The power of negative thinking. How does one stay positive?

[Death Metal Moe]

I apoligize in advance for the length of this thread.

Something that my friends and family HATE about me is the fact that I can't ask for help. I was never really able to. I always felt like people have a lot of their own problems and I don't want to burden them with mine too. I also have this problem where I devalue my own thoughts and feelings, but that's a different problem. Even posting here is an admission of weakness in my mind because I'm asking for help AND I wasn't brave enough to ask someone in person, face to face. Sorry, lots going on in my little mind.

Recently I went through a VERY bad point in my life mentally. Between stress at work and a health scare with my father, I was in a really dark place. Turns out my father is in good health, he thought he was having heart problems but it seems to be an ulcer. Doctors checked his heart and it's fine. They are keeping an eye on him and did some medication changes for his high blood pressure and the ulcer.

But back to my point. I was just thinking about all this shit 24 hours a day. It kept me up almost all night at the height of it. It was kicking my old panic attacks into high gear where I was having them 3 to 4 times a week in different severities. It was also kicking up my latent hypochondria I've had for all my life. So every ache was a death sentence in my mind. Every random headache was a tumor. And I was getting panic attacks and headaches a lot because I was thinking about panic attacks, headaches and everything that started it. It's a visious circle.

I just couldn't forget it. It was on my mind all day. The sick part is that if I happened to forget about it, I was fine. If I could joke away the thoughts or got involved with a customer, suddenly when I remembered I was supposed to be feeling sick, I realized I ws fine but my mind would just make me feel sick again. It's so fucking frustrating to KNOW you're doing something to yourself but you can't reverse it.

But eventually I learned my father was fine. And eventually I worked through the stressful stuff at work. Something in my mind just started to think more positively.

So here comes the part where I ask for help. I know the power of negative thinking. It will just bog you down. Day and night, no hope in sight. I went through something like this a few years ago when I was unemployed but not this bad.

How do the optimists on this messageboard keep in a positive frame of mind? I know it's not a perfect world for you either, but I really want to remain positive. Is there anything you do? Is there something you say to yourself 1st thing in the morning? I've just been trying to keep in mind all the positive things about myself and my life that I enjoy when I start to even think I'm moving in the negative direction. Right now it's a chore to do, I want to make it natural where the negative thoughts never come in again. I understand my mind may just be wired like that, but I will fight it.

Any help would be appreciated, and especially help from people who have been through thoughts like this before.

Ps. I also want to make it clear that I understand there are people with REAL problems in their lives. Bobo, Paul O and Fez come to mind right away. I know I'm just a middle American white guy bitching all the time, and remembering that makes me feel like even more of a whining bitch. But I still put the request out there.

Thank you.

[Death Metal Moe]

I also understand how ironic it is that a guy named DEATH METAL Moe is asking how to stay positive.

I never enjoyed the evil, pornographic or gore aspects of the music. Death Metal for me was more of an expression of inner strength and doing something I love with my friends who I care about very deeply. The DEATH part of it never meant a celebration of death, dying, gore, violence against women or anyone else or any of that Satanic nonsense.

Music and more importantly Metal has been more about Love and friendship than it ever was anything negative in my life.

[Don Stugots]

sometimes i feel the same way Moe. you are in good company. somedays it is a struggle just to get out of bed. I dont know how GVAC does it.

[Death Metal Moe]

sometimes i feel the same way Moe. you are in good company. somedays it is a struggle just to get out of bed. I dont know how GVAC does it.

Now that I think of it, this might be the perfect place to discuss this. I can get more input from people on here than I could sitting down with just one or two of my friends.

[Don Stugots]

that is true. here you get 5 good opinions and a few dick jokes.

[cougarjake13]

i have a similar problem in that when my mind is oocupied during the day at work, or watching tv, or posting on here i'm fine

but the millisecond i stop doing something and im just laying in bed the thoughts in my head just start flying, not being happy where i am, what i m doing, what else i could be doing in its place

also i have a habit of going over potential conversations i may have the next day when confronted by a boss, potential interviewer, etc and i cant just do it once

ill wind up going over it a million times in my head until i eventually fall alseep or take something to help me sleep

as for staying positive i guess i just kinda put it on the back burner during the day but when my mind isnt being occupied but some mindless entertainment its all over

mainly i try to figure what will make me happy and put all my efforts into accomplishing that and whenever things go bad i just say well its not permanent ill be doing this very soon so ill be ok

hope i was any help for ya

[Bossanova]

I know it sounds cliche but I never sweat the small stuff. I usually just do what I feel like doing and not worry about things till they actually happen. When they do, I just confront them and not sweat them either. I find that worrying or dwelling on things never make things better nor dose it help your health. Oh yeah, I also drink. No matter what is going on in my life, I always listen to a band that will never let me down and I roll with it.

[J.Clints]

when I get down I think WWDMMD.......It stands for WHAT WOULD DEATH METAL MOE DO? Moe We all feel this way. You are not alone. But I have 2 kids to keep me going.

[jetdog]

http://www.alfrankenweb.com/stuart1.jpg

In all seriousness, comedy makes a difference for me, a big difference. I'm not capable of being as positive in life as I want to be, or maybe even should be, I've got it good (I'll refer to the closing comments of the begining post), but I just can't shake heinous thoughts sometimes. I find comedy in life when I can, I laugh to keep from crying sometimes. I joke with my dad about taking his medications for his heart, I joke with my wife about her bouts with illness, I joke about how broke we are, I joke with my best freind about him being in federal prison.
You've got one of the greatest outlets possible though, I don't know how some people make it through life not being completely infatuated with music.
Anyway, if you ever figure out the secret, please let me know.

