Support Imus and Free Speech and Talk Radio BE OUTRAGED!!!

[Reephdweller]

I am reposting this somewhat from HTG's thread over there. Below are links to a petition to support Don Imus, and free speech in general. Please whatever you can do to show your support will be greatly appreciated.

Silera put together a petition. Please sign it and show your support...
http://tinyurl.com/28pcu7

Please also speak out to CBS as well, let your voices be heard...
http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/fb_global_form.shtml

Let Al Sharpton know what you think as well
http://www.nationalactionnetwork.net/html/contact_us.htm

[ScottFromGA]

i couldnt write to Al Schwoogie....

ill be deemed a "Racists" pfffft

[Don Stugots]

the Al Sharpton link didnt work, who would have thought.


Great work on the thread Reef.

[Tenbatsuzen]

this worked so well five years ago.

[TheMojoPin]

Holy Crap, The Government Is Punishing Him For What He Said??!?! This Is Huge!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!

[Reephdweller]

the Al Sharpton link didnt work, who would have thought.


Great work on the thread Reef.

Fixed the Sharpton link...

http://www.nationalactionnetwork.net/html/contact_us.html

[burrben]

I'm Mad As Hell And I'm Not Gonna Take It Anymore!!!!!!!

[Jimbo_NY75]

548 and counting

[zolo6029]

Please don't forget to contact the sponsors who pulled out of the show,that we will be spending our money on companies who SUPPORT the 1st Ammendment! They are all cowards. Let Rev al go to staples. I bet when he does go the store will have a security camera on his wide ass!

[TheMojoPin]

Please don't forget to contact the sponsors who pulled out of the show,that we will be spending our money on companies who SUPPORT the 1st Ammendment!

http://www.voiceovermarketplace.com/uploaded_images/text-to-speech-frustration-748529.jpg

On a serious note, the lack of posting in this thread seems to indicate something I've noticed for a while now...people love to be outraged over other outraged people doing something about their outrage. But they usually don't do anything. It's much easier to act like Al Sharpton has these crazy magical powers that nobody can possibly fight against and to moan about "how the founding fathers are rolling in their graves" or "1984 is here" or some other such bullshit. Al Sharpton isn't some kind of invincible supervillain. Imus getting fired isn't the end of the world. If people are genuinely bothered by this, get out there and do something. Organize groups for protests and boycotts. Don't make some useless internet petition or a few random calls/e-mails and then sit back and think that's all you've done. Fight fire with fire.

[Justice4all]

http://www.voiceovermarketplace.com/uploaded_images/text-to-speech-frustration-748529.jpg

On a serious note, the lack of posting in this thread seems to indicate something I've noticed for a while now...people love to be outraged over other outraged people doing something about their outrage. But they usually don't do anything. It's much easier to act like Al Sharpton has these crazy magical powers that nobody can possibly fight against and to moan about "how the founding fathers are rolling in their graves" or "1984 is here" or some other such bullshit. Al Sharpton isn't some kind of invincible supervillain. Imus getting fired isn't the end of the world. If people are genuinely bothered by this, get out there and do something. Organize groups for protests and boycotts. Don't make some useless internet petition or a few random calls/e-mails and then sit back and think that's all you've done. Fight fire with fire.

Mojo I agree, but it is tough to get motivated about someone I could give a shit about.
If Howard Stern got fired for being ass on the radio I would feel the same way.
yes partially because I could give two shits about him.
And we all know how Sharpton will never get more out of his life then he already had. He is trying to be a hero now since his days of Gold Chains and 20 chins are behind him.

I think what happened to Imus WAS wrong but, as I said, it is hard to get SO up in arms about something that does not effect me as much.

[whiskyriver]

Mojo I agree, but it is tough to get motivated about someone I could give a shit about.
If Howard Stern got fired for being ass on the radio I would feel the same way.
yes partially because I could give two shits about him.
And we all know how Sharpton will never get more out of his life then he already had. He is trying to be a hero now since his days of Gold Chains and 20 chins are behind him.

I think what happened to Imus WAS wrong but, as I said, it is hard to get SO up in arms about something that does not effect me as much.

It might not effect you now,but it will,someday soon......
I for one don't like the feeling of not being able to speak my mind without getting into trouble.

[TheMojoPin]

It might not effect you now,but it will,someday soon......
I for one don't like the feeling of not being able to speak my mind without getting into trouble.

This is what I'm talking about...again, the doom 'n' gloom talk, like this vague fate of "being silenced" is inevitable and we can do nothing but wait for it and complain and make heady "woe is us" statements. It's so very emo with a slightly political twist.

Personally, I don't think this indicates that at all...I think Imus being fired is going overboard, but it's not like it happened out of nowhere. The means exist in this country, and always have, that if you piss off enough people, they can try to make it bite you in the ass. I'm not saying that that's always right or fair, but it's there, and those same outlets exist if someone wanted to take on someone like Sharpton...but in the end nobody does because they don't really care and it's much easier to just complain. Sharpton isn't invincible...if he's speaking somewhere, organize a protest. If he's coming on a TV show or a radio show, boycott the advertisers and picket the station. Get the word out and make it known. If people REALLY want him to fight him tit for tat on something like this, they could. It would be an uphill battle based on the needed organization and working from the ground up, but it could be done. We won't, hoeever, see any of the "outraged" people try. Why? Because it's so much easier to just sign an online petition or post on a message board or talk on a radio show or call into one and vent...and that's it. If people REALLY think this is an indicator of things to come on a massive scale, do something about it. Sitting back and moaning about how it's inevitable solves nothing and pretty much makes that person culpable for not trying. Back up the talk and fight back...the same means are there as the people that get guys like Imus fired have.

