Al Sharpton light a match burn his perm

[RAAMONE]

Is he running outta shit to be pissed about...hes telling the vice president of the free world what to do over a picture of a small condederate flag that didnt even belong to cheney. i cant take this guy anymore...

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/cheney-hunts-sharpton-fumes/20071030074509990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

"Although a heavy police presence kept the media and curious local residents at a distance, Cheney's visit did stir up a bit of controversy when a New York Daily News photographer snapped a picture of a small Confederate flag hanging inside a garage on the hunt club property.

The photo was shown to New York City civil rights activist, the Rev. Al Sharpton, who issued a statement demanding that the vice president "leave immediately, denounce the club and apologize for going to a club that represents lynching, hate and murder to black people."

comments?

[TheMojoPin]

I wish he'd renounce hunting just so nobody else gets shot in the face.

[led37zep]

I refuse to take this man seriously.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/mwhaught/2005-03-15/8ac2.jpg

[Dougie Brootal]

I refuse to take this man seriously.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/mwhaught/2005-03-15/8ac2.jpg

i second that!:clap:

[boobieman]

i second that!:clap:

Lamont really gained some weight...I guess the junk business is going good.


SEE YAAAYAAAYAAA:smoke:

[PapaBear]

It would help if people stopped paying attention to him.

[TheMojoPin]

I refuse to take this man seriously.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/mwhaught/2005-03-15/8ac2.jpg

What did he win the bronze medal for?

[Dougie Brootal]

What did he win the bronze medal for?

i dont know. the only athletic things he can do are stretching the truth, jumping to conclusions, running in circles and putting his foot in his mouth.

edit: o yeah, and waving his index finger.

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't know why everyone is mad at him. He's just doing what he's always done. I'm annoyed at the media (specificially cable news/tabloid newspapers) for granting him the spokesperson for outrage. Welcome to the future everyone, the media must polarize each issue, resulting in clowns like Sharpton having more influence than their logical/rational counterparts.

[DonInNC]

Car loans cheap

http://www.zentastic.com/images/200512071504-pix1.jpg

[Dash77]

I wish he would denounce being black and go away

[lleeder]

Is he running outta shit to be pissed about...hes telling the vice president of the free world what to do over a picture of a small condederate flag

If he has a problem with the condederate flag I couldn't agree with him more. I mean fuck that condederate flag. I ain't a condederate and I don't support condederates. If you like condederates then go start your own condederate country. The only good condederate is dead condederate.

[NortonRules]

I wish he'd renounce hunting just so nobody else gets shot in the face.

Complete hack.

[epo]

So let me get this right: Dick Cheney goes hunting at a private club which hangs a Confederate Flag on it's grounds.....and Al Sharpton is the asshole? That's rich.

Link to Flag picture here. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/29/2007-10-29_sharpton_chides_cheney_over_confederate_.html)

This is the quote from the NY Daily News article (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/29/2007-10-29_sharpton_chides_cheney_over_confederate_.html)t hat worries me:

Club officials threatened a reporter with arrest when he sought comment.

That should concern us all. Last time I checked, we had a free press.

[epo]

It would help if people stopped paying attention to him.

It would also help if stupid white people stopped doing racist shit. Until then, you are stuck with Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson or some new version of them.

[zildjian361]

I refuse to take this man seriously.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/mwhaught/2005-03-15/8ac2.jpg

who does.

[Tenbatsuzen]

who does.

MSNBC and CBS Radio, for one..

[Hottub]

MSNBC and CBS Radio, for one..

Precisely why they are going down the shitter. Look it up.

[torker]

who does.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/13/brawley.verdict.02/pagones.reporters.jpg

[Kevin]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/13/brawley.verdict.02/pagones.reporters.jpg

Wow did Erick McCormick gain alot of weight..

[led37zep]

Jabba the Race baiter?

http://www.vestnik.com/issues/2001/0619/images/sharpton.jpg

[epo]

Jabba the Race baiter?

http://www.vestnik.com/issues/2001/0619/images/sharpton.jpg

So he hung the flag in the private hunting club?

Come on man...think about it.

[zildjian361]

MSNBC and CBS Radio, for one..

you were only jokeing:laugh:

[Yerdaddy]

You can't be called "vice president of the free world" when you've made the freest country on earth guilty of torture, secret renditions, extrajudicial spying on its own citizens, wars of aggression, historic levels of government secrecy, widespread corruption in administering its occupied territories... and shot a man in the face with a shotgun. He's just the vice president of the United States.

[suggums]

So let me get this right: Dick Cheney goes hunting at a private club which hangs a Confederate Flag on it's grounds.....and Al Sharpton is the asshole? That's rich.

Link to Flag picture here. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/29/2007-10-29_sharpton_chides_cheney_over_confederate_.html)

This is the quote from the NY Daily News article (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/29/2007-10-29_sharpton_chides_cheney_over_confederate_.html)t hat worries me:

Club officials threatened a reporter with arrest when he sought comment.

That should concern us all. Last time I checked, we had a free press.

i agree with you on the press thing, that shit pisses me off.

however, you have been to the south right? i garauntee theres been lots of vice-presidents making an appearance in businesses or homes where that flag hangs proud. i dont agree with it in any way, but admit its still fuckin prevalent in lots of this country. oh well i aint shitting a brick, this is maybe the least of the vice-prez's offenses

[TheMojoPin]

Complete hack.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I stumble into the aternate world where the VP DIDN'T shoot an old man in the face while hunting? I suppose if I said I wished he just "fell into a big bucket of AIDS" or that I wanted to "give him a tussle" it would have been high-larious and not at all schticky.

[suggums]

Oh, I'm sorry....it would have been high-larious and not at all schticky.

would it?

[conman823]

So let me get this right: Dick Cheney goes hunting at a private club which hangs a Confederate Flag on it's grounds.....and Al Sharpton is the asshole? That's rich.


Club officials threatened a reporter with arrest when he sought comment.

That should concern us all. Last time I checked, we had a free press.

Private property shouldn't be respected? Maybe free press should be able to climb into peoples homes and take pictures of them?

