Taking Kids to Church [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

WhistlePig

12-07-2006, 09:49 PM

I am faced with this dilemma now that I have a kid. I haven't gone to
church --except for the occasional baptism or wedding--in 30+ years and
neither has my husband but we both think it's something we should take
the kid to. My parents took me when I was little but they're not religious at
all and quit going as soon as I said I didn't want to go anymore -- around
age 10. My husband had a much more religious upbringing including
attending Catholic school but hasn't practiced it in years. I'm dreading
having to go again. How am I going to bring my daughter up with some
kind of religion when I basically have none?

FUNKMAN

12-07-2006, 10:05 PM

i guess just pick a church close by that will have ya. i know it sounds kind of cheesy to just basically use a church for ceremonies like baptism, weddings, and funerals. i'm sure there are other ways to go about it but i'm not sure what they arei'm protestant but went to catholic grammar and high school. my dad took me and my 4 brothers to the protestant church in hoboken Gospel Hall and my mom never went. as we got older and would rather play football on sunday my dad stopped bringing us.  i look at it as he did his job, he introduced us to it and it was now up to us whether we wanted to continue with itwe lived on the 4th flr apt and my grandfather on the 1st flr. everytime we ran into my grandfather in the hallway he'd stop us, we'd give him a kiss and he always said the same thing in his strong italian accent "believe in Jesus" then he'd give us some change and always said as he shook his finger "don't buy no cigarrete"  That was almost 40 years ago and he somehow knew cigarettes were no good for ya

johnniewalker

12-07-2006, 10:07 PM

It really depends what you want out of it, and your thoughts of how influenced you child will be by it.   Its really become a person by person issue whether morals and values are even relevant in today's society.   I strongly believe that you can enjoy church and religion philosophically and religiously.  I think a misnomer in our society is that religious morals and values are distinguishable from other morals and values we rely on as the foundation of our society.  I think they are tied together, with the only difference with religion is faith.  Its kind of a tough choice in your situation, but I think it would be a good foundation for a kid.

PapaBear

12-07-2006, 10:08 PM

My church experience was almost nil. My parents didn't talk about it, either. I'm definitely not an atheist. Don't worry, WP. As long as you don't fill your little girl's head with crazy ideas, she'll figure out what's best for her, on her own. I know, you know a bit about my upbringing, so you know I'm not tossing out random BS about this. With my own kids, I took my parents indifference... added my own openness... and my kids are doing their own thing, too. Trust me. It works. When she asks you about religion, expose her to what she's interested in. Don't shy away from telling her your own feelings, but also try to point out the positive (and negative) aspects of any belief she asks about. In other words... Be yourself, and show her it's OK to be herself.

WhistlePig

12-08-2006, 12:22 AM

johnniewalker wrote: It really depends what
you want out of it, and your thoughts of how influenced you child will be by
it.ÿÿ Its really become a person by person issue whether morals and values
are even relevant in today's society.ÿÿ I strongly believe that you can enjoy
church and religion philosophically and religiously.ÿ I think a misnomer in
our society is that religious morals and values are distinguishable from other
morals and values we rely on as the foundation of our society.ÿ I think they
are tied together, with the only difference with religion is faith.ÿ Its kind of a
tough choice in your situation, but I think it would be a good foundation for
a kid. 

That's kind of what I'm missing--the faith. I do think it would be a good
foundation and I have strong morals and values. But how do I teach/fake
the faith part? Maybe I should just let her dad take care of it, though he
wants us to do it as a family. I think with his parents being so religious he is
too, deep down. I think it's scaring me to have to face this or something.

And Papabear, I know what you're saying would work--it did for my brother-
in-law's family. And their kids turned out great. But I don't think my
husband will go for it. He's really turning into a traditonal/conservative type
in his old age. Not that that's a bad thing really. I guess I'll just have to
learn to fake this religion thing. I think I''m also dreading the long, boring
Catholic masses! Yikes.

