believers ...u dont believe in god good for u , go to hell( or not).. leave the people with faith believe what they will. If u think it stupid ..SO FUKIN WHAT.!?! To each their own....everybodies so dam busy trying to destroy other peoples believe systems it pisses me off and causes nothing but strife. muslim , jew , christian buddhists , agnostic , atheists,etc....everybody thinks their shit is the way . do ur thing die and we'll let god sort it out.(or not). religion isnt the cause of strife, its the godam converting,   mightier than thou attitude bullshit, that is the problem!! if we could actually RESPECT each others opinions and belief systems life would be an easy ride , man! 

This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 8:15 PM

SatCam

08-27-2006, 04:15 PM

soupcan wrote: Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the populatiion...and those 16% have belittle and undermined all forms of religion to try to convert belevers into non believers ...u dont believe in god good for u , go to hell( or not).. leave the people with faith believe what they will. If u think it stupid ..SO FUKIN WHAT.!?! To each their own....everybodies so dam busy trying to destroy other peoples believe systems it pisses me off and causes nothing but strife. muslim , jew , christian buddhists , agnostic , atheists,etc....everybody thinks their shit is the way . do ur thing die and we'll let god sort it out.(or not). religion isnt the cause of strife, its the godam converting bulshit mightier than thou attitude, that is the problem!! if we could actually RESPECT each others opinions and belief systems life would be an easy ride , man! 

shhhhhhhhhh

you're wrong!

soupcan

08-27-2006, 04:19 PM

rite ,sorry , i meant PARTY ON DUDES!

CuzBum

08-27-2006, 04:33 PM

soupcan wrote: Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the populatiion...and those 16% have belittle and undermined all forms of religion to try to convert belevers into non believers ...u dont believe in god good for u , go to hell( or not).. leave the people with faith believe what they will. If u think it stupid ..SO FUKIN WHAT.!?!To each their own....everybodies so dam busy trying to destroy other peoples believe systems it pisses me off and causes nothing but strife. muslim , jew , christian buddhists , agnostic , atheists,etc....everybody thinks their shit is the way . do ur thing die and we'll let god sort it out.(or not). religion isnt the cause of strife, its the godam converting,   mightier than thou attitude bullshit, that is the problem!! if we could actually RESPECT each others opinions and belief systems life would be an easy ride , man! This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 8:15 PM YOU'RE FREAKIN' ME OUT MAN!

soupcan

08-27-2006, 04:46 PM

CuzBum wrote: soupcan wrote: Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the populatiion...and those 16% have belittle and undermined all forms of religion to try to convert belevers into non believers ...u dont believe in god good for u , go to hell( or not).. leave the people with faith believe what they will. If u think it stupid ..SO FUKIN WHAT.!?!To each their own....everybodies so dam busy trying to destroy other peoples believe systems it pisses me off and causes nothing but strife. muslim , jew , christian buddhists , agnostic , atheists,etc....everybody thinks their shit is the way . do ur thing die and we'll let god sort it out.(or not). religion isnt the cause of strife, its the godam converting, mightier than thou attitude bullshit, that is the problem!! if we could actually RESPECT each others opinions and belief systems life would be an easy ride ,man! 

This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 8:50 PM

soupcan

08-27-2006, 04:54 PM

<img border="0" src="http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:dIsmVLytkJp9yM:http://loh.loswego.k12.or.us/censonib/photo%2520gallery%2520two/bridge%2520jump.jpg" /><img border="0" src="http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://loh.loswego.k12.or.us/censonib/photo%2520gallery%2520two/bridge%2520jump.jpg&imgrefurl=http://loh.loswego.k12.or.us/censonib/Censoniin/censoni_in_florida.htm&h=1284&w=939&sz=141&hl=en&start=29&tbnid=dIsmVLytkJp9yM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=109&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djumping%2Boff%2Bbridges%26start%3D18% 26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26clien t%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DN" />jeesh!, impossible to post anything without people jumping off bridges and shit! <img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/editmessage.cfm/Forum/69/Topic/52005/Message/jeesh%21,%20a%20guy%20cant%20say%20any%20simple%20 thing%20on%20this%20site%20without%20people%20jump ing%20off%20buildings%20and%20shit%21" /> 

This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 9:01 PM

ADF

08-27-2006, 05:02 PM

soupcan wrote: Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the populatiion...and those 16% have belittle and undermined all forms of religion to try to convert belevers into non believers ...u dont believe in god good for u , go to hell( or not).. leave the people with faith believe what they will. If u think it stupid ..SO FUKIN WHAT.!?! To each their own....everybodies so dam busy trying to destroy other peoples believe systems it pisses me off and causes nothing but strife. muslim , jew , christian buddhists , agnostic , atheists,etc....everybody thinks their shit is the way . do ur thing die and we'll let god sort it out.(or not). religion isnt the cause of strife, its the godam converting, mightier than thou attitude bullshit, that is the problem!! if we could actually RESPECT each others opinions and belief systems life would be an easy ride , man! 

This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 8:15 PM  You're right; atheism has a terrible history of intolerance.  What was I thinking?

soupcan

08-27-2006, 05:05 PM

atheisms's intolerance shines loud and clear through ridiculing others believes... and adf if u cant agree with that then ow about we just drop it k? ... like i said before people r too concerned about wat others believe and when they find out get too opssessed with belittling or converting em! 

This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 9:10 PM

JerseyJokes

08-27-2006, 05:11 PM

I believe only the stuff on here... http://www.evilbible.com/

CuzBum

08-27-2006, 05:18 PM

I believe in miracles, since you came along, you sexy thing.

