FATE: Is it real? Do you belive in it?

[OrangeBOF]

<p>I know it's is kind of hard to follow a post about a penis being clamped down (bucket of cold water) but i guess that's my fate.</p><p>&nbsp;Cute huh?</p><p>Seriously, ever sit and wonder about your fate while listening to some music, or a TV show gets you thinking or just life in general and how it's going.&nbsp; Are you happy, sad, disillusioned, not what you expected out of life, not believing that this is where you are in your life and how you got there.</p><p>Is it Fate?</p><p>I think a lot would depend on what your interpretation of what fate is to you is important in this discussion.</p><p>To me, I think fate is that from the moment you are born till the day and way you die, it is all predetermined.&nbsp; Is this where you want to be in your life?&nbsp; Did you expect more, plan on doing something else, being somewhere else, happy, sad, wish things could have turned out different or wish you could do it over with what you know now?&nbsp; The feeling that you are very lucky or extremely unlucky to be where you are right now?&nbsp; What could you have done differently.&nbsp; The self exploration and questioning can be endless.&nbsp; Is it all for naught?</p><p>To get to our predetermined fate, there are obvious many decisions and paths that have to be taken, is that where man's self will takes over. When in essence it doesn't really matter, it could just be how good or bad our journey is to out end of our trip through useless self&nbsp;decisions and agony or peace to get to&nbsp;a place that has already been decided.&nbsp;</p><p>It just occurred to me and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't already known.&nbsp; Remember rainy days at elementary school and playing board games.&nbsp; one was 'The Game of Life&quot;.&nbsp; No matter what path you took if I recall, college, work or what the choices wee, all brought you to the same place, just having unique journeys each time.&nbsp; therefore each time you played it would be that you are playing with someone's fate that is not your own, for obvious reasons.&nbsp;</p><p>I am wondering if I sit her and agonize over decisions and questioning decisions and opinions and what path do I choose.&nbsp; do I live a life with pain or take a chance at feeling better with a high risk, when it doesn't matter.&nbsp; Like Ron would wish that I die on the operating table, true or not did he have no chance if it wasn't my destiny. Is destiny and fate the same. OK, enough out of me,because I am writing this not to prove a point but to try and understand a little about my on path and ultimate end.&nbsp; Is it in my hands or in the hands of someone years ago when I was born and my deciding what to do doesn't matter?&nbsp;</p><p>I'd love to hear your thoughts and definition of fate and reality.&nbsp; Does this go against religion or align with it.&nbsp; Take a suicide bomber....part of me finds it hard to believe that a higher power, spiritual being God, whoever would make a young person's fate to strap explosives on his back and waist&nbsp; and blow up innocent people.&nbsp; In the name of&nbsp; their God.&nbsp; Is this the same God that determined his fate, I guess it would make sense.&nbsp; than is this Higher power who miraculously makes some small child survive a horrific accident say on her tricycle only to grow up and do something wonderful with her life that helps other people?&nbsp;</p><p>OK I'm done.&nbsp; I apologize, I did not intend to write this much.&nbsp;I'd love to hear your thoughts.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Billy</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[BeerBandit]

<strong>OrangeBOF</strong> wrote:<br /><p>I know it's is kind of hard to follow a post about a penis being clamped down (bucket of cold water) but i guess that's my fate.</p><p> Cute huh?</p><p>Seriously, ever sit and wonder about your fate while listening to some music, or a TV show gets you thinking or just life in general and how it's going. Are you happy, sad, disillusioned, not what you expected out of life, not believing that this is where you are in your life and how you got there.</p><p>Is it Fate?</p><p>I think a lot would depend on what your interpretation of what fate is to you is important in this discussion.</p><p>To me, I think fate is that from the moment you are born till the day and way you die, it is all predetermined. Is this where you want to be in your life? Did you expect more, plan on doing something else, being somewhere else, happy, sad, wish things could have turned out different or wish you could do it over with what you know now? The feeling that you are very lucky or extremely unlucky to be where you are right now? What could you have done differently. The self exploration and questioning can be endless. Is it all for naught?</p><p>To get to our predetermined fate, there are obvious many decisions and paths that have to be taken, is that where man's self will takes over. When in essence it doesn't really matter, it could just be how good or bad our journey is to out end of our trip through useless self decisions and agony or peace to get to a place that has already been decided. </p><p>It just occurred to me and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't already known. Remember rainy days at elementary school and playing board games. one was 'The Game of Life&quot;. No matter what path you took if I recall, college, work or what the choices wee, all brought you to the same place, just having unique journeys each time. therefore each time you played it would be that you are playing with someone's fate that is not your own, for obvious reasons. </p><p>I am wondering if I sit her and agonize over decisions and questioning decisions and opinions and what path do I choose. do I live a life with pain or take a chance at feeling better with a high risk, when it doesn't matter. Like Ron would wish that I die on the operating table, true or not did he have no chance if it wasn't my destiny. Is destiny and fate the same. OK, enough out of me,because I am writing this not to prove a point but to try and understand a little about my on path and ultimate end. Is it in my hands or in the hands of someone years ago when I was born and my deciding what to do doesn't matter? </p><p>I'd love to hear your thoughts and definition of fate and reality. Does this go against religion or align with it. Take a suicide bomber....part of me finds it hard to believe that a higher power, spiritual being God, whoever would make a young person's fate to strap explosives on his back and waist and blow up innocent people. In the name of their God. Is this the same God that determined his fate, I guess it would make sense. than is this Higher power who miraculously makes some small child survive a horrific accident say on her tricycle only to grow up and do something wonderful with her life that helps other people? </p><p>OK I'm done. I apologize, I did not intend to write this much. I'd love to hear your thoughts.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Billy</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;We are at the mercy of cause and effect, and as a result, nothing is not determined already.&nbsp; Since the first atom imparted energy to the next atom, we are only a result of what's come before us. </p>

