O Reilly goes insane on his show

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ive seen him get loud on his show but last nights segment with Geraldo Rivera looked like he was going to knock him out. Basically they were debating over an illegal immigrant who killed 2 girls in a DUI Incident


http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/04/foxs_bill_oreil.html?csp=34

[patsopinion]

you want anarchy!

i love it
o'reilly proves once again hes a nut job

[shittyhambrgers]

2 white guys yelling at each other on a political talk show.

actually, i guess geraldo isn't technically white, right? oh well.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

2 white guys yelling at each other on a political talk show.

actually, i guess geraldo isn't technically white, right? oh well.

Geraldo is half white, His father is Puerto Rican, his mother is an American born Jewish woman

[jetdog]

meh. two self-important bloviating douchebags.
I'd like to see Geraldo beat the shit out of Bill, but If I had money on it, I'd have to go with O'Reilly.

[epo]

Anybody who takes O'Reilly seriously out of their minds. Bill O has watched his key ratings drop and the ideology of fear is starting to fail on him......

Damned immigrants!

[HBox]

He did the same thing last month. The tragedy he was trying to exploit then was the Bronx fire. (http://mediamatters.org/items/200703120002)

[jetdog]

Good God HBox! What the hell is your avatar!?

[Bob Impact]

I love crazy O'Reilly. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHIN' BROTHER!
I saw this argument before, when it was Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage arguing about the Mega Powers exploding.

By the way, he's right, this guy is a scumbag.

[Arch Stanton]

It was over a topic that gets to the core of you. A drunk driver killed two teenage girls.
The drunk is an illegal immigrant, with prior dui conviction.
The area he lives in is a "safe haven city for illegal immigrants". So, instead of dealing with the perp and deporting him, or keeping him in jail, for being here illegally, he is free to kill two teenage girls.

Geraldo's point was who cares about his citizenship, he was a drunk driver.

Bill's point is that all cities that have safe for illegals policies should be dealt with.

[AgnosticJihad]

"O'Rielly goes insane on his show"?

Hasn't O'Reilly been insane for some time?

[AnnoyedGrunt]

I was half expecting Bill to shout out 'What do I have to say? This is not bit!" by the end of it.

[pennington]

As much as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with O'Reilly on this one.

The guy was here illegally, gets arrested for DUI, and then is released. If he had been deported, he wouldn't have killed somebody.

Two super-egos going at it is pretty funny, though...

[pennington]

...

[Snacks]

Geraldo killed and made O'Bully look like an ass and called him out for what he is, a Bully. He Bullies people when they wont come on his show. He says lies after lies about people. Yet no one talks about him and what he did to his former producer. He paid it off and no one is allowed to discuss it.

The end result is it was a drunk driver. Being here illegally is what he attaches to so he can try to whiten America back. Everyone in this country has benifited from illegal workers the same way they did in the 1700-1800's with slavery. But when they do something wrong then its all illegals shouldnt be here.

We will never get all the illegals (11 million) round up and departed. We will have to give them citizenship. Charge them a fine for getting here illegally, whatever. But to send people back that now have roots here and have had their children born here isnt going to happen.

The only problem I have with any illegal from any country is they al should be able to speak or should learn to speak english. I have no problem with them speaking in their native language, but the past 30 years or so the immigrants that have come here dont learn the language like they did when my parents, grandparents came to this country from Italy.

[scottinnj]

I have to say I agree with the both of them. Although I did cringe and change channels when O'Reilly really went beserk-I saw that look in Geraldo's eyes like the time he went after the White Supremacist on his old show. I didn't want to witness two journalists beat the crap out of each other. By that time though, both points of view had been made clearly.
I like O'Reilly, but I don't like his bullying tactics.
I disagree with Rivera most of the time, but he loves the US military, and I love him for that.
Geraldo was equally as right as O'Reilly, take the "illegal" status of the criminal away, and he still should have been in jail and the two girls would still be alive.
O'Reilly was right as well. As soon as his immigration status was known to be "illegal" he should have been deported, and the two girls would be still be alive.

