NYC Cops kill black man near Strip club [Archive]

WRESTLINGFAN

11-26-2006, 04:30 AM

Shit might hit the fan. Sharpton is already all over this <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061126/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061126/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting</a> 

This message was edited by WRESTLINGFAN on 11-26-06 @ 8:33 AM

mendyweiss

11-26-2006, 04:52 AM

oy

Bulldogcakes

11-26-2006, 05:00 AM

<img src="http://www.nec.edu/academics/departments/polisci/images/as2.jpg" border="0" width="318" height="410" />"ITS GONNA BE A LOOONG HOT . . . . . fuck! It's November."

Sheeplovr

11-26-2006, 05:25 AM

50 is the new 41

phixion

11-26-2006, 06:16 AM

is anyone going to mention that the cops were wrong or are we just going to get upset about al sharpton?

Tenbatsuzen

11-26-2006, 06:35 AM

phixion wrote: is anyone going to mention that the cops were wrong or are we just going to get upset about al sharpton? I will.  The worst case scenario is that the guys were drunk, talking shit, got into the car, didn't see the undercover cop, and brushed him driving away.  It also sounds like the striking of the vehicles was done AFTER the shooting, so it's possible that one of the shots hit the driver, and he lost control of the car. It really sounds like NYPD is way in the wrong in this.  Way.

FUNKMAN

11-26-2006, 06:36 AM

phixion wrote: is anyone going to mention that the cops were wrong or are we just going to get upset about al sharpton? An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, they drove forward — striking him and a nearby undercover police vehiclei'm not taking any sides. there are two sides to every story. if the guys were trying to run the officer down then in my eyes they deserved it, kill or be killed. again it's too early to lay judgement and you need all the facts which may never happen.

Tenbatsuzen

11-26-2006, 06:38 AM

FUNKMAN wrote: phixion wrote: is anyone going to mention that the cops were wrong or are we just going to get upset about al sharpton?  An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, they drove forward — striking him and a nearby undercover police vehicle i'm not taking any sides. there are two sides to every story. if the guys were trying to run the officer down then in my eyes they deserved it, kill or be killed. again it's too early to lay judgement and you need all the facts which may never happen. Officer was undercover.  The vehicle that was hit was also unmarked.  I'm thinking this is a DUI gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Tenbatsuzen

11-26-2006, 06:44 AM

You also have to understand to read between the lines when it comes to news articles.  The article says they "moved forward and struck the police officer" - not that they clipped him doing 40 MPH.  They also said that the vehicle hit a police van. Here's what I'm thinking.   Officer tries to get in front of the car.  Guys are drunk.  They brush him, he pulls a gun and starts shooting.  Driver of the car panics, not realizing he's a cop, and tries to do a hard turn to get away from the scene.  Hits the undercover police van.  More shots are fired.

ChrisTheCop

11-26-2006, 07:42 AM

I am shocked. I am outraged.How the hell is there a strip club in this town that Ive never heard of or been to?Unbelievable.

Tenbatsuzen

11-26-2006, 07:47 AM

ChrisTheCop wrote: I am shocked. I am outraged.How the hell is there a strip club in this town that Ive never heard of or been to?Unbelievable.   Front page of the Post tomorrow: "NYC Cops Make Light of Shooting - Sharpton Even More Outraged"

furie

11-26-2006, 08:02 AM

while 50 rounds, 31 coming from just one officer and no fire being returned is excessive, it's understandable to be a bit punchy after being assaulted with a vehicle

This message was edited by furie on 11-26-06 @ 12:38 PM

furie

11-26-2006, 08:03 AM

Sheeplovr wrote: 50 is the new 41 

Bravo!

FezPaul

11-26-2006, 08:11 AM

Don't ya see Jerry? This gets me off the hook!<img src="http://www.seinfeld-fan.net/pictures/kramer/kramer014.jpg" border="0" width="240" height="180" />

UnknownPD

11-26-2006, 08:12 AM

ChrisTheCop wrote: I am shocked. I am outraged.How the hell is there a strip club in this town that Ive never heard of or been to?Unbelievable.  Is Queens really "This Town?

This message was edited by UnknownPD on 11-26-06 @ 12:12 PM

UnknownPD

11-26-2006, 08:16 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: You also have to understand to read between the lines when it comes to news articles.  The article says they "moved forward and struck the police officer" - not that they clipped him doing 40 MPH.  They also said that the vehicle hit a police van. Here's what I'm thinking.   Officer tries to get in front of the car.  Guys are drunk.  They brush him, he pulls a gun and starts shooting.  Driver of the car panics, not realizing he's a cop, and tries to do a hard turn to get away from the scene.  Hits the undercover police van.  More shots are fired. I don't mean to break your balls, but you make a lot of assumptions and have no idea of the facts.

ChrisTheCop

11-26-2006, 08:16 AM

I, unlike others it would appear, prefer to learn more about a news story before jumping way over to any conclusion. Way.Since I'm not being allowed to just have fun while we wait, allow me to be the white devil's advocate: Although at first indication, based on the MEDIA (who's never gotten anything wrong) it would appear that this is a "bad" shoot, we dont know all the facts. You say we need to read between the lines, but you only want to read  between certain lines. What about the line where Kelly says there may have been a fourth passenger who left the scene? If there WAS a gun...IF....PERHAPS he was the one who had it. There will be an investigation, several investigations in fact. The truth will come out; and unless you were at the scene, youre gonna have to wait til the whole story is released before drawing a conclusion that you can truly believe.For now, can we just get back to making fun of Sharpton who has proven to be a joke even in the darkest of circumstances? I know he's doing what he believes to be his job, but you dont have to be white to roll your eyes when you see him attached to any topic.

Tenbatsuzen

11-26-2006, 08:35 AM

UnknownPD wrote: Tenbatsuzen wrote: You also have to understand to read between the lines when it comes to news articles. The article says they "moved forward and struck the police officer" - not that they clipped him doing 40 MPH. They also said that the vehicle hit a police van. Here's what I'm thinking.  Officer tries to get in front of the car. Guys are drunk. They brush him, he pulls a gun and starts shooting. Driver of the car panics, not realizing he's a cop, and tries to do a hard turn to get away from the scene. Hits the undercover police van. More shots are fired. I don't mean to break your balls, but you make a lot of assumptions and have no idea of the facts. When did I ever say "these were the facts" or "This is what happened"?  I presented a scenario, preceeded with the phrase, "Here's what I'm thinking".  The news media uses terms like "struck" and "collided", to indicate a rate of speed that wasn't really there.  "Collided" to most people could indicate the front end of a car destroyed, where it COULD mean in this scenario that maybe a mirror was taken off or the side was brushed up. In a situation like this, you can't help but make assumptions.