[Billy Staples]

<strong>BeerBandit</strong> wrote:<br /><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;We are at the mercy of cause and effect, and as a result, nothing is not determined already.&nbsp; Since the first atom imparted energy to the next atom, <strong>we are only a result of what's come before us. </strong></p><p>Ok, than logically what comes next is only a result what done by or with us.&nbsp; Therefore isn't it out the next person's control than.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>trying to follow a sense of logic...einstein couldnt have known it all.&nbsp; Plus it gives a chance to show off my deep side!!!</p>

[patsopinion]

glad you asked <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p><p class="MsoNormal">Influences on Choice</p> <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p> <p style="line-height: 200%" class="MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>The power of choice is one of the most sacred rights of most societies in the modern world, but is choice itself truly self determined or it is determined but outside influences.<span>&nbsp; </span>This idea has been studied by many different philosophers and scientists through ought the past and a clear answer has not truly been defined.<span>&nbsp; </span>The ideology of the influences on choice from different schools of thought is fascinating in its diverse answer though.<span>&nbsp; </span>I have done some research on these and the following is a study of these different schools and where they stem from.</p> <p style="line-height: 200%" class="MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Choice itself is the action of weighing outcomes and making a decision.<span>&nbsp; </span>Weighing the outcomes comes from different life experiences, how, from ones experience, would one decision have a positive result compared to an outcome that would be less beneficial of another path.<span>&nbsp; </span>In most human experience, choice is the choice between one of two decisions, good or bad, but in reality choices available could be exponential, just as the outcome could be.<span>&nbsp; </span>Let us define simple choices like a or b choice, such as to take a shower before class, or to go smelly; and complex choices as ones like picking a religion.<span>&nbsp; </span>These choices would be influenced by past results, such as a pretty girl being in your class, or that your parents are practicing Catholics.<span>&nbsp; </span>These influences vary one weight in different schools of thought ranging from the ability to consciously weigh the affects of these on your thought process and deciding on an outcome that is at its most beneficial, to the other side of the spectrum where these influences completely control ones actions.<span>&nbsp; </span>There are even further was of weighing the influences themselves such that Physiologists and Sociologists weigh differently society&rsquo;s influence and the role of family and genetics.</p> <p style="line-height: 200%" class="MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Choice is strange in its perspective though.<span>&nbsp; </span>Limited or lack of choice can lead to being discomfort with choosing at all, and on the other side of the spectrum, too many choices will lead to a feeling of lack of control, and a longing for another choice and its possible outcome.<span>&nbsp; </span>And example of limited choice would be &ldquo;Hobson&rsquo;s choice&rdquo; where a stable owner only allowed the customer to take the first horse in the first stall, so as to rotate his horses.<span>&nbsp; </span>Although he had plenty of ride able horses he only allowed customers to take the first horse.<span>&nbsp; </span>This automatically leads the mind to wonder what the other horses would have been, and whether or not they would have been better.<span>&nbsp; </span>Hobson&rsquo;s choice has evolved to meaning a choice between two undesirable choices, such as Presidential Candidates in the two party systems(Busch versus John Carey).</p> <p style="line-height: 200%" class="MsoNormal">~</p> <p style="line-height: 200%" class="MsoNormal"><span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Ones values obviously will shift a person&rsquo;s decision making.<span>&nbsp; </span>Values are learned traits which help a person decipher between write or wrong, action or inaction.<span>&nbsp; </span>Values are for the most part conscious in their nature and are absorbed from the world and influences around that person.<span>&nbsp; </span>The idea that a person picks one road or course over

