UFC/MMA Discussion

[smiler grogan]

Yeah, but I don't doubt some of these guys are training, going to sleep, training, maybe shower, training, sleep, training. Throw in some pain pills and "performance enhancing drugs."
The foot and Randleman are bad. Looks like I can see his lungs.
No doubt about the routine, def. seeing Randleman's lat muscles. Hire one cleaning guy to continually wipe the place down. Blech.

[StanUpshaw]

It's a wonder that none of these guys have sued their facilities. A guy like Florian or Griffin missing a fight surely amounts to six figures in damages.

Whaddya think, Serp, we got a case?

[Serpico1103]

It's a wonder that none of these guys have sued their facilities. A guy like Florian or Griffin missing a fight surely amounts to six figures in damages.

Whaddya think, Serp, we got a case?

Not sure they make all that much. Maybe gross 6 figures, but what are they left with.

I don't think they want to get that sort of rep. Besides, not sure how easy it would be to trace back. And, they probably acted negligently as well, letting it go untreated so they could train.

Makes me worry about training.

[Dirtbag]

Isn't this one of those things that just mopping down your mats with 50/50 water/bleach after practice should solve? There's gotta be some gross negligence, or just some filthy bastards in there.

[TripleSkeet]

It's a wonder that none of these guys have sued their facilities. A guy like Florian or Griffin missing a fight surely amounts to six figures in damages.

Whaddya think, Serp, we got a case?

I dont think they make that much. The winners definitely get more. I remember an interview Lidell gave right after the Vanderlei vs. Jardine fight. His statement went something like this "Vanderlei just made $75 grand, Kieth Jardine just made $30 grand and now he has to go to the hospital."

[StanUpshaw]

I'm not sure about Florian, but Forrest is among the top guys.

News sites (http://mmajunkie.com/news/16968/ufc-106-fighter-salaries-forrest-griffin-and-tito-ortiz-each-earn-250000.mma) are reporting he made $250k after beating Tito at 106.

Florian made $80k at UFC 91 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/13270/ufc-91-salaries-brock-lesnar-and-randy-couture-earn-top-salaries.mma)

[TripleSkeet]

I'm not sure about Florian, but Forrest is among the top guys.

News sites (http://mmajunkie.com/news/16968/ufc-106-fighter-salaries-forrest-griffin-and-tito-ortiz-each-earn-250000.mma) are reporting he made $250k after beating Tito at 106.

Florian made $80k at UFC 91 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/13270/ufc-91-salaries-brock-lesnar-and-randy-couture-earn-top-salaries.mma)

Well yea, they were the main event. But did you see what the other guys on the card made? Not as much as one would think.

[Dirtbag]

Well yea, they were the main event. But did you see what the other guys on the card made? Not as much as one would think.

The stuff you see on the news sites are the "disclosed payroll." It's almost always higher than that, and usually significantly higher. I remember one card, I believe it was a Strikeforce show, that one of the winners was listed has having made something retarded like 500 bucks which got people all up in arms over it, and more knowledgeable were trying to explain that that's just the figure that the organization has to report to the athletic commission.

MMA guys aren't nearly on the levels of other pro sports, as even what Lesnar makes is a drop in the bucket compared to guys like Mayweather, but the figures you see reported after fights are often misleading.

[Serpico1103]

The fighter may also have to pay for his support system. Unlike it team sports, fighters and boxers pay their team, pay for their own training. Their pursue is the gross, not net after all their expenses. Team players just pay an agent and taxes.

[TripleSkeet]

The fighter may also have to pay for his support system. Unlike it team sports, fighters and boxers pay their team, pay for their own training. Their pursue is the gross, not net after all their expenses. Team players just pay an agent and taxes.

They also have a hard time getting medical insurance.

[Serpico1103]

They also have a hard time getting medical insurance.
I could see that being a reason many lower level fighter don't get staph treated early. They probably rely on cash jobs to pay bills while they train. MMA like other sports should focus on caring for the athlete instead of just throwing out a large number that impresses people who don't see the whole story. Like the NFL's pension system that most players don't qualify for.

[StanUpshaw]

http://imgur.com/c48ra.png

Nick Ring: Baritone Gay

[Serpico1103]

Nick Ring: Baritone Gay

Obvious. If you believe stereotypes.

Just saw TUF. The way Liddell was "mad dogging" Dana White after the fight was intense.

Chuck has a frightening look. But, the coaches getting dramatic over bad judging is becoming boring. Too many of the fighters look gassed after one round, let alone two. Don't these guys get into shape. Forget technique. Have something left at the end of two rounds and you will win.

[StanUpshaw]

The only thing gayer than a UFC weigh-in is this (http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/34607-1/VintageGayOrgy.jpg).






nsfw

[newport king]

mitrione really worked kimbo tonight.

[Crippler]

I bet on Mitrione, not because I think he has too much real talent (unless his opponent is going to just sit in front of him), but because every time I've seen Kimbo's back hit the canvas he acts like a canary after someone throws a towel over their cage. He stops moving & mentally gives up. He's got zero heart & only slightly more talent.

I'm sure he's a nice guy & I don't want to see anyone lose their job, but I hope the UFC has seen enough of him to know to never put him on PPV again. You wanna put him in front of James Toney to get knocked the fuck out after Toney gets schooled by Randy, fine...but put it on Spike or Versus. I don't want to waste my PPV dollars on freak show fights.

[newport king]

i gotta give it to the ufc, its pretty impressive that EVERY MONTH they come up with a ppv with a headline fight everyone wants to see.

[Crippler]

Agreed...and nowadays it's often twice per month. But I think if they want to continue at this pace they may have to fold WEC into the UFC to add those two extra weight classes (which always deliver good fights).

[Crippler]

And Paul Daley just got himself a pink-slip. Koscheck is a major douche & that knee didn't even come close, but you can't suckerpunch a guy 30 seconds after the fight is over.

[Dirtbag]

I didn't think it would be possible to look like a bigger douche than Kos after that flop but Daley found a way.

[Crippler]

Not to be out-heeled, Kos cuts a promo on the Canadian crowd about the Habs losing to the Pens & him beating GSP.

GSP putting a beating on Kos will give me almost as much joy as Bisping getting knocked the fuck out by Henderson (& hopefully Rampage destroying Rashad).

[newport king]

if his leg is ok im going shogun.

[newport king]

good night. justice is served.

[Crippler]

There's no one else even in my house with me right now, but I still busted out like Ronnie B yelling at Earl:

"Lyoto Machida...YOU GOT KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT!!"

[newport king]

i like shogun but jesus christ, wear some bigger/baggier shorts will ya? i can see it all.

[Crippler]

Haha...true, but that's classic Pride Era Chute Boxe-style...I'm just sad Wand doesn't wear them anymore.

[TripleSkeet]

You wanna put him in front of James Toney to get knocked the fuck out after Toney gets schooled by Randy, fine...but put it on Spike or Versus. I don't want to waste my PPV dollars on freak show fights.

Im still trying to figure out what James Toney did to be put in a match with Couture like that. Its not even fair. Its not enough the guy is an old washed up boxer, but hes so punch drunk hes borderline retarded. And Dana puts him in there with Couture???? He had to really piss somebody off over there.

[StanUpshaw]

For a fight that I've really been anticipating, that was a bit anticlimactic. What a wasted six months that was.

But at least the right guy finally won. Hopefully we can get a decent reign going at 205. I'm sick of musical chairs.

[StanUpshaw]

Im still trying to figure out what James Toney did to be put in a match with Couture like that. Its not even fair. Its not enough the guy is an old washed up boxer, but hes so punch drunk hes borderline retarded. And Dana puts him in there with Couture???? He had to really piss somebody off over there.

Dana doesn't want him, he just doesn't want anyone else to have him. When he gets chewed up and spit out, he's going to be a worthless commodity, rather than another Herschel Walker/Bobby Lashley for Strikeforce to hype.

[TripleSkeet]

Dana doesn't want him, he just doesn't want anyone else to have him. When he gets chewed up and spit out, he's going to be a worthless commodity, rather than another Herschel Walker/Bobby Lashley for Strikeforce to hype.

Bobby Lashley has potential to be a pretty bad dude.

[StanUpshaw]

Maybe, but we'll never know until Strikeforce quits putting him up against cans. Who's next, Tre Telligman?

[Dirtbag]

Strikeforce's heavyweight division isn't particularly deep and the guys they do have are all fighting each other. Overeem/Rogers, Fedor/Werdum, and Arlovski/Silva. Maybe they can sign big Tim after he bores us to death en route to a decision win against Pudz in a couple weeks.

[StanUpshaw]

i like shogun but jesus christ, wear some bigger/baggier shorts will ya? i can see it all.

You have xray cup vision do ye?

[newport king]

no but a boy can only imagine.

[JPMNICK]

do they replay these on spike at some point?

[StanUpshaw]

No, but I think you can buy the replay on PPV. Or the UFC website.

[cougarjake13]

do they replay these on spike at some point?




many months later i think

[StanUpshaw]

many months later i think

They don't replay anything on any reliable schedule. They'll run something on Spike to compete with Strikeforce on CBS, but you can't count on seeing any show in particular.

[Lady Resin]

Kimbo gets the boot:

http://msn.foxsports.com/boxing/story/ufc-star-kimbo-slice-gets-the-ax-after-dismal-fight-050910?GT1=39002

[Crippler]

Beat me to it....so long Kimbo, we hardly knew ye. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Kimbo-s-run-in-the-UFC-is-over-White-cuts-him?urn=mma,239667)

[brettmojo]

What a cute, happy couple... (http://www.wwtdd.com/2010/05/everything-is-all-better-now/)

http://cdn.wwtdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/40347pcn_jameson17.png

Earlier this year, Jenna Jameson stood in front of reporters and accused Tito <nobr style="color: darkgreen; font-weight: normal; font-size: 100%; font-family: Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,Sans-Serif;" id="itxt_nobr_0_0">Ortizhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/2_bing.gif</nobr> (http://www.wwtdd.com/2010/05/everything-is-all-better-now/#) of beating her up, even claiming he threw her into a bathtub and tore ligaments in her shoulder, but that was almost 2 weeks ago, and there’s no point in living in the past, so yesterday she and Tito held hands at the beach.

[TripleSkeet]

What a cute, happy couple... (http://www.wwtdd.com/2010/05/everything-is-all-better-now/)

http://cdn.wwtdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/40347pcn_jameson17.png

Whats wrong with your faaaaaaace???

[StanUpshaw]

An alright, yet completely frivolous Strikeforce show last night. A lot of familiar faces, most showing why they aren't cut out for the big league yet/anymore.

Probably the most interesting thing to come out of that show was an elucidation of Roger's true abilities, and by comparison, Fedor's. The degree that Fedor was able to be bullied around by Rogers for a round and a half, and now seeing how Rogers crumbled under a legit, modern 265er; it makes me believe that Fedor has little hope among the monsters that now populate the HW division.

[newport king]

the fedor mystique is cool, but i watched rogers literally BEAT THE SHIT out of him for over a round. and then he got caught. any man in that weight class gets caught flush its over. now overeem decimated rogers, i understand its not the best way to look at it that fighter A barely got by this guy and fighter B destroyed this guy therefore fighter B should kill fighter A. but it should be a good matchup. By the way i think overeem will beat him just so we'll never seen lesnar or carwin fight fedor.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I'm debating buying the PPV right now. I just saw a HORRID curtain jerker match, but now I'm watching Amir Sallah.