Don Stugots

08-27-2006, 05:32 PM

reeshy wrote: Trying to keep this thread straight....it is not about organized religion...only about God!!!!I believe in God....how else did I walk out of a burning building with my partner (and my shirt on fire) and have no injuries?How did I marry a wonderful woman and not deserve her?...and yet she still loved me!!!How else did I have 2 beautiful kids and they turned out great despite my best efforts????Why is the sky beautiful and the stars are always in the same place every night?I believe in God!!! why do you feel that you didnt deserve your wife?did you ever question, doubt or hate God for taking your wife from you?  not to be a ball buster, i am more curious than anything and if you dont want these questions here feel free to PM or just tell me its none of my b-i-business

Yerdaddy

08-28-2006, 02:21 AM

soupcan wrote:  atheisms's intolerance shines loud and clear through ridiculing others believes... and adf if u cant agree with that then ow about we just drop it k? ... like i said before people r too concerned about wat others believe and when they find out get too opssessed with belittling or converting em! This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 9:10 PM Hypocrisy is FUN!<img height="226" src="http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/patrobertson_01.jpg" width="300" border="0" />

A.J.

08-28-2006, 04:14 AM

Negative.  If we don't understand something it's because we haven't figured it out yet.

booster11373

08-28-2006, 04:38 AM

So.... this is the world that his believers have made, Good Job. (sarcasm)

soupcan

08-29-2006, 05:01 PM

FezPaul

08-29-2006, 05:08 PM

ADF wrote:  soupcan wrote: Approximately 16% of the world is atheist or agnostic, making it the third largest segment of the populatiion...and those 16% have belittle and undermined all forms of religion to try to convert belevers into non believers ...u dont believe in god good for u , go to hell( or not).. leave the people with faith believe what they will. If u think it stupid ..SO FUKIN WHAT.!?!To each their own....everybodies so dam busy trying to destroy other peoples believe systems it pisses me off and causes nothing but strife. muslim , jew , christian buddhists , agnostic , atheists,etc....everybody thinks their shit is the way . do ur thing die and we'll let god sort it out.(or not). religion isnt the cause of strife, its the godam converting, mightier than thou attitude bullshit, that is the problem!! if we could actually RESPECT each others opinions and belief systems life would be an easy ride , man! This message was edited by soupcan on 8-27-06 @ 8:15 PM   You're right; atheism has a terrible history of intolerance.  What was I thinking? http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f281/FezPaul/XQbNtYqfOOOD.jpg "You tell 'em ADF, those stories they told about me are lies, all lies."

Clutch

08-29-2006, 05:18 PM

I'm catholic ... so I believe in God because I was taught it ... and because I believe there truly is a higher power. What I don't believe in are the people who want to force a religion idea down your throat. Each religion has its "holy day" and people go with that in their own way. Be happy people believe in something. When my father passed away almost 3 years ago, I wasn't sure how he (my father) would hear my prayers... So I asked God to send him a message, the nite he passed away and from that point forward I've "heard" from my dad on a few occasions....

blakjeezis

08-29-2006, 08:32 PM

In a word, no. I am hestiant, however, to throw in my lot with the Atheist, uhhhhhh, lot, because it seems that there are a whole lot of Atheists out there whose main goal in life seems to be to piss in peoples' oatmeal. Like that douchebag out in Cali who is always trying to get them to take "Under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance. Bro, get a grip. Seriously. Sure, I've said things, even on this very message board, about lining up all the believers and shooting them, but I was only kidding (ha-ha).

I've gotten off track. This wasn't a decision I reached easily. In fact for a great number of years, I was a rather staunch defender of religion and God. But one evening, while being ravaged by fever, I laid in my bed and argued with myself about the existence of this supreme being, and the conclusion I reached is there is absolutely no, none, zip, zero, rational argument to believe. Now, "that's all well and good," I hear the faitful out there crying, "but it's not about facts or rationality. It's about faith." This is where the Horde King (gasp) enters the story.

For a long time, he would say things like belief robs people of their self government, and I would scoff and think to myself that he was talking half-crazy, psycho-babble talk. Something happened to me, though, not long after the aforementioned feverish night.

I got into a car accident, not a bad one, a fender bender on the ol' GWB. No injuries, everyone was fine. Of course I was upset; you see, I have a bad habit of rear-ending people. I do it about once a year. Anyway, so I found myself reverting back to my same old ways of thinking as after all the other times: "Why does this happen to me?" "It must be to balance out the good things that have been happening recently." "It's the way God made me." "It was meant to happen." "I'm just one of those people that have bad luck with cars." And then I realised that the reason it happened, and the only reason it happened was I was thinking about a broad instead of paying attention to the road. That's it. That's all it was. There was no plan, God's or otherwise; no Karma; no fate; no luck, good, bad or indifferent. I'm just a neglectful driver. Once I understood this, I wasn't upset anymore. For the first time I realised that I, and I alone, am in complete control my life.

It has changed my Weltanschauung completely. I'm much happier, more confident, more sure of my direction in life. I can truly, absolutely, without a doubt say that it was most certainly a turn for the better if not the best. And again, I'm not here to tell you that you're stupid or weak or whatever for believing in God or Heaven or Hell or what have you. The world is a twisted and complex place. Whatever prism you need to look through to split it into colors that make sense to you is absolutely the way you should go. Rock and Roll. But do not expect others to share your views, or try and force them to believe them. God or no God.