Tenbatsuzen

11-26-2006, 08:36 AM

ChrisTheCop wrote: For now, can we just get back to making fun of Sharpton who has proven to be a joke even in the darkest of circumstances? I know he's doing what he believes to be his job, but you dont have to be white to roll your eyes when you see him attached to any topic.    I hate to say it, but Sharpton's come a long way in respectability in my eyes since the Tawana Brawley mess.  He's still an arrogant blowhard, but at least he picks and chooses his spots.

phixion

11-26-2006, 08:38 AM

For now, can we just get back to making fun of Sharpton who has proven to be a joke even in the darkest of circumstances? wow i love this lets forget that a man was killed on his wedding day after in all likelyhood commiting no crime yeah lets just forget him he has no value in our society.THIS IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE HATE COPS.al sharpton for all his silliness is fighting for something he believes in. i bet your the type of people who would make fun of him for fighting for abner louima who got fucked up the ass with a broomstick by NY's finest. shit. make fun of gandhi to he was fuckin dot head, who cares if india wants to be sovereign nation. fuck.

ChrisTheCop

11-26-2006, 08:49 AM

Phix, you of course have a point there. However, no one, not even Tenbats, was forgetting the tragic death of a man. Speaking for myself, I was merely pulling an Al Sharpton by immediately sticking up for the rights of the people I can most closely identify with (I'm a cop).The death of this man is tragic, and it would appear, again only by the media accounts,  that if anyone in that car was armed, it was not him. He was of course driving, but there may be mitigating factors for his actions, perhaps just simply trying to get away from a bad situation, or the cop failed to id himself, or even perhaps intoxication. The fact of the matter is that he was killed by another human being on what was to be his wedding day. And that is horrific.  My intention was not to take away from that, but barring him or his relatives or friends being members of this board, I dont think it awful to discuss other factors surrounding the incident.

UnknownPD

11-26-2006, 08:55 AM

Nothing good ever come out of the mix of alcohol, testerone and guns

JimBeam

11-26-2006, 09:00 AM

Phix I understand your point but accusing police officers of raping a girl, with no evidence or at the very least no real evidence, is a little more than " silliness " no ?How are you supposed to take his opinion on something righteous, like the Louima incident, serious when you know that he's already backed the wrong horse in a previous incident ?He was good on SNL a few years ago though.

phixion

11-26-2006, 09:01 AM

chris i understand that. and that last post was quite eloquent. but your post before that simply wanted to make fun of al sharpton, and right now al sharpton is simply trying to do what he believes is right. dont get me wrong most of the time i think he's a idiot but u previous post mde it seem as though u wanted to forget the guy and just focus on al sharpton.

sailor

11-26-2006, 09:03 AM

phixion wrote:  For now, can we just get back to making fun of Sharpton who has proven to be a joke even in the darkest of circumstances?  wow i love this lets forget that a man was killed on his wedding day after in all likelyhood commiting no crime yeah lets just forget him he has no value in our society.THIS IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE HATE COPS.al sharpton for all his silliness is fighting for something he believes in. i bet your the type of people who would make fun of him for fighting for abner louima who got fucked up the ass with a broomstick by NY's finest. shit. make fun of gandhi to he was fuckin dot head, who cares if india wants to be sovereign nation. fuck. "THIS IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE HATE COPS."  what reason?  the shooting?  yes, it may have been a bad shooting, or it may have been justified.  even if it was a bad shooting, it's clear the officers involved didn't think so...they thought one of their own was in danger from people claiming to have a gun.  if that's why you're saying people hate cops how is it any different from saying "THIS IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE HATE BLACKS" after hearing about some random blacks involved in a crime? in any event, sharton IS a joke.  he speaks for no one.  he is a clown who just cares about self-promotion.

ChrisTheCop

11-26-2006, 09:10 AM

Probably the 1st time in my life Ive been called Eloquent. Thanks.Nevertheless, that was not my intention at all. I meant that we should wait for all the facts to come out before making a judgement on ANYONE.  And then made a suggestion that until then, we make fun of someone who (I believed at the time) we could all agree was worthy of being made fun of for his past antics.

JimBeam

11-26-2006, 09:12 AM

Phix everbody hates cops until they need one.I have no problem going with segregated public service if you think that'll help people trust them more.Black cops in black neighborhoods. Black fireman in black neighborhoods.Vice versa for all other areas that have a predeominant racial makeup.That shoud clear up the mistrust issue and prevent another black man from ever being shot again.It'll be such a great place maybe we could take away the guns and carry only batons like the English dudes.

Davios

11-26-2006, 09:14 AM

There are many things that Sharpton has done which have been incredibly beneficial to society. That being said, it is the ridiculous things he involves himself with that take away all his credibility. "A large contingent of top-name rappers is soon expected to descend on Havana in an effort to help end the cultural embargo between Cuba and the United States. The Rev. Al Sharpton was in Havana last week, where he met with Castro and talked about the possibility of bringing a massive hip-hop concert to the island. Sharpton had never been to Cuba, and he asked for a meeting with Castro. The Cuban president agreed and the two had lunch. "We talked about the embargo and how we might bring it down," Sharpton told me. "If Bill Clinton can go to North Vietnam and bring down those walls, African-Americans should be able to start doing business in places like Cuba. We can bring in concerts, sporting events."  When a guy is comparing going to Vietnam and trying to do serious work to bringing a big rap concert to Cuba similar, how am I then supposed to sit back and nod my head in agreement when I see his name appear. I'm sorry but I can't.

lleeder

11-26-2006, 10:08 AM

I'm surprised people still have bachelor parties the night before the wedding. It can only lead to problems.