PapaBear

12-08-2006, 12:36 AM

I guess I'll just have to learn to fake this religion thing. I think I''m also dreading the long, boring Catholic masses! YikesYou know what, Mina? You're a damn good mom. Don't fake it, though. If you want to do this for Dad (and that's not a bad thing), just make sure you don't be a phony. Let your husband (and eventually, your daughter) know you are doing it for them. But make sure you let your daughter know your feelings, too. You can go along with it, without faking it.

booster11373

12-08-2006, 04:24 AM

Please! Please! Read this BookYou sound like a good person Did going to Church make you that way? My guess is not likely. Why not raise your child the way you want and then when your dagheter old enough try and figure it out then.<img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0618680004.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg" border="0" width="129" height="271" /><a href="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0618680004.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg"></a>

phixion

12-08-2006, 05:16 AM

really ten? i didnt want to go when i was 5. last time i went to church aside from my grandmothers funeral was my graduation from catholic grade school. in my opinion you shoukd take her but dont emphasize on it much. dont force jesus down her throat. just take her there kill sunday mornings and take her out to breakfast either before or after thatll make her happy.plus the added bonus: mommy why is the sky blue? because god wanted it that way.

FUNKMAN

12-08-2006, 05:57 AM

we used to sing songs at gospel hallI've Got A Mansion - right over the hilltopThe Blood Of The Lamb - there is power in the blood power in the bloodHe's Able - he's able he's able i know my lord is able to carry me through. he healed the broken hearted and set the captive free. he made the lame to walk again and caused the blind to see<img src="/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" width="20" height="20" /> good stuffthen they gave out candy bars at the end

AKA

12-08-2006, 06:09 AM

There are SOOOO many flavors of Christian faith that you don't have to pigeon-hole yourself into one denomination. You can find a church and a group that best fits in with you and your family. "The Church" gets a bad rap because a lot of people's first memories of it are of being forced to be around a bunch of crazy people, and it gets reinforced as adults by the ones who clamor for attention.I've been working with churches in Northern Virginia for a couple of years now (doing communications work), and while I personally haven't felt a deep religious moments of clarity (something that has happened with me only twice in my life - both as a teenager), I have the utmost respect for those that do, and a newfound understanding for those that have the calling to serve. Most churches have some sort of outreach program, which works closely with helping out those less fortunate in the community. Once a month, helping make sandwiches for Martha's Kitchen, can go a long way with helping reinforce a sense of connection with a larger world with young children. The Episcopal Church I work at half the time is very involved in work with inner city youth, to third world sponsorship of churches, to even Habitat homes in NoVa, and you will not find a less preachy crowd if you tried. A Methodist Church I know of in D.C. is very myopic in their international outreach - building homes for single mothers in 3rd world countries - may not seem like a big deal here, but if you've ever been to a poverty stricken 3rd world country it's a huge help.The Church School stuff you can take and shrug, or bite your lip. Some churches are very cool about putting historical perspective in with their lessons - again, the one I do a lot of work for made a big deal last year in having adult forums on the fact of how December 25th came to be recognized as the birth date of Christ - I was floored when I saw the word "Pagan" written in the program guide. I was reminded of The Simpsons episode where Lisa becomes a Buddhist ends with the observation that Buddhists can enjoy church and Christmas - if I had a gun to my head and had to label myself, I would say I am someone who would like to be Buddhist, but I can't make some of the big commitments - which is where I found myself, long ago, with Christianity. I eventually came to the belief that we will never know anything about anything - even when we die, we still won't be any wiser than we are here on earth, and in an odd way I am comforted by it.  

