Serious Moral Debate I need help with

[Doogie]

I preface this by saying this is a long detailed story, but I am stating a case, and hence why I titled it what I did.

As some of you know, and for the rest who are going to be informed if you didnt know, I served in the United States Air Force. I was let out early for a medical discharge, honorable, yaddey yadda. I'll say that I was very very happy to be getting out of their, but at the same time there are somethings I miss. But I also find myself proud that I did my time there and if time comes for me to wear my uniform for an event, I'll gladly do it. I state these facts cause I saw something the other day that has me seriously reporting something that is a crime under US military law, regardless if you are still in the service or not.

Every year in Rockland they have an annual firefighters parade. The county parade. It is usually a big event, and this year was no exception. Due to the fact that I turned in all my parade gear when I went into the service three years ago, and havent recieved my new uniform yet, I was a bystander for this years parade. I almost wore my bro's chief's uniform but didnt do so cause that wouldnt be right by my moral standards, even if members of my company wanted me to do it.

Anyways as a result of not having a uniform I was watching the parade and having some fun cheering on friends from neighboring departments in the county, and even heckling some to see if I could get them to crack a smile in the line of march. One of the neighboring departments, of whom myself and my father are honorary members, had in their line of march a guy marching with an Air Force uniform. Not only does he have a uniform on, but he is also sporting Captains bars. And people are waving and cheering and happy about that. All nice and cozy and patriotic and warm yet?? Well here is where the story goes downhill. The guy was someone who had served with me whilst we were overseas. Ok, so whats the big whoop? The guy was an enlisted member just as I was.

Now for those who dont know, there are enlisted guys, and then there are officers in the Air Force. We are just two different classes of people. Enlisted members are for the most part just kids entering from HS or late teens early 20's looking for life, job, whatever. It is just stated that simply. To become an officer you have to have A) gone through the Air Force academy. B) Gone through college, gotten a Bachelors, entered the ROTC while there and entered Officers Training School (OTS) after getting your bachelors; or C) Been an OUTSTANDING enlisted man, gotten a bachelors, then went through this long, long process (at least 6 months) amongst many, many canidates of other enlistees like yourself to become an officer. To enter as a pilot, wayyyyyyyyyyyy slimmer chances even with all three. You can be an officer in the Air Force and NOT be a pilot. The problem is your advancement stops at O-5 (Lieutenant Colonel). I promise, all this info is pertinant to what I have to say/ask.

Now back to the parade action. This guy marches with the neighboring department and the crowd loves it, etc. As I stated before I served with this guy in Kadena. He lived in my building and my building was an enlisted persons building. He was security forces, and I was flightline maintanance. I chatted with him in November 2005 about home, seeing we are both from the same county, and what not. But I didnt see the guy that frequently while there. However when I chatted with him that time in Nov. 2005 he was in uniform and was wearing the rank of E-3 (Enlisted ranks go from E-1 to E-9). He told me he was being let out cause he found employment with the FDNY and was going for the physicals, yaddey yadda. And it isnt that far fetched of a story, there are instances where they let you out if you find a federal job, or equivelant civil service position, FDNY falling in that category. It is rare, but it does happen.

Fast forward LESS than two years later and I see him, in the line of march wearing an officers uniform. And not only is he wearing that, but he jumped up two ranks in less than two years!!! I state this cause in the Active Air Force movement for officers is slow. In my AMU (Air Maintenance Unit) we had a prior enlisted Lt (O-2), who waited 5 years before he was promoted to Capt (O-3). In the guard and reserve the promotion rate is wayyyyyy slower due to the fact that guard is paid by the state, and some guys are O-2's for 10 years. And this guy is sporting (O-3) bars in less than 2 years!!!And not only that, but also sporting pilots wings!!!! There is some quick promotion but it is rare. So when the parade ended, I confronted the guy and asked him when he got promoted to officer. He didnt reckognize me at first. When he did he was like "Ohhhh when I joined the guard." I said that is all fine and dandy but what was you actual commissioning date. He acted dumb, didnt say anything for about 10 seconds and said he needed to chat with someone, walking away from me.

Now the point of all this is I think this guy is totally 100% bullshit in his promotion. The major debate I am having is this guy impersonating an officer is a punishable crime under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), regardless if you are active, retired, seperated, etc. Ill prove it here (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-26.htm). I asked some of his fellow firefighters if they knew he was an officer and they replied that he doesnt come around and that he is a "weird guy." I have to admit it really pissed me off to know this guy is sauntering around in a uniform he shouldn't be in. And I have to admit that I want to report this guy. What he is doing is tantamount to someone sauntering around in a police uniform and taking the police car for a ride cause he is in the uniform, yet isnt a cop. But I dont want to be a snitch either, and am afraid that he might hurt someone I know due to the fact that he is my sisters boyfriends roomate. He can be arrested, but released on bail and dont need this guy going after her due to my snitching. But I also know I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, and protecting the United States Air Force against enemies foreign and domestic too. Does not this guy sauntering around in an officers uniform pose a threat?? Can not anyone do it if he can??