JimBeam

11-26-2006, 11:03 AM

Yeah that's the thing that sucks the most.Whether this guy did anything wrong or not he's now got a fiance and 2 kids sitting at home that no longer have a husband/father.

Tenbatsuzen

11-26-2006, 12:04 PM

ChrisTheCop wrote: Probably the 1st time in my life Ive been called Eloquent. Thanks.  Isn't being eloquent part of being... wait for it... wait for it... CLASSY?

DarkHippie

11-26-2006, 12:17 PM

I don't understand the need to fire that often.  With 50 bullets flying around it makes it much more likely that a bystanders is going to get hit.  I know its policy, but why?

JimBeam

11-26-2006, 12:40 PM

Its probably not actually policy to continue shooting after reloading when there's no continued threat.With that said without being in that situation we'd never know what " feels right ".We can sit back and say " Oh yeah they should've only fired once each " but that's not so easy when you're the one perceiving what should've been a life threatening expereince.Textbook it was probably done wrong but as any police officer can probably tell us, whether or not  they've ever discharged their weapon, textbooks don't make traffic stops.

phixion

11-26-2006, 12:44 PM

chris this isnt against you okay.my best friends brother is a cop. and behind my back he has called me a sand nigger. in front of my face he has called black people niggers. he has boasted about ignoring 'those animals' who have asked him for help. my brother has a horrible record. one day he's with some friends when they are busted over something. the cops pat him down see he has a box cutter that he needs for his job as a stock boy ina  grocery store. the cops without having anyone saying this person was associated witht he crime his friends are being accused of bring him in. hes 19 and an adult at the time while his friends are 17. once taken in for questioning the DA gets signed confession from the two friends of my brother the DA tells them that he'll get them off if they testify against my brother and his horrible record. they do. my brother is sentenced to 10 years in a maximum security prison for something he did not commit. since my brother had no choice and had to plead guilty. once the sentence was handed down my brothers 'friend' came up to me and my mother and confessed that my brother had nothing to do with it and he took the deal. the cops went along with it.my friend the day before thanksgiving was busted for marijuana possession right outside my house. now at least every fucing hour a dt car, a police van, or a regular squad drives past my house and goes real real slow in front of my car. Phix everbody hates cops until they need one. so jim to answer this fuck the police i can go the rest of my life without ever seeing a cop again. their the fucking scumbags in highschool who liked to pick on everyone but they were to stupid to accomplish anything in their lives. so they think about it and realize that by being a cop they can still pick on people. nothing personal chris im sure ur a stand up guy who does the right thing far more often than notit's clear the officers involved didn't think so..so we're just supposed to concede that police did the right thing just because they believed so? so if the police justify fucking a prisoner up the ass with a broomstick thats all hunkeydorey becasue they felt it was 'necessary force'? get your head out of your ass.

furie

11-26-2006, 01:36 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">DarkHippie wrote: I don't understand the need to fire that often. With 50 bullets flying around it makes it much more likely that a bystanders is going to get hit. I know its policy, but why?<hr color="cococo" align="left">

It's not policy. policy doesn't set a bullet upper limit. you shoot until the threat ceases to be a threat.

I can't imagine there are too many bystanders at 4am

This message was edited by furie on 11-26-06 @ 5:37 PM

ChrisTheCop

11-26-2006, 01:40 PM

I think I can go "all in" on the bet that there is NO ONE currently on the NYPD who thinks that what happened to Abner Louima in that bathroom was justified, legal, or even funny.I'm not asking that you ever forget that incident happened; it's an important moment in NYC history. I just dont see it in the same category as the Diallo shooting or what occurred this morning.Again, tomorrow, or some other time when th einvestigation is concluded, if we find out that the officers stalked these guys because they were black, or had dealings with them in the past, or if the cops turn out to be mafia hitmen, whatever.... I will certainly condemn their actions. That time is not yet here.We have to seperate the sadness we feel for the family of this man, from the reasons which led to his being shot. Did he know they were cops? Was there a gun? Were any of the shots fired from a gun other than pd? Was he intox? What was the initial argument all about? etc....There are two extreme directions in which the truth can go; on the side of the cops, or on the side of the victim. But perhaps theres a more reasonable middle ground. We wont know until all investigations are complete, and the truth is known.And I'll agree with you that the reason most people hate cops is that the cops have had some kind of negative dealings with them, or their families...not because they post jokey jokes on a messageboard.Tenbats: Thanks for remembering that I was indeed once considered CLASSY...a long long time ago.  I'd almost forgotten.

joeyballsack

11-26-2006, 01:41 PM

phixion wrote: chris this isnt against you okay.my best friends brother is a cop. and behind my back he has called me a sand nigger. in front of my face he has called black people niggers. he has boasted about ignoring 'those animals' who have asked him for help. my brother has a horrible record. one day he's with some friends when they are busted over something. the cops pat him down see he has a box cutter that he needs for his job as a stock boy ina  grocery store. the cops without having anyone saying this person was associated witht he crime his friends are being accused of bring him in. hes 19 and an adult at the time while his friends are 17. once taken in for questioning the DA gets signed confession from the two friends of my brother the DA tells them that he'll get them off if they testify against my brother and his horrible record. they do. my brother is sentenced to 10 years in a maximum security prison for something he did not commit. since my brother had no choice and had to plead guilty. once the sentence was handed down my brothers 'friend' came up to me and my mother and confessed that my brother had nothing to do with it and he took the deal. the cops went along with it.my friend the day before thanksgiving was busted for marijuana possession right outside my house. now at least every fucing hour a dt car, a police van, or a regular squad drives past my house and goes real real slow in front of my car. Phix everbody hates cops until they need one.  so jim to answer this fuck the police i can go the rest of my life without ever seeing a cop again. their the fucking scumbags in highschool who liked to pick on everyone but they were to stupid to accomplish anything in their lives. so they think about it and realize that by being a cop they can still pick on people. nothing personal chris im sure ur a stand up guy who does the right thing far more often than notit's clear the officers involved didn't think so.. so we're just supposed to concede that police did the right thing just because they believed so? so if the police justify fucking a prisoner up the ass with a broomstick thats all hunkeydorey becasue they felt it was 'necessary force'? get your head out of your ass.Your just as judgemental and discriminatory as anyone you would find at a Klan rally. Do you suppose in your interactions with police officers that your attitude towards them may come across as hostility towards them ?Maybe in your brothers situation you should assign the blame to your brothers friends, who lied to police to get themselves out of trouble, instead of the police.