This message was edited by AKA on 12-8-06 @ 10:10 AM

Death Metal Moe

12-08-2006, 06:15 AM

Please Whistlepig, don't take your child to church.  Don't keep the greatest lie in human history going.You DO NOT need a religion to instill the good morals and values you want in your child.  You do that by being a good example for them, parenting properly and being there for them.All religion will do is set them up for the big let down.  And why even start if you think you're going to discontinue it as early as when you stopped?  It's not worth it for your child, and for your own piece of mind.  As you said, you'd have to fake it every Sunday.  Think of yourself a little too, why waste your time with something you've already decided doesn't belong in your life?If you're asking for opinions, mine is NO and the reasons are stated above.

johnniewalker

12-08-2006, 07:26 AM

WhistlePig wrote: johnniewalker wrote: It really depends what you want out of it, and your thoughts of how influenced you child will be by it. Its really become a person by person issue whether morals and values are even relevant in today's society. I strongly believe that you can enjoy church and religion philosophically and religiously. I think a misnomer in our society is that religious morals and values are distinguishable from other morals and values we rely on as the foundation of our society. I think they are tied together, with the only difference with religion is faith. Its kind of a tough choice in your situation, but I think it would be a good foundation for a kid.   That's kind of what I'm missing--the faith. I do think it would be a good foundation and I have strong morals and values. But how do I teach/fake the faith part? Maybe I should just let her dad take care of it, though he wants us to do it as a family. I think with his parents being so religious he is too, deep down. I think it's scaring me to have to face this or something. And Papabear, I know what you're saying would work--it did for my brother- in-law's family. And their kids turned out great. But I don't think my husband will go for it. He's really turning into a traditonal/conservative type in his old age. Not that that's a bad thing really. I guess I'll just have to learn to fake this religion thing. I think I''m also dreading the long, boring Catholic masses! Yikes. It's hard, you can always push certain ideas and leave others.   I think its up to you how much you think certain things will influence your child.   AKA did a great job explaining the stereotypes of religion, you can have a strtong literalist or you can also have churches that focus on how religion applies today.  Like he said too there are many more strands today than there used to be.    The only way I can I rationalize getting past faith, if you don't have it, is that you appreciate the phisophical angle of it.  I think as people we base our contemporary thought on equality and justice.   Two morals.  In my mind, when contemporary discussions disregard completely something as just a moral or value that can't be easily explained, its tearing at the foundation of our country and government.   They are ideals to be strived for.   Religion furthers justications for those ideals, not all of which are based on faith.  Thats why I think you can get past faith and not be having to fake it (I won't say enjoy, ha).  I respect the other arguments made by the others, but I think we all realize they are imperfect philosophie.  Its up to us to find one that we believe is the least imperfect.

Furtherman

12-08-2006, 07:51 AM

Death Metal Moe wrote: Please Whistlepig, don't take your child to church.  Don't keep the greatest lie in human history going.Quoted for truth.My child will never enter a church.  Nor go to a religious school.Unless you want your child to be brainwashed. You miss the faith?  The greatest gift you can give to your children it to teach them to have faith in THEMSELVES.  Have faith in their family.  Have faith in their friends.  Have faith in the learning of strangers and their cultures.  Teaching them that an all powerful being placed them here with expectations of doing this will only confuse, isolate and turn them prejudice when they find out the next kid has a different all powerful being expecting them to do that.

A.J.

12-08-2006, 07:54 AM

Furtherman wrote: Death Metal Moe wrote: Please Whistlepig, don't take your child to church.  Don't keep the greatest lie in human history going.Quoted for truth.My child will never enter a church.  Nor go to a religious school.Unless you want your child to be brainwashed. You miss the faith?  The greatest gift you can give to your children it to teach them to have faith in THEMSELVES.  Have faith in their family.  Have faith in their friends.  Have faith in the learning of strangers and their cultures.  Teaching them that an all powerful being placed them here with expectations of doing this will only confuse, isolate and turn them prejudice when they find out the next kid has a different all powerful being expecting them to do that.   Amen.