[Fat_Sunny]

After Living More Years Than Just About Anyone Here, Fat Is Convinced That All Of Us Are "Wired" For A Certain Outlook, But That, With Effort, We Can Modify The Wiring.

Fat Was Blessed To Be Wired As "Happy-Go-Lucky", But He Has A Sibling Who Is Not. Same Parents, Same Upbringing, Entirely Different Outlooks On Life.

That Being Said, Here Are Some Tips:

1. Get A Sense Of Accomplishment Out Of Your Job. No Matter What Your Job, At The Beginning Of EVERY Day Say To Yourself "I Want To Accomplish These Three Things Today". Honestly, Nothing Makes A Man Feel Better Than Setting A Target And Then Acheiving It, No Matter How Small Or Silly The Target May Seem. If You Leave Your Job Each Day Feeling Like You Accomplished Something, You Will Feel Good.

2. Have A Hobby. Fat's Not Sure If Music Is Your Job Or Your Hobby, Or Both. If It Is Not, Get A Hobby That Relaxes You While Still Challenging You. For F_S It Is Gardening And Landscaping. It Is Another Venue In Which To Accomplish Things, As Well As Forcing You To "Smell The Roses".

3. Play Upbeat Music. If Fat's Feeling A Bit Blue, He Puts On Some Music That Is Impossible To Be Sad To. Fat Doubts That DMM Shares His Taste, But Songs Like "Can't Help Myself" And "Walking On Sunshine" And "Still The One" Are Impossible To Be Sad To. Whatever Your Taste, Play Music That Lifts Your Mood.

4. Exercise: Proven To Both Energize And Relax You. Even If It Is Just A Short Walk, Exercise Every Day.

5. Smile: This Sounds Silly, But You Do Not Feel Sad If You Are Smiling. Try It, Even If You Have To Force A Smile Onto Your Face. Fat Heard About A Study On This, And It Really Works. So Force Yourself To Smile, Even When Down.

6. Get A Pet. Depending On Your Circumstances, A Pet Is Proven To Make You Feel Better. Fat's Animals Make Him Laugh All Day Long! Again, Another PROVEN Stress Reliever.

7. Always Bear In Mind: "This Too Shall Pass!"

[JesterOfSadness]

I'm probably one of the last people to ask that question.

[FUNKMAN]

i believe I gain confidence from just handling day-to-day responsibilities. going to work, paying bills, being civil to your fellow man. it may not sound like much to some and I am a 'realist' and know i could do more but I also know I could do much worse. I basically understand who I am and it helps me with my own expectation levels

i'm not one to dwell on the negatives for too long but look and hope to learn from mistakes either I've made or others have made. although I think I know how you've felt when you sometimes couldn't stop thinking negatively.

I have a brother who I believe kept thinking negatively about something that happened in his life and then couldn't reverse it without the help of medication. he spent weeks in jail, hospitals, and courtrooms at various times before he started taking medication and at times afterwards when he would stop taking his medication.

don't look down upon yourself unless you've done something to warrant it and take confidence in the good decent things you do

and if all else fails just tell a bunch of corny ass jokes like i do :tongue: there's no where else to go but up after that

[Gvac]

Moe, I give you a lot of credit for being so open about your struggles. It's not easy to bare one's soul, but it's also most definitely not a sign of weakness. In fact, quite the opposite. It takes a certain amount of strength and self confidence to admit that you're not perfect and not totally capable of handling anything and everything life throws your way all by your lonesome.

There are many things I take solace in, from friends to music to philosophy. I'm a big fan of Eastern schools of thought and I read verses from the Tao Te Ching every night before I go to bed.

It's what really helps me put my life, the world, and the entire universe in perspective. I think everyone needs to be able to see past themselves and their own little "world" and look at the greater picture. For some, this is their religion. For others it's philosophical works.

The answer won't be the same for everyone, but it's important that you find your answer.

[Death Metal Moe]

Thanks everyone for your input here. I mean I can take some jokes but I appreciate everyone keeping it polite in the "That's Life" forum. I just put it here not because I was unable to take some ribbing about my problems, but because this is the forum for such discussions.

I've come to realize that a lot of it was me being selfish. I was just worrying about MYSELF a lot. How I felt at that moment. And probably a little too much how I would feel if my father was gone, not that I was worried about him.

Basically it looks like I need to think about others more then worry about myself. I guess that's what some of you mean about your kids keeping you going. You're not just worrying about yourselves anymore.

I find messing around on my computer and listening to XM and FM every weeknight to be somewhat relaxing.

I don't know exactly what "My Answer" will be, but I am starting to understand that being with my friends and family helps a lot.

[Don Stugots]

Moe, thinking of yourself is not a bad thing at all. It is something that I had to learn how to do. I spent my life helping and supporting my family. I was the man of the house at an early age and one day after 20 years of divorce my parents got back together, i struggled with my now smaller role in their lives. It was tough but most of life has been. this was no different.

I have found that if I just tell myself that if I just give myself a peep talk of something like "I can get through this. This situation is not tougher than me." I can get by. Also, at the hight of stress & I am in to a full panic attack I think of something nice. Like when I was swimming with the Dolphins in Mexico, it helps me to get by. Trust me, I use that one alot and it helps.

That experience did change me in a way i really cant explain in public but i can in private. Sorry.

