What if there wasn't slavery? [Archive]

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Cleophus James

03-20-2007, 09:17 AM

A caller on the show stated that black people need to remember that slavery brought them to America.  Seeming to try to justify not giving reparations.  Ignoring the ignorance of that, I always was interested in what if there wasn't slavery in America. I think that there would of still be the same population of blacks, but not concentrated in the inner cities.  They would have came over just like any other immigrants, when hardships hit there country.   There would still be racism though.  Just like the racism against the Irish, Asian, and Mexicans.  Opinions?  Like would there be hip hop or blues, derived from African tribal music, and developed in the fields.  Crime, Social structures (church, classes, health services, laws), stereotypes changes?  Doing a serious post? I feel dirty.

FUNKMAN

03-20-2007, 09:21 AM

What if there wasn't slavery? we'd all be wearing polyester

torker

03-20-2007, 09:22 AM

Yeah, they were the Israelites...<img src="http://www.wels.net/wmc/Downloads/clipart2/Sabc075.gif" border="0" width="342" height="202" />

Cleophus James

03-20-2007, 09:25 AM

torker wrote: Yeah, they were the Israelites...<img src="http://www.wels.net/wmc/Downloads/clipart2/Sabc075.gif" border="0" width="342" height="202" /> I was thinking aboutsaying what if there was no slavery in the world, but I figured that goes too far back.  So I kept it to just USnA.

JPMNICK

03-20-2007, 09:48 AM

there is racism against African Blacks in Italy, Spain and France when I was there, and they did not come as slaves to those countries. But all the locals I talked to in Italy, with the little Italian I can speak, told me about how they brought in crime, and they rip people off. Same story you get from racist people here. I think it is human nature to not like what is different. My parents have told me the same story that Ron has said a few times on the air. they grew up in an all white, all catholic neighborhood, so the next level of segregation was what church did they go to. The Irish, Italians, and Polish all stuck by their own kind, and there was tension sometimes with those groups. I do not think to the level of black and white.

Marc with a c

03-20-2007, 09:56 AM

i'd be in the nba

Cleophus James

03-20-2007, 10:47 AM

JPMNICK wrote: there is racism against African Blacks in Italy, Spain and France when I was there, and they did not come as slaves to those countries. But all the locals I talked to in Italy, with the little Italian I can speak, told me about how they brought in crime, and they rip people off. Same story you get from racist people here. I think it is human nature to not like what is different. My parents have told me the same story that Ron has said a few times on the air. they grew up in an all white, all catholic neighborhood, so the next level of segregation was what church did they go to. The Irish, Italians, and Polish all stuck by their own kind, and there was tension sometimes with those groups. I do not think to the level of black and white.  So black people are travelers? Damit I gag on my own serious post.

TheMojoPin

03-20-2007, 10:49 AM

ESDsucks@life wrote: JPMNICK wrote: there is racism against African Blacks in Italy, Spain and France when I was there, and they did not come as slaves to those countries. But all the locals I talked to in Italy, with the little Italian I can speak, told me about how they brought in crime, and they rip people off. Same story you get from racist people here. I think it is human nature to not like what is different. My parents have told me the same story that Ron has said a few times on the air. they grew up in an all white, all catholic neighborhood, so the next level of segregation was what church did they go to. The Irish, Italians, and Polish all stuck by their own kind, and there was tension sometimes with those groups. I do not think to the level of black and white.  So black people are travelers? Damit I gag on my own serious post. Nah, they're just Italian-ing those filthy Italians.

ralphbxny

03-20-2007, 11:49 AM

JPMNICK wrote: there is racism against African Blacks in Italy, Spain and France when I was there, and they did not come as slaves to those countries. But all the locals I talked to in Italy, with the little Italian I can speak, told me about how they brought in crime, and they rip people off. Same story you get from racist people here. I think it is human nature to not like what is different. My parents have told me the same story that Ron has said a few times on the air. they grew up in an all white, all catholic neighborhood, so the next level of segregation was what church did they go to. The Irish, Italians, and Polish all stuck by their own kind, and there was tension sometimes with those groups. I do not think to the level of black and white. So what Boston looks like would be what the majority of the U.S. would look like...interesting?

Knowledged_one

03-20-2007, 12:05 PM

less crimeless drug abuseless abuse of the welfare systemthe removal of inner city ghettosNo fitty cent

BoondockSaint

03-20-2007, 12:07 PM

Marc with a c wrote: i'd be in the nba With a sneaker deal.