I am still friendly with a few guys that I served with and told this one friend who was a Staff Sergeant the whole story. I asked him if I should report the guy. My friends reply was "he should know better than to do that." He also said if I was a friend of the guy, of which I am not (nor am I an enemy either) to tell the guy "you know better than to do that shit. Dont do it again." Or I could just call up OSI and they will take care of it. I have video proof of this guy in officers uniform due to another family friend. And my former Air Force bud tells me that our duty extends beyond our enlistment obligations, especially when it comes to masquarading around as ranks that we are not, nor have we earned. And before anyone debates and says "maybe he got accelerated" the only way that is going to happen is if his last name is Bush or Cheney.

So I pose the question again. Having stated all these facts, do I call up the Office of Special Investigation and let them tell me I am right or wrong?? Or do I let this thing go, and confront the guy, AGAIN. Mind you all I asked him twice eye to eye, and he wouldnt give me a commissioning date. And a commissioning date is as important to you in the military as knowing your birthday. This guy is committing a major, major fucking felony and it is killing me cause I dont want to be a snitch. But I know what that guy did was wrong, and to be honest with you all. HE should know what he did was wrong. So do I call or not??

[A.J.]

If you've confronted him already, then I say report his ass. He's impersonating an officer and that's a serious offence of the UCMJ.

I remember this bouncer friend of mine (ex-SEAL) was working the door one night when he overheard some guy telling a bunch of girls that he was a SEAL. The bouncer/SEAL asks him "you're a SEAL? What class are you?" The guy quietly whispers that he wasn't a SEAL but was only talking some game in front of these girls. The bouncer/SEAL loudly says "don't lie about being a SEAL in front of me" and procedes to call him out in front of everyone.

[moochcassidy]

dont know how things work in the army, but personally, i try to avoid telling on people.

[JPMNICK]

tough situation. one on hand, he is tarnishing the hard work of all the people who rightfully hold that postion. on the other hand, who really gives a shit on a larger scale and why rat on someone else. seriously if i saw this guy dressed like that, I would have no clue what any of the shit he was wearing meant. i would just reconize him as someone who is/has served the country.

this may sound stupid, but how did he get the stuff if that is not really his rank?

[ChrisTheCop]

As I was reading, I was encouraging you to approach the lad and say, "what the fuck?!"

But once I read that youve already tried that route, and he wasnt phased, I say call OSI. You are right morally and legally. He doesnt deserve to wear a uniform he hasnt earned, and you have a responsibility to report him. Just as bad as AJ's fake Seal; they are reaping the benefits of other peoples sweat and blood.

His pretense is bothering you for a reason, Doogie.

Notify OSI and let them do their investigation. If it turns out by some miracle he made Captain, so be it. But if he didnt, he has fucked up royally, and should pay for his sin.

[StupidGirlllll]

I say let it go Tattletail. Sounds like you where just jelous cause you thought of it but didn't go thru with it. It was a parade he was marching in not a war.

[Yerdaddy]

First of all, do they teach you in the Air Force to type such uniform paragraphs? They're a thing of beauty.

Second, if all you saw the guy do was march in a parade with someone else's uniform and you considered doing the same thing but didn't, (not exacly the same, but along the same lines), then odds are that's all he did - march in the parade. There may be a chance that he's reaping other rewards with the uniform but it's unlikely as that would entail much higher risks, no? The fact that you recognized him probably led him to think, when he was taking the uniform off at the end of the day, that it's not safe to parade around, (FUNK IT TO ME!), in someone else's uniform and he's even less likely to do it.

Obviously the guy's a tool. And not too bright. But probably the only thing he gained was maybe a kiss or two from chicks along the parade line. What he risked was a kiss or two from a big ol cellmate. If he's dumb enough to keep wearing the uniform for its benefits then he'll get caught. If it was a one-off thing then there's no real harm done. If you see him do it again, or hear of him doing it again, then turn him in. Otherwise it's not worth making an enemy about.

[Yerdaddy]

If you've confronted him already, then I say report his ass. He's impersonating an officer and that's a serious offence of the UCMJ.

I remember this bouncer friend of mine (ex-SEAL) was working the door one night when he overheard some guy telling a bunch of girls that he was a SEAL. The bouncer/SEAL asks him "you're a SEAL? What class are you?" The guy quietly whispers that he wasn't a SEAL but was only talking some game in front of these girls. The bouncer/SEAL loudly says "don't lie about being a SEAL in front of me" and procedes to call him out in front of everyone.

Where can I meet this guy who pretends to be a seal? Because I am the walrus.

[A.J.]

I say let it go Tattletail. Sounds like you where just jelous cause you thought of it but didn't go thru with it. It was a parade he was marching in not a war.


I The major debate I am having is this guy impersonating an officer is a punishable crime under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), regardless if you are active, retired, seperated, etc. Ill prove it here (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-26.htm)

And let's remember what forum this was posted in.

[sailor]

First of all, do they teach you in the Air Force to type such uniform paragraphs? They're a thing of beauty.

Second, if all you saw the guy do was march in a parade with someone else's uniform and you considered doing the same thing but didn't, (not exacly the same, but along the same lines), then odds are that's all he did - march in the parade. There may be a chance that he's reaping other rewards with the uniform but it's unlikely as that would entail much higher risks, no? The fact that you recognized him probably led him to think, when he was taking the uniform off at the end of the day, that it's not safe to parade around, (FUNK IT TO ME!), in someone else's uniform and he's even less likely to do it.

