View Full Version : The Sarah Connor Chronicles
Furtherman
09-07-2006, 01:49 PM
<p>FOX is going to air a show that follows the adventures of Sarah and John Connor after Terminator 2.</p><p>From <a href="http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=16378" target="_blank">Commingsoon.net</a>:</p><p><font face="arial" color="#000000" size="2">CHUD got a chance to talk to Josh Friedman, executive producer and writer of Fox's upcoming "Terminator"-themed series, "The Sarah Connor Chronicles." <br /><br />The series revolves around Connor and her savior son, John Connor. The series will explore what happened to Sarah Connor after the end of <strong>Terminator 2: Judgment Day</strong>, when the character went on the run.<br /><br />Here's a clip from the interview:<br /><br /><em>"I would like to be able to explore as many different avenues of Terminator mythology as possible," he told me. "I think to do a show that is a completely Terminator-less environment would probably not be, in the long run, a wise move or the most interesting thing."</em><br /><br />Visit the link for more of the interview. Filming is expected to begin early next year in New Mexico.</font><br /></p><p>Could it work? A Terminator is hard to kill. Even harder when you're on the run in Mexico.</p><p>Drop him into a vat of tequilla!</p>
lleeder
09-07-2006, 01:54 PM
I know what some of the plot lines are . <em>Episode 1: Sarah meets and blows James Cameron. Episode 2: They get married. Episode 3: James Cameron declares he is King of the world. Episode 4: Cancelled</em>
Sheeplovr
09-07-2006, 02:01 PM
<p>wait so it this the alternet universe that leads to the 3rd movie or is it going to be a whole nother time line </p><p>this is confusing </p>
cougarjake13
09-07-2006, 02:27 PM
<p>the whole problem is they could keep going back and forth changing the future</p><p>lets say on jan 2 1992 the terminator comes back and sucessfully kills sarah or john, people from the future would know the result imediately, and send back someone to protect and save them</p><p>then the robots/computers from the future would also know that result immediately and send back a terminator again, this could go on for ions</p>
Furtherman
09-07-2006, 02:30 PM
I was terminated from my job because I was watching Terminator on my PC.... and my head exploded!
I think it is pretty arrogant of them to use Terminator and mythology in the same sentence.
jimmyNYC
09-07-2006, 03:20 PM
<p> </p><strong>cougarjake13</strong> wrote:<br /><p>the whole problem is they could keep going back and forth changing the future</p><p>lets say on jan 2 1992 the terminator comes back and sucessfully kills sarah or john, people from the future would know the result imediately, and send back someone to protect and save them</p><p>then the robots/computers from the future would also know that result immediately and send back a terminator again, this could go on for ions</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>people in the future wouldnt notice a difference because he wasnt around. once he is killed in the past everything he ever did or everyone he ever met would not exist because he wasnt around to make it happen. theyre reality would be one in which john conner never started the resistance.</p><p> </p><p>and its eons not ions </p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by jimmyNYC on 9-7-06 @ 7:23 PM</span>
FUNKMAN
09-07-2006, 04:08 PM
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">CHUD got a chance to talk to Josh Friedman</font></p><p>did he eat him afterwards?</p><p><img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004Y6BC.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056677095_.jpg" border="0" /></p>
Fallon
09-07-2006, 07:43 PM
<p> </p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br />I was terminated from my job because I was watching Terminator on my PC.... and my head exploded!<p> </p><p> </p><p><img border="0" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" /> </p>
JamMaster
09-07-2006, 11:28 PM
<strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><font face="Arial" size="2">CHUD got a chance to talk to Josh Friedman</font> <p> </p><p>did he eat him afterwards?</p><p><img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004Y6BC.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056677095_.jpg" border="0" /></p><p>Damn it... I wanted to say that...lol</p>
JustJon
09-08-2006, 06:36 AM
I never understood why they didn't send the Terminator back to the 1800s and just wipe out the Connor lineage earlier on. They failed in the 1980s, so they send one to the 1990s, where Sarah Connor now knows about them and is ready for them?<br />
cougarjake13
09-08-2006, 07:06 AM
<strong>JustJon</strong> wrote:<br />I never understood why they didn't send the Terminator back to the 1800s and just wipe out the Connor lineage earlier on. They failed in the 1980s, so they send one to the 1990s, where Sarah Connor now knows about them and is ready for them?<br /><p>yeh i never got that either, they could have just sent another terminator back to the same timeframe or earlier</p><p>but for obvious movie idea and sequel reasons they couldnt just rehash the same story again and hope it makes money</p><p>as for the earlier time 1800's didnt they say in the movie that a lot of the records were destroyed in the war and that they only info they had on her was that there were 3 sarah connors living in (i forget where they lived in the movie) in 1984 and thats all they had to go on ?</p>
FMJeff
09-08-2006, 07:14 AM
<strong>JustJon</strong> wrote:<br />I never understood why they didn't send the Terminator back to the 1800s and just wipe out the Connor lineage earlier on. They failed in the 1980s, so they send one to the 1990s, where Sarah Connor now knows about them and is ready for them?<br /><p>I thuoght about that too. </p>The answer I came up with is inevitability. It is a theme throughout the films and applies to both man and machine alike. The machines could no more end the Connor line than the Connors could prevent Judgement Day.
Tenbatsuzen
09-08-2006, 07:34 AM
<p> </p><strong>JustJon</strong> wrote:<br />I never understood why they didn't send the Terminator back to the 1800s and just wipe out the Connor lineage earlier on. They failed in the 1980s, so they send one to the 1990s, where Sarah Connor now knows about them and is ready for them?<br /><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Simple enough: Skynet didn't have enough data due to everything being destroyed via Judgment day to go back that far. Plus, Connor is such a common name, and since exact record keeping didn't become commonplace until the the advent of more modern computers in the late 70's/early 80's, when Skynet could get a general fix on where Sarah was going to be.</p><p> </p><p>Remember - with all the records destroyed due to Judgment day, and with Sarah still being alive in the holocaust aftermath, that's the only thing Skynet had to go on.</p><p> </p><p> </p>
Doctor Manhattan
09-08-2006, 08:14 AM
<strong>FMJeff</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>JustJon</strong> wrote:<br />I never understood why they didn't send the Terminator back to the 1800s and just wipe out the Connor lineage earlier on. They failed in the 1980s, so they send one to the 1990s, where Sarah Connor now knows about them and is ready for them?<br /><p>I thuoght about that too. </p>The answer I came up with is inevitability. It is a theme throughout the films and applies to both man and machine alike. The machines could no more end the Connor line than the Connors could prevent Judgement Day. <p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">I thought that was the theme for the 3rd film.</font></p><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">In the original and T2 the theme seemed to be "<em>The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves</em>."</font></p>
Furtherman
09-08-2006, 08:21 AM
<strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">In the original and T2 the theme seemed to be "<em>The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves</em>."</font></p><p>I thought the theme was "There's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you."<br /></p>
Tenbatsuzen
09-08-2006, 08:23 AM
<p> </p><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font size="3" face="times new roman,times,serif">In the original and T2 the theme seemed to be "<em>The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves</em>."</font></p><p>I thought the theme was "There's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you."<br /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>See, I thought the theme was, "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in awhile, you could miss it."</p><p> </p><p> </p>
Doctor Manhattan
09-08-2006, 08:25 AM
<strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">In the original and T2 the theme seemed to be "<em>The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves</em>."</font></p><p>I thought the theme was "There's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you."<br /></p><p>So, bring lasagna to someone at work = good</p><p>bring a cake to someone at work = bad, according to Kevin Smith.</p>
Tenbatsuzen
09-08-2006, 08:27 AM
<p> </p><strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Furtherman</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>Doctor Manhattan</strong> wrote:<br /><p><font size="3" face="times new roman,times,serif">In the original and T2 the theme seemed to be "<em>The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves</em>."</font></p><p>I thought the theme was "There's a million fine looking women in the world, dude. But they don't all bring you lasagna at work. Most of 'em just cheat on you."<br /></p><p>So, bring lasagna to someone at work = good</p><p>bring a cake to someone at work = bad, according to Kevin Smith.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>But see, she wasn't right for him!!!! It's all about Beckyyyyyyyyy!!!! (/smith fanboy defense)</p><p> </p>
Bulldogcakes
09-08-2006, 03:44 PM
<p>I'll guess that Linda Hamilton cant pull off looking 25 anymore. Any mention of who's playing her role?</p><p>And if not, any suggestions?</p><p>I'll say Charlize Theron<br /></p>
furie
09-08-2006, 04:40 PM
this could be worse than battlestar galactica 1980
Tenbatsuzen
09-08-2006, 04:41 PM
<p> </p><strong>furie</strong> wrote:<br />this could be worse than battlestar galactica 1980<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong><font size="5">THAT.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="5"> </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="5">NEVER.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="5"> </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="5">EXISTED.</font></strong></p><p> </p><p>You hear me? IT NEVER EXISTED. Barry Van Dyke was an unemployed actor before Airwolf!</p><p> </p><p> </p>
MadMatt
09-08-2006, 04:52 PM