Besides, most people anymore say they're "spiritual but not religious". Translation: "I've taken the religious teachings of a particular faith and have thrown out the bits I disagree with." So in the end, we're all just sort of making it up as we go along anyway.

Gvac

08-30-2006, 04:16 AM

Blakjeezis may be the most intelligent and introspective poster on this messageboard.  Testify!

soupcan

08-30-2006, 09:13 AM

Seconded, hallelujah!Gvac wrote: Blakjeezis may be the most intelligent and introspective poster on this messageboard. Testify!

SatCam

08-30-2006, 09:14 AM

I would admit to being an atheist, but I don't want to go to hell

HeyGuy

08-30-2006, 10:19 AM

blakjeezis wrote: In a word, no. I am hestiant, however, to throw in my lot with the Atheist, uhhhhhh, lot, because it seems that there are a whole lot of Atheists out there whose main goal in life seems to be to piss in peoples' oatmeal. Like that douchebag out in Cali who is always trying to get them to take "Under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance. Bro, get a grip. Seriously. Sure, I've said things, even on this very message board, about lining up all the believers and shooting them, but I was only kidding (ha-ha). I've gotten off track. This wasn't a decision I reached easily. In fact for a great number of years, I was a rather staunch defender of religion and God. But one evening, while being ravaged by fever, I laid in my bed and argued with myself about the existence of this supreme being, and the conclusion I reached is there is absolutely no, none, zip, zero, rational argument to believe. Now, "that's all well and good," I hear the faitful out there crying, "but it's not about facts or rationality. It's about faith." This is where the Horde King (gasp) enters the story. For a long time, he would say things like belief robs people of their self government, and I would scoff and think to myself that he was talking half-crazy, psycho-babble talk. Something happened to me, though, not long after the aforementioned feverish night. I got into a car accident, not a bad one, a fender bender on the ol' GWB. No injuries, everyone was fine. Of course I was upset; you see, I have a bad habit of rear-ending people. I do it about once a year. Anyway, so I found myself reverting back to my same old ways of thinking as after all the other times: "Why does this happen to me?" "It must be to balance out the good things that have been happening recently." "It's the way God made me." "It was meant to happen." "I'm just one of those people that have bad luck with cars." And then I realised that the reason it happened, and the only reason it happened was I was thinking about a broad instead of paying attention to the road. That's it. That's all it was. There was no plan, God's or otherwise; no Karma; no fate; no luck, good, bad or indifferent. I'm just a neglectful driver. Once I understood this, I wasn't upset anymore. For the first time I realised that I, and I alone, am in complete control my life. It has changed my Weltanschauung completely. I'm much happier, more confident, more sure of my direction in life. I can truly, absolutely, without a doubt say that it was most certainly a turn for the better if not the best. And again, I'm not here to tell you that you're stupid or weak or whatever for believing in God or Heaven or Hell or what have you. The world is a twisted and complex place. Whatever prism you need to look through to split it into colors that make sense to you is absolutely the way you should go. Rock and Roll. But do not expect others to share your views, or try and force them to believe them. God or no God. Besides, most people anymore say they're "spiritual but not religious". Translation: "I've taken the religious teachings of a particular faith and have thrown out the bits I disagree with." So in the end, we're all just sort of making it up as we go along anyway. wow that may have been the best thing I read on this board. very nice and I'm with you on almost everything you said.  I would never same Im atheist. I more acnostic. Im spiritual I believe there may be something like a god but I dont need to beleive all of religions teachings or follow any book. 

This message was edited by CampoNJ on 8-30-06 @ 2:21 PM

Jujubees2

08-30-2006, 10:29 AM

I'm with Crash Davis:<img height="222" src="http://images.movie-gazette.com/revimg/bull-durham.jpg" width="150" border="0" />"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days."

MrPink

08-30-2006, 09:26 PM

I believe in God. Something in a philosophy class I took last semester helped me to solidify my belief. Besides, we are all pretty dumb fucks, there's gotta be somebody smarter...

trackstand

10-26-2006, 03:59 AM

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/25/AR2006102501998.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/25/AR2006102501998.html</a>iSN'T IT NICE THAT ANYONE VOCAL ABOUT NOT BELIEVING IN GOD SHOULD FEAR FOR THEIR SAFETY?Penn Gilette is the better spokesperson, but still...

Death Metal Moe

10-26-2006, 07:11 AM

Religion is a nice story you tell kids and that adults keep beliving.  Someone always watching over you.  Someone who knows the "Real" you to be judged at your death.I don't know why people can't just get it that we're a cosmic accident.  Our existence isn't preordained by any greater power.  There's no one up there.Religion and thoughts of "God" are for the weak.  It's a nice story you tell yourself to deal with death.Religion has done more to exclude people than include them.  It's probably the single most used excuse people have used through history to kill.  It does nothing but divide us and bring about feelings of superiority for your religion because only YOU and your religions know the TRUE way to be saved.It's fucking disgusting.  I hate it.

Furtherman

10-26-2006, 07:20 AM

Death Metal Moe wrote: I don't know why people can't just get it that we're a cosmic accident.  Our existence isn't preordained by any greater power.  There's no one up there.Quoted for truth.  I like that, "cosmic accident".  What makes people cringe at that thought is the human ego, molded by beliefs when they are young.Given enough time, there are an infinate number of possibilities of existence.

grlNIN

10-26-2006, 07:21 AM

Death Metal Moe wrote: Religion and thoughts of "God" are for the weak. I'm not an overtly religious person. I don't agree with a lot of the beliefs and practices in my religion but i'm also not an atheist or agnostic but i do find slight offense with your statement.I don't think believing in a religion or "higher power" is any different than believing in absolutely nothing. What i mean by that is...it takes just as much confidence and certainty to put faith into an idea of God as it does to put it into an idea of no God.I hope that makes sense, 'cause i'm leaving this thread before i get jumped. 