Obviously the guy's a tool. And not too bright. But probably the only thing he gained was maybe a kiss or two from chicks along the parade line. What he risked was a kiss or two from a big ol cellmate. If he's dumb enough to keep wearing the uniform for its benefits then he'll get caught. If it was a one-off thing then there's no real harm done. If you see him do it again, or hear of him doing it again, then turn him in. Otherwise it's not worth making an enemy about.

i concur. maybe it's because i never served (i tried to join the navy, oddly enough, but was deemed medically unfit) but his wearing a uniform at a parade doesn't seem that big a deal to me. if he's going around all the time impersonating an officer, sure that's a bad thing, but just the parade doesn't seem so horrible.

[Alice S. Fuzzybutt]

Yes he shouldn't have done it and yes it's a punishable offense, but isn't there a certain camaraderie and brotherhood among Airmen? You confronted him and hopefully that was enough to set him straight.

Do you really want to be THAT guy?

[DonInNC]

The guy is still in? Then yeah, I'd at least report it to his Guard unit.

If he's gotten out and just wearing the uniform for the parade, I'd let it go.

Having been in the Air Force myself, I've caught a lot of people lying about military service for whatever reason. Sometimes they're trying to sound like heroes, other times they're just cooking their resumes. The former I usually ignore, the latter I'm more likely to call out as it can affect other people's careers.

[Midkiff]

This is bogus. He does know he's committing a crime. Everybody in the Air Force is specifically taught that impersonating an officer is a felony. I knew good and well before I ever even got out of basic.

[Doogie]

seriously if i saw this guy dressed like that, I would have no clue what any of the shit he was wearing meant. i would just recognize him as someone who is/has served the country.

this may sound stupid, but how did he get the stuff if that is not really his rank?

And that is the problem. Most people wouldn't know the rank structure nor recognize it if they did see it. And as for buying the bars and what not, it is actually pretty easy if you go to a base who will more than likely have a store to buy uniform parts. I know when I moved up in rank, it was my responsibility to buy the patches themselves. And the parts weren't that expensive, and no one ID's you when you buy parts. They know that we should know better.

if he's going around all the time impersonating an officer, sure that's a bad thing, but just the parade doesn't seem so horrible.

Yes, but he is telling people bullshit. And for what?? Recognition?? He wasn't satisfied with what he did?? My one friend is trying to get in as an officer. He is an honors student, good physical shape, etc. And he is on a long wait list due to how competitive it is. When you join as enlisted, and try to become an officer it is equally as long of a process, as I stated in my long diatribe. The worst part is, this guy did get in trouble in the past in the neighboring department for getting caught stealing from someones purse. He went to the Air Force and everyone thought he straightened himself out. The chances that he got to officer AND THEN got promoted as fast in less than 2 years is extremely unlikely. There is a better chance that three of us in this thread winning with the same lotto numbers than that event to have happened.

[nate1000]

Where can I meet this guy who pretends to be a seal? Because I am the walrus.

Oh, yeah. Well, I am the eggman.
Coo-coo-ca-choo.

[Crispy123]

Borrowing someone elses uniform and impersonating an officer/pilot is something totally different. I would agree with the majority of people and say if it is a one time thing let it go. You did confront him and so you should feel comfortable with yourself morally because you called the guy on his BS.

I like to think of myself as someone who is not a snitch. If someone does me wrong I will take my retribution myself and/or try to mediate with the individual myself. Someone who disgraces/impersonates the uniform of an officer in the USMC or any other branch of DOD is going to get either a. an extremely in-your-face lesson on exactly what they are doing wrong and what will happen if they ever do it again or b. an all out beatdown. I will have no problem with going to the authorities if it ever happens again because it doesn't just hurt me it hurts anyone who has ever worn that uniform and spits in the face of the people who died defending this country.

Just my 2c but I think what you did was right and keep an eye out for this bozo pulling this shit in the future.

[Fat_Sunny]

If You Are Going To Accuse A Person Of Something, You Better Be 100% Sure That The Accusation Is Correct. In This Case, You Are Not 100% Sure. Maybe Bush Or Cheney Did Promote Him. Maybe His Uncle Is A General. At This Point, You Do Not Know With 100% Certainty.

To Wrongly Accuse Someone Of A Crime Or A Transgression Is MUCH Worse Than Wearing A Uniform That You Are Not Entitled To Wear. MUCH.

So F_S Says Bite Your Tongue. If He Does This Type Of Thing More Than Once, The Military Or Karma Will Catch Up With Him.

In Looking At Situations Like Ths, F_S Always Remembers A Hindu Dilema:

Your Walking Down The Road And You See A Little Fire Next To A House.
Within A Few Minutes The Fire Will Reach The House.
Not Far From The House Are Buckets Of Liquid. The Problem Is, The Liquid Could Be Gasoline Or Water.
Do You Throw The Buckets Of Liquid On The Fire?
If You Decide To Do So, You Better Make Damn Sure It Is Water And Not Gasoline!

[Justice4all]

My father was in the military for only 3 years but he was a captain. I wore his bars out of respect for him and other members of the military. But I would NEVER think about impersonating an officer.

I agree with AJ and some others, report him.
If he was lying that is his way of shitting on all the GOOD men and woman who earned that rank honestly and thru hard work. And some have died with that rank.
He is just trying to impress people without having to do the work (like the guy in AJ's story)
But the difference with the guy in the bar...he was just lying with words.
This jerky is parading around like some war-hero.