[StanUpshaw]

I can't imagine it's worth buying. I lost interest in the Rashad-Rampage rivalry after about five episodes of the TUF season, and I have zero faith that this will be any sort of good fight.

I think Rashad will be too quick; he'll go for takedown after takedown and Rampage will spend three rounds on his back.

[TripleSkeet]

Anybody got a stream link?

[Tenbatsuzen]

I just watched the Korean Zombie/Garcia match. HOLY. SHIT.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Goddamn, Rampage looks BAD>

[newport king]

very good, smart fight by rashad, but god damn rampage, YOU HAD HIM!!! Too good of a fight not to have a rematch at some point.

what happened to diego sanchez? did bj beat the confidence out of him?

[Dirtbag]

Looks like Rashad took the beating Machida gave him to heart.

[Crippler]

I'm downloading the PPV now so I can re-watch that 3rd round, but I have a question for all who saw it. Taking nothing away from Rashad's dominance for 14:20 of this fight...IF Herb Dean had been on the right side of Rampage instead of the left & saw Rashad's eye's roll back when he got dropped, then by the time he got around Rampage saw that Rashad wasn't defending himself, but rather was grasping for Rampage's body for some reason I can't figure out, & decided to stop the fight...would it have been a bad stoppage? At the time I thought maybe it should have been stopped, but I'm withholding judgement until I see it at real speed a few times.

[StanUpshaw]

I'm downloading the PPV now so I can re-watch that 3rd round, but I have a question for all who saw it. Taking nothing away from Rashad's dominance for 14:20 of this fight...IF Herb Dean had been on the right side of Rampage instead of the left & saw Rashad's eye's roll back when he got dropped, then by the time he got around Rampage saw that Rashad wasn't defending himself, but rather was grasping for Rampage's body for some reason I can't figure out, & decided to stop the fight...would it have been a bad stoppage? At the time I thought maybe it should have been stopped, but I'm withholding judgement until I see it at real speed a few times.

First off, grasping for the body is a better defense than just throwing your forearms up. If you can pull him down or yourself up, so there's no distance between you, then voila, you're out of danger.

Given that we know the outcome of that round, then of course we know it would have been a bad stoppage. I don't see how this is even a question.

[TripleSkeet]

I'm downloading the PPV now so I can re-watch that 3rd round, but I have a question for all who saw it. Taking nothing away from Rashad's dominance for 14:20 of this fight...IF Herb Dean had been on the right side of Rampage instead of the left & saw Rashad's eye's roll back when he got dropped, then by the time he got around Rampage saw that Rashad wasn't defending himself, but rather was grasping for Rampage's body for some reason I can't figure out, & decided to stop the fight...would it have been a bad stoppage? At the time I thought maybe it should have been stopped, but I'm withholding judgement until I see it at real speed a few times.

Probably not, but ever since Arlovskis first loss Herb Dean has not been one to stop fights too fast. He took alot of heat for stopping that fight too early and ever since then if a guy gets rocked he gives him a few seconds to save himself before stopping it.

I dont think being on the left or right side wouldve had anything to do with him stopping it.

[Crippler]

First off, grasping for the body is a better defense than just throwing your forearms up. If you can pull him down or yourself up, so there's no distance between you, then voila, you're out of danger.

Given that we know the outcome of that round, then of course we know it would have been a bad stoppage. I don't see how this is even a question.

Yeah, maybe I worded that wrong. I know that grabbing around the shoulders or neck & pulling a fighter into you is the better way to protect yourself while on your back. What Rashad was doing, though, was grabbing the back Rampage's trunks & holding on for dear life.

Probably not, but ever since Arlovskis first loss Herb Dean has not been one to stop fights too fast. He took alot of heat for stopping that fight too early and ever since then if a guy gets rocked he gives him a few seconds to save himself before stopping it.

I dont think being on the left or right side wouldve had anything to do with him stopping it.

The only reason I mentioned this is because one of the replays they showed was from that angle (to the right of Rampage). In it you see Rashad's eyes roll back, his body land rigid like a flash KO, and in slo-mo it appeared like Rampage dropped enough lefts & rights to get the fight ended.

Re-watching it at full speed a few times I totally agree with the non-stoppage. It was just that the one replay had me (admittedly pulling big time for Rampage) thinking what could have been.

[newport king]

rashad really fought a great fight and i was rooting for rampage.

i expected it to be stopped when he went out for that quick second, but on the replay it didnt look like he landed any of those shots clean after they were on the ground.

i was hoping itd be stopped but considering how well he not only recovered but wound up winning that round it was a good non-stop.

btw i was watching online and the feed cut out during the little nog result...i assumed he had lost, what the fuck were the judges watching giving him the split decision?

[TripleSkeet]

rashad really fought a great fight and i was rooting for rampage.

i expected it to be stopped when he went out for that quick second, but on the replay it didnt look like he landed any of those shots clean after they were on the ground.

i was hoping itd be stopped but considering how well he not only recovered but wound up winning that round it was a good non-stop.

btw i was watching online and the feed cut out during the little nog result...i assumed he had lost, what the fuck were the judges watching giving him the split decision?

Joe Rogan even acknowledged the crowd chanting "Bullshit" in the post fight interview.

[newport king]

cant believe yeager lost. thought that guy was a lock.

[StanUpshaw]

Tito will come back under a mask and win TUF 11.

[newport king]

good prelims on spike tonight, the kid that beat tyson griffin was pretty impressive.

im saying franklin beats lidell tonight. also looking for a big knockout in the crocop fight.

[newport king]

chuck's done. i think tito can beat him at this point.

[Ritalin]

chuck's done. i think tito can beat him at this point.

He's Glass Joe.

[newport king]

he got knocked out by a guy with a broken arm. thats it. call it a career.

[StanUpshaw]

I have some sort of weird affection for Crocop. I really like it when he shows he still has some teeth.

[Dirtbag]

Fedor taps out in 1:09. The only people happier than me are Werdum and Dana.

[StanUpshaw]

Didn't see that one coming. Obviously neither did he; his willingness to jump into Werdum's guard was downright hubristic.

And not to start off on the inevitable Fedor bashing wave, as I really do love the guy, but I hope this drops him well out of the Top 5 (maybe off the Top 10 entirely); with the level of competition he's taken on since Pride dissolved, compared to the explosion of talent in the UFC, he simply has not deserved to maintain the #1 spot.

[TripleSkeet]

Wonderful. Now maybe hell start fighting real fighters instead of riding his reputation.

[Dirtbag]

And not to start off on the inevitable Fedor bashing wave, as I really do love the guy, but I hope this drops him well out of the Top 5 (maybe off the Top 10 entirely); with the level of competition he's taken on since Pride dissolved, compared to the explosion of talent in the UFC, he simply has not deserved to maintain the #1 spot.
He's still top five for sure

#1 Lesnar/Carwin winner
#2 Werdum
#3-5 Fedor, JDS, Velasquez. I don't know what order I'd put them in.

Wonderful. Now maybe hell start fighting real fighters instead of riding his reputation. The fight with Overeem is down the toilet, so unless he decides to go to the UFC there aren't any "real fighters" left.

[TripleSkeet]

He's still top five for sure

#1 Lesnar/Carwin winner
#2 Werdum
#3-5 Fedor, JDS, Velasquez. I don't know what order I'd put them in.

The fight with Overeem is down the toilet, so unless he decides to go to the UFC there aren't any "real fighters" left.

Yea, thats pretty much my point. Maybe now hell leave the tin cans and come work with the other top heavyweight mma fighters.

[Ritalin]

I didn't realize how undersized he is. Brock could Matt Hughes him all day.

[StanUpshaw]

#1 Lesnar/Carwin winner
#2 Werdum
#3-5 Fedor, JDS, Velasquez. I don't know what order I'd put them in.


That's crazy. Fedor has had no business being #1 for at least 2 years. Someone beating Fedor should not allow him to leapfrog the entire HW division by virtue of that error. Especially when that person has losses to other top 10 guys.

[Dirtbag]

That's crazy. Fedor has had no business being #1 for at least 2 years. Someone beating Fedor should not allow him to leapfrog the entire HW division by virtue of that error. Especially when that person has losses to other top 10 guys.

I believe that Fedor wasn't exactly facing amazing competition since the demise of Pride, but while Arlovski, Sylvia, and even Rogers aren't exactly world beaters, they are legit HWs. You can't take away a guy's ranking until he loses, retires, or had he spent the last three years doing nothing but facing blown up middleweights and pituitary monsters. And even then, most of these new HWs haven't exactly been beating top competition either:

Lesnar: Herring, Couture, Mir, after a loss and beating probably the biggest can any of these guys have fought.
Carwin: Gonzaga, Mir, scrubs
JDS: Gonzaga, Werdum, scrubs
Velasquez: Nogueira, Kongo, Rothwell, scrubs
Mir: Lesnar, Nogueira, and Kongo sandwiched between two total ass kickings.
Overeem: His top MMA win is Brett Rogers. He's had some fine victories in K-1 but when your major accomplishments are wrecking a 40 year old Kazuyuki Fujita and annihilating Crocop's nutsack, it doesn't make you a great fighter.
By this point, we also know that Gonzaga and Kongo aren't exactly top 10 guys either.

I don't have a problem with Werdum leapfrogging everyone either. He just made Fedor Fucking Emelianenko tap out in just over a minute. His only losses in the last 4 years were to an Arlovski who ran away from him and Junior Dos Santos, and while shocking at the time we now know the guy is a beast.

[Willmore]

Fedor got caught. It happens. His hyper-aggressive gnp works against fighters with limited BJJ, but against Werdum, you just can't leave yourself that open. Fedor's been in that position before, but not against a BJJ World Champion.

Fedor will be back, in fact, now that he has lost, it could be in the UFC. Randy vs Fedor, make it happen, Dana.

[Gutter]

i'm so glad he lost.....thank god. i don't think DW will have any interest in signing him now....Couture is fighting at 205 now so i don't see even signing Fedor making much sense after he's now lost to Werdum, who wasn't good enough to hang in the UFC himself. Good for Werdum though.....the guys been around forever.

[StanUpshaw]

To say that Dana doesn't want Fedor is equally crazy. Now that he's lost, and now that Strikeforce shit the CBS bed, it's likely that he can get him for a realistic price.

[Gutter]

To say that Dana doesn't want Fedor is equally crazy. Now that he's lost, and now that Strikeforce shit the CBS bed, it's likely that he can get him for a realistic price.

do the fans care though now that he's lost? for me the big draw of having Fedor in the UFC was the fact that he was basically undefeated. Now he's not and i think that takes a lot of that mystique away. he should stay in Strikforce, get rid of his M1-Global representation and fight Antonio Silva. He got beat by making a rookie mistake....he literally laid right into that triangle....no way he survives in the UFC if he's making mistakes like that. I'd like to see how he bounces back from the loss before he leaves Strikeforce.

[DOHO@HOME]

This is why MMA is great and so much fun to watch, you never know what's going to happen next anyone can lose at anytime.
I can't wait to see who will be in boston this summer I so want to go and check it out live.

[Gutter]

This is why MMA is great and so much fun to watch, you never know what's going to happen next anyone can lose at anytime.
I can't wait to see who will be in boston this summer I so want to go and check it out live.

the boston card is finalized. it looks awesome actually.....the live event is so much fun, but i hope you have your tix already....i believe they went on sale last friday. if not prepare to spend 200 bucks to sit in the bleeders......good news though is the weigh ins are free and if you go and hang out in town after the fights, you're bound to meet some ppl. Last event i went to live i met Chuck Zito, Jens Pulver, and Kenny Florian. all really cool ppl. Here's the card.


http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/rumors.asp?articleid=11388&zoneid=14

i would fucking love to see this card live.

