President's Speech 9/13/2007 live comments!

[scottinnj]

Leave your thoughts here as you watch the President's speech. The best reactions should be the immediate reactions of all of you, so I'm curious to see what you all think AS he speaks without time to reflect. I want your gut reaction, whatever it is. Should be interesting.

[scottinnj]

"troop surge is working"


While I believe General Patreous, I believe it is too late and no longer worth it.

[scottinnj]

"anbar province is evidence of improvement"


True, but overall progress is not enough to satisfy me. The central government is too weak and too corrupt. Change out Maliki and I'll listen more.

[Kevin]

If the Prez at anytime during this speech says the sky is falling, we are all fucked!!

[DarkHippie]

No wonder! He's getting his information from jim jones!

[Judge Smails]

Just a nitpick on my part, but I don't ever remember a presidential speech with a reflection in the window behind him. You can see the teleprompter going up over his left shoulder. It's really throwing me off. I think he's got the same people as Ron working for him behind the scenes.

[scottinnj]

"I have accepted Gen. Patreous' recommendations"


I hope it's the whole thing. 5 brigades by july is not enough, that is just the numbers the surge built up. General Patreous was talking about a lot more over the next two years. The Prez better mean that too.

[RogerDornShortHops]

Fricken Democrat politicians will take the opposite stance no matter what Bush says.

[scottinnj]

"our military leaders think we can succeed."

I hope so, I only trust the military now. Dems and Republicans are too political

[DarkHippie]

Fricken Democrat politicians will take the opposite stance no matter what Bush says.

That's cause Bush always says the opposite of reason

[BMoses]

Just a nitpick on my part, but I don't ever remember a presidential speech with a reflection in the window behind him. You can see the teleprompter going up over his left shoulder. It's really throwing me off. I think he's got the same people as Ron working for him behind the scenes.

Brian Williams did say it was the first broadcast of a President's speech in High Def

[epo]

Another 9-11 / Iraq allusion.

I hate this fucker.

[Judge Smails]

Brian Williams did say it was the first broadcast of a President's speech in High Def


Well they need to work on that then.

Or, I might be wrong. I think it might just be a cardboard cut-out of Ted Danson.

[scottinnj]

A lot of rhetroic, and now a sob story about a sob story email from a dead soldier's family.

[BMoses]

Well they need to work on that then.

Or, I might be wrong. I think it might just be a cardboard cut-out of Ted Danson.

My cutout of George Wendt has always given my sound political advise.

[scottinnj]

I don't know, I just think it is all too late. I supported the invasion, but because of WMDs. Once Saddam was captured and we knew there was no WMDs it was time to go.

Iraq has a government and a constitution.


We did what we did, and we are safer for it. Time to go before this turns on us permanently.

[RogerDornShortHops]

That's cause Bush always says the opposite of reason

As when Bush announced the increase in troops, which H. Clinton & Kerry had been calling for and not more than 10 minutes later, came out against that idea. That was my last straw with the Democratic party.

With Sept 11 anniversary just passing and feeling some of those same emotions again, I can't go against a vision of hitting them before we get hit again. It's not that I was totally for going in there, but now that we're there, I have to support the idea of not leaving until there is some sory of order. Seems that a lot of people have forgotten what happens when we let things go (Bombing of the USS Cole). Bill Clinton at one time had Bin Laden in our sights and chose not to fire (was on one of his training camps.

[Bossanova]

Shepard Smith really does look like an alien

[RogerDornShortHops]

Back to the Yankee game.

[waltermitty]

Brian Williams did say it was the first broadcast of a President's speech in High Def

and NBC (not sure about other networks) lost the HD feed halfway through....

[johnniehardrock]

comparities are?

[TooLowBrow]

Back to the Yankee game.

typical white plains republican

[scottinnj]

Democrat Response.


"we are douchebags and pathological liars. But vote for us because we have no reasonable withdrawal plan, and our way guarantees your children will be in the Middle East due to a draft, but never fear! We will find a way to blame the Republicans."

[scottinnj]

As when Bush announced the increase in troops, which H. Clinton & Kerry had been calling for and not more than 10 minutes later, came out against that idea. That was my last straw with the Democratic party.



Yep. Thought the same thing.

Kerry: We need more troops in Iraq for success!

Bush: I'm sending in more troops to get control of Iraq.

Kerry: Sending in more troops will cause a quagmire!

[scottinnj]

comparities are?


Plural for Bushisms.

[johnniehardrock]

Plural for Bushisms.

He also butchered the word formidable

[epo]

Democrat Response.

"we are douchebags and pathological liars. But vote for us because we have no reasonable withdrawal plan, and our way guarantees your children will be in the Middle East due to a draft, but never fear! We will find a way to blame the Republicans."