[Gvac]

It's not a question of selfishness, Moe. The main thing you can control in this world is the way you live your life.

Eat when you're hungry, sleep when you're tired, and look for solutions when there's problems. Don't dwell on them or view them as insurmountable.

Don't think that your problems are any less daunting than anyone else's and don't beat yourself up for thinking that yours aren't real. Just realize that there's a right way and a wrong way to deal with them.

One of the main concepts of the Tao is "wei wu wei" which means "do not do" or "action non-action." It means that everything in life becomes second nature to someone who has mastered the art of living, so he doesn't have to "do" anything, yet nothing remains undone.

If that makes any sense to you at all, you'll begin to understand how to walk the path through life.

[Wallower]

I've started this response about twenty times now, ranging from the cliche to the extremely personal. I guess I'll just boil it down to this. Life can be very hard. I've had a few tragedies in my life and they've taught me that life/happiness/normalcy can be taken away from you at any time. There really is no choice other than to stay positive and make the most of things. Like you said in your original post, someone out there always has it worse than you. As far as I'm concerned all people are equal and we're all eventually going to face the unknowable. You can enrich your life by just being more empathetic to the human struggle. Help people when you can and never miss an opportunity to have fun and be with people. Also just recognize that no one is happy 100% of the time. When you get down, learn how to pick yourself up, or if it's really bad learn how to ask for help. You've got more friends than you realize.

[Death Metal Moe]

Just wanted to add that I don't sit around feeling sorry for myself anymore. I used to do that and fought hard to stop, kinda like I feel I have to fight now to stay positive.

I know I have it VERY well. I have a great family. I have great friends. Right now I have a good job even if it was stressing me out for a little while.

But there's some guilt associated with that. As I sit there and think about all these stupid things I'm worrying about, I think to myself "Boy you're a whining little cunt aren't you? How do you think AIDS babies in Africa feel? How do you think families who just lost their father in Iraq feel?" Shit like that, and it's very true. I DON'T have it hard at all compared to 3/4 of the world and that just makes me feel like an even bigger piece of shit for worrying about my own problems.

It's mostly a mind that is racing all the time, and then I start worrying about worrying and it just compounds itself. Not sure why I can talk about it calmly now, but like I said. I've been coming out of it a lot. I have like 1-2 bad days a week now, and those bad days like a 3 of 2 out of 10, where I was having like 7-8 out of 10 days 4-5 times a week.

[bobrobot]

Wow, I just read this whole thing!!! I'll put in my 2 cents whether it sounds like a greeting card or not!!! Cherish every person, everything & every moment, love everything you find loveable, laugh when the opportunity presents itself, be helpful, be vulnerable, be honest, be silly, be free, have fun (a smart kid I once met said, "we are here to have fun!")never regret an experience, just learn from it. find yer own way in life, they say when a person dies, a library is lost. See to it that when yer time has come, that library is Phuckin' HUGE!!! Recently, I spend half my day in abject misery & the other half grinnin' like a fool. It's hard work to find the humor & the good in life sometimes, but it would be MUCH HARDER to live in misery ALL the time. I feel like a total idiot writing all this stuff (I am trying tho...)... I really do wish you well & I hope you find something, anything that works!

Putting yerself out here was a brilliant & brave start!!! There are many good & extremely worthwhile people here!!! I dare say they may have saved my life a couple times w/out even knowing it... or did they??? (Hmmm)

It's all a string of different moments... is that string theory?

[milliehatchett]

Hi Moe,

It's really all a matter of perception. What we put out in the universe is what we get back. I can tell you that, for me, speaking negatively all of the time can become habit-forming. Additionally, psychologists will tell you that our subconscious mind DOES hear what comes out of our mouths. Through thought "patterns" and speech patterns, we can form a schema in the brain that keeps us in that loop. Once I started speaking more positively (instead of jumping the gun and assuming out loud that "things aren't going to work out" - "they never work out for me", etc), my whole attitude changed over time.

I know this might sound like new age bullshit but it has worked for me. I agree with GVAC that you need to find your own solution.

[thelyonhart]

Negative thinking is just thinking, i think the worst thing you could do now is to get further down by feeling bad for having negative thoughts. They are just thoughts, sometimes they make you smile, sometimes they make you frown, but certainly getting down on yourself for getting down is just gonna send you on a downward spiral. Instead, when you have a positive thought, make sure to remind yourself and congratulate yourself for having a positive thought, send your shit on an upward spiral, homie. Like a twister of positivity laying waste to the plains of despair.

[mdr55]

Positive reinforcement, affirmation, encouragement, cognitive restructuring, hope, changing one's perception, doing stuff you like to do (that doesn't produce a negative consequence), acknowledging a positive self perception and self image, laughter, nutrition, increasing physical activity, being around other positive people and all that other stuff people do to stay positive.

[Don Stugots]

i could use some positive thinking right now, i am on the verge of a breakdown.

[Dougie Brootal]

(insert dick joke)

seriously guys,
i know what yer sayin. just keep in mind that shit always gets better. everyone has these feelings, regardless of whether they are going through something traumatic at the time or not. to quote a great forum....That's Life: The Forum!

[Don Stugots]

i bumped this thread because i am being overwhelmed with negative feelings and thoughts the last few weeks. mentally and emotionaly i am on a roller coaster. one day great the next i want to lock myself in a closet and not come out. stress is down from work but up from home life. regina and i had a huge fight yesterday which didnt help. the diet is in the toilet, for my hard work i havent lost a pound and feel like crap. i am exhausted from working nights and lack of sleep. i also have a migraine for the last two days.

thank you.

