Really Aggravated, Frustrating Situation

[grlNIN]

So, as some of you may or may not know, I've been in a relationship for coming up on a year. My boyfriend and i live together and are basically best friends. We've known each other for over a year before we started dating and worked together up until last month when i left that job.

Now, for the last 2 or 3 months his ex-girlfriend from High school has been randomly sending him Myspace messages. I've seen one and she sent one last night that he told me about when i got in. They are to the tune of "I just dont want things to end like this, i still want to be friends, etc. etc."

Keep in mind that the two of us are both 22 and she is 23. They dated for 2 years in High school and he ended it when she cheated on him with his bandmate. He tried to be her friend after they had broken up but she took the typical chick route and went psycho(which includes but is not limited to: ruining several of his relationships in the process, standing in his backyard at 2am with an "I heart such and such" sign, driving by his house to check if his car was there, following him home from college, filling his voicemails, sending him myspace messages & going to the place we both worked at to watch him).

I had asked why he didnt get a restraining order and he says looking back on it now he knows he should have but there's no way to do that now because he really has no justification.

So after he tells me about the message last night i get really pissed. It has surpassed the insecurity or jealousy factor because ive seen this girl and she is busted. Im not one to toot my own horn but i can recognize Medusa when i see her.

I told him that now it's becoming territorial, i dont want this girl thinking she can do this shit and get away with it. The first time it happened my friends told me to not give her the satisfaction of an email, that that is what she wants to see, that i am aware of her and that she gets under my skin.

Im wondering if i should follow that same advice or send an email explaining various points of why she shouldnt contact him again in a very adult manner concluded with "or i will beat your ass".

[Doogie]

I dont know this person, but it sounds like she needs to seek some serious help. But I think you are right in saying that responding to this chick with an aggravated sort of response would just make her happy. She is obviously a very miserable person whose only joy in life is to spread more misery. The best thing you need to do is let your boyfriend know that it upsets you that this is going on, and you are in his life now and not this broad. I'm sure that you have done that already and am stating it to be redundant. I say exercise some restraint when it comes to retaliation against her, and go with the diplomatic route for now. But you should seriously consider a restraining order because she is disrupting your life, in her attempt to contact your boyfriend.

[A.J.]

...Myspace messages. I've seen one and she sent one last night that he told me about when i got in. They are to the tune of "I just dont want things to end like this, i still want to be friends, etc. etc.".

When are people going to learn that this "still being friends" shit after breaking up is so utterly pointless? High school ended 4 years ago. Have your boyfriend tell this bitch to grow up and move on.

[grlNIN]

He's tried every venue to make her understand that he wants nothing to do with her and never will again. Now he has no choice but to ignore her because it's all he can do.

Even that doesn't work.

[Death Metal Moe]

http://www.eskimo.com/~mikeg/S2000/brake_hoses/no_brake_line.jpg

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http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/stanley-fatmax-hacksaw.jpg

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http://www.bant-shirts.com/images/photos/freedom-ringer-340.jpg

[JPMNICK]

i would send her a nice myspace message saying that your BF and you live together, and out of respect for the relationship you do not think she should continue to contact him, esp. in the manner than she has been. making threats is a really bad idea, especially in writing

[King Hippos Bandaid]

If she diddnt infuriate your BF Id say Help find another Obsession for that Nutzoid. This is a Tuff one, you cant threaten in writing because she can turn the tables and cause trouble for you legally. He can drop her as a Friend on Myspace and Block Her, but she would probably make a new account and continue to annoy.


:king:

[cupcakelove]

I would not get involved. It sounds like your boyfriend wants nothing to do with her, and the last thing he probably wants to deal with is you getting upset. Just support him with whatever he decides to do about it. There's no reason to add unnecessary stress to both your lives. Don't let her mess up your relationship too.

[grlNIN]

Well, as much as i'd like to, i wouldn't put a threat in writing.

Both our profiles are private and she's blocked so she cant send messages now. I still feel like she's going to find a way to get in touch with him and it's really unnerving that someone is intruding with mine and my boyfriend's lives.