[StanUpshaw]

do the fans care though now that he's lost? for me the big draw of having Fedor in the UFC was the fact that he was basically undefeated. Now he's not and i think that takes a lot of that mystique away. he should stay in Strikforce, get rid of his M1-Global representation and fight Antonio Silva. He got beat by making a rookie mistake....he literally laid right into that triangle....no way he survives in the UFC if he's making mistakes like that. I'd like to see how he bounces back from the loss before he leaves Strikeforce.

Casual fans know only what the TV hype specials tell them to know. Don't forget that UFC has the entire Pride video library. Clever wording and a flashy highlight reel can still paint him like a monster. When he appeared on free TV, he had nothing but KO wins. No one but the hardcores saw the loss on Showtime.

Among the hardcores, there are definitely some who are shocked and disillusioned, but I think most understand that he was brazen and reckless and it was a huge mistake.

[Gutter]

Casual fans know only what the TV hype specials tell them to know. Don't forget that UFC has the entire Pride video library. Clever wording and a flashy highlight reel can still paint him like a monster. When he appeared on free TV, he had nothing but KO wins. No one but the hardcores saw the loss on Showtime.

Among the hardcores, there are definitely some who are shocked and disillusioned, but I think most understand that he was brazen and reckless and it was a huge mistake.

true true......and it may happen that despite the loss DW will feel as though he's put too much into trying to get Fedor over the years that he'll take him any way he can get him (undefeated or not). I think Fedor really needs to win his last fight on his contract though.

[Dirtbag]

Fedor got caught. It happens. His hyper-aggressive gnp works against fighters with limited BJJ, but against Werdum, you just can't leave yourself that open. Fedor's been in that position before, but not against a BJJ World Champion.

Fedor will be back, in fact, now that he has lost, it could be in the UFC. Randy vs Fedor, make it happen, Dana.

The Legend of Fedor is built in very large part upon the fact that he dove into Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira's guard and proceeded to bounce his head off the mat like a soccer ball for roughly half an hour over three fights. I guess he figured since it worked so well against Big Nog it'd work against Werdum.

[King Imp]

So, in the battle of the big men tonight, who ya got?

If this fight went down almost a year ago before Lesnar got sick, I would have said him, but I have a feeling he won't be 100% and Carwin will take this one. I just hope they pound the shit out of each other and it's not a boring wrestling match.

[StanUpshaw]

I don't know that we have enough data on Carwin to give any real prognostication. We know where Brock's potential weakness is, but it doesn't seem like Carwin is the fighter who can exploit that. Every indication is that Carwin is an older, smaller, less well-pedigreed version of Brock.

[Ritalin]

Good for Bonner. Krystof (?) is a good opponent, and it was a good TKO.

[newport king]

glad bonner got the win. good fighter that puts on good fights. as far as the main event, im going with carwin. lesnar is a beast but 12-0 when nobody has gotten past the 1st rd with him is impressive. i think he might be a little too much for lesnar's first fight back in over a year. akiyama leben should be good but jesus, leben just fought 2 weeks ago???

[newport king]

leben/akiyama is fight of the night. unless brock/carwin double ko each other.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

glad bonner got the win. good fighter that puts on good fights. as far as the main event, im going with carwin. lesnar is a beast but 12-0 when nobody has gotten past the 1st rd with him is impressive. i think he might be a little too much for lesnar's first fight back in over a year. akiyama leben should be good but jesus, leben just fought 2 weeks ago???

the leben fight was retarded. it may be better then lesner's fight.

[newport king]

he had him. if brock wasn't brock that fight would have been stopped in the 1st. but glad it wasn't

[StanUpshaw]

he had him. if brock wasn't brock that fight would have been stopped in the 1st. but glad it wasn't

Yep. Rosenthal is quickly becoming my favorite ref. Those stupid fucking typewriter punches when a guy's covered up should never finish a fight, and I'm really glad he used some discretion. Someone like Mazzagatti undoubtedly would've stopped it.

I figured Lesnar would've been able to weather the early assault better than he did. Both technically and mentally, he looked like was really ill-prepared for getting hit by punches that actually hurt.


It's funny. It seems like we've come full circle and Kerr and Coleman are on the top of the heap once again. Needs more neck cranks.

[TripleSkeet]

Great fight. So glad Lesnar beat him the way he did. The haters are soooooo unhappy right now.

[Serpico1103]

I think it was a good fight. Carwin still showed himself to be a force even in defeat.

[Crippler]

I admit that I fucking HAAAAATE Brock...but giving credit where it's due, him surviving the 1st & getting a tap in the 2nd was an incredible performance. And he even managed not to be a douche in the post fight. Well done, sir!

And with how strong Carwin is, if he couldn't beat Brock who the fuck can?

[Dirtbag]

he had him. if brock wasn't brock that fight would have been stopped in the 1st. but glad it wasn't
Japanese fighters, particularly Sakuraba, got much, MUCH more leeway from refs when in trouble than Brock did tonight. Watch the ridiculous Manhoef/Sakuraba slaughter if you want bad refs. Rosenthal did a fantastic job.
And with how strong Carwin is, if he couldn't beat Brock who the fuck can?Overeem has about the same puncher's chance that Carwin did but would be annihilated even worse once Brock gets on top of him.

The new Brock-hater pick is Velasquez for some reason. He's got better technical boxing and better wrestling than Carwin, but everything he improves on he loses in size and power. And I won't claim to be some amateur wrestling expert, but last I checked NCAA D1 Championship > Junior College National Championship. Brock won't rag-doll him, as he didn't even rag-doll Couture, but he still has a massive size and strength advantage and won't be worried about being knocked into next week like against Carwin.

Amazing card top to bottom tonight. I think the only thing less likely than Lesnar by Submission was Leben by Submission. He's also moving his way into Fujita/Hunt/Cabbage territory with that skull of his.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Last night was incredible. This show lived up to the hype. Their presentation is amazing. All their stuff just was worth the price of admission.

[Fallon]

That might have been my favorite UFC PPV ever, even the prelims had cool shit going on.

Brock is the shit, can't wait for a rematch.

[TripleSkeet]

Japanese fighters, particularly Sakuraba, got much, MUCH more leeway from refs when in trouble than Brock did tonight. Watch the ridiculous Manhoef/Sakuraba slaughter if you want bad refs. Rosenthal did a fantastic job.
Overeem has about the same puncher's chance that Carwin did but would be annihilated even worse once Brock gets on top of him.

The new Brock-hater pick is Velasquez for some reason. He's got better technical boxing and better wrestling than Carwin, but everything he improves on he loses in size and power. And I won't claim to be some amateur wrestling expert, but last I checked NCAA D1 Championship > Junior College National Championship. Brock won't rag-doll him, as he didn't even rag-doll Couture, but he still has a massive size and strength advantage and won't be worried about being knocked into next week like against Carwin.

Amazing card top to bottom tonight. I think the only thing less likely than Lesnar by Submission was Leben by Submission. He's also moving his way into Fujita/Hunt/Cabbage territory with that skull of his.

From what I hear the new hater pick to kill Brock is Los Santos. I like UFC and watch the PPVs and TUF shows but Im not religious about it. Apparently the word on Velasquez is hes a kicker, and much more susceptible to a take down and beat down by Brock because of it.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Obviously, there has to be a rematch. Everyone knows the main reason Brock won is that Carwin gassed himself. Carwin hurt brock. If he paces himself, he could conceivably stop him.

[StanUpshaw]

So after their embarrassing defeats in Strikeforce, both Mousasi and Aoki return to Dream and rip shit up. I hate to say it, but Japan is an MMA backwater anymore (not that this is news to anyone but me).

Mousasi murdering Jake O'Brien...no surprise there.

But I figured Kawajiri, who has more or less a Western style, would be able to bully Aoki and pound him out from the guard. 9 out of 10 times, that might have been the outcome, but this time a slow sprawl allowed Aoki to catch a leg. 9 out of 10 times, Kawajiri might have been able to pull out, but since they were 20 seconds in, there was no sweat to aid his escape. I won't say Aoki got lucky, since he executed his style to perfection, just that Kawajiri is so much better than a 90-second submission loss indicates.

That said, any faith that I had in Japan being a leader (or even competitive) in the sport has entirely dissolved.

Why can't it be 2003 again? :sad:

[StanUpshaw]

Lesnar vs Velasquez in October (http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/07/09/brock-lesnar-vs-cain-velasquez-signed-for-ufc-121/)




Previously, I would've said that Lesnar's kryptonite was jiu jitsu, but now we all know it's simply getting hit in the face by the Incredible Hulk. But according to the Rothwell and Kongo fights, Cain hits like Bruce Banner. I predict an easy win for Lesnar.

[Dirtbag]

Previously, I would've said that Lesnar's kryptonite was jiu jitsu, but now we all know it's simply getting hit in the face by the Incredible Hulk. But according to the Rothwell and Kongo fights, Cain hits like Bruce Banner. I predict an easy win for Lesnar.Yep. The Kongo fight was far more telling for Velasquez than the Nogueira fight. When you punch someone in the head 200 times and they are nowhere near out, it doesn't say good things about your power.

[StanUpshaw]

So did anyone watch the show on Versus on Saturday?

Horrible stoppage in the main event. Yes, the outcome was inevitable, and Matyushenko had no business fighting Jones in the first place, or being anywhere near the top of a UFC card, but at least give the guy a chance. A bunch of "brutal" elbows to the forehead from 3" away? What bullshit.


Also, yay Gomi!

[StanUpshaw]

Next Saturday, UFC 117 is a huge card. I fear Brazil has a good chance of sweeping, but I'm pulling for a Hughes win. And I'm REALLY pulling Sonnen win. I love Roy, but he doesn't belong in the upper echelon. Can't wait!

[King Imp]

Big John McCarthy is back! :clap:

Now we'll finally have a ref again who knows what they are doing and doesn't stop a fight the second someone takes one punch to the face.

[StanUpshaw]

I think Anderson has a very slim chance of knocking Chael out. If it happens, it will be a knee on the shoot. I believe Sonnen will be able to take him down fairly easily, but then...I don't know. Sonnen is not what you'd call a finisher, while Silva is supposedly a BJJ black belt.

I think Chael has a good chance of keeping Silva on his back for 25 minutes, but that is a hell of a long time for someone as susceptible to armbars as Sonnen is.

[smiler grogan]

The Hype Sonnen is spewing certainly is entertaining but I can't see him getting the better of Silva. I know Silva can be frustrating to watch and or deal with but it seems like he is always a split second ahead or his opponent.

[Crippler]

I think Anderson has a very slim chance of knocking Chael out. If it happens, it will be a knee on the shoot. I believe Sonnen will be able to take him down fairly easily, but then...I don't know. Sonnen is not what you'd call a finisher, while Silva is supposedly a BJJ black belt.

I think Chael has a good chance of keeping Silva on his back for 25 minutes, but that is a hell of a long time for someone as susceptible to armbars as Sonnen is.

I think you are dead on, I've been saying that all week when talking about this fight. Either a KO that way or a tap to guillotine while clinched & reaching for a leg.

[Dirtbag]

I'm not convinced Sonnen's sub defense is as bad as its made out to be. His sub losses came against Trevor Prangley, Jeremy Horn, Babalu Sobral, Demian Maia, and Forrest Griffin. All VERY accomplished BJJ guys except Forrest and even he is very underrated, especially when he's not having fists slammed into his face, which isn't exactly Chael's style. I agree that 25 minutes is a very long time for Anderson fucking Silva not to finish a guy, but I wouldn't assume Chael is in huge trouble on the ground.