This message was edited by grlNIN on 10-26-06 @ 11:23 AM

Death Metal Moe

10-26-2006, 07:28 AM

It's a lot harder to sit in your bed at night and think "I know I'm on my own and I am the only one who will change my way in life" than it is to think "There's some omnipotant being who is looking out for me."  It's also a lot harder to know when you're dead, you're dead than to think "I've got a nice place waiting for me with all my relatives I love."Religion is a crutch.  Not saying it to offend or be SHOCKING, just my opinion.  And I've backed up my opinion.

TheQuestion

10-26-2006, 07:29 AM

Furtherman wrote: Death Metal Moe wrote: I don't know why people can't just get it that we're a cosmic accident. Our existence isn't preordained by any greater power. There's no one up there.Quoted for truth. I like that, "cosmic accident". What makes people cringe at that thought is the human ego, molded by beliefs when they are young.Given enough time, there are an infinate number of possibilities of existence. So you believe that there's an absolute, definite "truth" but you're the only one intelligent enough to know it? Sounds suspiciously like the side you're against.

grlNIN

10-26-2006, 07:38 AM

I'm not saying one is harder than the other. I've personally never layed in bed and thought about whether or not there is a God, i just think about the fact that i'm tired and i want to sleep.Maybe it's just me but the way i look at it always is that you can believe in whatever you want, for whatever reason you want there's really no need to go through life in fear, questioning if your soul is going to be damned for eternity...it does nothing for you. I just find absolutely no point in critiquing others' lifestyle and religious affiliations. Discussions are cool but they always end up heated and blown way out of porportion. Religion shouldn't be that taboo of a subject but i don't think a majority of people can approach it with an open mind.

blakjeezis

10-26-2006, 07:38 AM

A great book, fictional that is, on this topic is The Life of Pi. I recommend it to anyone who's ever even momentarily contemplated the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being. It's not gonna give you any answers, but it will make you think about it. A lot. It's also the source of one of my favorite quotes on the subject. So, without further ado, I present to you, uncut and in its entirety, Chapter 22 of Yann Martel's Life of Pi "I can well imagine an atheist’s last words: 'White, white! L-L-Love! My God!'—and
the deathbed leap of faith. Whereas the agnostic, if he stays true to
his reasonable self, if he stays beholden to dry, yeastless factuality,
might try to explain the warm light bathing him by saying, “Possibly a f-f-failing oxygenation of the b-b-brain,’ and to the very end, lack imagination and miss the better story." 

This message was edited by blakjeezis on 10-26-06 @ 11:43 AM

Death Metal Moe

10-26-2006, 07:44 AM

grlNIN wrote: Maybe it's just me but the way i look at it always is that you can believe in whatever you want, for whatever reason you want there's really no need to go through life in fear, questioning if your soul is going to be damned for eternity...it does nothing for you. And I think you should be able to believe whatever you want too.  I'm not shoving my beliefs on anyone.  I have NEVER been given a fucking "Good News" pamphlet by an athiest or agnostic.  I've never been bothered at my house by someone who DIDN'T have a religion to sell me.  I've never heard of athiests blowing shit up becase no one agrees with them.These are the reasons I hate religion but I still think Americans should have the freedom to worship as they please.  I just wish they'd keep it to themselves, and most importantly, keep religion out of my motherfucking government.

Furtherman

10-26-2006, 08:04 AM

TheQuestion wrote: Furtherman wrote: Death Metal Moe wrote: I don't know why people can't just get it that we're a cosmic accident. Our existence isn't preordained by any greater power. There's no one up there.Quoted for truth. I like that, "cosmic accident". What makes people cringe at that thought is the human ego, molded by beliefs when they are young.Given enough time, there are an infinate number of possibilities of existence. So you believe that there's an absolute, definite "truth" but you're the only one intelligent enough to know it? Well, yea.  I mean, c'mon....  DUH!  Obviously! Seriously, I do see your point, but the fact remains if you weren't taught it when you were young, then it wouldn't resonate with you today.  That makes the whole concept of a "greater being" fallible.  Even now, I'll still say "Oh my god!" or "Jesus Christ!" when I'm suprised at something.  It's hard to stop saying it because it is embedded in my, and most everyone elses, psyche.But, if we were living in Roman times, we'd say "Oh my Apollo!" or we were Vikings we'd say "Oh my Thor!"  Not exactly, but along those lines. There have been thousands of civilizations with thousands of gods.  Most people of those civilations were as sure as most people today that the god they were told about, passed down from their family before, was the one true god.  Most gods had stories of divine intervention, human contact and a glorious return.  Yet those gods never made a sound.  And everyone of those civilations died, with the last survivors wondering, where is god?  Why was this allowed to happen?What makes anyone think that the current god, of the christian, muslim, jewish, lutherian, etc, sects will be any different?  What makes YOU so special that when you say "Oh my god", he hears YOU?I thinks it is illogical to give any amount of time and especially money to any organized religion.  Because you'd be better off using that hour or so a week to helping others or yourself.  Or doing nothing!  That may seem like a waste, but there is nothing wrong with it.

burrben

10-26-2006, 08:05 AM

"i have a great love and respect for religion, great love and respect for atheism. what i hate is agnosticism, people who do not choose." orson welles <img height="343" src="http://www.poster.net/welles-orson/welles-orson-photo-orson-welles-6206445.jpg" width="430" border="0" />

A.J.

