the future of film making?

[patsopinion]

question about beowolf

is the future of film making purely 3d characters?
i mean does anyone actually think that this is really a solution?
wtf
i dont plan on seeing this movie at all
esp now that they are thinking that they can rip us off by not giving us actors anymore!
that being said ive been playing video games with much better story lines then 98 percent of entertainment with actors

[bolognass]

I don't think it is the future of filmmaking. I think it is the future of animation.
Beowulf might as well be a cartoon to me. There just never seems to be a
soul behind the CG eyes.

This was a big problem with the polar express. Even when they have the
best CGI, there has to be real eyes behind it for it to work. Take a look at
Davy Jones from the Pirates of the Carribean, they used the actors real eyes
and face and just overlayed the CG. I think that worked a lot better than any
of the fake-ass CG crap. It just never "feels" real to me.

[zentraed]

I think it's a mistake to try to make characters lifelike. We're all way too good at detecting every little fault in the models. They can't even get Spiderman crawling up a building to look natural. I don't have a problem with animation, but I'd rather see character models like those in Ratatouille than what I've seen of the Beowulf previews. I never watched Polar Express.

However, I will be seeing Beowulf in 3-D if they have it here :smoke:

[TheMojoPin]

I don't think it is the future of filmmaking. I think it is the future of animation.

Bingo. It will never totally replace using actual actors doing physical performances. In short, CGI can never be truly "real," and there is actually a psychological aspect that seperates the majority of audiences from actually accepting what they're watching. Unless CGI somehow becomes perfect, which is all but impossible, you can never get over that.

[TheMojoPin]

They can't even get Spiderman crawling up a building to look natural.

How is that ever going to look "natural?" I have no problem with CGI being used for stuff like that or the most of Beowulf since the things you're seeing are never going to look "natural" because they're physically impossible.

[Chigworthy]

How is that ever going to look "natural?" I have no problem with CGI being used for stuff like that or the most of Beowulf since the things you're seeing are never going to look "natural" because they're physically impossible.

Not in France:
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ohjBy8-KUBk&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ohjBy8-KUBk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Dougie Brootal]

Not in France:
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ohjBy8-KUBk&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ohjBy8-KUBk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

you can totally tell that was cgi. totally.

[zentraed]

How is that ever going to look "natural?" I have no problem with CGI being used for stuff like that or the most of Beowulf since the things you're seeing are never going to look "natural" because they're physically impossible.

Spiderman crawling up a building should be similar to say, someone going up a climbing wall. But the way they have him move when he's crawling and web-swinging just looks too awkward.

I love CGI, but I think it's silly to try to make a such photorealistic Beowulf (and fail) when you could just make a more stylized character to fight the dragon.

[TheMojoPin]

Spiderman crawling up a building should be similar to say, someone going up a climbing wall.

Why? He's not someone going up a climbing wall. He's someone who can stick to surfaces and climb that way. That's going to look nothing like someone going up a climbing wall, or even the guy in the video link. Some things are just always going to look "fake" to us no matter how good the effects are because they're just physically impossible and not really relative to anything we actually see in real life.

But the way they have him move when he's crawling and web-swinging just looks too awkward.

It looks to me like someone doing something that no human being can even come close to being able to do.

[Furtherman]

Spiderman crawling up a building should be similar to say, someone going up a climbing wall. But the way they have him move when he's crawling and web-swinging just looks too awkward.

Why? He's not someone going up a climbing wall. He's someone who can stick to surfaces and climb that way. That's going to look nothing like someone going up a climbing wall, or even the guy in the video link.

It looks to me like someone doing something that no human being can even come close to being able to do.

Exactly... Spiderman isn't exactly climbing, whereas grabbing on the wall like you would a climbing wall. He's moving along on his fingertips. It's the most realistic, unrealistic aspect of any super power in the movie.

It sounds like you'd rather be watching the 'ol Spiderman TV series.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sRXCsia-YLI&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sRXCsia-YLI&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[zentraed]

Why? He's not someone going up a climbing wall. He's someone who can stick to surfaces and climb that way. That's going to look nothing like someone going up a climbing wall, or even the guy in the video link. Some things are just always going to look "fake" to us no matter how good the effects are because they're just physically impossible and not really relative to anything we actually see in real life.

It looks to me like someone doing something that no human being can even come close to being able to do.

Spiderman is just a really strong human with sticky hands. He should still move like a human. Not the odd, slinky movements they have him do. Everything he does isn't physically impossible, just humanly impossible. Some effects look really good, and I don't mind them, but I HATED CG Spiderman. And the Burly Brawl in Matrix: Reloaded, while I'm at it.

I actually have an idea for CG that I need to do a patent review for. We've come a long way since T2, but there are still some surprising faults.

[TheMojoPin]

Spiderman is just a really strong human with sticky hands. He should still move like a human. Not the odd, slinky movements they have him do.