[Fat_Sunny]

<p><font size="2">Wow, That's Pretty Intense For A St. Patty's Day Night!</font></p><p><font size="2">F_S Is A Firm Believer In Karma.&nbsp; As You Sew, So Shall You Reap.&nbsp; HOWEVER, Free Will Can&nbsp;Trump Karma, By Which Fat Means You Can&nbsp;Alter The Course Of Your Destiny By The Actions You Take.&nbsp; Things Are Pre-Determined, Yet As A Free Spirit, You Can Exercise Your Will And Actually Change The Course Of Your Destiny.&nbsp; </font></p><p><font size="2">Hmm...F_S Cannot Properly Explain His Fat Self In Two Sentences On A Topic As Heavy As This!</font></p><p><font size="2">&nbsp;&nbsp; </font></p>

[Mike Teacher]

<p>OK real quick the atom thing has been long disproven, and Karma has nothing to do with what F_S is talking about. </p><p>Try again.</p>

[ChrisTheCop]

<p>First off, welcome to the board. Always nice to have people of intellect around here.</p><p>Now, I'll just chime in with an answer to one of your questions: whether the idea of fate goes against religion or aligns with it. I was raised Presbyterian, and our whole religion is based on the &quot;Doctrine of Pre-Destination&quot;, which in a nutshell, is fate. Basically, God has already predetermined how each soul will exist for eternity, including the final destination. We have free will, and can make all sorts of choices along the way, much like the game of Life you mentioned. I always liken it more to a long maze with many correct paths of travel, most of which bring you to the one piece of cheese in the middle...whatever that cheese may be. And yes, along the way, there may be things that are SUPPOSED to happen; milestones if you will.&nbsp;</p><p>So, to officially answer another question, Yes. I believe in fate.&nbsp;</p>

[Gvac]

<p>I don't believe in fate at all. Not even a little bit. The concept is too mystical or magical for me to comprehend. I have far too much faith in the power of the human spirit to think that no matter what someone attempts to do with their time on this planet, he or she will ultimately wind up wherever some outside force had predestined for them. </p><p>It also seems to fly in the face of the concept of free will, which Christianity preaches as one of its doctrines, as Chris mentioned above. If you choose to reject God, Jesus, and the Church, can you still be &quot;predestined&quot; to go to heaven? Conversely, if you choose to live in accordance with all the teachings of Presbyterianism can you be &quot;predestined&quot; to go to hell? If so, what's the point of living? </p><p>If you answer that you were predestined to make the correct or incorrect choice, then it's not exactly free will, is it? </p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Gvac on 3-18-07 @ 9:09 AM</span>

[BeerBandit]

<strong>Mike Teacher</strong> wrote:<br /><p>OK real quick the atom thing has been long disproven, and Karma has nothing to do with what F_S is talking about. </p><p>Try again.</p><p> Wait, what atom thing?&nbsp; Has Newton been completely discredited now? </p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by BeerBandit on 3-18-07 @ 10:03 AM</span>

[K.C.]

<p>At a certain level, fate does exist just by virtue of existence. </p><p>A human being, or any other species on the planet, is predetermined to do certain biologicallly instinctive things by virtue of being a part of a certain species.</p><p>That's as far as I'd go in the belief of fate. Inside that sort of 'universal fate' that comes with being predestined to certain things by virtue of your birth as a member of a certain species in a certain time period, it is up to each individual to make their own choices. </p><p>I'd say there's no individual road map type of thing for each person. </p>

[DarkHippie]

<p>I believe that life is&nbsp;a combination of free will and predestination.&nbsp; There are things that are more inclined to happen in out lives, things that we are more inclined to be.&nbsp; Lets call&nbsp;that Dharma (our calling in life).&nbsp; However, we still have the free will to go with our dharma or to resist.&nbsp; Life is a struggle between dharma and free will.&nbsp; Peace comes when the two cease to clash, but work together with each other.</p><p>For example, i believe that I was born to be a writer.&nbsp; I also feel that I have a definite inclination to help others.&nbsp; For years I putzed around in jobs, usually sales, that i felt were not right for me.&nbsp; It was mmy choice to do those jobs, but it clashed with my nature.&nbsp; As a result, there was conflict inside me, making it unable to write well.</p><p>Now I have a job helping others, and i have found peace within myself.&nbsp; as a result i am a much better writer.&nbsp; again, it was my choice to find this job, but it also fits my nautre.</p><p>if you can, picture it as a web.&nbsp; The web are all the possiblities set for you, but your free will desides which strand to take.</p>

[ralphbxny]

I dont know. I would like to think it doesnt but sometimes I think it does.&nbsp; my jury is still out!

