Micheal Moore's Sicko Trailer

[HBox]

See trailer here. (http://us.video.aol.com/player/launcher?ar=us_en_video_748x541_full&mid=26778&mode=0&pmmsid=1911879)

On the one hand I like that attention is being called to the health care crisis in this country. On the other hand I wish it wasn't Moore doing this. It's a double edged sword. He's the only guy who can make a documentary that will get this much attention but it doesn't matter if he puts together a perfectly sourced 100% accurate doc out there. It will still polarize the issue. Tons of people will see Michael Moore and health care and just take the polar opposite position automatically.

The trailer is a good first start though. I didn't notice anything misleading so far. In fact I've experienced one problem similar to what was in the trailer (the ambulance thing). A big problem is that there are likely to be some outlandish things in the movie that will seem hard to believe but are 100% true because that's just how fucked up the system is.

[ShowerBench]

I agree that with Moore leading the charge there is a risk of kneejerk rejection of some of the information he includes or policies he promotes. On the other hand, there is also the possibility that the health care crisis has reached critical mass, so attempts to trash the documentary because it was created by Moore will fail.

Moore could even end up being embraced by the mainstream, depending on how well put-together this doc is. From what I hear, it's more sophisticated than the last one so will be harder to criticize on the basis of gimmickry or demagoguery.

[J.Clints]

I am not a fan of his work But I will go see it. I wish he would do a film on gas prices.

[Midkiff]

good shit

we need socialized health care

[epo]

Those health insurance companies are real sombitches. I'll be interested to see how Moore tells the story.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

good shit

we need socialized health care

It probably wont happen. We all know of big oil. Well Big Pharmaceutical companies have alot of lobbying power in DC and are very influential.

[Gvac]

Michael Moore has serious mental problems.

I honestly believe that. He's not playing with a full deck.

I also don't agree with those who would like to see socialized medicine. I'd rather see less government in our lives, not more.

If we weren't taxed to death we'd all be able to afford health insurance.

[HBox]

Michael Moore has serious mental problems.

I honestly believe that. He's not playing with a full deck.

I also don't agree with those who would like to see socialized medicine. I'd rather see less government in our lives, not more.

If we weren't taxed to death we'd all be able to afford health insurance.

The government provides the best and most efficient health care and insurance in this country. The administrative costs of Medicare and Medicaid are far lower than any private insurance company. And the VA provides the best, most advanced care in the country. (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1376238,00.html)

And for the people who already don't have health insurance, with very few exceptions, they could take every single penny they pay in taxes and still not have enough to buy a private insurance policy. That's how crazily expensive health care has become in this country. And there's shit loads of reasons. I'd say that the private insurance system itself, causing inefficiency at every single level and ultimately concerned with profit and not patient's health, is the biggest cause. Others would disagree. It seems like Sicko is going to be more of a call to action, showing the effects and not examining the causes.

Whatever you think, something major needs to be done. We spend obscene amounts of money, more than twice than the next closest country for inferior care that doesn't cover 40+ million people.

[epo]

The government provides the best and most efficient health care and insurance in this country. The administrative costs of Medicare and Medicaid are far lower than any private insurance company. And the VA provides the best, most advanced care in the country. (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1376238,00.html)



I would like to point out that while Medicare & Medicaid while both having very low administrative costs, neither reimburses the provider system enough for them to break even on those patients. So essentially, you the privately insured are helping to pay for those on government insurance.

[docgoblin]

I actually like what Moore does at the core, allthough I'm pretty much a conservative-leaning centrist. Roger and Me was a great film. His TV show was not bad either. He started to play with the facts a bit in Bowling for Columbine and he outright distorted the truth in Farenheit 9/11. Having said that, he still brings very important issues to the forefront. The healthcare system in this country is a disaster. The insurance companies are bleeding us dry. It's only a matter of time before the financial infrastructure of the middle class collapses due to rediculous outstanding debt, much of it due to unpaid medical bills. We are headed for a monetary disaster in this country if someone doesn't fix these things quickly. I applaude Michael Moore for finally bringing this issue to light. Next, he should go after gas prices, then he should look into the mortgage scams that are killing the housing market.

[Snacks]

Michael Moore is an excellent film maker. You either love him or hate him, thats just how it is. I like him and hopfully after this movie comes out some people will change their mind about him. When people talk about moore its uasually liberals vs. conservatives. But this is more of a middle class and lower class issue (majority of Americans ) vs rich and health insurance, pharmasuetil compnaies. so this may be what gets people to agree on something for once.