[Bossanova]

i bumped this thread because i am being overwhelmed with negative feelings and thoughts the last few weeks. mentally and emotionaly i am on a roller coaster. one day great the next i want to lock myself in a closet and not come out. stress is down from work but up from home life. regina and i had a huge fight yesterday which didnt help. the diet is in the toilet, for my hard work i havent lost a pound and feel like crap. i am exhausted from working nights and lack of sleep. i also have a migraine for the last two days.

thank you.

Stugs, we already know. You don't need to come out


Im sorry, it was right there

[J.Clints]

i bumped this thread because i am being overwhelmed with negative feelings and thoughts the last few weeks. mentally and emotionaly i am on a roller coaster. one day great the next i want to lock myself in a closet and not come out. stress is down from work but up from home life. regina and i had a huge fight yesterday which didnt help. the diet is in the toilet, for my hard work i havent lost a pound and feel like crap. i am exhausted from working nights and lack of sleep. i also have a migraine for the last two days.

thank you.

Stu I feel ya. I have had a lot of the same. No home problems but lots of work shit, and a teething baby to go along with it. I hate to hear shit is bad for my budday but I hope they get better. If you need to talk I am hear and will listen.

[Don Stugots]

thanks both of you. i have a tremendous support system, i really do. i hate to say it but GVAC words of taking pills sit in my head all the time. as much as taking them will pain me, it seems that it is my only option.

[Bossanova]

I'm prob. the worst person to say anything because I'm not married and I try not to take anything serious, but sadly sometimes pills aren't horrible to cope. My father ended up taking nerve medication and it has worked wonders. Even saved my parents marriage

[J.Clints]

I'm prob. the worst person to say anything because I'm not married and I try not to take anything serious, but sadly sometimes pills aren't horrible to cope. My father ended up taking nerve medication and it has worked wonders. Even saved my parents marriage

Sometime I have problems and I am on meds to help. I do not tell anyone this but its true. I keep things to my self.

[Bossanova]

Sometime I have problems and I am on meds to help. I do not tell anyone this but its true. I keep things to my self.

I honestly believe in the power of weed. I have been relaxed and worry free for a long time. As long as my mortgage is paid, I sweat nothing else. Work isn't worth it, my chick knows better, and everything else can suck it.

[J.Clints]

I honestly believe in the power of weed. I have been relaxed and worry free for a long time. As long as my mortgage is paid, I sweat nothing else. Work isn't worth it, my chick knows better, and everything else can suck it.

I dont have a way to get weed. if I did I would.

[Don Stugots]

I honestly believe in the power of weed. I have been relaxed and worry free for a long time. As long as my mortgage is paid, I sweat nothing else. Work isn't worth it, my chick knows better, and everything else can suck it.

weed is an option i am looking into before i take any pills. i am just waiting for someone to hook my up. i will not smoke it since i do like to inhale, but it will be in some brownies or something.

[Bossanova]

I dont have a way to get weed. if I did I would.

Thats the sadest thing I have ever heard :sad:

[Bossanova]

weed is an option i am looking into before i take any pills. i am just waiting for someone to hook my up. i will not smoke it since i do like to inhale, but it will be in some brownies or something.

Thats some great news. I would go that route first as well. Just go easy on the amount in the brownies please.

[J.Clints]

Thats the sadest thing I have ever heard :sad:

help a brother out

[Bossanova]

help a brother out

Man if trafficking via mail were legal, it would be a done deal

[Don Stugots]

Thats some great news. I would go that route first as well. Just go easy on the amount in the brownies please.

haha, regina will be the one making them. i have been told that next week i will have the stuff, unless someone else comes through faster.

[J.Clints]

Man if trafficking via mail were legal, it would be a done deal

ups dhl fedx

[Bossanova]

ups dhl fedx

Maybe if we used Amy as a middle man

[Bossanova]

haha, regina will be the one making them. i have been told that next week i will have the stuff, unless someone else comes through faster.

You could always use a vaporisor also

[Don Stugots]

You could always use a vaporisor also

how the hell would that work? pm me if need be. i like the sound of that already.

[Turtle]

Negativity is self perpetuating; the same can be said for positive thinking. Rather than obsessing over what went wrong, examine what you did well and build on that. Focusing on the positive needs to become a habit and it will then affect the rest of your life.

[Don Stugots]

Negativity is self perpetuating; the same can be said for positive thinking. Rather than obsessing over what went wrong, examine what you did well and build on that. Focusing on the positive needs to become a habit and it will then affect the rest of your life.

wise as he is handsome.

[Bossanova]

how the hell would that work? pm me if need be. i like the sound of that already.

Sorry its so long.

Why Cannabis Vaporization?

Vaporization is a technique for avoiding irritating respiratory toxins in marijuana smoke by heating cannabis to a temperature where the psychoactive ingredients evaporate without causing combustion.

Laboratory studies by California NORML and MAPS have found that vaporizers can efficiently deliver cannabinoids while eliminating or drastically reducing other smoke toxins.

Like tobacco, marijuana smoke contains toxins that are known to be hazardous to the respiratory system. Among them are the highly carcinogenic polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, a prime suspect in cigarette-related cancers. These toxins are essentially a byproduct of combustion, separate from the pharmaceutically active components of marijuana, known as cannabinoids, which include THC. Although there is no proof that marijuana smoking causes cancer, chronic pot smokers have been shown to suffer an elevated risk of bronchitis and respiratory infections. Respiratory disease due to smoking may therefore rightly be regarded as the primary physiological hazard of marijuana.