<strong>Tenbatsuzen</strong> wrote: <strong>JustJon</strong> wrote:<br />I never understood why they didn't send the Terminator back to the 1800s and just wipe out the Connor lineage earlier on. They failed in the 1980s, so they send one to the 1990s, where Sarah Connor now knows about them and is ready for them?<br /><p>Simple enough: Skynet didn't have enough data due to everything being destroyed via Judgment day to go back that far. Plus, Connor is such a common name, and since exact record keeping didn't become commonplace until the the advent of more modern computers in the late 70's/early 80's, when Skynet could get a general fix on where Sarah was going to be.</p><p>Remember - with all the records destroyed due to Judgment day, and with Sarah still being alive in the holocaust aftermath, that's the only thing Skynet had to go on.</p><p>Was there also a power issue? I don't know where I got that impression, but it explains why skynet could only transport the first Terminator to 1985, the second to 1991, and the third to 2003; there was only enough power available to reach that far back (1985), then they could only reach '91, etc. After that the resistance took over and destroyed the time machine.</p><p>Of course the "not enough info" explanation makes the most sense, but I heard this as an alternate/parallel reason, esp. for why skynet didn't send multiple terminators to the same time (such as sending the second terminator to help the first).</p>
MadMatt
09-08-2006, 04:54 PM
<strong>Tenbatsuzen</strong> wrote: <strong>furie</strong> wrote:<br />this could be worse than battlestar galactica 1980 <p><strong><font size="5">THAT.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="5">NEVER.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="5">EXISTED.</font></strong></p><p>You hear me? IT NEVER EXISTED. Barry Van Dyke was an unemployed actor before Airwolf!</p><p><font size="3">There was an earlier Battlestar Galactica?</font></p>
Furtherman
11-16-2007, 10:02 AM
http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-Q5w4NI/AAAAAAAAMzw/FGavbafY0Co/s400/Image+1.jpghttp://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-g5w4OI/AAAAAAAAMz4/WwnBT7yd-HI/s400/Image+1.jpg
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-g5w4PI/AAAAAAAAM0A/_SmdScfBrNE/s400/Image+1.jpghttp://bp1.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-w5w4QI/AAAAAAAAM0I/NBW-7lOreps/s400/Image+1.jpg
cougarjake13
11-16-2007, 05:11 PM
http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-Q5w4NI/AAAAAAAAMzw/FGavbafY0Co/s400/Image+1.jpghttp://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-g5w4OI/AAAAAAAAMz4/WwnBT7yd-HI/s400/Image+1.jpg
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-g5w4PI/AAAAAAAAM0A/_SmdScfBrNE/s400/Image+1.jpghttp://bp1.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RzyN-w5w4QI/AAAAAAAAM0I/NBW-7lOreps/s400/Image+1.jpg
so a hot chick terminator to go with a hot sarah connor
nice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
patsopinion
11-16-2007, 05:30 PM
im in for sure
to answer the time travel question they can only go back x years each time they travel and they cant send stuff back before they sent the first one or they might touch in the time slip tunnel during the first's active time in the past
and there is an indeterminate amount of time between actual time slips due the high power cost
and that was only one of many different things the terminators were doing to try to kill them
i mean there was a war going on
and this wasnt considered a nuke, only a mission that could have some upside
after all there would be other eventual leaders that would emerge
fezident
11-16-2007, 10:40 PM
I never understood why they didn't send the Terminator back to the 1800s and just wipe out the Connor lineage earlier on. They failed in the 1980s, so they send one to the 1990s, where Sarah Connor now knows about them and is ready for them?<br />
I totally agree with your statement.
I've often wondered why the Terminators of the future didn't just send a T-1000 back to when John was, say, 3 years old. Or... back to a time when Sarah was just a baby?
Or for that matter... why not send back TWO Terminators and just f'cking do the thing?
PS: Here's a clip:
<a href="http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=20805576">Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles- Clip 4</a><br><embed src="http://lads.myspace.com/videos/vplayer.swf" flashvars="m=20805576&v=2&type=video" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="430" height="346"></embed><br><a href="http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.addToProfileConfirm&videoid=20805576&title=Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles- Clip 4">Add to My Profile</a> | <a href="http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.home">More Videos</a>
Teaser:
<a href="http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=22197381">Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles Teaser</a><br><embed src="http://lads.myspace.com/videos/vplayer.swf" flashvars="m=22197381&v=2&type=video" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="430" height="346"></embed><br><a href="http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.addToProfileConfirm&videoid=22197381&title=Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles Teaser">Add to My Profile</a> | <a href="http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.home">More Videos</a>
patsopinion
11-17-2007, 01:10 AM
remember when they made blade into a tv show
it has that kinna b feeling to it
Furtherman
01-03-2008, 11:58 AM
The commercial-free preview of "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" will be available for free streaming on Yahoo! for a 24-hour period beginning Friday, Jan. 4 at 9:00 PM PT/Midnight ET (http://tv.yahoo.com/). The premiere will also feature an exclusive introduction by Lena Headey (Sarah Connor).
"Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" represents an exciting reinvention of the "Terminator" franchise, in which the strong and intrepid Sarah Connor (Lena Headey) discovers that protecting her 15-year-old son, John (Thomas Dekker), and stopping the rise of the machines is more difficult than she had ever imagined. Sarah and John are joined by Cameron (Summer Glau), an enigmatic and otherworldly high school student, who proves to be much more than a friend and James Ellison (Richard T. Jones) an FBI agent hot on their trail who soon becomes a powerful ally.
JustJon
01-03-2008, 12:13 PM
I fully expect the show to suck, but I'll watch the first episode...
EliSnow
01-03-2008, 12:18 PM
<p>the whole problem is they could keep going back and forth changing the future</p><p>lets say on jan 2 1992 the terminator comes back and sucessfully kills sarah or john, people from the future would know the result imediately, and send back someone to protect and save them</p><p>then the robots/computers from the future would also know that result immediately and send back a terminator again, this could go on for ions</p>
Um no, at least with regard to John.
The future would change the instant John was killed. And if he was killed before the war, no one would know that he was supposed to lead them to victory, because victory would never have happened.
EliSnow
01-03-2008, 12:27 PM
<p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">I thought that was the theme for the 3rd film.</font></p><p><font face="times new roman,times,serif" size="3">In the original and T2 the theme seemed to be "<em>The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves</em>."</font></p>
I disagree that this was the theme for the original, and it's one of the reasons I always had a problem with T2, because it's time travel theory differed from the first movie.
In the first movie, the future was set. Because the Terminator was sent back, Reese was also sent back. And because Reese was sent back, John Connor was conceived. If no Terminator was sent back, then John Connor would not have existed. Thus, the future was always set, and essentially created itself. The actions of Skynet led to its own demise. History (and the future) wasn't changed because of the time travel. The same type of theory existed for the movie 12 Monkeys.
Part of T2 recognized that, by saying that Skynet was created by the remains of the Terminator. So again, the future would not have existed without time travel. However, then they change all that and say the future is not set, and that time travel can change things.
Furtherman
01-03-2008, 12:29 PM
And in T3 it was stated that they didn't prevent Judgement Day, only postponed it. It would have happened no matter what.
EliSnow
01-03-2008, 12:36 PM
And in T3 it was stated that they didn't prevent Judgement Day, only postponed it. It would have happened no matter what.
Yeah, but even that is not really in line with the theory of the first movie. By postponing Judgment Day, they did change the course of history somewhat.
What I would have liked with T2, is the same sort of ending we had with T1, where you see that all of what happened was destined, and the time travel events were destined to happen. Having the polaroid of Sarah taken at the end of the first movie was a great moment. And was one of the reasons T1 was such a great hit. It has some great/cool sci fi ideas.
T2 really didn't have cool sci fi ideas or a great last moment like that. It was just a reason to show a big popcorn movie with some incredible CGI and Arnold as a good guy.
What the fuck is this? The Terminator by Joss Whedon? They're stealing his gimmick!
booster11373
01-03-2008, 01:31 PM
Why send back human sized terminators at all just send back Nanites to kill John Connor that's the thing that could have happened in the Matrix as well, as AI why spend all the time and resources developing Human sized equivalent things to kill humanity just create a microscopic robot and poof you win
cougarjake13
01-03-2008, 02:51 PM
Why send back human sized terminators at all just send back Nanites to kill John Connor that's the thing that could have happened in the Matrix as well, as AI why spend all the time and resources developing Human sized equivalent things to kill humanity just create a microscopic robot and poof you win
because just like with star trek we have to humanize everything
plus its cooler to have a badass like arnold running around shooting shit and blowing shit up then some microscopic thing that no one sees
EliSnow
01-03-2008, 03:34 PM
Why send back human sized terminators at all just send back Nanites to kill John Connor that's the thing that could have happened in the Matrix as well, as AI why spend all the time and resources developing Human sized equivalent things to kill humanity just create a microscopic robot and poof you win
The problem was finding Sarah/John Connor. In the first movie, they needed to have a terminator access the telephone books and then hunt and kill each Sarah Connor. How's a nanite going to do that?