[LOAF]

Almost up to 2200

[crb1]

This is what I'm talking about...again, the doom 'n' gloom talk, like this vague fate of "being silenced" is inevitable and we can do nothing but wait for it and complain and make heady "woe is us" statements. It's so very emo with a slightly political twist.

Personally, I don't think this indicates that at all...I think Imus being fired is going overboard, but it's not like it happened out of nowhere. The means exist in this country, and always have, that if you piss off enough people, they can try to make it bite you in the ass. I'm not saying that that's always right or fair, but it's there, and those same outlets exist if someone wanted to take on someone like Sharpton...but in the end nobody does because they don't really care and it's much easier to just complain. Sharpton isn't invincible...if he's speaking somewhere, organize a protest. If he's coming on a TV show or a radio show, boycott the advertisers and picket the station. Get the word out and make it known. If people REALLY want him to fight him tit for tat on something like this, they could. It would be an uphill battle based on the needed organization and working from the ground up, but it could be done. We won't, hoeever, see any of the "outraged" people try. Why? Because it's so much easier to just sign an online petition or post on a message board or talk on a radio show or call into one and vent...and that's it. If people REALLY think this is an indicator of things to come on a massive scale, do something about it. Sitting back and moaning about how it's inevitable solves nothing and pretty much makes that person culpable for not trying. Back up the talk and fight back...the same means are there as the people that get guys like Imus fired have.


I think a lot of the anger from the situation isn't because he was fired for pissing so many people off; it's because he was fired and the only people that seem pissed are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Everyone else has just thrown out the obligatory "it's an awful, horrid thing to say...blah, blah, blah." The rest is just the media beating the story to death, because they can only cover one story at a time until it is beaten to death.

Even the Rutgers players seemed like they were being forced to react. The real injustice in all of this is that they don't even get to be proud of what they accomplished; they have to answer one question after another about a comment uttered by an old man that they've probably never heard of.

[TheMojoPin]

I think a lot of the anger from the situation isn't because he was fired for pissing so many people off; it's because he was fired and the only people that seem pissed are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Everyone else has just thrown out the obligatory "it's an awful, horrid thing to say...blah, blah, blah." The rest is just the media beating the story to death, because they can only cover one story at a time until it is beaten to death.

Even the Rutgers players seemed like they were being forced to react. The real injustice in all of this is that they don't even get to be proud of what they accomplished; they have to answer one question after another about a comment uttered by an old man that they've probably never heard of.

So protest the media outlets that are overreacting. My point is that griping doesn't have to be the only answer. Angrily punching keys on a keyboard doesn't do anything.

[EliSnow]

So protest the media outlets that are overreacting. My point is that griping doesn't have to be the only answer. Angrily punching keys on a keyboard doesn't do anything.

It makes words, sometimes sentences.

[AKA]

If two years ago Howard Stern held a rally to protest the rights to free speach, many of the people sobbing about poor Imus would be laughing their asses off and saying "GOOD!" Someone tried to make the "slippery slope" argument yesterday, ignoring that rights have been taken away, and many of them have been doing nothing about it - and some of them were even some of the ones ridiculing Stern's warning cries.

NOW they want to lecture ME? Pffffft.

A true champion of free speech (imo) was John Denver, who went to Washington to speak out against Tipper Gore. Shoulder to shoulder with Frank Zappa and Dee Snyder, he took the side of WASP and Prince and Jello Biafra - artists the PMRC were targeting - and said that their fight was his fight.

I think a lot of the anger from the situation isn't because he was fired for pissing so many people off; it's because he was fired and the only people that seem pissed are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

He was fired because he is a fucking idiot and didn't man up in his original apology. I am a broken record, but the jerk sounded more and more out of touch the more he talked. This gave people who wanted to support him a moment to take a step back which provided time for the critics to inform people of his history with race based "humor." The longer this went, the more pressure sponsors got from the public to step away, which finally made CBS and NBC to drop his drippy, hypocritical ass. CBS and NBC were going to support him, but the shit bag didn't know how to shut up and give a real, sincere apology because there is nothing real or sincere about him.

When you step out of the echo chambers, regular people who don't live their lives on messageboards or listen to talk radio are really upset by this. Maybe they would give him a pass early on, but THE MORE HE TALKED - THE WORSE HE SEEMED. I said it at the start of the week with the "you people" comment - it sent a clear red flag that this is someone who felt he was above his critics and who was only sorry he was in this situation - that gave "those people" an opportunity to see what else he might have been saying all of these years - "thieving Jews", "Jew Boy," "Faggot," "Gorrillas" or when admitted telling a producer off-camera that McGuirk was hired to perform "nigger jokes."

[TheMojoPin]

So protest the media outlets that are overreacting. My point is that griping doesn't have to be the only answer. Angrily punching keys on a keyboard doesn't do anything.

It makes words, sometimes sentences.

And the naked ladies to appear.

[Mzap2]

Thanks for the thread. I agree 100% with you. We are too fat dumb and happy in this country. I am not an Imus fan but what these people were able to accomplish in this short time indicates that there is something very wrong here and we cannot ignore it.

The sensitivity level in this country is at an all time high and will be our eventual undoing.
you can take that to the bank!


Mark Z.http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Mzap2/Ron%20and%20Fez/RonandFez.jpg

[crb1]

If two years ago Howard Stern held a rally to protest the rights to free speach, many of the people sobbing about poor Imus would be laughing their asses off and saying "GOOD!" Someone tried to make the "slippery slope" argument yesterday, ignoring that rights have been taken away, and many of them have been doing nothing about it - and some of them were even some of the ones ridiculing Stern's warning cries.

