Spitzers license plan goes down in Flames

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The so called steamroller, NY's boy wonder governor had to drop his plan to give illegal immigrants drivers licenses. 75% of New Yorkers disagreed with his pompousness and arrogance over this. Lou Dobbs is probably cracking the bubbly now


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071114/ap_on_go_ot/immigrant_driver_s_licenses_analysis_3

[pennington]

George Pataki is looking more like a genius every day.

[epo]

So we're all supposed to get fired up about a stupid non-issue when our nation has real issues to deal with?

Blah.

[BIGASS307Buddays]

What are the republican's worried that the illegals will be driving the pick-ups instead of riding in the back, another wedge distraction isssue. I love politics,

[epo]

What are the republican's worried that the illegals will be driving the pick-ups instead of riding in the back, another wedge distraction isssue. I love politics,

And delivered at a time when the conservatives have almost nothing going in their favor!

[Foster]

I love the fact that Hillary was flip-flopping on the issue until it was voted down by over 70%. Then she made the statement she was against it.

[epo]

I love the fact that Hillary was flip-flopping on the issue until it was voted down by over 70%. Then she made the statement she was against it.

It is kinda funny, but why is this an "important" issue?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And delivered at a time when the conservatives have almost nothing going in their favor!

This wasn't just a conservative issue, there was an overwhelming amount of Democrats who wanted Spitzers idea shitcanned

[epo]

This wasn't just a conservative issue, there was an overwhelming amount of Democrats who wanted Spitzers idea shitcanned

My point is that this whole thing is an artificial wedge issue. There is no point to the whole debate.

[earthbrown]

spitzer is a cunt, in my opinion.

[A.J.]

They'll all just have to go to New Haven to get them...compliments of Mayor DeStefano (http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/pdf_whatsnew/Regist%20-%20ID%20Available%207-5-07.pdf).

[JerseySean]

My point is that this whole thing is an artificial wedge issue. There is no point to the whole debate.


It would be a wedge issue if the Republicans brought it to the front. In this case Spitzer did the work and it just became a policy issue. Can always trust the Dems to fuck this up. Fantastic!

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm happy with the way this bill turned out, though I'm pro-immigrant license.

This is exactly how I wish government would work.

Governor proposes new idea.
Idea is not received well by base.
Governor withdraws plans to pursue idea.

[earthbrown]

I'm happy with the way this bill turned out, though I'm pro-immigrant license.

This is exactly how I wish government would work.

Governor proposes new idea.
Idea is not received well by base.
Governor withdraws plans to pursue idea.

Can I ask you why you favor "licenses for illegals" ?


K

[Yerdaddy]

Can I ask you why you favor "licenses for illegals" ?


K

I'd be for it for the same reason I'm for citizens having to have licenses: to have more people be able to drive, and pass a driver's test, before driving; to be able to keep records on their driving infractions; and to enable them to be insured so others aren't forced to pay the costs of an accident caused by an uninsured driver. We aren't going to round them all up and deport them all and forcing them to become some underground class of mole-people won't force them to leave, but only put more risks and costs on the rest of us. Treating them like humans with rights and responsibilities is good for everyone. Not that that matters to the chronic and irational hatred of the right anymore.

[earthbrown]

I'd be for it for the same reason I'm for citizens having to have licenses: to have more people be able to drive, and pass a driver's test, before driving; to be able to keep records on their driving infractions; and to enable them to be insured so others aren't forced to pay the costs of an accident caused by an uninsured driver. We aren't going to round them all up and deport them all and forcing them to become some underground class of mole-people won't force them to leave, but only put more risks and costs on the rest of us. Treating them like humans with rights and responsibilities is good for everyone. Not that that matters to the chronic and irational hatred of the right anymore.


Driving is a privilege, not a right....that is why they can disregard your 5th amendment right by forcing you to take an alcohol screening test.

That asside, many of the lower class run around WITHOUT INSURANCE!!! The illegals would be able to obtain licenses, buy vehicles and drive them without insurance, NYS really has no real fail safe to you not having insurance, they suspend reggies, but dont go round up cars with out insurance.

If you really want to protect yourself, put full comp and collision + max out the injury coverage on your insurance.

A license is a privilege BEST reserved for citizens and LEGAL visitors.

