Notes from a filmmaker..."Wow, cops only see a black man" March 2006

[Franklyn]

Happy New Year 2006. Well in hind site I might have took the year off, lol. This is what happened on the day I deposited the budget for this film.

MARCH 2006

So months of story boards, auditions, medical treatments and other exhausting events. let me tell you what happened to me. All the old people in my neighborhood greet me as I go to the bank because it was where I grew up. I got there and deposited our entire budget (which is more money than I have ever handled) into the bank. My bank people know me well and got all excited about the movie and everything. I am flying high.

I walk back to my parents house to see my grandmother but stop to see friends on my block. No one answers so I keep it moving. As I walk out of the driveway. A black Impala rolls up slowly and stops in front of me. My pig detector goes off and I think Fuck.

"Sir can you approach the vehicle"... I'm like "no". One thin blond cop comes out of the car and walk up to me. "Do you live here?" I'm like no. "Do you know who lives here?" I'm like Why? He's like "We have had reports of robberies and..." I'm like, "I guess I fit the description." Blondie gets nervous. We go back and forth like this for awhile and then his big old boy comes out of the car and starts glaring at me.

As he circles behind me. I now stop talking to the first cop, step back and start staring at the one walking. He walks back into the driveway that I came out of.

I'm like (to the blonde cop) I didn't rob my friends house. "What's your name Sir?" I'm like "Franklyn, what's yours?", he doesn't answer but is getting more nervous and looks towards the car. I'm like this scared ass cop is going to shoot me in front of a house I played at as a child. A black woman cop comes out of the car, now mind you I have been speaking calmly and intelligently up till this point. She begins to speak to me in eubonyx. As if the Nigger doesn't understand "white" English.

I'm like "are you kidding me? I have a graduate degree and have had more schooling that any cop ridding in the back seat. I perfectly understand the words that your partner is saying to me. I just feel that unless I am being arrested or am given a reason for this violation of my civil rights I'd rather not cooperate with him. And I don't appreciate you talking down to me. It makes us look bad" (did I mention she was black).

Now tough guy comes out the back yard as says, "How many dogs does your friend got back there!" I'm like "how many did you see?" Blondie now asks me my info. I'm like "why?" The tough guy informs me that "if an officer asks for your ID you must comply." I say "I was not aware of that but since I am not certain I will give my ID."

Now thank God my friends baby's mother comes out and says "Tony! what's going on?" I'm like "these cops are shaking me down and think I robbed your house and put the things in my little obviously empty book bag".

The tough guys is like "You know this guy?" She give the cop a look like didn't you just see me talking to him? Then says "yes". The black cop goes in the car and then Blondie was like "Oh Thank you for being patient".

Now, in all reality by a little while after the black woman came out the car, I must have been screaming. People were coming out of their houses. My voice brought Keisha out after all, so I was less than patient. Now tough guy is like "be on you way". I'm like "no I am staying here until you people leave my block". And I stood there in the cold until that mutherfuca went back into his car a drove off.

The moral of the story is no matter what I do and try to achieve in this world these fuckers are always going to see me as fitting the description. God I hate cops!

Just venting
Franklyn

A month later we start shooting. Happy day! Stay tuned.

[DizzyPeach]

A month later we start shooting.

You didnt have to shoot the guy!

And Franklyn, it's 'my friends baby momma'.
I don't know.. just sounds better :)

[Franklyn]

You didnt have to shoot the guy!

And Franklyn, it's 'my friends baby momma'.
I don't know.. just sounds better :)

hee hee, you so ghetto.

[BodyByNotte]

Hmmm... Why did they make the black female cop ride in the back?

[jauble]

Im thinking about getting into the cop business and Im somewhat blonde. Just pull out your BAC (slowly so they can see your hands...antsy motherfuckers) and say you post on ronfez.net. I'll help get rid of a ticket if you have one at that point.