NOW they want to lecture ME? Pffffft.

A true champion of free speech (imo) was John Denver, who went to Washington to speak out against Tipper Gore. Shoulder to shoulder with Frank Zappa and Dee Snyder, he took the side of WASP and Prince and Jello Biafra - artists the PMRC were targeting - and said that their fight was his fight.



He was fired because he is a fucking idiot and didn't man up in his original apology. I am a broken record, but the jerk sounded more and more out of touch the more he talked. This gave people who wanted to support him a moment to take a step back which provided time for the critics to inform people of his history with race based "humor." The longer this went, the more pressure sponsors got from the public to step away, which finally made CBS and NBC to drop his drippy, hypocritical ass. CBS and NBC were going to support him, but the shit bag didn't know how to shut up and give a real, sincere apology because there is nothing real or sincere about him.

When you step out of the echo chambers, regular people who don't live their lives on messageboards or listen to talk radio are really upset by this. Maybe they would give him a pass early on, but THE MORE HE TALKED - THE WORSE HE SEEMED. I said it at the start of the week with the "you people" comment - it sent a clear red flag that this is someone who felt he was above his critics and who was only sorry he was in this situation - that gave "those people" an opportunity to see what else he might have been saying all of these years - "thieving Jews", "Jew Boy," "Faggot," "Gorrillas" or when admitted telling a producer off-camera that McGuirk was hired to perform "nigger jokes."

His apologies on top of apologies are the reason he did get fired. An apology is an admission of guilt/wrongdoing, and the more he apologized, the worse he looked.

It's not like it could have turned out any worse for him had he just moved and never backpedaled from his "joke."

[crb1]

So protest the media outlets that are overreacting. My point is that griping doesn't have to be the only answer. Angrily punching keys on a keyboard doesn't do anything.

People like to complain, not protest. What protest have you seen besides the always hilarious (to me) footage of Reverend Al walking down the sidewalk with a stoic look on his face. I think they just use the same stock footage of him over and over at this point.

[TheMojoPin]

Thanks for the thread. I agree 100% with you. We are too fat dumb and happy in this country. I am not an Imus fan but what these people were able to accomplish in this short time indicates that there is something very wrong here and we cannot ignore it.

Or is it actually working like it's supposed to? We have the means to do this for a reason.

The sensitivity level in this country is at an all time high and will be our eventual undoing.
you can take that to the bank!

How?

[Death Metal Moe]

I'll be sending out some more E-mails to those people tonight. It may not do much, but this story has really fucking pissed me off.

And if you don't think they're gonna continue on towards our radio hosts, you're crazy.

[Don Stugots]

I'll be sending out some more E-mails to those people tonight. It may not do much, but this story has really fucking pissed me off.

And if you don't think they're gonna continue on towards our radio hosts, internet radio show hosts and death metal bands you're crazy.

agreed.

[Ritalin]

"Why can't anyone take a joke anymore!....I want my First Amendment rights!....What about rappers!....Sharpton is an idiot!....It's the death of Talk Radio!.....Didn't Jesse say Hymietown? What about that what about that what about that?....pussy corporations....it's not fair....white people can't say anything anymore....ahhhhhhhhhh!

http://steve.files.wordpress.com/2006/06/hair-on-fire.jpg

[davidb72]

No justice, no free speech!

[TheMojoPin]

Does anyone actually listen to Jackson or Sharpton? Again, I'm not trying to say they know what they're doing, but Jackson has stated repeatedly that Imus is being held (unfairly or otherwise is subjective) to a different standard than the "shock jocks" because Imus has, for a long time now, presented his show as a political one. Jackson is basically flat out saying that he "gets" that there is a difference between a show like Imus' and O&A, Stern, etc.. Now I'm not saying that this somehow makes everything OK, but I'm just curious if all the people dropping the "they're coming for us next!" hyperbole have bothered to hear any of this. Imus has very obviously tried to present his show as one centered on politics and current affairs like so many other pundits out there...it's been the focus of his show for a long time now. There is a huge difference in context from hearing a show like O&A's, where everything is presented as ridiculous and over the top, do racial bits (though even there there's a line...hello, Greaseman), and show that has tons of politicians on and is broadcast on a cable news network randomly and repeatedly dropping racial and downright racist comments.

[Bulldogcakes]

Does anyone actually listen to Jackson or Sharpton?

No, of course not.


http://www.dga.org/news/pr-images/dec-03/moonvesdga-f.jpg

[epo]

Does anyone actually listen to Jackson or Sharpton? Again, I'm not trying to say they know what they're doing, but Jackson has stated repeatedly that Imus is being held (unfairly or otherwise is subjective) to a different standard than the "shock jocks" because Imus has, for a long time now, presented his show as a political one. Jackson is basically flat out saying that he "gets" that there is a difference between a show like Imus' and O&A, Stern, etc.. Now I'm not saying that this somehow makes everything OK, but I'm just curious if all the people dropping the "they're coming for us next!" hyperbole have bothered to hear any of this. Imus has very obviously tried to present his show as one centered on politics and current affairs like so many other pundits out there...it's been the focus of his show for a long time now. There is a huge difference in context from hearing a show like O&A's, where everything is presented as ridiculous and over the top, do racial bits (though even there there's a line...hello, Greaseman), and show that has tons of politicians on and is broadcast on a cable news network randomly and repeatedly dropping racial and downright racist comments.

Very true. When Imus changed the platorm to "serious talk" he changed the rules on himself. Imus had a parade of media/sports/political giants on his show. This definitely legitimized himself in that world, but he forgot the rules of that new world.

