View Full Version : What the F?-I Don't Even Know What to Say
grlNIN
11-07-2006, 07:02 AM
<p>A little background. an office job through the week. It's a typical 9 to 5 and our office is located within a larger Non-Profit office. </p><p>My boss is only here with me one day a week and the other people in my office come and go about two to three times a day, maxing at hour long visits. So basically, i am left alone in our office to do work.</p><p>Today i am here, not even an hour and a half. I walk to and from the copy room and when i get to my desk my friend and fellow employee who is also my age sends me a message saying that the other Administrative Assisstant was saying very inappropriate things about me when i left my office.</p><p>Now, this is another female and she is a co-worker but that is only because we share office space, we don't work for the same organization. She's older, maybe her late 40's and very, very rude. From what i gather no one in the building can stand her and avoids her at all costs.</p><p>I was told that she was making snide remarks about the way i dress for work. That someone should tell me to "cover up" and dress "more appropriately" . Now, I'm 21 years old and i understand that there is an age gap and whatever but my office is business casual and i am young. I wear skirts that are always at a fingertips length at least and sweaters or clean button down shirts.</p><p>I am baffled, i have NO fucking clue what to even think about what she said, let alone if i should confront her about it. I feel like i should defend myself in some way because this is NOT how i want to come across to the other people here but at the same time i know i don't dress anything short of what is appropriate for both my age and what my boss allows. </p><p>What the fuck? </p>
silera
11-07-2006, 07:05 AM
<p>Whore it up a bit tomorrow and ask her if she likes your outfit.</p>
MHasegawa
11-07-2006, 07:05 AM
drop some exlax in the cunts coffee<br />
<p>She is just jealous of your beauty and general awesomeness.</p><p>Though it's annoying, I wouldn't worry too much about the gossipy comments of a disliked worker who is lacking any credibillty --- and has no business with you other than sharing common space.</p>
<strong>MHasegawa</strong> wrote:<br />drop some exlax in the cunts coffee<br /><p>Or drop some coffee in her cunt.</p>
Tall_James
11-07-2006, 07:07 AM
<p>Tell your boss that this woman is creating an uncomfortable working environment for you. You shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense and you would like for him to tell her to knock it off.</p><p>Let your boss have first shot at it, that's what he's getting paid for. </p><p>Then if that doesn't work, go over to her desk and staple her drooping tits to the tabletop.</p>
grlNIN
11-07-2006, 07:08 AM
<p>She is EASILY 250lbs so i don't get where she comes off.</p><p>If anything I should be offended that she is a massive creature and cannot go one day without VPL.</p><p> </p><p>*EDIT*</p><p>My Boss is only here with me one day a week and she is a very nonconfrontational person. So i'm not sure if telling her would be pointless, she has no authority over this other worker seeing as she isn't employed by us. </p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by grlNIN on 11-7-06 @ 11:11 AM</span>
Tall_James
11-07-2006, 07:09 AM
<strong>grlNIN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>She is EASILY 250lbs so i don't get where she comes off.</p><p>If anything I should be offended that she is a massive creature and cannot go one day without VPL. </p><p>Tell her that you don't appreciate being drawn in by her gravitational pull and dodging the satellites that circle her head.</p>
TheVHD
11-07-2006, 07:11 AM
<font size="2">She's obviously a bitter bitch who's husband left her for a young hottie like yourself... I would just kill her with kindness and watch her burn with jealousy.</font>
Tall_James
11-07-2006, 07:12 AM
<p>Flirt with her boss.</p><p>That will kill her.</p>
FUNKMAN
11-07-2006, 07:12 AM
<p>when you walk to the copier stop shaking it so much <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smile.gif" border="0" /></p><p>keep your cool NIN. if whoever told you is a reliable source and it bugs you too much just go up and ask the lady if she has any issues with you. if she says no then she'll get the message. if she says yes and tells you about them tell her it's none of her business and talk to your boss about it.</p>
grlNIN
11-07-2006, 07:23 AM
<p>It's a fairly new job, i don't want to make waves even if it isn't something that is going on directly within my office.</p><p>My friend is very reliable, she has problems with this lady constantly and walks on eggshells around her just to not deal with her bullshit. </p><p>I just don't understand why she would have something to say about me when i've never spoken more than three words to her and the fact that it wasn't just said aloud to herself but to actually say it to someone else? </p><p>That is repulsive.<br /></p>