10-26-2006, 08:08 AM

Furtherman wrote: But, if we were living in Roman times, we'd say "Oh my Apollo!" or we were Vikings we'd say "Oh my Thor!"  Not exactly, but along those lines.  "By the Gods" perhaps.

SouthSideJohnny

10-26-2006, 08:59 AM

blakjeezis wrote: "I can well imagine an atheist’s last words: 'White, white! L-L-Love! My God!'—and
the deathbed leap of faith. Whereas the agnostic, if he stays true to
his reasonable self, if he stays beholden to dry, yeastless factuality,
might try to explain the warm light bathing him by saying, “Possibly a f-f-failing oxygenation of the b-b-brain,’ and to the very end, lack imagination and miss the better story." 

This message was edited by blakjeezis on 10-26-06 @ 11:43 AM    Blakjeezis - Is the whole book like that?  That quote gave me a headache.

Death Metal Moe

10-26-2006, 09:52 AM

Furtherman wrote: Well, yea.  I mean, c'mon....  DUH!  Obviously! Seriously, I do see your point, but the fact remains if you weren't taught it when you were young, then it wouldn't resonate with you today.  That makes the whole concept of a "greater being" fallible.  Even now, I'll still say "Oh my god!" or "Jesus Christ!" when I'm suprised at something.  It's hard to stop saying it because it is embedded in my, and most everyone elses, psyche.But, if we were living in Roman times, we'd say "Oh my Apollo!" or we were Vikings we'd say "Oh my Thor!"  Not exactly, but along those lines. There have been thousands of civilizations with thousands of gods.  Most people of those civilations were as sure as most people today that the god they were told about, passed down from their family before, was the one true god.  Most gods had stories of divine intervention, human contact and a glorious return.  Yet those gods never made a sound.  And everyone of those civilations died, with the last survivors wondering, where is god?  Why was this allowed to happen?What makes anyone think that the current god, of the christian, muslim, jewish, lutherian, etc, sects will be any different?  What makes YOU so special that when you say "Oh my god", he hears YOU?I thinks it is illogical to give any amount of time and especially money to any organized religion.  Because you'd be better off using that hour or so a week to helping others or yourself.  Or doing nothing!  That may seem like a waste, but there is nothing wrong with it.Sums up a lot of how I feel too.  The fucking arrogance of people today to be SO SURE their God is the RIGHT God.  And then the way this CHristian church worships is more right than that Christian church.  It's mind-numingly arrogant.

IamFogHat

10-26-2006, 10:05 AM

I used to be an agnostic atheist but in the last year or two I've really found myself a straight up atheist.

FUNKMAN

10-26-2006, 10:25 AM

AngelAmy wrote: i worship the almighty funkman44ffe <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wub.gif" border="0" />Angel Amy is my heaven and my sunshine on a cloudy day!44ffe <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/wub.gif" border="0" />

ChimneyFish

10-26-2006, 11:43 AM

I believe there is a creative force/energy. I don't believe death is the end. I don't believe any man, woman or child has ever known or will know exactly what it is prior to death.(therefore all religions are wrong)If I didn't believe in some sort of cosequences for your actions(not exactly heaven and hell, but something), I would have no reason to not do heroin. If this is all I have, why not do what I need to do to feel really good everyday????I just think there has to be more.If I'm wrong, oh well. I've been madly in love. I haved had fantastic sex. And I've done the best drugs in the world.I have no intrest in marriage. I'll have to agree with Ronny that babies are the worst STD of all. I hate children. So, whatever.<img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/happy.gif" border="0" />

narc

10-26-2006, 12:21 PM

Furtherman wrote: TheQuestion wrote: Furtherman wrote: Death Metal Moe wrote: I don't know why people can't just get it that we're a cosmic accident. Our existence isn't preordained by any greater power. There's no one up there.Quoted for truth. I like that, "cosmic accident". What makes people cringe at that thought is the human ego, molded by beliefs when they are young.Given enough time, there are an infinate number of possibilities of existence. So you believe that there's an absolute, definite "truth" but you're the only one intelligent enough to know it? Well, yea. I mean, c'mon.... DUH! Obviously! Seriously, I do see your point, but the fact remains if you weren't taught it when you were young, then it wouldn't resonate with you today. That makes the whole concept of a "greater being" fallible. Even now, I'll still say "Oh my god!" or "Jesus Christ!" when I'm suprised at something. It's hard to stop saying it because it is embedded in my, and most everyone elses, psyche.But, if we were living in Roman times, we'd say "Oh my Apollo!" or we were Vikings we'd say "Oh my Thor!" Not exactly, but along those lines. There have been thousands of civilizations with thousands of gods. Most people of those civilations were as sure as most people today that the god they were told about, passed down from their family before, was the one true god. Most gods had stories of divine intervention, human contact and a glorious return. Yet those gods never made a sound. And everyone of those civilations died, with the last survivors wondering, where is god? Why was this allowed to happen?What makes anyone think that the current god, of the christian, muslim, jewish, lutherian, etc, sects will be any different? What makes YOU so special that when you say "Oh my god", he hears YOU?I thinks it is illogical to give any amount of time and especially money to any organized religion. Because you'd be better off using that hour or so a week to helping others or yourself. Or doing nothing! That may seem like a waste, but there is nothing wrong with it.  That's not actually true. The Greeks and Romans never really developed the deep seated belief in their gods that everyone thinks they did. By the time Socrates rolled around the jig was definitely up. Sure, they still had their ceremonies, but they were more trappings of the state than anything else - like going to a July 4th parade. The Romans even more so; they may never have really believed in their gods. It was just a way of being part of the state so that everyone didn't think you were a weirdo.But people still felt like they needed a more direct and personal way to worship - a personal and intimate connection to the divine. And something that not just "anyone" could do - it had to be sort of like an exclusive club that reaffirmed its members beliefs of how special they were. People converted to Judaism in droves during this time period because it offered that. People also joined mystery cults devoted to various gods or mythological heros - Orpheus, Mithra, etc., a lot of whose beliefs looked a lot like what Christianity has become.   But unlike what you say, most Gods didn't have divine intervention, human contact and a glorious return, at least originally. Some of the ones of whom cults developed around certainly did, but this only happened later, and people made it up basically because they felt like they were missing something. But it certainly wasn't most gods. When Christianity came around it was the perfect compromise - it offered that dee

