World Trade Center

[thepaulo]

It's obviously a sore point to even mention this wound on the American consciousness but every time I see a movie that has those buildings in it....it is like a little memorial to all the people who died....We all have a connection to it great or small (a high school classmate of mine was a fire chief who died going up into the building)....anyway every time I see a movie with the WTC in it I'd like to remember it ....

Today I was watching a weird little documentary called The Cruise made in 1998 directed by Bennett Miller who went on to direct Capote showing Tim "Speed" Levitch as he conducts a greyline tour of Manhattan and midway he talks about imagining the buildings falling on top of him....

So if anyone sees a movie with WTC feel free to mention it....
I'll mention one obvious one....King Kong (1976) which climaxes at the WTC

[TheMojoPin]

I'll mention one obvious one....King Kong (1976) who climaxes on the WTC

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....

[Judge Smails]

I see them all the time in movies and nearly everytime it takes me completely out of the movie. I start daydreaming or if I'm with someone I'll say "There's the towers" which usually leads to a discussion.

I was watching Men in Black with my kids a couple of weeks ago and the towers are in the background of the scene where the alien gives birth. My kids are too young to remember 9/11, or the towers, but they have seen pictures (we have a framed picture in our basement). This one scene led to a discussion of the towers, and what happened to them. Then it led to an even more in depth conversation about terrorism and safety. By the time we got back to Men in Black, we'd missed about fifteen minutes of the movie.

[drjoek]

15 minutes of NOT watching Men in Black is probably a good thing

[thepaulo]

everyone has made a valid point.

[Tallman388]

If I remeber correctly, there's a scene in the French Connection that shows the South Tower still under construction.

[shodan]

The first Men in Black was OK, the second was an artistic abortion.

[Midkiff]

There's that Simpsons episode where his car is booted between the two towers and Homer is waiting there for the police. That one is hilarious.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/The_Simpsons_%281997%29.jpg

http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/Jen%20Chung/2006_04_conyvshs.jpg

[mr.smokepants]

It's obviously a sore point to even mention this wound on the American consciousness but every time I see a movie that has those buildings in it....it is like a little memorial to all the people who died....We all have a connection to it great or small (a high school classmate of mine was a fire chief who died going up into the building)....anyway every time I see a movie with the WTC in it I'd like to remember it ....

Today I was watching a weird little documentary called The Cruise made in 1998 directed by Bennett Miller who went on to direct Capote showing Tim "Speed" Levitch as he conducts a greyline tour of Manhattan and midway he talks about imagining the buildings falling on top of him....

So if anyone sees a movie with WTC feel free to mention it....
I'll mention one obvious one....King Kong (1976) which climaxes at the WTC

It's so funny that you put up this post.....I'm a WTC 1 survivor, and I see those towers all the time in a lots of stuff. I was watching an old Spiderman cartoon with the kids this week and I saw what looked like the WTC buildings....now the original ones I was watching were made pre 1972, so I'm not sure if the buildings were meant to be the Trade Centers, but they sure looked like it. Strangely, I love seeing them in stuff, but I won't watch movies specifically about the event....like Fahrenheit 911, or World Trade Center...just not my bag. Cool post! :thumbup:

[mr.smokepants]

There's that Simpsons episode where his car is booted between the two towers and Homer is waiting there for the police. That one is hilarious.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/The_Simpsons_%281997%29.jpg

http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/Jen%20Chung/2006_04_conyvshs.jpg

Hilarious!

[JustJon]

As a New Yorker, I can't watch any movies or anything involving the tragedies that occurred that day, with few exceptions, but I don't want it to be removed from any existing art. I recall there being something with the first Spider-man movie where they weren't sure if they should remove the towers from the backgrounds of certain scenes, and other movies around the time with plot points involving the towers. It would annoy me more to know that people were taking them out of old movies and whatnot.

[mr.smokepants]

As a New Yorker, I can't watch any movies or anything involving the tragedies that occurred that day, with few exceptions, but I don't want it to be removed from any existing art. I recall there being something with the first Spider-man movie where they weren't sure if they should remove the towers from the backgrounds of certain scenes, and other movies around the time with plot points involving the towers. It would annoy me more to know that people were taking them out of old movies and whatnot.