Marc with a c

03-20-2007, 02:21 PM

o&a would be ahead of steve harvey.

ralphbxny

03-20-2007, 02:29 PM

Marc with a c wrote: o&a would be ahead of steve harvey. Insert rolling icon here!

nevnut

03-20-2007, 02:33 PM

I wanted to call in and say we're all slaves in this country.  Slaves of the government.

phixion

03-20-2007, 02:54 PM

the common misconception is that slavery grew out of racism. it didnt its the otherway around, racism grew out of slavery. the racism is what those wasps used to justify something that they knew in their heart was wrong, the subjugation of another human, so how does one respond? you stop looking at the individual in bondage as an actual human being. plus while i do believe slavery is wrong it was necessary. plus why every single person should be happy slavery existed: the industrial revolution. i dont believe the industrial revolution could occur in england without america sending all that cotton across the pond, and since the first advancements in industrializtion all occurred in the textile industry it makes sense to say that the industrial revolution went hand in hand with american slavery. if u dont believe me read eric williams, capitalism and slavery. he makes a much better case for this hypothesis than i ever will

Fat_Sunny

03-20-2007, 02:57 PM

If You Are A Music Lover, No Slavery Would Have MeantNo JazzNo MotownNo Rock And RollF_S Is Sure Glad That The Descendents Of Slaves Are Here.  They Are As Integrally American As The Descendents Of The Pilgims!

Bulldogcakes

03-20-2007, 05:01 PM

Then our Founding Fathers probably would have never got laid.

Snoogans

03-20-2007, 05:08 PM

i think there would be alot less racism. For one, White racism against the immigrant groups mentioned isnt anywhere near what it has been against blacks. I think white hate of blacks would be far less if they had come over here as immigrants. Also, black racism toward whites also would be alot less and there wouldn't be the conflict between the races cause there wouldn't be the same history.

Snoogans

03-20-2007, 05:09 PM

Fat_Sunny wrote: If You Are A Music Lover, No Slavery Would Have MeantNo JazzNo MotownNo Rock And RollF_S Is Sure Glad That The Descendents Of Slaves Are Here. They Are As Integrally American As The Descendents Of The Pilgims! that's a great point. No blues either

IamFogHat

03-20-2007, 05:11 PM

ESDsucks@life wrote: There would still be racism though. Just like the racism against the Irish, Asian, and Mexicans. Opinions? Like would there be hip hop or blues, derived from African tribal music, and developed in the fields. Crime, Social structures (church, classes, health services, laws), stereotypes changes?    You bring up a good point because I feel like if there had not been that precedent of slavery, blacks in early American history would have received the same racism that the Asian, Hispanic, Irish, Jewish etc. communities would have received, and things would have progressed a great deal better for them in terms of collective economic growth and receiving the same legal and social rights as everyone else.

sailor

03-20-2007, 05:13 PM

ralphbxny wrote: Marc with a c wrote: o&a would be ahead of steve harvey. <img src="http://www.ronfez.net/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" />

oh_kee_pa

03-20-2007, 05:14 PM

then nation vs nation racsism would be more flagrant... or religion vs religion..... i.e. when the irish couldnt get jobs..

SinA

03-20-2007, 05:19 PM

the south would not have had its entire economy tied to cotton, which rendered the region in ruins when slavery was abolished in the 1860's.hayseeds wouldn't be so... you know.

Crispy123

03-20-2007, 06:37 PM

Racism and slavery started with the Europeans and Indians in the Americas. The Africans jumped in late in the game.

johnniewalker

03-20-2007, 06:47 PM

Busybeeman would lose a lot of his gusto.

Cleophus James

03-21-2007, 03:41 AM

Snoogans wrote: Fat_Sunny wrote: If You Are A Music Lover, No Slavery Would Have MeantNo JazzNo MotownNo Rock And RollF_S Is Sure Glad That The Descendents Of Slaves Are Here. They Are As Integrally American As The Descendents Of The Pilgims! that's a great point. No blues either  Ok Now part 2 (but I guess only a black person can answer this):  Would you give up all these things to get out of the stigma of slavery?

A.J.

03-21-2007, 05:27 AM

Jimmy the Greek wouldn't have gotten fired.

Knowledged_one

03-21-2007, 05:36 AM

or Rush Limbaugh

Sheeplovr

03-21-2007, 05:39 AM

there would be no pyrmids

Cleophus James

03-21-2007, 05:59 AM

Sheeplovr wrote: there would be no pyrmids  There's pyrmids in America?

foodcourtdruide

03-21-2007, 06:37 AM

phixion wrote: the common misconception is that slavery grew out of racism. it didnt its the otherway around, racism grew out of slavery. the racism is what those wasps used to justify something that they knew in their heart was wrong, the subjugation of another human, so how does one respond? you stop looking at the individual in bondage as an actual human being. plus while i do believe slavery is wrong it was necessary. plus why every single person should be happy slavery existed: the industrial revolution. i dont believe the industrial revolution could occur in england without america sending all that cotton across the pond, and since the first advancements in industrializtion all occurred in the textile industry it makes sense to say that the industrial revolution went hand in hand with american slavery. if u dont believe me read eric williams, capitalism and slavery. he makes a much better case for this hypothesis than i ever willI completely disagree with you. I think technology would have progressed with or without slavery. I think one can make the argument that slavery retarded the growth of technology because instead of using more efficient labor methods, slave labor was being used, nonetheless, I'd be interested to read the Eric Williams book you mentioned.Also, slavery may have been necessary to form the world we live in today, but that is not a good or bad thing. No one should be happy slavery existed because it was immoral and a disgusting disregard for human rights.

ralphbxny

03-21-2007, 06:40 AM

oh_kee_pa wrote: then nation vs nation racsism would be more flagrant... or religion vs religion..... i.e. when the irish couldnt get jobs.. The Irish shouldnt get any jobs.....ohh damn sorry wrong thread.