Furtherman

10-26-2006, 12:28 PM

narc wrote:  That's not actually true. The Greeks and Romans never really developed the deep seated belief in their gods that everyone thinks they did. By the time Socrates rolled around the jig was definitely up. Sure, they still had their ceremonies, but they were more trappings of the state than anything else - like going to a July 4th parade. The Romans even more so; they may never have really believed in their gods. It was just a way of being part of the state so that everyone didn't think you were a weirdo.But people still felt like they needed a more direct and personal way to worship - a personal and intimate connection to the divine. And something that not just "anyone" could do - it had to be sort of like an exclusive club that reaffirmed its members beliefs of how special they were. People converted to Judaism in droves during this time period because it offered that. People also joined mystery cults devoted to various gods or mythological heros - Orpheus, Mithra, etc., a lot of whose beliefs looked a lot like what Christianity has become.   But unlike what you say, most Gods didn't have divine intervention, human contact and a glorious return, at least originally. Some of the ones of whom cults developed around certainly did, but this only happened later, and people made it up basically because they felt like they were missing something. But it certainly wasn't most gods. When Christianity came around it was the perfect compromise - it offered that deep personal connection to the divine without being as regionally or ethnically limited (and eventually politically dangerous) as converting to Judaism, and it lost a lot of the weird and scary cultic rituals. Hell, you didn't even have to be circumcised. How does this apply to today? If you want to be an Atheist or Agnostic, and you don't need to feel that personal and intimate connection to the divine, then that's fine. But there are plenty of people who feel like they need that in their lives. Don't hate.  Well put sir, but I do disagree with some of your historical points, however, besides that, I'll agree that yes, there are people who need that connection.  I only wish everyone would keep that connection to themselves.  I don't hate, I just feel sad when so much is depended on it.

Dougie Brootal

10-26-2006, 12:42 PM

Lunakid23

10-27-2006, 11:23 AM

So who created god? Read some Richard dawkins, maybe you can steer from your god delusion. Your asking the wrong questions, nobody created the sky, no body created a babies face. At the moment we have no theory of why there is "something" compared to "nothing" It could be as simple as nothing does not exist outside the universe, no one created it , it has always been, the saem can be said with time outside the universe. It may be hard to picture, but outside the universe is incomprehensible to the human mind. So its safe to say there is no god, or any "greater purpose".

This message was edited by Lunakid23 on 10-27-06 @ 3:30 PM

FUNKMAN

10-27-2006, 11:26 AM

Do You Believe in God? i'll whisper it in your ear after i die...

ChimneyFish

10-27-2006, 12:09 PM

Lunakid23 wrote: So who created god? <img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c217/luxa1/max.jpg" border="0" />Who made who????

torker

10-27-2006, 02:15 PM

Lunakid23 wrote: So who created god? Read some Richard dawkins, maybe you can steer from your god delusion. Your asking the wrong questions, nobody created the sky, no body created a babies face. At the moment we have no theory of why there is "something" compared to "nothing" It could be as simple as nothing does not exist outside the universe, no one created it , it has always been, the saem can be said with time outside the universe. It may be hard to picture, but outside the universe is incomprehensible to the human mind. So its safe to say there is no god, or any "greater purpose".

This message was edited by torker on 10-27-06 @ 6:20 PM

torker

10-27-2006, 02:22 PM

<img height="150" src="http://www.hogansheroesfanclub.com/images/photoNewkirkSmall.gif" width="143" border="0" />I love his older, funny work.

Crispy123

07-05-2007, 11:59 AM

First, Reeshy Im sorry for your loss.

God is a word. Vocabulary is basically man-made, expressions of thought into sound. So is God man-made? If God is an idea then can it be based on fact? To many questions without possible answers, an excuse to argue.

I am not in control of my life. I react to situations that present themselves. However, I have a purpose and that is to find out why. I enjoy futility but I also think life has a purpose. I try to understand things and not to dismiss them.

I am of the opinion you go all in. I don't agree with all aspects of any man-made religion. I, however, don't consider myself an Atheist. I do think Atheists exist. I think evil exists. So why not goodness and purity? If you believe in darkness then surely there must also be light.