Totally agree, 100%. Those towers were such a statement about the power and strength of New York as a city, that to eliminate them from our consciousness is silly. I kinda look at it this way: Even though those F*&ks knocked them down, the feelings that they invoke and the way that they solidified New York as a "being" makes their attack a colossal failure. I'd give anything for that day not to happen, but the way people treated each other and the help I personally received to survive and continue on will never be forgotten...not by me, and not by my family. I'm a Canadian, born and bred, but the affection I have for my Big Brothers in the States can never be shaken. My dad is the same way. When we were little kids, we went to US on vacation every year....it was better than Christmas! Different candy bars, fireworks, cheaply priced musical instruments. People around here are so quick to blast the US as a whole...when they know nothing about the people that actually live there....I get in so many arguments with hayseed Canadians about what America is all about, it's ridiculous. The prevailing thinking where I live is "Americans are war mongers and invaders". I can say that the whole time I lived in DC and NYC, I never met one person like that. Canadians that have never lived there know nothing about the people...just the politics. We as neighbors, on the whole, are so much alike....normal folks like you and me all want the same thing....peace and family, and happiness. F*%k I love the States....all you Americans remember that when some dolt from north of the border tries to pin the awful war in Iraq on you personally. I applaud you guys.

[mr.smokepants]

Oh yeah...one more thing....my old company, Microdesk of New England, was the only company that would give me a shot right after college. That company was 100% American run, (and run well I might add). I learned so much about everything....and it was taught to me by Americans, smart ones. American does one thing better than any other country....that is business, and how to treat customers. Go to England or Toronto some time and see the lack of care business has for the consumer.....it stinks! That's the biggest lesson I learned in the US...

Sorry, off topic, just felt like getting that out. Hi Paul O.

[AnnoyedGrunt]

I find it a bit unnerving to watch Escape from New York and see Snake fly his plane towards the WTC.

[FUNKMAN]

not a movie but my dad took us to the WTC soon after being built and he took 8mm film of us walking around inside and out over the river and city. guess it had to be around 78/79. he had it transferred to vhs.

[thepaulo]

The new film The Kingdom directly references the attack on the world trade center in the credits.....The Jamie Fox/ Jennifer Garner film is about FBI agents investigating a terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia.....

[epo]

Not a movie....but a music video...Ryan Adam's "New York, New York" was shot on Sept 7, 2001 and spends 1/2 of it's time with the Towers as a backdrop. It's just weird now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMphsrBTJY

[ppanda]

Not a movie....but a music video...Ryan Adam's "New York, New York" was shot on Sept 7, 2001 and spends 1/2 of it's time with the Towers as a backdrop. It's just weird now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMphsrBTJY

Weird you should mention that video- because it was filmed like a week after I saw Radiohead at Liberty Island state park where they played with the NY skyline in the background....and resulting in my last positive mental image of the towers.

[who6489]

As a New Yorker, I can't watch any movies or anything involving the tragedies that occurred that day, with few exceptions, but I don't want it to be removed from any existing art. I recall there being something with the first Spider-man movie where they weren't sure if they should remove the towers from the backgrounds of certain scenes, and other movies around the time with plot points involving the towers. It would annoy me more to know that people were taking them out of old movies and whatnot.

One of the original Trailers for the movie had Spidey webbing a helicopter between the Towers. I'm sure it's on Youtube somewhere.

[who6489]

I find it a bit unnerving to watch Escape from New York and see Snake fly his plane towards the WTC.

Especially since it was supposed to be in the future. Ironically, I think the "future" was the late 90's

[ChrisTheCop]

Watching Charlie Sheen and Angie Harmon in "Good Advice" right now.

Theres a scene where they go around the city showing people reading the paper, and there they are in the background. The movie came out in 2001 too. Weird.

The movie was already ruined by its own stupidity, but that scene just got me thinking about other things.

The 6th anniversary is coming up; my feelings havent changed, as much as I may try to dismiss them.

[newport king]

Ending of Vanilla Sky wierds me out when cruise leaps off the top of one of them.

[thepaulo]

of course the obvious movie to watch today is Oliver Stone's World Trade Center....
or last year's best movie , United 93.....