Whats rich is how this is even an issue, people who continue to put meaning behing symbols and words should concern us. Shit like that is why Religious wars never end, cause people can't just say it ain't worth it.

[epo]

Private property shouldn't be respected? Maybe free press should be able to climb into peoples homes and take pictures of them?

Whats rich is how this is even an issue, people who continue to put meaning behing symbols and words should concern us. Shit like that is why Religious wars never end, cause people can't just say it ain't worth it.

So the Vice President of the United States hanging out at a private club that hangs the Confederate Flag isn't a problem for you? The symbolism isn't a big deal?

[A.J.]

Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club in Dutchess County, about 70 miles north of New York City....a small Confederate flag hanging inside a garage on the hunt club property.


What the hell is a Confederate flag doing in upstate New York?

Maybe Cheney should have taken Sharpton hunting and had another one of his "accidents".

[Crispy123]

So the Vice President of the United States hanging out at a private club that hangs the Confederate Flag isn't a problem for you? The symbolism isn't a big deal?

As much stuff as there is to be outraged about from the administration in general and the VP in particular, the display of the confederate flag by someone else, for gods sake, is nothing. Its like riding shotgun with someone flying a Rockies banner on their car. It doesn't matter, they lost, who cares??? It is a part of our nations history and some people collect historic shit. No big woop.

[RoyMunson]

It would also help if stupid white people stopped doing racist shit. Until then, you are stuck with Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson or some new version of them.

WAIT!!!! Where does the "racist shit" come into play?

[RAAMONE]

So the Vice President of the United States hanging out at a private club that hangs the Confederate Flag isn't a problem for you? The symbolism isn't a big deal?

the whole point is (as CPW3 said) is that it wasnt his. he is trying to boss around one of the most powerful people in the country because he wanted to go hunting and some guy happened to have a old flag up in a garage. and no, a confederate flag isnt always a sign of racism...many people hang them because they are just simply from the south as do many black people....if you've ever seen any videos from southern rappers they also display this flag in they're videos, does that mean they hate themselves? i think david banner has a video where he is actually wearing the flag. lets say you were invited over to anthonys house to play poker...would you refuse to go because he has nazi shit everywhere because of course that obviously makes him a jew hater and you dont want to be associated with that. by the way i am not racist at all, i am just sick of sharpton trying to find new stupid reasons to get back in the news

[epo]

the whole point is (as CPW3 said) is that it wasnt his. he is trying to boss around one of the most powerful people in the country because he wanted to go hunting and some guy happened to have a old flag up in a garage. and no, a confederate flag isnt always a sign of racism...many people hang them because they are just simply from the south as do many black people....if you've ever seen any videos from southern rappers they also display this flag in they're videos, does that mean they hate themselves? i think david banner has a video where he is actually wearing the flag. lets say you were invited over to anthonys house to play poker...would you refuse to go because he has nazi shit everywhere because of course that obviously makes him a jew hater and you dont want to be associated with that. by the way i am not racist at all, i am just sick of sharpton trying to find new stupid reasons to get back in the news

Here is the deal. Dick Cheney is the Vice President of the most powerful nation in the world. He is a leader, whether I or he like it. With this position of leadership comes responsibility & scrutiny.

If you think somebody in Cheney's secret service unit didn't see that flag you are naive at best. It is the responsibility of a man such as Dick Cheney to set the moral expectation amongst his people. He therefore has set the bar low enough culturally so that his secret service unit in their pre-security visit didn't make the removal of the flag an issue. It clearly should be.

Hence Cheney is guilty at the least of being a social asshole. At worst, condoning racism.

As for the "confederate flag" isn't a racist symbol shit, you can just stop. Much of this nation sees that symbol as racist, such as much of the world sees the swastika a symbol of hate. The club has the right to display either, but don't be surprised when people reject the club & the symbol.

[DonInNC]

As much stuff as there is to be outraged about from the administration in general and the VP in particular, the display of the confederate flag by someone else, for gods sake, is nothing.


Exactly.

[badmonkey]

The flag appears to be displayed in the garage of a private home.
I had a ThereIsNoRadio logo painted on the wall of my garage. This does not mean my neighbors support internet radio.

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/30/alg_cheneyflag.jpg

I wanna see a picture of the confederate flag prominantly displayed somewhere on the club property, like on a pole 50ft in the air underneath the American flag, over the doorway to the club, somewhere inside the lobby of the club, on the club flyers, etc. to prove it. Some reporter saw the open garage and flag, came in his pants as he snapped the picture and the non-story got published.

Yesterday, I was doing some last minute shopping for Halloween with my wife and kids at one of those big-ass costume store places. A little boy around 3yrs old walked up to my 3yr old daughter several times and shook her hand. He even gave her a hug once. We thought it was really funny and my wife made comments about it to his mother, who responded every time by glaring at us. At first we thought maybe she was just annoyed that her kid was walking away from her, but later on the little boy was over by us again and his mother's friend or relative ran over to us and grabbed him and scolded him yelling "You stay away from little white girls!" It hadn't occured to us at the time to freak out that our daughter interacting with a little black boy. That woman may have just been the person that taught my daughter that there is a difference between people based on the color of their skin and that she shouldn't associate with others based on that difference. The racist bitch should lose her source of income, be forced to publicy apologize to me and my family, and pay us a couple of hundred thousand for colorizing people for my daughter.

Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist.

Badmonkey

[Dougie Brootal]

The flag appears to be displayed in the garage of a private home.
I had a ThereIsNoRadio logo painted on the wall of my garage. This does not mean my neighbors support internet radio.

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/30/alg_cheneyflag.jpg

I wanna see a picture of the confederate flag prominantly displayed somewhere on the club property, like on a pole 50ft in the air underneath the American flag, over the doorway to the club, somewhere inside the lobby of the club, on the club flyers, etc. to prove it. Some reporter saw the open garage and flag, came in his pants as he snapped the picture and the non-story got published.

