Who gives a shit about Iraq anyway? [Archive]

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Yerdaddy

12-01-2006, 03:56 AM

Right now there are major changes in our Iraq policies underway and what we will do in the future is extremely unceartain. This is due to the recent change in political power in Washington - not just the dems taking over, but the fact that the president now has no more domestic elections to consider in devising Iraq policy. The firing of Rumsfeld is related to this change in the political landscape for the administration, as is the timing of the end of the work of the Iraq Study Group, which is set to present its reccommendations on the 6th, (portions of which have already been leaked, as is the norm). Oddly enough the supposedly liberal mainstream media has waited until after the elections to begin to describe the situation as a "civil war", a definition it has met the requirements for for a long time now. For me this means there's alot to wrap my head around in order to figure out what will probably happen next - determining from all the sources what the real situation on the ground is, understanding what all the new policy reccommendations are, then predicting what the newly-altered administration will decide to do, and finally predicting what outcome of those policies will be based on all of this plus how the players in Iraq will respond. Why do I feel I need to do this? Because I'm insane. I don't want to do this. I don't really have to do this. I've got better things I could be doing with my time. But, I'm compulsively driven to continue to follow what's happening and I can't NOT do it. So, I'll be doing this over the next week or so that I'm stuck here in Egypt. So, while I'm trying to sort all the information out and make sense of it, (without a laptop, which sucks ass), here's the question I have for all of you: How much do you care about what happens in Iraq? Just a general question, not about who's right or wrong, or about what anybody should or should not do about it, but about how important what happens over there, and what we do about it, is for America?Scale of 1 to 10 - 1 being care a little + 10 being care alot.

El Mudo

12-01-2006, 04:17 AM

Where's "Pee In My Butt"?

furie

12-01-2006, 06:04 AM

El Mudo wrote: Where's "Pee In My Butt"?

that would be 1

Furtherman

12-01-2006, 06:39 AM

I see in the paper today that Iraq will be able to take care of itself by June 2007.Finally.  I can't wait to watch democracy flourish like a spring flower.

A.J.

12-01-2006, 06:57 AM

Furtherman wrote: I see in the paper today that Iraq will be able to take care of itself by June 2007.Finally.  I can't wait to watch democracy flourish like a spring flower. That's because a fair amount of shit will make a flower grow.

K.C.

12-01-2006, 07:01 AM

First off, I do care about quite a bit (about an 8 to be exact). The problem is that there is no course of action we can take that will lead to a favorable outcome. We either leave troops in indefinitely and making them targets, or we withdraw only to have Iran swoop in and take control and declare it as a victory, thus strengthening the position of some of the Anti-American states. If we're going to stay in...fine, but we know the price of that. If we start to leave, ok, but we'd better figure out some way to neutralize Iran's influence in Iraq before we do.  This was a lose/lose situation from the very beginning, as soon as the war was launched. Removing Saddam Hussein is having the exact same effect of the Soviet Union pulling out of that region back in the 80-90s. Because that strong figurehead is gone, everyone is grabbing for power and compromise is about the last thing on anyone's mind over there. I'm not saying we shouldn't have removed Saddam...I'm just saying how we misjudged the reaction and consequences of that is beyond me.

johnniewalker

12-01-2006, 08:17 AM

I care 10 because I'm glad not because of how the situation is turning out, but because I am still hopeful that this was a good thing to do in the long run. Our actions have delayed this from happening, but its opened a nation to another nation for better or worse. It's important to take out the proper lessons from this thing. Like after Nam with the War Powers Resolution, the executive power needs to be watched over even closer in long term wars like this. Rumsfeld came out like the scapegoat because he felt the responisbility to take on the whole task. He shouldn't have been allowed to be in that position of total control, and this goes against a long standing tradition of seperation of powers, but I think we've seen time and time again the problems with too much discretion in the executive branch in military operations. He acted like a politician when he drew up his plan, and failed to the detriment of many, but should he have had to shoulder this whole thing. I don't think he had to. It also shows a need for restraint in these types of situations. People have an unprecedented access to news as well as opinions. The possibility of long extended wars like this staying popular is small. Politicians simply reasoning these problems out with overly simple statements and catchphrases has been proven wrong, and they can't make people happy by saying the same things over and over again with people as informed as they are now. I hope pols smarten up and realize the reach of their decisions when it comes to complex problems like this. We think terrorism is a large problem, and now Iraq has become important because of what we did. We need to oversee what happens, and its important to the region and our reputation regarding what happens in Iraq. 