HeyGuy

12-08-2006, 08:06 AM

Death Metal Moe wrote: Please Whistlepig, don't take your child to church.  Don't keep the greatest lie in human history going.You DO NOT need a religion to instill the good morals and values you want in your child.  You do that by being a good example for them, parenting properly and being there for them.All religion will do is set them up for the big let down.  And why even start if you think you're going to discontinue it as early as when you stopped?  It's not worth it for your child, and for your own piece of mind.  As you said, you'd have to fake it every Sunday.  Think of yourself a little too, why waste your time with something you've already decided doesn't belong in your life?If you're asking for opinions, mine is NO and the reasons are stated above.Agree 100%.WP you say you nor your husband are really religious, so why do it just because you were raised with it being done to you? There is a reason you stopped going and or dont have that kind of faith. So if you dont feel the need of religion for yourself why do you feel your children do? I was raised catholic and now consider myself agnostic. One of my best friends was raised with no religion, he as an adult made the decision to be catholic and his brother has decided to continue with no religion. Neither one has more or less morals then a person born and raised religious?Did your children get baptised (sp)? If not then why start now? Goo luck in whatever you do, it just seems you are not sold on religion yourself.

phixion

12-08-2006, 09:33 AM

this doesnt deserve it own thread but how many people here have grown up completely devoid of any religious influence i mean ur immediate family. no christenings no confirmation, bar(t) mitzvah, no nothing? im just curious if all the peeple saying to avoid taking ur child to church came from religious families or the opposite or most likely the middle. just asking.

SatCam

12-08-2006, 12:47 PM

<hr color="cococo" align="left">How am I going to bring my daughter up with some kind of religion when I basically have none?<hr color="cococo" align="left">

Don't?

I grew up forced going to (Catholic) church every week when my parents started to feel guilty (every few years). I also had to go to religion classes every saturday morning from first grade to fifth (when I told my parents to cut the shit). I was baptized and made my first communion, but I never was confirmed.

My parents, having dealt with going to Catholic school all their life (plus being frugal and buying ShopRite seltzer), never sent any of us to Catholic school, but we still had to deal with church. It's brutal. It didn't change anything in my life. I think my parents were in the same situation as you... they weren't church-goers until a kid came along and they realized that she should go to church.

Now, if you wanted to take your kid to church to show him how terrible it is, then do what you want.

Don't take him/her to church. Tell him about religion when he gets older so he understands. When he's old enough, he'll decide if he wants to go to church, temple, mosque, meditate in the backyard, burn crosses or not practice/believe at all.

This message was edited by SatCam on 12-8-06 @ 4:48 PM

angrymissy

12-08-2006, 01:00 PM

SatCam wrote: How am I going to bring my daughter up with some kind of religion when I basically have none? Don't? I grew up forced going to (Catholic) church every week when my parents started to feel guilty (every few years). I also had to go to religion classes every saturday morning from first grade to fifth (when I told my parents to cut the shit). I was baptized and made my first communion, but I never was confirmed. My parents, having dealt with going to Catholic school all their life (plus being frugal and buying ShopRite seltzer), never sent any of us to Catholic school, but we still had to deal with church. It's brutal. It didn't change anything in my life. I think my parents were in the same situation as you... they weren't church-goers until a kid came along and they realized that she should go to church. Now, if you wanted to take your kid to church to show him how terrible it is, then do what you want. Don't take him/her to church. Tell him about religion when he gets older so he understands. When he's old enough, he'll decide if he wants to go to church, temple, mosque, meditate in the backyard, burn crosses or not practice/believe at all. This message was edited by SatCam on 12-8-06 @ 4:48 PM ^^^^Same thing he said.  Was also forced until I was old enough to bitch enough that they stopped making me.

K.C.

12-08-2006, 01:12 PM

I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing to expose a kid to religion. I'm in full agreement that you don't want to indoctrinate kids...that's complete bullshit. But exposure to it, with the preface of "this is one of the many belief systems people hold in this world," may not be a bad thing. The more a person learns about cultures, the better they will be able to interact with people. If you decide to do it, I would just emphasize to your kid that you're just teaching them that the belief exists and that he/she will have to make up their own mind when they're older as to if they want to believe in that, or some other religious belief, or some agnostic type thing, or nothing at all. 