[StanUpshaw]

I'm not convinced Sonnen's sub defense is as bad as its made out to be. His sub losses came against Trevor Prangley, Jeremy Horn, Babalu Sobral, Demian Maia, and Forrest Griffin. All VERY accomplished BJJ guys except Forrest and even he is very underrated, especially when he's not having fists slammed into his face, which isn't exactly Chael's style. I agree that 25 minutes is a very long time for Anderson fucking Silva not to finish a guy, but I wouldn't assume Chael is in huge trouble on the ground.

Plus Paulo Filho, who caught him in a guillotine, and two armbars.

And he got into submission trouble in the Miller fight (guillotine), the Marquardt fight (guillotine) and the second Prangley fight (kimura), but was able to weather them. And that's only the fights I've been able to see.

[Dirtbag]

Plus Paulo Filho, who caught him in a guillotine, and two armbars.

And he got into submission trouble in the Miller fight (guillotine), the Marquardt fight (guillotine) and the second Prangley fight (kimura), but was able to weather them. And that's only the fights I've been able to see.

D'oh. Filho was one of the few I didn't have to look up and of course forgot to include it. But he's 1-1 against Filho (and the only guy to ever beat him, albeit in one of the strangest fights ever), and even in the fight he lost he was kicking the shit out of him the entire time until he got caught.

[newport king]

Guida vs. Dosanos = Guida
Fitch vs Alves = Alves
Hughes vs Almeida = tough one here. Ill go youth and say Almeida.
Nelson vs DosSantos = how can you NOT root for Big Country?
Silva vs Sonnen = Silva

[StanUpshaw]

Bold=Think will win
Italic=Want to win

Guida vs. Dosanos
Fitch vs Alves
Hughes vs Almeida
Nelson vs DosSantos
Silva vs Sonnen

[Tenbatsuzen]

Man, I haven't seen a dude like Big Country since the early days of UFC when they had to tell us eye gouging was illegal.

Paul Varelans era.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Dos Santos just went all Korean Zombie on Nelson.

[newport king]

good opener. still like roy but he got hit too hard in the 1st and as all heavyweights do got gassed. alot of heart from big country.

[newport king]

matt hughes should just come out and say gracie jiu jitsu is garbage at this point. jesus.

[Tenbatsuzen]

matt hughes should just come out and say gracie jiu jitsu is garbage at this point. jesus.

Grand Theft Oxygen

[newport king]

guida for the win. he's going to go run a marathon now.

[Serpico1103]

Hope silva-sonnen is a good fight. Rather see Silva win, mainly because wrestling ground and pound is usually boring. While, Silva, when not acting like an ass, is an exciting dynamic fighter.

WTF with UFC.com? Site is such a pain to navigate now.

[newport king]

might be alot of people streaming the card from the site

[Serpico1103]

might be alot of people streaming the card from the site

No, they changed the site recently. Seems they tried to make it more exciting and interactive, but really just slow and confusing.

[Serpico1103]

Eh fight. Good ending.

[newport king]

Eh fight. Good ending.

silva got the shit beat out of him for 4.5 rounds and you knew sonnen was going to leave himself open for a submission. fought a brilliant fight and should have coasted that last round.

[Serpico1103]

silva got the shit beat out of him for 4.5 rounds and you knew sonnen was going to leave himself open for a submission. fought a brilliant fight and should have coasted that last round.

Sonnen was dominate, but he didn't do enough real damage, was just grinding out Silva. With Silva's striking and jiu jitsu, the fight is never over. Sonnen played it smart, control him and chip away. But, that only wins rounds, not fights.

Wish they would have stood more, Sonnen had good hands and Silva is always great on his feet.

[newport king]

Sonnen played it smart, control him and chip away. But, that only wins rounds, not fights.


if thats your strategy and you do it EVERY ROUND, you'll win the fight.

he was about 2 minutes away from winning the fight had he not gotten caught. the object of a fight is to win rounds. thus winning the fight if it goes to the judges.

the only time silva looked good in this fight was when they were in the standup in the beginning of every round until sonnen either rocked him with a left or took him down. and yes i think everyone would agree with sonnens previous tapouts silva still had a chance. the entire 5th round all i was saying in my head was "dont get caught, dont get caught"

[Serpico1103]

if thats your strategy and you do it EVERY ROUND, you'll win the fight.

he was about 2 minutes away from winning the fight had he not gotten caught. the object of a fight is to win rounds. thus winning the fight if it goes to the judges.

the only time silva looked good in this fight was when they were in the standup in the beginning of every round until sonnen either rocked him with a left or took him down. and yes i think everyone would agree with sonnens previous tapouts silva still had a chance. the entire 5th round all i was saying in my head was "dont get caught, dont get caught"

I know you can win the fight that way, it is just not interesting to watch.
But, by not finishing the fight, by just winning rounds, you are keeping your opponent in the fight. Double edged sword- take big swings and risk getting caught, stay conservative and allow more time to get caught.

The USA chants were so annoying. I felt like I was watching Rocky IV.

[Tenbatsuzen]

No, they changed the site recently. Seems they tried to make it more exciting and interactive, but really just slow and confusing.

Big logos everywhere?

[Serpico1103]

Big logos everywhere?

Too much of everything. Maybe as I age I fall out of the target demo. But, just have a site that is functional. No one is going to become a UFC fan [after the jump]


because of flashy site. Focus on the sport and not how many banners you can splash across a page. If I want interaction I'll play a video game.

[StanUpshaw]

I'm going to be depressed all day now. So close.

[Serpico1103]

Couture v. Toney.

Thoughts?

How long has Toney been training MMA?

Unless Toney gets in a lucky punch, it will be a quick ground and pound KO for Couture.

[Dirtbag]

This is the first time I've ever been worried about the physical well being of someone getting into the cage with Randy Couture. I kinda hope Randy beats Toney up for a couple rounds before either pulling his head off or knocking him out.

[StanUpshaw]

I have to concur. The fight will last exactly as long as Randy wants it to. I believe he will probably stand up with him for awhile just so Rogan and Goldberg can rattle off some inane shit about how Toney got dominated even in the boxing. Then, when he's ready, he'll decide the fight should be over, and within 30 seconds he'll take him down and choke him out.

I firmly believe that the only reason Dana went after Toney is to utterly destroy the James Toney brand name before some other promotion can sign him and give him the Bobby Lashley treatment.

[TripleSkeet]

I agree. Its a shame. Hes basically putting Couture in with a guy thats half retarded.

That being said, Couture cant fuck around standing up with him very long or he risks eating a Ray Mercer-esque lucky punch KO.

[StanUpshaw]

Don't forget: Sylvia is awful.

[TripleSkeet]

After tonights Strikefarce show, how anyone could take that federation seriously is beyond me. Not that it wasnt entertaining. Some of the highlights...

Bobby Lashley vs The Gravedigger

Neither one of these guys can fight. Seriously. They have no business being in a pro MMA fight. Lashleys got the guy on the floor, has about 100 oppurtunities to submit him, yet tries to punch him out with some of the weakest looking punches Ive ever seen. Not only that, he gets cut under his eye by the guys glove and blood just pours out of him while the announcers dont even mention it! Add that to the fact the referee stood them up while Lashley had him in full mount AND that Lashley called an actual timeout. Oh he also quit after the 2nd round because he was tired. Go back to pro wrestling Bobby.

Gurgel vs. Noons
Holy hilarity. This fight featured a toe to toe battle that saw Noons knock Gurgel flat on his ass with a haymaker after the bell rung....without getting a warning. Then follow that up in the 2nd with 2 blasts that knocked the dogshit out of him. When the ref refused to stop the fight though, he followed that with some punches and an illegal knee to the face as the ref was stopping the fight. Not only was he not reprimanded, but he won the fight and both illegal moves made the highlight reel. The best part was hearing the announcers talk about it while laughing as hard as I was.

Kennedy vs Souza
Actually a pretty good fight.

King Mo vs Fejaio
Ok, I dont get it. Most MMA diehard fans I know HATE pro wrestling. But out comes this monk wearing a FUCKING CROWN and a robe that looks like he stole it from Apollo Creeds dressing room....and they cheer him. It was very nice watching him get his face mauled. But I really dont wanna hear guys ripping Lesnar for being a former pro wrestler when THIS guy is considered an MMA fighter.

Seriously, this promotion is so bush league it looks like its run with the same organization as a backyard wrestling show. How the fuck do people take this company seriously????

[Bob Impact]

Apparently Lashley is in the hospital today, not sure if he's seriously injured or if this is an example of Kristal not knowing that a hospital visit is routine after MMA fights, sounds like the former.

Kristal Marshall posted on Twitter…

Please pray for bobby and our family we just got some very very scary news.

Lashley was knocked out by Chad Griggs on Saturday’s Strikeforce show in Houston.

UPDATED: Kristal just posted: Bobby got admitted he can’t come home…it is very scary they r running lots of tests im Freaking out they r keeping me in the dark
http://www.gerweck.net/2010/08/22/kristal-on-lashley-just-got-some-very-scare-news/

[MIKEYDAKEN]

Apparently Lashley is in the hospital today, not sure if he's seriously injured or if this is an example of Kristal not knowing that a hospital visit is routine after MMA fights, sounds like the former.


http://www.gerweck.net/2010/08/22/kristal-on-lashley-just-got-some-very-scare-news/

it's a work. fedor and batista are gonna run in dressed as doctors and jump him while test are being run.

[StanUpshaw]

...out comes this monk wearing a FUCKING CROWN...

TripleSkkkeet indeed.

[TripleSkeet]

TripleSkkkeet indeed.

I dont get it. Monk is a word we use around here synonymous with douchebag. Get it monk?

[Gutter]

i heard that while Souza vs. Kennedy was a good fight it was one of the worst decisions in the history of the sport.

[StanUpshaw]

i heard that while Souza vs. Kennedy was a good fight it was one of the worst decisions in the history of the sport.

Were you talking to Tim's parents or something?

If you ask me, it was a boring fight and neither one of them deserves a belt for their performance. I'm not about to rewatch it to score it round-by-round, but I was not at all surprised when Jacare won.

[TripleSkeet]

i heard that while Souza vs. Kennedy was a good fight it was one of the worst decisions in the history of the sport.

Kennedy connected on more takedowns and more shots and had a higher percentage...but they were way weaker. At the end of the fight Souza looked like he just took a swim, while Kennedys face looked like he got hit by a car.

[Gutter]

Were you talking to Tim's parents or something?

If you ask me, it was a boring fight and neither one of them deserves a belt for their performance. I'm not about to rewatch it to score it round-by-round, but I was not at all surprised when Jacare won.

No stan.......i wasn't. its just what i heard on the other forum i visit frequently. i don't need a round-by-round for a fight between two guys i know little about...just heard it was a bad decision.

[newport king]

i dont know how people watch boxing after tonight. i know toney is not the best fighter in the world, but jeez. hows about throwing a single punch? frankie edgar is a fucking PROBLEM. other than that this card sucked. glad it wasn't paid for. :thumbdown:

[Dirtbag]

You can't blame Toney for not throwing a punch. Randy stood six feet away from him then used a diving Shinya Aoki takedown. You can blame Toney for having zero takedown or submission defense. I will give him credit for one thing though: he defended the arm triangle better than Shane Carwin did.