[roefmLI]

I believe you make your own fate and destiny by the choices you make in life.&nbsp; If you sit around and wait for things to happen, you then don't control your life.&nbsp; You need to get up off your ass and make it happen.&nbsp; Be an active member of your own life...

[Friday]

<p>I think that we were given free will to make&nbsp;our own&nbsp;choices we see as fit throughout our lives.&nbsp;These, along with familial and environmental factors tend to be the most widely credited influences.</p><p>Personally, I feel that there is some sort of divine providence that leads us to places and things... and people ... from time to time.&nbsp; And that our sorroundings&nbsp;do tend to shift a bit more noticeably when these fateful situations are within view.&nbsp; </p><p>I <strong>do not</strong>&nbsp;believe in sitting around waiting for my life to happen to me.</p><p>HOWEVER,&nbsp;when I <strong>do</strong> feel that fate has stepped in, even in&nbsp;a tiny way, I am inclined to have faith in it... and follow the path to see where it leads. </p><p>Just my $.02</p>

<span class=post_edited>This message was edited by Friday on 3-21-07 @ 4:05 PM</span>

[OrangeBOF]

[QUOTE=ChrisTheCop;1232516]<p>First off, welcome to the board. Always nice to have people of intellect around here
who nelly....you do know who started this thing don't ya? Fate has determined that in my case that is not possible.

I can look at every argument, as all of us can and find wide gaping holes in all of them. free will is there, it will always be there. It's like, for example good or bad, the Black Sox scandal, where they knew they were going to lose the World series, no matter what. It was a choice made by most of the team but not all. Now, it doesn't matter how they chose to lose, they used their free will in each game pitch at bat etc, knowing no matter how or what they did in the end it was predetermined they would lose.

OK the hole in this theory is obvious, this predetermination was on its face made by the men involved, or was it? How about the players who weren't in on the scam and they didn't know it, but they were also predetermined to lose. Their free will to win wasn't as effective and the outcome to be changed. the big question is...did these 8 ball players throw the game on free will...or was it their destiny or predetermined fate to all be on the same team, playing for the same cheap owner, all underpaid and hooked up with gamblers, was it a mysterious set of coincidences....or a big part of a master scorecard, so to speak, with them only playing their roles as chosen by them by the power of the universe' I don't want to make it a religious thing because it really isn't. In that case where was Jesus' free will? In the garden of Gethsemane,i think it was clear he didn't really want to die, but agreed to cause it was predetermined by his father that he was to die and there was no choice. (this all assumption of belief or not in this religious theory, thats all)
man & uncontrollable free will = chaos. Think about it. If we really did half of the things our will really wanted us to do. Ok...once again I am all over the place.
am I predestined never to return to radio again, despite peoples belief in me that I should...yet it seems to me like it is already taken care of and I am stuck in this pile of shit i now call life. It seems my destiny now , through no choice of my own to be the one who is the caretaker of the house,and my mom. If I wasn't here,she would not be able to live on her own, IMO. it is like role reversal, as our folks get older, we play the part of the parent and they the children. I dread the thought of me still being married, or in LA or DC or anywhere and what my mothers fate had in store for her. so it is very possible that peoples fates are intermingled. In my case, it is with a loved one, family. What about a stranger. You go to college and the class you want is all booked up, so you sign up for your 2nd choice. Play out the scenario, we will make it a positive one, it Could;d as well be negative where you hurt or get killed by being in this class. let's say you happen to set next to this girl....free will comes in...like hate at first who knows, don't see each other for years, but fate has it that you 2 will meet again, fall in love,marry, have beautiful children. Thats it, one of the kids does not have to find a cure for Aids or something super special, just a good, person. Fate or coincidence?

This is starting to sound a lot like LOST. As John Locke says repeatedly. (the character on the show not the writer/philosopher, I believe).. Locke is saying a lot it is my destiny. His destiny to go here, to do this, blow up the hatch, to be on the island etc. it is always emphasized that Locke believes that this is his destiny to be there, at that time, in that place with those people. OK, its a TV show, but being used for examples.
Than there is the opposite on the show Charlie, ex druggy, musician, kind of life in the crapper till he crashed, yet has the letter F-A-T-E on 4 individual fingers. Why? Not the type of fellow pre crash, you would figure as the daddy type

OK, just some more lighted darkness on the subject.

I bet Roger Waters knows the answer, he knows everything....so he tells me!!!

Take care to the rest of the intelligentsia and glitterati

Staples

shit, now i got to spell check


1st new board post...with all these extra symbols in theposts i thought we were getting dumped out on in a message board