Bullshit I says!

If the Democrats are guilty of anything, it's not closing the checkbook. But this right wing talking point of "what's your plan?" is udder bullshit. You know what my plan was? Don't get in there in the first place Bush! You might have wanted to chase the terrorists and kill bin Laden!

And it is the Republicans fault. They had the majority across the board when the decision was made to invade a sovereign nation and it was their call. Sure some Dems were dummies for voting for it originally...but it was never their call to begin with.

[scottinnj]

It wouldn't have happened if every Dem voted against it. So its a bipartisan fiasco epo.

[scottinnj]

and if all else failed, and the dems were morally right, they should have stuck to their guns and
f i l l i b u s t e r e d.

[scottinnj]

but as always, the dems stuck their fingers in the air, and the wind was to the right, and they were scared of losing elections, so they voted for the war.

[scottinnj]

But you are right, and have always been right about this epo, so I gotta give you props. We shouldn't have gone in there in the first place.

I was wrong but now I don't want another post withdrawal fiasco that will suck my kids into the next middle east conflagration.

[Midkiff]

Oh, is Cuntface making a speech tonight? I didn't even know. Lemme guess - Iraq (despite facts) is doing great! It's working! Give it time, you'll see! Stay the course!

Fuck that fucking hayseed fuck in his fuck-hole.

[epo]

You are obviously discussing the Iraq War Resolution of 2002. That was based upon Iraq's UN violations...of which Bush didn't wait for Hans Blix to do his fucking job!

If anything the Republican Congress wrote a shitty bill and Bush took advantage of the decision by starting a shitty war. And I know Democrats are evil....and in the severe minority we should have stopped it....but the political reality is we couldn't.

As much as I bag on Hillary Clinton...she explained her position on the vote perfectly in 2003 and how George Jr. totally misused the entire thing.

[epo]

But you are right, and have always been right about this epo, so I gotta give you props. We shouldn't have gone in there in the first place.

I was wrong but now I don't want another post withdrawal fiasco that will suck my kids into the next middle east conflagration.

I agree with you on the fundamental of I want this Middle East shit over and nobody's kids in harms way.

My problem is Bush keeps telling us he's listening to the military....when he's not. How many has he fired that he didn't like their answers? How often does this fucker need to stack the deck in his favor.

I would just like somebody non-partisan with half a fucking brain to figure a way out of this unnecessary mess.

[suggums]

i had no idea, i was cooking dinner at the time and thought he was announcing war with iran

thank god we're not, but this announcement wasnt particularly great. yeah lets wait another year, we'll do so much good in the meanwhile before we start to leave

[epo]

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[Recyclerz]

When I post in the political forum I usually make an effort to try to keep it civil and also try to bring some neglected facts or point of view to the table. I'm not sure how successful I am but I try. But Scott is asking for gut reactions so here is mine.

George W. Bush is a lying, idiotic motherfucking coward. He is a incompetent rich kid who never grew up and has failed at just about every adult task he has been presented, has been bailed out every time because of his family and social class and has taken those artificial "successes" and turned himself into a historic leader in his own mind. He has launched into a vast strategic mistake that has taken the lives of almost 4,000 American heroes, drasticly changed the lives of 27,000 American heroes for the worse by getting them damaged in this fiasco. He has damaged the reputation of this country and has placed us in a strategic mess that will take a generation to fix. He is in over his head in a shitstorm of his own making and lacks the intellectual werewithal and plain guts to admit it even to himself so he hides behind his underlings in a series of desparate and delusional actions that only make the problem worse. And there is no one to bail him (or us) out of this one.

He stinks and I don't like him.

End of rant.

[Judge Smails]

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http://i12.tinypic.com/66kvo76.gif

[Fez4PrezN2008]

When I post in the political forum I usually make an effort to try to keep it civil and also try to bring some neglected facts or point of view to the table. I'm not sure how successful I am but I try. But Scott is asking for gut reactions so here is mine.

George W. Bush is a lying, idiotic motherfucking coward. He is a incompetent rich kid who never grew up and has failed at just about every adult task he has been presented, has been bailed out every time because of his family and social class and has taken those artificial "successes" and turned himself into a historic leader in his own mind. He has launched into a vast strategic mistake that has taken the lives of almost 4,000 American heroes, drasticly changed the lives of 27,000 American heroes for the worse by getting them damaged in this fiasco. He has damaged the reputation of this country and has placed us in a strategic mess that will take a generation to fix. He is in over his head in a shitstorm of his own making and lacks the intellectual werewithal and plain guts to admit it even to himself so he hides behind his underlings in a series of desparate and delusional actions that only make the problem worse. And there is no one to bail him (or us) out of this one.