phixion

11-26-2006, 02:01 PM

Your just as judgemental and discriminatory as anyone you would find at a Klan rally. Do you suppose in your interactions with police officers that your attitude towards them may come across as hostility towards them ?Maybe in your brothers situation you should assign the blame to your brothers friends, who lied to police to get themselves out of trouble, instead of the police. as far as my brothers situation i wouldve killed the sonofabitch already if ihadnt made a promise to my brother that id be there the day he got out. if i didnt make that promise iw ouldve already thrown away my future make no mistake about this. and right now i dont know what im going to do the day after my brother gets out. but apparentlyyou missed the point of the story completely they told the police the truth they gave tehm a signed confession teh da tossed it out to go after the person withthe worse record. so no the guy didnt lie to the cops he lied to the judge after the da told him to.and i dont have interactions with cops i stay the fuck away and everytime a cop has pulled me over and treated me like ahuman being i treated all of them with respect. now the ones who feel like because they have a badge that means they are always right i let them know that they are being assholes and i take my ticket. and this is the best part when i go in front of the traffic judge and the judge says they were wrong to give me a ticket for stopping in a no parking zone, or telling me i was using my cell phone and driving when it was in my pocket, and the judge only had to look at my phone bill to see the cops were wrong. each one of those times i gave those cops a big shit eating grin.and as far as me being judgemental ill make it specific. there are good cops out there just not nearly enough. there are cops out there who dont treat people like shit. and there are cops who dont treat there job as a power trip and realize their job is to SERVE the community, not the other way around.this goes for cops co's da's everyone in our justice system: they are more concerned about making arrests and getting convictions than they are doing the right thing.again sorry chris if ive alienated you i dont mean to. its a broad generalization. 

This message was edited by phixion on 11-26-06 @ 6:03 PM

Davios

11-26-2006, 02:02 PM

phixion wrote: my house. now at least every fucing hour a dt car, a police van, or a regular squad drives past my house and goes real real slow in front of my car.   I had a friend who was in the same exact situation and has cop cars go down his block on a regular basis. It is actually common practice, that if there is a specific area where the police feel drugs are being held then they focus on that place. The fact that it was in front of your house really sucks, but maybe you should have made it known to friends of yours that you don't want them bringing drugs around your place. I'm sorry but there is no way that I'm going to feel like police are doing something wrong because they are trying to find people with drugs on them. Yes, I understand it is just pot and I was around it plenty when I was younger. I realize it is a silly thing to get so crazy about, but its the law. Your friend sure as hell knew if he was smoking in front of your house and a cop passed by he would get stopped. On a sidenote, you are making ALOT of generalizations. I'm not sure if you see it or not but the same way you come up with stereotypes regarding cops, people come up with the same generalizations in regards to race. I don't see how you can confidently claim all of these things as facts and then be insulted by racist comments from a cop. You're both wrong.

phixion

11-26-2006, 02:16 PM

chris i bring upt hat case because people are using 'the police made a judgement call' as an argument, and my response to this was this incident. because we cant ever jsut give the police a license to do what they feel is necessary because its a 'judgement' call' thats all. because we give them that excuse once then they can use it everytime things dont go thier way. and davios we can subtract the weed thing completely. if youw ant to talk about drugs in general my neighborhood is filled with them, but weed? i can go out walk three blocks right now and get crack if iwanted the dude is probably on the corner right now. but in NYC marijuana is decriminalized. so in essence you get busted with possession of marijuana and you get inconvenienced and a fine. thats all. i dont see th epoint in putting that much man power into a fine. but i guess i should have mentioned that yesterday when inoticed this i had to wash my car. when i put up a camera to face me while i washed my car a cop car drove by and once noticing the camera sped past. so s/he knew what they were doing was wrong, yet they were doing it anyway. they knew they had no grounds to stop me for anything yet they want to try

Brujo

11-26-2006, 08:03 PM

I think the cops involved are black and Latino, so enough of blaming whitey on this one. Let's just wait for the real facts to come out before we lynch these cops, okay? And by the way, black on black crime is destroying the inner cities, so stop the cop bashing and wake up. New York Police have a much better record with brutality than most cities, including my city Miami, where the cops don't even show up at times. As for Sharpton, he's a buffoon, and he's milking this tragedy for his own self-promotion.

sailor

11-27-2006, 02:49 AM

phixion wrote: chris this isnt against you okay.my best friends brother is a cop. and behind my back he has called me a sand nigger. in front of my face he has called black people niggers. he has boasted about ignoring 'those animals' who have asked him for help. my brother has a horrible record. one day he's with some friends when they are busted over something. the cops pat him down see he has a box cutter that he needs for his job as a stock boy ina grocery store. the cops without having anyone saying this person was associated witht he crime his friends are being accused of bring him in. hes 19 and an adult at the time while his friends are 17. once taken in for questioning the DA gets signed confession from the two friends of my brother the DA tells them that he'll get them off if they testify against my brother and his horrible record. they do. my brother is sentenced to 10 years in a maximum security prison for something he did not commit. since my brother had no choice and had to plead guilty. once the sentence was handed down my brothers 'friend' came up to me and my mother and confessed that my brother had nothing to do with it and he took the deal. the cops went along with it.my friend the day before thanksgiving was busted for marijuana possession right outside my house. now at least every fucing hour a dt car, a police van, or a regular squad drives past my house and goes real real slow in front of my car.  Phix everbody hates cops until they need one.  so jim to answer this fuck the police i can go the rest of my life without ever seeing a cop again. their the fucking scumbags in highschool who liked to pick on everyone but they were to stupid to accomplish anything in their lives. so they think about it and realize that by being a cop they can still pick on people. nothing personal chris im sure ur a stand up guy who does the right thing far more often than not it's clear the officers involved didn't think so.. so we're just supposed to concede that police did the right thing just because they believed so? so if the police justify fucking a prisoner up the ass with a broomstick thats all hunkeydorey becasue they felt it was 'necessary force'? get your head out of your ass. didn't think my head was in my ass, but whatever.  my point was that the cops were doing what they saw as right, NOT just having fun shooting black people (what it appears you think).  it's nothing like louima, which you seem to tie it in with, repeatedly.  also, i never said they did the right thing.  as for your brother, it sounds like they thought he WAS involved so offered a plea to the lesser criminals.  it happens.  i'd definitely be more angry at your "friends" than the police.  and personally, i'd LOVE to have police patrolling outside my door constantly.  from your tales (your brother having a record and being at the scene of another crime and drug deals outside your door) it sounds like it would be a good thing for your family.