[TripleSkeet]

I dont even know how they let this guy fight. He hasnt fought in what? 20 years? Not to mention hes 42 years old, has been training for 9 months and is so punchdrunk he can barely speak. And they fed him to Couture.

It wouldve been more humane to put a retard in the cage with a lion.

[Tenbatsuzen]

i dont know how people watch boxing after tonight. i know toney is not the best fighter in the world, but jeez. hows about throwing a single punch? frankie edgar is a fucking PROBLEM. other than that this card sucked. glad it wasn't paid for. :thumbdown:

This. I hope the paycheck Toney got for basically diving to Couture was worth it. This "fight" was basically Dana saying fuck you to Boxing and nailing the coffin shut.

The most entertaining match was the Davis/Diaz match. Everything else kinda blew. Although UFC has put on a string of impressive PPVs recently.

[Snacks]

You can't blame Toney for not throwing a punch. Randy stood six feet away from him then used a diving Shinya Aoki takedown. You can blame Toney for having zero takedown or submission defense. I will give him credit for one thing though: he defended the arm triangle better than Shane Carwin did.

Exactly, I have read article tonight by MMA athletes and Boxer and trainers and managers from btoh sports and they all said the same thing. Boxer cant win in a MMA ring and a MMA fighter cant win in a Boxing ring. 2 totally different games. You cant expect a guy who never fought on his back to learn how to get up and break away from a career wrestler. If they stood toe to toe and fought boxing rules Toney would have killed Couture.

It all comes down to what you like better. I love boxing and always will. The argument that its gotten boring is bull shit. In boxing you have some boring fights as you do with MMA. Tonights fights were terrible, Edgar killed BJ and Couture fight was a joke. Beating Toney is nothing to be proud of. It was a no win situation for MMA. If Toney wins the fight it looks bad for MMA. By Toney losing it made this card look like a joke skeptical and not a serious more like a circus.

I think its more the fans making it boxing vs MMA. I believe that the fighters in both sports respect each others talents and know they are 2 different sports with 2 very different styles.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I think the worst part about tonight was the video package of Toney training. I knew there was going to be a problem when they showed the same five second clips of Toney punching a guy in full UFC protection gear.

[Dirtbag]

I wonder how much of his pre-fight shit talk Toney actually believed and how much he knew what he was getting himself into and yet was willing to take the ass kicking for the paycheck.

The boxing vs MMA debate has always been stupid, but I am kind of interested in seeing something on a more neutral ground. Not so much with guys who are very heavily reliant on their wrestling/BJJ, but I have wondered how guys like Anderson Silva or Junior Dos Santos would do against top level boxers under K-1 rules. No ground work so they wouldn't totally be fish out of water, but being able to use kicks and knees and (I think) a little more clinch work than traditional boxing could even out the field a little.

[Ritalin]

Why would anyone try to argue the MMA/Boxing thing at all? It's like trying to guess whether a bear would win a fight against a shark or an alligator. It's two completely different things.

I think that fight made Couture look like a clown. He can't be taken seriously anymore, because it wasn't a serious fight.

[Snacks]

Why would anyone try to argue the MMA/Boxing thing at all? It's like trying to guess whether a bear would win a fight against a shark or an alligator. It's two completely different things.

I think that fight made Couture look like a clown. He can't be taken seriously anymore, because it wasn't a serious fight.

Almost everything I have read has said this exact thing. That he shouldnt be celerbrating this win because it was a circus or a joke.

I have said it all along that this actually takes legitimacy away from mma and the UFC because it makes them look like they did this to try to prove their sport is better. What it did was make a spectacle of the sport. Real boxing fans and mma fans know that this meant nothing especially with Toney being the fighter. Even if they got a more athletic, younger faster boxer it still wouldnt work unless that boxer has some sort of wrestling or ground fighting in their past to at least have some knowledge and be able to execute a little.

If boxing does something similar then it better be with a talented, in shape fighter with a boxing back ground or this will be just as bad for them. imagine Couture fighting even Tyson now in boxing rules only fight? I dont care what Couture does as a dirty boxer he would get destroyed and it wont look good for either sport!

[StanUpshaw]

I thought the Lauzon squash was the best fight of the night. Someone coming out with that sort of aggression; someone who was actually trying to win, rather than trying not to lose...it's entirely too rare in the UFC right now. Granted, lack of respect for Ruediger is what allowed him to fight like that, but the performance was appreciated nonetheless.

But yeah, a pretty shitty night overall.

The LW division has nothing to offer me anymore (unless Sotiropoulos ends up being the monster I pray he is...or if Aoki can somehow figure out how to fight American). Other than that, I could give two fucks. Edgar, Maynard, Florian, Melendez, Alvarez...anyone could beat anyone, and it's likely none could finish anyone. It'll end up being musical chairs. There are simply no more dominant fighters at 155.

[StanUpshaw]

In case you haven't noticed, the UFC hasn't had to fight for "legitimacy" for quite some time. It's as mainstream as anyone could have dreamed.

What it comes down to is that the boxing vs. MMA "question" WAS going to be answered at some point. By Dana taking the reins, he could ensure it would be a swift and decisive answer. If he let Strikeforce do it, then they'd give Toney cans like Ruben Villareal, and then this necessary evil would have turned into a genuine spectacle. Instead, it's over and done with.

[TripleSkeet]

That fight was Dana Whites way of telling boxers to shut the fuck up. When youve got guys like Floyd Mayweather saying they wanna try MMA...give me a fucking break. Dont get me wrong, boxings a tough sport and all, but theres not one boxer that could truly hang in the octagon with a decent MMA fighter. Not one. Their fight training is too limited. This is something that has been talked about forever, boxers cant beat wrestlers if they are both allowed to use their own fight set. Even Ali knew this.

So Dana puts him in there with a guy that can pound him for a little bit, and tap him out quickly so maybe other boxers will give it a rest.

Boxing is a dying sport. Its being replaced by MMA and every year that another batch of old timers drop dead is another nail in boxings coffin. They did it to themselves with controversial split decisions designed for bigger paydays, fixed fights, fights that didnt live up to the hype and fight stoppages for the smallest little thing. The reason I like MMA over boxing is because you can see a guy get his face split wide open, bleed everywhere, and as long as hes still fighting they wont stop the fight. Thats what professional fighting is supposed to be about. Boxing doesnt offer that anymore. And thats why its dying. Look at their ppv numbers. They might get 1 in the top 10 now while UFC gets 7-8 every year.

[Snacks]

That fight was Dana Whites way of telling boxers to shut the fuck up. When youve got guys like Floyd Mayweather saying they wanna try MMA...give me a fucking break. Dont get me wrong, boxings a tough sport and all, but theres not one boxer that could truly hang in the octagon with a decent MMA fighter. Not one. Their fight training is too limited. This is something that has been talked about forever, boxers cant beat wrestlers if they are both allowed to use their own fight set. Even Ali knew this.

So Dana puts him in there with a guy that can pound him for a little bit, and tap him out quickly so maybe other boxers will give it a rest.

Boxing is a dying sport. Its being replaced by MMA and every year that another batch of old timers drop dead is another nail in boxings coffin. They did it to themselves with controversial split decisions designed for bigger paydays, fixed fights, fights that didnt live up to the hype and fight stoppages for the smallest little thing. The reason I like MMA over boxing is because you can see a guy get his face split wide open, bleed everywhere, and as long as hes still fighting they wont stop the fight. Thats what professional fighting is supposed to be about. Boxing doesnt offer that anymore. And thats why its dying. Look at their ppv numbers. They might get 1 in the top 10 now while UFC gets 7-8 every year.

Boxing still out buys in ppv, wtf are you talking about? the biggest buys last year were boxing. Thats the problem with this made up argument that boxing is dead. Boxing is far from dead and will never die. MMA is great for younger fan bases that have recently gotten into it. MMA also has great cards, their fights arent just about the main event and I give them credit for that. But to say mma outsells boxing via ppv's is just comical. mma has a ppv every other weak and saturated the market. boxing has a ppv ever month to 6 weeks and sometimes 2 months. they usually on avg sell more ppv's per fight then any mma fight. has an mma fight ever sold over 1 million yet? i think it has done it once!?

The same way no boxer could win in mma, no mma fighter could be a boxer in a boxing match. name one fighter that could beat a boxer? you cant because they are 2 different sports. And to say that this was Danas way to shut boxers mouths is retarded because he took a fat slob who has never fought at 237lbs in his life and put him against a hall of fame mma wrestler! Yeah that'll show em. If I recall the last time something like this happened the boxer knocked out the mma fighter in 2 seconds in a mma fight?! so if anything its 1-1 and no matter what it makes no sense. Most are actually laughing at the UFC for doing this and then to brag about it makes them look even worse because its not a big win its a circus. instead of saying who is better they should be working together to cross promote.

[StanUpshaw]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-per-view
1 7/11/2009 UFC 100 1,600,000
2 7/03/2010 UFC 116 1,280,000
3 12/30/2006 UFC 66 1,050,000
4 5/29/2010 UFC 114 1,050,000
5 11/15/2008 UFC 91 1,010,000
6 12/27/2008 UFC 92 1,000,000


http://squabbles.com/2010/02/the-top-ten-ppv-buys-for-2009-lesnar-vs-mir-leads-the-parade/
Top 10 PPV buy figures for 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

T7. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

T7. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosuke_Nishijima

[Dirtbag]

That fight was Dana Whites way of telling boxers to shut the fuck up.It was more Dana telling James Toney to shut the fuck up, not so much boxing as a whole. Dana is in favor of anything that brings eyeballs, and therefore money, to the UFC, and more than that I think he'd be all for any pro boxer who isn't 42 years old and ridiculously out of shape who wants to take MMA seriously. This will probably be the last time he invites someone into the octagon based solely on name value, but I don't think he's telling boxing as a sport to get lost.

[TripleSkeet]

Boxing still out buys in ppv, wtf are you talking about? the biggest buys last year were boxing. Thats the problem with this made up argument that boxing is dead. Boxing is far from dead and will never die. MMA is great for younger fan bases that have recently gotten into it. MMA also has great cards, their fights arent just about the main event and I give them credit for that. But to say mma outsells boxing via ppv's is just comical. mma has a ppv every other weak and saturated the market. boxing has a ppv ever month to 6 weeks and sometimes 2 months. they usually on avg sell more ppv's per fight then any mma fight. has an mma fight ever sold over 1 million yet? i think it has done it once!?

The same way no boxer could win in mma, no mma fighter could be a boxer in a boxing match. name one fighter that could beat a boxer? you cant because they are 2 different sports. And to say that this was Danas way to shut boxers mouths is retarded because he took a fat slob who has never fought at 237lbs in his life and put him against a hall of fame mma wrestler! Yeah that'll show em. If I recall the last time something like this happened the boxer knocked out the mma fighter in 2 seconds in a mma fight?! so if anything its 1-1 and no matter what it makes no sense. Most are actually laughing at the UFC for doing this and then to brag about it makes them look even worse because its not a big win its a circus. instead of saying who is better they should be working together to cross promote.

Look at the numbers Stan just posted. Face.

And yes, another fighter isnt going to beat a boxer in a boxing match, but no boxer is going to beat these MMA fighters in an actual fight.

That Ray Mercer vs. Silvia fight was for a 2nd rate promotion that loves to see their name value stars beat whoever they can. Ray Mercer wouldnt last 10 seconds with a legit UFC heavyweight because they would never try to throw punches with him.

Pick the baddest toughest most in shape boxer that is boxing right now. Give him 1 year, and put him in the octagon with one of the top 3 UFC guys in his weight class. He wouldnt get out of the 1st round.