[jfragons]

I hate our current health care system...

I use to worry when I didn't have health benefits... But now I understand what a racket it is. Every visit to the doctor leads to a call to my provider asking why the bill was sent back for me to pay. They never want to pay for anything and I don't ever really know what I am covered for.. I pay $350/month for this "service"... I'm being serviced alright...

Its a broken system... I pay more now that I have "health coverage"

[Midkiff]

The government provides the best and most efficient health care and insurance in this country. The administrative costs of Medicare and Medicaid are far lower than any private insurance company. And the VA provides the best, most advanced care in the country. (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1376238,00.html)


Hold on bro, I can't let that one slip. The VA fuckin sucks. As a disabled vet who gets all my healthcare from the VA, I actually know a thing or two about that.

I've been with the VA for five years, and have yet to even get a proper DIAGNOSIS for my friggin disability. Appointments take MONTHS to come, and sometimes you hear six months later that they can't even see you for that scheduled appointment.

And Medicare/caid have unrealistic income requirements.

[Snacks]

Hold on bro, I can't let that one slip. The VA fuckin sucks. As a disabled vet who gets all my healthcare from the VA, I actually know a thing or two about that.

I've been with the VA for five years, and have yet to even get a proper DIAGNOSIS for my friggin disability. Appointments take MONTHS to come, and sometimes you hear six months later that they can't even see you for that scheduled appointment.

And Medicare/caid have unrealistic income requirements.

What are you suffering from? Is it a mental thing or is something physically wrong?

As for the VA being good. I will disagree with you about the VA. My grandfather was taken care of for 30 -40 years. Everytime he was sick, we would go right to the VA and no matter what he was well cared for. When he had cancer they found it early enough and he lived another 15 years cancer free and healthy.

I think it may depned on what your problem is and or your local VA hospital.

[Midkiff]

What are you suffering from? Is it a mental thing or is something physically wrong?

As for the VA being good. I will disagree with you about the VA. My grandfather was taken care of for 30 -40 years. Everytime he was sick, we would go right to the VA and no matter what he was well cared for. When he had cancer they found it early enough and he lived another 15 years cancer free and healthy.

I think it may depned on what your problem is and or your local VA hospital.

A little physical, mostly neurological (NOT mental!). I will say that IF you get in, the care is OK usually. However, say for example, you wait several months for an appointment, then your doctor calls in sick they day you arrive... you're out of luck. They don't get you to another doctor. You wait MORE MONTHS. Otherwise, you go to the emergency room at the VA hospital, which will be an all-day affair at LEAST. Then they bum-rush you through with a med or two and make a months'later appointment for you.

[HBox]

Otherwise, you go to the emergency room at the VA hospital, which will be an all-day affair at LEAST. Then they bum-rush you through with a med or two and make a months'later appointment for you.

That part of the equation plays exactly the same outside the VA.

[Midkiff]

That part of the equation plays exactly the same outside the VA.

Oh... in that case, hooray socialized medicine! :lol:

[HBox]

Well hopefully these access problems will improve. The latest military funding bill included more money than they were asking for as far as veteran's care goes. Hopefully they can put the money to good use in solving those problems.

[Midkiff]

Well hopefully these access problems will improve. The latest military funding bill included more money than they were asking for as far as veteran's care goes. Hopefully they can put the money to good use in solving those problems.

Yeah, hopefully. It would be nice to see my doctor. I forgot what he looks like.

I don't think I'll be able to get VA care when I move out of the country, but thankfully it's a country with socialized medicine. Then I'll be able to tell you first-hand how it compares!

[keithy_19]

As stated by someone earlier, I am not a fan of Micheal Moore. With that being expressed, however, I would like to see this and I hope it is a very well done documentary that doesn't involve much (if any) politics.

[HBox]

I would like to point out that while Medicare & Medicaid while both having very low administrative costs, neither reimburses the provider system enough for them to break even on those patients. So essentially, you the privately insured are helping to pay for those on government insurance.

In the impossible situation where everyone got their health care through Medicare/Medicaid they could just up the payments to completely reimburse doctors. It wouldn't change the fact that Medicare/Medicaid is run much more efficiently than private insurers with a lot less money going to non-medical related expenses.