FUNKMAN
11-07-2006, 07:27 AM
<strong>grlNIN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>It's a fairly new job, i don't want to make waves even if it isn't something that is going on directly within my office.</p><p>My friend is very reliable, she has problems with this lady constantly and walks on eggshells around her just to not deal with her bullshit. </p><p>I just don't understand why she would have something to say about me when i've never spoken more than three words to her and the fact that it wasn't just said aloud to herself but to actually say it to someone else? </p><p>That is repulsive.<br /></p><p>you just happen to be in her area, she's like a grenade and you got hit with some of her shrapnel(?)</p><p>just don't let it fester inside you, she's not worth it. and if you find that you can't let it go you have to speak up. </p>
Don Stugots
11-07-2006, 07:30 AM
<p>go out with her son and break his heart. seriously, since this is the thats life forum, the best thing you can do is ignore it and do your job. as you stated no one likes this person so she is really just talking to herself and her thoughts do not matter. you know that you dress fine, if there was a problem with the way you dress your boss would have to tell you. </p><p> </p><p>now, can we see what you are wearing? </p>
Furtherman
11-07-2006, 07:37 AM
<strong>grlNIN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I just don't understand why she would have something to say about me when i've never spoken more than three words to her and the fact that it wasn't just said aloud to herself but to actually say it to someone else? </p><p>That is repulsive.<br /></p><p>You better get use to it. You're 21. Just entered the work force? A woman such as you described is probably very unhappy and very bitter and she sees a young lass such as yourself and remembers that she was once, or perhaps never, like that and chances are she has no one outside the office to talk to so it just comes out. </p><p>If it is just about what you are wearing, ignore it. Actually, every once in a while go out of your way to be kind to her and if she takes a liking to you personally, then she'll feel guilty. And wouldn't you want her to feel guilty? </p>
Kurtis9
11-07-2006, 07:44 AM
<p>I'm sure she's just jealous she can't dress the same way you do. Office jobs just suck like that, I know all too well, too much drama and not enough of just people minding their own business and actually earning that paycheck.</p><p>As Dexter kinda said, just keep dressing the way you are dressing, it will help your cause.</p>
angrymissy
11-07-2006, 08:25 AM
<p>I've been an admin for almost 10 years now.</p><p>There is always one, cunty, fat, older admin who is jealous of the younger, slimmer, smarter ones. ALWAYS. Just ignore them and revel in the fact that she is a fatass and jealous. There will be one everywhere you work. The boss will not want to hear about it. There's one at my current job (not too bad), and there were ones at the 2 jobs before (huge cunty bitches, all fat).</p>
angrymissy
11-07-2006, 08:26 AM
<p>PS - What you are describing is TOTALLY APPROPRIATE business casual dress, and sounds similar to what I wear to work. </p><p>And the cunty one at my last job would rat me out every chance she got, breaking the admin code. When my boss was on vacation I slipped out a whopping 15 minutes early every day and she TOLD HIM when he came back. Meanwhile, she was taking 4 day sick days because of her "asthma attacks" (most likely brought on by fatness).</p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by angrymissy on 11-7-06 @ 12:29 PM</span>
grlNIN
11-07-2006, 08:35 AM
<p>I stopped into her office to check some paperwork with her and i could see her look me up and down with such a face. I waited across from her desk for her to hand them back when she made a "joke" about how many skirts i own. So i replied "One for each day that i work here ma'am". </p><p>I like to think of myself as a modest person so all these "well she's bitter about not being young and hot and now youre in the office" type comments kind've embarrass me because frankly, i dont consider myself anything above average but she does outweigh me about 110lbs, so i have that on her.<br /></p>
angrymissy
11-07-2006, 08:36 AM
Yes, make sure to call her Ma'am as well. Remind her that she's old and washed up.
grlNIN
11-07-2006, 08:38 AM
<p>Dude, she leaves for lunch every day about 45 minutes to an hour late. Her boss finally stood up and said that she is pushing mine and my friend's lunches back and to go ON TIME.</p><p>So what does she do?...She has her stupid mini-chunk of a daughter come in every day of the week to go to lunch with her but SURPRISE her daughter can never get here on time.</p><p>Fucking whore. </p>
Doctor Z
11-07-2006, 08:46 AM
If she doesn't work for the same company, she can't affect your job security, no matter how much she badmouths you. Hence... she doesn't exist.