Gods of Fake Mobsters= Chris
Gods of HardRocks= Johnny
Gods of Internets= Mikeyboy
Gods of Radio=Ron&Fez

Nothing Sound

07-05-2007, 12:01 PM

No, I do not believe in God.

ppanda

07-05-2007, 03:09 PM

Nope- I'm a recovering catholic

Crispy123

07-05-2007, 03:32 PM

http://www.host.metallus.it/gom/gods/gom2005_2.gif

ppanda

07-05-2007, 09:10 PM

http://www.host.metallus.it/gom/gods/gom2005_2.gif

Holy shit- This is the best booking ever...if I was still in high school.
Who am I Kidding- I would have still fuckin go to this.

Fat_Sunny

07-05-2007, 09:23 PM

Kevin

07-05-2007, 09:35 PM

Sorry To Divert Away From Iron Maiden And Back To God (Although That Poster Is Spectacular), But...

Here Is What Gets Fat_Sunny: He Is Extremely Smart And Well Educated. Yet, He Can Barely Draw A Passable "Stick Figure", Much Less Design A Working Anything.

So If A Really Smart Human Being Cannot Design A Simple Thing, How Is He To Believe That 10,000 Trillion Complicated Life Forms Were "Designed" Without Any Intelligence Whatsoever?

F_S Just Cannot Accept The Notion That Complicated Life Forms Were Created By A Process Without Intelligence. Although F_S Believes 100% In Evolution, He Cannot Believe That There Is Not Intelligence Behind It.

And F_S Is NOT A Hayseed.

Ron basically said it perfect.. This is a being whole split atoms, Created Life, Water etc etc.. What makes you think your smart enough to be on the same level as he is in order to understand him/her.. You just cant.. I believe in God.. And i believe we are on this earth to be tested and to learn.. I believe in multiple lives, Where you get to live out the mistakes you make in past lives.. Say for example, You were bad to a group of people (Poor. Color) You live your next life as that person.. You do not know it.. But your soul is like a hard drive and stores things.. He/she makes you have money to test you on you act.. And i Feel when you passed all of those tests.. Your allowed into another realm.. Heaven, Nirvana, whatever.. All you can do is try to be the best person you can be.. And the rest.. You really have no control of, so why really bother??

epo

07-05-2007, 09:41 PM

Epo to shock the world! Alright, this will probably be my most intimate post ever. First of, despite my liberalism, I do infact believe in a God. However I was taught....

First of that we live in a very diverse world and that my Christian God (Lutheran actually...Martin Luther like Fezzie...) is no better than Catholism, Hindu, Muslim or Native American Gods...they are all equally valid and that all men are created with an equal opportunity to celebrate their deity.

I completely believe in science as an explainable force in the universe, in fact those details should not be questioned. The "works of God" have all been written by man and are to be explained as parables for which we are to except as figurative. Maybe God's seven days meant 700 million years....no biggie...he took his time and man (who is fallable didn't explain it right.)

However we do live in an "Age of Grace" and this I have always taken very liberally. I believe our religious institutions are broken as man (especially in an isolated modern era) seeks the accompanyment of a God in a crowd. I however have no problem celebrating God in my timeframe and at my increments. Our relationship is nobody else's business.

Furthermore I seek enlightment in other texts. This is a natural quest to seek knowledge. My favorite texts are those of Far Eastern backing, those written by Lao Tzu for their simplicity.

I've always thought that God just wants me to fulfill my abilities and to be the best person that I can be. I can't explain God, rather I can only explain my existence.

Fat_Sunny

07-05-2007, 09:42 PM

Ron basically said it perfect.. This is a being whole split atoms, Created Life, Water etc etc.. What makes you think your smart enough to be on the same level as he is in order to understand him/her.. You just cant.. I believe in God.. And i believe we are on this earth to be tested and to learn.. I believe in multiple lives, Where you get to live out the mistakes you make in past lives.. Say for example, You were bad to a group of people (Poor. Color) You live your next life as that person.. You do not know it.. But your soul is like a hard drive and stores things.. He/she makes you have money to test you on you act.. And i Feel when you passed all of those tests.. Your allowed into another realm.. Heaven, Nirvana, whatever.. All you can do is try to be the best person you can be.. And the rest.. You really have no control of, so why really bother??

Well That's Odd, Because That Is Exactly What F_S Believes. Re-Incarnation Is The Only Thing That Makes Suffering 100% Understandable. Now F_S Likes Kevin Even More.

fohat

07-05-2007, 09:42 PM

Fat_Sunny

07-05-2007, 09:51 PM

I do not believe in a "supreme being" anymore

Back when i was a kid and was impressionable, I was taught for several years these beliefs about God as I grew up methodist and went to catholic schools. Then one day something happened that I don't want to go into, suffice to say that I very quickly changed my mind. I believe I was 16 at the time.

Flash Forward:

I believe that we are all part of the same energy and when we die, any energy left over goes back into the pool.

That's about the best I can do to describe it at this late drunken hour.

As the great John Lennon once sang, God is a concept.

Yes, But What If "God" Is Just That Energy? And What If That Energy Has Intelligence, And Creativity?

Evolution And "Conciousness" Or "God" Are Not Mutually-Exclusive.

F_S Has Never Believed In A Father-Figure God In Heavan, But Rather Just A Big Pool Of Conciousness Who Set The Rules And Then We Do The Rest, Eventually Working Our Way Back Into The Pool.

Bottom LIne: F_S Cannot Explain The Universe, And Life, And Emotions And Thought, WIthout Bringing Another Force Into The Equation.

CofyCrakCocaine

07-05-2007, 10:00 PM

Yes, But What If "God" Is Just That Energy? And What If That Energy Has Intelligence, And Creativity?