No, he should move move at least vaguely insect-like, hence the name. His strength and abilities means climbing the walls is something he can do much easier, quicker and more "naturally" than any human actually can.

[JustJon]

All of the examples above are different than Beowulf. Beowulf isn't just cg. They had the actors act out the parts, then drew over them with cg, like old school Rotoscoping. A similar process was done with The Polar Express and a Scanner Darkly.

[bolognass]

All of the examples above are different than Beowulf. Beowulf isn't just cg. They had the actors act out the parts, then drew over them with cg, like old school Rotoscoping. A similar process was done with The Polar Express and a Scanner Darkly.

And both of those movies showed how weird and inhuman it feels. I didn't see "A Scanner
Darkly" because of the reviews, but "The Polar Express" was almost scary and it lost every
bit of the feeling of the book because of the empty soulless eyes.

I would love to think that Beowulf will change my opinion of this, but from what I have
seen of the preview it looks like it will be empty as well. Angelina's body looks hot, but
that is about it.

[Furtherman]

No, he should move move at least vaguely insect-like, hence the name. His strength and abilities means climbing the walls is something he can do much easier, quicker and more "naturally" than any human actually can.

He does whatever a spider can. Spins a web, any size and catches thieves just like flies.
Look Out!

Spiderman is just a really strong human with sticky hands.

He doesn't have "sticky hands", he's got tiny hairs that grip the surface of any object. Didn't you even see the movie?

[zentraed]

All of the examples above are different than Beowulf. Beowulf isn't just cg. They had the actors act out the parts, then drew over them with cg, like old school Rotoscoping. A similar process was done with The Polar Express and a Scanner Darkly.

I think they use motion capture for Polar Express and Beowulf, and then use it to animate the 3D models. A Scanner Darkly and Waking Life use the new but improved rotoscoping which is my favorite animation style right now. It has a certain fluidity to it and spatially, the scenes seemed to have a remarkable sense of depth. The Waking Life DVDs have a making of that shows how it works.

But both techniques rely on actors and then they're placed on virtual sets, and those are definitely here to stay.

[zentraed]

He does whatever a spider can. Spins a web, any size and catches thieves just like flies.
Look Out!



He doesn't have "sticky hands", he's got tiny hairs that grip the surface of any object. Didn't you even see the movie?

They changed the mythology around quite a bit for the movie. The whole genetically modified spider bit is new. He doesn't even need his super-smarts anymore. Before, he was a whiz-bang chemist (although, I like the new physicist angle) and he invented his webbing. He had to be careful not to run out...

Who knew there were so many spiderman fans on this board? :surrender:

[JustJon]

And both of those movies showed how weird and inhuman it feels. I didn't see "A Scanner
Darkly" because of the reviews, but "The Polar Express" was almost scary and it lost every
bit of the feeling of the book because of the empty soulless eyes.

I would love to think that Beowulf will change my opinion of this, but from what I have
seen of the preview it looks like it will be empty as well. Angelina's body looks hot, but
that is about it.

I watched A Scanner Darkly last week. It was ok. I liked it, but dunno if I'd watch it again.

I didn't see Polar Express, but I didn't think that it and Beowulf were mocapped, I'll have to look into the process tonight.

[LiddyRules]

No, he should move move at least vaguely insect-like, hence the name. His strength and abilities means climbing the walls is something he can do much easier, quicker and more "naturally" than any human actually can. Yeah. I mean, he's not just a strong guy. I think his agility plays into it more than his strength. He is ridiculously agile, almost fluid really, his look is not just going to be a guy on a rock climbing wall. Same with the swinging.

I always thought that that was an underrated power of his. I thought it would be so cool to do that.

They changed the mythology around quite a bit for the movie. The whole genetically modified spider bit is new. He doesn't even need his super-smarts anymore. Before, he was a whiz-bang chemist (although, I like the new physicist angle) and he invented his webbing. He had to be careful not to run out... Organic webbing makes sense but I never doubted his intelligence...until the third one but that's a completely different issue.

Who knew there were so many spiderman fans on this board? :surrender: We're on an online messageboard for The Ron and Fez Show. I'm surprised there are so few.

[TheMojoPin]

They changed the mythology around quite a bit for the movie. The whole genetically modified spider bit is new. He doesn't even need his super-smarts anymore. Before, he was a whiz-bang chemist (although, I like the new physicist angle) and he invented his webbing. He had to be careful not to run out...

Who knew there were so many spiderman fans on this board? :surrender:

Personally, I always thought the idea of organic webbing was an improvement that they made for the character. It's really what makes his powers seem truly "spider-like." I never liked that he was smart enough to create this super adhesive, yet was always broke. Even with it dissolving after an hour, an adhesive that strong could still be valuable. I would have split the difference and made the webbing organic, but that he came up with the shooters to help control it and make it more pracitcal and better used offensively.

And I don't think the comic ever specified that Peter was a chemist uber alles...just that he was generally very intelligent and scientifically inclined. Hell, the original experiement that zapped the spider was an atomic one, and had nothing to do with chemistry.