Both were right, but had different conclusions. I'm not going to argue with anyone on this thread about the two personalities. I think we all have the right idea about what should have been done with this creep:
Either still be in jail from his previous DUI or,
Been deported.

[scottinnj]

He did the same thing last month. The tragedy he was trying to exploit then was the Bronx fire. (http://mediamatters.org/items/200703120002)

Yeah but his point wasn't that the illegals were in the building. He was mad that the NYC housing department turned a blind eye to the fact the apartments were overcrowded and all those kids died. He felt bad that the families were being exploited and the NYC system didn't care.

[yeti]

Learn English and quit flying Mexican flags.....other than that I dont give a shit if there here. Plus they make the best food.

[Dash77]

Maybe he was upset over his south Park apprance ??

[Snacks]

Yeah but his point wasn't that the illegals were in the building. He was mad that the NYC housing department turned a blind eye to the fact the apartments were overcrowded and all those kids died. He felt bad that the families were being exploited and the NYC system didn't care.

OBully exploits people more then anyone when it comes to (trying to ) make his point. He doesnt feel bad for these familes. Every policy he wants only hurts these types of families. From immigration to taxes he only wants whats good for himself and not for the country as a whole.

[scottinnj]

Everyone in this country has benifited from illegal workers the same way they did in the 1700-1800's with slavery. But when they do something wrong then its all illegals shouldnt be here.
Good point Snacks. I have always said that the most effective way to dry up illegal immigration is to go after the employers of illegals and fine the crap out of them, and the most aggregious of the companies, we should jail the owner/CEO.

We will never get all the illegals (11 million) round up and departed. We will have to give them citizenship. Charge them a fine for getting here illegally, whatever. But to send people back that now have roots here and have had their children born here isnt going to happen.

Right again, but I have some reservations with this "guest worker program" the feds are trying to put together. Mind you, I don't have any alternative, but issuing temporary work cards to immigrants is sort of like the modern equivalent of indentured servitude. No employer will have any obligation, or incentive to give these workers anything close to a decent salary or any chance to move up in the company, possibly getting a better position and a chance to become a permanent resident. I just see 11 million people trapped in poverty, and no chance of moving up, except now they are "legal" and pay taxes.

[Bulldogcakes]

Geraldo's point was who cares about his citizenship, he was a drunk driver.

Bill's point is that all cities that have safe for illegals policies should be dealt with.

I think Geraldo's more salient point was about how this story was more about exploiting the fact that the drunk driver happened to be an illegal, and how that really should be irrelevant to any good news man who isn't pushing a political agenda. O'Rielly's point about the Mayor is absurd. The Mayor isn't the INS, and has no business getting involved in Federal Law enforcement. It's called jurisdiction, Bill.

But as much as I hate to defend good ol Bill, Geraldo's face was beet red about 5 seconds into the interview. To characterize this as O'Rielly flipping out is to ignore how angry and provocative Geraldo was for the first 2 1/2 minutes. All O'Rielly did was not back down from someone who was obviously furious at him. And I agreed with every word Geraldo said.

[high fly]

2 white guys yelling at each other on a political talk show.

actually, i guess geraldo isn't technically white, right? oh well.




He was when he called himself Jerry Rivers.

[high fly]

.
The only problem I have with any illegal from any country is they al should be able to speak or should learn to speak english. I have no problem with them speaking in their native language, but the past 30 years or so the immigrants that have come here dont learn the language like they did when my parents, grandparents came to this country from Italy.