Yesterday, I was doing some last minute shopping for Halloween with my wife and kids at one of those big-ass costume store places. A little boy around 3yrs old walked up to my 3yr old daughter several times and shook her hand. He even gave her a hug once. We thought it was really funny and my wife made comments about it to his mother, who responded every time by glaring at us. At first we thought maybe she was just annoyed that her kid was walking away from her, but later on the little boy was over by us again and his mother's friend or relative ran over to us and grabbed him and scolded him yelling "You stay away from little white girls!" It hadn't occured to us at the time to freak out that our daughter interacting with a little black boy. That woman may have just been the person that taught my daughter that there is a difference between people based on the color of their skin and that she shouldn't associate with others based on that difference. The racist bitch should lose her source of income, be forced to publicy apologize to me and my family, and pay us a couple of hundred thousand for colorizing people for my daughter.

Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist.

Badmonkey

you are right on the fucking money with everything you just posted badmonkey! i applaud you!:clap:

[TheMojoPin]

Maybe Cheney should have taken Sharpton hunting and had another one of his "accidents".

Can it be a double barrelled shotgun? That way one barrel still works, but then the other backfires, a la Bugs Bunny plugging it with his finger. Everyone wins! And then we all do a barrel roll to celebrate!

But yeah, this whole thing is pretty pointless. Sharpton was bored, smelled a big a target, blah-blah-blah.

[TheMojoPin]

Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist.

Nobody was making that argument here. Nice spin, though.

[badmonkey]

Nobody was making that argument here. Nice spin, though.

That's why the republican party and Bush administration pay me the big bucks. I make sure to put out any public relations fires that happen at ronfez.net before they get out of control and ruin their political careers.

The "Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist" was related to the story I posted that you probably didn't read. It was the 3rd paragraph, right above the line that said "Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist". The point of the story was that there's an awful lot of "look at the racist white people!" stories going on in the news right now and that happened to me just yesterday. If I had said "keep that little N away from my daughter", there'd have been a lawsuit and Sharpton would have been here leading a protest.

You look too hard for spin. Nice try tho. Thanks for playing. Seriously, there is no need to try and read into things I say. I'm really not part of the conspiracy. I say what I mean and I say it in fairly plain english. There's nothing to examine or translate. There is the occasional bit of sarcasm that should maybe be spelled out a little more clearly. Maybe I'll use italics from now on for that. You did seem to ignore every other part of my post except for that one line tho. How strange. Do you not notice all the personal gear in that garage that would indicate it being a private residence? It's right there in the picture I posted from the link that epo posted. That part of my post probably wasn't relevant. Hmm... how about the fact that there's no pictures available anywhere of a confederate flag being flown on display anywhere on the club land in plain view or with a club building visible in the background?

You also don't seem to have an issue at all with my daughter, who is being raised to not be a racist bitch, being on the receiving end of racism at age 3 by a racist bitch. Is that because said racist bitch was black and my 3yr old daughter has been oppressing black people for 200 years?

Give me a fucking break.


Badmonkey

[epo]

The flag appears to be displayed in the garage of a private home.I had a ThereIsNoRadio logo painted on the wall of my garage. This does not mean my neighbors support internet radio.

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2007/10/30/alg_cheneyflag.jpg

I wanna see a picture of the confederate flag prominantly displayed somewhere on the club property, like on a pole 50ft in the air underneath the American flag, over the doorway to the club, somewhere inside the lobby of the club, on the club flyers, etc. to prove it. Some reporter saw the open garage and flag, came in his pants as he snapped the picture and the non-story got published.

Yesterday, I was doing some last minute shopping for Halloween with my wife and kids at one of those big-ass costume store places. A little boy around 3yrs old walked up to my 3yr old daughter several times and shook her hand. He even gave her a hug once. We thought it was really funny and my wife made comments about it to his mother, who responded every time by glaring at us. At first we thought maybe she was just annoyed that her kid was walking away from her, but later on the little boy was over by us again and his mother's friend or relative ran over to us and grabbed him and scolded him yelling "You stay away from little white girls!" It hadn't occured to us at the time to freak out that our daughter interacting with a little black boy. That woman may have just been the person that taught my daughter that there is a difference between people based on the color of their skin and that she shouldn't associate with others based on that difference. The racist bitch should lose her source of income, be forced to publicy apologize to me and my family, and pay us a couple of hundred thousand for colorizing people for my daughter.

Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist.

Badmonkey

The flag is displayed on the grounds of the hunting club, not in a private dwelling...hence the reason for the uproar.

As for the rest of your non-sequitor, the point is not what various individuals do (albeit wrong & racist), the point of the discussion is about the Vice President of the United States. Nice attempt at shifting the dialogue.

[Yerdaddy]

That's why the republican party and Bush administration pay me the big bucks. I make sure to put out any public relations fires that happen at ronfez.net before they get out of control and ruin their political careers.

The "Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist" was related to the story I posted that you probably didn't read. It was the 3rd paragraph, right above the line that said "Oh... nevermind... only white people can be racist". The point of the story was that there's an awful lot of "look at the racist white people!" stories going on in the news right now and that happened to me just yesterday. If I had said "keep that little N away from my daughter", there'd have been a lawsuit and Sharpton would have been here leading a protest.

You look too hard for spin. Nice try tho. Thanks for playing. Seriously, there is no need to try and read into things I say. I'm really not part of the conspiracy. I say what I mean and I say it in fairly plain english. There's nothing to examine or translate. There is the occasional bit of sarcasm that should maybe be spelled out a little more clearly. Maybe I'll use italics from now on for that. You did seem to ignore every other part of my post except for that one line tho. How strange. Do you not notice all the personal gear in that garage that would indicate it being a private residence? It's right there in the picture I posted from the link that epo posted. That part of my post probably wasn't relevant. Hmm... how about the fact that there's no pictures available anywhere of a confederate flag being flown on display anywhere on the club land in plain view or with a club building visible in the background?

You also don't seem to have an issue at all with my daughter, who is being raised to not be a racist bitch, being on the receiving end of racism at age 3 by a racist bitch. Is that because said racist bitch was black and my 3yr old daughter has been oppressing black people for 200 years?

