The Path to 911...

[bear_s75]

I just watched to first part of The Path to 911 on ABC.  I was looking to get everyone elses opinion of it.  I thought it was very good. I am looking forward to the conclusion tomorrow night.  Iknow their are fictional scenes, but man you can't help(or at least i can't) but really look at Mr. Clinton with a new low.  If that is possible.  Again, just wondering what everyone else thinks.

[bear_s75]

BTW...if there is already a thread about this. please show me theway and accept my apology

[Reephdweller]

<p>I didn't see it tonight, but either way I doubt I would let whatever they showed in the movie since they took so much creative license with it. As much as I wasn't a huge fan of Clinton I will defend him and his administration on whatever this film wants to say about them. I know they borrowed info from the 9/11 commission report though they also filled in a lot of the gaps with their own&nbsp;ideas of what transpired. That is enough for me to not view any of it without skepticism of the validity of the story.</p>

[Dudeman]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>bear_s75</strong> wrote:<br />&nbsp;man you can't help(or at least i can't) but really look at Mr. Clinton with a new low. If that is possible. <br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>if you are trying to imagine a new low, see bush, george w.&nbsp;</p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

<p><span class="postbody">Iknow their are fictional scenes, but man you can't help(or at least i can't) but really look at Mr. Clinton with a new low.</span></p><p>So you knew those scenes were fictional but you took them seriosuly anyway?&nbsp;</p>

[NortonRules]

<p>I applaud ABC for not giving in to the liberals trying to censor them.&nbsp; </p><p>According to the liberals, conservatives are&nbsp;the ones censoring everyone and hiding information.&nbsp; It's funny how the liberals do it, too, but it's widely accepted and even encouraged.&nbsp; </p>

[angrymissy]

<strong>NortonRules</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I applaud ABC for not giving in to the liberals trying to censor them.&nbsp; </p><p>According to the liberals, conservatives are&nbsp;the ones censoring everyone and hiding information.&nbsp; It's funny how the liberals do it, too, but it's widely accepted and even encouraged.&nbsp; </p><p>Yeah, but ABC put in fictional scenes with Clinton that absolutely did not happen.&nbsp; None of that was in the 9/11 reports.&nbsp; They're saying the movie was based on the 9/11 reports, when those scenes were not.</p><p>A few questions for anyone who saw the movie, did they clearly state that there were fictional scenes?&nbsp; Did they also show Bush with his &quot;My Pet Goat&quot; debacle, or just the fictional Clinton scenes?</p>

[angrymissy]

<strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody">Iknow their are fictional scenes, but man you can't help(or at least i can't) but really look at Mr. Clinton with a new low. </span><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">So you knew those scenes were fictional but you took them seriosuly anyway?</font></font>&nbsp;</p><p>^^^^^^^^^^</p>

[TokeOne]

<p>If I wanted to watch batch material for right wing Red Staters I would tune into Brit Hume and John Gibson on Fox News.</p>

[Recyclerz]

<strong>NortonRules</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I applaud ABC for not giving in to the liberals trying to censor them.&nbsp; </p><p>According to the liberals, conservatives are&nbsp;the ones censoring everyone and hiding information.&nbsp; It's funny how the liberals do it, too, but it's widely accepted and even encouraged.&nbsp; </p><p>Caucasian, please.&nbsp; The Conservatives did the exact same gimmick for the same exact alleged reasons (fictionalized facts and implied motivations) with the Reagan miniseries that CBS was going to show a few years ago.&nbsp; The only difference is the Conservatives actually were successful in bum rushing CBS and getting them to pull the show, which I have to give them credit for in getting their goal accomplished.&nbsp; I'm studying their techniques with the torches &amp; pitchforks so that I can help the dandified liberals (with their&nbsp;rationality and abstract thought) to start fighting these fights more effectively.</p><p>And Bear, finish watching that stupid movie if you must, but do yourself a favor and read Richard Clarke's book <em><strong>Against All Enemies</strong></em>, then decide which one has the ring of truth to it.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[bear_s75]

<strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>HBox</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody">Iknow their are fictional scenes, but man you can't help(or at least i can't) but really look at Mr. Clinton with a new low. </span><p>&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#000080"><font size="2">So you knew those scenes were fictional but you took them seriosuly anyway?</font></font>&nbsp;</p><p>^^^^^^^^^^</p><p><font size="2">didn't say i took them seriously, i found the first half of the movie entertaining and disturbing at the same time since we all know what is coming. They did show a couple times a screen that said some scenes are fictional etc...I should have figured all the left wing pussies who read my post would not be able to respond without getting their feelings hurt since your buddy Clinton was shown in a bad light.&nbsp; And I am not saying anything good about W. either.&nbsp; He is proving to be one of the worst ever!&nbsp; If not the worst!&nbsp; Maybe the rightwingers did get a movie of Reagan pulled I don't fucking now or care!&nbsp; </font></p><p><font size="2">I watched all sorts of 911 shows yesterday to remeber these awful events and say prayers for all who suffered and those who still are.&nbsp; This was on and I said why not watch it.&nbsp; And yes i was interested to see the ficional scenes since they must have been pretty bad for an ex-pres to come out and say he wanted them changed. Can't say i blame him cause it made him look like an ass.</font></p>