Boxers are tough guys, as long as they have to wear those gloves and can only punch. But once takedowns, submissions and kicks are involved...forget it, they cant win that fight. The problem is you dont see guys like Couture or Lesnar saying they want to get in a boxing ring, where there are guys like Mayweather and Tyson saying they want to fight in the UFC. I personally hope Dana White takes every big name boxer that wants to come in and immediately puts them in with someone great who taps them the fuck out in minutes.

Boxing is a dying sport. Get over it.

[newport king]

someone touched on it earlier, boxing fucked itself. horrendous decisions, a million belts, and crooked promoters.

the 1 fight everyone has wanted to see the last 2 years is mayweather and pacquiao, at one point it looked like it was on and then more bullshit.

mayweather isnt even an exciting boxer. fuck boxing.

[newport king]

But yeah, a pretty shitty night overall.

The LW division has nothing to offer me anymore (unless Sotiropoulos ends up being the monster I pray he is...or if Aoki can somehow figure out how to fight American). Other than that, I could give two fucks. Edgar, Maynard, Florian, Melendez, Alvarez...anyone could beat anyone, and it's likely none could finish anyone. It'll end up being musical chairs. There are simply no more dominant fighters at 155.

guess every ppv can't be a gem. next one better have a good undercard. crocop vs mir??? and i heard aldo is moving up after his next fight.

[TripleSkeet]

Most UFC ppvs are worth the money, they really are. Even if the main events dont live up to the hype, usually the undercards are pretty exciting. The last Anderson Silva fight was awesome from top to bottom of the card. The last Lesnar one was too. Overall their worth percentage wise is way higher then boxing and wrestling PPVs.

[Gutter]

I enjoyed saturday's card.....the lauzon fight was awesome and being a jersey native, watching edgar retain his title was incredibly intense the whole time the fight was on. none of us were really sure he would do it again but we were all rooting for him. Couture taking out Toney was expected, but still warranted a sigh of relief. Watching Diaz dismantle Davis was somewhat unexpected for me....i thought Davis would pressure him more. Maia vs. Miranda was a snooze fest and Florian vs. Maynard was just baffling to me.....that did NOT look like the Florian i've seen fight. being a fan of his i was annoyed by his performance. overall i thought it was a good card though.....we've been spoiled the past couple of events, but i wouldn't call this last card terrible by a long shot.

[Dirtbag]

Penn and Florian both screwed up in the same way. They were tentative and afraid to pull the trigger on guys who have almost zero chance of finishing them. Edgar plays keepaway and Maynard plays wet blanket. BJ and Kenny should have just pulled the Vitor/Wandy strategy from Ultimate Brazil. Worst case scenario is they wind up on their backs, and they both have better BJJ than thair opponents.

[Serpico1103]

Almost everything I have read has said this exact thing. That he shouldnt be celerbrating this win because it was a circus or a joke.

I have said it all along that this actually takes legitimacy away from mma and the UFC because it makes them look like they did this to try to prove their sport is better. What it did was make a spectacle of the sport. Real boxing fans and mma fans know that this meant nothing especially with Toney being the fighter. Even if they got a more athletic, younger faster boxer it still wouldnt work unless that boxer has some sort of wrestling or ground fighting in their past to at least have some knowledge and be able to execute a little.

If boxing does something similar then it better be with a talented, in shape fighter with a boxing back ground or this will be just as bad for them. imagine Couture fighting even Tyson now in boxing rules only fight? I dont care what Couture does as a dirty boxer he would get destroyed and it wont look good for either sport!

The difference is, boxing has tried to lay claim to the greatest fighters in the world, the baddest man on the planet, etc. Now, they are being forced to accept that they are just boxers. The heavyweight boxing champion is not the baddest man on the planet, he is the best boxer. Now, an MMA champion can lay claim to being the baddest man on the planet, to being the best fighter in the world.

No one denies that a decent boxer would destroy 99% of the MMA fighters in a boxing ring.

[Willmore]

The difference is, boxing has tried to lay claim to the greatest fighters in the world, the baddest man on the planet, etc. Now, they are being forced to accept that they are just boxers. The heavyweight boxing champion is not the baddest man on the planet, he is the best boxer. Now, an MMA champion can lay claim to being the baddest man on the planet, to being the best fighter in the world.

No one denies that a decent boxer would destroy 99% of the MMA fighters in a boxing ring.

The best MMA fighter is not the baddest man on the planet, he's the best MMA fighter in the world. Just like boxing, MMA has rules that preclude it from being a measurement of anything but MMA fighting ability.

[TripleSkeet]

The best MMA fighter is not the baddest man on the planet, he's the best MMA fighter in the world. Just like boxing, MMA has rules that preclude it from being a measurement of anything but MMA fighting ability.

No. MMA fighting is the best comparison as to what would happen in a real fight. A fight with no rules. Theres not a boxer out there thats going to beat the top MMA fighter in an actual fight. A street fight, just 2 guys going at it. Not one boxer. So yea the best MMA guys out there are pretty much the baddest guys on the planet.

[Willmore]

No. MMA fighting is the best comparison as to what would happen in a real fight. A fight with no rules. Theres not a boxer out there thats going to beat the top MMA fighter in an actual fight. A street fight, just 2 guys going at it. Not one boxer. So yea the best MMA guys out there are pretty much the baddest guys on the planet.

In the army, the first thing they teach you about fighting is to go for the groin - grab a hold of it, and pull as hard as you can. Now, when MMA rules allow that, I think it would be a fair comparison. No knees to a grounded opponent? Soccer-kick to the head is the first thing you do once you get a guy to the ground, not get on top of him to try for a kimura.

[Dirtbag]

In the army, the first thing they teach you about fighting is to go for the groin - grab a hold of it, and pull as hard as you can. Now, when MMA rules allow that, I think it would be a fair comparison. No knees to a grounded opponent? Soccer-kick to the head is the first thing you do once you get a guy to the ground, not get on top of him to try for a kimura.

Not a big Pride fan are you?

[Serpico1103]

The best MMA fighter is not the baddest man on the planet, he's the best MMA fighter in the world. Just like boxing, MMA has rules that preclude it from being a measurement of anything but MMA fighting ability.

Baddest man on the planet, as far as any accepted test of fighting skill goes.

MMA rules get closer to a real world fight than boxing does. Starting with the much smaller gloves.

[StanUpshaw]

Whoever you pick as the "baddest man on the planet," just remember that even he is going to lose a street fight to Anthony Cumia. :wink:

[sailor]

Baddest man on the planet, as far as any accepted test of fighting skill goes.

MMA rules get closer to a real world fight than boxing does. Starting with the much smaller gloves.

Microscopically closer, sure. But both are so removed from a real fight it's silly to make a comparison.

[Serpico1103]

Whoever you pick as the "baddest man on the planet," just remember that even he is going to lose a street fight to Anthony Cumia. :wink:

First person to wet their pants wins?

Anthony would get a stomach ache and cry if he was in a situation that required his CCW.

[Serpico1103]

Microscopically closer, sure. But both are so removed from a real fight it's silly to make a comparison.

Smaller gloves. Takedowns.

Much closer.

[sailor]

Smaller gloves. Takedowns.

Much closer.


Referees. Rules. Not close at all.

[Willmore]

Smaller gloves. Takedowns.

Much closer.

Exactly, closer. MMA, much like boxing, freestyle wrestling, and every other martial art is designed to simulate some but no all conditions of a real fight. None of them are real fights.

Try a suplex on concrete and tell me about your broken hip tomorrow.

MMA isn't alone in this. Target practice is about as removed from a firefight as you can get. Even the test situation that Nave SEALs create to practice their craft isn't the real thing, but it's the best they can do. Can you find out who the best SEAL is by those test exercises? No. Not until it's the real thing, under pressure, with real dangers and risks. And it's the same throughout history. Medieval knights used jousting as a practice for mounted combat. See battle of Agincourt to find out how close that was to the real thing.

MMA is MMA. It's a test of certain skills - wrestling, submissions, stand-up fighting. It is not a test of real-life fight to the death skills. Because, if I'm fighting to the death, I'm using a fucking gun, a knife, anything else I can find as a tool, because I'm not a fucking macaque.

[TripleSkeet]

In the army, the first thing they teach you about fighting is to go for the groin - grab a hold of it, and pull as hard as you can. Now, when MMA rules allow that, I think it would be a fair comparison. No knees to a grounded opponent? Soccer-kick to the head is the first thing you do once you get a guy to the ground, not get on top of him to try for a kimura.

The original UFC was just that. No weight classes, very few rules, I dont even think they had draws. Again, its still alot closer to real fighting then boxing. You think a regular guy can take on an MMA pro in a street fight and EVER be in the position to give the guy a kick in the head??? Not happening.

[StanUpshaw]

Referees. Rules. Not close at all.

Do you think anyone in a real fight would hesitate to stomp someone's face in? Or not expect their face to be stomped in? That's retarded.

An MMA fighter has a huge leg up on anyone else simply because they can practice. You can't exactly drill pulling someone's scrotum off. They have the most experience doing something that most closely resembles a real fight.



Jesus christ this is a stupid argument.

[Serpico1103]

Referees. Rules. Not close at all.

So, you stand as good a chance in a street fight against BJ Penn as anyone else walking the street?
Boxing is far removed. MMA is close.
Exactly, closer. MMA, much like boxing, freestyle wrestling, and every other martial art is designed to simulate some but no all conditions of a real fight. None of them are real fights.

Try a suplex on concrete and tell me about your broken hip tomorrow.

MMA isn't alone in this. Target practice is about as removed from a firefight as you can get. Even the test situation that Nave SEALs create to practice their craft isn't the real thing, but it's the best they can do. Can you find out who the best SEAL is by those test exercises? No. Not until it's the real thing, under pressure, with real dangers and risks. And it's the same throughout history. Medieval knights used jousting as a practice for mounted combat. See battle of Agincourt to find out how close that was to the real thing.

MMA is MMA. It's a test of certain skills - wrestling, submissions, stand-up fighting. It is not a test of real-life fight to the death skills. Because, if I'm fighting to the death, I'm using a fucking gun, a knife, anything else I can find as a tool, because I'm not a fucking macaque.

Of course you wouldn't suplex on concrete. Do you think an MMA fighter can only take you down with a suplex. Randy shot for Toney's ankle, far away from his hands. If they were wrestling he would have shot for his hips, if Randy wasn't so afraid of Toney's hands he would have shot for a knee.

In target shooting someone isn't shooting bean bags at your chest, or tazing you. In MMA someone is punching and kicking you. An MMA fighter would not be adversely affected by an adrenaline rush during a street fight, the way a target shooter would be in a firefight.

The Dog Brothers is full contact stick fighting. They were large helmets. But they go all out. That involves weapons. But, that is a totally different conversation. Does a sniper beat a knife fighter? Silliness.

[Serpico1103]

Do you think anyone in a real fight would hesitate to stomp someone's face in? Or not expect their face to be stomped in? That's retarded.

An MMA fighter has a huge leg up on anyone else simply because they can practice. You can't exactly drill pulling someone's scrotum off. They have the most experience doing something that most closely resembles a real fight.



Jesus christ this is a stupid argument.

This is a major weakness in jiu jitsu versus BJJ. Regular JJ teaches silly arm breaks and techniques that can't be drilled at full speed. All BJJ moves can and are drilled at full speed. So, when you actually need them, you have done them thousands of times at full speed. With JJ a street fight would be the first time you tried that technique at full speed.