A part of me feels seriously bad that someone is such a loser to hang on to a relationship they ruined after 5 years and not be able to move on but the other half of me doesn't want her to think that she can affect what we've worked so hard for presently.

[angrymissy]

I'm immature.

I would send the message telling her to back the fuck off. I would feel like, she knows I am with him, so she's fucking with me indirectly. That would piss me off.

Then again, I am crazy.

[JPMNICK]

in the end, you are the one who lives with him, so you win. end of story. myspace messages are not a real threat, unless he takes it to the next level. as long as you trust him, nothing else is happening.

[grlNIN]

Nope.

I feel the same way. She is fucking with me via him and he doesn't realize it.

[Death Metal Moe]

I think it's important you get word to her that you know what she's doing, you don't like it and she and your guy aren't getting back together, even if you weren't in the picture.

If you don't say what you want to her, you're just going to sit around and think to yourself "I really should have told that cunt off when I had the chance." It will run through your head everytime her name comes up.

Tell her exactly what you think. That way there is ZERO question in her mind and you feel better about it.

[FUNKMAN]

Ignore Her and her messages! Don't read them and just delete them. Can he block her out from getting her message?. She'll welcome any kind of contact, negative or positive.

It takes alot of patience but be happy in the fact it will be what pisses her off most...

[King Hippos Bandaid]

in the end, you are the one who lives with him, so you win. end of story. myspace messages are not a real threat, unless he takes it to the next level. as long as you trust him, nothing else is happening.


myspace is a gateway stalking drug

it only leads to phsyical stalking , if they live close to the stalkee

I was always too lazy to stalk(even the hot cheerleader neighbor I had growing up), stalking takes a serious commitment.

:king:


:king:

[cupcakelove]

You have to power to decide how much this is going to affect you. If she really is just trying to fuck with you, then contacting her will confirm she has succeeded in doing exactly what she wants, and will let her know that even though she is not with your boyfriend anymore, she still has the ability to affect his life. I think just letting your boy friend handle it is the best course.

[grlNIN]

Ugh.

I don't want reason! I mean yeah, i should be the bigger person and not let this get to me as it is, exactly what she wants.

I want to put it out there as it was said before, we're living together and this is a pretty serious relationship that you have no chance of destroying but i dont want to tempt her psychotic ass into doing something beyond a few crazy emails.

I'm not sure if giving her more information than she needs to know is a good thing.

[Crispy123]

When I first started dating the chick who is now my wife, I had several "friends" that I hung out with on various days of the week. I wasn't into anything serious until my chick came along. After dating her for awhile I let these other chicks know I was into this one and we wouldn't be hanging out any more. Well one of these didn't get the message and kept calling me. Finally my chick had enough and called this one back and let her know in no uncertain terms that if she called me again she would not be able to talk on the phone much less dial one for a very long time. Was it borderline psycho? Yes, but oddly hot and now we are married.

[Death Metal Moe]

I guess I see the point about giving this chick any attention is exactly what she wants. But I've always been of the opinion that letting people know exactly what you think is the best bet, for better or worse.

Don't E-mail her, call her. If she hangs up, E-mail her.

[FUNKMAN]

send her pictures of you guys in some really kinky sexual positions right in front of a picture of her and you're both shooting her the bird or giving her picture a golden shower


i'm just kiddin, just trying to keep it lite...

[Furtherman]

How about deleting the myspace page?

Get new email addresses.

Cut off the flow to where she can get in touch.

[grlNIN]

It's been FIVE YEARS.

He doesn't have her phone number, he didnt even have Myspace up until like September, so now this is the avenue she is pursuing.

I wish she would die.

[cupcakelove]

It's been FIVE YEARS.

He doesn't have her phone number, he didnt even have Myspace up until like September, so now this is the avenue she is pursuing.

I wish she would die.