And what are the odds that he is innocent.
There is nothing wrong with you reporting this. Those people who know you will understand how important this is to you and how YOU are in the right.
Besides....would YOU want a fellow fire fighter to be a known liar? How could you trust he would have your back if you were on a call? You would always be second guessing him.

And as you know Doog...you need to trust the people you serve with. Either in the military or on the department.

Go for it....report him.

[topless_mike]

my 2c, i would swallow this one, but wait for the next event.
if he pulls it again, then nail him.

[Snacks]

dont know how things work in the army, but personally, i try to avoid telling on people.

tough situation. one on hand, he is tarnishing the hard work of all the people who rightfully hold that postion. on the other hand, who really gives a shit on a larger scale and why rat on someone else. seriously if i saw this guy dressed like that, I would have no clue what any of the shit he was wearing meant. i would just reconize him as someone who is/has served the country.

this may sound stupid, but how did he get the stuff if that is not really his rank?

I say let it go Tattletail. Sounds like you where just jelous cause you thought of it but didn't go thru with it. It was a parade he was marching in not a war.

First of all, do they teach you in the Air Force to type such uniform paragraphs? They're a thing of beauty.

Second, if all you saw the guy do was march in a parade with someone else's uniform and you considered doing the same thing but didn't, (not exacly the same, but along the same lines), then odds are that's all he did - march in the parade. There may be a chance that he's reaping other rewards with the uniform but it's unlikely as that would entail much higher risks, no? The fact that you recognized him probably led him to think, when he was taking the uniform off at the end of the day, that it's not safe to parade around, (FUNK IT TO ME!), in someone else's uniform and he's even less likely to do it.

Obviously the guy's a tool. And not too bright. But probably the only thing he gained was maybe a kiss or two from chicks along the parade line. What he risked was a kiss or two from a big ol cellmate. If he's dumb enough to keep wearing the uniform for its benefits then he'll get caught. If it was a one-off thing then there's no real harm done. If you see him do it again, or hear of him doing it again, then turn him in. Otherwise it's not worth making an enemy about.

i concur. maybe it's because i never served (i tried to join the navy, oddly enough, but was deemed medically unfit) but his wearing a uniform at a parade doesn't seem that big a deal to me. if he's going around all the time impersonating an officer, sure that's a bad thing, but just the parade doesn't seem so horrible.

Yes he shouldn't have done it and yes it's a punishable offense, but isn't there a certain camaraderie and brotherhood among Airmen? You confronted him and hopefully that was enough to set him straight.

Do you really want to be THAT guy?

If You Are Going To Accuse A Person Of Something, You Better Be 100% Sure That The Accusation Is Correct. In This Case, You Are Not 100% Sure. Maybe Bush Or Cheney Did Promote Him. Maybe His Uncle Is A General. At This Point, You Do Not Know With 100% Certainty.

To Wrongly Accuse Someone Of A Crime Or A Transgression Is MUCH Worse Than Wearing A Uniform That You Are Not Entitled To Wear. MUCH.

So F_S Says Bite Your Tongue. If He Does This Type Of Thing More Than Once, The Military Or Karma Will Catch Up With Him.

In Looking At Situations Like Ths, F_S Always Remembers A Hindu Dilema:

Your Walking Down The Road And You See A Little Fire Next To A House.
Within A Few Minutes The Fire Will Reach The House.
Not Far From The House Are Buckets Of Liquid. The Problem Is, The Liquid Could Be Gasoline Or Water.
Do You Throw The Buckets Of Liquid On The Fire?
If You Decide To Do So, You Better Make Damn Sure It Is Water And Not Gasoline!

I quoted everyones response who I agree with. So many of you (like me) see that what hes doing may be wrong but to "RAT" on someone is just making an issue over a non issue. People buy/borrow uniforms and wear them as costumes all the time. This guy should know better but without knowing 100% anything then mind your own business.

And to the rest of you who think he should "RAT" the guy out with out knowing anything other then seeing him march. Why has this country become a tattle tale/ snitch society? It seems like getting people in trouble and seeing them go through shit makes others happy. The guy did serve in the Air Force. He may have been given a higher rank for something he did. He may be wearing this uniform in honor of someone he knew and he may be wearing it for the wrong reasons too. It sounds like 2 years ago he had a higher rank then you, maybe he dint leave for FDNY maybe he stayed in and earned those stripes. You dont know so mind you business. It does sound more like jealousy then anything else.

[lleeder]

I think its a little over the top to report him, over a parade. You called him out and made him look like an ass at a parade. What did he really do? March down the street in a county parade. He felt one good day of happiness at a parade. He's not hurting people or using the fake rank to push people around, he's marching in a parade. Let the guy have one lame day at the parade. He marched in a parade. He didn't commendeer someones plane or car, he marched in a parade. A parade, you want a guy to go to jail...over a parade.

[spoon]

Knowing Doog I can assure you it's not jealousy and with my family being of a military backround I can see how this can piss him off. However, I'm with the rest of the majority here in not going to the level of reporting it unless 100% sure. Personally I'd make it a point to get an answer from him on the spot so I could confront him face to face like AJ's bouncer friend. I'd be willing to bet he's lying his ass off and it may not mean much to other people, but it's a code that's being broken and his honor is gone. If it turns out he is out of line I wouldn't necessarily report him, but I'd surely kick his ass.