K

[epo]

Driving is a privilege, not a right....that is why they can disregard your 5th amendment right by forcing you to take an alcohol screening test.

That asside, many of the lower class run around WITHOUT INSURANCE!!! The illegals would be able to obtain licenses, buy vehicles and drive them without insurance, NYS really has no real fail safe to you not having insurance, they suspend reggies, but dont go round up cars with out insurance.

If you really want to protect yourself, put full comp and collision + max out the injury coverage on your insurance.

A license is a privilege BEST reserved for citizens and LEGAL visitors.

K

You really didn't read & comprehend Yerdaddy's point, did you?

[SniperDudeMJS]

What are the republican's worried that the illegals will be driving the pick-ups instead of riding in the back, another wedge distraction isssue. I love politics,

How about illegals collecting Social Security when they've contributed nothing to the system? That hurts all of us.

[SniperDudeMJS]

I'd be for it for the same reason I'm for citizens having to have licenses: to have more people be able to drive, and pass a driver's test, before driving; to be able to keep records on their driving infractions; and to enable them to be insured so others aren't forced to pay the costs of an accident caused by an uninsured driver. We aren't going to round them all up and deport them all and forcing them to become some underground class of mole-people won't force them to leave, but only put more risks and costs on the rest of us. Treating them like humans with rights and responsibilities is good for everyone. Not that that matters to the chronic and irational hatred of the right anymore.

The Driver's License is fundamental to securing all sorts of other identity-documents in this country. Granting D.Ls to illegals leaves us wide open to providing important identity-documents to people like the 9/11 hijackers, who are a much better example of people with chronic and irrational hatred than the one you gave.:innocent:

[Yerdaddy]

The Driver's License is fundamental to securing all sorts of other identity-documents in this country. Granting D.Ls to illegals leaves us wide open to providing important identity-documents to people like the 9/11 hijackers, who are a much better example of people with chronic and irrational hatred than the one you gave.:innocent:

It wouldn't have affected the 9-11 hijackers. They were allowed in legally. There are better ways to prevent terrorism than not granting undocumented immigrants licences.

[Crispy123]

The Driver's License is fundamental to securing all sorts of other identity-documents in this country. Granting D.Ls to illegals leaves us wide open to providing important identity-documents to people like the 9/11 hijackers, who are a much better example of people with chronic and irrational hatred than the one you gave.:innocent:

Thats right, if someone disagrees or has a different point of view they are weak in the Wurr on Turrrr. Yerdaddy and all those damn hippies with their lofty ideals that all men are created equal are undermining this country.

[A.J.]

Yerdaddy and all those damn hippies with their lofty ideals that all men are created equal are undermining this country.

They are.

http://www.house.gov/harman/photos/2004/March.jpg

[Dude!]

Not that that matters to the chronic and irational hatred of the right anymore.

you ruined your argument with that dumb line
in liberal ny even 70%+ of the dems were against this
it was a firestorm on left and right

[Crispy123]

They are.

http://www.house.gov/harman/photos/2004/March.jpg

What is the National Organ For Wome???

[A.J.]

What is the National Organ For Wome???

Oh....I have an organ for those broads!

[foodcourtdruide]

I'd be for it for the same reason I'm for citizens having to have licenses: to have more people be able to drive, and pass a driver's test, before driving; to be able to keep records on their driving infractions; and to enable them to be insured so others aren't forced to pay the costs of an accident caused by an uninsured driver. We aren't going to round them all up and deport them all and forcing them to become some underground class of mole-people won't force them to leave, but only put more risks and costs on the rest of us. Treating them like humans with rights and responsibilities is good for everyone. Not that that matters to the chronic and irational hatred of the right anymore.

Thank you for answering the question better than I could have.

[Recyclerz]

How about illegals collecting Social Security when they've contributed nothing to the system? That hurts all of us.

Your assertion is mostly wrong. Although some illegal aliens do collect SSI through fraud or legal loopholes, the Soc. Security trust fund actually makes money from immigrants who use fake IDs and SS numbers to get hired, have FICO taxes withheld and will never be able to claim benefits. I've seen studies that indicate this brings in over $5 billion a year.