Give me a fucking break.


Badmonkey

Good lord! You're seriously propping your daughter up as a straw man to defend Dick Cheney and say blacks can be racists so it's OK for whites? That's just awful.

[Dougie Brootal]

The flag is displayed on the grounds of the hunting club, not in a private dwelling...hence the reason for the uproar.

As for the rest of your non-sequitor, the point is not what various individuals do (albeit wrong & racist), the point of the discussion is about the Vice President of the United States. Nice attempt at shifting the dialogue.

looks to me that the "grounds of the hunting club" are in some assholes garage. nice attempt at..... something!!

[epo]

looks to me that the "grounds of the hunting club" are in some assholes garage. nice attempt at..... something!!

From the original article (http://news.aol.com/story/_a/cheney-hunts-sharpton-fumes/20071030074509990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001): "Although a heavy police presence kept the media and curious local residents at a distance, Cheney's visit did stir up a bit of controversy when a New York Daily News photographer snapped a picture of a small Confederate flag hanging inside a garage on the hunt club property."

This means that the Secret Service would have swept this area. There is no excuse for Cheney in this case. None.

[badmonkey]

Good lord! You're seriously propping your daughter up as a straw man to defend Dick Cheney and say blacks can be racists so it's OK for whites? That's just awful.

Actually, this just seemed like the most relevant place to post the story from yesterday. And damn, talk about twisting shit around. I didnt say it was OK for white people to be racist. I said I wasn't raising my daughter to be a racist and I didn't appreciate a black woman schooling her on the fact that we should be segregated.

You really are an idiot.

Badmonkey

[Yerdaddy]

Actually, this just seemed like the most relevant place to post the story from yesterday. And damn, talk about twisting shit around. I didnt say it was OK for white people to be racist. I said I wasn't raising my daughter to be a racist and I didn't appreciate a black woman schooling her on the fact that we should be segregated.

You really are an idiot.

Badmonkey

How was it relevant other than the way I described? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't relevant. But when Mojo tried to keep to the topic you said "you don't care about my daughter!" instead of sticking to the issue. That's why you brought her into this in the first place and it's just pathetic on so many levels.

[badmonkey]

How was it relevant other than the way I described? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't relevant. But when Mojo tried to keep to the topic you said "you don't care about my daughter!" instead of sticking to the issue. That's why you brought her into this in the first place and it's just pathetic on so many levels.

Fine...If that's what you beleive then maybe somebody can move my posts to the Dog is a racist or some other whitey is a racist thread where it will not be seen as defense of Cheney. It is interesting tho how much outrage you seem to have when non-whites are treated unfairly and how everything is racism, yet you seem to have absolutely zero issue with a woman snatching her 3 yr old away from another child for no reason other than the color of their skin, which makes you a hypocrite. I wasn't trying to change the subject. I was making a point and that point is that all this bullshit fake racism crap that's going on everywhere trying to replace Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. with racist hacks like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson is making things worse than I have ever seen them in my lifetime. I probably don't need to remind you that I grew up in the south.

Thanks again...

Badmonkey

[TheMojoPin]

BM, nobody is defending what that woman said. Yes, I read the sotyr the first time around, and I still stick to calling it spin because it had nothing to do with the main issue of this thread. What she said to her child is stupid and ignornat, and if the same thing was said in a work environment or if she was a public figure and got "busted" saying it, she would deserve all the scorn and criticism and whatnot. But that said, she's NOT a public figure...she's just a random stupid person you, and all of us, encounter too many times in our lives, that, sadly, we typically can do nothing about, no matter what color they are. It has nothing to do with this Dog guy going on an insanely racist rant (which can't be defended in any way) or this non-story about Cheney going to a hunting club where there's a Stars 'n' Bars in the corner. That's where the "spin" part comes in...it has zero to do with the main topic of this thread and it creates a false argument that nobody was making in the first place. Nobody was saying only white people can be racist or that black people can't be racist...the point was public figures potentially getting into "racist" or racially charged situations. Personally, I think the flag is in poor taste, but it's nowhere near the major issue that Sharpton and others want it to be. That said, the story of you and your daughter's encounter with this woman has absolutely nothing to do with and isn't applicable "for" or "against" it. It's also an intellectual fallacy for you to toss that out there as if it "proves" anyone wrong or that people calling you on your non-argument "don't care" about what she said or think that it was OK. The long and short of it is that you're making things up (the irrelevant and non-existent arguments, not what happened to you and your daughter) to distract from the topic at hand. That's spin.

[badmonkey]

So you're saying I derailed from the topic of "Cheney should apologize for being at a racist gunclub" by mentioning my own experience with racism that happened yesterday? Maybe I should have started my own thread or something, but I looked at the forum and basically picked one of the whitey is a racist threads and added to it.

Now... to put my comments "back on topic". Just so you all can know wtf you're talking about when it comes to these flags.

This is the first confederate national flag aka "the stars and bars":
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/CSA_FLAG_4.3.1861-21.5.1861.svg/200px-CSA_FLAG_4.3.1861-21.5.1861.svg.png

This is the second confederate national flag:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mai_1_1863_to_Mar_ 4_1865.svg/200px-Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mai_1_1863_to_Mar_ 4_1865.svg.png

And the third confederate national flag:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mar_4_1865.svg/250px-Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mar_4_1865.svg.png

This is the confederate battle flag:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg/200px-Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg.png

This is the first confederate navy jack:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Jack_of_the_CSA_Navy_1861_1863.svg/150px-Jack_of_the_CSA_Navy_1861_1863.svg.png

This is the confederate navy jack:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Conf_Navy_Jack_%28light_blue%29.svg/275px-Conf_Navy_Jack_%28light_blue%29.svg.png

This is the current "The Confederate Flag" that most people refer to but it never actually flew in the south as a representation of the confederacy as a nation:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Confederate_Navy_Jack.svg/275px-Confederate_Navy_Jack.svg.png

The Bonnie Blue was the flag of the Republic of West Florida which was raised over the capitol building in Jackson when Mississippi seceded from the Union, :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Bonnieblue.svg/250px-Bonnieblue.svg.png

Now that you have an actual frame of reference for some of the confederate flags, do any of these flags look familiar and should we protest the use of these symbols of racism and treason on American soil? Maybe we can stop assuming that EVERYTHING is racist and start moving into the colorblind society that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. dreamed about.