This message was edited by K.C. on 12-8-06 @ 5:13 PM

Gvac

12-08-2006, 02:56 PM

As an old Catholic school boy, I have to agree with what the majority of people have said already.   There's no need to send a child to church to give them a sense of morality or "right and wrong."  Organized religion is one of the top culprits in dividing, not uniting, mankind.  I think a decent and moral parent (or parents) can teach a child far more than any church ever could, and without instilling fear of "Satan" and "Hell" and all the other archaic notions that religions foster. I think most kids brought up religiously tend to reject the belief system anyway, so why bother putting them through all the scare tactics in the first place?

BrownTown

12-08-2006, 03:17 PM

WhistlePig wrote: How am I going to bring my daughter up with some kind of religion when I basically have none? Why would you indoctrinate your child with something you and your husband believe is untrue?  Seems pretty crazy to me.For the record, my daughter is a Baptised Roman Catholic, my wife is a devout Roman Catholic and I am an Agnostic. I will not blatantly undermine my wife's desire to bring up our kid Catholic, as I don't think it's harmful per se (I was brought up Catholic and still figured out the "truth"), but when my daughter is old enough to make rational decisions for herself I intend to engage her in intelligent conversation about the concept of a higher power. Where she's goes with it from there is up to her. The thing is, the only reason I'm going along with the whole "Baptism, Catholic School, Confirmation Thing" until she's old enough for me to challenge her belief system is because those are my wife's beliefs. If neither you, nor your husband are card carrying members of the cult, why are you so hell-bent (all pun intended) on bringing up your kid that way.

torker

12-08-2006, 03:29 PM

<img src="http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=8468" border="0" width="258" height="300" />The younger, the better.

Death Metal Moe

12-08-2006, 03:47 PM

K.C. wrote: I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing to expose a kid to religion. I'm in full agreement that you don't want to indoctrinate kids...that's complete bullshit. But exposure to it, with the preface of "this is one of the many belief systems people hold in this world," may not be a bad thing. The more a person learns about cultures, the better they will be able to interact with people. If you decide to do it, I would just emphasize to your kid that you're just teaching them that the belief exists and that he/she will have to make up their own mind when they're older as to if they want to believe in that, or some other religious belief, or some agnostic type thing, or nothing at all. This message was edited by K.C. on 12-8-06 @ 5:13 PM Here's the problem with that.Thinking about all religions logically and trying to be objective just doesn't work.  Religions demand obedience, period.  You surrender  your free will to your God's plan for your life and preparations for your afterlife.  You can't "think outside the box" with religions.  It's all or nothing.Keeping the subject of religion away from a child is a bad idea too.  Discussing the topic and telling a child why you chose not to participate is important too.  I just think, and am glad to be with the majority on this one, that you don't need religion and shouldn't feel the need to force it on your kid for no reason Whistlepig.

WhistlePig

12-08-2006, 03:55 PM

Thanks for all your great input. It's really making me think. I don't want to
force anything on my kid. And I'm thinking I turned out pretty good
without being force fed, I've got strong morals and values and not because
I went to church. When my dad used to take me we'd just sit there and
draw pictures back and forth then go out for donuts afterwards. That's all I
remember about church.

johnniewalker

12-08-2006, 03:59 PM

Death Metal Moe wrote: K.C. wrote: I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing to expose a kid to religion. I'm in full agreement that you don't want to indoctrinate kids...that's complete bullshit. But exposure to it, with the preface of "this is one of the many belief systems people hold in this world," may not be a bad thing. The more a person learns about cultures, the better they will be able to interact with people. If you decide to do it, I would just emphasize to your kid that you're just teaching them that the belief exists and that he/she will have to make up their own mind when they're older as to if they want to believe in that, or some other religious belief, or some agnostic type thing, or nothing at all. This message was edited by K.C. on 12-8-06 @ 5:13 PM Here's the problem with that.Thinking about all religions logically and trying to be objective just doesn't work. Religions demand obedience, period. You surrender your free will to your God's plan for your life and preparations for your afterlife. You can't "think outside the box" with religions. It's all or nothing.Keeping the subject of religion away from a child is a bad idea too. Discussing the topic and telling a child why you chose not to participate is important too. I just think, and am glad to be with the majority on this one, that you don't need religion and shouldn't feel the need to force it on your kid for no reason Whistlepig. Actually if you surrendered your free will it would kind of defeat the purpose of many religions.  Its primary functions being choice, and therefore choosing a different path than sin.   Today's laws and societies demand obedience.  The point is that your choices should be made logically and justifiably.  I think the point many people blur is the line between faith and rational thought.  It's seperable.   I am no way condemning you DMM, but I think its a tad bit arrogant to assume over 2000 years of philosphy based on absolutes is completely false.   Some of the greatest minds of our race Kant, Plato, and Augustine all founded their theories on absolutes, and its something that religions also base their thought on.   It's not easy to seperate the type of reasoning behind religions and today's societies.

