Why Don't We Divide Iraq? [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

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DarkHippie

03-02-2007, 08:46 AM

When India gained independence, they split the country into two countries, India and Pakistan.  they did this to satisfy Muslims and Hindis, who were constantly fighting.  Although there was trouble at first, and the two are still rivals, for the most part it has worked well.Why don't we split Iraq into Sunni and Shite states?  We can split them right between the Tigris and Euphrates and make Baghdad a neutral city.  Maybe then we can stop some of this sectarian violence.What do you think?

AgnosticJihad

03-02-2007, 09:00 AM

Sounds good to me, if it gets us out of there. I don't think it would work, though, for many reasons: what happens to the Kurds? If I'm not mistaken, all the oil (or at least most of it) is in Western Iraq, which would basically mean the Eastern half would be pretty poor, and the end result would be similar to East-West Germany (in economic terms, at least). Or we could just let all the Shi'ites live in the East and let them merge with Iran (probably not a good idea, at least until the mullahs are overthrown). Your idea would take a lot of work, but it could work out well, or it could all  go to shit anyway.

mendyweiss

03-02-2007, 09:00 AM

Only if Yerdaddy thinks its a good idea

Crispy123

03-02-2007, 09:06 AM

If it got split up, it would be absorbed by the countries around it. The Shiites by Iran, Kurds by Turkey, and Sunnis by the Saudis. Then since only a small percentage of the country contains all the oil wealth, these countries would be fighting to get it causing even further instability.

Furtherman

03-02-2007, 09:08 AM

DarkHippie wrote: Why don't we split Iraq into Sunni and Shite states?  We can split them right between the Tigris and Euphrates and make Baghdad a neutral city.  Maybe then we can stop some of this sectarian violence.Why do we have to do anything with how they run their lives and government?  Let them figure it out.

Dan 'Hampton

03-02-2007, 09:09 AM

When we leave the three parts will divide by themselves anyways.  And then thier neighbors will absorb their corrisponding tribes and then you'll have your civil war.  Might as well set them all on their way.

MrPink

03-02-2007, 09:12 AM

Thats like suggesting we legalize prostitution. Good idea, but because it's a good idea, we won't do it.

This message was edited by MrPink on 3-2-07 @ 1:12 PM

AgnosticJihad

03-02-2007, 09:13 AM

Furtherman wrote: DarkHippie wrote: Why don't we split Iraq into Sunni and Shite states?  We can split them right between the Tigris and Euphrates and make Baghdad a neutral city.  Maybe then we can stop some of this sectarian violence.Why do we have to do anything with how they run their lives and government?  Let them figure it out.Unfortunately, we do have a certain responsibility for getting the Iraqi people in this situation in the first place.

Furtherman

03-02-2007, 09:17 AM

AgnosticJihad wrote: Furtherman wrote: DarkHippie wrote: Why don't we split Iraq into Sunni and Shite states?  We can split them right between the Tigris and Euphrates and make Baghdad a neutral city.  Maybe then we can stop some of this sectarian violence.Why do we have to do anything with how they run their lives and government?  Let them figure it out.Unfortunately, we do have a certain responsibility for getting the Iraqi people in this situation in the first place.It is unfortunate.  But it's not my fault.  Nor yours.  It's the current administrations fault.  I feel bad for the Iraqi people, I really do, but the have grievances among themselves that go back thousands of years.  Once we're gone, it'll go back to the same shit, different century.  I'd rather not see one more American life taken for what is inevitable.

furie

03-02-2007, 09:52 AM

i suggested this on the board three years ago and people thought i was crazy.
now everyone' coming around.... well if you live long enough....

raulfd4

03-02-2007, 10:16 AM

anyone ever heard of this place called israel? or maybe palestine?dividing up countries based upon religious boundaries doesn't seem to really work out too well.

DarkHippie

03-02-2007, 01:42 PM

furie wrote: i suggested this on the board three years ago and people thought i was crazy. now everyone' coming around.... well if you live long enough.... forgive me for ever doubting you furie

The Jays

03-02-2007, 01:51 PM

why don't we turn the entire fucking region into glass, like ronnie b. use to say??

foodcourtdruide

03-02-2007, 01:51 PM

dschef wrote: When we leave the three parts will divide by themselves anyways.  And then thier neighbors will absorb their corrisponding tribes and then you'll have your civil war.  Might as well set them all on their way. The civil war has already began. I'm extremely anti-war, but I know the rest of the world is not like me. If this is what will happen in Iraq then it is just what will happen. We disturbed the government of the country, attempting to prevent civil war is just prolonging it.

foodcourtdruide

03-02-2007, 01:53 PM

DarkHippie

03-02-2007, 01:55 PM

TheJays wrote: why don't we turn the entire fucking region into glass, like ronnie b. use to say?? then we can turn it into a theme park!!  Let's call it "WeRaq!!!!"

STC-Dub

03-02-2007, 02:01 PM

Splitting it would be too logical.  the problem is the Turn and Iranians do not want an independant Kurdistan and the region(s) without oil would cause problems for the others.  I don't see the three being absorbed by other countries, though Iran would have a lot of influence in the Shia region and Saudia Arabia some in the Sunni region.

DarkHippie

03-02-2007, 04:53 PM

It might work like King Solomon and the baby.  If we (the international community) suggest that we split Iraq, maybe the iraqis will get their asses together instead of killing each other.I was looking at some of my diary entries from 3 or 4 years ago, and its startling how almost everything that i thought would happen has happened.  Maybe I should go back to being a professional psychic again.

epo

03-02-2007, 04:59 PM

Captain Rooster

03-02-2007, 05:01 PM

We're not as smart as the British.

DarkHippie

03-02-2007, 05:07 PM

Captain Rooster wrote: We're not as smart as the British. I long for the day where i will be as smart and witty as benny hill

Midkiff

03-02-2007, 05:11 PM

Yeah. The Dummis, Shits, and Turds should all just get their own states. Then they can fight like Israel and Palestine. On second thought, f**k all those stupid countries. Death to the Shits!

This message was edited by jdmidkiff on 3-2-07 @ 9:12 PM

DarkHippie

03-02-2007, 05:20 PM

jdmidkiff wrote: Yeah. The Dummis, Shits, and Turds should all just get their own states. Then they can fight like Israel and Palestine. On second thought, f**k all those stupid countries. Death to the Shits! This message was edited by jdmidkiff on 3-2-07 @ 9:12 PM Israel and plaestine are a different situation.  before england gave israel the land, there were very few jews there (although there was a sizeable minority).  afterwards jews immigrated and the majority palestinians became the minority.  it would be like giving texas to the mexicans and making it a mexican state.It iraq, the people already live there, there would be no "filthy immigrants" coming in.

Yerdaddy

03-02-2007, 10:14 PM

mendyweiss wrote: Only if Yerdaddy thinks its a good idea 100 Yerdaddy's Sharmoota Points for you, which can be redeemed for Delta Ailines frequent flyer miles redeemable in 1986. Congratulations.It's a bad idea actually, but also a moot point because that decision is no longer ours to make. There is an Iraqi government now and, because of the fucked up decisions we've made all along, we have just a little bit more influence over it as Iran does. Mission... accomplished?First off the idea was floated a few months ago, we discussed it on the board and I had a big post with good links <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/53647/currentpage/1/page/The_Iraq_war.htm#bottom" target="_blank">here.</a>Second, I think India and Pakistan is an example of why this is a BAD idea. They've gone to war with each other three times already and currently have nukes pointed at each other and itchy trigger fingers. If someone finally succeeds in assassinating Musharraf, it's go time. Also, the partitioning of that country was a bloodbath in the many areas where Hindus and Muslims liveed together. Wikipedia it.

high fly

03-02-2007, 10:51 PM

DarkHippie wrote: When India gained independence, they split the country into two countries, India and Pakistan.  they did this to satisfy Muslims and Hindis, who were constantly fighting.  Although there was trouble at first, and the two are still rivals, for the most part it has worked well.Why don't we split Iraq into Sunni and Shite states?  We can split them right between the Tigris and Euphrates and make Baghdad a neutral city.  Maybe then we can stop some of this sectarian violence.What do you think?Since the split between India and Pakistan, things have not gone as well as you think. Mostly low intensity warfare has gone on for decades and Pakistan has been rife with split after split, the current ruler ensconced by military coup.In Iraq, it's not just the inaccurately-named Sunnis versus the unfortunately-named Shiites. There are divisions within each side. Once we are gone and the unity that comes from just wanting the infidels out will disappear and more divisions will emerge.Besides being divided by religion an sects within sects, Iraq is also a tribal society as well.Divide the country or not, Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Gulf states and Iran are all striving behind the scenes to see their competing interests served. Those backed by Iran are the best organized and best armed and will ultimately prevail.What Bush has done is given Iraq to Iran. 

This message was edited by high fly on 3-4-07 @ 1:06 AM

patsopinion

03-03-2007, 02:31 AM

oillook at where the oil is centralized ans where the bad guys are.

DarkHippie

03-03-2007, 08:51 AM

Yerdaddy wrote: mendyweiss wrote: Only if Yerdaddy thinks its a good idea 100 Yerdaddy's Sharmoota Points for you, which can be redeemed for Delta Ailines frequent flyer miles redeemable in 1986. Congratulations.It's a bad idea actually, but also a moot point because that decision is no longer ours to make. There is an Iraqi government now and, because of the fucked up decisions we've made all along, we have just a little bit more influence over it as Iran does. Mission... accomplished?First off the idea was floated a few months ago, we discussed it on the board and I had a big post with good links <a href="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm/Forum/87/Topic/53647/currentpage/1/page/The_Iraq_war.htm#bottom" target="_blank">here.</a>Second, I think India and Pakistan is an example of why this is a BAD idea. They've gone to war with each other three times already and currently have nukes pointed at each other and itchy trigger fingers. If someone finally succeeds in assassinating Musharraf, it's go time. Also, the partitioning of that country was a bloodbath in the many areas where Hindus and Muslims liveed together. Wikipedia it.I think we are only delaying the inevitable.  the Sunnis don't want to be ruled by the shiia, the shiia are still bitter at the sunnis.  i don't see how they are going to coexist.  I think at this point its the lesser of two evils.  otherwise we're looking at decades of violence

Doctor Z

03-03-2007, 08:53 AM

<hr width="100%" size="2" />Why Don't We Divide Iraq? <hr width="100%" size="2" />Too late.

epo

03-03-2007, 09:11 AM

patsopinion wrote: oillook at where the oil is centralized ans where the bad guys are. I agree.  Texas is a problem.

narc

03-03-2007, 09:18 AM

Dividing it is a terrible idea. First of all, not everybody would want to be "absorbed" by another country. A lot of Iraqis consider themselves Iraqis first, and then Sunni or Shia later. If there is a Sunni/Shia war, it could be across the entire Middle East. It might be the next world war at this point. This is a real possibility that everybody is scared shitless of - especially the Saudis. That's sort of what they were talking about with the whole "Shia Crescent" talk. Dividing Iraq isn't going to solve that problem at all, if anything it will make it worse. Secondly, it smacks of neo-colonialism. Colonialism is what screwed up the Middle East so bad in the first place. There's certainly no guarantee we'd be getting it right this time - in fact it's unlikely we'd do so. And even if we were to divide up the territoriesm one side would want more than what they're given.

Yerdaddy

03-03-2007, 05:39 PM

epo wrote: patsopinion wrote: oillook at where the oil is centralized ans where the bad guys are. I agree.  Texas is a problem.TURN IT INTO GLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

burrben

03-03-2007, 05:41 PM

managed partitions

Midkiff

03-03-2007, 05:51 PM

shellebink has nice tits

Yerdaddy

03-03-2007, 06:04 PM

narc wrote: Dividing it is a terrible idea. First of all, not everybody would want to be "absorbed" by another country. A lot of Iraqis consider themselves Iraqis first, and then Sunni or Shia later. If there is a Sunni/Shia war, it could be across the entire Middle East. It might be the next world war at this point. This is a real possibility that everybody is scared shitless of - especially the Saudis. That's sort of what they were talking about with the whole "Shia Crescent" talk. Dividing Iraq isn't going to solve that problem at all, if anything it will make it worse. Secondly, it smacks of neo-colonialism. Colonialism is what screwed up the Middle East so bad in the first place. There's certainly no guarantee we'd be getting it right this time - in fact it's unlikely we'd do so. And even if we were to divide up the territoriesm one side would want more than what they're given.  This is all true. Ecxept that it smacked of colonialism the day we invaded and only got worse. In fact it IS colonialism for all intents and purposes. And the Sunni/Shiia schism is probably going to happen because of this, whether Iraq tears itself apart, which it still may do. However there is some good news from the Iraqi government in that <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/02/AR2007030201143.html?sub=AR" target="_blank">they've agreed on an oil sharing agreement</a> that largely satisfies the major groups. I had given up hope that they were capable of this kind of compromise and political action. We still have to see if it holds and it doesn't necessarily mean the civil war will subside but it helps. I also want to say that Zalmay Khalilzad has been the one administration official that hasn't had his head up his ass from the beginning. The next president should take all those medals that were given to other guys for fucking up and give them to Khalilzad.There's even a little good news from the White House: The administration, despite claiming it would not do this, is taking the reccommendation of the Iraq Study Group and <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/03/AR2007030300922.html" target="_blank">talking to Iran and Syria</a>. I guess Bush was afraid there's be a rash of heart attacks and strained necks if the public knew he was going to do something right on Iraq.And the bad news is <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/02/AR2007030200270.html" target="_blank">the insurgents are stronger than ever.</a> And the Iraqi forces are corrupt and weak and will not be ready to "stand up" as we "step down." Or run away. Whichever.

high fly

03-03-2007, 09:12 PM

DarkHippie wrote: I think we are only delaying the inevitable.  the Sunnis don't want to be ruled by the shiia, the shiia are still bitter at the sunnis.  i don't see how they are going to coexist.  I think at this point its the lesser of two evils.  otherwise we're looking at decades of violenceWe are looking at decades of violence, period until one strong man or another rises up to rule the country with an iron hand.Those people are a feudal, tribal society, 1,000 years behind the rest of civilization and they won't catch up any time soon.You are ignoring the recent news of factions of the unfortunately-named Shiites fighting each other. Neither they, nor the inaccurtely-named Sunnis are monolithic groups, and neither are the Kurds, for that matter.

This message was edited by high fly on 3-4-07 @ 1:13 AM

Dan 'Hampton

03-04-2007, 06:47 AM

Captain Rooster wrote: We're not as smart as the British.     This is actually a great idea.  Why don't we divide up Iraq just like the United Kingdom is divided.  Each sect can have it's own area and piss on the other areas of the country.  They can all feel like they've accomplished something and the rest of us can sit back and laugh at them.