Moreover, it's clear that the machines didn't have the technology to make sure machines. Probably not believable given their technical abilities, but that's the way it was.
Fallon
01-13-2008, 05:11 PM
I enjoyed the pilot tonight. It'll be interesting to see how they can pull off a weekly series.
Tenbatsuzen
01-13-2008, 05:23 PM
I enjoyed the pilot tonight. It'll be interesting to see how they can pull off a weekly series.
Hence the FBI subplot, but I'm not sure what the shot of Johnny Gavin in 2007 meant.
foodcourtdruide
01-13-2008, 05:31 PM
Maybe I'm all alone here, but I thought it was terrible.
RingWraith
01-13-2008, 05:57 PM
Maybe I'm all alone here, but I thought it was terrible.
Maybe you are alone.
For me, I enjoyed it.
marky2bucks
01-13-2008, 06:20 PM
I watched the first ep. For the next installment, I will be chewing on glass as opposed to putting myself thru that torture again.
Why can't hollywood come up with new ideas? This isn't a prequel, or a sequel, it's a midquel? The first half hour was a reuse of T2.
NickyL0885
01-13-2008, 06:55 PM
I loved it. But now, the question is: Can You have sex with that terminator? i mean, she can eat actual food an has emotions......so.....how long till John bangs it, if he can?
JustJon
01-14-2008, 06:11 AM
I thought it was just ok. I don't see the point of starting in 1999 then jumping to 2007. I think 8 years like that is kinda pointless, but since there's nothing else on, I'll at least give them tonight's show.
nate1000
01-14-2008, 06:51 AM
I agree. It did have a couple of good points, like all of those tank tops for instance, but the overall show was a little meh for me. I'll give it one more shot tonight, principally because it follows Prison Break.
BTW- I am digging the mom way more than the robot chick. (Can't get over her as River).
JustJon
01-14-2008, 07:08 AM
I agree. It did have a couple of good points, like all of those tank tops for instance, but the overall show was a little meh for me. I'll give it one more shot tonight, principally because it follows Prison Break.
BTW- I am digging the mom way more than the robot chick. (Can't get over her as River).
I like Summer Glau, but it's definitely a similar job she did as River. She played another similar character on the 4400, but was a little more "human" in her portrayal.
MadMatt
01-14-2008, 07:25 AM
It wasn't horrible but it wasn't great either. I'll give it a shot - and as Jon said, there isn't anything else on.
The biggest question I have is this: Doesn't this pull the series outside the continuity of the 3 original movies? T1 and T2 are intact, but this royally screws with T3.
I thought the point of the series was to fill in the period between T2 and T3. Did that change and I just missed it in my pre-release 'meh' regarding the series?
Tenbatsuzen
01-14-2008, 05:38 PM
Was it just me, or did Johnny Gavin look EXACTLY like the T-1000 in that scene?
Furtherman
01-15-2008, 06:11 AM
I liked last night's episode better than the first, but overall I thought it was pretty decent and it'll make a good Monday night show to watch. You pretty much have to forget about
T3, although they did address Sarah's death as mentioned in T3, so it seems Future John sent back Cameron to leapfrog over that event. And I liked how Sarah asked Cameron if she took order from John and she said "Not this one" or "Not this one yet" ... anyway, it sets up some interesting time implications.
I thought the Terminator finding his head was great.
Freitag
01-15-2008, 06:26 AM
I liked last night's episode better than the first, but overall I thought it was pretty decent and it'll make a good Monday night show to watch. You pretty much have to forget about
T3, although they did address Sarah's death as mentioned in T3, so it seems Future John sent back Cameron to leapfrog over that event. And I liked how Sarah asked Cameron if she took order from John and she said "Not this one" or "Not this one yet" ... anyway, it sets up some interesting time implications.
I thought the Terminator finding his head was great.
According to Wikipedia, the producers said that T3 is a separate cannon branch from this, but you can use the continuity from both this show and T3 for the lead into T4.
Fallon
01-15-2008, 09:24 AM
BTW- I am digging the mom way more than the robot chick. (Can't get over her as River).
Yeah, she's great too. Kicked ass in 300.
JustJon
01-15-2008, 09:30 AM
So if they leap frogged Sarah dying of cancer to 2007, will she die of cancer in 2013 now?
Fallon
01-15-2008, 09:31 AM
So if they leap frogged Sarah dying of cancer to 2007, will she die of cancer in 2013 now?
Well, she went to the doctors at the end of the show. So maybe they catch it in time.
JustJon
01-15-2008, 09:33 AM
Well, she went to the doctors at the end of the show. So maybe they catch it in time.
And she couldn't do that in 1999? Just have the terminator tell her back then.
zerothehero
01-15-2008, 10:19 AM
Continuity issues aside, I'm trying very hard to like it. My wife has basically written it off. Part of it it that we are watching Firefly right now on DVD and she can't get past River being a Terminator. But she'll entertain me and let me watch it if I want.
It doesn't help that I'm reading these lame books written a few years back. And they are pretty lame from a writing standpoint) Terminator2:Infiltrator and Terminator2:Rising Storm. I think that's really throwing me off because two sort of similar but totally different story lines. And so far I'm liking what I'm reading in the books better.
fezident
01-15-2008, 01:22 PM
I'm a HUGE fan of the Terminator movies. I really loved the 3rd installment too but, I turned off the FOX show halfway through the first episode.
I don't dig the teenage terminator. I think she's an amateur actress who brings nothing to the role. And I don't find her the least bit attractive. Not even a little. I think she's a 2 on a 10 scale.
And the dude that played Sarahs boyfriend must be married to the casting director because his acting was inexcusable. Took me right outta the story.
Too bad.
I had such high hopes for this series. I wish the acting was better.
Click.
Furtherman
01-15-2008, 01:24 PM
I turned off the show halfway through the first episode.
That's giving it a chance. Seriously, the second episode was better and showed promise. Still too early to tell, but not as bad as you think.
fezident
01-15-2008, 01:31 PM
I went in with an open mind. Actually, I went in WANTING to like it.
I just can't forgive the delivery. Everything sounds like a table-read. I think I would enjoy reading the script MORE than watching the finished product.
JustJon
01-15-2008, 01:43 PM
I don't dig the teenage terminator. I think she's an amateur actress who brings nothing to the role. And I don't find her the least bit attractive. Not even a little. I think she's a 2 on a 10 scale.
She's 26 and has been appearing regularly on television for several years now.
fezident
01-15-2008, 01:46 PM
Sorry.
I don't like the chick who was PLAYING a teenager.
As for her acting chops, I maintain that she's an amateur. I saw Serenity wherein she was sorta comatose the whole time. Now, she's playing a -somewhat- emotionless robot.
Feh.
zerothehero
01-15-2008, 03:41 PM
Sorry.
I don't like the chick who was PLAYING a teenager.
As for her acting chops, I maintain that she's an amateur. I saw Serenity wherein she was sorta comatose the whole time. Now, she's playing a -somewhat- emotionless robot.
Feh.
I'm not really caring for it either, but am giving it a chance.
They (The terminator chick and John Connor) were 20 somethings both playing teenagers but the first part of the show was set like 7 or 8 years prior to where the storyline is actually taking place so the age more or less works out.
That being said, I agree she's got a little too much emotion. But maybe that's built into this model of the terminator.
Love the terminator concept and I kind of dig Summer Glau, it's a matter of taste I guess. Don't really care for the dude playing John and I'm still unsure about Sara, but like I said going to give it a chance.
fezident
01-15-2008, 03:47 PM
What does time travel have to do with their age?
John is a 16 yr old high school student, and the Terminator was sent back to blend in and go to highschool with him.
The fact that they leaped forward in time doesn't have any bearing on their ages. As characters OR as actors.
NickyL0885
01-15-2008, 04:30 PM
I think that the fact that you think she is a 2 on a scale of 10 means that you should leave the Man Club an turn your balls into the front desk on your way out. Im not saying she is smoking hot, but....DAMN.....she is fine.
fezident
01-15-2008, 04:32 PM
I think that the fact that you think she is a 2 on a scale of 10 means that you should leave the Man Club an turn your balls into the front desk on your way out. Im not saying she is smoking hot, but....DAMN.....she is fine.
I've rejected better.
TheCarter
01-15-2008, 05:16 PM
I've rejected better.
This show to my surprise doesn't suck. And it's off to a solid start. Critics are giving it favorable reviews. I think this one will be around for awhile. And I can't wait until it really hits it's stride. At first I was completely against any Terminator spinoff show. It always sounded like they would bastardize the material.
There is a time discrepancy, which bothers me on a show ABOUT time travel.
The show starts in 1999, supposedly 2 years after the events of Judgement Day, which came out in 1991. That's a 6 year wide open gap. Also in T3, Hamilton was said to have died in 1997. In the tv show her death occurs in 2005. Now, I don't think there's anything within the context of the show to correct that.