This brings up another good point, do you want to open up another avenue to his life? Right now its just sending messages through myspace, but if you call her, then she'll have a phone connection to you. And if you block your number or call from a pay phone she will still know that she can get you to call by sending him messages, and will probably just be encouraged to do it more.

[grlNIN]

How about deleting the myspace page?

Get new email addresses.

Cut off the flow to where she can get in touch.

I mentioned that the key problem is his sister is friends with everyone and their mother.

Including this chick and his previous ex that he broke up with before we started dating.

[cupcakelove]

I mentioned that the key problem is his sister is friends with everyone and their mother.

Including this chick and his previous ex that he broke up with before we started dating.

So his sister is giving out his info to people he doesn't want to talk to? That might be the source of the problem.

[Doogie]

Ok, now that I have read that he has told her to back off and she doesn't, now it is time for the restraining order. You can tell the cops that she harrassing you with the behavior that she is displaying and that you both feel threatend by her. This way you have one step above her the next she comes around and just need to call the law to take care of her the next time she pulls this shit.

It is never fun to be harrassed by someone, let them be an ex or a bully ass. I say go with this route first and DONT send her any threatening messages. She sounds like a crazy enough bitch to try and turn it around and use it against you both. I say take the high road here and get on this ASAP, dont let it go. And if you have a camera or recording device take pictures of her and document when she is harassing you. That does go a long way to helping the cops establish a pattern.

Or we can just go with the cutting the brake lines idea.

[grlNIN]

I've only ever been there once when she came in to the store to see him. Other times he knows she's there but what can you do? It's a public store and we don't know when she drives by the house so there's no real way to document these things.

[Fat_Sunny]

I mentioned that the key problem is his sister is friends with everyone and their mother.

Including this chick and his previous ex that he broke up with before we started dating.

Well, That Bit Of Data Complicates Things.

F_S Agrees With CupcakeLove And Those Who Say You Should Squelch Your Anger/Jealousy And At Least Pretend That She Is Not Getting To You. As You Said, She Is Trying To Get A Reaction From YOU Even More Than From The Boyfriend, And As Soon As You Show That It Is Getting To You, Well, That Will Be The Guarantee That It Continues And Increases.

F_S Would Say No Response Whatsoever From Your Side. No Phone Calls. No Contact Of Any Sort At All. And That Includes Telling The Boyfriend He Cannot Mention ANY Of This To His Sister. He Can Talk To Her About His Job And Anything OTHER Than You And Medusa, But He Has To Be Instructed Not To Discuss This AT ALL.

If She Gets Nothing But Stone Cold Silence From Your Side, She Will Eventually Give Up.

Also, Once She Gets A New Boyfriend, All This WIll End. So Just Grit Your Teeth, Ignore Her, And Wait It Out!

[IamPixie]

You should wait for her outside of her job and then beat her with a bat.

[FUNKMAN]

tell her she's got a dirty cooch...

[sr71blackbird]

Your BF should tell her he has the AIDS

Like this... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxFyjtbXMI0)

[Justice4all]

You should wait for her outside of her job and then beat her with a bat.

Oddly, the idea of this has merit! :D

But all kidding aside, I know several people in here say 'just ignore her, ignore her, ect. ect.'. Well that is the problem to begin with. It seems that does not work.
At what point do you stop ignoring her?
The emails? That leads to the drive by, then the phone calls and stopping in at work.
You should NOT ignore this chick. Instead make sure you and several friends show up at the store while she is there 'popping in' on your BF. Walk with her out of the store calmly and smoothly.
Tell her, under no uncertain terms, that she is to not call him or contact him anymore.
"Get the fucking hint, I know what you have done in the past and it is not going to work here. I am alot tougher then will ever be bitch. So get the hint and move the fuck on. Chalk this up to a loss and find some other guy to harass." (or something to that nature)

Don't SAY anything threatening but the sheer numbers of 3 or 4 to her 1 would pretty much send the signal to back off him.

And if she emails him saying "Oh your GF threatened me" he should say 'you are a liar and a psycho'. That should end things.