johnniewalker

12-08-2006, 04:00 PM

WhistlePig wrote: Thanks for all your great input. It's really making me think. I don't want to force anything on my kid. And I'm thinking I turned out pretty good without being force fed, I've got strong morals and values and not because I went to church. When my dad used to take me we'd just sit there and draw pictures back and forth then go out for donuts afterwards. That's all I remember about church.  Good luck, I'm sure you'll do fine.

Death Metal Moe

12-08-2006, 04:06 PM

johnniewalker wrote:  Actually if you surrendered your free will it would kind of defeat the purpose of many religions.  Its primary functions being choice, and therefore choosing a different path than sin.   Today's laws and societies demand obedience.  The point is that your choices should be made logically and justifiably.  I think the point many people blur is the line between faith and rational thought.  It's seperable.   I am no way condemning you DMM, but I think its a tad bit arrogant to assume over 2000 years of philosphy based on absolutes is completely false.   Some of the greatest minds of our race Kant, Plato, and Augustine all founded their theories on absolutes, and its something that religions also base their thought on.   It's not easy to seperate the type of reasoning behind religions and today's societies.  No, you have no choices in life.  You have to follow your religion's set of rules or you don't get your salvation.  You of course have the choice to either sleep with your girl now or marry her in the church and only have sex to procreate for example.  If I worded it incorrectly I apologize, I'll try to be more clear.You of course still have your free will but if you follow the gift God gave you in the wrong direction, you are damned.  Seems like a pretty sick fucking joke to me.

Fez4PrezN2008

12-08-2006, 04:45 PM

Matthew 19:14

Gvac

12-08-2006, 05:14 PM

Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Matthew 19:14Hey!No secret codes!

Fez4PrezN2008

12-08-2006, 05:51 PM

Gvac wrote: Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Matthew 19:14 Hey!No secret codes! god you're lazy... here ya goBut Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

torker

12-08-2006, 05:55 PM

Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Gvac wrote: Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Matthew 19:14 Hey!No secret codes! god you're lazy... here ya goBut Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.I thought this guy said that:<img src="http://www.esoterically.net/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/john-mark-karr.jpg" border="0" width="164" height="182" />

Gvac

12-08-2006, 06:04 PM

Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Gvac wrote: Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Matthew 19:14 Hey!No secret codes! god you're lazy... here ya goBut Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.Thanks, but you don't have to call me "god."

K.C.