Meaning, if she died 2 years before the show started. She should be dead in 1999 and there's no way from a story telling standpoint to fix that.
Wow, I was just thinking out loud, and it looks like I thought up an essay.
zerothehero
01-15-2008, 05:45 PM
Just talking about 20 something actors playing high school students which they were both doing.
cougarjake13
01-15-2008, 06:24 PM
dont they have to watch out for running into their 2007 counter parts ???
TheCarter
01-15-2008, 06:26 PM
dont they have to watch out for running into their 2007 counter parts ???
Well, Sarah should be dead, so it'd just be John.
cougarjake13
01-15-2008, 06:26 PM
This show to my surprise doesn't suck. And it's off to a solid start. Critics are giving it favorable reviews. I think this one will be around for awhile. And I can't wait until it really hits it's stride. At first I was completely against any Terminator spinoff show. It always sounded like they would bastardize the material.
There is a time discrepancy, which bothers me on a show ABOUT time travel.
The show starts in 1999, supposedly 2 years after the events of Judgement Day, which came out in 1991. That's a 6 year wide open gap. Also in T3, Hamilton was said to have died in 1997. In the tv show her death occurs in 2005. Now, I don't think there's anything within the context of the show to correct that.
Meaning, if she died 2 years before the show started. She should be dead in 1999 and there's no way from a story telling standpoint to fix that.
Wow, I was just thinking out loud, and it looks like I thought up an essay.
well what year the movie came out and what year its suppossed to be set in doesnt matter
but if things got pushed back like they said in t3 maybe her cancer did as well or maybe they are ignoring what happens in t3 and therfore no cancer in 1997
TheCarter
01-15-2008, 06:37 PM
well what year the movie came out and what year its suppossed to be set in doesnt matter
but if things got pushed back like they said in t3 maybe her cancer did as well or maybe they are ignoring what happens in t3 and therfore no cancer in 1997
The timeline does matter, only in the sense that it's been retconned.
T2 now takes place in 1997 as opposed to 1991.
And I don't see how Sarah's cancer could have been pushed back if nothing has happened in between T2 and the tv show. What changed?
Anyway, I look at it this way:
Terminator 1 happened and branched off into 2 timelines:
1. t2(1991) - t3(2003)
2. t2(1997) - Sarah Connor Chronicles (1999)/ (2007)
Different continuities, it looks like
TheCarter
01-15-2008, 07:04 PM
The timeline does matter, only in the sense that it's been retconned.
T2 now takes place in 1997 as opposed to 1991.
And I don't see how Sarah's cancer could have been pushed back if nothing has happened in between T2 and the tv show. What changed?
Anyway, I look at it this way:
Terminator 1 happened and branched off into 2 timelines:
1. t2(1991) - t3(2003)
2. t2(1997) - Sarah Connor Chronicles (1999)/ (2007)
Different continuities, it looks like
No, I'm completely fucking wrong. T1 came out in 83. T2 in 1991. That makes Connor 8, which doesn't make sense. T2 always took place a little in the future. Duh, that accounts for the 6 year gap(more or less). I'll shut my face now.
fezident
01-15-2008, 07:48 PM
Ya know what was really good?
TERMINATOR : BATTLE ACROSS TIME at the Universal Theme Park in Orlando.
James Cameron developed it. I think the budget was around 60 million. It takes place after Terminator2 and it deals with the beginning of the computer takeover. It was well done. Cool live action stunts too.
The plot was well executed, although the acting was definitely exaggerated for 3D. With that kinda budget, I'm surprised that they didn't release it on DVD and milk it dry.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MaFWs4WsNX4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MaFWs4WsNX4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
Furtherman
01-16-2008, 06:15 AM
Ya know what was really good?
TERMINATOR : BATTLE ACROSS TIME at the Universal Theme Park in Orlando.
I never even heard of this! Was that the whole film? Is is available on any of the Terminator DVDs?
TheCarter
01-16-2008, 06:30 AM
That ride was awesome. I did it like 5 years ago, and it was still pretty great.
JustJon
01-16-2008, 07:43 AM
dont they have to watch out for running into their 2007 counter parts ???
Not possible. By jumping ahead to the future, there is no John/Sarah from 1999 to 2007. That's only an issue when going BACK in time.
fezident
01-16-2008, 01:04 PM
I never even heard of this! Was that the whole film? Is is available on any of the Terminator DVDs?
Hey Further,
No, it wasn't a whole proper film. But the filmed sections are very cool.
It's a show at Universal Theme Park. It takes place in a theater that is made up to resemble Cyberdyne.
The shtick is that you are being treated to a demonstration of "the wonders of Cyberdyne technology" by a Cyberdyne representitive. This part of the show is live action. The actors are in costume and talking directly to you. At some point ... OH NO! Technology goes haywire! The computers are now in control! Sirens and shit start going off all around you. Then, a 3D movie starts. The movie features Arnold and Eddie Furlong. The movie shows on a screen but, the actors are doing still their thing all around you. In front of the screen. Some of the actors movements are timed to appear as though they're interacting with the actors on the screen. Etc etc.
There's tiny wind machines built into the seats. They blow on you whenever there's an onscreen explosion. Also, the seats vibrate. etc etc.
At one point, an Arnold lookalike rides through on a real motorcycle (on a track, I think).
The whole thing is an assault on the senses.
I thought it was great.
Yes... it's geared more for kids (there is some humor) but, it's really enjoyable.
EDIT: there is a "making of The Battle Across Time" featurette on one of the T2 special edition DVDs. I'll try to capture it and send it to you as an mpeg.
MadMatt
01-16-2008, 01:26 PM
EDIT: Just found out the clips of "Battle Across Time" were already posted. Sorry - just trying to be helpful. There are a lot of damn threads to try to keep track of around here. :sad:
Furtherman
01-16-2008, 01:37 PM
You mean the same clip fezident posted yesterday?
Doctor Manhattan
01-17-2008, 12:41 PM
I liked it; I really like Summer and Lena.
The only thing I didn't like was the 9/11 tie in (If she was around to see it, she would have thought that they failed and that was the beginning of Skynet's war on Humans) I didn't mind the "9/11, what's that?" line so I am not saying they should just ignore it, but her getting all down about hearing about 9/11 was unnecessary.
cougarjake13
01-17-2008, 03:19 PM
Not possible. By jumping ahead to the future, there is no John/Sarah from 1999 to 2007. That's only an issue when going BACK in time.
so forever in time theres no jon or sarah from 99-07 ???
so if a terminator goes back in time to 99-07 before john and sarah makes that jump there wont be a sarah or john in that timeframe ??
Doctor Manhattan
01-17-2008, 04:51 PM
so forever in time theres no jon or sarah from 99-07 ???
From the moment in September '99 they disappear from the bank vault to the moment they appear on that highway in September '07 there is no Jon and Sarah, unless at some point they time travel back in time and remain there during that period.
so if a terminator goes back in time to 99-07 before john and sarah makes that jump there wont be a sarah or john in that timeframe ??
If a Terminator gets to them before they walk into that vault then they will be dead or perhaps just prevented from traveling forward in time, then there will be a Jon and Sarah during that period of time.
Furtherman
01-18-2008, 06:15 AM
so forever in time theres no jon or sarah from 99-07 ???
so if a terminator goes back in time to 99-07 before john and sarah makes that jump there wont be a sarah or john in that timeframe ??
No, because they will have already jumped in 1999. No John or Sarah in 99-07.
TheCarter
01-20-2008, 09:52 PM
I liked it; I really like Summer and Lena.
The only thing I didn't like was the 9/11 tie in (If she was around to see it, she would have thought that they failed and that was the beginning of Skynet's war on Humans) I didn't mind the "9/11, what's that?" line so I am not saying they should just ignore it, but her getting all down about hearing about 9/11 was unnecessary.
Well, I was waiting for them to acknowledge it, and I think anybody would be down about it hearing it for the first time. It was tasteful, so it didn't bother me.
Doctor Manhattan
01-24-2008, 10:11 AM
So why is the Glau Terminator able to act like a real person during the first show (when she first meets John, before he knows what she is) but now is very stiff and doesn't always understand what humans mean when they talk? Did something get knocked loose during one of the fights?
MadMatt
01-24-2008, 12:42 PM
I liked it; I really like Summer and Lena.
The only thing I didn't like was the 9/11 tie in (If she was around to see it, she would have thought that they failed and that was the beginning of Skynet's war on Humans) I didn't mind the "9/11, what's that?" line so I am not saying they should just ignore it, but her getting all down about hearing about 9/11 was unnecessary.
Look at it this way - they just traveled THROUGH TIME to try to save humanity from being destroyed by it's greatest enemy. Then she finds out that humanity is doing the job all by itself.
Not only is there shock over just having heard about the tragedy, but the disappointment that no matter how hard they try, Sarah, John, et al. may not be able to save humanity. Even if they stop Skynet it may not be enough to save us in the long run.