Man, I caught the 2nd flick on TV today, and the first half an hour are just a joy to watch...they really nailed all the best part of the classic comics. Too bad everything went to shit for the 3rd one.

[fezident]

Currently, all CGI totally blows. I have yet to see anything that looks even remotely real because, CGI characters do not physically weigh anything. Everything those characters do... looks weightless and without impact.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know... "Gollum looked cool". Whatever. He didn't look heavy and he didn't look REAL.


The CGI we're currently viewing is still in its Atari-2600 phase. I hate it.

[Contra]

CGI can never replace all human action. There are actors that study the craft, and are very good at emoting anything a director is looking for. I don't think the people creating CGI images are actually actors. Sure they can made the model look "sad" or "happy" but it nowhere near compares to a skilled actor creating a character.

Although, I'm all for CG environments

[patsopinion]

some interesting points were made as far as how the movie was made
a skanner darlky on imdb has the actors credited as actors and beowolf has the actors credited as being voices

the second thing is that this guy plays the voice of the blond guy in the movie?http://www.insomniacmania.com/news/news_1709_1.jpg
this is just cg from what i can tell and has nothing to do with layering of any kind
they mave have motion captured the actual characters but i cant tell that they did mutch else with them based on that dude being the title character

[Chigworthy]

They changed the mythology around quite a bit for the movie. The whole genetically modified spider bit is new. He doesn't even need his super-smarts anymore. Before, he was a whiz-bang chemist (although, I like the new physicist angle) and he invented his webbing. He had to be careful not to run out...

Who knew there were so many spiderman fans on this board? :surrender:

30 innuendo points for saying "whiz-bang".

[thepaulo]

performance capture, motion capture, CGI......in the end, it is how it's used....and other things like story.

[Furtherman]

some interesting points were made as far as how the movie was made a skanner darlky on imdb has the actors credited as actors and beowolf has the actors credited as being voices the second thing is that this guy plays the voice of the blond guy in the movie? this is just cg from what i can tell and has nothing to do with layering of any kind they mave have motion captured the actual characters but i cant tell that they did mutch else with them based on that dude being the title character

Perhaps one day we'll have the technology to create better CGI and translate your posts, patsopinion.

Yes, they used Ray Winstone voice AND face for the movie. They just made him younger and thinner.

[cougarjake13]

i dont really watch movies b/c of who is in it

so whether its live action, animation or whatever this beowulf stuff is i could care less

if the story looks promising i'll go check it out

[fezident]

Well... I gave it a shot. I saw Beowulf-3D tonight and I'm truly sorry that I even bothered to leave my house.

Inexcusably bad.


The story, such as it was, was completely obscured by the gimmicky CGI and the "look at how cool I am!" 3D effects.

Personally, I had an extremely hard time following the narrative because I simply couldn't understand what the characters were saying at certain points. But, perhaps that was just me. What definitely WAS NOT just me was the hammy directing and the unrelenting effort to make the 3D as obvious as possible.
Every single time any character did ANYTHING, it was embellished for the sake of the 3D "wow factor".
If a character had to pull a chain to open a gate, you better believe that each glossy metal chainlink came directly toward the "camera". Every time somebody would unsheath their sword, it was done for the sake of the audience. Not at all natural. Oh man.... it never ended. Let's go down this hallway.... so that we can have lots of branches and spiderwebs and raindrops come directly at your glasses!! Won't that be cool??


No.

It's lame.


I walked out. This movie was an experiment in specialized film-making.... and a terrible one at that.


I give it a ONE on a ten-scale.

[drusilla]

i saw it last night. i agree with you that there was a lot of cheese when it came to 3d effects, but i don't think they over did it, & i also disagree on how hard the narrative was to follow. i thought it was pretty simple. it's a simple story & i guess it differs a lot from the original old english poem. since i never knew the original story, i think it made it easier for me to enjoy this one. i don't think the movie had to be seen in 3d (does anything really?), but i think it was a fun night out.

[zentraed]

The story, such as it was, was completely obscured by the gimmicky CGI and the "look at how cool I am!" 3D effects.


The first time they did that, I wondered if the 2-D movie was cut the same way. 'Cuz there's just no reason to have a chandelier swinging back and forth unless you're going for the "Hey, look. It's coming right at us!" gimmick.

[kdubya]

I agree completely. They seem a little creepy. I say if you are going to animate it go the Pixar route and make it animated. If you want it to look like actually people then use actually people.

I don't think it is the future of filmmaking. I think it is the future of animation.
Beowulf might as well be a cartoon to me. There just never seems to be a
soul behind the CG eyes.
This was a big problem with the polar express. Even when they have the
best CGI, there has to be real eyes behind it for it to work. Take a look at
Davy Jones from the Pirates of the Carribean, they used the actors real eyes
and face and just overlayed the CG. I think that worked a lot better than any
of the fake-ass CG crap. It just never "feels" real to me.