[johnniewalker]

Does anyone actually listen to Jackson or Sharpton? Again, I'm not trying to say they know what they're doing, but Jackson has stated repeatedly that Imus is being held (unfairly or otherwise is subjective) to a different standard than the "shock jocks" because Imus has, for a long time now, presented his show as a political one. Jackson is basically flat out saying that he "gets" that there is a difference between a show like Imus' and O&A, Stern, etc.. Now I'm not saying that this somehow makes everything OK, but I'm just curious if all the people dropping the "they're coming for us next!" hyperbole have bothered to hear any of this. Imus has very obviously tried to present his show as one centered on politics and current affairs like so many other pundits out there...it's been the focus of his show for a long time now. There is a huge difference in context from hearing a show like O&A's, where everything is presented as ridiculous and over the top, do racial bits (though even there there's a line...hello, Greaseman), and show that has tons of politicians on and is broadcast on a cable news network randomly and repeatedly dropping racial and downright racist comments.

You may get that his show was more focused on politics as of late and maybe Al Sharpton and Jackson get the difference too, but if you look at the general media that message is severely dulled. I've seen more articles place him in the realm of a shock jock bringing up old stunts like the time he ordered 1300 cheeseburgers in the 70's. Does it matter to the public that it is a shock jock or a politically focused show?

It's ridiculous to think you can somehow focus your outrage when you start using as inexact terms as racist or racism. Something that is subjective and a now a permanent stigma on whoever is targeted. Why don't you start trying to define morals and when something is going to be morally offensive first.

[TheMojoPin]

You may get that his show was more focused on politics as of late and maybe Al Sharpton and Jackson get the difference too, but if you look at the general media that message is severely dulled. I've seen more articles place him in the realm of a shock jock bringing up old stunts like the time he ordered 1300 cheeseburgers in the 70's. Does it matter to the public that it is a shock jock or a politically focused show?

It's ridiculous to think you can somehow focus your outrage when you start using as inexact terms as racist or racism. Something that is subjective and a now a permanent stigma on whoever is targeted. Why don't you start trying to define morals and when something is going to be morally offensive first.

I'm not that saying that Shaprton or Jackson are right...I'm trying to contrast the constant doom 'n' gloom warnings that they're coming after shows like O&A's next when Jackson himself has flat out said that there's a difference between Imus show over the last decade or so and the out and out "shock jocks" that guys like O&A. Bottom line, that's flying in the face of people yelling that they're going after any and all radio shows. No, it's not any kind of promise or anything, but it's in stark contrast to the idea that they're looking at all radio shows the same without any sense of context. Again, not saying that they've done anything right...just pointing it out.

And I honestly think it's a cop out to try and lump Imus in with the "shock jocks" based on his past as opposed to the type of show he does now and has done for a while. That's like saying Keith Olberman isn't clearly trying to be a political pundit and news commentator because of his past working in sports journalism.

[Don Stugots]

mojo, maybe Jesse sees a difference in the shows but last night on the local NBC news, ch. 4, they did a feature on how "shock jocks" like Imus will be tamed. they offered nothing real or informative just bullshit but my point is that other people dont. the next group to complain doenst have to be him or Rev. Al it could be anything or anyone.

[TheMojoPin]

At the end of the day, the people that protested this used means and avenues available to all Americans. Nobody was actually forced to do anything in any way the threatens the 1st Ammendment. Are people saying that nobody can protest something that genuinely pisses them off? And I'm not asking whether or not the specifics of this justify such a response...at what point is it OK for people to take perfectly legal and without reason negative response to something widespread that they find especially offensive, insulting or hurtful? Is "not being PC" ultimately the same response as being TOO PC and just telling people to shut up and not say what they actually feel? Our country was designed so the public can rise up and respond just like this. When do people here feel that it would be OK to have such a public response? We're all generally accountable for the things we say and do in the workplace...are we saying that radio personalities are totally exempted from these kind of expectations?

[Don Stugots]

Mojo,

i dont think anyone here or in general for that matter is saying that you shouldnt speak up if you strongly disagree with something that someone has said. I personally disagree with calling for someone to be fired from there job for saying something. No one has the right to take away someone's lively-hood. That is just bad karma and dirty pool to me.

[jetdog]

I think the problem here is that the outrage Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson represented was fabricated, it was an artifact of the media. The people calling for Imus's fireing were not at all the majority, they were high profile media figures, and the people representing the market forces, i.e. advertisers, panicked.

[jetdog]

Well, no more Nikes for me. (http://www.adrants.com/2007/04/nike-bitchslaps-imus-with-big-fat-thank-y.php)

[Don Stugots]

i dont wear them to begin with. New Balance and Converse All Stars is how I roll.

Let's boycott 'em.

[reeshy]

homo

[HBox]

Well, no more Nikes for me. (http://www.adrants.com/2007/04/nike-bitchslaps-imus-with-big-fat-thank-y.php)

All the sweatshops they run and this is what set you off?

[jetdog]

All the sweatshops they run and this is what set you off?

I know, I know...I just didn't see a sweatshop thread anywhere...

[KnoxHarrington]

Here's the thing: if about three weeks ago, you'd come to me and said "Could calling the members of a women's college basketball team 'Nappy-headed ho's' get you fired?" I'd say probably not. If I were a PD manning the dump button at a station, no way I would have dumped it.

It just seems like the threshold for what's acceptable is getting constantly lowered, and the chilling effect grows. And I think that there's a real societal good that some degree of offensive, rude, and provocative talk does. It stirs things up, it challenges stale thought, it threatens orthodoxy. Now, of course, there's a vast difference between an accomplished social provocateur like Bill Hicks and the dickhead at the bar telling fag jokes, and I by no means want to suggest that offense in and of itself is a good thing.