That was my take anyway...
Furtherman
03-04-2008, 08:22 AM
The season finale was last night. Fox still hasn't renewed it.
Although I missed a couple episodes... I did like this show and hope it returns.
After a shaky start... I think it founds it's groove eventually. And last night's FBI guys into the pool scene with Johnny Cash playing was great. Very original and not your standard shoot 'em up. A textbook "less is more" scenario.
But... these days shows are cancelled too fast. So who knows.
Doctor Manhattan
03-04-2008, 09:27 AM
I have enjoyed the show very much and how it returns. They have proved to me that you don't need Arnold for a Terminator story
RingWraith
03-05-2008, 07:51 AM
I finished watching the last three episodes yesterday, and I must it definitely finished strong. The last five or six episodes were really great.
Cliffhangers do annoy me, but only because I want to see what happens next. So really really hope they come back for a second season.
LaBoob
03-05-2008, 07:56 AM
Loved... LOVED this series. I hated the guy playing John Connor at first, but towards the end really thought he was great in that role. He got a lot stronger as the season went on.
I loved the scene in the pool and agree that in this case "less is more".
I hope it gets renewed!
Furtherman
03-21-2008, 08:31 AM
I hope it gets renewed!
Scoop! Sarah Connor Bulking Up for Season 2 (http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Ausiello-Report/Ausiello-Scoop-Sarah/800035889)
I'm hearing that Fox's in-limbo Sarah Connor Chronicles has quietly begun staffing up for the fall. According to insiders, Fox has given producers the green light to start booking directors for next season's first three episodes. While this is no guarantee that SCC is returning , it's obviously a very good sign.
lleeder
03-21-2008, 02:07 PM
I thought the season finale ended with a whimper. I'll continue to watch but was disappointed that the whole memory chip thing ended the first hour and wasn't something more.
Furtherman
04-21-2008, 10:59 AM
From TV Guide...
For those wondering if Fox will be bringing back "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles," no worries. TV Guide posted the following today:
Although Fox declined comment, multiple sources confirm to me exclusively that Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles has been renewed for a second season.
Fallon
04-21-2008, 11:01 AM
I had high hopes for the show, but stopped watching after 3 or 4 episodes. Same shit every show.
Doctor Manhattan
04-21-2008, 11:14 AM
I had high hopes for the show, but stopped watching after 3 or 4 episodes. Same shit every show.
I can see that, I enjoyed the show but felt the 9 episode that aired should have condensed into been 4 or 5 episodes.
Furtherman
05-29-2008, 11:02 AM
I think this show just got a little cooler.
Shirley Manson Joins The Sarah Connor Chronicles!
Source: The Hollywood Reporter May 29, 2008
The Hollywood Reporter says that Garbage lead singer Shirley Manson has landed a regular role next season on Fox's "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles."
On "Sarah Connor," produced by Warner Bros. TV, Scottish musician Manson will play Catherine Weaver, the CEO of a cutting-edge high-tech company.
The sci-fi series, an offshoot from the "Terminator" feature franchise, is returning for a second season in the fall after launching in midseason as the highest-rated new scripted series of the 2007-08 season.
It stars Lena Headey as Sarah Connor, Thomas Dekker as her son John Connor and Summer Glau as terminator Cameron Phillips.
http://imgserv.ya.com/galerias2.ya.com/img/a/a2d6daa99131f1eei3.jpg
Furtherman
07-15-2008, 11:22 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nfRWukGfc-s&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nfRWukGfc-s&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Devo37
09-08-2008, 04:59 PM
First episode of the new season is on right now.
so far, pretty good. in general, i think it's a bit over the top with the amount of car crashes and other violent events that happen to them with little more than a few scratches and scrapes to show for it. all action movies/tv shows do it, so i guess it's just a suspend disbelief thing, but it seemed a bit obvious in this episode
plus, Shirley Manson from Garbage is leading some nefarious group that looks like it'll play a big part in the season.
OH MY GOD!!! Shirley Manson is a Scottish Terminator!!!!
Drunky McBetidont
09-08-2008, 07:25 PM
the new bad corporate chick (shirley manson?) is a force to be reckoned with. cool to bring some T2 stuff into the series. i thought this episode was fun. i was glad the fire didn't have to be lit for our hot little friend. ;)
Devo37
09-08-2008, 07:45 PM
i was glad the fire didn't have to be lit for our hot little friend. ;)
i was thinking they'd cremate Cameron as a first episode twist (only to have her return later, with "you, from the future, sent another one of me to protect you" as an explanation. hopefully, that brief Evil-Cameron angle is done, and there won't be any for-no-reason-at-all heel turns from her this season.
Chimee
09-08-2008, 07:51 PM
I'd love to see Cameron superkick John through the Barbershop window.
King Imp
09-08-2008, 08:27 PM
I'd love to see Cameron superkick John through the Barbershop window.
:lol:
Furtherman
09-09-2008, 04:50 AM
What an excellent beginning to the show! Samson & Delilah! Very cool version.
Cameron crushed between the two trucks!
I also liked they put a lot of Terminator music in this episode. And a great surprise ending. Looking forward to next week's.
NickyL0885
09-09-2008, 06:33 AM
I enjoyed it last night. I like that John has taken some control. I thought he wasn't going to remove her chip when she started pleaing with him an saying she loves him an is good now. I guess she has the ability to overide her self? She did at the end.
ScottFromGA
09-09-2008, 06:51 AM
dont watch many of the television shows like this but this show has me hooked. Very good acting, writing and action.
only issue I had was when John stepped out of the Jeep after they crashed, and you see and hear his knee "supposedly" break. Sarah was holding her arm, and John says, "Are you alright? It might be broken?" while he is walking fine. My brother and I just think the Foley guy had the sound wrong or something.
the beginning sequence was just badass though.
JustJon
09-09-2008, 08:46 AM
It was entertaining. I like the Shirley Manson character as a psycho T1000 guiding the creation of Skynet.
IamFogHat
09-13-2008, 05:50 PM
I'm catching up on season one on netflix DVD, it's pretty damn good. This post is worthless cause I forgot my point. Ok, back to the show.
Contra
09-15-2008, 07:59 PM
Ok so what was written on the wall in blood, and who wrote it? That guy from the future with the wound in his chest? I got a little confused there.
Chimee
09-15-2008, 08:06 PM
Ok so what was written on the wall in blood, and who wrote it? That guy from the future with the wound in his chest? I got a little confused there.
I think it was information on people that were replaced with robots. I'm gonna guess since he was the only one running around covered in blood, it was him.
CousinDave
09-15-2008, 09:26 PM
Shit!
My Tivo didn't record it tonight, not sure why, I know I put the season pass in earlier this year, and it recorded last weeks episode.
Guess I gotta pay $1.99 to watch on Netflix now.
Furtherman
09-16-2008, 05:48 AM
Ok so what was written on the wall in blood, and who wrote it? That guy from the future with the wound in his chest? I got a little confused there.
Yea, that was not made clear at all who wrote it or what it even meant.
Overall I felt it was a weak episode. I'm not sure what is up with Cameron. Now she's "thinking" of what to do in a situation? (When she was mopping the floor) I can't believe Sarah and John would keep her around acting like that, considering she tried to kill them recently.
Yea, that was not made clear at all who wrote it or what it even meant.
Overall I felt it was a weak episode. I'm not sure what is up with Cameron. Now she's "thinking" of what to do in a situation? (When she was mopping the floor) I can't believe Sarah and John would keep her around acting like that, considering she tried to kill them recently.
I'm glad you said that. I wasn't thrilled, but I was also distracted.
This show needs to pick it up again.
Furtherman
09-16-2008, 07:59 AM
The previous week's episode was great. But it's still too early to tell whether it will pick up again or not.
The other thing that bothered me was Charlie's (Sarah's ex-boyfriend) wife, Penny from Lost... she's doing an American accent now? Didn't have it last season.
Devo37
09-16-2008, 08:00 AM
i wasn't too thrilled with this episode. sarah and cameron instantly getting jobs at a secure power plant with well-armed guards everywhere, and then sarah having the run of the place was ridiculous.
and then brian austin green running into the place during the emergency without anyone stopping him was equally stupid.
Johnny Manf
09-16-2008, 10:16 AM
yeah this weeks episode stunk.
John would NOT go back to school after all those events from the day before. or even if it was a few days later. his mom would NOT make him go back to school. Its ridiculous. How can the kid have a normal life after what happened. Might as well just hide out and try to figure out a plan. I HATE THE HIGH SCHOOL DRAMA CRAP!
and its funny how all of a sudden Cameron does not need to be at school with him. I guess he's safe on his own all of a sudden. I just want Cromartie to come back and kill someone.
who cares about his love interest in high school. i would much rather see shit like the first episode where they're running and getting into car accidents and blowing shit up. the high school stuff has to go.
Doctor Manhattan
09-17-2008, 11:22 AM
and then brian austin green running into the place during the emergency without anyone stopping him was equally stupid.