12-08-2006, 07:46 PM

Death Metal Moe wrote: K.C. wrote: I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing to expose a kid to religion. I'm in full agreement that you don't want to indoctrinate kids...that's complete bullshit. But exposure to it, with the preface of "this is one of the many belief systems people hold in this world," may not be a bad thing. The more a person learns about cultures, the better they will be able to interact with people. If you decide to do it, I would just emphasize to your kid that you're just teaching them that the belief exists and that he/she will have to make up their own mind when they're older as to if they want to believe in that, or some other religious belief, or some agnostic type thing, or nothing at all. This message was edited by K.C. on 12-8-06 @ 5:13 PM Here's the problem with that.Thinking about all religions logically and trying to be objective just doesn't work.  Religions demand obedience, period.  You surrender  your free will to your God's plan for your life and preparations for your afterlife.  You can't "think outside the box" with religions.  It's all or nothing.Keeping the subject of religion away from a child is a bad idea too.  Discussing the topic and telling a child why you chose not to participate is important too.  I just think, and am glad to be with the majority on this one, that you don't need religion and shouldn't feel the need to force it on your kid for no reason Whistlepig. I hear your point, and I think I should divulge that at this point my life, I'm quite unsure what, if anything I believe in. If someone HAD to pin me down to some particular line of thought, I'd probably say I'm agnostic, but even kind of marginalizes what I think and doesn't give the whole story. Anyway, now that that's out of the way...The only thing religion is all or nothing in is a belief in a deity (or deities for say...the Buddhists of the world). Everything else is up for debate...there may be one Christian who says another Christian will go to hell if he is anti-gay marriage...but he ultimately can't say that with 100% conviction. That way there's so many sects, and variations with in the major religions themselves.  I ABSOLUTELY agree that no one should force religion on their kid...at the same time, as a parent, you don't want to close doors for your kids. I was raised Catholic...I wouldn't necessary call myself a Catholic today...as I said, I'm not really sure what I believe at this point...but if I had a kid, I'd let him (or her) get a little exposure to that, as well as other belief systems to give them a nice rounded education so as they continually evolve their beliefs, they know that's open to them. I think you do your kids as much a disservice in cutting them off completely, as you do when you indoctrinate them and force them to believe something.

Death Metal Moe

12-08-2006, 08:16 PM

K.C. wrote: The only thing religion is all or nothing in is a belief in a deity (or deities for say...the Buddhists of the world). Everything else is up for debate...there may be one Christian who says another Christian will go to hell if he is anti-gay marriage...but he ultimately can't say that with 100% conviction. That way there's so many sects, and variations with in the major religions themselves. I'm sorry K.C. but that just isn't true.  Most of your Christian faiths are Anti-Gay rights and marriage, I can't think of 1 that's not Anti-Abortion, they want you to tithe, they want you to follow the 10 commandments, they want you to follow the example of Jesus, they want you to buy into it all and die buying into it.And in reality, I can't blame them for having rules.  What's a club without any rules?  It's a hang.  If I said "Hey, come back here every week and you're part of the club" you'd ask "Well what is involved with being part of your club?"  If I answered "Nothing" you wouldn't come back because you can do that at your house.I've heard of different Christian sects that have very loose rules on normally RED FLAGGED topics for them, but I can be wishy washy at home without giving these people my money.

Fez4PrezN2008

12-08-2006, 08:24 PM

Gvac wrote: Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Gvac wrote: Fez4PrezN2008 wrote: Matthew 19:14 Hey!No secret codes! god you're lazy... here ya goBut Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.Thanks, but you don't have to call me "god." Notice that was "god" with a little "g".... just like gvac's "little g" (SNAP!)

K.C.

12-08-2006, 08:36 PM

Death Metal Moe wrote: K.C. wrote: The only thing religion is all or nothing in is a belief in a deity (or deities for say...the Buddhists of the world). Everything else is up for debate...there may be one Christian who says another Christian will go to hell if he is anti-gay marriage...but he ultimately can't say that with 100% conviction. That way there's so many sects, and variations with in the major religions themselves. I'm sorry K.C. but that just isn't true.  Most of your Christian faiths are Anti-Gay rights and marriage, I can't think of 1 that's not Anti-Abortion, they want you to tithe, they want you to follow the 10 commandments, they want you to follow the example of Jesus, they want you to buy into it all and die buying into it.And in reality, I can't blame them for having rules.  What's a club without any rules?  It's a hang.  If I said "Hey, come back here every week and you're part of the club" you'd ask "Well what is involved with being part of your club?"  If I answered "Nothing" you wouldn't come back because you can do that at your house.I've heard of different Christian sects that have very loose rules on normally RED FLAGGED topics for them, but I can be wishy washy at home without giving these people my money.Well, I can only speak from experience, and the only experience I've had was when I was younger and still dabbling in Catholicism because of my parents...so I know that you're probably right in that most Catholic parishes teach anti-Gay Marriage (although not necessarily anti-Gay Rights) and Anti-Abortion stuff, and the 10 Commandments....they don't mandate tithing...that's optioinal. Anyway, despite teaching that, whether you believe and follow those premises or not doesn't make or break your 'salvation' so to speak. There is flexibility there. Now...it's probably much different in the red state brand of Christianity that I think mandates follow everything exactly or burn in hell.  Anyway, I didn't really want to get into a debate about the semantics of the Christianity...I'm fairly far removed from it at this point...so I may be flat out wrong in what I remember.  But my whole point in this was that people shouldn't take options off the table for their kids. People should want their kids to take everything in as they grow up and make an informed decision about what they believe...and to do that, you probably have to expose them to some degree to the religious scene. 