Alabama:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Alabama.svg/120px-Flag_of_Alabama.svg.png

Arkansas:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Flag_of_Arkansas.svg/120px-Flag_of_Arkansas.svg.png
California:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Flag_of_California.svg/120px-Flag_of_California.svg.png

Florida:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Flag_of_Florida.svg/120px-Flag_of_Florida.svg.png

Georgia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29.svg/120px-Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29.svg.png

Iowa:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Flag_of_Iowa.svg/120px-Flag_of_Iowa.svg.png

Missouri:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Flag_of_Missouri.svg/120px-Flag_of_Missouri.svg.png

Mississippi:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Flag_of_Mississippi.svg/120px-Flag_of_Mississippi.svg.png

Nevada:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag_of_Nevada.svg/120px-Flag_of_Nevada.svg.png

North Carolina:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Flag_of_North_Carolina.svg/120px-Flag_of_North_Carolina.svg.png

Tennesee:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Flag_of_Tennessee.svg/120px-Flag_of_Tennessee.svg.png

Rhode Island:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg/120px-Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg.png


Hawaii: the flag of the motherland in our state flag... painful memories
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Flag_of_Hawaii.svg/120px-Flag_of_Hawaii.svg.png

[Dougie Brootal]

So you're saying I derailed from the topic of "Cheney should apologize for being at a racist gunclub" by mentioning my own experience with racism that happened yesterday? Maybe I should have started my own thread or something, but I looked at the forum and basically picked one of the whitey is a racist threads and added to it.

Now... to put my comments "back on topic". Just so you all can know wtf you're talking about when it comes to these flags.

This is the first confederate national flag aka "the stars and bars":
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/CSA_FLAG_4.3.1861-21.5.1861.svg/200px-CSA_FLAG_4.3.1861-21.5.1861.svg.png

This is the second confederate national flag:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mai_1_1863_to_Mar_ 4_1865.svg/200px-Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mai_1_1863_to_Mar_ 4_1865.svg.png

And the third confederate national flag:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mar_4_1865.svg/250px-Confederate_National_Flag_since_Mar_4_1865.svg.png

This is the confederate battle flag:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg/200px-Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg.png

This is the first confederate navy jack:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Jack_of_the_CSA_Navy_1861_1863.svg/150px-Jack_of_the_CSA_Navy_1861_1863.svg.png

This is the confederate navy jack:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Conf_Navy_Jack_%28light_blue%29.svg/275px-Conf_Navy_Jack_%28light_blue%29.svg.png

This is the current "The Confederate Flag" that most people refer to but it never actually flew in the south as a representation of the confederacy as a nation:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Confederate_Navy_Jack.svg/275px-Confederate_Navy_Jack.svg.png

The Bonnie Blue was the flag of the Republic of West Florida which was raised over the capitol building in Jackson when Mississippi seceded from the Union, :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Bonnieblue.svg/250px-Bonnieblue.svg.png

Now that you have an actual frame of reference for some of the confederate flags, do any of these flags look familiar and should we protest the use of these symbols of racism and treason on American soil? Maybe we can stop assuming that EVERYTHING is racist and start moving into the colorblind society that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. dreamed about.

Alabama:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Flag_of_Alabama.svg/120px-Flag_of_Alabama.svg.png

Arkansas:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Flag_of_Arkansas.svg/120px-Flag_of_Arkansas.svg.png
California:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Flag_of_California.svg/120px-Flag_of_California.svg.png

Florida:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Flag_of_Florida.svg/120px-Flag_of_Florida.svg.png

Georgia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29.svg/120px-Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29.svg.png

Iowa:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Flag_of_Iowa.svg/120px-Flag_of_Iowa.svg.png

Missouri:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Flag_of_Missouri.svg/120px-Flag_of_Missouri.svg.png

Mississippi:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Flag_of_Mississippi.svg/120px-Flag_of_Mississippi.svg.png

Nevada:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag_of_Nevada.svg/120px-Flag_of_Nevada.svg.png

North Carolina:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Flag_of_North_Carolina.svg/120px-Flag_of_North_Carolina.svg.png

Tennesee:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Flag_of_Tennessee.svg/120px-Flag_of_Tennessee.svg.png

Rhode Island:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg/120px-Flag_of_Rhode_Island.svg.png


Hawaii: the flag of the motherland in our state flag... painful memories
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Flag_of_Hawaii.svg/120px-Flag_of_Hawaii.svg.png

so there we have it, that mississippi flag should tell all you guys to shut the fuck up. its obviously not a racism thing. when i was younger i always used to see the bumperstickers that said "heritage, not hate" with a confederate flag. is it racism if during the puerto rican pride parade they fly uerto rican flags? no. its heritage.

[PapaBear]

That "heritage" thing made sense to me until the whole Jena 6 debacle. People started driving around with big Confederate flags flying off the backs of their trucks. If it's about heritage, then why would they fly it more during a race issue than any other day?

[Dougie Brootal]

That "heritage" thing made sense to me until the whole Jena 6 debacle. People started driving around with big Confederate flags flying off the backs of their trucks. If it's about heritage, then why would they fly it more during a race issue than any other day?

well it makes sense if you look at how the media portrays it! they probably do it a)they know itll piss someone off or b)they maybe have always had it and just now people are talking about it.

[TheMojoPin]

So you're saying I derailed from the topic of "Cheney should apologize for being at a racist gunclub"

That wasn't the topic...or at least it wasn't as if you're implying that that was the tone of the entire thread and you had to show up as a dissenting voice. Some people here clearly think it was a bad choice on his part...but a lot of us are and have been saying it's an overreaction.

by mentioning my own experience with racism that happened yesterday? Maybe I should have started my own thread or something, but I looked at the forum and basically picked one of the whitey is a racist threads and added to it.