So did BAG actually do anything this week (or even last week) aside from driving around? Sarah was the one with the gun shooting the "Greenway" Terminator (They need more T-800/850/888 like that in the show, the classic terminator endoskeleton) He just pulled up to give them a ride.
Yes, it is stupid for them to keep Cameron around (other than for whatever dramatic thing they are planning with her malfunctions this season). She even said it to them. Twice!
So putting the terminator parts in a radioactive waste thing is a good permanent solution now? I thought they had to melt them.
I saw the name "Greenway" on the bloody wall so I knew who wrote it but I could not figure out what all that other shit was supposed to mean. That scene did give them that nice shot of all 4 of them for the opening of the show.
The only thing good about last night's episode was Summer who I think is really hot (I know some disagree but I don't care) I'll stick with it because I love Terminator stories and last season was good.
IamFogHat
09-29-2008, 04:46 PM
It took forty five minutes to get to an interesting scene this episode. This season is really spotty.
Contra
09-29-2008, 05:10 PM
I thought this one was interesting, want to see where this whole Cameron thing is going
Doctor Manhattan
09-30-2008, 08:17 AM
I don't really understand what kind of great leader John is supposed to be if he is keeping Cameron around. I am a fan of Summer, but with how she is messing up after the Jeep explosion (and even before that she said "Sometimes they just go bad" in one of Derick's flashbacks to the future, Cameron said it herself. And she's gone bad at least twice now) it does not make sense to have her around
Logically they have to destroy Cameron. I think they might have written themselves into a corner.
I'll stick it out to see where they are planning to go with it. I hope I am wrong.
RingWraith
09-30-2008, 08:59 AM
I don't really understand what kind of great leader John is supposed to be if he is keeping Cameron around. I am a fan of Summer, but with how she is messing up after the Jeep explosion (and even before that she said "Sometimes they just go bad" in one of Derick's flashbacks to the future, Cameron said it herself. And she's gone bad at least twice now) it does not make sense to have her around
Logically they have to destroy Cameron. I think they might have written themselves into a corner.
I'll stick it out to see where they are planning to go with it. I hope I am wrong.
I just think the only reason John keeps her around is because he's sort of attached to it. Whether it's he's actually falling for her, or looks at her like a pet of some sort.
In the movies he was pretty much attached to the Arnold terminator. Either way, that's how I see it.
Furtherman
10-06-2008, 06:36 AM
We were lucky enough to get a review copy of tomorrow night's new episode of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It's the best episode of the season, and probably the best episode period. The characters are all clicking, even John Connor, whom we've had some issues with recently. It's an easy jumping-on point for new viewers. And most importantly, it's way more closely connected to Terminator mythos, and feels like a real sequel to the first two movies. Here are eight reasons why you should say "fuck Chuck" and watch Sarah Connor tomorrow night — with no real spoilers, unless you've missed some recent episodes. (http://io9.com/5059216/spoiler+free-review-of-the-best-terminator-episode-yet)
IamFogHat
10-06-2008, 04:04 PM
We were lucky enough to get a review copy of tomorrow night's new episode of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It's the best episode of the season, and probably the best episode period. The characters are all clicking, even John Connor, whom we've had some issues with recently. It's an easy jumping-on point for new viewers. And most importantly, it's way more closely connected to Terminator mythos, and feels like a real sequel to the first two movies. Here are eight reasons why you should say "fuck Chuck" and watch Sarah Connor tomorrow night — with no real spoilers, unless you've missed some recent episodes. (http://io9.com/5059216/spoiler+free-review-of-the-best-terminator-episode-yet)
I'm fucking excited.
IamFogHat
10-06-2008, 04:24 PM
Brian Austen Green is damn good. Why was he so hideous in 90210 and make us think so poorly of him for 10 years?
disneyspy
10-06-2008, 04:59 PM
KICK ASS EPISODE
but why did a liquid metal terminator show up?
i was under the impression that only the T1s were around
JustJon
10-06-2008, 05:01 PM
KICK ASS EPISODE
but why did a liquid metal terminator show up?
i was under the impression that only the T1s were around
She first showed up in the first ep of season 2 and haven't explained it yet. But this show keeps getting better and better.
IamFogHat
10-06-2008, 05:03 PM
KICK ASS EPISODE
but why did a liquid metal terminator show up?
i was under the impression that only the T1s were around
Agree until the liquid metal comment, have you been watching this season? If not I think you can catch up on the fox website.
disneyspy
10-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Agree until the liquid metal comment, have you been watching this season? If not I think you can catch up on the fox website.
ive been recordin em and savin em til i get some free time but the earlier post piqued my interest so i watched live.mondays i usually golf and go for wings,too cold so stayed home
Contra
10-06-2008, 06:56 PM
Yeah if you think that the T1s are the only ones around, or even around, you might want to start with the first episode of the first season and catch up from there.
Furtherman
10-07-2008, 05:37 AM
Tongue kiss of death!
Great episode. I only hope the hype brought in some good ratings. The show needs it.
Loved the whole Wizard Of OZ speech at the end. Never read that book. Scary kids stuff.
Doctor Manhattan
10-07-2008, 09:18 AM
Brian Austen Green is damn good. Why was he so hideous in 90210 and make us think so poorly of him for 10 years?
Well, it was 90210, how good can anyone be on that show? Wasn't Hillary Swank on that show? She won an Oscar but I bet she sucked on 90210! They all sucked on it.
BAG was great last night, they need to use him more often on the show, they sometimes just have him driving around.
And did they have Cameron not do any cool Terminator shit last night? All she did was pick up the kid, which I think Summer Glau might be able to do in real life. All she did was look nice, which is enough.
Chimee
10-07-2008, 10:44 AM
I think it could be to show off that they might not need her afterall. Sarah was able to lose the Terminator (though Cameron was driving) and John and Derrick were able to finish the thing off before Cameron got there. I think it might set up her going bad again and not rejoining the group.
ScottFromGA
11-04-2008, 04:39 AM
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1628079/
I'm in love with this chick....amazing rack!
who else is completely disgusted by Shirley Manson?
Doctor Manhattan
11-04-2008, 11:52 AM
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1628079/
I'm in love with this chick....amazing rack!
who else is completely disgusted by Shirley Manson?
Good call: http://www.joblo.com/video/moviehotties/player.php?video=leven_rambin_terminator
IamFogHat
11-10-2008, 04:22 PM
John Connor = El Stupido.
When is this show going to stop being about him growing out of his annoying teenage years and their tendencies and get to him being a fucking man?
cougarjake13
11-10-2008, 04:23 PM
John Connor = El Stupido.
When is this show going to stop being about him growing out of his annoying teenage years and their tendencies and get to him being a fucking man?
season 5
Chimee
11-10-2008, 04:28 PM
I really don't like the varying viewpoints, jumping around episodes.
Devo37
11-10-2008, 04:45 PM
this is like that episode of the Simpsons where they show the same story from Bart, Lisa, and Homer's point of view.
"Linguo dead?"
"Linguo is dead."
Chimee
11-10-2008, 04:56 PM
I really love the action scenes where a song plays as the shooting soundlessly happens. They're really dramatic, but in a way that is quite enjoyable.
IamFogHat
11-10-2008, 04:57 PM
This actually turned out to be one of the strongest episodes of this season, I may have been too preemptive. Still, enough of the teenage angst shit. Good ep though.
Devo37
11-10-2008, 05:12 PM
i thought it was pretty good. you have to really suspend disbelief for this show, though (even for a series about killer robots). the terminators can't shoot for sh!t, and the good guys escape from whatever peril they're in way too easy.
i think Agent Ellison's storyline is one of the most interesting out of the whole show. i hope they focus on him a bit more.
King Imp
11-10-2008, 10:12 PM
I really didn't care much for the multiple viewpoint crap. I mean seriously, was it so fucking necessary to see Derek's viewpoint that lasted all of 30 seconds and entailed a phone call? Did watching Cromartie walking around shooting all the cops add anything?
Cameron did look incredibly hot though when she laid down on the bed.
Doctor Manhattan
11-12-2008, 07:27 AM
Gonna miss Garret Dillahunt. I thought he made a great Terminator.
I liked the separate POVs but do agree a few of them were not necessary. Derek and Cameron got the call from Mexico, so they just needed to show up at the church, we get it.
IamFogHat
11-13-2008, 05:05 PM
A very slightly younger John Connor is doing a really good job as a faith healer on a rerun of House on USA for anyone interested.
I love seeing actors I know now in smaller shit they used to be in, so for anyone who's interested, check it out. Or if you saw it when it first came on chime in. I guess he's a pretty good little actor there.
IamFogHat
11-17-2008, 04:35 PM
Haha, oh my god, the time paradoxes in this franchise never cease to amaze me.:clap:
Epschtein
11-17-2008, 07:14 PM
not one of the better episodes this week.
sarah should have been hotter imo. and shirley manson is hideous.