I have read quite a few accounts of immigrants fom Europe coming over here and not speaking English or learning only a few words.
The pattern is the first generation would come over and slave doing multiple menial jobs and it's the second generation that learns the language and finishes high school and builds on what the parents began.
I have read that in Milwaukee before WWII there were whole school systems where lessons were taught in German and check out the scenes in the Godfather in Little Italy where English wasn't learned.
Same with your Chinee communities out west.
Read George Crile's Charlie Wilson's War about the other major character in the book who grew up in Pennsylvania steel towns where Greek and other languages were the primary ones of the inhabitants in towns like Aliquippa.

The whole immigration scare is just that - a scare.
With a 4.5% unemployment rate, they aren't taking many jobs away from citizens.
America became great before we even had immigration laws and we'll continue to do just fine with the taco-benders.
This is just an issue for chaps with little weenies to make "macho" grunting noises about so everyone sees how "tough" they are about something.
Ever notice that?
They just haaaaave to be "tough" on something, and this is just their latest target.
"Tough" on crime.
"Tough" on drugs.
"Tough" on commies.
"Tough" on polluters.
"Tough" on tax-cheats.
And now "tough" on immigrants.

[Fat_Sunny]

Predictable Post, But Not Quite Right.

When The Milwaukee Germans Came In They Came Through Ellis Island.
They Were Tested For TB And Other Diseases.
They Had A "Sponsor"
Where They Were Going And Who They Would Live With And Who Was Accountable For Their Activities Was Known

In Other Words, We Knew Who The People Were; That They Were Healthy; And How They Would Support Themselves, And Who Would Vouch For Them.

Is That Too Much To Ask?

[waltermitty]

Is video of this up anywhere?

[sailor]

whatever your view of illegal aliens, i don't see how you can say they shouldn't be deported if they commit a crime; especially one with such a high recidivism rate (i've read as high as 1/3 are repeat offenders). it's a simple, reasonable action that would save lives.

[Yerdaddy]

Predictable Post, But Not Quite Right.

When The Milwaukee Germans Came In They Came Through Ellis Island.
They Were Tested For TB And Other Diseases.
They Had A "Sponsor"
Where They Were Going And Who They Would Live With And Who Was Accountable For Their Activities Was Known

In Other Words, We Knew Who The People Were; That They Were Healthy; And How They Would Support Themselves, And Who Would Vouch For Them.

Is That Too Much To Ask?

The legal ones came in through Ellis Island. You have to assume the illegal ones didn't. How many illegal European immigrants landed elsewhere?

And a related question: why is the annual quota for Mexican immigrants the same as it is or Irish? That's fucking absurd. I think it's because of those companies and industries that get rich off the indentured labor. Illegals can't ask for decent wages, unionize, complain to authorities, collect or ask for unemployment or disability, or have any other contact with government without risking deportation. That's a dream employee! And that's why companies and agriculture and other industry groups lobby to keep the quota low - because legal immigrants have rights and that's bad for business. They also sow hatred and ignorance about the issues of immigration. "They're criminals! 'Ill-egal!' Hello!" I say when you're invited by employers to come to the country despite an absurd policy on getting here legally, you're a guest.

Alan Greenspan told Congress on many occaisions that it had to fix the absurd quota because we NEED immigrants, including Mexicans. He said it's simple: no immigrants, no economic growth.

To hate the people you need for your economic welfare is very similar to the attitudes of plantation owners, and obviously that sentiment is alive and well today.

I'll hang up now and listen to you ignore my arguments.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPuGuaZTx8

[cougarjake13]

i thought this was gonna be about reillyluck

glad its not

[Death Metal Moe]

i thought this was gonna be about reillyluck

glad its not

Some of the people who come out to these Ron and Fez events, they come out to see Reillyluck.

[furie]

http://www.break.com/index/bill_oreilly_vs_geraldo.html

[KnoxHarrington]

The legal ones came in through Ellis Island. You have to assume the illegal ones didn't. How many illegal European immigrants landed elsewhere?