Yet again you are indicating that you didn't bother to read the read and already had your mind made up before you even posted as to what you wanted to make it about.

Now... to put my comments "back on topic". Just so you all can know wtf you're talking about when it comes to these flags.

Now that you have an actual frame of reference for some of the confederate flags, do any of these flags look familiar and should we protest the use of these symbols of racism and treason on American soil? Maybe we can stop assuming that EVERYTHING is racist and start moving into the colorblind society that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. dreamed about.

Your responses are all over the place, so let me try and flag down one of these randomly flung points. First off, while I completely agree that many so-called "racist" statements and actions are actually just people overreacting or being too sensitive, it's also completely false to dismiss ALL of these reactions as if they have nothing to be based on or aren't framed by a social context that has deeply rooted racism into much of our country's history up until the modern day. Trying to brush off the Confederate flag as "nothing" when it comes to reflecting the many racial tensions that still exist here is just ludicrous.

First of all, the Civil War WAS about slavery. Yes, it was a complex route that got us there, but ultimately the key economic and states' rights issues that pushed us over the edge were hinged on slavery. This flag is representative of the side of our country that was fighting to maintain the institution of slavery. Like it or not, that is always going to be associated with its image historically forever. From that perspective, it's ridiculous to expect people to not get riled when that flag is paraded out in times of racial debate or tension when it's clear why it's being hauled out in the first place.

Now, at the same time, it has also come to represent a historical sense of "southern pride." It has different contexts. So when it's hanging in the corner of some snooty hunting club with nothing else around it indicating it's for the other negative context, it's really not a big deal to me. So people can overreact to seeing it at times...though it shouldn't be a surprise as to why it bothers people. It carries a very, VERY negative context that has existed around it since the day it was created. To just dismiss people not liking it as ALWAYS overreacting or making a big deal out of nothing is essentially demonstrating a completely willful ignorance to part of our history.

[TheMojoPin]

well it makes sense if you look at how the media portrays it! they probably do it a)they know itll piss someone off or b)they maybe have always had it and just now people are talking about it.

See my response to BM. The "media" doesn't have to "portray" it in any way to make the potentially negative and hurtful symbolism of the flag woefully apparent to lots of people. History already does that for us.

[RAAMONE]

if a confederate flag is a sign of racism (which i agree it is used that way sometimes) why do black people use it also as i stated about southern rappers? is it like the N word thing like..fuck you we're gonna use it too?

[badmonkey]

Some semi-random thoughts on the subject:

Considering that the flag that people are upset about is a combination of the battle flag and one of the naval flags and that flag never represented the Confederate nation, could it be that people are upset because somebody told that they should be? There isn't a problem with flags that actually resemble the real "stars and bars".

On tv the other day, they showed some scenes from a Madonna video. I believe the video was "Like a Virgin", but they didn't have audio so I couldn't tell. The video contained burning crosses. Racist?

Nooses are a symbol of hanging and were used for executions for hundreds of years at a minimum. Now they are only a symbol of racism.

If we consider the Confederate Battle Flag to be a symbol of racism because a simliar flag to it flew over the soldiers of the southern states during the civil war who were fighting for dark-skinned cheap labor to maintain their economy. How long until the Democratic donkey is a symbol of racism for their battles for dark-skinned cheap labor to maintain their economy 142 years after the end of the Civil War?

Is it more racist to "keep somebody down" by telling to get up because their race isn't a factor or to tell them that they will never be able to get up on their own because of their race?

[TheMojoPin]

Some semi-random thoughts on the subject:

Considering that the flag that people are upset about is a combination of the battle flag and one of the naval flags and that flag never represented the Confederate nation, could it be that people are upset because somebody told that they should be? There isn't a problem with flags that actually resemble the real "stars and bars".

A large part of it is, as some have mentioned this thread, is the flag's very clear and deliberate use by racists or racial divide-motivated people during the main civil rights conflicts of the 60's. Those images are seared into much of the nation's collective memory, and mostly account for the negative perceptions of the flag today. It was used as a rallying symbol by those who very vocally (and sometimes violently) wanted to keep certain segments of our population as 2nd class citizens...or worse. Does that mean that EVERY use of that flag is for the same reasons? Of course not...I for one highly doubt that's the case with this Cheney non-issue. But it does explain why that flag has come to be such a touchy image for so many people. It's known more for recognizing negative things and people than positive.

On tv the other day, they showed some scenes from a Madonna video. I believe the video was "Like a Virgin", but they didn't have audio so I couldn't tell. The video contained burning crosses. Racist?

What does this have to do with anything we've talked about so far? Are you just going to keep creating tangents?

OK, for one, the context of the video...the entire thing was a statement on race and religion in this country. The burning crosses were a melding of those dramatic issues. Personally, I think the whole thing is clumsily done. But, if you think nobody freaked out, think again...there was a ton of public outcry and she lost her Pepsi endorsement because of it. If you're saying that nobody was bothered by it, you're completely wrong.

Nooses are a symbol of hanging and were used for executions for hundreds of years at a minimum. Now they are only a symbol of racism.

I think this is a stretch and totally your own opinion. Besides, does that mean that you're annoyed about how the cross used to symbolize the thousands of people who were killed by crucifixion and now it's only a symbol of christinaity/Jesus? Of course not. These are both huge leaps of logic.

If we consider the Confederate Battle Flag to be a symbol of racism because it flew over the soldiers of the southern states during the civil war who were fighting for dark-skinned cheap labor to maintain their economy. How long until the Democratic donkey is a symbol of racism for their battles for dark-skinned cheap labor to maintain their economy 142 years after the end of the Civil War?

Now you're just scrambling to be contrary and inflammatory.

Is it more racist to "keep somebody down" by telling to get up because their race isn't a factor or to tell them that they will never be able to get up on their own because of their race?

The reality is that there's a middle ground. To be overly sensitive isn't the solution, but to pretend that everything is "fixed" or we should act like everyone is the same simply isn't realistic.