[cougarjake13]

Not a movie....but a music video...Ryan Adam's "New York, New York" was shot on Sept 7, 2001 and spends 1/2 of it's time with the Towers as a backdrop. It's just weird now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMphsrBTJY

you know whats weirder ???


there are people that are in the towers in the background of the video who were at the moment of filming working or just chilling whatever that are now dead

if there was a way to zoom in and see what was going on in the towers, you'd see a bunch of dead people still alive walking around having no clue that that weekend would be their last and the hell that was coming 4 days later

[thepaulo]

two recent movies devoted to the world trade center tragedy are

Reign Over Me with Adam Sandler

and of course

Fahrenheit 911

[TheMojoPin]

two recent movies devoted to the world trade center tragedy are

Reign Over Me with Adam Sandler

and of course

Fahrenheit 911

I found 25th Hour much better and much more poignant than either of them.

And that time Ewan McGregor popped a wheelie and jumped from tower to the other on his motorcycle...it was stupid of him, but it meant a lot to me.

[Freitag]

Ending of Vanilla Sky wierds me out when cruise leaps off the top of one of them.

WTC was in the final cut of Vanilla Sky, but I'm 99 percent sure he doesn't leap off the top of one of the towers.

[Freitag]

of course the obvious movie to watch today is Oliver Stone's World Trade Center....
or last year's best movie , United 93.....

No, Paulo. The only movie that is 9/11 centered that should be watched today is the french documentary about this that came out a few weeks after the event happened.

Not dramatizations. Sorry.

[thepaulo]

French documentaries.......Spike Lee films......ah......
both trouble me and intrigue me for the same reason......they inject too much of their own point of view.......the 25th hour was full of a typical lack of focus from Lee, mostly because he was trying to tie too many things together....
The French clearly have a different opinion of Americans than Americans do....which makes it interesting but hardly definitive .....

and of course McGregor is an idiot.....

[TheMojoPin]

French documentaries.......Spike Lee films......ah......
both trouble me and intrigue me for the same reason......they inject too much of their own point of view.......the 25th hour was full of a typical lack of focus from Lee, mostly because he was trying to tie too many things together....
The French clearly have a different opinion of Americans than Americans do....which makes it interesting but hardly definitive .....

But Michael Moore's film doesn't do any of this?

Condemning any film, which is an inherrently personal vision, because the filmmaker "injected their point of view" makes absolutely no sense.

And how did 25th Hour "lack focus?" I agree that many of Lee's films are scattershot, but that one is easily one of his most linear films. The focus is Norton's character's last day as a free man and what got him into that situation, all of which is set and framed by post-9/11 NYC. How is a film so easily summed up "lacking focus?"

You're a weird, weird guy.

[Freitag]

French documentaries.......Spike Lee films......ah......
both trouble me and intrigue me for the same reason......they inject too much of their own point of view.......the 25th hour was full of a typical lack of focus from Lee, mostly because he was trying to tie too many things together....
The French clearly have a different opinion of Americans than Americans do....which makes it interesting but hardly definitive .....

and of course McGregor is an idiot.....

Paulo, I don't think you know what film I'm talking about.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312318/

[Freitag]

French documentaries.......Spike Lee films......ah......
both trouble me and intrigue me for the same reason......they inject too much of their own point of view.......the 25th hour was full of a typical lack of focus from Lee, mostly because he was trying to tie too many things together....
The French clearly have a different opinion of Americans than Americans do....which makes it interesting but hardly definitive .....

and of course McGregor is an idiot.....

"inject too much of their own pov"

1) And Oliver Stone DOESN'T?

2) And "Flight 93" is a dramatization documentary at best, because NO one knows what happened on that flight. It's not real. It's only as real as what people could put together.