What we should be doing is concentrating on how to raise the number of legal immigrants we can bring in from Latin America, if only to help shore up the SS & Medicare systems.

Tangential point to WF's original post: Spitzer really has come into office like a stumbling, bumbling prick after practically being appointed Governor by acclamation. He better get his staff under control if he wants to stay around for more than one term. Maybe Fez and Earl can give him some pointers. :wink:

[epo]

How about illegals collecting Social Security when they've contributed nothing to the system? That hurts all of us.

Actually the 1996 Welfare Reform Bill effectively ended benefits for non-citizens.

In all actuality, illegals are a net gain for the US federal government's checkbook. They end up paying taxes and can't collect anything. So do the math....illegal immigrants are actually lowering your tax load.

Please stop with the O'Reilly talking points.

[foodcourtdruide]

How about illegals collecting Social Security when they've contributed nothing to the system? That hurts all of us.

Hi. I have nothing new to add, but wanted to join everyone else in pointing out how wrong you are.

[badmonkey]

Your assertion is mostly wrong. Although some illegal aliens do collect SSI through fraud or legal loopholes, the Soc. Security trust fund actually makes money from immigrants who use fake IDs and SS numbers to get hired, have FICO taxes withheld and will never be able to claim benefits. I've seen studies that indicate this brings in over $5 billion a year.

What we should be doing is concentrating on how to raise the number of legal immigrants we can bring in from Latin America, if only to help shore up the SS & Medicare systems.


Illegals do pay into the system and it's a very rare occurance that they get anything back out of it, but are you really saying that the solution to the social security problem is finding more poor people to rob?

[Recyclerz]

Illegals do pay into the system and it's a very rare occurance that they get anything back out of it, but are you really saying that the solution to the social security problem is finding more poor people to rob?

I didn't think so but let me be more specific in case that is the way it came across. I think the immigration policy of this country should be based on informed judgement about what the economic needs of the country are balanced with the knowledge that the US is a magnet for people around the world who want to live in a free society with better economic opportunities than they have in whatever crap hole that they presently live in (and Yerdaddy happens to be visting) rather than the xenophobic blather that seems to control the debate these days.

And if we can even partly fix our demographic/economic issues by taking in more people who want to live here and contribute to the society through hard work, regardless of what their native language happens to be, I say we do it.

[badmonkey]

I didn't think so but let me be more specific in case that is the way it came across. I think the immigration policy of this country should be based on informed judgement about what the economic needs of the country are balanced with the knowledge that the US is a magnet for people around the world who want to live in a free society with better economic opportunities than they have in whatever crap hole that they presently live in (and Yerdaddy happens to be visting) rather than the xenophobic blather that seems to control the debate these days.

And if we can even partly fix our demographic/economic issues by taking in more people who want to live here and contribute to the society through hard work, regardless of what their native language happens to be, I say we do it.

I misread your earlier post and I agree with your last paragraph completely. I'm not sure that all the blather surrounding this issue has been xenophobic tho. There are a lot of people crying xenophobe and racist these days when there is little evidence to support those claims. I want hard working people that want to come here and contribute to this country to do just that. I want them to do it legally and through the proper channels. I also want them to learn to speak english and make their children learn to speak english so that they can raise themselves up through education rather than condemning their children to an illiterate life of picking berries.

I don't wanna change the subject tho... so... no licenses for illegals. It leads to too many other benefits including illegal voting. Illegal immigrants need to learn one basic thing about America and that is how to stand in a line. If they can't stand in line to get into the country, I don't have a lot of faith that they will stand in line for a driver's license anyway. How about we vote on it?

Badmonkey

[Yerdaddy]

you ruined your argument with that dumb line
in liberal ny even 70%+ of the dems were against this
it was a firestorm on left and right

It wasn't an issue-specific statement but a general assertion about the conservative movement's irrational and self-destructive rantings about immigrants as a whole. I'm cool with my arguent and apparently so are my minions, bless their sweet asses.

[Yerdaddy]

Thats right, if someone disagrees or has a different point of view they are weak in the Wurr on Turrrr. Yerdaddy and all those damn hippies with their lofty ideals that all men are created equal are undermining this country.
They are.

http://www.house.gov/harman/photos/2004/March.jpg

I was only there to show my support for the rights of women everywhere to achieve equal rights, the same pay for the same work, equal rights under the law, and to score some serious trim. Literally!