This message was edited by johnniewalker on 12-1-06 @ 8:16 PM

BYOBKenobi

12-01-2006, 08:55 AM

1.why? a. I have no sayb. I don't really know what's going onc. To know what's really going on I'll have to watch every 5 minute news piece 3 times to get the full story due to the obvious ratings grabbers who slant their stories one way or the other.d. Even if I do read, listen, watch all the news and information I can... I still don't know what's going on (aka unless you're there you don't really know.)e. It will go the exact same if I watch or not.  Sure, if everyone had this opinion then we'd be in bad shape?  I know.  I am just opting out of my say.

kevcala

12-01-2006, 10:07 AM

furie wrote: El Mudo wrote: Where's "Pee In My Butt"?  that would be 1 *clapping hands*

Fez4PrezN2008

12-01-2006, 03:30 PM

I said 1 because before 1991 they were a 1, then shortly after the first little ruckus they were back to being a 1 and now that this last little bit bigger ruckus is dying down they are destined to go back to a 1. I don't really want to have to care about that country. As long as they are not a threat to us, let them duke it out between themselves. It's been that way over there for hundreds of years and isn't it kind of silly to think that we are going to change their culture. I am tired of hearing about them, I am tired of worrying about them.

sr71blackbird

12-01-2006, 04:07 PM

I said 9.  I think if we do not fix whats going on there and the "mess" we made, the US will look supremely weak and ineffectual and we WILL lose far far more than a simple conflict.  It is VERY important that we win this fucking thing and not the bullshit "cut and run" that many of you people want because you do not want to take the time to think or care what the outcome is other than US troops vacating the region.    If we leave and just let it dissolve on its own, believe me, we will live to regret it worse than any terrorism we have seen so far. Mark my words.

Bulldogcakes

12-01-2006, 05:29 PM

Well, I like to stay informed about whatever's in the news. And I care about our troops over there and want to see them be both safe and successful. I also am very disturbed by the estimated 100,000 Iraqis killed during this little adventure of ours. But honestly? A one. Break it up into 3 countries for all I care. Just get the fuck out of there and declare the Bush presidency a failure by every measure. The worst case scenario now is Bush not wanting to admit he's the failure that he is, and spending more people's lives for the sake of his ego.  He's already sending signals he doesn't give a shit what the Iraq study group comes back with. But what else did you expect from him.

Recyclerz

12-01-2006, 05:40 PM

I don't want to be Kasey Killjoy  but before we get too far down the road of "Iraq - that is so last election" here, I want to remind everybody that the Ron & Fez fan community has some skin in this game.  Dereck fischboy (sp?) has already shared with us that he lost a cousin in the war and there are several board members (and listeners/callers) who have served over there at least once with an uncertain horizon ahead.  So it does matter. sr71blackbird wrote: I said 9.  I think if we do not fix whats going on there and the "mess" we made, the US will look supremely weak and ineffectual and we WILL lose far far more than a simple conflict.  It is VERY important that we win this fucking thing and not the bullshit "cut and run" that many of you people want because you do not want to take the time to think or care what the outcome is other than US troops vacating the region.    If we leave and just let it dissolve on its own, believe me, we will live to regret it worse than any terrorism we have seen so far. Mark my words. SR - No one will disagree with you that bad things will happen when we leave Iraq.  The problem with your (and W's) scenario of "nothing less than Victory!" is you can't get there from here.  I would love to hear an even remotely possible plan to put this in the win column, but unless Jesus shows up again or somebody gives W a magic wand that works I can't figure out how it happens.  Sometimes adults have to make hard decisions and cut their losses.  If we can't get a decent outcome by staying we should leave now before we get any more of our guys killed even if that means W/Cheney/Rumsfeld/ Wolfowitz et al. have to stop pretending that they're drenched in the blood and stink of failure.edit: I started hunting & pecking before I saw BDC's post so mine is not a direct response to his.  I agree with his conclusions, but not his assessment of the importance of this fiasco.  we'll be paying the price of this for a generation. 

This message was edited by Recyclerz on 12-1-06 @ 9:45 PM