And he shoudl tell his sister under NO uncertain terms should she be giving out his cell number or whatnot. Ask HIM if it is ok first (hell I do that with anyone I know)

This is the kind of girl where ignoring her does NOTHING. She does not thrive on direct conflict, but if you give it back to her in spades she should get the hint.

Good luck Maria.

Oh yes...and always keep the BF in the loop with what you plan on doing so you are all on the same page.

[Ritalin]

Your poor boyfriend. Between the psycho ex girlfriend, his sister and you, this guy can't get a moment's peace.

[grlNIN]

Well, we ran into her about 2 weeks ago in a store and just carried on our way. My boyfriend said she has also been coming into his store often but nothing beyond that.

Last night he came home for his break and before he left he told me she came in earlier and tried talking to him. Things she said being "I haven't talked to you in 3 years", "Is this how you want it to be?" and "I'm trying to be the bigger person here".

At that moment i had to destroy the "ignore her" mindset. I am in a great relationship and i am not an unstable person. I tried to be the bigger person here too but i am fucking DONE.

When he left i immediately went upstairs and sent her this message via the myspace:

This is the only message i will ever go out of my way to send to you.

If you continue with what you may think is an unobvious habit of stalking my boyfriend i will begin to return the favor. In other words, do not think that i am naive to what you're up to and what you're out for.

He does not love you and he never will. Nor does he want your delusional and disgusting self in his life. His life is now my life, it is OUR life, and it is one that you are wholesomely unwelcome in.

We live together and i know everything you might think im unaware of. I know more about you than you probably want me to and i know how to play your game, i am however, far far above you in terms of class and would not stoop to your lows.

Unless you continue to provoke me, then i will come to where you work (and i do know exactly where you work Ms. Kitty Cat) and haunt you until you understand just how unwanted someone's presence can be.

Have a lovely life.


PS- You don't have to try and be the bigger person, sweetheart. You clearly are.

I honestly gave it my best shot at trying to put up a shield between this girl and everything she was intruding on. I know this brings me down to her level and i know it might be unattractive behavior. I am not attempting to cause a cat fight over my boyfriend because i know he's mine, etc.

Now it's about territory, i dunno, i guess it's an instinctual urge to protect what you love and i can't just take a back seat to this behavior anymore.

Also, when he went back to work he told his manager about her, about her "habits" shall we say and said that if she should come in again he is going to excuse himself into the back of the store. His manager agreed that would be best so that angle is taken care of.

Bleh.

[A.J.]

And you're afraid of public speaking....

Well done.

[Dude!]

you just escalated it pretty bad and took it to a new level
you threatened to disrupt her at her place of work
what if she decides to do that to you
what if she decides to show up at your speech and cause a scene

you girls really need to think this stuff through before you put threats in writing

[A.J.]

you just escalated it pretty bad and took it to a new level
you threatened to disrupt her at her place of work
what if she decides to do that to you
what if she decides to show up at your speech and cause a scene

you girls really need to think this stuff through before you put threats in writing

I don't think it's escalation considering she's been stalking NiN's boyfriend AT HIS JOB. What part of "it's over" does she not understand? I'd be a little frustrated too -- and probably not as tactful.

[nate1000]

I mentioned that the key problem is his sister is friends with everyone and their mother.

Including this chick and his previous ex that he broke up with before we started dating.

Your dude needs to slap his sister and explain what is going on here. I had the same thing happen with an ex who started showing up at the bar of the restaraunt I worked in with my sister. I sat my sister down and explained what is going on- she was offended "this has nothing to do with you- we're friends."

It wasn't long before I got the "I need to see you phone call", which was shot down and then evolved into the "I miss you, I want you back." phone call which ended with a don't call me again- and a click.

Guess how many times she has called my sister since then?

ps. if that sounds cruel- the head case dumped me and only became interested again because she heard I was getting serious with my (now) wife. It had nothing to do with me and was all about the head case's control issues.

pps. your dude also needs to man up and put the chick in her place- hiding in the back room is just not an option.