[Doogie]

I quoted everyones response who I agree with. So many of you (like me) see that what hes doing may be wrong but to "RAT" on someone is just making an issue over a non issue. People buy/borrow uniforms and wear them as costumes all the time. This guy should know better but without knowing 100% anything then mind your own business.

And to the rest of you who think he should "RAT" the guy out with out knowing anything other then seeing him march. Why has this country become a tattle tale/ snitch society? It seems like getting people in trouble and seeing them go through shit makes others happy. The guy did serve in the Air Force. He may have been given a higher rank for something he did. He may be wearing this uniform in honor of someone he knew and he may be wearing it for the wrong reasons too. It sounds like 2 years ago he had a higher rank then you, maybe he dint leave for FDNY maybe he stayed in and earned those stripes. You don't know so mind you business. It does sound more like jealousy then anything else.

I think its a little over the top to report him, over a parade. You called him out and made him look like an ass at a parade. What did he really do? March down the street in a county parade. He felt one good day of happiness at a parade. He's not hurting people or using the fake rank to push people around, he's marching in a parade. Let the guy have one lame day at the parade. He marched in a parade. He didn't commandeer someones plane or car, he marched in a parade. A parade, you want a guy to go to jail...over a parade.

A) It was bars and not stripes. Stripes are what enlisted people have, bars are what officers have. He was wearing bars, and he also was wearing pilot wings. It takes pilots six years of training to earn theirs. Not two. You don't get trained in flight school as an enlistee. He is wearing things that he did not earn. I say that cause LESS than two years ago he was enlisted. You obviously cant read cause I laid out all the details necessary to understand those facts.

B) At that same time we were the same rank, E-3. That is an enlisted rank. Just spelling it out so you can read it. And even when a guy makes E-4 the guy underneath him has no reason to be jealous. The first four ranks on the enlisted side are given out with time.

C) When you know for a fact that someone is one rank when they leave the military and now they are marching around with a uniform that they didn't earn, that is a serious offense.

A lot of you who criticize have not been in the military nor know the rules that apply to it. Anyone who was any rank, officer or enlisted are proud of what they do. Yes it sucks to bust your ass, and work long hours, but you do also build up camaraderie and friendship whilst there, and also as you earn your rank too. For someone to just buy something they didn't earn is problematic.

Many of you see this as jealousy, and that is the problem. As I stated in one example, if a guy is going through NYC in a cop uniform doing things he shouldn't and is found out wouldn't people be outraged?? Especially many of you people. That person may be doing good things, but they didn't earn their uniform. If we were to allow anyone to things like this then we move to anarchy, and should just disband the guys that are in now since anyone can buy a cop uniform and patrol the street.

I honestly wish I could say that it was jealousy cause if there was I would be more like "I cant believe that guy got promoted before me, etc." This guy was out of the service and thanks to a lil info I found out the guy doesn't even have a bachelors degree so there is no way in hell that guy moved up in rank as fast as he did. Let alone be an officer. And that is what we have here. A miscommunication of facts. He is misrepresenting himself, and that is wrong.

I chatted with several guys both ex and current in the military and they said it is impossible. Especially since it is the guard. In the guard movement is very slow. Even when there are casualties within the unit. And that is the problem with all this. Recently there was a Brigadier General wearing purple hearts that he didn't earn. Yes he was retired, but the fact that he didn't earn them got him into serious trouble. Those are reserved for guys that were wounded in battle and that general wasn't wounded.

[mdr55]

Bring the situation to the appropriate sources.

Has the guy done it more than once? (aside from the parade. also are there pictures?). And if he's benefitting from passing himself off as something that he's not, the more reason to report him.

[lleeder]

I don't understand why you quoted me then never directly adressed my valid points. I don't understand what your moral issue is here. You think what he did is wrong. You have your facts to back it up, so report him. I don't see why you didn't immediately run to the nearest phone and report him if you feel so strongly about it. You have so many reasons to report him, whats your reason for not doing so?

[Justice4all]

Knowing Doog I can assure you it's not jealousy and with my family being of a military backround I can see how this can piss him off. However, I'm with the rest of the majority here in not going to the level of reporting it unless 100% sure. Personally I'd make it a point to get an answer from him on the spot so I could confront him face to face like AJ's bouncer friend. I'd be willing to bet he's lying his ass off and it may not mean much to other people, but it's a code that's being broken and his honor is gone. If it turns out he is out of line I wouldn't necessarily report him, but I'd surely kick his ass.

Spoon is right....this is not jealousy at ALL. (Nice call StupidGrl...the name fit that time)
Unless you serve in the military you really do not know the offense that this guy did.


What this guy did was not try to grab a gun and lead people into battle...but it still was an affront to anyone who has served in the military with distinction and had work. He just threw on a uniform and said "OK I look good...now lets go out and falsely impress people"

I can totally understand what Doogie is trying to say. And it is NOT jealousy.



Many of you see this as jealousy, and that is the problem. As I stated in one example, if a guy is going through NYC in a cop uniform doing things he shouldn't and is found out wouldn't people be outraged?? Especially many of you people. That person may be doing good things, but they didn't earn their uniform. If we were to allow anyone to things like this then we move to anarchy, and should just disband the guys that are in now since anyone can buy a cop uniform and patrol the street.

And that was put perfectly.