But I worry we're going to far, we're sanitizing and watering down social discourse, and the good sort of offensiveness is being banned with the bad. And that's why I would have liked CBS Radio and MSNBC to stand behind Imus. Some punishment would have been warranted; the two week suspension probably would have been fair, if a bit harsh. But the more words that get added to that list of things you can never say on television (or radio), the worse it is for all of us.

[jetdog]

and the chilling effect grows. And I think that there's a real societal good that some degree of offensive, rude, and provocative talk does. It stirs things up, it challenges stale thought, it threatens orthodoxy. Now, of course, there's a vast difference between an accomplished social provocateur like Bill Hicks and the dickhead at the bar telling fag jokes, and I by no means want to suggest that offense in and of itself is a good thing.

That's exactly it! It's chilling! It's hard to put into words how things like this effect us, other than a shiver of the spine!

[docgoblin]

Here's the article from ABC.com. The interesting thing is that CBS really had the ability to hit the dump if they found the comment objectionable. I don't think MSNBC was on any kind of delay, but they might have been. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. The comments from the former FCC commissioners are quite eye-opening...

By ELLEN DAVIS & CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
May 3, 2007

Radio host Don Imus is going to sue CBS for $120 million, according to a draft copy of the complaint obtained by ABC News' Law & Justice Unit.

The suit is expected to be filed next week.

A draft copy of Imus's lawsuit says that the network expected him to be controversial and irreverent under the terms of his contract. And he claims Imus's show was on a five second delay that allowed the network to censor him if they wanted.

The draft points out that Imus wasn't fired for two weeks after the remarks were made.

Meanwhile, four former FCC commissioners contacted by ABC News say they do not believe that the speech was actionable under current federal guidelines that prohibit profanity or indecency on public airwaves.

Imus was fired April 12, after he made insensitive remarks about the Rutgers women's basketball team.

Martin Garbus -- a powerful First Amendment lawyer who represented controversial comedian Lenny Bruce -- said he would file a complaint against the network in the days ahead.

In a statement released by CBS in response to news stories about the impending lawsuit, CBS said that "We terminated Mr. Imus for cause. Based on the comments in question and relevant contract terms, we believe that the termination was appropriate and CBS would expect to prevail in any attempt by Mr. Imus to recover money for his actions."

The network is expected to rely on a clause in the radio talk show host's contract that says he can be terminated for 'just cause' if CBS determines that he used "distasteful or offensive words or phrases, the broadcast of which [CBS] believes would not be in the public interest or may jeopardize [the networks's] Federal license to operate..."

But Garbus, who has successfully defended hundreds of high profile First Amendment cases, said CBS still breached Imus' contract when the company fired him.

He cited a section of his client's employment contract today that says Imus' "services to be rendered … are of a unique, extraordinary, irreverent, intellectual, topical, controversial and personal character … and … these components are desired by Company and are consistent with Company rules and policies."

While the lawsuit focuses on the contract, hovering above the dispute is the question of whether Imus's comments put the network in jeopardy with the FCC - which has been uncharacteristically aggressive in policing the airwaves in recently years.

One former FCC commissioner who spoke to ABC News suggested that CBS had gotten exactly what it had bargained for.

"The issue is one more of extremely poor judgement than it is an FCC issue," said ex-commissioner Harold Furtchgott-Roth. "That's what Imus' schtick has been for years."

[TheMojoPin]

Haw-haw! "Shctick."

[Bulldogcakes]

[
He cited a section of his client's employment contract today that says Imus' "services to be rendered … are of a unique, extraordinary, irreverent, intellectual, topical, controversial and personal character … and … these components are desired by Company and are consistent with Company rules and policies."

I saw Jeffery Tubin (WNYC/NPR contributor, CNN Legal analyst, wrote for the New Yorker) discussing Imus' contract on CNN the other night. He felt Imus has a fairly strong case, especially with this clause in his contract, which he surmised Imus had put in there for EXACTLY this reason. He's been in hot water before, and wanted to make sure he was covered if anything happened. He went on to say that he thinks it will eventually be settled, most of these disputes are, but Imus will walk away with a BIG check. Probably around half of his remaining $ owed, which was close to 40 mil.

[docgoblin]

but Imus will walk away with a BIG check. Probably around half of his remaining $ owed, which was close to 40 mil.

Which means that CBS and NBC will end up paying Imus more than they would have lost from the few advertisers that might have temporarily bailed. It's quite amusing when you think about it. In the end, however, the networks will take the moral high ground and say they weren't worried about the loss of advertising dollars. They'll say they fired Imus because it was the "right thing to do." What hypocrites they all are.

[TheMojoPin]

Which means that CBS and NBC will end up paying Imus more than they would have lost from the few advertisers that might have temporarily bailed. It's quite amusing when you think about it. In the end, however, the networks will take the moral high ground and say they weren't worried about the loss of advertising dollars. They'll say they fired Imus because it was the "right thing to do." What hypocrites they all are.

How do you know they're paying more? You don't think they knew what his contract said? I'd bet big money they were expecting a lawsuit and estimated that whatever they pay him will not exceed lost revenue from advertisters pulling out.

[docgoblin]

How do you know they're paying more? You don't think they knew what his contract said? I'd bet big money they were expecting a lawsuit and estimated that whatever they pay him will not exceed lost revenue from advertisters pulling out.

It was well documented that Imus' show generated about 15M for CBS and about 10M for NBC per year, for a total of 25M from ALL advertisers combined. If a few of those advertisers bailed out (knowing most would have stayed) and were given a complete refund for the 2007 year I'm pretty sure they'd only have lost about 5-10M on the high end. it would probably have been less. If they end up paying Imus 20M or so it will have ended up costing them more than if they had shown some guts and backed him up.