[badmonkey]

The reality is that there's a middle ground. To be overly sensitive isn't the solution, but to pretend that everything is "fixed" or we should act like everyone is the same simply isn't realistic.

Small children deal with race the way it should be dealt with. They only see other children to play with. Adults are the ones tell the children that the difference in skin tone means anything.

The perception of the flag in the south is not one of racism. It is southern pride, not white pride. It's not polite to come into somebody's home, point at things, and start telling their owner what those things mean to them. People that are not racists don't like being called racists and it is also impolite at best to do so.

Badmonkey

[epo]

so there we have it, that mississippi flag should tell all you guys to shut the fuck up. its obviously not a racism thing. when i was younger i always used to see the bumperstickers that said "heritage, not hate" with a confederate flag. is it racism if during the puerto rican pride parade they fly uerto rican flags? no. its heritage.

The heritage of rebellion in upstate New York? Seriously dude, that is the an awful excuse for Cheney being at the least, a douche.

[Crispy123]

The heritage of rebellion in upstate New York? Seriously dude, that is the an awful excuse for Cheney being at the least, a douche.

Im from Florida and I lived in upstate NY for 4 years, its not that much of a stretch.

[epo]

On tv the other day, they showed some scenes from a Madonna video. I believe the video was "Like a Virgin", but they didn't have audio so I couldn't tell. The video contained burning crosses. Racist?


Alright, I have no idea how a Madonna video has a goddamned thing to do with racism other than to condemn it, but the song was "Like a Prayer".

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/icrUkBaSefs&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/icrUkBaSefs&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[epo]

Im from Florida and I lived in upstate NY for 4 years, its not that much of a stretch.

I didn't know that Sherman overtook upstate NY. I'll change my history book.

Note: Having lived in Florida for a spell (discovering Ron & Ron), it reminds me of every hayseed place I've ever visited.

[Crispy123]

I didn't know that Sherman overtook upstate NY. I'll change my history book.

Note: Having lived in Florida for a spell (discovering Ron & Ron), it reminds me of every hayseed place I've ever visited.

What the fuck are you talking about???

Its not only that NY'ers come down to Florida, sometimes it goes the other way was my point.

I agree the NY/NJ element really hayseeds the place up. I cant stand em.

[epo]

What the fuck are you talking about???

Its not only that NY'ers come down to Florida, sometimes it goes the other way was my point.

I agree the NY/NJ element really hayseeds the place up. I cant stand em.

My point is that here in the Yankee states, the heritage card doesn't play.

[Dougie Brootal]

The heritage of rebellion in upstate New York? Seriously dude, that is the an awful excuse for Cheney being at the least, a douche.

oh jesus! dont misunderstand me cheney is a douche but this is the least of it. this isnt something he did. just an over reaction IMHO by a race baiting piece of shit. like it or not, confederate flags are a part of our heritage. and its not always a racist thing. like another bumper sticker if seen before... its a pic of a confederate flag and a big X from the malcolm x shirts etc. and it says "you wear your X, ill wear mine" it wasnt a race thing and you ALL KNOW IT. SO QUIT BEING DOUCHES AND TRYING TO MAKE IT A RACE THING.

[TheMojoPin]

Small children deal with race the way it should be dealt with. They only see other children to play with. Adults are the ones tell the children that the difference in skin tone means anything.

Yes, "colorless" is the ideal, but that's not how the works nor has it ever worked. A realistic approach is needed to help attempt to move us towards that kind of society. We can't just declare that everyone is the same when the inequalities still exist. No, many of them are not as bad and there's been drastic improvement, but we're pretty far from being able to just hug and say everyone is equal. You can't just declare that everything is fine because reality repeatedly indicates otherwise.

The perception of the flag in the south is not one of racism. It is southern pride, not white pride.

I just explained how the flag has two major contexts. You can't just pretend the racist one doesn't exist. Again, it's not really applicable here, but to continually dismiss any perceptions of that flag beyond "southern power" is ignoring huge parts of our nation's history.

[epo]

like it or not, confederate flags are a part of our heritage. and its not always a racist thing. like another bumper sticker if seen before... its a pic of a confederate flag and a big X from the malcolm x shirts etc. and it says "you wear your X, ill wear mine" it wasnt a race thing and you ALL KNOW IT. SO QUIT BEING DOUCHES AND TRYING TO MAKE IT A RACE THING.


I just explained how the flag has two major contexts. You can't just pretend the racist one doesn't exist. Again, it's not really applicable here, but to continually dismiss any perceptions of that flag beyond "southern power" is ignoring huge parts of our nation's history.

Exactly Mojo. Don't put your head in the sand and claim that it doesn't have racist connotations. Doing so only insults everyones intelligence.

[Yerdaddy]

Some semi-random thoughts on the subject:

Considering that the flag that people are upset about is a combination of the battle flag and one of the naval flags and that flag never represented the Confederate nation, could it be that people are upset because somebody told that they should be? There isn't a problem with flags that actually resemble the real "stars and bars".

On tv the other day, they showed some scenes from a Madonna video. I believe the video was "Like a Virgin", but they didn't have audio so I couldn't tell. The video contained burning crosses. Racist?

Nooses are a symbol of hanging and were used for executions for hundreds of years at a minimum. Now they are only a symbol of racism.

If we consider the Confederate Battle Flag to be a symbol of racism because a simliar flag to it flew over the soldiers of the southern states during the civil war who were fighting for dark-skinned cheap labor to maintain their economy. How long until the Democratic donkey is a symbol of racism for their battles for dark-skinned cheap labor to maintain their economy 142 years after the end of the Civil War?

Is it more racist to "keep somebody down" by telling to get up because their race isn't a factor or to tell them that they will never be able to get up on their own because of their race?

You are now a slavery denier and demonstrated yourself to be a racist. You've misrepresented slavery as "cheap labor" rather than what it was - forced labor and ownership of human beings involuntarily brought to America for that sole purpose - in order to equate it with a less pernicious phenomenon - voluntary immigration in pursuit of economic opportunity, (albeit less well-paid than the general host population).