sailor

11-27-2006, 02:50 AM

Brujo wrote: I think the cops involved are black and Latino, so enough of blaming whitey on this one. Let's just wait for the real facts to come out before we lynch these cops, okay? And by the way, black on black crime is destroying the inner cities, so stop the cop bashing and wake up. New York Police have a much better record with brutality than most cities, including my city Miami, where the cops don't even show up at times. As for Sharpton, he's a buffoon, and he's milking this tragedy for his own self-promotion. and enough of the black on black crime talk.  what, should blacks just go out and rob from koreans?  does that make it alright?

WRESTLINGFAN

11-27-2006, 05:51 AM

Charles Barron, NYC Councilman: "Don't ask us to ask our people to be peaceful while they are being murdered. We're not the only ones that can bleed."This guy is just as bad maybe worse than Sharpton, not the 1st time he has run his mouth over race issues

Tenbatsuzen

11-27-2006, 06:00 AM

Brujo wrote: I think the cops involved are black and Latino, so enough of blaming whitey on this one. Let's just wait for the real facts to come out before we lynch these cops, okay? And by the way, black on black crime is destroying the inner cities, so stop the cop bashing and wake up. New York Police have a much better record with brutality than most cities, including my city Miami, where the cops don't even show up at times. As for Sharpton, he's a buffoon, and he's milking this tragedy for his own self-promotion. I think you may be right on this one.  Nor the Post or the News made any inclination it was white cops, and if they were, they would have been all over it. Plus the location - a seedy bar in Queens - I'm guessing a white undercover cop would have stuck out JUST a bit.

Doctor Z

11-27-2006, 06:12 AM

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/06/fall.tv.report/michael.richards.show.jpg"Whew!"

angrymissy

11-27-2006, 06:30 AM

Wow, that is freaking crazyDo they not realize that the cops were comprised of 2 black men, 1 hispanic and 2 white men?  So I suppose the black cops were not shooting?  This guy is basically threatening a race riot.While I think 50 shots may be excessive, I cannot judge the cops... I don't know what I would do if I was a cop in that situation and thought my life was in danger. WRESTLINGFAN wrote: Charles Barron, NYC Councilman: "Don't ask us to ask our people to be peaceful while they are being murdered. We're not the only ones that can bleed."This guy is just as bad maybe worse than Sharpton, not the 1st time he has run his mouth over race issues

reillyluck

11-27-2006, 06:40 AM

Brujo wrote: I think the cops involved are black and Latino, so enough of blaming whitey on this one.  http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j33/flagypsy46/dancingboy.gif

Bulldogcakes

11-27-2006, 02:22 PM

I listened to the <a href="http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/" title="Mayors press conference">Mayors press conference</a> about this. I expected the usual boiler plate crap, but was actually suprised at the language he used. He referred to the incident as "inexplicable" and "unacceptable" how there could be 50 shots fired at an unarmed man. He also couched that by saying theres an investigation and he didn't want to pre-judge it, but with the facts as they know them at this point clearly the Police did not follow protocol. What I learned: #1-Even if the car was used as a deadly weapon, the police are NOT supposed to use deadly force in that situation.#2-The Police had no shields and were in plainclothes. It was an undercover investigation, so thats not unusual.   I dont want to pre judge this either, but it looks really bad for the cops.  I can draw up a scenario where everybody is telling the truth, and this still happens. THe Cops claimed that they overheard someone in the bar have an argument and say they were going outside to get their gun. Hearing this, the groom decides to leave (I know I'D leave the bar if I heard someone say that). He gets in his car and sees a man with his gun drawn, claiming to be a cop, showing no badge. He panics, thinking he's either being robbed or this is some friend of the pissed off guy in the bar. He backs up his car, banging into the unmarked police car which likely had him pinned. He backs up again, the cops see his shifting gears as a possible attempt to reach for the gun they think he has. They open fire, the car is still moving right at them, so they keep firing until he stops.       

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-27-06 @ 6:59 PM

Tenbatsuzen

11-27-2006, 02:58 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote: I listened to the <a href="http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/" title="Mayors press conference">Mayors press conference</a> about this. I expected the usual boiler plate crap, but was actually suprised at the language he used. He referred to the incident as "inexplicable" and "unacceptable" how there could be 50 shots fired at an unarmed man. He also couched that by saying theres an investigation and he didn't want to pre-judge it, but with the facts as they know them at this point clearly the Police did not follow protocol. #1-Even if the car was used as a deadly weapon, the police are NOT supposed to use deadly force.#2-The Police had no shields and were in plainclothes.  I dont want to pre judge this either, but it looks really bad for the cops.  Sharpton's involved to get a payday for the families and then a donation to his church. Anyone else who claims "race riot" is a fucking idiot.

Bulldogcakes

11-27-2006, 03:06 PM

Tenbatsuzen wrote:Sharpton's involved to get a payday for the families and then a donation to his church. Anyone else who claims "race riot" is a fucking idiot.  I agree that turning this into a black/white thing is wrong, on both sides. And its sickening the way most of the press is running this story, presenting this as Al Sharpton VS White America. But I will admit this. I cant remember the last time something like this happened to a white guy in NYC. Are Cops more suspicious of Balcks? Maybe. Do Blacks resist more often, maybe. It just seems to happen over and over for whatever reason. TB, any sympathy for the guy who died, his family and his bride? BTW-They DESERVE a payday, and a huge one.  

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-27-06 @ 7:07 PM

DJEvelEd

11-27-2006, 03:27 PM

I hope that groom had a real X-Mas tree in his house.