And a related question: why is the annual quota for Mexican immigrants the same as it is or Irish? That's fucking absurd. I think it's because of those companies and industries that get rich off the indentured labor. Illegals can't ask for decent wages, unionize, complain to authorities, collect or ask for unemployment or disability, or have any other contact with government without risking deportation. That's a dream employee! And that's why companies and agriculture and other industry groups lobby to keep the quota low - because legal immigrants have rights and that's bad for business. They also sow hatred and ignorance about the issues of immigration. "They're criminals! 'Ill-egal!' Hello!" I say when you're invited by employers to come to the country despite an absurd policy on getting here legally, you're a guest.

Alan Greenspan told Congress on many occaisions that it had to fix the absurd quota because we NEED immigrants, including Mexicans. He said it's simple: no immigrants, no economic growth.

To hate the people you need for your economic welfare is very similar to the attitudes of plantation owners, and obviously that sentiment is alive and well today.

I'll hang up now and listen to you ignore my arguments.

The people who complain the loudest about illegal immigrants are the first ones who'll bitch when the price of produce rises, or it becomes far more expensive to have your lawn done.

[foodcourtdruide]

O'Reily is completely exposing a tragedy to support his political point of view. How many people in this country are killed by drunk drivers a year? How many does O'Reilly talk about? If an illegal immigrant is picked up on a DWI, should they be deported? That seems to be the issue here, O'Reilly is using this families tragedy to as a punctuation point.

[A.J.]

Alan Greenspan told Congress on many occaisions that it had to fix the absurd quota because we NEED immigrants, including Mexicans. He said it's simple: no immigrants, no economic growth.

But I think we can all agree: NO LADYBOYS ALLOWED.

[scottinnj]

But I think we can all agree: NO LADYBOYS ALLOWED.


:qft:



No wait, you'll have to run that by Lil Jimmy first............

[sailor]

The people who complain the loudest about illegal immigrants are the first ones who'll bitch when the price of produce rises, or it becomes far more expensive to have your lawn done.

nice soundbite, but really based on nothing.

[blakjeezis]

actually, i guess geraldo isn't technically white, right?

I'm not so sure. I have a friend whose father went to high school with "Geraldo" except back then he was known as Jerry Rivers.

[Bulldogcakes]

The legal ones came in through Ellis Island. You have to assume the illegal ones didn't. How many illegal European immigrants landed elsewhere?

And a related question: why is the annual quota for Mexican immigrants the same as it is or Irish? That's fucking absurd. I think it's because of those companies and industries that get rich off the indentured labor. Illegals can't ask for decent wages, unionize, complain to authorities, collect or ask for unemployment or disability, or have any other contact with government without risking deportation. That's a dream employee! And that's why companies and agriculture and other industry groups lobby to keep the quota low - because legal immigrants have rights and that's bad for business. They also sow hatred and ignorance about the issues of immigration. "They're criminals! 'Ill-egal!' Hello!" I say when you're invited by employers to come to the country despite an absurd policy on getting here legally, you're a guest.

Alan Greenspan told Congress on many occaisions that it had to fix the absurd quota because we NEED immigrants, including Mexicans. He said it's simple: no immigrants, no economic growth.

That dates back to a late 60's immigration reform bill (sponsored by Ted Kennedy if I remember correctly). The old immigration laws FAVORED immigrants coming from Europe and restricted those coming from 3rd world countries. Kennedy felt this was racist, and got a bill passed where each country would be allowed THE SAME number of legal immigrants with an exception being "high tech" highly educated immigrants who would be allowed and not counted against their countries quota. So its not as conspiratorial as you've supposed. Unless you believe as Pat Buchanan did, that Ted Kennedy was trying to destroy America.

And illegals can join unions, get health/disability insurance, report a crime, pay taxes, even get drivers licenses in some areas. Many illegals are actively trying to get legal status, and work on the books and pay taxes while they wait for their case to proceed, which can take years. You're REALLY way off base on that one. Some do come from countries where they distrust authorities (for good reason) and are fearful of anyone with a badge, but those fears are unfounded unless the officer is an INS officer. Local police don't have the jurisdiction to arrest people and prosecute federal laws, thats up to the Feds. They could report someone to the INS, but then again so could you or me.