(That's me disguised as Mr. MacGoo in the hat and sunglasses on the left.)

[Yerdaddy]

I misread your earlier post and I agree with your last paragraph completely. I'm not sure that all the blather surrounding this issue has been xenophobic tho. There are a lot of people crying xenophobe and racist these days when there is little evidence to support those claims. I want hard working people that want to come here and contribute to this country to do just that. I want them to do it legally and through the proper channels. I also want them to learn to speak english and make their children learn to speak english so that they can raise themselves up through education rather than condemning their children to an illiterate life of picking berries.

I don't wanna change the subject tho... so... no licenses for illegals. It leads to too many other benefits including illegal voting. Illegal immigrants need to learn one basic thing about America and that is how to stand in a line. If they can't stand in line to get into the country, I don't have a lot of faith that they will stand in line for a driver's license anyway. How about we vote on it?

Badmonkey


Just a couple of points:

I have never met a second generation immigrant who didn't speak English. I've met few first generation immigrants who don't speak it, and I worked with the public for 12 years in the SF Bay Area - probably the most multicultural populous in human history. I will say that the Chicago area, where I lived next, was probably different because the place is so fucking segregated - both self and officially imposed - that I was chased out of one black and one Greek neighborhood by the police because they "didn't want to clean me off the fucking sidewalk. So I think much of the reason there are pockets of non-English speakers is that they're treated like shit by so many citizens in many parts of the country.

It's really friggin hard to learn a foreign language, (and English is a hard one, I've learned abroad, because it breaks so many of its own goddamn rules), especially if you're poor and working your ass off to provide for a family. I still suck at Arabic and I sat on my ass in the Middle East for two years.

Americans make up big portions of ex-pat communities in every crap hole I've visited and most of them don't speak the local language. And no non-Americans seem to understand why we're so pissy about speaking English in America.

If we were able to restrict immigration to the legal cap on immigrants from Mexico we'd probably have zero GDP growth. We don't have undocumented immigrants because they're criminals or lazy but because our policy-makers prefer undocumented workers to documented ones for the reasons stated in previous posts. Truth is, we NEED them here, but we WANT them to be undocumented and vulnerable to our political whims.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It amazes me when I hear people cry out racist or anti immigrant or xenephobe rants. Its not just me who takes offense when people come here illegally and demand that everything should be in their native language and that we should adapt to their customs and traditions and who dont want to assimilate

My sister in law is from Japan and my girlfriend is from Peru and they take even more offense. They came here legally, they are taking all the required steps to become citizens i.e. they learned english, they paid application fees, had to take physical examinations to make sure they are not carrying diseases like HIV , Hepatitis etc. They take offense that people are cutting in line and could possibly be rewarded

[foodcourtdruide]

It amazes me when I hear people cry out racist or anti immigrant or xenephobe rants. Its not just me who takes offense when people come here illegally and demand that everything should be in their native language and that we should adapt to their customs and traditions and who dont want to assimilate
My sister in law is from Japan and my girlfriend is from Peru and they take even more offense. They came here legally, they are taking all the required steps to become citizens i.e. they learned english, they paid application fees, had to take physical examinations to make sure they are not carrying diseases like HIV , Hepatitis etc. They take offense that people are cutting in line and could possibly be rewarded

Do you know anyone doing this?!?! This is Bill O'Reilly style paranoia. No one is coming here demanding you speak Spanish and celebrate Cinco de Mayo. If there are people doing this, they are in the extreme minority.

[A.J.]

I still suck at Arabic and I sat on my ass in the Middle East for two years.

No you didn't!

http://idontreadyourblog.blogs.friendster.com/photos/squatholes_of_yemen/squathole_sheesha.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Love him or hate him, Limbaugh states a valid point on this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZHPm_TEQ0PA

[epo]

Love him or hate him, Limbaugh states a valid point on this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZHPm_TEQ0PA

Seriously, that was simply a red herring, ignorant diatribe.

[Crispy123]

Love him or hate him, Limbaugh states a valid point on this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZHPm_TEQ0PA

I sell that fat bastard vicoden, xanies, and guatamalen hookers, I love him.