[hunnerbun]

If the fact that "They haven't talked in 3 yrs" doesn't give her the hint then I think you had a valid reason to send the e mail. Maybe you should have let her know that if she doesn't back off you will go to the authorities and get a restraining order. But by the sounds of things that might not even make a difference. If you do end up sending her another message i'd CC it to your b/f to keep him in the loop that way she can't lie about what you said. Cant hurt to cover your ass.

[nate1000]

One other option is to post her info here and let the posse handle it for you.

[grlNIN]

Your dude needs to slap his sister and explain what is going on here. I had the same thing happen with an ex who started showing up at the bar of the restaraunt I worked in with my sister. I sat my sister down and explained what is going on- she was offended "this has nothing to do with you- we're friends."

Exactly what he did. He also sat his mother down and told her what was going on. They both said that he can't tell his sister who to be friends with, his sister ended up crying and ultimately nothing was resolved.

He knows that i sent the email. He'll read it tonight when he gets in from work. He is totally in the loop and i have brought up theiquestion of restraining order last night, he said that there was no threatening stuff happening and also no way to prove anything.

Believe me i would LOVE a restraining order. I am also going to talk to his sister today so that she is aware of the situation and the message i have sent. I am not trying to make her an active participant in this BUT if they still talk i do not want the ex trying to trip up the situation by lying to the sister (or even bringing it up at all). I think that is the right thing to do however i am still somewhat unsure. I feel that when my boyfriend talks to his sister the lines of communication are blurred because he doesn't know how to address the issues from a female perspective.

[topless_mike]

*noting the forum*

no kind of artillery can trump a really pissed off woman. especially once she's been provoked and pushed over the edge.

the chances of you seeing her face to face now seem likely.


anybody giving odds on NIN being the last one standing?

[grlNIN]

She is large and OTL.

I have height but she has a huge body so i dont know how it'd turn out.

[nate1000]

Exactly what he did. He also sat his mother down and told her what was going on. They both said that he can't tell his sister who to be friends with, his sister ended up crying and ultimately nothing was resolved.

I feel that when my boyfriend talks to his sister the lines of communication are blurred because he doesn't know how to address the issues from a female perspective.

Speaking from experience- my wife was offended by my sister's complicity in the situation and it has impacted their relationship even to this day. Me, I brushed it off as her being an idiot.

Besides it pales in comparison to the offence caused by her marrying a bible banging baptist. "We don't celebrate Halloween, because my husband believes it is the devil's holiday." Indeed.

[foodcourtdruide]

Well, we ran into her about 2 weeks ago in a store and just carried on our way. My boyfriend said she has also been coming into his store often but nothing beyond that.

Last night he came home for his break and before he left he told me she came in earlier and tried talking to him. Things she said being "I haven't talked to you in 3 years", "Is this how you want it to be?" and "I'm trying to be the bigger person here".

At that moment i had to destroy the "ignore her" mindset. I am in a great relationship and i am not an unstable person. I tried to be the bigger person here too but i am fucking DONE.

When he left i immediately went upstairs and sent her this message via the myspace:

This is the only message i will ever go out of my way to send to you.

If you continue with what you may think is an unobvious habit of stalking my boyfriend i will begin to return the favor. In other words, do not think that i am naive to what you're up to and what you're out for.

He does not love you and he never will. Nor does he want your delusional and disgusting self in his life. His life is now my life, it is OUR life, and it is one that you are wholesomely unwelcome in.

We live together and i know everything you might think im unaware of. I know more about you than you probably want me to and i know how to play your game, i am however, far far above you in terms of class and would not stoop to your lows.

Unless you continue to provoke me, then i will come to where you work (and i do know exactly where you work Ms. Kitty Cat) and haunt you until you understand just how unwanted someone's presence can be.

Have a lovely life.


PS- You don't have to try and be the bigger person, sweetheart. You clearly are.

I honestly gave it my best shot at trying to put up a shield between this girl and everything she was intruding on. I know this brings me down to her level and i know it might be unattractive behavior. I am not attempting to cause a cat fight over my boyfriend because i know he's mine, etc.