[ChrisTheCop]

I think its a little over the top to report him, over a parade. You called him out and made him look like an ass at a parade. What did he really do? March down the street in a county parade. He felt one good day of happiness at a parade. He's not hurting people or using the fake rank to push people around, he's marching in a parade. Let the guy have one lame day at the parade. He marched in a parade. He didn't commendeer someones plane or car, he marched in a parade. A parade, you want a guy to go to jail...over a parade.

I don't understand why you quoted me then never directly adressed my valid points. I don't understand what your moral issue is here. You think what he did is wrong. You have your facts to back it up, so report him. I don't see why you didn't immediately run to the nearest phone and report him if you feel so strongly about it. You have so many reasons to report him, whats your reason for not doing so?

Lleeder, I believe he quoted you because it seemed like you were one of the people who didnt get it. Your first quote implies that the guy didnt do much, no harm no foul, and that its silly for someone to go to jail over a parade. But your 2nd post seems to be encouraging Doogie to report the guy.

And for the question in the last sentence of your first post (A parade, you want a guy to go to jail ...over a parade), I say that if the OSI deems it appropriate... YES.

My God, people...we jump all over members here who act like Mods... I think impersonating an officer in the United States fucking Air Force is a slight bit more serious an offense.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

It's clear you ought to think it over a bit, which is what you're doing obviously by posting this thread. I fall more or less in line with CPW3/Spoon/Alice and so on in that I think if the guy was doing it that one time, you would be better off just doing the 'dude, what the fuck' up front. He clearly doesn't deserve to be wearing those bars... and if he does it so much as a second time, wandering around and making a mockery of people who really earned their bars (or stripes, depending on what you're impersonating), then yeah, I'd report him. Whether the higher-ups care enough to do something is another matter... but yeah. Getting to the bottom of this, confronting him about it if it really bothers you a-lot, that should take priority first. But that's just my two cents.

I will say this: years ago, I was thinking of enlisting for the Marines. Talked it over with friends and teachers, explained to the family, met with the RS, all that. Decided it wasn't for me (I'm sure the RS refers to me as 'pussy' and perhaps he's right...). This one guy I knew, mentor sorta...got me as a gift a Marines T-shirt, kind of a going-away present (whether he intended it as a goof or was serious I don't know). By then I had decided not to join up, but I liked the shirt a-lot and added it to my regular laundry. One time while jogging through the park, one guy started saying "Semper Fi" - obviously, it was a Marine. I clammed up. I had no business saying "Semper Fi" back at him, though a part of me really wanted to for the sake of being polite (and let's face it, I felt like an honor-less asshole). I had no right to even pretend right then and there before the real deal for the sake of politeness... Soon as I got home I took the thing off and washed it in the laundry, but I never wore the shirt again. And that was just a T-shirt any old guy could buy at a surplus store. I can't imagine the shame I'd feel if I was wearing an actual uniform I didn't earn. That this guy seems to have no shame makes him a douche in my book.

[A.J.]

I chatted with several guys both ex and current in the military and they said it is impossible. Especially since it is the guard. In the guard movement is very slow. Even when there are casualties within the unit. And that is the problem with all this. Recently there was a Brigadier General wearing purple hearts that he didn't earn. Yes he was retired, but the fact that he didn't earn them got him into serious trouble. Those are reserved for guys that were wounded in battle and that general wasn't wounded.

Good point Doog --- this reminded me of the situation with Admiral Mike Boorda, the former Chief of Naval Operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Michael_Boorda). The press accused him of improperly wearing "V' devices on one of his medals. (V device, for "valor", signifies service in combat.) He assumed he was entitled to do so, even being supported by former CNO Elmo Zumwalt. Ultimately, it was determined he was not entitled to wear the device. This controversy probably drove him to his suicide.

And this is NOT a case of "ratting". All military personnel are expected to report inappropriate behavior as part of their duty: be it something as small as this uniform issue or something as serious as the Abu Ghraib abuses.

[CruelCircus]

Jesus, I can't believe all the relativist reasoning in this thread. "Tattletail" and "snitching"? What are you all, seven? Is this an episode of the Sopranos? Just because YOU don't think it's that bad of a crime doesn't mean it should be ignored.

It doesn't matter in the least that we civilians wouldn't be able to tell the difference. In fact, in some ways that makes the offense more egregious. I find it hard to believe that this is/will be the first and only time this guy pulled this stunt.

Report him. Easy choice.

[CruelCircus]

To Wrongly Accuse Someone Of A Crime Or A Transgression Is MUCH Worse Than Wearing A Uniform That You Are Not Entitled To Wear. MUCH.

What?! Who says? And based on what, exactly?
He'd be reporting to an investigating unit. They'd find out if the guy is an officer or not, and if he is that'd be the end of it.

Do You Throw The Buckets Of Liquid On The Fire?
If You Decide To Do So, You Better Make Damn Sure It Is Water And Not Gasoline!

Hindu's must be stupid, then.
I'd smell the liquid and know if it was gasoline right away.

He can smell that this guy's full of crap, too.

[Yerdaddy]

A) It was bars and not stripes. Stripes are what enlisted people have, bars are what officers have. He was wearing bars, and he also was wearing pilot wings. It takes pilots six years of training to earn theirs. Not two. You don't get trained in flight school as an enlistee. He is wearing things that he did not earn. I say that cause LESS than two years ago he was enlisted. You obviously cant read cause I laid out all the details necessary to understand those facts.