I'd like to ask everybody if they've noticed what I've noticed: When I was a kid and I went to the doctor there were one or two people behind the front desk for appointments and payments and stuff. Last time I went to the doctor there were no less than 5 people behind the desk. And they have a separate office on top of that just for billing! All these people needed for all this redundant paperwork just so the doctor can get a payment out of insurance companies and, failing that, hounding sick people for money. None of these people doing anything that helps treat you. But all getting paid. It's ridiculous.

There's so many things wrong with the health care system. We are wasting money in so many ways it's scary. And most of it has to do with the inefficiencies enforced on the system by private insurers for their own benefit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Im going to wait until it comes out on DVD. Who really wants to go to the movies and see something like this? When I go to the movies I want to get away from current events for a couple of hours

[nikoloslvy666]

ronald reagan on documentries made in cuba.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bfRO98rkB4

[epo]

ronald reagan on documentries made in cuba.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bfRO98rkB4

Irrelevant.

[epo]

Fox News called Sicko "brilliant & uplifting". I think hell just froze over.

Link to story here. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273875,00.html)

[nikoloslvy666]

Irrelevant. its irrelevant that he went over to cuba and tried to make it look like their system is better then ours? did he not go to cuba and shoot a documentary?

[Yerdaddy]

Fox News called Sicko "brilliant & uplifting". I think hell just froze over.

Link to story here. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273875,00.html)

Don't you go worrying your pretty little head about Jerry Falwell catching cold down there. The hard news section of Fox is the "Mission Accomplished" banner of the network. Hannity and O'Rielly will be calling Moore a communist and a traitor for it for the next six months.

I remember buying my first Almanac years ago and thumbing through it for hours at a time for months and I was shocked when I noticed that in western hemisphere country health indicators it was a virtual tie at the top between Canada, the U.S. and Cuba. It should be a national disgrace, if this country was capable of shame, that this piss-ant communist country could take as good or better care of its people's health than the richest nation on earth. But it does. It's gone downhill a bit since the fall of the Soviet Union, but it's still doing better than any other Latin American country that's had heavy U.S. involvement in its politics and economics.

[Midkiff]

he went over to cuba and tried to make it look like their system is better then ours?

It is. That's why so many countries have adopted socialized medicine.

[Furtherman]

its irrelevant that he went over to cuba and tried to make it look like their system is better then ours? did he not go to cuba and shoot a documentary?

Their system IS better than ours.

He shot a scene for his documentary, not the whole film.

[crb1]

its irrelevant that he went over to cuba and tried to make it look like their system is better then ours? did he not go to cuba and shoot a documentary?

That's an inaccurate statement that has come up continually with regard to this film.

He did NOT go to mainland Cuba. He went to Gitmo to get 9/11 rescue workers the same medical treatment (which is superior to that of the the rescue workers) that the detainees at the base receive. It had nothing to do with Cubans, or the Cuban health care system at all.

[Jujubees2]

That's an inaccurate statement that has come up continually with regard to this film.

He did NOT go to mainland Cuba. He went to Gitmo to get 9/11 rescue workers the same medical treatment (which is superior to that of the the rescue workers) that the detainees at the base receive. It had nothing to do with Cubans, or the Cuban health care system at all.

He did go to Gitmo first to get treatment but they were denied so he headed up to Havana. Still, the U.S. government wants to make a big deal out of him going to Cuba so that we won't really talk about the main point of the documentary, which is that in the richest country in the world, over 45 million people do not have health insurance.

[crb1]

He did go to Gitmo first to get treatment but they were denied so he headed up to Havana. Still, the U.S. government wants to make a big deal out of him going to Cuba so that we won't really talk about the main point of the documentary, which is that in the richest country in the world, over 45 million people do not have health insurance.

Then what I said was an inaccurate statement. Ooops...

Ultimately, the Cuba part of this documentary is not the main point. And I agree with the earlier poster that said Moore isn't the best person to make this film because he's so polarizing.

[AKA]

its irrelevant that he went over to cuba and tried to make it look like their system is better then ours? did he not go to cuba and shoot a documentary?

Do you even know what a documentary is?

documentary: a film or TV program presenting the facts about a person or event

Documentary film is a broad category of cinematic expression united by the intent to remain factual or non-fictional.

Regardless of what his critics say, it's not Michael Moore's job to tell all sides to all stories - there are brilliant documentaries that do attempt that, but even they have a point of view that's controlled by the editor or director or the even the information that they have access to. Most docs out these days are advocacy films that just present one side - some (like Robert Greenwald) rarely or never show that there is even another side.