Cannabis vaporizers are designed to let users inhale active cannabinoids while avoiding harmful smoke toxins. They do so by heating cannabis to a temperature of 180 - 200° C (356° - 392° F), just below the point of combustion where smoke is produced. At this point, THC and other medically active cannabinoids are emitted with little or none of the carcinogenic tars and noxious gases found in smoke. Many medical marijuana patients who find smoked marijuana highly irritating report effective relief inhaling through vaporizers. Users who are concerned about the respiratory hazards of smoking are strongly advised to use vaporizers. Alternative devices, such as waterpipes, have been shown to be ineffective at reducing the tars in marijuana smoke (Report).

Many models of vaporizer are currently on the market. A review of the various types can be find at www.vaporinfo.com. Following is a list of some products currently advertised on the Internet:

Vaporizers available:

Volcano - State-of-the-art medical grade vaporizer from Germany tested by California NORML and MAPS, found to eliminate over 100 chemicals, delivering 95% pure cannabinoids in vapor. Unique collection system avoids wastage by collecting vapor in a balloon.
New high-tech handheld Model VM3 available from Chiro-tec, makers of M-1 Volatizer electric radiant heater that was tested in the first California NORML/MAPS study and found to completely eliminate benzene, toluene and naphtalene in the vapor.
The Vriptech - A popular design consisting of a hot air gun blowing into a bong
Vapolution.com - Vapolutionw/ car adapter
Vapman - Portable Swiss model works with butane lighter
Vaporlight - new design from Colorado
Herballoon - Based on design of Volcano, uses balloon to collect vapor.
Smoke-Right - "Ubie" glass tube holds sample, you heat it with a lighter - portable and inexpensive
HappyVappy - Compact streamlined design.
VaperWarez - Wooden chassis with tube insert.
The Vapie - Higher tech model from Portland, Oregon
Aromazap - Armotherapy convection-type oil diffuser.
The Vapouriser - Affordable British model heats cannabis in a closed chamber.
"Vapir" Air-2 Digital Air - with portable battery pack
Aromed - German system with automatic digital temperature control
Eterra - Wooden classic and new Tulip model (Emeryville CA)
Vapomizer - Inexpensive glass tube works with cigarette lighter
Pot Cooker - Inexpensive model
VaporTech - High Times award winner, Miami FL
Herbalizer - British Columbian model
MarijuanaVaporizer.com (Australian)
"The original" (Canadian)
The "Ultimate" Vaporizer - Air gun model
Hugegrins.com - Basic economical vaporizer

They sell them in the city or online

[Turtle]

wise as he is handsome.

ewwwwwww
(wavey hand smiley face happy thing)

Not to say that you should never address the probems in life...look at them as a chance to better yourself, not as pitfalls or shortcomings.

[Gvac]

It's sound advice Turtle, but as I've said in the past, trying to get someone whose brain isn't functioning properly to think properly is like trying to teach someone whose arm is in a sling how to pitch. You've got to heal the arm (and brain) first.

A doctor could easily prescribe something to level you off, and that's when you can begin thinking clearly.

Pills are a means to an end; NOT an end in themselves.

[Turtle]

It's sound advice Turtle, but as I've said in the past, trying to get someone whose brain isn't functioning properly to think properly is like trying to teach someone whose arm is in a sling how to pitch. You've got to heal the arm (and brain) first.

A doctor could easily prescribe something to level you off, and that's when you can begin thinking clearly.

Pills are a means to an end; NOT an end in themselves.

Mental illness is a tough thing for anyone suffering from to deal with and accept. You will get no argument from me with regards to attempting to correct chemical imbalance in the brain through the use of meds. But in people who do not have mental illness, I think it’s a matter of addressing how they look at life, perception is reality. Which is easier said than done.

[Bossanova]

It's sound advice Turtle, but as I've said in the past, trying to get someone whose brain isn't functioning properly to think properly is like trying to teach someone whose arm is in a sling how to pitch. You've got to heal the arm (and brain) first.

A doctor could easily prescribe something to level you off, and that's when you can begin thinking clearly.

Pills are a means to an end; NOT an end in themselves.

Spoken like a true short haired, loafer wearing, square. Just smoke drugs.
:smile:

[MadBiker]

Sometimes it helps just to know that there are other people out there, people you know, whether in person or not, that are going through the same stuff day in and day out.

DMM, you are right about the Power of Negative Thinking - it can be very powerful but only if you keep putting that out there. I think of something O&A played a few weeks ago, the D.L. Hughley clip on Leno re: "Nappy Headed H*s" - "it's not about what you're called, its what you answer to."

Negative thinking is powerful in the same way. It exists and it can grab us at anytime, but only if we answer its call. Stress is constant in our lives, and I think a healthy amount of it is what kicks in our instincts and our drive to survive. Overdone, as it is in our culture, and we become exhausted by our constant battles, large and small.

Community is a huge help, as is rest. There is a great community here on this board. I read here a lot but do not post much, though everytime I do I find lots of love. We forget sometimes that we do need someone to lean on now and then, and it cannot always be family or the same friends over and over, sometimes simply because we cannot share a particular issue with them. I sometimes find it kind of sad that there is a lack of connection between people, no communal investment in the health and well being of our planet's fellow inhabitants (animal and human) and no realization that it comes full circle, and that by helping our fellow man and respecting the life-cycle of other living things, we help ourselves and get payback when we need the help...you know what I mean. It sounds all hippy-dippy and touchy-feely but it really is true.