[Willmore]

The original UFC was just that. No weight classes, very few rules, I dont even think they had draws. Again, its still alot closer to real fighting then boxing. You think a regular guy can take on an MMA pro in a street fight and EVER be in the position to give the guy a kick in the head??? Not happening.

Where did I say that. Obviously, MMA pros can take me out without it being even close. But let's say that a Gracie goes up against Couture in a no-holds barred fight and in a UFC ring. In the UFC, I would put my money on Couture. Outside, I would go with Gracie. There are a lot of BJJ techniques that are impossible to perform against a person who is undressed and with gloves on your hands.

That's another thing, when have you ever been in a fight with no shirt on?

[Serpico1103]

That's another thing, when have you ever been in a fight with no shirt on?

Ever see Jerry Springer, those WT's lose their shirt at the first sign of trouble. Besides, a shirt isn't a GI. You can't tear a heavyweight gi.

[Willmore]

So, you stand as good a chance in a street fight against BJ Penn as anyone else walking the street?
Boxing is far removed. MMA is close.


Of course you wouldn't suplex on concrete. Do you think an MMA fighter can only take you down with a suplex. Randy shot for Toney's ankle, far away from his hands. If they were wrestling he would have shot for his hips, if Randy wasn't so afraid of Toney's hands he would have shot for a knee.

In target shooting someone isn't shooting bean bags at your chest, or tazing you. In MMA someone is punching and kicking you. An MMA fighter would not be adversely affected by an adrenaline rush during a street fight, the way a target shooter would be in a firefight.

The Dog Brothers is full contact stick fighting. They were large helmets. But they go all out. That involves weapons. But, that is a totally different conversation. Does a sniper beat a knife fighter? Silliness.

Exactly - silliness.

But we're here trying to argue whether a sport with rules is an accurate measurement of the baddest man on the planet.

First of all, how many people train in MMA? How many compete? How many are limited by where they compete and against whom? How many will never compete, despite having the potential to be far better than anyone currently competing?

I'll give you an example. Alexander Karelin - possibly the greatest greco-roman wrestler ever. 6'4", 285 lbs. Trained like a machine, won every fight he was in except for one for something like 20 years. Now, if he trained in MMA, instead of GRW, don't you think he could have been the greatest MMA champion ever? How many top athletes go into sports other than MMA, because that's where the money is?

Take the Brazilians. If you live in a favela, and even train BJJ, do you think that you want to be the next Gracie or the next Kaka?

[Serpico1103]

Exactly - silliness.

But we're here trying to argue whether a sport with rules is an accurate measurement of the baddest man on the planet.

First of all, how many people train in MMA? How many compete? How many are limited by where they compete and against whom? How many will never compete, despite having the potential to be far better than anyone currently competing?

I'll give you an example. Alexander Karelin - possibly the greatest greco-roman wrestler ever. 6'4", 285 lbs. Trained like a machine, won every fight he was in except for one for something like 20 years. Now, if he trained in MMA, instead of GRW, don't you think he could have been the greatest MMA champion ever? How many top athletes go into sports other than MMA, because that's where the money is?

Take the Brazilians. If you live in a favela, and even train BJJ, do you think that you want to be the next Gracie or the next Kaka?

It is a matter of degree. Correlation between being a good pool player and a good street fighter? Very low. Between being a boxer and a good street fighter? Much higher. An MMA fighter and a good street fighter? Much higher than the previous two. Not a perfect 1:1, but getting closer and closer.

Now, you changed the discussion. Of course, MMA doesn't get the best athletes in the world. Does car racing? Polo? Swimming? Skiing? Hockey? Baseball, football, and basketball get all the great athletes. Between school teams, scholarships, and pro potential that is a given. Jordan isn't the best potential basketball player ever, simply the best one to ever actually play.

We are talking the training, not the individual athlete. MMA is multi-faceted. Boxing is one small component.
As far as soccer kicks to the head and groin attacks; be in a position to give one, than talk about their effectiveness.

I think boxing is better prep for a street fight, than traditional karate and TKD. But, MMA and BJJ are much more diverse in their skill set. Muay thai is better then boxing, because it allows clinches, knees, elbows, low kicks. But, it is only one part of MMA.

[Willmore]

It is a matter of degree. Correlation between being a good pool player and a good street fighter? Very low. Between being a boxer and a good street fighter? Much higher. An MMA fighter and a good street fighter? Much higher than the previous two. Not a perfect 1:1, but getting closer and closer.

Now, you changed the discussion. Of course, MMA doesn't get the best athletes in the world. Does car racing? Polo? Swimming? Skiing? Hockey? Baseball, football, and basketball get all the great athletes. Between school teams, scholarships, and pro potential that is a given. Jordan isn't the best potential basketball player ever, simply the best one to ever actually play.

We are talking the training, not the individual athlete. MMA is multi-faceted. Boxing is one small component.
As far as soccer kicks to the head and groin attacks; be in a position to give one, than talk about their effectiveness.

I think boxing is better prep for a street fight, than traditional karate and TKD. But, MMA and BJJ are much more diverse in their skill set. Muay thai is better then boxing, because it allows clinches, knees, elbows, low kicks. But, it is only one part of MMA.

MMA might be the closest, but it doesn't automatically allow one to judge the "baddest man on the planet." Maybe the actual baddest man on the planet is some street punk in some brazilian favela who ends up being a gangster and not a professional mma fighter.

[TripleSkeet]

MMA might be the closest, but it doesn't automatically allow one to judge the "baddest man on the planet." Maybe the actual baddest man on the planet is some street punk in some brazilian favela who ends up being a gangster and not a professional mma fighter.

Well, yea I nmean nothing is guaranteed I think everyone agrees with that. But I think the point was, one on one in a regular fight, the MMA pro is gonna beat the boxers ass 99 out of 100 times.

[Serpico1103]

MMA might be the closest, but it doesn't automatically allow one to judge the "baddest man on the planet." Maybe the actual baddest man on the planet is some street punk in some brazilian favela who ends up being a gangster and not a professional mma fighter.

I don't think they are technically the "baddest man on the planet." My point is, boxing heavyweights have been called the baddest man on the planet. Now, they must concede that to MMA.

Is the world series actually the world series? Miss Universe?

MMA took something from boxing.

[StanUpshaw]

The LW division has nothing to offer me anymore...

So yeah...my new most anticipated fight is in the UFC LW division.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/20567/george-sotiropoulos-vs-joe-lauzon-slated-for-ufc-123-title-shot-may-loom.mma

Which makes UFC 123 a pretty goddamn attractive card in my eyes.

Lauzon vs Slaughteropoulos
Rampage vs Machida
Plus a Matt Brown fight and the return of Karo Parisyan!


I'm going to give serious consideration to attending this one in person.

[Gutter]

So yeah...my new most anticipated fight is in the UFC LW division.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/20567/george-sotiropoulos-vs-joe-lauzon-slated-for-ufc-123-title-shot-may-loom.mma

Which makes UFC 123 a pretty goddamn attractive card in my eyes.

Lauzon vs Slaughteropoulos
Rampage vs Machida
Plus a Matt Brown fight and the return of Karo Parisyan!


I'm going to give serious consideration to attending this one in person.


i think Edgar will absolutely destroy Maynard....Maynard will come with the same snooze fest game plan and fight exactly like he did the first fight. this will be disastrous for him. Sotiropoulos has been looking incredible lately and i'd love to see him fighting Edgar.....that would be a very difficult fight to call.

[StanUpshaw]

So Marquardt is taking pages out of the Sexyama book?

Even if RP had been correct, how stupid can you be to let your guard down like that? He really fucked himself in the ass last night. A win over Marquardt would have been HUGE for a guy like him.



:wub:Cole Miller:wub: after that interview he gave. He is so fucking right, and I hope the Edgars and Maynards of the sport took it as the slap in the face that it was.



I haven't watched the first TUF episode yet, but I can only imagine the looks on the kids' faces who get picked for Koschek's team. Has there ever been such a disparity in the coach's ability/popularity before? Maybe Penn-Pulver, but on that season, I don't think anyone ended up regretting being a Pulver student. I can't fathom what kind of advice Koscheck can offer. "Go back in a time machine and start wrestling when you were 5" or "Never blow dry your hair -- you're just begging for split ends"

[Serpico1103]

So Marquardt is taking pages out of the Sexyama book?

Even if RP had been correct, how stupid can you be to let your guard down like that? He really fucked himself in the ass last night. A win over Marquardt would have been HUGE for a guy like him.



:wub:Cole Miller:wub: after that interview he gave. He is so fucking right, and I hope the Edgars and Maynards of the sport took it as the slap in the face that it was.



I haven't watched the first TUF episode yet, but I can only imagine the looks on the kids' faces who get picked for Koschek's team. Has there ever been such a disparity in the coach's ability/popularity before? Maybe Penn-Pulver, but on that season, I don't think anyone ended up regretting being a Pulver student. I can't fathom what kind of advice Koscheck can offer. "Go back in a time machine and start wrestling when you were 5" or "Never blow dry your hair -- you're just begging for split ends"

Even if Nate was greasing, you don't stop defending completely. Maybe he thought he was in a JJ match for that second, where he wouldn't be in such imminent danger.

The judges need to reward fighters that are pushing the pace. A takedown is meaningless if it isn't followed with anything; unless it is a punishing takedown.

I am not sure how much a role the fighter/coaches play in TUF. The assistants they pick may be more important. I know Shamrock picked an assistant who was a nutrition and exercise coach, but really just a juice head.

[Serpico1103]

Sonnen test positive for PEDs. Now, I am glad he didn't win, so they didn't have to strip the belt from him. (http://middleeasy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2993:so-its-true-sonnen-tests-positive-for-steroids-and-faces-a-year-long-suspension&catid=36:fighters)

[StanUpshaw]

That wasn't his piss, it was a Hispanic guy's.

[Willmore]

Sonnen test positive for PEDs. Now, I am glad he didn't win, so they didn't have to strip the belt from him. (http://middleeasy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2993:so-its-true-sonnen-tests-positive-for-steroids-and-faces-a-year-long-suspension&catid=36:fighters)

Well fuck. I needed someone to root for against Silva. Who's the #1 contender now? Marquardt?

[Serpico1103]

Well fuck. I needed someone to root for against Silva. Who's the #1 contender now? Marquardt?

Winner of Michael Bisping vs. Yoshihiro Akiyama; Nate Marquardt; Winner of Yushin Okami vs. Vitor Belfort (http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/9/20/1700100/striking-while-the-iron-is-hot-why)

Not a fan of Bisping. Akiyama lost recently to Leben. Marquardt and Okami both lost recently to Sonnen, otherwise good records. I'd prefer Marquardt.
Belfort has a history of PED use, so I am not sure White wants to throw him in there right after this, but he is old school UFC and has hands that make every fight exciting.

[StanUpshaw]

I have my fingers crossed for Bisping. I would love to see Anderson splatter his brains all over the cage.

However, the Okami/Belfort winner is probably most deserving.

After that, I'd set up a Marquardt-Shields fight for #1 contendership (assuming Shields wins his debut).
edit: Hmm, looks like Shields is dropping to welter instead.

[Serpico1103]

I have my fingers crossed for Bisping. I would love to see Anderson splatter his brains all over the cage.

I can get behind that.

[Serpico1103]

In the army, the first thing they teach you about fighting is to go for the groin - grab a hold of it, and pull as hard as you can. Now, when MMA rules allow that, I think it would be a fair comparison. No knees to a grounded opponent? Soccer-kick to the head is the first thing you do once you get a guy to the ground, not get on top of him to try for a kimura.