Tenbatsuzen

11-27-2006, 03:31 PM

Bulldogcakes wrote:TB, any sympathy for the guy who died, his family and his bride? BTW-They DESERVE a payday, and a huge one.  WTF?  I said the cops were probably in the wrong.  I'm not blaming the victim.  It's a damn shame what happened, but it's hard for me to generate sympathy for a person I do not know.

BYOBKenobi

11-27-2006, 04:04 PM

if they fired 200 shots I wouldn't call it excessive.  Put yourself in his shoes.  You think someone's trying to kill you, you don't care if you lose your job, you just want to stay alive.  You fire until they can't fire back.  Have you ever watched any of the cop shootings that are on the net?  Sometimes there are 10 cops with rifles unloading on someone who points a gun at the cops.I give the police all the freedoms they want.  If they want to be a cocksucker to me?  Great!  Why?  Because I don't have to carry a gun.  I can walk the streets and know if I get in trouble they are trained and ready to help me.  If they shoot too early here and there, GREAT!  Why?  Because I don't want them to shoot too late.You have to break a few eggs if you want that ham and egg breakfast!You know what else?  Stop breaking the law.  If you take liberties with the law, then the police cracking down on your way of life is a direct result.  If you have a record, stop breaking the law.  If they are patroling outside your house because someone broke the law there, then that's their right.  STOP BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!A reason that most people (at least that I know) will side with the cops in this situation is because they know for a fact that they woudln't be in the same situation.  Seedy strip joint at 4am.  I've been a fan of strippers as long as I can remember, but there are some places you just don't go.  Drug busts and plea bargains?  Not in my life because.... I DON'T BREAK THE LAW!  Would I like to smoke a joint here and there?  You bet your ass.  Do I think it's wrong?  No.  Do I do it?  Nope, because IT'S AGAINST THE LAW AND I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE THE COPS PULL GUNS ON!I've had police weapons turned on me twice.  Both times I received an appology.  I handled both situations, as a white guy, buy doing everything they said and being super careful not to make any sudden moves.  I even announced when I throught I was going to sneeze.  You treat the cops like they will shoot you because they might have to if you dont.  I have a lot of friends in law enforcement all over the east coast and they weren't the kids that got picked on.  In fact, they were just average guys like everyone else.  Played sports, hung out, went 4 wheeling, drank a ton of beers.  Not popular, not unpopular.  They are great people.  I don't think that EVERYONE is the same, but I give every cop the benefit of the doubt.Again, they carry guns and wear bullet proof vests so I don't have to.  Even if they are snippy, they deserve my respect for that.

Tenbatsuzen

11-27-2006, 04:08 PM

BYOBKenobi, thanks for your insight. Now... Outside of a possible DUI, can you tell me where the crime happened?Nobody's been charged with a crime.And what strip club ISN'T seedy?

angrymissy

11-27-2006, 04:20 PM

Well, I did see a white guy in Westchester that got a shitload of guns pulled on him (cops surrounding car) because he looked like a suspect that the cops were chasing.He did not get shot, he slowly got out of the car as directed, hands up, and cooperated with the police, and they found out it was the wrong guy.

timhorton

11-27-2006, 04:39 PM

Black people, neeeegroes you say...I think there are a couple here in my town, they seem very nice. I think they work in the gov't...again they seem very nice..no need to shoot them....Native people on the other hand are a little troublesome....different in Canada eh?

BYOBKenobi

11-27-2006, 04:40 PM

I was pulled over for grand theft auto because someone stole my custom plates and when I went to the DMV and explained my plight they "took the stolen tag off and ordered me a new set."  When I was driving home 4 cop cars pulled me over and had me face down on the pavement along rt 31 north.They all had guns out and kept me there on the pavement for what felt like an hour.  They stopped traffic and created a nice little jam in my honor.After an hour waiting in my truck after I told him where to find both the police reports, my old plates, my registration, insurance card, and even all my old registration cards he let me go.Was I mad?  Nope.  It was satisfying to think about someone who DID steal a car getting treated like that.The other time was when a bunch of my friends and I were waiting outside a school at night for another friend who was going to bring us to a "welcoming party" for the australian exchange students being held by the exhange club.  A cop pulls into the lot and I reached into my car and shut it off because I didn't want him nervous my car was on.He stops behind my car, shines the light in my eyes, and starts barking orders.  I complied without question.  Once he stepped in front of the light I could tell he was pointing his gun at me.  After he searched my car (which I told him he could do... I had nothing to hide besides a bad report card aka one with a c+ on it inside my varsity jacket) I asked him if it was ok if we waited for our friend, told him where we were going and that we had no idea where the house was.  He said no, that it wasn't ok to be hanging out at a school after hours, so we all got in our cars (all 3 of them) and left.  Was I mad?  Nope.  It's his job, he thought I was reaching into my car for a weapon or to hide drugs.  He told me that afterwards and I understood he's got to look out for himself.  If he was just trapsing through life all loosey goosey and someone killed him I'd be more upset than if he was being a hardass and came out OK.

Tenbatsuzen

11-27-2006, 04:55 PM

BYOBKenobi wrote: I was pulled over for grand theft auto because someone stole my custom plates and when I went to the DMV and explained my plight they "took the stolen tag off and ordered me a new set." When I was driving home 4 cop cars pulled me over and had me face down on the pavement along rt 31 north.They all had guns out and kept me there on the pavement for what felt like an hour. They stopped traffic and created a nice little jam in my honor.After an hour waiting in my truck after I told him where to find both the police reports, my old plates, my registration, insurance card, and even all my old registration cards he let me go.Was I mad? Nope. It was satisfying to think about someone who DID steal a car getting treated like that.The other time was when a bunch of my friends and I were waiting outside a school at night for another friend who was going to bring us to a "welcoming party" for the australian exchange students being held by the exhange club. A cop pulls into the lot and I reached into my car and shut it off because I didn't want him nervous my car was on.He stops behind my car, shines the light in my eyes, and starts barking orders. I complied without question. Once he stepped in front of the light I could tell he was pointing his gun at me. After he searched my car (which I told him he could do... I had nothing to hide besides a bad report card aka one with a c+ on it inside my varsity jacket) I asked him if it was ok if we waited for our friend, told him where we were going and that we had no idea where the house was. He said no, that it wasn't ok to be hanging out at a school after hours, so we all got in our cars (all 3 of them) and left. Was I mad? Nope. It's his job, he thought I was reaching into my car for a weapon or to hide drugs. He told me that afterwards and I understood he's got to look out for himself. If he was just trapsing through life all loosey goosey and someone killed him I'd be more upset than if he was being a hardass and came out OK. The point you're missing is that outside of these guys being under observation, nobody tried to stop them, nobody showed a badge, nobody identified themselves as a police officer as far as I can see.  The guy got in front of the car, got tapped (as he was only treated for a cut to the shin - nothing else), and then it all went bad.  It wasn't a police stop, the guys in the car had NO IDEA anybody was a cop until they were in the hospital!