This message was edited by K.C. on 12-9-06 @ 12:37 AM

SatCam

12-09-2006, 07:44 AM

It's best to start your kids early

http://www.7adaara.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/images/other/godhatesfags.jpg

Fez4PrezN2008

12-09-2006, 07:49 AM

Even the Muslims can agree with that!<img src="http://www.actioninengland.gb.com/islamic%20children/12.jpg" border="0" width="275" height="400" />

Crispy123

12-09-2006, 07:52 AM

WhistlePig wrote: I am faced with this dilemma now that I have a kid. I haven't gone to church --except for the occasional baptism or wedding--in 30+ years and neither has my husband but we both think it's something we should take the kid to. My parents took me when I was little but they're not religious at all and quit going as soon as I said I didn't want to go anymore -- around age 10. My husband had a much more religious upbringing including attending Catholic school but hasn't practiced it in years. I'm dreading having to go again. How am I going to bring my daughter up with some kind of religion when I basically have none? Far more important than taking to church, I have taught my two daughters the importance of fetching beers and chicken wings for me and my friends. Not only is it polite but they will be able to get jobs in 10-15 years. I also encourage "purging" after eating to much.

FUNKMAN

12-09-2006, 08:02 AM

a couple of funkpoints> nobody can prove there is a god> nobody can prove there is not a god> religion has caused alot of death and destruction(but is it really religion. similar to the gun question, do guns kill people or do people with guns kill people?  you can replace the word gun with religion)> in the name of god or religion there has been alot of good accomplished.in the end when you think about it Man continues to flourish, the population always grows. it makes you think the benefits outweigh the "faults"(can't think of a better word)i used to pray alot when i was younger but not anymore. i made a decision that i need proof. i don't think it's asking too much for god to pay a visit and we have a little gossip a little chat(if he does exist)

empulse

12-09-2006, 08:17 AM

Anyone here seen Jesus Camp?  I have never been into religion, but this made me think twice about allowing my kids to participate (when i have some.)

A.J.

12-09-2006, 09:47 AM

FUNKMAN wrote: > nobody can prove there is not a godThen why don't people worship the Greek/Roman gods anymore?  Apparently the early Christians were successful in disproving them.

FUNKMAN

12-09-2006, 09:54 AM

A.J. wrote: FUNKMAN wrote: > nobody can prove there is not a godThen why don't people worship the Greek/Roman gods anymore?  Apparently the early Christians were successful in disproving them.they've disproved nothing, and they proved nothing...

led37zep

12-09-2006, 10:14 AM

My dad felt the same way when I was growing up.  He felt he had to take me to church for some unknown reason.  Lucky for me he was lazy and liked watching football so we barely ever went except for Christmas and Easter.  Oddly enough by him not taking me and not forcing me to go I had a general interest in going to chruch when I got a little older.  I went a few times to discover myself what it was all about, which is a much better way than having it shoved down my throat growing up. My point is I think its better to let the kid figure it out for himself when he gets older, maybe take him a few times when he's young but don't make a big deal about it.  Thats my two cents, time to go sin.