<strong>angrymissy</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I've been an admin for almost 10 years now.</p><p>There is always one, cunty, fat, older admin who is jealous of the younger, slimmer, smarter ones. ALWAYS. Just ignore them and revel in the fact that she is a fatass and jealous. There will be one everywhere you work. The boss will not want to hear about it. There's one at my current job (not too bad), and there were ones at the 2 jobs before (huge cunty bitches, all fat).</p><p>Missy's right. In the government we call them GS-3s. This is as far as they will ever get in life so, while wallowing in their own obese misery, they have to rub it off on everyone else.</p>
grlNIN
11-07-2006, 09:01 AM
<p>No, she can't get me fired but she can and obviously does make it highly unpleasant for a lot of the employees who work here, whether it's her office or my office. </p><p>Her talking shit doesn't affect my job but it does. I don't want this negative vibe floating around because of her mouth, i know it won't stick, at least i hope it hasn't and doesn't. I seem to be on good terms with everyone here but then again i don't really get into "office mode" and chat it up with everyone here. I stay cordial and i stick with my work until i leave.<br /></p>
MadBiker
11-07-2006, 05:51 PM
<p>Geez, Missy and grlNIN, are you sure you don't work in my office? </p><p>Missy you are so right, there is always one cunty fatass who takes long lunch, lots of sick days, and leaves early but thinks she is above reproach, while she sticks it to everyone else. I hate admin work. It fucking sucks.</p><p>grlNIN, only your immediate supervisor or department head should be the one telling you about appropriate/inappropriate dress in the workplace. If your boss had a problem with it, or had lots of complaints about it, s/he will bring it up to you to correct the issue. Until you hear from a Supervisor or your Manager, don't worry about it. </p><p>I'm willing to bet that Cunty Fatass violates dress code a lot too - in my office "business casual" is the dress code, and our office CF takes that to mean capri sweatpants, tshirts and keds sneakers. I guess she just can't fit into anything else. </p>
Contra
11-07-2006, 10:42 PM
If this cunt is unpopular with many in the office, what makes you think what she says has influence on what others think?
I say ignore it. You are new there, and not everyone is going to want to be your friend, or even nice to you. It sounds like a jealousy thing. You are an attractive woman whether you think so or not. Let her wallow in her pitiful pastry filled life.
lintpit
11-08-2006, 01:03 AM
<em><font face="courier new,courier,monospace" size="3">So, she is fat AND miserable. The chick obviously has some serious self-esteem issues.Your insane hotness just cements in her mind what a mutt she is. make a little science experiment out of her.I bet you can totally change her attitude if you can get her to change her look .</font></em>
spoon
11-08-2006, 01:26 AM
<p>This is way too common with women in the workplace and it's fucking ridiculous. Or should I say redonkulous for such a "hopster" like Ninner! Personally I see this in my work as well at big corporate meetings and love to fuck with those involved, especially the assholes like this one. Sure I'm not directly involved but love to put them in their places and confront them in a way that embarrasses them in front of important people. They deserve as much. I actually did this in a round about way with some company heads recently bc they were so fucking catty and acted like a fifth grade kid. I like to keep work lighthearted and fun, but some people always have to make it about themselves and or love to put others down bc that's all they know. </p><p>Truthfully I'd have some fun with it but not take it too far. The best choice is to be polite but frank with her and that should get her off your back bc she'll learn you don't stand for it regardless of who she is, who she works for, what her age is and who she thinks is higher in seniority whether or not she works in the same company. She'll find someone else to fuck with, but perhaps will learn her lesson if you and your friend do it with respect and stick together. I'd love to come in and act like I'm your man and mess with her a little. Come on Ninner, you know me enough, I'll keep it on the level but put her in her place. Deal?</p>