HeyGuy

11-27-2006, 06:03 PM

BYOBKenobi wrote: if they fired 200 shots I wouldn't call it excessive.  Put yourself in his shoes.  You think someone's trying to kill you, you don't care if you lose your job, you just want to stay alive.  You fire until they can't fire back.  Have you ever watched any of the cop shootings that are on the net?  Sometimes there are 10 cops with rifles unloading on someone who points a gun at the cops.I give the police all the freedoms they want.  If they want to be a cocksucker to me?  Great!  Why?  Because I don't have to carry a gun.  I can walk the streets and know if I get in trouble they are trained and ready to help me.  If they shoot too early here and there, GREAT!  Why?  Because I don't want them to shoot too late.You have to break a few eggs if you want that ham and egg breakfast!You know what else?  Stop breaking the law.  If you take liberties with the law, then the police cracking down on your way of life is a direct result.  If you have a record, stop breaking the law.  If they are patroling outside your house because someone broke the law there, then that's their right.  STOP BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!A reason that most people (at least that I know) will side with the cops in this situation is because they know for a fact that they woudln't be in the same situation.  Seedy strip joint at 4am.  I've been a fan of strippers as long as I can remember, but there are some places you just don't go.  Drug busts and plea bargains?  Not in my life because.... I DON'T BREAK THE LAW!  Would I like to smoke a joint here and there?  You bet your ass.  Do I think it's wrong?  No.  Do I do it?  Nope, because IT'S AGAINST THE LAW AND I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE THE COPS PULL GUNS ON!I've had police weapons turned on me twice.  Both times I received an appology.  I handled both situations, as a white guy, buy doing everything they said and being super careful not to make any sudden moves.  I even announced when I throught I was going to sneeze.  You treat the cops like they will shoot you because they might have to if you dont.  I have a lot of friends in law enforcement all over the east coast and they weren't the kids that got picked on.  In fact, they were just average guys like everyone else.  Played sports, hung out, went 4 wheeling, drank a ton of beers.  Not popular, not unpopular.  They are great people.  I don't think that EVERYONE is the same, but I give every cop the benefit of the doubt.Again, they carry guns and wear bullet proof vests so I don't have to.  Even if they are snippy, they deserve my respect for that.All I can say to this entire post is Wow!

lleeder

11-27-2006, 06:23 PM

BYOBKenobi, you say don't go to a seedy strip join at 4am. Thats usaully the best time to go between 2 and 4. When am I supose to look at coked up whores?

Yerdaddy

11-28-2006, 03:30 AM

BYOBKenobi wrote: if they fired 200 shots I wouldn't call it excessive.  Put yourself in his shoes.  You think someone's trying to kill you, you don't care if you lose your job, you just want to stay alive.  You fire until they can't fire back.  Have you ever watched any of the cop shootings that are on the net?  Sometimes there are 10 cops with rifles unloading on someone who points a gun at the cops.I give the police all the freedoms they want.  If they want to be a cocksucker to me?  Great!  Why?  Because I don't have to carry a gun.  I can walk the streets and know if I get in trouble they are trained and ready to help me.  If they shoot too early here and there, GREAT!  Why?  Because I don't want them to shoot too late.You have to break a few eggs if you want that ham and egg breakfast!You know what else?  Stop breaking the law.  If you take liberties with the law, then the police cracking down on your way of life is a direct result.  If you have a record, stop breaking the law.  If they are patroling outside your house because someone broke the law there, then that's their right.  STOP BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!A reason that most people (at least that I know) will side with the cops in this situation is because they know for a fact that they woudln't be in the same situation.  Seedy strip joint at 4am.  I've been a fan of strippers as long as I can remember, but there are some places you just don't go.  Drug busts and plea bargains?  Not in my life because.... I DON'T BREAK THE LAW!  Would I like to smoke a joint here and there?  You bet your ass.  Do I think it's wrong?  No.  Do I do it?  Nope, because IT'S AGAINST THE LAW AND I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONE THE COPS PULL GUNS ON!I've had police weapons turned on me twice.  Both times I received an appology.  I handled both situations, as a white guy, buy doing everything they said and being super careful not to make any sudden moves.  I even announced when I throught I was going to sneeze.  You treat the cops like they will shoot you because they might have to if you dont.  I have a lot of friends in law enforcement all over the east coast and they weren't the kids that got picked on.  In fact, they were just average guys like everyone else.  Played sports, hung out, went 4 wheeling, drank a ton of beers.  Not popular, not unpopular.  They are great people.  I don't think that EVERYONE is the same, but I give every cop the benefit of the doubt.Again, they carry guns and wear bullet proof vests so I don't have to.  Even if they are snippy, they deserve my respect for that.There are places where your ideal of cops having "all the freedoms they want" - shooting people on suspicion, not having or having to follow official procedures, freedom to deal with whomever they want harshly, etc.: Russia, Uzbekistan, Congo, Sudan, Saddam's Iraq, Iraq today, Somalia, Afghanistan under the Taliban... We refer to them officially as "unfree countries." You can read all about them in the State Department Country Reports on Human Rights and decide if you really think these pracitces will bring law and order to our streets or if it will only make problems worse.