IamFogHat
11-17-2008, 07:23 PM
not one of the better episodes this week.
sarah should have been hotter imo. and shirley manson is hideous.
Sarah could not be hotter and yes Shirley is awful, what happened to her in the last ten years?
But yeah, 'Sarah' I find beyond hot every episode.
King Imp
11-18-2008, 09:25 AM
This Asian chick is like a hotter Lucy Liu. Me likey.
Zorro
11-18-2008, 10:34 AM
Wow..it's still on ?
RingWraith
11-18-2008, 04:08 PM
I have to say I'm way more into this show than Heroes so far.
I'm also enjoying Fringe, and even Smallville this season has been awesome.
Epschtein
11-18-2008, 04:56 PM
heroes lost me in season two, will probably rent the season dvds at some point and give it another shot.
fringe is pretty good, i still check it out.
asian chick is very hot.
foghat, you really like sarah huh? i think she is good in the show for the most part, i just dont find her very hot.
cameron is hot but has kind of a weird forehead thing going on, and its not just because she is supposed to playing a cyborg, i noticed it in firefly too. she looked great in the cowboy boots and jeans with the see thru white top. meow.
IamFogHat
11-18-2008, 05:01 PM
heroes lost me in season two, will probably rent the season dvds at some point and give it another shot.
fringe is pretty good, i still check it out.
asian chick is very hot.
foghat, you really like sarah huh? i think she is good in the show for the most part, i just dont find her very hot.
cameron is hot but has kind of a weird forehead thing going on, and its not just because she is supposed to playing a cyborg, i noticed it in firefly too. she looked great in the cowboy boots and jeans with the see thru white top. meow.
Are you crazy? I would push my grandmother in front of a train to fuck her. And as far as Summer Glau goes, I used to have an unhealthy obsession with Lauren Ambrose, but I'm starting to feel like she is taking over that slot.:laugh:
Doctor Manhattan
11-25-2008, 08:53 AM
Gonna miss Garret Dillahunt. I thought he made a great Terminator.
Glad to see him back on the show, even if it is in this creepy, possibly very hacky way*.
*I'll give them a chance to do something with it before I call it hacky, oh I'm referring to the Liquid Metal Terminator/CEO lady hooking Chromartie's body to the John Henry/Babylon AI.
IamFogHat
12-01-2008, 04:09 PM
I've noticed Sarah is kind of a cunt in this series. Was she as big a bitch in the movies? Maybe more in T2 than the original, which makes sense I guess if you think about it.
Chimee
12-01-2008, 04:22 PM
These last couple of episodes are beginning to feel like an episode of 24 with the different points of view within the same time frame.
cougarjake13
12-01-2008, 05:41 PM
Glad to see him back on the show, even if it is in this creepy, possibly very hacky way*.
*I'll give them a chance to do something with it before I call it hacky, oh I'm referring to the Liquid Metal Terminator/CEO lady hooking Chromartie's body to the John Henry/Babylon AI.
i think before long the babylon AI will be in cromarties body and not need to be attached
obviously this is the precursor to what cromartie and the sister become
cougarjake13
12-01-2008, 05:42 PM
I've noticed Sarah is kind of a cunt in this series. Was she as big a bitch in the movies? Maybe more in T2 than the original, which makes sense I guess if you think about it.
well yeh in the 1st terminator she's just sarah connor
in t2 she's sarah connor hardened badass fighter of terminators
this show takes place after t2
IamFogHat
12-01-2008, 06:06 PM
well yeh in the 1st terminator she's just sarah connor
in t2 she's sarah connor hardened badass fighter of terminators
this show takes place after t2
You're right, but I guess my point is from a filmmaking point of view, this character is becoming totally unlikable and unsympathetic to me, the two things a protagonist cannot be. The Sarah Connor from T2 was a cunt but was likeable and sympathetic, which is weird, cause I'm in love with this new woman, but she's really grating on me lately. I don't know, they need to make her more likeable or this series will fall apart. God damn this show has a lot going against it, why do we still like it?
cougarjake13
12-01-2008, 06:16 PM
You're right, but I guess my point is from a filmmaking point of view, this character is becoming totally unlikable and unsympathetic to me, the two things a protagonist cannot be. The Sarah Connor from T2 was a cunt but was likeable and sympathetic, which is weird, cause I'm in love with this new woman, but she's really grating on me lately. I don't know, they need to make her more likeable or this series will fall apart. God damn this show has a lot going against it, why do we still like it?
yeh at first im like yeh she has to be that way to protect him and all but now its getting annoying, i mean eventually she dies and he still saves the human race
and i thought the blonde chick was weird for outta nowhere trying to talk with him and all now we know why
and i love the chick playing sarah as well
as for why we still watch, i dunno b/c it cant get any better than it is now b/c that eans to progress forward in the storyline and have the actual machines take over and then its no longer the sarah connor chronicles and then will also conflict with the new trilogy
so the most we'll get is maybe a lead up to the trilogy but then what ??
if the show remains successful what the hell will they do in season 5 or 6 ??
Doctor Manhattan
12-02-2008, 08:21 AM
Glad to see him back on the show, even if it is in this creepy, possibly very hacky way*.
*I'll give them a chance to do something with it before I call it hacky, oh I'm referring to the Liquid Metal Terminator/CEO lady hooking Chromartie's body to the John Henry/Babylon AI.
i think before long the babylon AI will be in cromarties body and not need to be attached
obviously this is the precursor to what cromartie and the sister become
sister?
I think I might have missed it, but why was Myron "T-888" Stark sent to kill Governor Mark Wyman on New Years Eve 2010? Well, that is what Cameron guessed so if not him, then who? And if he was supposed to be sent to Dec 31, 2010 but ended up at Dec 31, 1920 was the speakeasy in the future the location of Pico Tower? They made it sound like the land that Pico Tower was built was undeveloped in the 1920s before Stark built the tower.
Doctor Manhattan
12-02-2008, 10:22 AM
Now that I think about it, why did the T-888 even bother stating a building company just to shot some guy? The guy who built the tower was accidentally killed 90 years earlier, so the terminator figures he should make sure the tower is still built (while destroying the career of the father of the person he accidentally killed) and then hide in the wall for 80+ years just to jump out and shoot the future Governor since he is supposed to be there on Dec 31st 2010? Why not take those 90 years to find out where else the governor might be and kill him or his mother or even his grandmother?
Contra
12-02-2008, 12:06 PM
See I thought someone walled him up because he couldn't be killed, although I wasn't sure how that could have been done either. Just a side note I haven't seen the show for about a month before this episode so I missed some stuff
cougarjake13
12-02-2008, 12:53 PM
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="2"][COLOR="Red"]sister?
yeh cameron i couldnt think of her name and was too lazy to google
cougarjake13
12-02-2008, 12:54 PM
Now that I think about it, why did the T-888 even bother stating a building company just to shot some guy? The guy who built the tower was accidentally killed 90 years earlier, so the terminator figures he should make sure the tower is still built (while destroying the career of the father of the person he accidentally killed) and then hide in the wall for 80+ years just to jump out and shoot the future Governor since he is supposed to be there on Dec 31st 2010? Why not take those 90 years to find out where else the governor might be and kill him or his mother or even his grandmother?
b/c then we dont get the cool visual of him coming through a wall
JustJon
12-02-2008, 07:26 PM
b/c then we dont get the cool visual of him coming through a wall
Also possible that the assassination isn't just about killing that individual. It's possible they chose that time for a particular reason or for a specific impact in addition to the killing of the senator.
Doctor Manhattan
12-03-2008, 05:42 AM
Also possible that the assassination isn't just about killing that individual. It's possible they chose that time for a particular reason or for a specific impact in addition to the killing of the senator.
Perhaps, I don't remember Skynet doing anything for impact (I take your explanation to mean they want to send a message of some kind) They usually just try to do things in a logical way to get the job done i.e. send a T800 to kill Sarah Connor to prevent John Connor from being born.
It might be nice to get a little more information about who the target was.
cougarjake13
12-03-2008, 07:44 AM
Now that I think about it, why did the T-888 even bother stating a building company just to shot some guy? The guy who built the tower was accidentally killed 90 years earlier, so the terminator figures he should make sure the tower is still built (while destroying the career of the father of the person he accidentally killed) and then hide in the wall for 80+ years just to jump out and shoot the future Governor since he is supposed to be there on Dec 31st 2010? Why not take those 90 years to find out where else the governor might be and kill him or his mother or even his grandmother?
also what are the ramifications of killing this guy who as far as we know wasnt supposed to die that day ??
Doctor Manhattan
12-03-2008, 08:37 AM
also what are the ramifications of killing this guy who as far as we know wasnt supposed to die that day ??
The guy from 1920 or the Governor from 2010?
King Imp
12-03-2008, 09:49 AM
Okay, I have a question now.
Based on IMDb, Cameron is listed as a T-OK715 model. Since we are used to hearing models listed as T-800, T-888, T-1000, & T-X, where in the Terminator lineage does her model fall? One would have to assume she's more advanced than the T-888 as she had no problem kicking it's ass in the last show.