reeshy
11-08-2006, 01:31 AM
<strong>STUGOTS1</strong> wrote:<br /><p>go out with her son and break his heart. seriously, since this is the thats life forum, the best thing you can do is ignore it and do your job. as you stated no one likes this person so she is really just talking to herself and her thoughts do not matter. you know that you dress fine, if there was a problem with the way you dress your boss would have to tell you. </p><p> </p><p>now, can we see what you are wearing? </p><p>Nah...fuck that.....go out with her daughter!!!!!!!</p>
Fezticle98
11-08-2006, 01:49 AM
<strong>TheVHD</strong> wrote:<br /><font size="2">She's obviously a bitter bitch who's husband left her for a young hottie like yourself... I would just <font size="4"><strong>kill her with kindness</strong></font> and watch her burn with jealousy.</font> <p>What is she, the TLC Killer? wocka wocka!</p>
sr71blackbird
11-08-2006, 01:55 AM
I am kind of confused by the office set up. Is it an office within another office? Does this women work for the office your office is within? Does this mean she doesnt for for your boss? If so, she is not your co-worker and what difference does her opinion make?<br />Just wear what you want and if your boss is non confrontational, you really have nothing to worry about, because even if this woman says something, your boss will probably never confront you about it. Maybe also mix up your styles; sometimes wear more traditional outfits (more coverage), and sometimes not. Its getting colder anyway. This woman is probably jealous because she cant get away with it and will never be as hot as you. Even if she lost weight, shed still be as fat as Kristy Alley
grlNIN
11-08-2006, 09:59 AM
<p> </p><strong>sr71blackbird</strong> wrote:<br />I am kind of confused by the office set up. Is it an office within another office? Does this women work for the office your office is within? Does this mean she doesnt for for your boss? If so, she is not your co-worker and what difference does her opinion make?<br /><p> </p><p> </p><p><span class="postbody">It's a typical 9 to 5 and <strong>our office is located within a larger
Non-Profit office.</strong></span> </p><p><span class="postbody">My Boss is only here with me one day a week and
she is a very nonconfrontational person. So i'm not sure if telling her
would be pointless, <strong>she has no authority over this other worker seeing
as she isn't employed by us</strong>.</span> </p> <p><br />Her talking shit doesn't affect my job but it
does. I don't want this negative vibe floating around because of her
mouth, i know it won't stick, at least i hope it hasn't and doesn't.</p><p> </p>
<p>You have to completely ignore her. It'll drive her crazy and probably lead to her embarassing herself over the situation. that's my 2 cents.</p>
El Mudo
11-08-2006, 10:39 AM
<p><span class="postbody">You better get use to it. You're 21. Just
entered the work force? A woman such as you described is probably very
unhappy and very bitter and she sees a young lass such as yourself and
remembers that she was once, or perhaps never, like that and chances
are she has no one outside the office to talk to so it just comes out. </span></p><p> </p><p>Couldn't
agree with this sentiment more. When I was 16 and got my first
job (which I'm still at now almost 8 years later) my dad gave me one of
the best pieces of advice I ever got. He said "you're going to
get your feelings hurt at one time or another, but you can't take it to
heart" </p><p> </p><p>Its just the way jobs work in
general. At some point, youre going to have to deal with an
unpleasant situation, and I found in time they generally work
themselves out, either the offending party leaves or in my case,
i get transferred away.</p><p> </p><p>If you really like this job
and want to do it for a long time, at some point youre going to have to
learn to deal with unpleasant/unfair situations, and just roll with
them. Some people really are bastards, but there's really not a
whole lot you can do about it.</p><p> </p><p>Hope it works out for ya </p>
sr71blackbird
11-08-2006, 01:46 PM