B) At that same time we were the same rank, E-3. That is an enlisted rank. Just spelling it out so you can read it. And even when a guy makes E-4 the guy underneath him has no reason to be jealous. The first four ranks on the enlisted side are given out with time.

C) When you know for a fact that someone is one rank when they leave the military and now they are marching around with a uniform that they didn't earn, that is a serious offense.

A lot of you who criticize have not been in the military nor know the rules that apply to it. Anyone who was any rank, officer or enlisted are proud of what they do. Yes it sucks to bust your ass, and work long hours, but you do also build up camaraderie and friendship whilst there, and also as you earn your rank too. For someone to just buy something they didn't earn is problematic.

Many of you see this as jealousy, and that is the problem. As I stated in one example, if a guy is going through NYC in a cop uniform doing things he shouldn't and is found out wouldn't people be outraged?? Especially many of you people. That person may be doing good things, but they didn't earn their uniform. If we were to allow anyone to things like this then we move to anarchy, and should just disband the guys that are in now since anyone can buy a cop uniform and patrol the street.

I honestly wish I could say that it was jealousy cause if there was I would be more like "I cant believe that guy got promoted before me, etc." This guy was out of the service and thanks to a lil info I found out the guy doesn't even have a bachelors degree so there is no way in hell that guy moved up in rank as fast as he did. Let alone be an officer. And that is what we have here. A miscommunication of facts. He is misrepresenting himself, and that is wrong.

I chatted with several guys both ex and current in the military and they said it is impossible. Especially since it is the guard. In the guard movement is very slow. Even when there are casualties within the unit. And that is the problem with all this. Recently there was a Brigadier General wearing purple hearts that he didn't earn. Yes he was retired, but the fact that he didn't earn them got him into serious trouble. Those are reserved for guys that were wounded in battle and that general wasn't wounded.

For the record I don't think you're jealous, I don't consider it "ratting" (is this 1936?), and I think you should consider my lack of military service when considering my advice.

It's a serious dilema and neither choice would be dishonorable on your part for any reason. If he was doing something more serious than marching in a parade, like collecting officer benefits or lying about his rank on a job interview or bank loan, then the choice would be clear to report him. But most likely he was going to march in this parade, had access to the officer uniform of a brother or friend, and he chose to pretend he was an officer for the parade. I don't think it's a "gateway" crime that starts with a parade and leads to trying to fly a commercial jet for shits and giggles. You also said the guy is linked to you socially and so it could turn out to be something that you have to deal with the guy afterwards if he's looking for payback in some way.

Either choice you make you're not wrong in any way. He is. But to me it doesn't seem like a major offense, (FUNK IT TO ME AGAIN!).

[Doogie]

I think you should consider my lack of military service when considering my advice.

It's a serious dilemma and neither choice would be dishonorable on your part for any reason. If he was doing something more serious than marching in a parade, like collecting officer benefits or lying about his rank on a job interview or bank loan, then the choice would be clear to report him. But most likely he was going to march in this parade, had access to the officer uniform of a brother or friend, and he chose to pretend he was an officer for the parade. I don't think it's a "gateway" crime that starts with a parade and leads to trying to fly a commercial jet for shits and giggles. You also said the guy is linked to you socially and so it could turn out to be something that you have to deal with the guy afterward if he's looking for payback in some way.

Either choice you make you're not wrong in any way. He is. But to me it doesn't seem like a major offense, (FUNK IT TO ME AGAIN!).

If I came across as a "I was in the military and you weren't" type of mentality that wasn't necessarily my aim. And no Yerdaddy I am not just talking about why I quoted this. As I said it wasn't necessarily my aim, but I also did want to inform many of you that there is a code, an etiquette, and laws that apply to service members both current and former. That is why my initial post was so long. I was informing everyone of the facts, or as many as I could get out in one sitting (it took me like 45 mins to type up that first post.)

And the "moral debate" that I had when writing this was one of the thing that many of you addressed. That being the whole "rat" situation. I hate the fact that it will come down to this, but I also feel it is my duty, as my friend the former Staff Sergeant told me, to report him. What is killing me personally is having to report this, cause I do feel terrible about ratting, but it has to be done cause that man didn't earn it. Hell yesterday during the local news there was a report of a Capt in the army who lived by me who died. And that was the deal sealer for me. I immediately called up the local guard base where this guy is apparently a member and reported it. The reason being was that captain who died went through a lot of training and experience, and EARNED those bars. This kid didn't earn it. And that is the bottom line.

Now Yerdaddy was observant enough to notice what I said in the initial post, and that is he is a friend of my sisters boyfriend. He is a friend of my friend, and I seriously risk alienation from them, and hell, possibly from that neighboring fire department (all volunteer here mind you) as well. And mainly cause of the same type of reason these board characters (and I am addressing you Fat Sunny and StupidGrrll. Learn to fucking read before you shoot for criticism!) don't understand. However many of the members of his FD see him as member in name only.

There are rules to wearing a uniform. Yes some people wear it for Halloween, and what am I the fabric police? I cant stop people from doing that. And I know I will hear some criticism for this, but there is little harm in wearing a uniform, for HALLOWEEN. That person is not carrying on that persona once that event is over, nor are they carrying themselves on like that on the streets. Or so we hope. Also most uniform you see at costume parties are the old school BDU's (Battle Dress Uniforms.) So trust me, they aren't wandering onto a base with that, nor without an ID.