[bear_s75]

<strong>Recyclerz</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>NortonRules</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I applaud ABC for not giving in to the liberals trying to censor them.&nbsp; </p><p>According to the liberals, conservatives are&nbsp;the ones censoring everyone and hiding information.&nbsp; It's funny how the liberals do it, too, but it's widely accepted and even encouraged.&nbsp; </p><p>Caucasian, please.&nbsp; The Conservatives did the exact same gimmick for the same exact alleged reasons (fictionalized facts and implied motivations) with the Reagan miniseries that CBS was going to show a few years ago.&nbsp; The only difference is the Conservatives actually were successful in bum rushing CBS and getting them to pull the show, which I have to give them credit for in getting their goal accomplished.&nbsp; I'm studying their techniques with the torches &amp; pitchforks so that I can help the dandified liberals (with their&nbsp;rationality and abstract thought) to start fighting these fights more effectively.</p><p>And Bear, finish watching that stupid movie if you must, but do yourself a favor and read Richard Clarke's book <em><strong>Against All Enemies</strong></em>, then decide which one has the ring of truth to it.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I will look into reading that,&nbsp; iguess its all true if it attacks George W. huh?&nbsp; It could be right for all i and&nbsp;u know as&nbsp; i doubt u have any more insight to what goes on behind the closed doors of our Gov't&nbsp; </p>

[walking joint]

i enjoyed my football sunday also

[bear_s75]

<strong>walking joint</strong> wrote:<br />i enjoyed my football sunday also <p><img height="30" src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/clap.gif" width="45" border="0" /></p>

[Yerdaddy]

Did anyone with pubes see this disgrace?

[CuzBum]

<strong>Yerdaddy</strong> wrote:<br />Did anyone with pubes see this disgrace? <p>I shaved just before it came on, sorry!</p>

[bear_s75]

<p>Wow!&nbsp; i didn't realize this thread was going to get so ugly so fast!&nbsp; I just read on cnn.com that about 41% blame Clinton for 911 and about 45% blame Bush.&nbsp; The point being&nbsp; that whoever or whatever you and I&nbsp;think is to blame, it doesn't erase the terrible events that happened and we all need to remember those who lost their lives and do whatever we can to prevent it from happening again.</p><p>I guess i should have known that this show would raise tempers, so i apologize and God Bless America!</p><p>Bear</p>

[UnknownPD]

<strong>Yerdaddy</strong> wrote:<br />Did anyone with pubes see this disgrace? <p>&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">Clinton was a disgrace. He bailed on his core principles and ruled by poll numbers. The country was more Republican during the Clinton years than it is today. I just can't understand why this guy is defended by anyone.</font></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by UnknownPD on 9-11-06 @ 1:03 PM</span>

[blakjeezis]

<p>How about we blame the ragheads that planned the attack and flew the planes into the buildings, maybe they should get at least some share of the culpability. But no, you're probably right. It's a much better idea to try and prove how it was the other guy's fault so we can sink deeper into the mire of partisanship and division. It's difficult to believe that there were all these failures in intelligence, preparedness, and emergency planning while everyone was comparing dick sizes. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Grow the fuck up, the lot of you. &nbsp;</p>

[Furtherman]

<strong>bear_s75</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Wow!&nbsp; i didn't realize this thread was going to get so ugly so fast!&nbsp; I just read on cnn.com that about 41% blame Clinton for 911 and about 45% blame Bush.&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You know what's wierd?&nbsp; I blame the terrorists.&nbsp; I blame the hijackers.&nbsp; I blame Osama Bin Laden and his radical Islamic fundamentalist crew.&nbsp; </p><p>Why aren't people point the finger at them instead of other Americans.&nbsp; Morons.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And blame has yet to be placed on this current administration.&nbsp; The blame for&nbsp;letting Osama get away.</p><p>Remember when Bush said this:&nbsp; &quot;I can hear you, the rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.&quot;</p><p>I behind you 100%&nbsp;Mr. President.&nbsp; I was never more saddened and never more proud at the&nbsp;same time.</p><p>Then you sent the majority of troops into.... Iraq?&nbsp; I can still remember the night we starting bombing there, screaming at the TV... why are we doing this?&nbsp; The people who knocked these buildings down are still out there.&nbsp; They're in&nbsp;the mountains of the&nbsp;Afghan/Pakistan border.&nbsp; I know it wouldn't be easier, but we haven't done&nbsp;all that we can to make it that way.&nbsp;<br /></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Furtherman on 9-11-06 @ 12:26 PM</span>