Evolution And "Conciousness" Or "God" Are Not Mutually-Exclusive.

F_S Has Never Believed In A Father-Figure God In Heavan, But Rather Just A Big Pool Of Conciousness Who Set The Rules And Then We Do The Rest, Eventually Working Our Way Back Into The Pool.

Bottom LIne: F_S Cannot Explain The Universe, And Life, And Emotions And Thought, WIthout Bringing Another Force Into The Equation.

I believe life, like every other thing, is a random game of chance involving mixtures and reactions. Much like my dating life! But I am a simple human being... and I am an agnostic. I do not believe mankind will ever be able to fathom a higher intelligence if it is out there... we spend too much time slaughtering one another over minor details such as 'the bread IS his body, no the bread is just a SYMBOL of his body'. If I were a divine being, I'd have forsaken this stupid race a long time ago. But then again, I'm only human. What'd I know about being divine? :tongue:

I believe in respecting and delighting in everyone's unique way of seeing things...as there are many fundamental "truths" in most religions that soothe the human heart...and the soul, if there is one. Which I kinda believe there is.

fohat

07-05-2007, 10:00 PM

Yes, But What If "God" Is Just That Energy? And What If That Energy Has Intelligence, And Creativity?

Evolution And "Conciousness" Or "God" Are Not Mutually-Exclusive.

F_S Has Never Believed In A Father-Figure God In Heavan, But Rather Just A Big Pool Of Conciousness Who Set The Rules And Then We Do The Rest, Eventually Working Our Way Back Into The Pool.

Bottom LIne: F_S Cannot Explain The Universe, And Life, And Emotions And Thought, WIthout Bringing Another Force Into The Equation.

What brought the first molecules together? Was it god or an electrical force? You can call the electrical force god, or you can call it Herman, or whatever you wish really. That's the great part. It's all an illusion. The universe moves forward in a linear fashion. Does god make it do that, or does it go on it's own, or does god just want everyone to think it goes on its own?

The idea that there is some kind of ultimate entity in charge of everything is certainly appealing. I prefer to think that everything is random, and that there is enough randomness that these things called "coincidences" occur and make us start to wonder if there is an intelligent force behind it. Of course there is, we are the intelligent force behind our actions.

I'm gonna quit now so I don't start rambling :)

Fat_Sunny

07-05-2007, 10:15 PM

If It Is Random, How Can There Be "Laws"? To Be Laws, Must There Not be A Law Giver?? How Can You Have Rules, If No One Has Set Rules?

fohat

07-06-2007, 03:56 AM

If It Is Random, How Can There Be "Laws"? To Be Laws, Must There Not be A Law Giver?? How Can You Have Rules, If No One Has Set Rules?

I'm more talking about events when I use the word random.
As far as the forces that hold the Earth together and that sort of thing, I don't see why there has to be something or someone that said Ok, we are going to have these round things that go around other round things that create gravity and some of the round things will have oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere etc etc.

Here's the best thing I can quote to sum up what I was just trying to say and typed out several different versions of: "We are all made of stars"

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qdb4NyHdFfE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qdb4NyHdFfE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Crispy123

07-06-2007, 04:32 AM

And F_S Is NOT A Hayseed.

Maybe not geographically. :wink:

All you can do is try to be the best person you can be.. And the rest.. You really have no control of, so why really bother??

I think its in our DNA to try and find the answers to unanswered questions. Why are we here? Who put us here? There are definitely more hits than misses when we try to answer these questions, but I think we all ask them.

I can't explain God, rather I can only explain my existence.

This is an intelligent statement and one that I agree with 110%.

I believe life, like every other thing, is a random game of chance involving mixtures and reactions. Much like my dating life! But I am a simple human being... and I am an agnostic.

I can understand this point of view and think most people who do not identify themselves with a single religion think this way. I believe Atheism, where you truly and absolutely do not believe in anything "greater" than yourself, is very rare.

Here's the best thing I can quote to sum up what I was just trying to say and typed out several different versions of: "We are all made of stars"

Another intelligent statement and one I agree with. Oneness is something I definitely believe in. I can't say life is an illusion but I think at some point everything was one and at another point in time we will all go back to being one.

Midkiff

07-06-2007, 05:33 AM

no god

Friday

07-06-2007, 06:20 AM

no god

god

ahem (edit)... goddess

Kevin

07-06-2007, 06:27 AM

god

ahem (edit)... goddess

http://graysmatter.codivation.com/content/binary/zoolander_face.jpg MER MAN... MERRRMAN..

Sorry.. I don't know why i thought of that just now..

Jughead

07-06-2007, 06:31 AM

Yes...I'm not real good at expressing myself...:innocent:

Furtherman

07-06-2007, 07:00 AM

Do You Believe in God?

Nope.

And it opens my mind to all different cultures and beliefs. I strenghtens my belief in family and friends. In a dire situation, for example, you need a glass of water, just to live, what is the more logical truth, to ask your fellow man or to pray? People say they have "faith", yet rarely would would be open to discussion of another belief or cause by their fellow human being simply because they weren't born in the same place and therefore programmed differently. That's all god is, a belief system that is installed in children. A relic of humankind's early evolution, that has held on through power and preachers.

One of the best reasonings I've ever read on the subject was presented by Penn Jillette. Not the first person I would go if called upon to address the subject, but then again, the reasoning is so simple and brilliant that a man who uses magic to entertain and fool people can easily remark on the magic that entertained and fooled people for too long.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.