sailor

11-28-2006, 11:46 AM

Tenbatsuzen wrote: BYOBKenobi wrote: I was pulled over for grand theft auto because someone stole my custom plates and when I went to the DMV and explained my plight they "took the stolen tag off and ordered me a new set." When I was driving home 4 cop cars pulled me over and had me face down on the pavement along rt 31 north.They all had guns out and kept me there on the pavement for what felt like an hour. They stopped traffic and created a nice little jam in my honor.After an hour waiting in my truck after I told him where to find both the police reports, my old plates, my registration, insurance card, and even all my old registration cards he let me go.Was I mad? Nope. It was satisfying to think about someone who DID steal a car getting treated like that.The other time was when a bunch of my friends and I were waiting outside a school at night for another friend who was going to bring us to a "welcoming party" for the australian exchange students being held by the exhange club. A cop pulls into the lot and I reached into my car and shut it off because I didn't want him nervous my car was on.He stops behind my car, shines the light in my eyes, and starts barking orders. I complied without question. Once he stepped in front of the light I could tell he was pointing his gun at me. After he searched my car (which I told him he could do... I had nothing to hide besides a bad report card aka one with a c+ on it inside my varsity jacket) I asked him if it was ok if we waited for our friend, told him where we were going and that we had no idea where the house was. He said no, that it wasn't ok to be hanging out at a school after hours, so we all got in our cars (all 3 of them) and left. Was I mad? Nope. It's his job, he thought I was reaching into my car for a weapon or to hide drugs. He told me that afterwards and I understood he's got to look out for himself. If he was just trapsing through life all loosey goosey and someone killed him I'd be more upset than if he was being a hardass and came out OK. The point you're missing is that outside of these guys being under observation, nobody tried to stop them, nobody showed a badge, nobody identified themselves as a police officer as far as I can see. The guy got in front of the car, got tapped (as he was only treated for a cut to the shin - nothing else), and then it all went bad. It wasn't a police stop, the guys in the car had NO IDEA anybody was a cop until they were in the hospital!  i believe the police version is different and they say they were identified before the guy tried to run one of them over.

phixion

11-28-2006, 12:06 PM

You have to break a few eggs if you want that ham and egg breakfast and hey while your at it why not use the constitution as kindling when you burn innocent people at the stake.and just for clarification the estimatd 10,000 innocent men in jail right now are all just 'broken eggs?'

ralphbxny

11-28-2006, 12:21 PM

Its gettin so a brother cant see breasts!!

Furtherman

11-28-2006, 12:21 PM

phixion wrote: and just for clarification the estimatd 10,000 innocent men in jail right now are all just 'broken eggs?'Yes, there are innocent men - and thanks to the advances in DNA, they are getting out.  But where do you get an estimation of 10,000 innocent men?

phixion

11-28-2006, 12:31 PM

if u read my above post about my brother, i looked into those advocate groups for prisoners/defandants rights. one of them had sent me some information about about it. and reading through it that number jumped out at me because ithought it was extremely low.

Furtherman

11-28-2006, 01:09 PM

10,000 is a lot.  I doubt our legal system is that pourous.  There are bad eggs out there, and when they commit a crime, they do the time.  You have to be careful about "advocate groups".  Yes, there are legit ones, and then there are ones who serve no purpose but their own and disregard facts.

TheMojoPin

11-28-2006, 01:13 PM

Phixion, please link your sources for that 10k number if you expect it to be taken seriously.

Fezticle98

11-28-2006, 01:31 PM

TheMojoPin wrote: Phixion, please link your sources for that 10k number if you expect it to be taken seriously. Probably a difficult statistic to estimate. However, in 2001 there were 1,319,000 people in prison in the U.S. <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html">http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html</a>That would mean that 1 out of 131.9 prisoners was actually innocent. Definitely believable, just difficult to prove. If we could prove they were innocent, they would be out.

Bulldogcakes

11-28-2006, 03:51 PM

Just to throw some more gasoline on the fire for the race baiters, it turns out the one white officer shot 31 of the 50 shots fired. I believe an NYPD officer gun clip holds 20 shots, so that means he unloaded his clip, reloaded, and shot 11 more times. All without a shot being fired at him. Police protocol says they're supposed to shoot no more than 3 times, then assess the situation and react accordingly. I think its fairly obvious he didn't do that. Though the minute they start shooting at a car with no weapon visible, they've already broken NYPD rules. I dont think this in any way reflects on the other 40,000 plus NYPD officers, but I'm with the Mayor in saying it looks pretty clear the force used was "excessive" in this particular case.     Phixion wrote: my best friends brother is a cop. and behind my back he has called me a sand nigger. in front of my face he has called black people niggers. he has boasted about ignoring 'those animals' who have asked him for help.     I agree Phix, stereotyping people is a bad thing.  Phixion wrote: so jim to answer this fuck the police i can go the rest of my life without ever seeing a cop again. their the fucking scumbags in highschool who liked to pick on everyone but they were to stupid to accomplish anything in their lives. so they think about it and realize that by being a cop they can still pick on people. nothing personal chris im sure ur a stand up guy who does the right thing far more often than not  But wait. It's OK to stereotype Cops? If you want to get on your high horse about racism and stereotyping, try not doing it yourself.       

This message was edited by Bulldogcakes on 11-28-06 @ 7:55 PM

DJEvelEd

11-28-2006, 09:23 PM

1) If the Diallo "Shoot To Wound" Bill was passed in Albany, the police would be compelled to submit to interrogations, drug & alcohol tests, and lie detectors within 48 hours. (These officers don't have to do ANYTHING for 48 hours!) The bill would have required that officers use deadly force "with the intent to STOP, rather than kill," a subject who is believed to be "using unlawful force." The officer should use "only the minimum amount of force necessary" to stop the suspect's flight or resistance, the bill specified. In his supportive memorandum, Senator David Paterson explained that "an officer would have to try to shoot a suspect in the arm or the leg….Further, the number of times an officer shoots a person should not exceed the minimal number necessary to stop the person. If one shot accomplishes the purpose, it is neither necessary nor appropriate for an officer to empty his barrel. The bill is intended to limit the use of force to the minimal amount needed." Sounded reasonable. Wonder why this bill didn't pass? Maybe our politicians suck ass?2) Lets end this idiotic war on sex and drugs! If drugs and whores were legalized, the importance of busting peoples balls for smokin weed and fuckin sluts for $$$ would be greatly diminshed and this incident may not have happened as these cops would (hopefully) be deterring murder, rape, robbery and other serious crimes instead of hanging out at a strip club.3) Why are cops allowed to drink on the job?          

This message was edited by DJEvelEd on 11-29-06 @ 1:45 AM