Now it's about territory, i dunno, i guess it's an instinctual urge to protect what you love and i can't just take a back seat to this behavior anymore.

Also, when he went back to work he told his manager about her, about her "habits" shall we say and said that if she should come in again he is going to excuse himself into the back of the store. His manager agreed that would be best so that angle is taken care of.

Bleh.

You did what you did, so I won't say you did anything wrong, but I really think you just escalated an already bad situation. She was just dottering and going no where with her obsession, but now you gave her a goal and something to focus on.

[CountryBob]

Do you think his sister wants you out of the picture and her friend back with her brother? That could be part of the problem.
Also, has your boyfriend really told this chick off? I mean forcefully and stearnly? I had a similar situation once and tried to handle it nicely but it wouldnt work. My grilfriend was like you - wanting to rip her head off but until I really got down and dirty and made the ex not even remotely care for me anymore by being an ass to her.

I feel your frustration:
It's tough, because if the roles were reversed and some ex was stalking my girlfriend, I would never write about it - he would just dissappear. I would enjoy taking care of that problem.

I nothing else works - maybe try a threesome?

[grlNIN]

Speaking from experience- my wife was offended by my sister's complicity in the situation and it has impacted their relationship even to this day. Me, I brushed it off as her being an idiot.

Exactly the same. He says she is an idiot (and she is, she's 17) but i can't write it off as her being completely oblivious to the people around her, especially family.

I won't get into it but in the beginning of March we had a situation where she gave out my bf's cell # and it ended up int he hands of this girl he went to school with who got drunk and called him to get laid. My relationship with his sister is dwindling and it hurts me because i'd love to have one but at the same time i have to keep my guard up around her.

She says the things that have happened were not done maliciously but i just don't know anymore, she is an interference but i cannot cause tension between a brother and sister relationship, i have had that happen to me and because of it i no longer speak with my brother.

I don't know if he has ever truly told the ex off, like curse her off and tell her how disgusted by her he is. He is not that kind of guy and now we are starting to pay the price for his inactions.

[Thebazile78]

Exactly the same. He says she is an idiot (and she is, she's 17) but i can't write it off as her being completely oblivious to the people around her, especially family.
....

She says the things that have happened were not done maliciously but i just don't know anymore, she is an interference but i cannot cause tension between a brother and sister relationship, i have had that happen to me and because of it i no longer speak with my brother.

I don't know if he has ever truly told the ex off, like curse her off and tell her how disgusted by her he is. He is not that kind of guy and now we are starting to pay the price for his inactions.

OMG, that sounds a whole lot like what my sister used to say to us when ...

(1) my brothers & I asked her why she didn't come home or call before she switched houses while out playing with the neighborhood kids ("I forgot." No, we've told you a thousand times and hate having to ask at every house to find you.)
(2) she ran up my cell phone bill after I added her to my account ("I didn't do it on purpose; it was Lauren putting me on hold for hours..." Then freaking hang up on Lauren or get her to pay my cell phone bill. The "did you cut my cell off?" call came shortly after that. )

Ugh.

I think that, in all honesty, the kid doesn't think before she acts and that's the part of the real problem, not that she's "friends with everyone and their mother." (And, yes, kids can be and are that oblivious... see above about my sister. It's the hormones. And the fact that our brains aren't fully developed until we're 25.)

That's the issue her mom and her brother need to discuss with her, not the issue of her being friends with her brother's ex-GF's.

Something along the lines of "I know you didn't mean it this way but this is what happened. I know you're not responsible for so-and-so's behavior, and I don't expect you to be, but I do expect you to be responsible for your own behavior. And this is how your actions have impacted me."

[grlNIN]

Yep

That is the conversation he had with her when she gave his phone number out and he subsequently had to have it changed (her mom "made" her pay the $15 fee-sha right).