[TheMojoPin]

And how did 25th Hour "lack focus?" I agree that many of Lee's films are scattershot, but that one is easily one of his most linear films. The focus is Norton's character's last day as a free man and what got him into that situation, all of which is set and framed by post-9/11 NYC. How is a film so easily summed up "lacking focus?" I think the film's "9/11 content" ends up being more powerful because the movie is in no way actually about 9/11. It simply presents the sense of dread and edginess and sadness and anger and confusion and EVERYTHING afterwards in the context of one man's worl falling apart. It's in no way essential to the story but I find it incredible how it fuels the film. Personally, I think Lee's footage of the the "towers of light" during the opening credits, combined with the music used, are the best tribute and emtoional response Hollywood has yet to produce regarding that day and the aftermath.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y6NK3BrO8u0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y6NK3BrO8u0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

I didn't find Reign Over Me to be a bad film, but part of me was bothered the whole time how 9/11 was simply reduced to a plot point to a sappy cryfest and not much more. It seems to cheapen the whole thing by ultimately simplifying the entire thing down to a plot twist where one man who loses his family and then finds comfort through an old friend. It ultimately makes 9/11 incidental...any "tragedy" or accident (plane crash, fire, car accident, etc.) would have accomplished the same in the context of the film. I find the use of post-9/11 NYC in 25H as a framing device much more primal and less heavyhanded.

[TheMojoPin]

Why can't I embed that video in my above post?

[Furtherman]

Why can't I embed that video in my above post?

You've gotta sweek talk if you want to get it embed.

[TheMojoPin]

"inject too much of their own pov"

1) And Oliver Stone DOESN'T?

In that film? Not at all. I say that as someone who is Oliver Stone fan #1...World Trade Center could have been directed by anyone. It bears little to none of Stone's politics or filmmkaing signatures.

2) And "Flight 93" is a dramatization documentary at best, because NO one knows what happened on that flight. It's not real. It's only as real as what people could put together.

Based on extensive investigations and the public evidence, it's very likely that most of what we see in the film happened. To say "NO one knows what happened on that flight" as if it's some kind of giant mystery is a fallacy. There is extensive evidence as to exactly what happened on that flight.

[TheMojoPin]

Hmmm, embed seems to be dead. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=y6NK3BrO8u0)

[thepaulo]

I can only judge a film in it's entirety...not it's parts....many parts of the 25th hour were magnificent but many weren't....and many parts of the film did not fit with the other parts....
as hard as I try, I cannot join the opening segment of the WTC with the rest of the film....

as far as the French film goes....use it as a companion piece with one or two others....
and McGregor is still an idiot.

[TheMojoPin]

and many parts of the film did not fit with the other parts...

Alright, you gave us one example. What else? Review it, dammit.

[Furtherman]

Based on extensive investigations and the public evidence, it's very likely that most of what we see in the film happened. To say "NO one knows what happened on that flight" as if it's some kind of giant mystery is a fallacy. There is extensive evidence as to exactly what happened on that flight.

There is no way a reasonable facsimile of what happened was translated onto film. Family members of those killed gave descriptions of what they were like. You think they mentioned any faults? Yes, we do know they fought back (and didn't even say "Let's roll", rather "Roll it") and we know from what people said was on the cell phone conversations, and the plane crashed. The rest was fiction and we'll just never know who did what and exactly happened. No survivors. I saw it as a movie that didn't need to be made.

[thepaulo]

clearly we all are going to feel differently......United 93 and JFK are both brilliant films even though we can debate how much is fact.....

as far as the 25th hour......the premise was great...and Norton was great.....but.....

I did not respond to parts.....his relationship to his girlfriend...his relationship with his friends....
they didn't ring true.........and they were annoying....and they almost trivialized the core drama of a man facing a kind of living death.....

sure you can say....that his life had become so trivial was the point.....
but it left me ambivalent....

what should have been poignant became just pathetic......

again that was probably the point but.....for me it was a swing and a miss.

[TheMojoPin]

There is no way a reasonable facsimile of what happened was translated onto film. Family members of those killed gave descriptions of what they were like. You think they mentioned any faults? Yes, we do know they fought back (and didn't even say "Let's roll", rather "Roll it") and we know from what people said was on the cell phone conversations, and the plane crashed. The rest was fiction and we'll just never know who did what and exactly happened. No survivors. I saw it as a movie that didn't need to be made.

What film ever "needs" to be made?

And yes, obviously the film filled in a ton of specific details that nobody will ever know are true or not, but the overall scenario from the 9/11 report is one that is pretty clearly deduced from the available evidence and not some kind of overall mystery where the key parts of what occured will never be known.