BTW-I cant remember the name of the reform bill, and I googled it and came up empty. So feel free to double check it, because I'm doing this from memory going back about 15 years. But the general idea should be correct.

[sailor]

actually, i guess geraldo isn't technically white, right?

I'm not so sure. I have a friend whose father went to high school with "Geraldo" except back then he was known as Jerry Rivers.

i had always heard that and thought that was his given name, but apparently his given name is gerald rivera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldo_Rivera). jerry rivers was his pseudonym, not vice versa.

[Doomstone]

That dates back to a late 60's immigration reform bill (sponsored by Ted Kennedy if I remember correctly). The old immigration laws FAVORED immigrants coming from Europe and restricted those coming from 3rd world countries. Kennedy felt this was racist, and got a bill passed where each country would be allowed THE SAME number of legal immigrants with an exception being "high tech" highly educated immigrants who would be allowed and not counted against their countries quota. So its not as conspiratorial as you've supposed. Unless you believe as Pat Buchanan did, that Ted Kennedy was trying to destroy America.

And illegals can join unions, get health/disability insurance, report a crime, pay taxes, even get drivers licenses in some areas. Many illegals are actively trying to get legal status, and work on the books and pay taxes while they wait for their case to proceed, which can take years. You're REALLY way off base on that one. Some do come from countries where they distrust authorities (for good reason) and are fearful of anyone with a badge, but those fears are unfounded unless the officer is an INS officer. Local police don't have the jurisdiction to arrest people and prosecute federal laws, thats up to the Feds. They could report someone to the INS, but then again so could you or me.


BTW-I cant remember the name of the reform bill, and I googled it and came up empty. So feel free to double check it, because I'm doing this from memory going back about 15 years. But the general idea should be correct.

Hmm...maybe my Google is stronger than yours, but <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Services_Act_of_1965">this</a> wasn't hard to find:

The Immigration and Nationality Act amendments of 1965 (Public Law 236 of the 89th Congress, also known as the Hart-Celler Act or the INS Act of 1965) abolished the national-origin quotas that had been in place in the United States since the Immigration Act of 1924. It was proposed by Emanuel Celler and heavily supported by Senator Ted Kennedy.

An annual limitation of 170,000 visas was established for immigrants from Eastern Hemisphere countries with no more than 20,000 per country. By 1968, the annual limitation from the Western Hemisphere was set at 120,000 immigrants, with visas available on a first-come, first-served basis. However, the number of family reunification visas was unlimited, and quickly led to chain immigration. This contravened the intention of family reunification visas, which were designed to end the separation of U.S. citizens from their families.

In the Democratic controlled Congress, the House of Representatives voted 326 to 69 in favor of the act while the Senate passed the bill by a vote of 76 to 18. President Lyndon Johnson signed the legislation into law.

The Act was influenced by the Civil Rights Movement.

While your memory is fuzzy and your interweb tubes must be clogged, you were at least in the right ballpark...

[Dan 'Hampton]

That dates back to a late 60's immigration reform bill (sponsored by Ted Kennedy if I remember correctly). The old immigration laws FAVORED immigrants coming from Europe and restricted those coming from 3rd world countries. Kennedy felt this was racist, and got a bill passed where each country would be allowed THE SAME number of legal immigrants with an exception being "high tech" highly educated immigrants who would be allowed and not counted against their countries quota. So its not as conspiratorial as you've supposed. Unless you believe as Pat Buchanan did, that Ted Kennedy was trying to destroy his liver.