[TheMojoPin]

It was well documented that Imus' show generated about 15M for CBS and about 10M for NBC per year, for a total of 25M from ALL advertisers combined. If a few of those advertisers bailed out (knowing most would have stayed) and were given a complete refund for the 2007 year I'm pretty sure they'd only have lost about 5-10M on the high end. it would probably have been less. If they end up paying Imus 20M or so it will have ended up costing them more than if they had shown some guts and backed him up.

So the advertising specifically for his show made them $25 million? Well, what's to stop those advertisers pulling their money for other shows? Or other advertisers from doing the same? And not just from the radio shows, what about the TV division? Once advertisers start bailing, it wouldn't be surprising to see a mass exodus that really leaves the company in the hole. This isn't just about the money his show made.

[cougarjake13]

So the advertising specifically for his show made them $25 million? Well, what's to stop those advertisers pulling their money for other shows? Or other advertisers from doing the same? And not just from the radio shows, what about the TV division? Once advertisers start bailing, it wouldn't be surprising to see a mass exodus that really leaves the company in the hole. This isn't just about the money his show made.

i agree

most of the time people seem near sighted and dont realize what kind of damage one or a few advertisers pulling out can do,
like you said mojo they might also pull out any tv or internet ads they have and other companies are not gonna want to be associated with that person or show if other advertisers are leaving b/c then it looks like they are supporting that offender

i dont agree with it but i understand that they're in the business to make money and they stand to lose a ton if something negative comes along

[TheMojoPin]

i dont agree with it but i understand that they're in the business to make money and they stand to lose a ton if something negative comes along

Same here. I know I take shots at the guy because I REALLY hated his crappy show, but it's pretty stupid what he got fired over. That said, I see why his employers did it, and I guarentee you they knew they'd be paying him a big chunk of money and figured it would be less than revenue lost.

[Bulldogcakes]

Same here. I know I take shots at the guy because I REALLY hated his crappy show, but it's pretty stupid what he got fired over. That said, I see why his employers did it, and I guarentee you they knew they'd be paying him a big chunk of money and figured it would be less than revenue lost.

I don't think so. Whatever show they replace him with will do very well to get half (more likely 1/3 or less) of his audience, and forget about his high roller advertisers, of which he had many. You dont build a 30 year listening audience overnight. So long term loss there.

Short term, its fairly simple. They would have had to pay him 8 mil to generate 25 mil in revenues, about a third of total revenues. If Tubin is correct in that they now have to pay him 20 mil and (if we're VERY generous) the next show will do half of his ratings (12 mil in revenues) and that new host will have to be paid as well (4 mil). Total it up

Expected 2007 revenues-10-12 mil

minus

New Host-4 mil
Imus-20 mil

Net loss-12-14 million

and I think thats being generous, it will likely be more. And if you project those numbers over the course of Imus' 5 year deal they get worse.

Total Ad Revenues with Imus 125 mil
Total Ad Revenues with new show 50-60 mil

Total loss of ad revs 65-75 mil

Again, I think these numbers are generous. Realistically they'll be much worse.

Mojo, its a bad business decision on the radio side. Hideous, actually. They did it because CBS has billions in total revenue, and didn't want to risk a widening boycott or bad publicity by being associated with Imus. Especially with how this dominated news coverage for about a full week.

[TheMojoPin]

I don't think so. Whatever show they replace him with will do very well to get half (more likely 1/3 or less) of his audience, and forget about his high roller advertisers, of which he had many. You dont build a 30 year listening audience overnight. So long term loss there.

Short term, its fairly simple. They would have had to pay him 8 mil to generate 25 mil in revenues, about a third of total revenues. If Tubin is correct they now have to pay him 20 mil and if were VERY generous, the next show will do half of his ratings (12 mil in revenues) and that new host will have to be paid as well (4 mil). Total it up

Expected revenues-10-12 mil

minus

New Host-4 mil
Imus-20 mil

Net loss-12-14 million

and I think thats being generous, it will likely be more. And if you project those numbers over the course of Imus' 5 year deal they get worse.

Total Ad Revenues with Imus 125 mil
Total Ad Revenues with new show 50-60 mil

Total loss of ad revs 65-75 mil

Again, I think these numbers are generous.

Mojo, its a bad business decision on the radio side. Hideous, actually. They did it because CBS has billions in total revenue, and didn't want to risk a widening boycott or bad publicity by being associated with Imus. Especially with how this dominated news coverage for about a full week.

Which potentially and likely leads to more revenue being loss throughout the company. You have no idea what kind of expenses they'll lose or recoup with Imus' slot, so you're basically pulling those figures out of thin air. Do you really think they can't find some pre-existing show to plug in to that slot that's not going to leave such a gap? Contrary to what people seem to refuse to believe, Imus wasn't this incredible juggernaut of radio. He had a bit of a legacy, but not much. His "shock jock" schtick was tired and broke and his feeble attempts to become a political show just make him a copy of the dozens of other high profile shows out there doing the same thing. He wasn't terribly unique or irreplaceable and I really don't see how him being fired is going to lead to losing anywhere near that much money, if any at all. He's not a big enough name to lead to that kind of loss. His legacy was basically grandfathered in (kind of literally, hooo-ah!), but I don't think that it'll be too difficult to plug in a different "cranky political show" and pull in similar numbers.