<strong>grlNIN</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>sr71blackbird</strong> wrote:<br />I am kind of confused by the office set up. Is it an office within another office? Does this women work for the office your office is within? Does this mean she doesnt for for your boss? If so, she is not your co-worker and what difference does her opinion make?<br /><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><span class="postbody">It's a typical 9 to 5 and <strong>our office is located within a larger Non-Profit office.</strong></span> <p> </p><p> </p><span class="postbody">My Boss is only here with me one day a week and she is a very nonconfrontational person. So i'm not sure if telling her would be pointless, <strong>she has no authority over this other worker seeing as she isn't employed by us</strong>.</span> <p> </p><p> </p><br />Her talking shit doesn't affect my job but it does. I don't want this negative vibe floating around because of her mouth, i know it won't stick, at least i hope it hasn't and doesn't. <p> </p><p> </p><p>Wow, I was kind of hoping my words would have helped you, but I guess they didnt. Sorry.</p>
foodcourtdruide
11-08-2006, 05:38 PM
<strong>grlNIN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>A little background. an office job through the week. It's a typical 9 to 5 and our office is located within a larger Non-Profit office. </p><p>My boss is only here with me one day a week and the other people in my office come and go about two to three times a day, maxing at hour long visits. So basically, i am left alone in our office to do work.</p><p>Today i am here, not even an hour and a half. I walk to and from the copy room and when i get to my desk my friend and fellow employee who is also my age sends me a message saying that the other Administrative Assisstant was saying very inappropriate things about me when i left my office.</p><p>Now, this is another female and she is a co-worker but that is only because we share office space, we don't work for the same organization. She's older, maybe her late 40's and very, very rude. From what i gather no one in the building can stand her and avoids her at all costs.</p><p>I was told that she was making snide remarks about the way i dress for work. That someone should tell me to "cover up" and dress "more appropriately" . Now, I'm 21 years old and i understand that there is an age gap and whatever but my office is business casual and i am young. I wear skirts that are always at a fingertips length at least and sweaters or clean button down shirts.</p><p>I am baffled, i have NO fucking clue what to even think about what she said, let alone if i should confront her about it. I feel like i should defend myself in some way because this is NOT how i want to come across to the other people here but at the same time i know i don't dress anything short of what is appropriate for both my age and what my boss allows. </p><p>What the fuck? </p><p>Just ignore her. You'll always run into people like her. They tend to go away as quickly as they come into your life.</p>
Landblast
11-08-2006, 05:53 PM
<p><em>you can't ignore her because she said shit about you, so theres one <strong>true</strong> thing you can do.</em></p><p><em>approach her and ask her about it. because>>>>>>>> <strong>your the one in control.</strong> shit, get back to us on this one!</em></p><p><em>this is your fuckin world, she's just talking about you in it. </em></p>
<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Landblast on 11-8-06 @ 9:57 PM</span>
Who cares what the old bitch thinks anyway
FUNKMAN
11-08-2006, 06:21 PM
next time you head down to the local drugstore if you need cough drops or something ask her if she needs you to pick up any wrinkle cream
<p> </p><p>Honestly, I think you should follow spoons advice, let her know you wont stand for it, OR you could kill her with kindness and make her feel guilty, like Furtherman said!!</p><p> </p><p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br />next time you head down to the local drugstore if you need cough drops or something ask her if she needs you to pick up any wrinkle cream </p><p>Haha!!! YEAH!</p><p>OR; you could just take the "tuna" route. When she's not around take a nice big can of tuna, and pour the juice all around on the carpet of her office, it will stink forever and she will never know where its coming from. Good times, good times. </p>
BYOBKenobi
11-08-2006, 10:06 PM
<p>That sucks. I'm sorry to hear you're going through these problems.</p><p> </p><p>(didn't you guys learn anything from Ronnie?)</p>
IrishAlkey
11-09-2006, 12:32 AM
Bring me to work with you tomorrow and we'll fuck on her desk.