Fixed it for you. I really don't see how illegal immigrants can stay here without repercussions. If they come into the country starting off commiting a crime, the them curing cancer still is tainted by that first act. I agree that they help the economy. Hell if you want a good ditch dug don't get some white boy like me. Go down to 7 11 because that guy will do a hell of a better job than me. We need immigrants but the faucet can't be running full speed all the time, because then we end up with way to many and it becomes a problem getting rid of them.

[Bulldogcakes]

Fixed it for you. I really don't see how illegal immigrants can stay here without repercussions. If they come into the country starting off commiting a crime, the them curing cancer still is tainted by that first act. I agree that they help the economy. Hell if you want a good ditch dug don't get some white boy like me. Go down to 7 11 because that guy will do a hell of a better job than me. We need immigrants but the faucet can't be running full speed all the time, because then we end up with way to many and it becomes a problem getting rid of them.

Not really. People keep coming as long as they keep finding jobs. After 9/11, illegal immigration ground to a halt in NYC. Why? The economy was in the tank and Pedro told his brother Julio dont bother coming, Because Pedro couldn't find work for himself much less his brother.
Its a self correcting problem. Good ol' economics 101. No need for any new laws, but then again, when has that ever stopped Congress from passing them?

[Dan 'Hampton]

I disagree with you because when you got no work you go to the government for a check. They aren't any different than anyone else. Except I don't think they really have a legal claim to that.

[FUNKMAN]

O'Reilly is wrong, it's a DUI issue.

Geraldo made a great point about "illegal aliens" but it's not the whole reason there are so many. These illegal aliens are being hired by American businesses from big to small.

It seems to relate to the drug argument. On one hand countries are getting blamed for producing the drugs YET on the other hand the DEMAND is coming from within our country.

[FUNKMAN]

I also meant to bring up the incident with Geraldo and the southern white racist guy(maybe kkk) early in Geraldo's career. Geraldo was interviewing/talking to the guy and the guy calls Geraldo a Spic so Geraldo punches the guy in the mouth and they start fighting.

[Fat_Sunny]

[QUOTE=FUNKMAN;1264291]I also meant to bring up the incident with Geraldo and the southern white racist guy(maybe kkk) early in Geraldo's career.QUOTE]

Was That Senator Robert Byrd, Democrat Of West Virginia, And Former Senate Majority Leader For The Democrats, And A Former KKK Member. Fat Always Wondered How Many Lynchings He Was Involved In, And Why Jesse Jackson Gave Him A Free Ride.

[IamFogHat]

I think the important question is did Jack Meyoffer call?
http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/uploaded_images/oreillyface-726495.jpg

[Yerdaddy]

That dates back to a late 60's immigration reform bill (sponsored by Ted Kennedy if I remember correctly). The old immigration laws FAVORED immigrants coming from Europe and restricted those coming from 3rd world countries. Kennedy felt this was racist, and got a bill passed where each country would be allowed THE SAME number of legal immigrants with an exception being "high tech" highly educated immigrants who would be allowed and not counted against their countries quota. So its not as conspiratorial as you've supposed. Unless you believe as Pat Buchanan did, that Ted Kennedy was trying to destroy America.

And illegals can join unions, get health/disability insurance, report a crime, pay taxes, even get drivers licenses in some areas. Many illegals are actively trying to get legal status, and work on the books and pay taxes while they wait for their case to proceed, which can take years. You're REALLY way off base on that one. Some do come from countries where they distrust authorities (for good reason) and are fearful of anyone with a badge, but those fears are unfounded unless the officer is an INS officer. Local police don't have the jurisdiction to arrest people and prosecute federal laws, thats up to the Feds. They could report someone to the INS, but then again so could you or me.


BTW-I cant remember the name of the reform bill, and I googled it and came up empty. So feel free to double check it, because I'm doing this from memory going back about 15 years. But the general idea should be correct.

http://www.tvacres.com/images/fonz.jpg
"I was w-w-w-w-r-rrr... I was w-w-w-w-w-wr-wr-wr-wro-wro-wrooo..."