That is an awesome trailer. What a great time and a great subject.

Like a lot, I have my issues with Michael Moore and some of his films. He has been most on target with his last two films when he has zeroed in on the American Media and what makes our culture tick. He really is a gifted filmmaker who has done a lot in helping making documentary films accessible to a wider audience. More than ever, docs have become the true bastion of indie/underground filmmakers.

[HBox]

I don't think Cuba has a better health system than us. They have a system that's far equitable than ours and they do an amazing job with the amount of resources they have where we are burning money on nonsense. But if I were sick and had access to the US system I'd much rather be here.

[HBox]

An act of charity or publicity stunt? (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113385/site/newsweek/)

I say a charitable publicity stunt.

[Midkiff]

An act of charity or publicity stunt? (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113385/site/newsweek/)

I say a charitable publicity stunt.

cool

[Bulldogcakes]

I don't think Cuba has a better health system than us. They have a system that's far equitable than ours and they do an amazing job with the amount of resources they have where we are burning money on nonsense. But if I were sick and had access to the US system I'd much rather be here.

Its a Communist country for crying out loud. You can't believe ANYTHING the Cuban Government says about its system. Who is doing the "independent" verification? Nobody, except self appointed experts like Mr Moore, and I've yet to see his medical degree. I believe what they say about as much as I believed "Pravda" from the old Soviet Union. It wasn't until the Soviet Union collapsed that people found out how bad things REALLY were.

Same goes for their highly touted education system and literacy rates. Who knows what the actual literacy rates are, Fidel can publish whatever # he wants. I dont see them producing the great minds of our day, whereas its commonplace here and we are a magnet for talented people from all over the globe.

Ask anyone who's ever been to Cuba. When people travel to Cuba, if you have a medical condition they (the country of origin, usually Canada from the people I know) tell you to bring your own medications. Because you cant get any down there. Even if its something as simple as aspirin, you are told to bring your own supply.

[prothunderball]

I don't really have anything to add to this thread that hasn't already been said, but anyone who thinks that the way to solve our health care problems is to simply lower taxes isn't making a lot sense. The people that can't afford health care are in the lower class and really aren't taxed all that much, and you'd pretty much have to stop taxing them completely to give them the 100-200 dollars a month they'd need to afford health insurance, let alone the numerous other things that the middle and upper classes take for granted.

In a perfect world I would love to see socialized medicine in this country, but the cynical side of me is really scared of it, simply because I've seen how corrupt and poorly run most government programs are run here and I don't know if I'd trust our government to handle something as important as health care.

all that being said, I have no answers, and really add nothing, just felt the need to chime in.

[xample]

All this is going to be is more money in Moore's pocket. I do have to say though, the editing behind his interviews is tremendous.

I saw Bowling for Columbine in the theatre (thankfully I didn't pay for it) and I watched 200 jackasses give the damn thing a standing ovation. People are so blinded by him. I'm not saying that he isn't giving you at least some factual information, but the masses need to learn how to think for themselves.

Don't take everything at face value, especially from Mikey Moore.

[sailor]

with regard to cuba, and i'm no expert...mostly talking out of my ass here, but aren't they overall not in a good place? if their medical system is doing well, wouldn't it just show a forced emphasis in this area more than it actually shows their system is good?


i have a thought here, but i'm having some difficulty getting my point across. sorry. :(

[prothunderball]

with regard to cuba, and i'm no expert...mostly talking out of my ass here, but aren't they overall not in a good place? if their medical system is doing well, wouldn't it just show a forced emphasis in this area more than it actually shows their system is good?


i have a thought here, but i'm having some difficulty getting my point across. sorry. :(

I think I get what you're saying. If it is true that they do have good health care, it's probably just because everything else in their country is so screwed up and this is the one area that they focus on. Is that what you meant?

If it is I think that's probably true, I've done a little reading on Cuba and health care and sports are pretty much where they put a lot of they're resources.

[sailor]

I think I get what you're saying. If it is true that they do have good health care, it's probably just because everything else in their country is so screwed up and this is the one area that they focus on. Is that what you meant?

If it is I think that's probably true, I've done a little reading on Cuba and health care and sports are pretty much where they put a lot of they're resources.

yeah, that pretty much sums it up. thanks! :)