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1st squadron of V-22s quietly deployed to Iraq [Archive] - RonFez.net Messageboard

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scottinnj
12-23-2007, 09:35 PM
Story Here (http://www.navair.navy.mil/v22/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.detail&id=191).


I'm watching "FutureWeapons" on the Military Channel (Directv channel 287) and the host is going over the Osprey, a hybrid airplane/helicopter. I suddenly remembered a story I read in September, and wanted to let you guys know about this problem we are going to have. Here are a couple of pictures of the aircraft, you've probably seen this thing on TV:

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/v22.jpg

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/transport-m/v22/v22_07.jpg
I have seen stories on this airframe since it's early days, and 25 years and 22 dead I have decided this thing is not worthy of our military men and women.

It costs as of now, no less then 80 million dollars apiece, and the Pentagon has allocated funds to buy them at over 100 million dollars in 2008.

NOBODY has shown me what the pilots are supposed to do to autorotate if one of the engine nacelles have been hit while in the hovering mode during takeoff or landing.

NOBODY has shown me how the pilots can land this thing, if the nacelles cannot be switched to hover mode from airplane mode. The propellers are so long, when the nacelles are down, the blades rotate lower then the fuselage and landing gear. IT CAN'T LAND LIKE AN AIRPLANE!

Those two questions should have been answered 25 years, and 200 billion dollars ago.

Now they are going into combat. In the place that loves shooting down helicopters.

The US Army has lost 41 helicopters over Iraq and Afghanistan this past year, with another 24 so badly damaged they are likely to be scrapped. This is proof that employing ultra-expensive V-22s over combat zones is unwise, especially since they are larger than any helicopter in the US inventory. The V-22 weighs twice as much and costs four times more than helicopters with comparable abilities. For example, the Navy's FY2005 budget requests 15 MH-60S helicopters for $400.8 million; or a unit cost of $26.7 million each. This helo weighs one-third as much as the V-22, but can pick up nearly the same payload. It has room for 13 combat equipped Marines, compared to 18 for the
V-22. If Congress canceled the V-22 and diverted its $1756.5 million FY2005 request to buy MH-60Ss, this could provide 67 modern helicopters for the Corps, which can also carry machine guns, rockets, and Hellfire missiles, unlike the V-22.

Complete Link to above quote HERE (http://www.g2mil.com/V-22costs.htm)
This was written in 2005, and the shootdown rate of helicopters has gone down, but even if you remove the shootdown numbers, the philosophy is the same as is the tactical impraticalities of deploying this thing instead of the C130 and the Sea King Helicopter.

Given the extraordinary costs of this airframe, and the unknown problems it will encounter in combat situations, I am against this being deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Personally, I'd like to see the whole program scrapped altogether.

PapaBear
12-23-2007, 09:40 PM
Death traps. Sounds like a lot of people are going to make a shit load of money at the cost of American lives. Like there's anything new about that concept....:nono:

thejives
12-23-2007, 09:43 PM
Dayum.
Nice evaluation Scott.

I'm with you on this. John McCain is a pilot, and he hates pork.
He should come out against this.

tele7
12-23-2007, 09:48 PM
It looks like something from the 50's. If it doesn't work, I bet they have the Spruce Goose on deck.

Yerdaddy
12-23-2007, 09:50 PM
It looks like a giant flying set of silicone titties. Which is basically because the only people who say it's safe is, like silicone titties, is people who have a financial stake in seeing them out there. Another comparison is that anyone who gets near one of these things is getting fucked because anyone with $100 and a tribal tattoo can take one out.

booster11373
12-24-2007, 12:22 AM
there was a big write up in either Time or Newsweek about these a couple of months ago basically making the same points as above.

One of the major points I dont see listed is that it was designed to have a big honking Gatling gun in the front that was supposed to "prepare" an area before troop deployment only that was to heavy and caused major traumatic vibration in the aircraft

So the compromise solution is to have a rear door gunner firing a much smaller and less powerful gun to "cover" deployment


the thing looks cool in video games but everything Ive read says that it is a time bomb waitng to go off

tbagnu
12-24-2007, 02:19 AM
hell!! if these helicopter thingies "take off" why don't they bring back the rigid airship? damn! i miss the akron!!

Mike Teacher
12-24-2007, 02:45 AM
Dayum.
Nice evaluation Scott.

I'm with you on this. John McCain is a pilot, and he hates pork.
He should come out against this.