Wait a minute! That bill got rid of different quotas for each country of origin and gave everyone the same quota. Apparently the laws have changed since then. (http://archives.rezo.net/migreurop.mbox/200605.mbox/%3C447AB573.1010502@gisti.org%3E)

"People ask: Why don't they come legally? Why don't they wait in line?" said Jeffrey S. Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center, a research organization in Washington. "For most Mexicans, there is no line to get in."

The United States offers 5,000 permanent visas worldwide each year for unskilled laborers. Last year, two of them went to Mexicans. In the same year, about 500,000 unskilled Mexican workers crossed the border illegally, researchers estimate, and most of them found jobs.

"We have a neighboring country with a population of 105 million that is our third-largest trading partner, and it has the same visa allocation as Botswana or Nepal," said Douglas S. Massey, a sociology professor at Princeton. Several guest worker programs exist for Mexicans to come temporarily to the United States. But there is general agreement that those programs are inefficient, and employers often avoid them.

As Mexican immigration has accelerated, the United States has cut back on the permanent-resident visas available to unskilled Mexicans and shifted the system progressively away from an emphasis on labor, to favor immigrants with family ties to American citizens or legal residents, or who have highly specialized job skills.

The Bracero program was closed in the mid-1960's. In 1976, Congress imposed an annual limit of 20,000 permanent visas on each country in the Western Hemisphere, including Mexico. In 1978, in 1980 and again in the 1990's, further changes resulted in reductions of resident visas for Mexican workers.

For Mexicans who try to immigrate legally, the line can seem endless. A Mexican who has become a naturalized United States citizen and wants to bring an adult son or daughter to live here faces a wait of at least 12 years, State Department rosters show. The wait is as long as seven years for a legal resident from Mexico who wants to bring a spouse and young children.

Apparently I stole that quote from the guy in this article and fucked up the country of comparison. The correct answer was "What is Botswana or Nepal? Botswana or Nepal. Soreyyyyyy."

I don't claim to understand the immigration policies of the U.S. and frankly I'm not going to try to analyze it so I can be reputted with "You want to turn us into The United Barrios of Mexico!" But obviously it's pretty fucking hard to get in here legally even when they're encouraged to come here by so many American companies and industries. So many Mexicans do what most Americans would do in their shoes, they pack up their families and come here for a better life. I'd do it for my family if I had one and I gave a shit about them.

Here's the most poigniant of the Greenspan quotes, even though they weren't disputed: (http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/hh/2000/February/Testimony.htm)
Imbalances in the labor markets perhaps may have even more serious implications for inflation pressures. While the pool of officially unemployed and those otherwise willing to work may continue to shrink, as it has persistently over the past seven years, there is an effective limit to new hiring, unless immigration is uncapped. At some point in the continuous reduction in the number of available workers willing to take jobs, short of the repeal of the law of supply and demand, wage increases must rise above even impressive gains in productivity. This would intensify inflationary pressures or squeeze profit margins, with either outcome capable of bringing our growing prosperity to an end.

"They're destroying America!!!!!!!" ...by not coming here. I don't know. Maybe Greenspan's a commie?

Here's more economic analysis of immigration from that bastion of the liberal media, The National Review. (http://www.nationalreview.com/kudlow/kudlow200604041505.asp)

As long as the American boom beckons, Mexicans in search of prosperity will continue to stream to this country. They have a strong incentive to do so. The only way to reduce illegal immigration, therefore, is to raise the unskilled H-2B visa level and bring it in line with job openings in the United States. This is the only feasible economic solution to the chronic problem of illegal immigration. The idea worked forty years ago with the successful Bracero program for farm workers. It can work again.

Today’s low visa limit of only 140,000 has caused illegal flows to skyrocket. This must be changed. Tamar Jacoby of the Manhattan Institute estimates that U.S. labor-market conditions can absorb about 400,000 Mexican immigrants per year. This would balance labor supply-and-demand conditions and illegal immigration would plummet.