Just wondering if she's more or less advanced than the T-1000 which one would assume is what Shirley Manson's character is.
Doctor Manhattan
12-03-2008, 10:23 AM
Based on IMDb, Cameron is listed as a T-OK715 model...where in the Terminator lineage does her model fall?
I wonder if there is a "behind the scenes/in joke" meaning for "OK715" I would guess someone's initials and birthday.
I remember reading that Cameron was designed to be able to mimic human mannerisms better than other Terminators before her. Other than in the pilot (Before John knows what she is) and when in between the trucks ("I love you John, and you love me") I don't really see much of that mimicking human mannerisms.
I don't know if there is any real information about how powerful she is compared to other terminators. She does seem to be able to take care of everyone she's fought so far
cougarjake13
12-03-2008, 10:23 AM
The guy from 1920 or the Governor from 2010?
well originally it was just the 1920 guy
maybe his descendants or whatever friends, acquaintances he would have met would have had some impact on the world and now that he dies before he should those things never happen
but also 2010 guy, he must be someone the machines far in the future, but why ??
IamFogHat
12-15-2008, 03:42 PM
I had to work and missed last week, can anyone give me a super brief recap? Thanks buddays.
Doctor Manhattan
12-16-2008, 12:05 PM
So what the fuck was that at the end of last night's episode?
IamFogHat
02-20-2009, 05:01 PM
Anyone still watching? It's as good as it was last year. Which isn't saying a lot, but I'm still interested. Any thoughts?
Devo37
04-05-2009, 04:23 PM
holy sh!t! Derek got shot in the forehead out of nowhere! what an un-spectacular death! and holy double sh!t! Sarah's in police custody!!
since they moved it to the friday night death-slot, i've been watching it mostly online, but i think it's still interesting, especially the John Henry storyline. hopefully, they'll get another season to finish things up before it gets cancelled.
Chimee
04-05-2009, 04:36 PM
That was the most uneventful death I've ever seen.
Devo37
04-05-2009, 05:43 PM
That was the most uneventful death I've ever seen.
absolutely! he was barely even on the screen when it happened. i had to rewind to make sure it was really him. it was like a red-shirt Star Trek death!
was friday's episode the season finale?
Chimee
04-05-2009, 05:55 PM
Friday is the season finale.
Doctor Manhattan
04-11-2009, 06:19 AM
So what did you think of the Finale? This storyline isn't tied to the Christian Bale movie is it?
Chimee
04-11-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm convinced it's becoming Lost.
I think John didn't lead the resistance through the natural march of time, but he always ended up going into the future as he did and becoming the leader based on his knowledge of fighting the Terminators all his life and with the knowledge that they would go back in time to try to kill him.
CruelCircus
04-12-2009, 08:54 PM
Why would "John Henry" want to go to the future? And why would Cameron volunteer her chip? And why would John feel the need to go after them? That ending was rushed and didn't make any sense.
Doctor Manhattan
04-13-2009, 06:37 AM
Why would "John Henry" want to go to the future? And why would Cameron volunteer her chip? And why would John feel the need to go after them? That ending was rushed and didn't make any sense.
I don't understand something, Cameron's chip is gone. Did John Henry put the chip in his body and now Cameron is using the Cromartie/John Henry body in the future? If so where is John Henry? the T-1000 said John Connor needs John Henry so I assume he is still somewhere but the tech guy said any change made to the hardware would change JH, they were talking about the length of a single cable. I assumed John Henry was in the computer and the body connected by the cable in the back of his head, but now that body is gone, is JH in the chip with Cameron?
I assume that was not Cameron at the end of the show because the dog was cool with her being so close, so that must be Allison who Cameron was designed after.
The ending was very rushed.
I've been waiting this whole season to learn more about the people making the Hunter Killers in that factory (the HVAC place that Sarah found and the T-1000 blew up) They seemed to be all human so who did they work for?
Who sent the T-1000 back to take over Catherine Weaver's company?
cougarjake13
04-13-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't understand something, Cameron's chip is gone. Did John Henry put the chip in his body and now Cameron is using the Cromartie/John Henry body in the future? If so where is John Henry? the T-1000 said John Connor needs John Henry so I assume he is still somewhere but the tech guy said any change made to the hardware would change JH, they were talking about the length of a single cable. I assumed John Henry was in the computer and the body connected by the cable in the back of his head, but now that body is gone, is JH in the chip with Cameron?
I assume that was not Cameron at the end of the show because the dog was cool with her being so close, so that must be Allison who Cameron was designed after.
The ending was very rushed.
I've been waiting this whole season to learn more about the people making the Hunter Killers in that factory (the HVAC place that Sarah found and the T-1000 blew up) They seemed to be all human so who did they work for?
Who sent the T-1000 back to take over Catherine Weaver's company?
pretty much the same questions i had
and i agree with the natural march of time it wasnt him but in all subsequent times it is
even with the first movie i always thought of it this way
theres some guy named john connor who in the future helps defeat the terminators but its not from linda hamiltons sarah connor
but kyle comes back, finds lindas sarah, tells her everything he knows assuming that she is the sarah connor mother of kyle's john in the future but isnt
so with all she knows from kyle and whatever else she basically creates a 2nd john connor
if you remember in the movie arnold finds that theres 2 other sarah connors in the same area as lindas sarah, maybe one of their kids is the original john
cougarjake13
04-13-2009, 06:20 PM
holy sh!t! Derek got shot in the forehead out of nowhere! what an un-spectacular death! and holy double sh!t! Sarah's in police custody!!
since they moved it to the friday night death-slot, i've been watching it mostly online, but i think it's still interesting, especially the John Henry storyline. hopefully, they'll get another season to finish things up before it gets cancelled.
i think as long as it lasted til the movie came out was all they were hoping for
Doctor Manhattan
04-15-2009, 11:42 AM
even with the first movie i always thought of it this way
theres some guy named john connor who in the future helps defeat the terminators but its not from linda hamiltons sarah connor
but kyle comes back, finds lindas sarah, tells her everything he knows assuming that she is the sarah connor mother of kyle's john in the future but isnt
so with all she knows from kyle and whatever else she basically creates a 2nd john connor
if you remember in the movie arnold finds that theres 2 other sarah connors in the same area as lindas sarah, maybe one of their kids is the original john
That would be something, but didn't Kyle have a picture of Sarah given to him by adult John Connor, which is burned in the future (during a flashback) but then at the end of the movie you see that picture of Sarah taken just before the storm comes and she drives off?
cougarjake13
04-15-2009, 04:29 PM
That would be something, but didn't Kyle have a picture of Sarah given to him by adult John Connor, which is burned in the future (during a flashback) but then at the end of the movie you see that picture of Sarah taken just before the storm comes and she drives off?
yes that does happen
maybe in the sarah connor term version john finds his moms stuff somewhere in the future and when he goes to send kyle back he gives kyle the picture
Contra
04-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Yes John did give Kyle the picture, without telling him it was his mother. I always believed that he gave him the picture knowing that he would eventually have to send him back to save his mother, and father him, and that he would die in the process.
lleeder
04-15-2009, 06:51 PM
Was that the end of the series? Is John in love with Cameron? If the show is called Sarah Connor Chronicles how can it be called that if now it will be all about John in the future? Which future did he jump into? The show has already established that different futures exist.
cougarjake13
04-15-2009, 07:05 PM
Was that the end of the series? Is John in love with Cameron? If the show is called Sarah Connor Chronicles how can it be called that if now it will be all about John in the future? Which future did he jump into? The show has already established that different futures exist.
theres one episode left
i think its beeen implied a few times throughout the show that john was in love with the human form of cameron in the future
we wont have to worry much about the title b/c i think they were just hoping for it to last til the movie came out
we'll prob or hopefully get a clue of what future he is in , but since kyle is still there in the future it must not be that far ahead of 2009, now what future that is based on the changes made by the show we'll have to wait and see
Chimee
04-16-2009, 10:48 AM
theres one episode left
i think its beeen implied a few times throughout the show that john was in love with the human form of cameron in the future
we wont have to worry much about the title b/c i think they were just hoping for it to last til the movie came out
we'll prob or hopefully get a clue of what future he is in , but since kyle is still there in the future it must not be that far ahead of 2009, now what future that is based on the changes made by the show we'll have to wait and see
Actually last week was the season finale and there is a fear that the show won't be coming back.
cougarjake13
04-16-2009, 04:36 PM
Actually last week was the season finale and there is a fear that the show won't be coming back.
yeh for some reason i thought there was 1 more
Doctor Manhattan
04-17-2009, 06:41 AM
i think its beeen implied a few times throughout the show that john was in love with the human form of cameron in the future
Well, I am in love with the human form of Cameron. I am not implying it.
cougarjake13
04-17-2009, 04:36 PM
Well, I am in love with the human form of Cameron. I am not implying it.
im in love with either version and i dont care who implies what
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.