[Bulldogcakes]

Which potentially and likely leads to more revenue being loss throughout the company. You have no idea what kind of expenses they'll lose or recoup with Imus' slot, so you're basically pulling those figures out of thin air. Do you really think they can't find some pre-existing show to plug in to that slot that's not going to leave such a gap? Contrary to what people seem to refuse to believe, Imus wasn't this incredible juggernaut of radio. He had a bit of a legacy, but not much. His "shock jock" schtick was tired and broke and his feeble attempts to become a political show just make him a copy of the dozens of other high profile shows out there doing the same thing. He wasn't terribly unique or irreplaceable and I really don't see how him being fired is going to lead to losing anywhere near that much money, if any at all. He's not a big enough name to lead to that kind of loss.

Absolutely not. Again, you dont build a 30 year listening audience overnight. People have listening habits and become loyal to certain shows. Imus audience was older, more affluent and his advertisers were high end types (Net Jet/Mercedes, etc) that stations die for. He had a big following here in NY with the Wall St types. I know its different around the country, where syndicated radio is the norm. But in NY very few national shows do well.

If you think ratings are easily replaced, I'd suggest you look at WNEW's ratings when O&A got fired, or at K-Rock when Howard Stern left. In both cases, they ended up changing their entire STATION FORMAT because their ratings plummeted so badly.

[TheMojoPin]

Absolutely not. Again, you dont build a 30 year listening audience overnight. People have listening habits and become loyal to certain shows. Imus audience was older, more affluent and his advertisers were high end types (Net Jet/Mercedes, etc) that stations die for. He had a big following here in NY with the Wall St types. I know its different around the country, where syndicated radio is the norm. But in NY very few national shows do well.

If you think ratings are easily replaced, I'd suggest you look at WNEW's ratings when O&A got fired, or at K-Rock when Howard Stern left. In both cases, they ended up changing their entire STATION FORMAT because their ratings plummeted so badly.

Was he an anchor to his station like Stern and O&A were to theirs? I'm asking in all seriousness, I don't even know what station Imus was on in NYC in the first place. Besides, it's not like his NYC station is the only station he was on. I'm also confused about your financial context...you're focusing on Imus in NYC with your last post while his show was national. The issue here isn't just the money CBS makes or loses over him NYC...it's a national issue. And it's great that he netted those swanky advertisers...but when they start pulling out because of the hooplah, they're not really doing him or CBS too much good, are they?

[Bulldogcakes]

Was he an anchor to his station like Stern and O&A were to theirs? I'm asking in all seriousness, I don't even know what station Imus was on in NYC in the first place. Besides, it's not like his NYC station is the only station he was on. I'm also confused about your financial context...you're focusing on Imus in NYC with your last post while his show was national. The issue here isn't just the money CBS makes or loses over him NYC...it's a national issue. And it's great that he netted those swanky advertisers...but when they start pulling out because of the hooplah, they're not really doing him or CBS too much good, are they?


Yeah, it was said at the time Imus was fired that the local NY station WFAN drew about 10 mil per year from his show alone. They still have a popular afternoon drive show (Mike & The Mad Dog) so I doubt they'll change formats. They do sports talk the rest of the day. But they'll definitely take a huge hit losing Imus, and will likely fire most of the staff they had (salespeople, etc) surrounding his show. Last week they had Boomer Esiason as a guest host, this week its Patrick MacEnroe. Big drop off in both cases. Plus, they're both sports guys. Imus did a politics/comedy show aimed at an older demo. So they're not even targeting the same audience. I think they know that audience is lost.

As far as high swanky advertisers go, expect them to go with Imus wherever he lands. Again, bad for CBS-Radio. Other hosts on the station said that many of the advertisers who were loyal to Imus swore they'd never advertise with the station again, furious over what happened to him.

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, it was said at the time Imus was fired that the local NY station WFAN drew about 10 mil per year from his show alone. They still have a popular afternoon drive show (Mike & The Mad Dog) so I doubt they'll change formats. They do sports talk the rest of the day. But they'll definitely take a huge hit losing Imus, and will likely fire most of the staff they had (salespeople, etc) surrounding his show. Last week they had Boomer Esiason as a guest host, this week its Patrick MacEnroe. Big drop off in both cases. Plus, they're both sports guys. Imus did a politics/comedy show aimed at an older demo. So they're not even targeting the same audience. I think they know that audience is lost.

To a degree. Imus had his audience, but it doesn't sound like his audience was indicative of the audience for the rest of the station. It's not like him leaving is going to sink the whole station because he was the epitome of the demographic they were aiming for. The "older demos" are not the most profitable, right? It's not necessarily a bad thing that his anomaly of an older demo compared to the rest of lineup is gone.

As far as high swanky advertisers go, expect them to go with Imus wherever he lands. Again, bad for CBS-Radio. Other hosts on the station said that many of the advertisers who were loyal to Imus swore they'd never advertise with the station again, furious over what happened to him.

I'd seriously question that the "swanky" advertisers are going to follow Imus wherever he goes. WFAN is a pretty high profile station, and Imus is unlikely to get the same kind of exposure he had there and on syndication and on MSNBC before he was fired. Why are those "swanky" advertisers just going to blindly follow him when he's nowhere near being a sure bet? And which advertisers sais they would never advertise? How much did they pay? And if they don't want to advertise with WFAN, well, think bigger. Advertisers could be saying the same thing nationally, but I doubt the ones with the big one dealing with CB-freakin'-S are going to cut these huge ties over Imus. Sounds like you're talking about local NYC advertisers.

[TooLowBrow]

Didn't the NY lotto advertisers just pull out of O+A?

[epo]

I'd seriously question that the "swanky" advertisers are going to follow Imus wherever he goes. WFAN is a pretty high profile station, and Imus is unlikely to get the same kind of exposure he had there and on syndication and on MSNBC before he was fired. Why are those "swanky" advertisers just going to blindly follow him when he's nowhere near being a sure bet? And which advertisers sais they would never advertise? How much did they pay? And if they don't want to advertise with WFAN, well, think bigger. Advertisers could be saying the same thing nationally, but I doubt the ones with the big one dealing with CB-freakin'-S are going to cut these huge ties over Imus. Sounds like you're talking about local NYC advertisers.