[bear_s75]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>And blame has yet to be placed on this current administration.&nbsp; The blame for&nbsp;letting Osama get away.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>WHAT!!!&nbsp; Bush has not been blamed for taking us into Iraq on false information!!!!</p><p>Where have you been?</p>

[Recyclerz]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>I will look into reading that,&nbsp; iguess its all true if it attacks George W. huh?&nbsp; It could be right for all i and&nbsp;u know as&nbsp; i doubt u have any more insight to what goes on behind the closed doors of our Gov't&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Bear</p><p>Although I admit to hating on W (in fact I'm proud of it), &nbsp;my point in recommending Richard Clarke's book is not that it bashes Bush and praises Clinton (both take their hits) but that it is a lot closer to history than propaganda. Now everyone is entitled to their opinions but everyone is not entitled to their own facts.&nbsp; Adults should be able to sort through the differences.&nbsp; </p><p>And I disagree with your premise that nobody on the outside of government can know what is really going on behind those closed doors.&nbsp; One of the best reasons to love this country is that with an open society&nbsp;any crew that is temporarily on top can't hide their mistakes for very long.&nbsp; We knew pretty quickly that Clinton was getting head in his office; we also knew pretty quickly that&nbsp;W's reasons for going to war in Iraq didn't hold water - whether we chose to listen or not is the real question.&nbsp; </p><p>If&nbsp;you buy into the fictions of the Coulters or Hannitys on the right or some of the Air America crowd on the left you're always going to be living in a fantasy world.&nbsp; As Americans, we owe it to the people who have died and otherwise sacrificed to defend our ability to get the truth to actually use that ability.</p><p>edit: Sorry to skip over the most recent posts.&nbsp; I started typing this before we had an evacuation drill. Great day for it, right? <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/sad.gif" border="0" /></p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Recyclerz on 9-11-06 @ 12:53 PM</span>

[bear_s75]

<strong>Recyclerz</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I will look into reading that,&nbsp; iguess its all true if it attacks George W. huh?&nbsp; It could be right for all i and&nbsp;u know as&nbsp; i doubt u have any more insight to what goes on behind the closed doors of our Gov't&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Bear</p><p>Although I admit to hating on W (in fact I'm proud of it), &nbsp;my point in recommending Richard Clarke's book is not that it bashes Bush and praises Clinton (both take their hits) but that it is a lot closer to history than propaganda. Now everyone is entitled to their opinions but everyone is not entitled to their own facts.&nbsp; Adults should be able to sort through the differences.&nbsp; </p><p>And I disagree with your premise that nobody on the outside of government can know what is really going on behind those closed doors.&nbsp; One of the best reasons to love this country is that with an open society&nbsp;any crew that is temporarily on top can't hide their mistakes for very long.&nbsp; We knew pretty quickly that Clinton was getting head in his office; we also knew pretty quickly that&nbsp;W's reasons for going to war in Iraq didn't hold water - whether we chose to listen or not is the real question.&nbsp; </p><p>If&nbsp;you buy into the fictions of the Coulters or Hannitys on the right or some of the Air America crowd on the left you're always going to be living in a fantasy world.&nbsp; As Americans, we owe it to the people who have died and otherwise sacrificed to defend our ability to get the truth to actually use that ability.</p><p>edit: Sorry to skip over the most recent posts.&nbsp; I started typing this before we had an evacuation drill. Great day for it, right? <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/sad.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span class="post_edited">This message was edited by Recyclerz on 9-11-06 @ 12:53 PM</span> </p>Let me first say that i agree with you that nobody should believe the extreme right or left as they are both equally as bad and are politically driven in all they do.&nbsp; Also I am not a W. Fan.&nbsp; I did vote for him because i thought he would take care of business and get bin laden when he didn't have to worry about getting re-elected.&nbsp; BOY WAS I WRONG!!!&nbsp; I have no problem admitting my mistake on that and i can't wait for him to go! <p>&nbsp;</p><p>I do think that we have aright to know what the Gov't is doing, however, i do think that we some things have to be kept away from the public for our own safety.</p><p>You seem pretty level headed about this sticky situation and I may go and pick up that book.</p><p>Bear</p>

[keithy_19]