Get some rest if you can, and take a look at how you are eating. I went through a really, really rough patch a few years ago. I left a mentally abusive relationship, which was a good thing, but then I lost my job just a few months after I moved into a new apartment, lost my car to repossession, fought with my family constantly and became a borderline alcoholic - bottles of wine a day just to numb it all out. Things got better eventually, I got my drinking under control and found a job. I adopted a dog, and since he needed to go out rain or shine, so did I. I remembered suddenly that I LOVE being outside and LOVE the park and the woods. My dog and my bike both saved me, they really did. I cleaned up my diet (then let it slip a bit but under good stress not bad) and I saw major improvements. I was exercising, eating well, and sleeping well, which made me less stressed during the day and better able to cope with rough days.

I believe in a holistic approach to mental and physical health. I thought for a while that I would need antidepressants but just did not want to go that route. I know that AD's work for many people, my best friend has been on them for over 15 years and they work wonders for her, but it just did not seem to be right for me. It seemed less of a problem of a chronic chemical imbalance, which is what AD's are meant to correct. I just needed to get out of the funk I fell into, I guess.

Now, my dog is still a big help. I wake up and he is just there looking dumb and content and waiting for me to throw the ball for him, and somehow I have to be fine for his sake. I also keep my rooms decorated brightly - no flowers and lace all over, but a few bright towels in the bathroom, white curtains on the windows to let the light in, and bright prints on pillows and antemacassars help keeps me upbeat. Color can really affect your outlook.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I personally am not a big fan of medication. I think there is a tendency towards over-medication in this country. All life has it's highs and lows, sometimes the lows involve hitting bottom before you start going back up. Now, mental illness aside, it would probably be more useful to you if you were to use medication sparingly- whether it were weed, fire water, or plain old happy pills in a bottle prescribed by your friendly neighborhood doctor. I personally despise things like SSRIs (prozac) that stay in your bloodstream and take over two weeks to take full effect. If you need a fix, it should be temporary...you should not be on something that never leaves you body, unless you really, really need it. I'm sorry to say it but I don't think many doctors in this country are necessarily right automatically whenever they prescribe medication.

Amongst the people I've known and from personal use of them myself in the past, I can say that there are some people who need to take medication, and there are some people who get dragged further down by medication- they may not just be aware of it because the pills numb you out to the point of being oblivious and uncaring towards your own future, if you are not careful. I got suspended in 2001 because I was on too many pills to give a fuck about my future, and I didn't feel bad for anything I did- and you need to feel bad sometimes to get your ass in gear. For me it's either stress out to succeed or be complacent and suffer. I know it's not that way for everyone, or maybe not for anybody else for all I know. But that's how it works for me. I do take adderall for my ADHD, but I prefer the generic amphetamine salts because they leave your system within 4 or 5 hours. I doubt adderall would help you out as its a stimulant and most likely would only enhance your stress. I take it because I am barely functional without it, especially if I don't get much sleep.

The best judge of whether you should be on medication will be you in the end. If you are in absolutely dire straits... if you are thinking of hurting yourself, if you are having a series of irrational psychotic episodes, if you are having delusions or hearing voices, or thinking about hurting others constantly, then medication is definitely recommended. If not, then there probably is a way to slog through the pain on your own. I personally take sleeping pills at night when I'm particularly stressed out because they help act as a muscle relaxer. At least, Lorazapam does. But I try to limit how often I take it to about 3 pills every two to four weeks.

If I had access to weed, women, free love, and all that other good stuff... well the world would be a different place. Since I don't got those, I just try to stay au natural. Again, this is how I cope, and I don't know if that's best for you; but I know no other way, as the medication route failed for me personally and I shant be taking any more meds for depression, 'lest I need them.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Ugh, I wrote alot more on meds than I wanted to. Now on to the meat 'n' bones of what I want to say to both Moe and Stu.

Think of the mind as an ocean. Think of thoughts and emotions as objects that you continually drop into the water. Some sink to the bottom, others float to the top. For me, negative thoughts and feelings have more buoyancy than positive thoughts/feelings. Happiness seems to exist only in memory but I'm never aware of it when I'm actually happy and content. Does this mean I can never be happy and know it? Absolutely not. It takes effort and willpower sometimes (all the time for me), but one can dive down and raise whatever positive thought or feeling you're looking for and help it gain newfound buoyancy so it may float closer to the surface than it had before. It is my nature, and I am sure this is true of many people, to notice bad things more than I notice the good things in the world- and that is why you must train yourself to appreciate certain things more and more.

Me personally, I try to take time off to realize where I live, what goes on in the world, and how much all my bullshit sometimes matters but doesn't really matter. I achieve this by taking a long walk, a bike ride, or just randomly getting to know someone (at least, this works in places outside the Tri-State Area). I think about how impossible a situation feels, and realize it's never impossible...and that I am not always powerless in every situation there is. I have something of an existentialist point of view in that I believe we can become whatever we wish to be, within reasonable confines... as one's nature can change only so much, but every small step feels like a great hurdle to overcome. Sorry if I'm sounding too much like Tony Fucking Robbins.