[TheMojoPin]

clearly we all are going to feel differently......United 93 and JFK are both brilliant films even though we can debate how much is fact.....

I'd always be up for that. I think U93 is largely factual with some dramatic license to fill in the smaller details that can never be known, but by and large it is very faithful to what is known about that day. JFK, on the other hand, is almost totally fictional. As a film, however, I think it's absolutely stunning. One of the greatest American films of all time and a true work of art. I think U93 is also very well made (Paul Greengrass is one of my favorite directors out there right now) and very respectful to the gravity of the subject matter.

as far as the 25th hour......the premise was great...and Norton was great.....but.....

I did not respond to parts.....his relationship to his girlfriend...his relationship with his friends....
they didn't ring true.........and they were annoying....

You were similary vague with similar criticisms of Superbad and other films you've talked about...seemingly random parts you pick out as "not ringing true" or "that you don't buy" without ever really explaining why. Pretty much every movie requires some degree of suspended reality, and that seems like a crutch you fall back on when you're talking about films that seem to want to criticize for whatever reason, but ultimately don't find something that really brings the film down. Now, I'm not expecting everyone to love this movie, but your criticisms are pretty repetetive and ultimately not very clear. His girlfriend was his girlfriend. His friends were his friends. It's not like they were people who didn't like each other that we were then almost forced to accept as close. They were all shown going through wildly varying emotions and responses as someone very important to them is going to jail for at least several years and maybe, just maybe, not coming back. What did they need to do or say for them to "ring true" to you? If you know what you're seeing is false, surely you have a specific expectation as to what you should be seeing, yes?

and they almost trivialized the core drama of a man facing a kind of living death.....

"They" who, the people around Monty in the film or the filmmakers? And either way, how so?

sure you can say....that his life had become so trivial was the point.....
but it left me ambivalent....

I don't see anyone in the film acting like his life is "trivial" except for Monty himself at his points of ultimate despair. What do you see as people treating him as trivial?

what should have been poignant became just pathetic......

In the end you're seeing a man going to jail and possibly losing everything for selling a LOT of drugs. As human beings, we see much of his life and what he is losing as poignant, but at the same time, he is supposed to also be pathetic as he is ultimately resigned to accept his fate. Nobody has sunk him down to these depths except for Monty himself. If those close to him seem to be acting increasingly hostile to him it is because we see Monty purposely pushing them away because he knows he's lost them due only to his own decisions and actions. He's acting out the rage he feels at himself onto those that "dare" to show love to him. I think you also see, however, the people that love him fighting through his anger to show how much they do still love him and how maybe he will still have something if he gets out. A slim hope of redemption for a man that that must pay for his mistakes.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, Paul-O...I hope we can just have a discussion about our different perceptions of some films and maybe you can clarify some of your criticisms.

[TheMojoPin]

as hard as I try, I cannot join the opening segment of the WTC with the rest of the film....

Why not? It's a recurring theme, namely that the credits make the city of NY itself post-9/11 almost a character on its own throughout the film. To me, the credits set the sense of dread and emotional weight and paranoia and fear that coat the entire film. And if you need specific references to 9/11 itself, you have the scene in Barry Pepper's apartment above Ground Zero and then, of course, the infamous "fuck you" monologue.

[thepaulo]

I think Lee was in a unique position.....
He was one of the first people to directly reference 9/11....
but I think it was a rushed decision to wedge it into this film.....
but i think he had no choice...because he probably had enough creative control that no one was gonna stop him........
and sure we can make connections to the emotional hole that was swallowing him up to the one that was in the ground in lower Manhattan...but it's quite a stretch.....
and two of my favorite actors....Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Rosario Dawson both left me feeling underwhelmed.....not only because their characters were creepy but because they looked uncomfortable.....like they were unsure if they were approaching the material correctly......
Do the Right Thing and Malcolm X I can defend as great films.....
the rest are full of good and bad things.....that require lots of energy to even discuss

[thepaulo]

actually a great documentary is coming on sundance channel in a few minutes....
dust to dust....
about the health effects of 9/11 on workers

[TheMojoPin]

I think Lee was in a unique position.....
He was one of the first people to directly reference 9/11....
but I think it was a rushed decision to wedge it into this film.....
but i think he had no choice...because he probably had enough creative control that no one was gonna stop him........