What Mojo and others have been trying to get through to you is that they accept that while the Confederate battle flag represents "heritage" to some it also in the past and does to this day represent racism to many racist groups and to groups who have been victims of racism in the past and present. What you've done is demonstrated that it represents your own racism and that your arguments about it representing only "heritage" are merely excuses. Those Southerners who fly the flag sincerly as a symbol of their heritage, like those who display the slogan "heritage - not hate", wouldn't at the same time deny that slavery was slavery. You do. I suggest you retract your statement or stop pretending to be one of those people because you disgrace them.

[Crispy123]

My point is that here in the Yankee states, the heritage card doesn't play.

Ill try it again for you one more time...

People from the south sometimes move.

Sometimes they even move to the bright lights of New York.

[TheMojoPin]

You are now a slavery denier and demonstrated yourself to be a racist.

Hold up, sir. We don't need to go that far.

[Dougie Brootal]

whats the matter with white pride?

we have black pride, puerto rican pride, gay pride (right mojo?), italian pride, catholic pride, muslim pride, buddist pride, every other pride in the world but white pride is racism?!? seems a little strange to me.

[Yerdaddy]

Hold up, sir. We don't need to go that far.

When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust was exaggerated, was that an anti-semitic statement? How is that different from characterizing slavery as "dark-skinned cheap labor"?

[A.J.]

whats the matter with white pride?

we have black pride, puerto rican pride, gay pride (right mojo?), italian pride, catholic pride, muslim pride, buddist pride, every other pride in the world but white pride is racism?!? seems a little strange to me.

We need more Charley Pride.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/f0/220px-Charley_Pride.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust was exaggerated, was that an anti-semitic statement? How is that different from characterizing slavery as "dark-skinned cheap labor"?

I thought it was clear that he was busting out the sarcastic hyperbole for dramatic effect. If you cherry pick the statement, sure it sounds bad, but in the context of what he posted, no, it comes across much differently...to me at least. This is just going to degenerate into a flame war if you start calling people out as "racist." Try and keep the debate reasonably civil.

[Yerdaddy]

whats the matter with white pride?

we have black pride, puerto rican pride, gay pride (right mojo?), italian pride, catholic pride, muslim pride, buddist pride, every other pride in the world but white pride is racism?!? seems a little strange to me.

Nobody says you can't have white pride. It's when you express white superiority or anti-black, anti-puerto rican, anti-gay, etc. that you'll get criticized for it. I've never seen a case of widespread condemnation for simply being proud of being white. But then, being as dominant in our culture as white people are I've never felt the need to express pride of being white. I do see the value of expressing pride in minority status for the simple effect of countering the effects of parts of our culture that still tell minorities they are inferior. As an experiment in this difference, try to think of as many pejorative names for whites and then for other races. Which list is shortest and has the least offensive terms?

And if some people fly the confederate flag as an expression of white pride and only pride then it's the fault of all those who've used it to express racial superiority and advocacy of violence and discrimination against non-whites who have made it so that the public interpretation of the flag is in large part a symbol of racism. And if it is primary a symbol of white pride then it is completely inappropriate, and in fact un-American, to have it flown on state buildings or to be incorporated into state flags.

[Dougie Brootal]

Nobody says you can't have white pride. It's when you express white superiority or anti-black, anti-puerto rican, anti-gay, etc. that you'll get criticized for it. I've never seen a case of widespread condemnation for simply being proud of being white. But then, being as dominant in our culture as white people are I've never felt the need to express pride of being white. I do see the value of expressing pride in minority status for the simple effect of countering the effects of parts of our culture that still tell minorities they are inferior. As an experiment in this difference, try to think of as many pejorative names for whites and then for other races. Which list is shortest and has the least offensive terms?

And if some people fly the confederate flag as an expression of white pride and only pride then it's the fault of all those who've used it to express racial superiority and advocacy of violence and discrimination against non-whites who have made it so that the public interpretation of the flag is in large part a symbol of racism. And if it is primary a symbol of white pride then it is completely inappropriate, and in fact un-American, to have it flown on state buildings or to be incorporated into state flags.

check it Gwai-lo! (http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=white)

[Yerdaddy]

I thought it was clear that he was busting out the sarcastic hyperbole for dramatic effect. If you cherry pick the statement, sure it sounds bad, but in the context of what he posted, no, it comes across much differently...to me at least. This is just going to degenerate into a flame war if you start calling people out as "racist." Try and keep the debate reasonably civil.

Come on Mojo. If you put that statement in context of the rest of his posts it's even more likely to be meant literally. Every argument he's made - and he's thrown everything but the kitchen sink at this argument - it all adds up to diminishing the reason people are offended by that flag. Dougrasso has argued about the specific meaning of the flag to specific - totally valid and useful. Everythig BM has said has been meant to diminish America's history of racism against blacks because that is what the flag specifically represents to those who are offended by it. He finally put into specific terms to equate it with something not only benign but specifically advantagious to those he compared to slaves - modern immigrants - in order to distort the record of slavery to something much less bad. How much more literal does it have to be to be labeled racist?

What's the point of glossing over racist posts for the sake of civility? Because you know he's going to come back denying and distorting the issue by accusing me of distorting them like he's done to both of us throughout this thread when it's painfully obvious to all that he's doing the distorting? Sorry Moj, but I don't consider calling racism what it is to be uncivil. It's the opposite. I'm open to being proved wrong, but not to just pretending that that wasn't a blatantly racist thing to say. Sorry.

[Dougie Brootal]

Dougrasso has argued about the specific meaning of the flag to specific - totally valid and useful.

:blushing:

[Yerdaddy]

check it Gwai-lo! (http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=white)

Found 377 results for whites:
Found 639 results for blacks:

Here ya go, Bacon Bits!

[Dougie Brootal]

Here ya go, Bacon Bits!

hahaha

i got 480 results for white and 778 results for black.

[Yerdaddy]

And another thing: I LOVE most of those slurs for whites! In fact, from now on I want to be referred to as a "Milkhead"!

[Yerdaddy]

hahaha

i got 480 results for white and 778 results for black.

Well good for you, Fish-Belly!