He stinks and I don't like him.

End of rant.

Don't forget he talks funny too.
All I got to add...

[ralphbxny]

I dont listen to him anymore. I read what you guys say. Keeps my mind right!

[scottinnj]

When I post in the political forum I usually make an effort to try to keep it civil and also try to bring some neglected facts or point of view to the table. I'm not sure how successful I am but I try. But Scott is asking for gut reactions so here is mine.

George W. Bush is a lying, idiotic motherfucking coward. He is a incompetent rich kid who never grew up and has failed at just about every adult task he has been presented, has been bailed out every time because of his family and social class and has taken those artificial "successes" and turned himself into a historic leader in his own mind. He has launched into a vast strategic mistake that has taken the lives of almost 4,000 American heroes, drasticly changed the lives of 27,000 American heroes for the worse by getting them damaged in this fiasco. He has damaged the reputation of this country and has placed us in a strategic mess that will take a generation to fix. He is in over his head in a shitstorm of his own making and lacks the intellectual werewithal and plain guts to admit it even to himself so he hides behind his underlings in a series of desparate and delusional actions that only make the problem worse. And there is no one to bail him (or us) out of this one.

He stinks and I don't like him.

End of rant.

You're gut reaction is right on the money. That is exactly what I was looking for. No worries about being "civil" in this thread....just to each other. The politicians? Bush? Fire away freind.

[scottinnj]

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I laughed so hard dude, you are now my best friend.

I could kiss you.

[scottinnj]

I agree with you on the fundamental of I want this Middle East shit over and nobody's kids in harms way.

My problem is Bush keeps telling us he's listening to the military....when he's not. How many has he fired that he didn't like their answers? How often does this fucker need to stack the deck in his favor.

I would just like somebody non-partisan with half a fucking brain to figure a way out of this unnecessary mess.

Whoever takes over, will have around 90-100,000 troops in Iraq, and by January 09, the next president will be the one that will have to figure out what to do to get out. Hopefully by then, the entire election for president will be based on that. Hopefully the one with the best plan will be the one that wins.

I guess until then, the troops are fucked.

[foodcourtdruide]

but as always, the dems stuck their fingers in the air, and the wind was to the right, and they were scared of losing elections, so they voted for the war.

I agree with this statement, but they were the weaker party. The blame lies with the republicans and particularly the neo-cons. This was a republican war pushed to the point of absurdity by a republican administration. Trying to deflect blame on the democrats is misdirected fingerpointing.

The Democrats response was smart and concise. They didn't just scream out, "We disagree with you Bush!" And even if they did, what's wrong with that? I know that I legitimately disagree with the Bush administrations handling of this war. I think the "surge" was ridiculous, because it was an attempt to put a bandaid on a gaping chest wound, just to give the appearance of healing. Also, I find Bush and Patraeus's denial that the "surge" had little to no impact insulting.

[Yerdaddy]

As when Bush announced the increase in troops, which H. Clinton & Kerry had been calling for and not more than 10 minutes later, came out against that idea. That was my last straw with the Democratic party.

With Sept 11 anniversary just passing and feeling some of those same emotions again, I can't go against a vision of hitting them before we get hit again. It's not that I was totally for going in there, but now that we're there, I have to support the idea of not leaving until there is some sory of order. Seems that a lot of people have forgotten what happens when we let things go (Bombing of the USS Cole). Bill Clinton at one time had Bin Laden in our sights and chose not to fire (was on one of his training camps.

Dems stopped asking for more troops by 2005 when it became politically impossible to get the level of troops necessary to do the job according to military counterinsurgency doctrine. But once sovereignty was handed over to the iraqi government a massive escalation of troops would have to be requested by that gov and it would have looked like a second invasion to the Iraqi people. At that point it was no longer possible and the Dems who had been suggesting it stopped. Bottom line is the previous call for more troops by some dems and some reps, based on the same calls by militaty leaders like Anthony Zinni from before the war, had nothing in common with this year's surge whatsoever. You're just grasping for ways to deflect blame away from the Commander In Chief. Way to go.

[Yerdaddy]

I agree with you on the fundamental of I want this Middle East shit over and nobody's kids in harms way.

My problem is Bush keeps telling us he's listening to the military....when he's not. How many has he fired that he didn't like their answers? How often does this fucker need to stack the deck in his favor.

I would just like somebody non-partisan with half a fucking brain to figure a way out of this unnecessary mess.

He's in third or fourth place among the republican candidates. They have the best man for the job in my opinion, but they hate non-partisan people. I don't know what else to say. We're fucked.