That's a lot of assumptions. The film didn't come out until December of 2002, so it's not like production was "cornered" by 9/11. I'm not sure why you think it was "rushed" at all. If you look at Lee's films outside of Malcolm X, he always presents NYC at the time of filming as a very vibrant and real and important part of the films. You then say you think he "had no choice," seemingly implying that he was pressured to include 9/11-related footage...but then you say he had so much control he could do what he wanted...which is it?

It's almost like when you watched this film you wanted it to be about 9/11 and now you're faulting it because it wasn't. I'm not sure how something that sets a mood but is overall incidental to the actual meat of the story is really "wedged" in there. You pull all the 9/11 footage and you don't have to change anything about the film. The stuff like the light towers are supposed to establish the setting and the tone/mood, not drive the story.

and sure we can make connections to the emotional hole that was swallowing him up to the one that was in the ground in lower Manhattan...but it's quite a stretch.....

Well, that's your stretch. I never said the site was supposed to be a metaphor to anything specific we're seeing in the film, nor do I really think it is. I think it's there to establish the mood for what we're about to see and frame the characters with a very specific setting.

and two of my favorite actors....Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Rosario Dawson both left me feeling underwhelmed.....not only because their characters were creepy but because they looked uncomfortable.....like they were unsure if they were approaching the material correctly......

I gotta disagree. First of all, I have no idea how Dawson's character comes off as "creepy." You're really gonna have to go into that for it to make any sense. Secondly, Hoffman is supposed to be creepy and uncomfortable...he's a schlubby teacher who is attracted to and possibly being seduced by one of his students and he's having a night out on the town with his "cool" friends in "cool" nightspots and he's a hopeless dork. Add to that one of his best friends about go to jail and maybe never coming back and it shouldn't be unexpected that he seems so flustered and out of sorts.

[thepaulo]

this film obviously means a lot to you....so it's best I stop now......
It's been a long while since I've seen it.....so I'll have to defer to you on this one.....I'll have to watch it again to see if there is any connective tissue that I have dismissed.....that might make a difference.....

[TheMojoPin]

this film obviously means a lot to you....so it's best I stop now......
It's been a long while since I've seen it.....so I'll have to defer to you on this one.....I'll have to watch it again to see if there is any connective tissue that I have dismissed.....that might make a difference.....

It only means a lot to me in that I really enjoy it and I think it's very well made film. I have no kind of emotional attachment to it whatsoever. I just thought I could get a good back and forth going here on it, and I am curious for your reasonings. I like hearing why people do or don't like something film-wise.

[thepaulo]

i'll watch the film again....
just one final point......
the creepiness that Hoffman had in Boogie Nights for instance was great....
but in this film he just seemed unmemorable ....i'll cover some other points later

[thepaulo]

documentary film about Phillipe Petite 1974 high wire crossing between the Twin Towers opens today.....
It's called Man on Wire and is terrific.

[Thebazile78]

documentary film about Phillipe Petite 1974 high wire crossing between the Twin Towers opens today.....
It's called Man on Wire and is terrific.

Didn't that premiere at TriBeCa Film Festival back in April-ish?

(Heard about it, read about it, looks really interesting ... and I can actually watch movies with the Towers in them now, so I guess that's good.)

[Knowledged_one]

Well not the WTC, but i worked on the F-18 as a flight test engineer

And we were testing this thing called the SHARP pod, well they were flying over DC on September 9th, and the chase plane took a shot of the test jet and you can see everything in DC including the pentagon

It was the last picture taken over DC with the Pentagon in tact

I still have that photo framed to remember

You can see the picture in smaller form here (its image B)

http://www.nrl.navy.mil/content.php?P=02REVIEW179

[jlehane3]