She said she understood but not a week later did she have a story about how her ex boyfriend (they broke up the same week as the shenanigans) interpreted an away message she had up that was along the lines of "it's good to be free". She said she didn't mean it that way but again, consequences of poor decision making and selfishness which made realize just how much she still doesn't get it and won't change.

[nate1000]

Lemme just state this clearly for you, because it is something that I wish I had heard before getting married:

You do not only marry your spouse - You get the whole family with them. And if you have children, they will never, ever, ever, never, ever, never, ever, ever be completely out of your life. They will impact your world, sometimes on a daily basis. Until the day that you die.

Just something that should be considered before making any dramatic life decisions.

Just sayin. Choose wisely.

[Freitag]

You do not only marry your spouse - You get the whole family with them. And if you have children, they will never, ever, ever, never, ever, never, ever, ever be completely out of your life. They will impact your world, sometimes on a daily basis. Until the day that you die.



QFT, although Nate puts it in more extreme terms than I would.

It's up to you to make the choice to accept them or not. Before I got to know my wife's family, I was concerned. It's all cool now.

[grlNIN]

Well i don't know how this thread turned into me getting married and having to accept his family, unless you are all either Italian or Jewish women.

His sister is 17, she's stupid, immature and functionally retarded. Will she always be this way? Probably not but even if some of these traits carry on longer than is tolerable i dont care because i won't be married to her.

If anything he has more cause to be worried about my family.

Anyway none of this was the original topic or point of the thread.

[nate1000]

Well i don't know how this thread turned into me getting married and having to accept his family, unless you are all either Italian or Jewish women.

Anyway none of this was the original topic or point of the thread.

Ok, then. *click*

[Thebazile78]

Well i don't know how this thread turned into me getting married and having to accept his family, unless you are all either Italian or Jewish women.

His sister is 17, she's stupid, immature and functionally retarded. Will she always be this way? Probably not but even if some of these traits carry on longer than is tolerable i dont care because i won't be married to her.

If anything he has more cause to be worried about my family.

Anyway none of this was the original topic or point of the thread.

The whole younger sister thing reminded me so strongly of my own that I had to derail. And you do get your s.o. as a package deal with his or her family, no matter how independent he or she is. The family dynamic can provide either frustration or insight, depending on how you view it ... I try really hard to gain insights about expectations and ingrained habits from my experiences with Matty's family. There are some habits that he has ... that I've also seen in his brother ... that irk the living daylights out of me. So I commiserate with his s-i-l and learn how SHE deals with them. (It helps. A lot.)

Back on topic, I have a bit of experience with a psycho ex who was still (allegedly) friends with the sister of a guy I dated ... but their entire relationship was dysfunctional anyway, so there was no way I could have solved anything.

I did try to get him to stop hanging out with her (yes, they used to hang out because she had a friendship with his sister, so she was over to the house all the time) and could never understand why, since their relationship had ended REALLY badly in his eyes, he couldn't just say something to his mom and his sister about how insane having his ex over was. Especially when they'd badmouth her CONSTANTLY when she wasn't around. (So, at this point, I figure they're doing the EXACT same thing about me too, and it's almost 10 years later.) I just couldn't understand why they would let someone who was THAT toxic into their lives ... this was, of course, before I was ready to see how toxic THEY are to be around themselves. (They're miserable and, quite frankly, they've gotten what they deserve.)

It makes me wonder if maybe the one thing they were afraid of most was accepting CHANGE.

It's hard to accept change, especially if someone's been a habit for a while ... it took a while for me to accept my brother Ger's first girlfriend after he broke up with his high school g.f., not because I liked her but because she'd been around for so long (it was harder because I liked her too and the one that came after she did was a snotty little cunt) ... I accepted the new girl and kind of moved on.

But I did manage to have a talk with my brother telling him that it was hard for me because he'd been with the other girl for so long. (He's with a new girl now who is great. I like her a lot and hope he doesn't screw things up, but that's totally off-point.)

Maybe it's different for me because I'm older than all of my siblings, so I feel like I can tell them off when they deserve it...and I often do. Sometimes they even thank me for it later.