A great equalizer is doing what Fat_Sunny suggested. Exercise, achieving goals that are not unreasonable on both an everyday and monthly scale. For me, I promised myself I would better take care of myself when I had several bad run-ins with the doctor in January regarding my health. All the nutritionists and nutrition websites said I needed to exercise 5 days a week for 30 mins at a clip. That was my original goal, and I went a whole month failing to exercise. Someone suggested I make the number of times to go to the gym a week smaller and more realistic, and so I set my goals to going there twice or once a week. Know what happened? I went to the gym, and I kept it up for months. I went from 214lbs to my current 188lbs, and I feel great for doing it. I know if I hadn't tweaked my standards a bit, I probably would be approaching 230lbs and diabetes by now. Ever since we've had nice weather, I barely go to the gym at all- but I exercise still by riding my bike through a local park that has a bike trail. At the end of the trail there is a dog park and I hang out and goof around a bit with some dogs. I find it very soothing and rewarding. So you can always make your activities malleable and play by ear.

Some people might need to have a sense of direction...the best thing to do is to lay out plans and actually go through with them, rather than ponder ineffectively in a thousand different circles. The plans don't need to be anything special...it could range from 'I'm gonna take my girl out to the beach on this day' to 'I'm gonna go to Egypt and see this and that' to 'I want to achieve this with my weight, job, life, loved ones, etc. by this month', so on.

[Mike Teacher]

The anti-chemotherapy stands are all good, seems like many of us out there speak from some experience, but like many have said many are prescribed them who dont need them. Sadly, this is balanced out by the people who need them and don't get them. So, two camps exist, imho.

Yes, the SSRIs have many side-effects and yes the other families of anti-depressants do too, and yes, a holistic method would always be preferred over stronger courses of action. Having said that; there are people around who make the depression most of us experience seem like a walk in the park. I mean the depressed that don't leave rooms. Ever. The ones that are so depressed they weep out loud every waking moment. The ones who fight to kill themselves. To horrifically injure themselves. Mental illness has depths that most of us can't even imagine.

Shock therapy sounds cruel, until you see the patient who has been weeping uncontrollably every waking moment, not weep for the first time. This is transfomative.

As bad as the stuff we use today is, Wow the stuff we used to use, just friggin medieval.

Holy shit what a rant. I'm staring at the keyboard as I type this trying to remember the thread title and I cant. Wow do I suck.

[Gvac]

Excellent points raised by both CCC and Mike. I fully understand the objection most people have to taking meds for mental problems.

I just wonder why they have no problem taking an aspirin for a headache or a Sudafed for a stuffed nose.

I also wonder how they believe they can think their way out of depression with a mind that's too broken to think.

[Don Stugots]

Excellent points raised by both CCC and Mike. I fully understand the objection most people have to taking meds for mental problems.

I just wonder why they have no problem taking an aspirin for a headache or a Sudafed for a stuffed nose.

I also wonder how they believe they can think their way out of depression with a mind that's too broken to think.

i try not to take aspirin for anything, including the migraine i have for two days. I am open to holistic methods as well as acupuncture. new insurance went into effect last week and cards will be here anyday now, once they are in hand, i will be trying non medication forms of treatment.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Trephaning, I probably misspelled that...that was some gnarly ancient shit right there that we're way better off not having. Lobotomies too, glad those aren't around.

I fully agree with what Mike is saying here. Andrea Yates, for instance, absolutely needed to remain on medication full time. If she had, perhaps her children would still be alive. Those who do not leave their houses or suffer such powerful emotional shockwaves of terror, grief, heartbreak, and so on, they should be on medication. Anyone with bi-polar disorder would absolutely benefit from being on lithium and depakote full time. One of my best friends is bi-polar, and when he is not on medication he cannot hold a job and is generally unbearable to be around- it wasn't until he slit his wrists that people decided to put him on medication, and trust me, he's much better off personally for himself as well as for others. There are a myriad other situations where medications, including SSRIs, are very necessary. There are many more situations where those same SSRIs are preferable for a person's well-being both financially, physically, and emotionally, but I can only ramble on so much about it.

But then one poses the question, what if we had prozac in 1750 and the very depressed John Adams had been on it for years? How different would Jefferson had been if he had been on it? Would the Declaration of Independence even have been written? These questions are both futile and essential to figuring out why the human brain works the way it does. Futile because obviously we cannot ever know and "What If?..." scenarios are generally mired by conjecture and hazy hypothesis. Essential because one cannot generalize the human beast and say that a common symptom requires a blanket solution, i.e. if someone is depressed they should be put on prozac. That is as fallible as saying that Freud applies to all psychology and all psychology patients ought be rated based upon Freud's findings- keep in mind that Freud got all his work from case studies and never from statistical surveys and large groups of people at once.

I view prescription drug use as very useful potentially but also as something that, if we lower our vigilance to self-destructive indulgent behavior, could very much hinder us. Not all people who are depressed benefit ultimately from medication...and if you can weather the storm, you CAN walk away from the wreck feeling stronger than ever. Conversely, you could always get paralyzed by the crash. And if one intends to only be on meds temporarily, that is great, but keep in mind there is the 'rebound' effect to be wary of. That is where depression and all its symptoms comes flooding back with a vengeance once something like an SSRI or in my case a stimulant leaves the bloodstream. This is a temporary pain, a temporary hurt, and you can wean yourself off of whatever it is your body cries out for.

And do not mistake my words, for there is no shame in taking meds for depression. It is just important, for me personally, and again, just me personally, this does not apply to all, to be certain of why you are taking the meds and how long you intend to take them, and to be wary of your limits at all times. A Herculean task, but if it is even 50% achieved, that is more than most people in this world do.