You can build a fence, but desperate Mexicans in search of economic opportunity will climb over it or tunnel under it. This is the reality. And by the way, our H-1B visa program for skilled workers, now at only 65,000, should be unlimited. We need all the scientists and engineers we can get.

Once these immigrants get here they work hard. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Hispanic unemployment is only 5.5 percent, compared to 4.8 percent overall.

As for the claim that illegal workers don’t pay taxes, Princeton professor Douglas Massey estimates that roughly two-thirds of undocumented immigrants pay the FICA payroll tax. Overall, illegals have fed $7 billion to Social Security and $1.5 billion to Medicare. They are contributing to our wealth, not reducing it.

And what do they take from the system? According to Forbes magazine, only 10 percent of illegal Mexicans have sent a child to an American public school and just 5 percent have received food stamps or unemployment benefits. A U-Cal Davis study also shows that more immigrant workers leads to more economic growth. This is standard economics. Multiply an enlarged workforce times existing productivity and you get more economic growth.

But for some reason, immigration opponents can’t make this connection. They are blinded by fear-mongering, defeatism, and pessimism.

I should have said "many of them can't or are afraid to..." join unions, collect benefits, etc. I wrote that post twice after the first one got deleted by some board or local glitch. Like politics in general doesn't piss me off enough.

[ralphbxny]

Reilly the conservative man is a dick....Reilly luck is the woman!!

[Bulldogcakes]

Something else to throw into this immigration mix.

You know how everyone in Washington knows that when the Baby Boomers are all retired we have a HUGE problem with Social Security and Medicare? Not enough working people to pay for the retirees benefits (the ratio declines from something like 3.5-1 now to less than 2-1 then).
Well, one answer is to increase taxes around 50%, another answer is to cut benefits by about a 1/3. OR you could increase the # of working age individuals and keep the current system solvent. There's only one way to do that, more immigration. Take your pick.

[epo]

No reason to start a new thread....

But the Bill O'Reilly vs. Mark Cuban begun:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0a2GT_JIes&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/S0a2GT_JIes&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

It starts as 2:39.

The issue is that Mark Cuban funded a movie that O'Reilly doesn't like.

[epo]

From Cuban's blog: (http://www.blogmaverick.com/2007/11/11/bill-oreilly-just-a-wonderful-confused-guy/)

I've grown to love Bill OReilly. Seriously. If there is anyone who can publicize a political movie, its Bill and I truly appreciate that about him.

I recognize what the Director Brian DePalma set out to do . He wanted to make a movie about the horrors of war. He did it. He wanted to send an anti war message. Whether or not he accomplished that, will probably depend on your perspective before you saw the movie.

[HBox]

I never heard of this movie, I know next to nothing about it but I have such an urge to see it now.

[TheMojoPin]

If Cuban somehow manages to buy the Cubs, I will never have had and never will have a bigger mancrush.

And O'Reilly is so tedious. His "far left" terminology is such bunk. "Far left" basically covers everyone who isn't to the Right or centrist, and he just uses it at will. He attemtps to make it sound like a fringe group, but he's actually lumping millions of people into it.

[Bulldogcakes]

This "Despicable" "Outrage" of a movie is based on an actual event, isn't it? While its not a documentary it is based on an actual event, no?

Is Bill mad at those who did this? No. Does he show any sympathy for the victim? No. Its just another avenue for his knee jerk, all purpose "Blame Hollywood" reaction. I'm sure he's worried that average Americans will think this is going on all the time in Iraq. If anyone over the age of 13 thinks this is typical of military conduct or commonplace among soldiers, then they're idiots. But Bill should be careful about what he wishes for. If the world was free of idiots, then O'Rielly would have no audience.

If Bill was half as mad at the animals who committed this crime, instead of the messengers who recreated this story, he'd make some sense. Still not much, but a little.