[TooLowBrow]

It's a glass war
'Cause only poor men are dying in the
Gas war
'Cause we know why it was started
It's an ass war
'Cause the president's an asshole
It's an ass war
It's a glass war
It's a gas war
'Cause the starters are all victims of the
Glass war
The slogan men were starters of the
Last war
Now the southern men are starters of the
Glass war

[King Imp]

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Absolute classic! :laugh:


As for the actual speech, as soon as he opened his mouth and we heard what he said, I immediately thought "same old, same old" and basically didn't care. All I kept thinking about was while looking at the picture of his daughters behind him was that Laura must have been quite a looker back in her day because those girls clearly didn't get their looks from dad. Then, when the HD feed cut out midway through the speech I thought, "people still can't even get HD to work properly yet, so how are we expected to get troops out and end a war."

I will say this though. The whole point-counterpoint crap is really pathetic. I guarantee you that if there was a Democrat in office right now and they were the ones who sent troops to Iraq and refused to get them out, the Republicans would be bitching about it. It's really stupid how most of these politicians simply follow the thinking of their party and disregard their own personal feelings or beliefs. And before you say a Dem would never have done this, I will just say this. I can't find the actual quote anymore, but I do recall reading once how Bill Clinton had sent more troops to more wars than any other President in the 20th century. That's neither good, not bad. Just facts.

[Yerdaddy]

And before you say a Dem would never have done this, I will just say this. I can't find the actual quote anymore, but I do recall reading once how Bill Clinton had sent more troops to more wars than any other President in the 20th century. That's neither good, not bad. Just facts.

I gotta ask you to back that last claim up. How is that even possible? Kosovo was his biggest war and we didn't lose a single soldier to hostile action.

[Jujubees2]

As when Bush announced the increase in troops, which H. Clinton & Kerry had been calling for and not more than 10 minutes later, came out against that idea. That was my last straw with the Democratic party.

With Sept 11 anniversary just passing and feeling some of those same emotions again, I can't go against a vision of hitting them before we get hit again. It's not that I was totally for going in there, but now that we're there, I have to support the idea of not leaving until there is some sory of order. Seems that a lot of people have forgotten what happens when we let things go (Bombing of the USS Cole). Bill Clinton at one time had Bin Laden in our sights and chose not to fire (was on one of his training camps.


Please stop drinking the Kool Aid. Sept. 11th and the Iraq war have NOTHING to do with each other.

And George Bush had Bin Laden (remember: Wanted Dead or Alive?) until he decided to pull troops from Afghanistan and start this debacle in Iraq. Not to mention that the Clinton administration was able to track down those responsible for the 1993 attack on the WTC and convict them.

[Grendel_Kahn]

I don't know, I just think it is all too late. I supported the invasion, but because of WMDs. Once Saddam was captured and we knew there was no WMDs it was time to go.

Iraq has a government and a constitution.


We did what we did, and we are safer for it. Time to go before this turns on us permanently.

Wow. Just.......wow. Scottie, I don't know if you are trying to be ironic, or you really are that delusional. We are in no way, by ANYONE'S definition of the word "safer because of it" We invaded a country with barely a military, and absoluutely no economic means to raise one that would constitute a threat to us. Certainly if there was a true threat from Iraq Isreal would have stepped in, as in the first Gulf War. The whole reason George senior went to war in the first place was the threat of Isreal nuking Iraq off the planet.

But I digress.

Iraq has become a breeding ground and training camp for terrorists of the future. If anything we are now helping them in "training " for urban warfare. The prevailing mistake of this war ( and by extension this entire Administration) was hubris. The complete inability to admit mistakes and change direction. WE cannot leave Iraq now. That is not an option except for those who wish to be elected to some office. What Iraq needs is an OVERWHELMING amount of American military.

I know it's tough but it's the truth.

But in reality we had NO BUSINESS GOING IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!:wallbash: Now we are stuck there for the next 50 years. Why? Because the idea of 2 guys kissing somewhere in Kansas was too hard on people. Why? Because abortion is so abhoorent to people in Wyoming that they don't give thoughts to death penalty, gun control or war. I hate those red staters for those things more than anything else in the world.

What should we be focusing on? How about no more outsoursing? How about restoring the 88% of factory jobs that no longer exist in America? How about the 55 billion in hard currancy the Chinese have in warehouses? How about making sure that Americans can live up to the same economic standards we had not 50 years ago? Those are the REAL issues in America. Those are the things that will effect real change.

[A.J.]

Certainly if there was a true threat from Iraq Isreal would have stepped in, as in the first Gulf War. The whole reason George senior went to war in the first place was the threat of Isreal nuking Iraq off the planet.

Huh? Israel did not step in in the First Gulf War. In fact, they showed great restraint in not responding to Saddam's Scud attacks.

And we went to war the first time because of Israel? That's new to me.