And I said before there is a code that even us who are former know and understand. You were who you were in the service and should be proud of that. But don't go promoting yourself as something you weren't. And that is what this person was doing. I heard people on the street saying as this kid was going by "Ohhh he's a captain too..." and that therein is the problem, and hence why I quoted what you said yerdaddy. This guy is riding on the coattails of work that others are doing, and any regular person DON'T know the truth. And repeating for people who cant read: this guy was enlisted less than two years ago. For him to be at the rank of Captain right now is impossible. I had it confirmed by the LIEUTENANT at the local guard base.

In summation the thing was that I needed to do was get the thoughts out there. Something that I can read, and get over the whole concept of "ratting" and realize I have a duty to put an end to this BS. And I thank you guys who recognized that I wasn't 'jealous' but then again you are real people.

[spoon]

I'm gonna talk to my uncle later today and ask him his thoughts on it. Right now he's a LT Colonel in the Army.

[JPMNICK]

i have rethought this and considered doogies postings. I think you should say something. Just because it does not mean a lot to non-military people, it does mean a lot to people in the military. And because of this, you can police yourselves. I kind of equate it to someone applying for a job with a falsifies resume, and then getting the job over you. i guess my new thoughts are it is a small community who needs to look out for themselves. and that is what you are doing

[buzzard]

I absolutely hate quoting others,unless they're movie quotes or dead people.I do however think the many before me said all that I might've offered.You already know what you should do otherwise you wouldn't be in such a conundrum.

[Doogie]

I absolutely hate quoting others,unless they're movie quotes or dead people.I do however think the many before me said all that I might've offered.You already know what you should do otherwise you wouldn't be in such a conundrum.

You are right...its like I said, I just hate being the right. But doing the right thing and being popular are not sometimes a conjoined idea. Everything is in motion. I called OSI, tommorow I am giving them the photo evidence and they will be investigating this matter. Hopefully I wont have to be posting with my name spelt backwards due to my entering the Witness Protection Program.

[ChrisTheCop]

You are right...its like I said, I just hate being the right. But doing the right thing and being popular are not sometimes a conjoined idea. Everything is in motion. I called OSI, tommorow I am giving them the photo evidence and they will be investigating this matter. Hopefully I wont have to be posting with my name spelt backwards due to my entering the Witness Protection Program.

Good job. You did the right thing.

[spoon]

In related news, a bunch of scumbags just got arrested in the city for impersonating officers! I can't find a link right now, but my buddy who is a cop was talking about what he heard and it seems they were going to rob people using the unis.:thumbdown:

[furie]

report him.

[ChrisTheCop]

In related news, a bunch of scumbags just got arrested in the city for impersonating officers! I can't find a link right now, but my buddy who is a cop was talking about what he heard and it seems they were going to rob people using the unis.:thumbdown:

Well, as long as Doogie's crisis is over... here's the link (http://www.1010wins.com/pages/935176.php?contentType=4&contentId=907762)

and another (http://www.wnbc.com/news/14101873/detail.html?dl=headlineclick)

[spoon]

Yaaaaaaaaaaah, they look like cops. Excuse me, can I ax u a question ossifer?

[PapaBear]

Well, as long as Doogie's crisis is over...
As long as we're going there, weird cop impersonator story...

I was in court for one of my various past crimes, and there was a guy ahead of me who was pleading guilty to pulling people over in a Crown Vic with a blue light. The sentence was pretty strange. He got at least a year (it might have been 2 or 3) of house arrest, and 10 years probation. The weird part was that the judge said he was barred from ever owning or driving any large American made car, for life.

[Doogie]

And some people think I was over reacting. And I know someone is going to say "Well that was a parade this is different." Intention to impersonate is an attempt to do something for your benefit. Nothing more. That is why the hammer does have to come down on the simple cases so that the hammer of justice will be much much more brutal on ones like this. I said it once, I said it again, impersonation of a cop SEEMS more severe cause that is something that affects us on a very real, and a very local level. However impersonation of someone who has earned a rank is a crime through and through. It also lowers the publics trust of those in authority. Imagine if these assholes had succeeded. Goddamn.

In a case related to my story, I learned the Rockland County DA is coming down hard on impersonators. And they will take cases involving military impersonation, AFTER the court martial has happened.

[ChrisTheCop]

As long as we're going there, weird cop impersonator story...

I was in court for one of my various past crimes, and there was a guy ahead of me who was pleading guilty to pulling people over in a Crown Vic with a blue light. The sentence was pretty strange. He got at least a year (it might have been 2 or 3) of house arrest, and 10 years probation. The weird part was that the judge said he was barred from ever owning or driving any large American made car, for life.

I read that 5 minutes ago, and I'm still giggling at it.


Hey Doog-- lets go make fun of Canadians. I'm on xbox now.

[CruelCircus]

Please keep us updated, Doogie.

[lleeder]

In a case related to my story, I learned the Rockland County DA is coming down hard on impersonators.

Shit, someone tell Anthony to stop doing Dice.

[Doogie]

Shit, someone tell Anthony to stop doing Dice.

Ok, now that made me loff

[spoon]

What's the news Doog?:banning:

[Doogie]

What's the news Doog?:banning:

As far as I know they are investigating it now. And the worst part is the dope went to a county parade and is photgraphed in several spots too. So when I find out more I will let you all know.