As far as high swanky advertisers go, expect them to go with Imus wherever he lands. Again, bad for CBS-Radio. Other hosts on the station said that many of the advertisers who were loyal to Imus swore they'd never advertise with the station again, furious over what happened to him.

You guys must be talking about local advertisers. Local advertisers would actually bother to call the station to "deliver a message" about their dissatisfaction about the Imus firing. As far as CBS upper management is concerned, that is a shame, but not the end of the world.

The advertisers they (CBS Radio) are really loyal to are the national advertisers. The corporations that make ad buys that are in the millions and span across their 180 radio stations. Those are the ad buys they really care about in the grand scheme.

Everybody brings up numbers that Imus brought to the station, like $40M in ad revenue. Sure that's alot of money to you & me & alot of people, but to CBS Radio which did something like $3.5 Billion in revenue last year, it's not quite the force you think it is. At the end of the day, CBS Radio decided that Imus just wasn't worth it.

If Imus were working for an independent station he'd probably still have a job as his revenue would have mattered.

[TheMojoPin]

You guys must be talking about local advertisers. Local advertisers would actually bother to call the station to "deliver a message" about their dissatisfaction about the Imus firing. As far as CBS upper management is concerned, that is a shame, but not the end of the world.

The advertisers they (CBS Radio) are really loyal to are the national advertisers. The corporations that make ad buys that are in the millions and span across their 180 radio stations. Those are the ad buys they really care about in the grand scheme.

Everybody brings up numbers that Imus brought to the station, like $40M in ad revenue. Sure that's alot of money to you & me & alot of people, but to CBS Radio which did something like $3.5 Billion in revenue last year, it's not quite the force you think it is. At the end of the day, CBS Radio decided that Imus just wasn't worth it.

If Imus were working for an independent station he'd probably still have a job as his revenue would have mattered.

Exactly. Thank you for breaking it down better than my rambling.

[docgoblin]

The ironic (and very creepy) thing to remember, in hindsight, is that if everyone (CBS, NBC and the advertisers) had sat tight just through the "suspension," and not acted so rashly, the whole affair would have been forgotten in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings. Sharpton could never have kept the focus on himself during that tragedy. He would have been crucified. Imus should have taken the suspension and laid low for the two weeks. He should never have given Sharpton the ammunition to take the issue to the level that he did so quickly. Imus' immediate and numerous apologies, as well as appearing on that idiot's radio show just allowed Sharpton to keep the spotlight on himself, which is all he's concerned about. He really doesn't care about the Rutgers basketball team, or any other group he allegedly defends. They were just another vehicle for him to get his name in the papers and his ugly mug on TV, and probably put a few more pennies in his pocket. Imus allowed Reverend Al to take it to that level, so in the end he screwed himself, not to mention Bernard McGurk and anyone else who fell in the wake of this stupidity. The only difference is that Imus has the scratch to support himself for many years without ever working again. I don't think that can be said for anyone else who lost their job. You can even say that the Imus situation may now have caused JV & Elvis their jobs, not to mention several other broadcasters that have recently been fired or suspended because of something they said which offended the PC Police.

[TheMojoPin]

The ironic (and very creepy) thing to remember, in hindsight, is that if everyone (CBS, NBC and the advertisers) had sat tight just through the "suspension," and not acted so rashly, the whole affair would have been forgotten in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings. Sharpton could never have kept the focus on himself during that tragedy. He would have been crucified. Imus should have taken the suspension and laid low for the two weeks. He should never have given Sharpton the ammunition to take the issue to the level that he did so quickly. Imus' immediate and numerous apologies, as well as appearing on that idiot's radio show just allowed Sharpton to keep the spotlight on himself, which is all he's concerned about. He really doesn't care about the Rutgers basketball team, or any other group he allegedly defends. They were just another vehicle for him to get his name in the papers and his ugly mug on TV, and probably put a few more pennies in his pocket. Imus allowed Reverend Al to take it to that level, so in the end he screwed himself, not to mention Bernard McGurk and anyone else who fell in the wake of this stupidity. The only difference is that Imus has the scratch to support himself for many years without ever working again. I don't think that can be said for anyone else who lost their job. You can even say that the Imus situation may now have caused JV & Elvis their jobs, not to mention several other broadcasters that have recently been fired or suspended because of something they said which offended the PC Police.

Or they just wait to fire Imus then and nobody cares.

[docgoblin]

Or they just wait to fire Imus then and nobody cares.

Many people cared, if only to protect free speech. It matters not what you thought of Imus personally (or JV & Elvis for that matter). He was fired and now the dominoes are falling. It's only a matter of time before O&A go down given the current climate. Ron and Fez, however, are too smart. they play this PC game on Free FM perfectly... And they're still very funny. Ronny's the real edgy talk radio genius. Not Stern, not O&A, not even Imus... Ronny really seems to know how to placate the powers-that-be and still put on a terrific show. They'll soon be offerd O&A's morning spot when the axe comes down on those guys... But I'm sure Ronny will turn it down as it would require him to get up far too early.

[cougarjake13]

so they had john and pat mc enroe on this week and now geraldo in imus old spot

are these auditions ?? or just fill ins til a new guy/girl shows up ???

[TheMojoPin]

Many people cared, if only to protect free speech.

Someone get me the big knife.

[ralphbxny]

Sign this and send the links to all your friends!!!

[mdr55]

Doghouse!!!