On friday, I hope to get to roll with Igor Gracie. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Gracie) I will try to soccer kick him, after I have thrown him to the ground. If that fails, afterward in the locker room I will try a groin attack.
Wish me luck.

[StanUpshaw]

Oh shit!

Why not Wanderlei???

[Serpico1103]

Oh shit!

Why not Wanderlei???

My goal is to soccer kick every Gracie. Igor is first. I got a late start, they multiply like rabbits, and just as cute.

[StanUpshaw]

I was talking about for Anderson. No one cares about the goings on in your dojo.

[Serpico1103]

Oh shit!

Why not Wanderlei???

I was talking about for Anderson. No one cares about the goings on in your dojo.

Good, I like Wanderlei.
He has been in a slump, but he is an exciting fighter. I think Marquardt also makes sense for expanding the sport. Champions that don't speak English well is bad for marketing.

[Willmore]

On friday, I hope to get to roll with Igor Gracie. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Gracie) I will try to soccer kick him, after I have thrown him to the ground. If that fails, afterward in the locker room I will try a groin attack.
Wish me luck.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2521/martyfeldmanigor.jpg

[Gutter]

Oh shit!

Why not Wanderlei???

Wanderlei is out until February.....i believe its related to the plastic surgery he had which removed massive amounts of scar tissue. I think it was also his personal preference to take a break for a while.

in the meantime its been announced that the winner of Belfort/Okami will be the number 1 contender and will face Anderson Silva in early 2011, possibly also on a Feb. card.

Leben has been rumored to fight Dan Miller on Jan 1st. at UFC 125.

nothing rumored for Marquardt, but i could see him getting the winner of Bisping/Akiyama.

[Willmore]

Wanderlei is out until February.....i believe its related to the plastic surgery he had which removed massive amounts of scar tissue. I think it was also his personal preference to take a break for a while.

in the meantime its been announced that the winner of Belfort/Okami will be the number 1 contender and will face Anderson Silva in early 2011, possibly also on a Feb. card.

Leben has been rumored to fight Dan Miller on Jan 1st. at UFC 125.

nothing rumored for Marquardt, but i could see him getting the winner of Bisping/Akiyama.

Wanderlei post-op picture:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6247/cristianecyborgsantos.jpg

He should ask for his money back.

[Gutter]

^^^^ hahahahahahahaha

actually i've gotta post his real pic, cause he's got this awesome amish beard thing goin on now....check it.

http://mmajunkie.com/dyn/images/fighters/wanderlei-silva-7.jpg

[Gutter]

Belfort out of fight with Okami due to injury.....again. Marquardt steps up to take spot and chance at No 1 contender.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/20741/nate-marquardt-replaces-injured-vitor-belfot-in-ufc-122-headliner.mma

[Serpico1103]

Wanderlei post-op picture:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6247/cristianecyborgsantos.jpg

He should ask for his money back.

Wanderlei, "Does anybody hear me complaining about the breasts?"

[Gutter]

Belfort out of fight with Okami due to injury.....again. Marquardt steps up to take spot and chance at No 1 contender.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/20741/nate-marquardt-replaces-injured-vitor-belfot-in-ufc-122-headliner.mma

man they really threw me for a loop on this one......Belfort was not taken out for injury.....HE WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE FIGHT SO HE COULD FIGHT FOR A TITLE!!!!!!

Brazilian vs. Brazilian for the MW title. can't wait for this one.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=12667&zoneid=13

[Serpico1103]

man they really threw me for a loop on this one......Belfort was not taken out for injury.....HE WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE FIGHT SO HE COULD FIGHT FOR A TITLE!!!!!!

Brazilian vs. Brazilian for the MW title. can't wait for this one.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=12667&zoneid=13

That is crazy. Great fight though. Belfort has fought everyone and has only lost to legends.

[Gutter]

That is crazy. Great fight though. Belfort has fought everyone and has only lot to legends.

werd......i hope his lay off won't be too much of an issue. he's been gone since that Franklin fight last september.

[StanUpshaw]

That's fucking awesome. It's impossible to not love Vitor Belfort, and I really hope he wins. I don't see that happening, but at least I have someone to root for in this fight.


That is crazy. Great fight though. Belfort has fought everyone and has only lost to legends.

Overeem is flattered.

[Serpico1103]

Overeem is flattered.

Good. I don't want to anger that behemoth.
That Belfort would fight him and Silva is amazing.

[StanUpshaw]

IIRC, at least one of them was when Overeem was still trying to be a 205'er.

[Serpico1103]

IIRC, at least one of them was when Overeem was still trying to be a 205'er.

One was at middleweight and one was at heavyweight, if I am reading Wiki correctly.

[StanUpshaw]

Pride middleweight was 205.

[Serpico1103]

Pride middleweight was 205.

That makes sense, I didn't think Overeem would fight at 185.

[Dirtbag]

Quite possibly the worst card ever. Sherk/Dunham and and Serra/Lytle were decent, not great, and everything else was pretty much terrible. I feel bad for Crocop and I fucking hate Greg Jackson's guts.

[Serpico1103]

Quite possibly the worst card ever. Sherk/Dunham and and Serra/Lytle were decent, not great, and everything else was pretty much terrible. I feel bad for Crocop and I fucking hate Greg Jackson's guts.

Very boring. Serra/Lytle had potential, but they didn't have the energy to keep the striking exciting.
I didn't agree with the Sherk/Dunham or Guillard/Stephens decisions.

[TripleSkeet]

Boring night of fights. Dunham got robbed.

[StanUpshaw]

Dream wasn't much better. They started off the night with a James Thompson fight that went the distance for fucks sake. The Aoki fight had some moments, but it wasn't exceptional. And Mousasi just kind of went on autopilot against an opponent who was in way over his head. Then of course Sakuraba went out there and made me very depressed in the way only he can. At least it wasn't as brutal as we're used to.

[newport king]

that card last night was so bad i didnt even feel the need to mention it.:thumbdown:

[Gutter]

I enjoyed the fights on Saturday.....main event was boring and i think when the main event is boring, people tend to think the entire card was awful. There is always so much hype leading up to the main event that when it doesn't deliver, the entire card gets a negative view. I thought Sherk definitely won that fight, but did think Stephens got robbed. Mitrione looked good on the prelims and i was happy for him.....i've turned into a big fan of that dude. Serra vs. Lytle was entertaining, but i didn't know why Serra didn't even attempt a takedown....clearly he was loosing the standup game. Although most of the fights went to decision, i thought they were entertaining aside from the stephens/guillard fight and the Mir/CroCop fight. the KO was nice, but it took 14min of blah to get there. CB Dollaway's submission was awesome.


also enjoyed the Bader/Nog fight......thought Bader did an awesome job and landed some excellent strikes.....found himself in trouble once or twice as well. good fight, and was happy to see Bader continue to climb.

[Gutter]

btw.....who the fuck put "gutterdouche" as one of the tags? sack up and put it in the actual thread instead of being a sneaky little puss putting it the tags.

[walking joint]

gutterdouche

[Gutter]

gutterdouche

dick

[StanUpshaw]

So yeah...my new most anticipated fight is in the UFC LW division.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/20567/george-sotiropoulos-vs-joe-lauzon-slated-for-ufc-123-title-shot-may-loom.mma

Which makes UFC 123 a pretty goddamn attractive card in my eyes.

Lauzon vs Slaughteropoulos
Rampage vs Machida
Plus a Matt Brown fight and the return of Karo Parisyan!


I'm going to give serious consideration to attending this one in person.

And now Hughes-Penn III?

I am fucking pumped for this card.

[Serpico1103]

Overeem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alistair_Overeem) builds on his legend, making quick work of Ben Edwards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Edwards_%28kickboxer%29) in K-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-1_World_Grand_Prix_2010_in_Seoul_Final_16).

[Gutter]

Rich Franklin vs. Forrest Griffin agreed on for Super Bowl weekend card Feb 5th.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=12796&zoneid=13

Jon Jones vs. Ryan Bader too.

[StanUpshaw]

Early Lesnar-Velasquez predictions?

I'm going to say Velasquez wins in an excruciating (for us) boxing match. Cain will stay outside, then jump in to throw 1's or 1-2's, then jump right back out. In rounds 3-5 he will start add low leg kicks. He may eventually buckle Lesnar's lead leg, but likely they will go 5 rounds. Lesnar will fail to take him down, and will blame his loss on an injury suffered in training.

[TripleSkeet]

Cain tries some kicks, Lesnar attacks, Cain cant keep his balance, takedown Lesnar, Velazquez gets pounded, fight over.

Either the 1st or 2nd round its over.

[Dirtbag]

Cain tries some kicks, Lesnar attacks, Cain cant keep his balance, takedown Lesnar, Velazquez gets pounded, fight over.

Either the 1st or 2nd round its over.

Pretty much this. Cain's only real shot is the Frankie Edgar strategy. But for better or for worse, Brock Lesnar is not BJ Penn and he will not stand there and take it.

[King Imp]

This makes me a happy boy. :thumbup:

Arianny Celeste in Playboy (http://www.wwtdd.com/2010/10/arianny-celeste-is-naked-in-playboy/)

[StanUpshaw]

Each picture will have her either waving or blowing kisses to the camera.

The ring card girls are about the douchechilliest part of any UFC show. Well...after the gladiator opening vignette.

[Gutter]

Each picture will have her either waving or blowing kisses to the camera.

The ring card girls are about the douchechilliest part of any UFC show. Well...after the gladiator opening vignette.


I would rather see Arianny in Hustler or penthouse haha.


i still love that opening.....apparently someone high up at Zuffa does too.....they've changed the graphics during the PPV four or five times now and that gladiator intro has remained. I wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade, but i love that operatic tune.

[newport king]

cain will be cautious early brock will brocksmash him to the ground then hopefully rip his head off and punt it to the 15th row.

[cougarjake13]

is the fight this weekend ??

[newport king]

not the lesnar fight no. there is a card this weekend though. bisping akiyama.

[Dirtbag]

What is it about Michael Bisping that makes guys not want to fight? It was the same as his fight against Chris Leben. Akiyama could have taken anything Bisping was throwing at him and just waded in and taken his head off. Instead he chose to stand there and get pawed in the face 500 times.

[Serpico1103]

What is it about Michael Bisping that makes guys not want to fight?

He just makes me not want to watch.
I want to see more of Condit against highly ranked opponents.

[StanUpshaw]

The ring card girls are about the douchechilliest part of any UFC show. Well...after the gladiator opening vignette.

I take it back. Bruce Buffer is the most douchechilliest.

[Serpico1103]

Each picture will have her either waving or blowing kisses to the camera.


This ruined it for me, now I hate their Kiss, Wave, Kiss routine. I never focused on it before.

[newport king]

I take it back. Bruce Buffer is the most douchechilliest.


Id say he's surpassed Michael as the better Buffer.

[StanUpshaw]

Id say he's surpassed Michael as the better Buffer.

I can't even respond to that. That's just insane.

[cougarjake13]

Id say he's surpassed Michael as the better Buffer.

ludicris

[StanUpshaw]

ludicris

Yes, even HE would be better than Bruce Buffer.

[newport king]

at least he isn't jimmy lennon jr.

[Fallon]

Id say he's surpassed Michael as the better Buffer.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iYMP73rl13w?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iYMP73rl13w?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[newport king]

velasquez destroyed him. jesus that was embarassing.

[spoon]

beard didn't bring the fear?

[newport king]

he brought a flying knee, followed by rolling around and a turtle defense on his back. ending in a huge cut with a referee stoppage.