It was a trick to get the U.S. into war,since the military needs war for profit. Civilian deaths are merely colateral damage to them,a calculated risk,an acceptable loss.We are the sheep to the slaughter just doing our jobs,swallowing weapons of mass destruction validation,lighting candles instead of realizing what hit us....Sanitized mass murder to get us into war.We hate war until we as a people are self-righteously TWEAKED by the PROMPTERS,stirred to moral indignation as a nation. Snagging Saddam was covering for previous mistakes in foreign interference.The American public was "played" and duped like never before. Turn that FROWN upside-down. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/jlehane3/JokerIgetTheJokeReduced.jpg

[Knowledged_one]

It was a trick to get the U.S. into war,since the military needs war for profit. Civilian deaths are merely colateral damage to them,a calculated risk,an acceptable loss.We are the sheep to the slaughter just doing our jobs,swallowing weapons of mass destruction validation,lighting candles instead of realizing what hit us....Sanitized mass murder to get us into war.We hate war until we as a people are self-righteously TWEAKED by the PROMPTERS,stirred to moral indignation as a nation. Snagging Saddam was covering for previous mistakes in foreign interference.The American public was "played" and duped like never before. Turn that FROWN upside-down. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/jlehane3/JokerIgetTheJokeReduced.jpg

Wow is there a term for a person who is beyond an idiot and beyond retarded

[TheMojoPin]

Shocker.

[Knowledged_one]

Shocker.

thats right i forgot that he is that guy

[thepaulo]

Runaway Bride

Brewster's Millions

[thepaulo]

Scent of a Woman....(after Pacino does his joyride)


even that stupid movie Mirrors (when he enters Earth 2)

[thepaulo]

When I think of WTC.....
i'm always shocked that the Eiffel Tower and Big Ben are still around......
I still think Armageddon (or if you prefer, mass global destruction) is just around the corner.

[Thebazile78]

When I think of WTC.....
i'm always shocked that the Eiffel Tower and Big Ben are still around......
I still think Armageddon (or if you prefer, mass global destruction) is just around the corner.

The Brits know when they're beaten ... they have since the end of WWII. So, while they may piss off their own citizens, their foreign policy has been primarily isolationist. Which makes them a perfect breeding-ground for terrorists ... just look at the Tube bombings!

Also, they've already dealt with terrorism in the form of "the Troubles" with the IRA. They're on high-alert without making it a big deal.

As for the French ... they'll capitulate before the Eiffel Tower is threatened. Again, I point to WWII.

[TheMojoPin]

Why would terrorists along the lines of Al-Queda and their ilk waste their time attempting to blow up Big Ben or the Eiffel Tower?

That's an inherrently stupid observation that completely misses the key reasons the 9/11 targets were targeted.

[Thebazile78]

Why would terrorists along the lines of Al-Queda and their ilk waste their time attempting to blow up Big Ben or the Eiffel Tower?

That's an inherrently stupid observation that completely misses the key reasons the 9/11 targets were targeted.

Oooh, good point.

I forgot that they were trying to make a point, not just blow up some tall buildings. The idea was to lash out at the economic influence of Wall Street (etc.) from the West on the rest of the (Muslim) world.

The Eiffel Tower is a landmark, but it serves no purpose economically or politically (except to hose tourists, but that's not the point.)

HOWEVER, Big Ben is part of the Houses of Parliament, so it's a more feasible target if you wanted to make a point about the influences of the British government. (But they're a relatively isolationist government at present and don't have the same sort of economic clout that the US has.)

I wonder when they'll start attacking China, don't you?

[Furtherman]

I wonder when they'll start attacking China, don't you?

China is doing enough damage to itself. It'll be their own undoing when war breaks out. They'll fire the first shot.

[TheMojoPin]

Oooh, good point.

I forgot that they were trying to make a point, not just blow up some tall buildings. The idea was to lash out at the economic influence of Wall Street (etc.) from the West on the rest of the (Muslim) world.

The Eiffel Tower is a landmark, but it serves no purpose economically or politically (except to hose tourists, but that's not the point.)

HOWEVER, Big Ben is part of the Houses of Parliament, so it's a more feasible target if you wanted to make a point about the influences of the British government. (But they're a relatively isolationist government at present and don't have the same sort of economic clout that the US has.)

Presumably a strike on Parliament would actually target the Parliament buildings and not the giant clocked tower attached to it.

I wonder when they'll start attacking China, don't you?