<strong>Gaia</strong> wrote:<br /><p>OR; you could just take the "tuna" route. When she's not around take a nice big can of tuna, and pour the juice all around on the carpet of her office, it will stink forever and she will never know where its coming from. Good times, good times. </p><p>If she's what I'm picturing, she is probably used to that smell.</p>
blakjeezis
11-09-2006, 05:56 AM
<p>Is there something about chicks in business apparel that is insanely hot, or is it just me?</p><p> </p><p>As to your problem, Ninny, when she's out to lunch, get a screwdriver or what have you and pop out and switch the N and M keys on her keyboard.<br /></p>
<strong>blakjeezis</strong> wrote:<br /><p>Is there something about chicks in business apparel that is insanely hot, or is it just me?</p><p>Hell no! That's why I miss working in downtown DC. The eye candy during lunch hours was magnificent...especially during warmer weather.</p>
JustJon
11-09-2006, 09:32 AM
<p> </p><strong>Gaia</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><p>Honestly, I think you should follow spoons advice, let her know you wont stand for it, OR you could kill her with kindness and make her feel guilty, like Furtherman said!!</p><p> </p><p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br />next time you head down to the local drugstore if you need cough drops or something ask her if she needs you to pick up any wrinkle cream </p><p>Haha!!! YEAH!</p><p>OR; you could just take the "tuna" route. When she's not around take a nice big can of tuna, and pour the juice all around on the carpet of her office, it will stink forever and she will never know where its coming from. Good times, good times. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>But they share the same office... </p>
yomudder21
11-09-2006, 09:39 AM
<p>Here is what the problem is.............</p><p>WOMEN ARE AWFUL AT WORK! THEY WANT EVERYTHING IN LIFE TO BE AN EPISODE OF DYNASTY. </p>
DJEvelEd
11-09-2006, 03:59 PM
<p>Why didn't your friend stick up for you? If some fat cunt said something to me about a friend of mine, I would say:</p><p><strong>DJEvelEd: </strong>Listen (Cunt X).....(Cunt Y) is my friend! I would appreciate if you kept your opinions to yourself you fat nasty slob. The next time that you say something about (Cunt Y) I'm gonna follow you home and set fire to your cunt pet (Cunt Z).</p>
<strong>JustJon</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>Gaia</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><p>Honestly, I think you should follow spoons advice, let her know you wont stand for it, OR you could kill her with kindness and make her feel guilty, like Furtherman said!!</p><p> </p><p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br />next time you head down to the local drugstore if you need cough drops or something ask her if she needs you to pick up any wrinkle cream </p><p>Haha!!! YEAH!</p><p>OR; you could just take the "tuna" route. When she's not around take a nice big can of tuna, and pour the juice all around on the carpet of her office, it will stink forever and she will never know where its coming from. Good times, good times. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>But they share the same office... </p><p> Well if thats the case I apologize, I thought maybe they were in the same building, but shared two seperate offices/cubicles. </p>
sr71blackbird
11-10-2006, 01:24 AM
<strong>Gaia</strong> wrote:<br /><strong>JustJon</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><strong>Gaia</strong> wrote:<br /><p> </p><p>Honestly, I think you should follow spoons advice, let her know you wont stand for it, OR you could kill her with kindness and make her feel guilty, like Furtherman said!!</p><p> </p><p><strong>FUNKMAN</strong> wrote:<br />next time you head down to the local drugstore if you need cough drops or something ask her if she needs you to pick up any wrinkle cream </p><p>Haha!!! YEAH!</p><p>OR; you could just take the "tuna" route. When she's not around take a nice big can of tuna, and pour the juice all around on the carpet of her office, it will stink forever and she will never know where its coming from. Good times, good times. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>But they share the same office... </p><p> Well if thats the case I apologize, I thought maybe they were in the same building, but shared two seperate offices/cubicles. </p><p>I'm glad I am not the only one confused by this office set up! Don't you see how it makes all the difference in the world?</p>
grlNIN
11-10-2006, 05:23 AM
<p>It's not complicated to understand if you read properly.</p><p>I didn't tell the story in hieroglyphics.</p>
<strong>grlNIN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>It's not complicated to understand if you read properly.</p><p>I didn't tell the story in hieroglyphics.</p><p>Here, this will help. Compliments of Monsieur Champollion:</p><p><img height="827" src="http://www.katapi.org.uk/images/Inscriptions/RosettaStone640w.gif" width="640" border="0" /></p>
keithy_19
11-13-2006, 11:30 PM
<strong>grlNIN</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I was told that she was making snide remarks about the way i dress for work. That someone should tell me to "cover up" and dress "more appropriately" . Now, I'm 21 years old and i understand that there is an age gap and whatever but my office is business casual and i am young. I wear skirts that are always at a fingertips length at least and sweaters or clean button down shirts.</p><p>Pics?</p>
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