Knowledged_one

03-21-2007, 06:40 AM

foodcourtdruide wrote: phixion wrote: the common misconception is that slavery grew out of racism. it didnt its the otherway around, racism grew out of slavery. the racism is what those wasps used to justify something that they knew in their heart was wrong, the subjugation of another human, so how does one respond? you stop looking at the individual in bondage as an actual human being. plus while i do believe slavery is wrong it was necessary. plus why every single person should be happy slavery existed: the industrial revolution. i dont believe the industrial revolution could occur in england without america sending all that cotton across the pond, and since the first advancements in industrializtion all occurred in the textile industry it makes sense to say that the industrial revolution went hand in hand with american slavery. if u dont believe me read eric williams, capitalism and slavery. he makes a much better case for this hypothesis than i ever willI completely disagree with you. I think technology would have progressed with or without slavery. I think one can make the argument that slavery retarded the growth of technology because instead of using more efficient labor methods, slave labor was being used, nonetheless, I'd be interested to read the Eric Williams book you mentioned.Also, slavery may have been necessary to form the world we live in today, but that is not a good or bad thing. No one should be happy slavery existed because it was immoral and a disgusting disregard for human rights. Whaqt i think is lost here is that yes we had slaves here, but how did they get here?Well conquering tribes (black tribes that is) would enslave those that they conquered and would sell them to the Persians who would in turn sell them to teh coloniesSo blacks sold other blacks into slavery, maybe that is who they should be going after for reperations

foodcourtdruide

03-21-2007, 06:58 AM

Knowledged_one wrote: foodcourtdruide wrote: phixion wrote: the common misconception is that slavery grew out of racism. it didnt its the otherway around, racism grew out of slavery. the racism is what those wasps used to justify something that they knew in their heart was wrong, the subjugation of another human, so how does one respond? you stop looking at the individual in bondage as an actual human being. plus while i do believe slavery is wrong it was necessary. plus why every single person should be happy slavery existed: the industrial revolution. i dont believe the industrial revolution could occur in england without america sending all that cotton across the pond, and since the first advancements in industrializtion all occurred in the textile industry it makes sense to say that the industrial revolution went hand in hand with american slavery. if u dont believe me read eric williams, capitalism and slavery. he makes a much better case for this hypothesis than i ever willI completely disagree with you. I think technology would have progressed with or without slavery. I think one can make the argument that slavery retarded the growth of technology because instead of using more efficient labor methods, slave labor was being used, nonetheless, I'd be interested to read the Eric Williams book you mentioned.Also, slavery may have been necessary to form the world we live in today, but that is not a good or bad thing. No one should be happy slavery existed because it was immoral and a disgusting disregard for human rights. Whaqt i think is lost here is that yes we had slaves here, but how did they get here?Well conquering tribes (black tribes that is) would enslave those that they conquered and would sell them to the Persians who would in turn sell them to teh coloniesSo blacks sold other blacks into slavery, maybe that is who they should be going after for reperations Why is that lost? No one with a valid opinion doesn't know that there was internal African slavery. This fact absolutely does not excuse European and American slave traders. Slavery in this country was morally repugnant and is still absolutely undefendable. Reparations in the United States is a silly concept that makes very little sense. Who pays? Former slave owners? What about other ethnicities that were enslaved throughout history? What's the cut off? Should American's of Persian ancestory pay American's of the ancestories that all countries Persia had slaves in? Also, what about all the unfair labor practices that took place in the United States pre-1900? Should reparations be paid for that?

Dougie Brootal

03-21-2007, 07:03 AM

johnniewalker wrote: Busybeeman would lose a lot of his gusto. <img src="/messageboard/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/lol.gif" border="0" width="20" height="20" />

EliSnow

03-21-2007, 07:08 AM

SinA wrote: the south would not have had its entire economy tied to cotton, which rendered the region in ruins when slavery was abolished in the 1860's.hayseeds wouldn't be so... you know.I think Sherman may have had a part in turning the region to ruins in addition to the emancipation of the slaves.

CofyCrakCocaine

03-21-2007, 07:37 AM

EliSnow wrote: SinA wrote: the south would not have had its entire economy tied to cotton, which rendered the region in ruins when slavery was abolished in the 1860's.hayseeds wouldn't be so... you know.I think Sherman may have had a part in turning the region to ruins in addition to the emancipation of the slaves. It was the Confeddies who burned Richmond. And the whole war in general. I doubt the South woulda become ruins if not for the whole war thing. But the war thing happened cuz of the slaves. So SinA is still right, sorta.