<p>I wanted to watch this and unfortunately was to caught up in my Giants losing to those bastard colts and refs(pass interference my ass). </p><p>I personally think it may be best if everyone looks at each extreme side of the political scene. Try to throw all of your bias' and point of views out the window for a moment, and look at both. That way, you can see why we should all just stop getting political and just come together as a country. Though I do know it will never happen. </p>

[Bulldogcakes]

<p>&nbsp;</p><strong>Recyclerz</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>NortonRules</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I applaud ABC for not giving in to the liberals trying to censor them. </p><p>According to the liberals, conservatives are the ones censoring everyone and hiding information. It's funny how the liberals do it, too, but it's widely accepted and even encouraged. </p><p>Caucasian, please. The Conservatives did the exact same gimmick for the same exact alleged reasons (fictionalized facts and implied motivations) with the Reagan miniseries that CBS was going to show a few years ago. The only difference is the Conservatives actually were successful in bum rushing CBS and getting them to pull the show, which I have to give them credit for in getting their goal accomplished. I'm studying their techniques with the torches &amp; pitchforks so that I can help the dandified liberals (with their rationality and abstract thought) to start fighting these fights more effectively.</p><p>And Bear, finish watching that stupid movie if you must, but do yourself a favor and read Richard Clarke's book <em><strong>Against All Enemies</strong></em>, then decide which one has the ring of truth to it.</p><p> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And we've also been fed romanticized versions of Kennedy and FDR for my entire life. So if youre applying a principle here, and not just &quot;who's ox is being gored&quot; partisanship, you'll have a problem with both. Or be OK with it when either side does it. Both of you. <br /></p><p>And Recyc, the Left has its share of demagogues and angry mobs. Labor unions, Al Shaprton and Michael Moorer come to mind. You're not exactly all a bunch of college professors either. And the Right has its share of intellectuals in the Cato institute and elsewhere. You just wouldn't know it by the guys running the White House. <br /></p><blockquote /><p>&nbsp;</p>

[HBox]

<p>&nbsp;</p><span class="postbody">And Recyc, the Left has its share of demagogues
and angry mobs. Labor unions, Al Shaprton and <strong>Michael Moorer</strong> come to
mind. You're not exactly all a bunch of college professors either. And
the Right has its share of intellectuals in the Cato institute and
elsewhere. You just wouldn't know it by the guys running the White
House.</span><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img width="238" height="254" border="0" src="http://www.sho.com/site/boxing/image_bin/moorer.jpg" /> <br /></p><p><font color="Navy"><font size="2">Why liberals were rallying around a boxer I have no clue. He wasn't involved in politics, and wasn't much of a fighter either.</font></font><br /></p>

[/quote]

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by HBox on 9-11-06 @ 6:24 PM</span>

[keithy_19]

<p><font color="#000080" size="2">Why liberals were rallying around a boxer I have no clue. He wasn't involved in politics, and wasn't much of a fighter either.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>HBox, I'd watch your back now. His hero is Mike Tyson. </p>

[Hottub]

<p>I've got NGC on right now.</p><p>Gimme a National Geographic documentary or the network drivel any day of the week!</p>

[Hottub]

<p>&quot;Hey Brother, let's get out of here!&quot;</p><p>One Muslem, one Jew, hand in hand, escaping the collapse.</p>

[TheMojoPin]

<p>This film seems pretty ham-fisted and generally not very good.&nbsp; &quot;Historical films&quot; always have any number of &quot;historical&quot; issues fudged for dramatic effect or just simply portrayed incorrectly in the final product, and this one doesn't seem to be any worse or better than most of the major films in this genre.&nbsp; There doesn't really seem to be any malicious &quot;bias&quot; either way...the first part is ragging on the Clinton era and the second part smacks around Bush and his administration.&nbsp; The overall point seems to be that the government in general dropped the ball and the filmmakers are trying to drive that point home as &quot;dramatically&quot; as possible.&nbsp; Sure, issues of historical accuracy should be addressed, especially with something this recent, but trying to make it seem like somebody behind it has some kind of sinister agenda politically is absurd, and it's an absurd argument 99.9% of the time it's tossed out.&nbsp; The main issue is trying to get people to watch, and it's a cheap ploy to make the film more sensational to get people do that.&nbsp; Screaming about &quot;bias&quot; on either side usually just ends up seeming like a lazy attempt to get attention since it ultimatelt ends up amounting to nothing serious or important.&nbsp; It's a hollow, superficial non-argument.</p><p>Besides, this shouldn't be anyone's main source of infor for the issues and&nbsp;events leading up to 9/11.&nbsp; Personally, I'd reccomend the following recent title as a brilliant starting place:</p><p><img height="500" src="http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/037541486X.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V65774996_.jpg" width="500" border="0" /></p>