Probably not for a while. China doesn't have the same readily recognizable influence that America does, nor the same overt history in the Middle East. What feeds the extremist rhetoric against America is our very visible pop culture and economic influence/control and the presence of Amerian troops in the Middle East as well as our overt political gestures and responses towards the reason. Chinais much more behind the scenes at this point, and it's difficult to rally people against an enemy they can't easily see or understand.

[Thebazile78]

Presumably a strike on Parliament would actually target the Parliament buildings and not the giant clocked tower attached to it.

But it'd cause panic and disrupt things for a day or so, wouldn't it?


Did you see that BBC made-for-TV movie about the dirty bomb? I only caught parts of it, but it reminded me of this.


Probably not for a while. China doesn't have the same readily recognizable influence that America does, nor the same overt history in the Middle East. What feeds the extremist rhetoric against America is our very visible pop culture and economic influence/control and the presence of Amerian troops in the Middle East as well as our overt political gestures and responses towards the reason. Chinais much more behind the scenes at this point, and it's difficult to rally people against an enemy they can't easily see or understand.

Again, good point about the military presence and overreaction to things that largely don't concern us. Something I wasn't taking into consideration when I was trying to draw the parallel. China is more concerned with Asia and only Asia, whereas the US likes to follow the Monroe Doctrine/Roosevelt Corollary arguments to the nth degree of playing world "peacekeeper."

And, for the bolded portion, it's been tough to rally people here against China, too. I'm seeing them simultaneously self-destruct and extend their influence. With a billion people, I can see it happening sooner rather than later, but we'll see.

[TheMojoPin]

But it'd cause panic and disrupt things for a day or so, wouldn't it?

Well, obviously, but it would increase the risk of an already incredibly risky operation rather pointlessly.

[Thebazile78]

Well, obviously, but it would increase the risk of an already incredibly risky operation rather pointlessly.

I forgot that they don't think strategically like I do.

I'd do one high-profile hit as a distraction with a lower-profile hit being the primary target ... the purpose of which would draw the support services away from my primary target. (But, the Brits have already experienced stuff like that, haven't they? Again, I point to "the Troubles" and the IRA's guerrilla-terror tactics.)

[TheMojoPin]

I forgot that they don't think strategically like I do.

I'd do one high-profile hit as a distraction with a lower-profile hit being the primary target ... the purpose of which would draw the support services away from my primary target. (But, the Brits have already experienced stuff like that, haven't they? Again, I point to "the Troubles" and the IRA's guerrilla-terror tactics.)

Honestly, that's very movie strategic and not reality strategic. In reality, that just costs more men and more resources and creates more chances for being exposed and foiling the attack on the intended target.

[JerseySean]

documentary film about Phillipe Petite 1974 high wire crossing between the Twin Towers opens today.....
It's called Man on Wire and is terrific.

Thats classy. Way to use the anniversary to help your movie. French cunt

[TheMojoPin]

Thats classy. Way to use the anniversary to help your movie. French cunt

Did you even see the date of the post you replied to? The movie came out months ago.

[Thebazile78]

Honestly, that's very movie strategic and not reality strategic. In reality, that just costs more men and more resources and creates more chances for being exposed and foiling the attack on the inended target.

I'm not being realistic this morning. True; there's more that could go wrong with a double operation. And it'd have to be synched perfectly in order to pull it off. Which almost never happens.

Today's problem is I'm at work, and suffering from mild anxiety from (a) being less than 5 miles from Newark Airport and (b) being near NYC ... and I just got an e-mail inviting me up to my hometown's dedication of its 9/11 memorial. I know two of the families who lost sons that day.

I hate coming to work on 11 September, although it's easier when the weather isn't warm. (The first few years following the actual events, I either called out sick or worked from home. Had I done that this year, I'd have had to reschedule my telecommute day.)

Do other cities do the same kinds of "moments of silence" (8:46am & 9:03am, local time) and other kinds of remembrances that the NYC-area does?

[Thebazile78]

Thats classy. Way to use the anniversary to help your movie. French cunt

Did you even see the date of the post you replied to? The movie came out months ago.

Haven't we already established, in several other threads, that the majority of people on this board don't read?