[Mike Teacher]

deleted.

500 word post, and no way im posting a rant that long and rambling.

Live right and dont let shit bug you. The power of these two cant be underestimated, cant be easier to understand, and cant be more difficult to put into actual practice.

done.

[Don Stugots]

deleted.

500 word post, and no way im posting a rant that long and rambling.

Live right and dont let shit bug you. The power of these two cant be underestimated, cant be easier to understand, and cant be more difficult to put into actual practice.

done.

pure genius. thanks for posting that.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Excellent points raised by both CCC and Mike. I fully understand the objection most people have to taking meds for mental problems.

I just wonder why they have no problem taking an aspirin for a headache or a Sudafed for a stuffed nose.

I also wonder how they believe they can think their way out of depression with a mind that's too broken to think.

I believe in the sudafed and stimulant approach because within 24 hours you are yourself again. The full moon is gone, it is time to attend to your regular human activities. A 24/7 werewolf state is not my preference. I know that's a misleading analogy (whoever heard of relaxed, numbed out werewolves?), but I already wrote it up, damn it.

I love your last sentence there because it's very true and rather poignant. If a person is depressed to the point where they are not functional, whether it be functional in a job sense, a family sense, a human sense, a personal sense, emotional, so on, then it is a situation that deems a need for change- and medication often helps that change take place.

I suppose my point is, drugs should not be used as the end of a means, but rather as a (hopefully temporary) means to an end. As was already said by another person who can get to the point much faster than I seem to be able to.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

deleted.

500 word post, and no way im posting a rant that long and rambling.

Live right and dont let shit bug you. The power of these two cant be underestimated, cant be easier to understand, and cant be more difficult to put into actual practice.

done.

Damn straight. The two mottos I stand by are "Know Thyself" and "In Moderation". Damned if what Mike says don't apply to those sayings either.

[Mike Teacher]

Stugots thanks but in terns of 'practice what you preach' im a friggin retard.

All of this is so much easier said then done. OK lemme try to be brief. Ha!

For me 'Happy' left a long time ago, it's just different degrees of contentment now. I have a weird lookout now: It's all suffering, it's all crap, so why not choose the crap, control the crap you can, and not concern yourself with crap you have utterly no control over.

'Live Right' means I also gave up on ever being pleased with This body. Ever. But Five years ago I drank a lot, had a lot of meds, and weighed 360+ and said bye to all of it. Hard?

Slow.

Torture.

Three.

Years.

I wish I was kidding, but to give up all booze and diet heavily simultaneously was insane. Looking back, I have no idea how I did it. I do know I became such an inufferable prick my wife moved out. But I got things under control, so while I loathe my body, I loathe it al lot less. 360 = miserable. I dont wanna be preachy but no one who is obese is happy. no one. no.

So; real easy to say 'yeah just give up booze and the food you like for God knows how long' and another to do it. And I still do it. It really sucks; it's boring; it hate being at Bar 9 and ordering another fucking Coke. But I was so much more miserable before, so so so much more...

'Dont let Shit Bug Ya' is the part we cant contro part. Ever have someone cut you off and laugh about it? Wow it's amazing. So is flying into a rage; following the car inches from its tail for miles as you curse it all; and scream shit as you make sure the finger you gibe is seen by all and sundry. Both are amazing; but one is actually really fucking stupid, futile and not only non-productive, but downright dangerous on many levels. That someone hasnt beat the shit out of me or shown up at my door with Police in tow is beyond me.

Again, while it may be real tough to let the shit thrown at us slide off; the alternative is really much worse, but again, easier said then done.

=

At least those who post here take a first step that many never ever do. How many of us know the person who is miserable, and completely and utterly unaware of it; living in some pollyanna bullshit cocoon lie? Wow those fuckers to me are the True Freaks.

Whoa!

[Don Stugots]

i gave up on road rage a few years ago. i realized how lame it was. Beer and booze? friday will be 4 weeks. i miss it, but i know it is for the best. being hungover or bloated for 5 days sucked. Same for being cranky to everyone for 2 days, if it was just beer. Food? i am always watching what i eat but feel miserable the whole time. I have given up on eating the foods i enjoy. I do not know moderation when it comes to what i enjoy in life.

i have lots more to say but then i would be rambling. thats it for now.


i do agree about the true freaks.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Yeah, the crazy shit is that we rarely practice what we say we should do. I had to reduce alot of my original goals to nubs of what they were supposed to be in order to feel good about doing them. The only reason I bring 'em up is because they actually wrought a change, even tho i thought they wouldn't barely scratch the surface.

Happiness to me is a strange mental disorder. To quote Carlin, "We had to put Dave away today...he was...woahhhh....More Than Happy!" Contentment is pretty much what I shoot for. Don't make ya a bad person.

Moderation and knowing yourself are two of the hardest things to achieve and maintain in human existence- and for all intents and purposes, impossible as such.

Apologies for my huge posts and if I rambled to the point where the efficacy of what I was saying was blunted as a result. I'm too wordy.

Agreed on the freaks as well. I can't stand those fucking Martians.

[trig]

Man....The thought of not having access to pot scares the shit out of me. I'm sorry those unfortunate... I've been smoking frequently and for a long time, but I found out recently that if I smoke when I'm depressed it actually makes me feel way worse. Exersise seems to be the only thing that truly gets me out of a funk. Then I spark one :happy: