So it begins...

[AgnosticJihad]

<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070305fa_fact_hersh">www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070305fa_fact_hersh</a></p><p>discuss please.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[patsopinion]

<p>this thread should have been posted 9 days and 27 mins from now when we finnaly decide that mid east oil simply isnt worth it</p><p><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Owner/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.jpg" border="0" /><img src="http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040913/images/nuclear.jpg" border="0" width="180" height="144" /> </p>

[AgnosticJihad]

<p>Well, I was hoping to see a litle more discussion of this than has occurred....</p><p>I mean, is no one else a little bothered by the U.S. recruiting Jihadists to fight on our behalf? We did the same thing in Afghanistan during the Russo-Afghan War ('78-'88), and I think we all know what that resulted in by 2001. Not only are we working with Saudi Arabia, a state which not only forces extremist intepretations of Islam (Salafi and Wahabi) on it's people, but actually lets these interpretations of Sharia (Islammic law) dictate the state's legal code; we are actually recruiting religious fundamentalists to fight on our behalf. After all, 15 of the 19 9-11 highjackers were Saudi, as is Bin Laden; it is no coincidence that all these people came form a state that promotes fundamentalism. While it may seem like a good idea to pit Sunni extremists against Shi'ite extremists, assuming one side emerges victorious, who do you think will be thier next target? This is exactly what happened in Afghanistan: we supported Jihadists (who were known to be anti-american) because we had a common enemy in the Soviet Union, but as soon as the Soviets were driven out, they turned on us. Is it really a good idea to strenghten our future enemies? When will the US government learn covert ops and proxy wars may benefit us in the short term, but usually fuck us in the long run (not to mention the fact that they are usually illegal)? Examples abound: our actions in the afforementioned Russo-Afghan War, the overthrow of the elected government of Iran (which led to the overthrow of our chosen dictator the Shah and the establishment of the current regime, which&nbsp;came to power largely due to the Shah's brutal oppression made many Iranians very angry at America), our support for Saddam when he fought Iran for us, and the current rise of anti-Americanism in Latin America is probably connected to our operations there during the late 70s through the 80s. While I'm not surprised by anything discussed in this article, anyone who is sick of the war or doesn't want to see another American die at the hands of these religious nuts I'd think would be a little upset by this; I know I am. Make some noise, people!</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Dougie Brootal]

i like you, but that is simply too much for me too read. yer gonna hafta condense that down to like 5 sentences. i have ADHD.

[AgnosticJihad]

<strong>douggrasso</strong> wrote:<br />i like you, but that is simply too much for me too read. yer gonna hafta condense that down to like 5 sentences. i have ADHD. <p>well, just read 5 sentences, walk away for a few minutes, come read 5 more sentences, and so on until you've read it all. </p><p>AgnosticJihad: I offer simple solutions to simple problems.</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by AgnosticJihad on 3-9-07 @ 2:45 PM</span>

[K.C.]

<strong>AgnosticJihad</strong> wrote:<br /><p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070305fa_fact_hersh">www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/070305fa_fact_hersh</a></p><p>discuss please.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I read that article when it came out. </p><p>I think Hersh is right on with it and it's something I've been saying all along. All you have to do is imagine the reverse of the situation and how you would react to an invading power. </p><p>Look how this country tightened up in terms of variations of opinion after 9/11 and how so many Americans bought into the &quot;Us vs. Them&quot; and &quot;Good vs. Evil&quot; dynamic. </p><p>Why wouldn't the same thing happen in the Middle East? So you get a whole segment of Muslims who wouldn't necessarily agree or support the Salafists and Al Qaeda in peace time, but when faced with a choice of supporting them or what they see as an occupying power that they just don't understand, they're going to choose the devil they know over the devil they don't.</p><p>So in that sense, the War in Iraq legitimized Bin Laden in the Middle East, and gave him more credibility over there than anything he could have possibly done, because everything he preached about America, at least in the eyes of the Muslims over there, became a reality with the Iraq invasion. </p><p>And the situation is completely fucked now. Iraq has swelled the recruiting numbers for Al Qaeda, and provides a perfect training ground for the new recruits to get war experience. So when we eventually pull out,&nbsp;Al Qaeda&nbsp;will have a battle-hardened, veteran network of terrorists at their disposal to wreak more havoc in the Middle East and around the world. </p><p>The War in Iraq completely fucked the War against Terrorism. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><span class="post_edited"></span>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by K.C. on 3-9-07 @ 2:42 PM</span>