Not to steal Scott's thunder, but the Osprey's un-airworthiness has been known since the design stage; and someone just did a huge story on it. Again.

But yer right, it's a real death trap.

A.J.
12-24-2007, 03:03 AM
And the worst part is that future ships had to be redesigned to accommodate this piece of shit. That cost the taxpayers a nice chunck of change.

But whatever lives it has taken, so many more jobs were saved in some district. Huzzah!

Tenbatsuzen
12-24-2007, 04:38 AM
It looks like a giant flying set of silicone titties. Which is basically because the only people who say it's safe is, like silicone titties, is people who have a financial stake in seeing them out there. Another comparison is that anyone who gets near one of these things is getting fucked because anyone with $100 and a tribal tattoo can take one out.

Actually, the new version of silicone implants, that are gel-based, are very safe.

Chigworthy
12-24-2007, 07:12 AM
Actually, the new version of silicone implants, that are gel-based, are very safe.

At least give hime some credit for the tribal tattoo line; that gave me a chuckle. It made me think of Pamela Anderson and her stretched, tortured titties fighting enemies rambo-style.

patsopinion
12-24-2007, 10:54 AM
why doesn't the thing just use jet engines more like a harrier would?

scottinnj
12-27-2007, 05:25 PM
why doesn't the thing just use jet engines more like a harrier would?

Thrust to weight ratio. If you've ever seen a harrier's combat load vs. flight time, it is hideous. This thing, to be able to fly as far as it does with the weight it's designed to carry, if it had jet propulsion the fuel used to get it off the ground would drain the tanks it currently uses. The fuel tanks would have to be increased dramatically, and with the extra fuel needed to get it off the ground, the payload it could bring to combat would be reduced.

The Sea King helicopter already answers the need for troop movement from ship to shore:

http://www.navy.gov.au/gallery/images/NIUE010150-14.jpg

At 1/3 the cost of one V-22 Osprey, which means you could buy three of them for one Osprey, and avoid the cost of refitting Marine assault ships to accomodate the bigger Osprey.

As far as quickly moving in equipment, just call in the ol' reliable Hercules:

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/aircraft/c130_mainlarge.jpg

And nothing beats the C-130 airframe for air to ground support, when "Spooky" is deployed:
http://www.milnet.com/ac-130-large.jpg

Those appendages protruding from the side are two 20mm Vulcan electric gatling guns, a 40mm cannon and a 105mm howitzer. She is also known as the "Spectre" or "Puff the magic dragon" and she is the sexiest thing an infantry man can see in the sky.

Dougie Brootal
12-27-2007, 05:45 PM
i live right next to a navy base in md and i swore i saw one of these flying this morning. i didnt believe my eyes until i saw this thread. goddamn.

Zorro
12-27-2007, 06:08 PM
As far as quickly moving in equipment, just call in the ol' reliable Hercules:



I spent my Air Force time flying in the back of mostly C-130's. I've also flown in the the C141 & C-5 but a 130 has an ability to get a hold of your soul and never make you forget the ride or the fact that you shit in a honeypot.

scottinnj
12-27-2007, 06:25 PM
I spent my Air Force time flying in the back of mostly C-130's. I've also flown in the the C141 & C-5 but a 130 has an ability to get a hold of your soul and never make you forget the ride or the fact that you shit in a honeypot.


Thank you very much. As for being a ground pounder, nothing looked better then old Herc when it was time to L E A V E !!!!

A.J.
12-28-2007, 03:40 AM
i live right next to a navy base in md and i swore i saw one of these flying this morning. i didnt believe my eyes until i saw this thread. goddamn.

You live near Pax River, right? That's where the Navy does all its flight testing.

Fezticle98
12-28-2007, 06:41 PM
You live near Pax River, right? That's where the Navy does all its flight testing.

No, I think he lives out in California.

A.J.
02-09-2008, 10:59 AM
The V-22 is reportedly doing well in Iraq (http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/02/08/osprey/index.html).

scottinnj
02-09-2008, 02:02 PM
The V-22 is reportedly doing well in Iraq (http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/02/08/osprey/index.html).

Well, it's early, but if this type of thing plays out, I'm glad to be proven wrong in this case. Aside from the astronomical costs, this is good news for the soldiers. If it had been the mistake I had feared, I didn't want to read the stories coming from Iraq. But this is good.