[jauble]

On a side note...that blows and Im sorry to hear about it.

[DizzyPeach]

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dizzy_peach/ghettoBride.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dizzy_peach/MaidOfHonor.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dizzy_peach/Reception.jpg

THIS is ghetto!

[Franklyn]

HAHAHHAHAAAHHA, I need an inside cop and OMG dizzy. Just OMG

[PatFromMoonachie]

...My pig detector goes off and I think Fuck.

"Sir can you approach the vehicle"... I'm like "no"....


... "What's your name Sir?" I'm like "Franklyn, what's yours?" ...


...I just feel that unless I am being arrested or am given a reason for this violation of my civil rights I'd rather not cooperate with him. ...

...Blondie now asks me my info. I'm like "why?" The tough guy informs me that "if an officer asks for your ID you must comply." I say "I was not aware of that but since I am not certain I will give my ID."

... "these cops are shaking me down and think I robbed your house and put the things in my little obviously empty book bag"....

.... I must have been screaming. People were coming out of their houses. My voice brought Keisha out after all, so I was less than patient...

...I'm like "no I am staying here until you people leave my block". And I stood there in the cold until that mutherfuca went back into his car a drove off.

The moral of the story is no matter what I do and try to achieve in this world these fuckers are always going to see me as fitting the description...

....God I hate cops!

"WOW, Franklyn only sees cops!" <--see what I did there??

It seems "God, I Hate Cops!" was the attitude you went into that situation with and it's not very smart arguing/fighting with cops, it can get you unnessisarily "Shot", "Arrested" or "Killed" ..and I know you're a smart guy so i'm guessing you've had bad experiences with the police in the past and you were reacting emotionally.. but aren't you generalizing about the cops like your "WOW, cops only see a black man!" statement accuses them of doing to blacks, hmmm??

Plus, you have better diction than Orson Welles, I find it hard to believe that the white cops needed a "translator"! :tongue:


- Official Old White Guy Response :bye:

[Franklyn]

"WOW, Franklyn only sees cops!" <--see what I did there??

It seems "God, I Hate Cops!" was the attitude you went into that situation with and it's not very smart arguing/fighting with cops, it can get you unnessisarily "Shot", "Arrested" or "Killed" ..and I know you're a smart guy so i'm guessing you've had bad experiences with the police in the past and you were reacting emotionally.. but aren't you generalizing about the cops like your "WOW, cops only see a black man!" statement accuses them of doing to blacks, hmmm??

Plus, you have better diction than Orson Welles, I find it hard to believe that the white cops needed a "translator"! :tongue:


- Official Old White Guy Response :bye:

You are so right brother! I was already angry from the first moment. In all honesty I have friends that are cops. The problem is trying to remember that after a lifetime of abuse. You are so right though brother. Good Call.

[ChrisTheCop]

Take a deep breath, put yourself in the cop's position and read your own words.

How would the cop's blog read?

It was a beautiful day. The radio had been quiet and I had won the coin toss as to who would sit in the front seat that tour. Jonesy was driving and Smith and I were taking turns making fun of his attempts to even fit behind the steering wheel of that tiny Impala.

We were commenting on how this particular neighborhood had really turned itself around of late; Years ago, it was a hotbed of activity, from drugs and guns to murder. Now the only problems it seemed to have were family disputes, and a recent rash of burglaries. This of course was in large part to the hard work of cops like me, Smith and Jones. But naturally the politicians take all the credit. Whatever. Just then, Smitty pointed out a guy looking into the windows of a neatly trimmed duplex across the street. It didnt appear anyone was home. Smith grew up in the neighborhood, and I walked the beat here for several years as a rookie. Neither of us had ever seen this guy before; He could just be visiting... or could he be a burglar? Only one way to find out.

The guy, a male black in his 30's, carrying a small book bag, starts to walk away from the house now, down the driveway toward the street. Jonesy pulls the car up to him and asks him to approach the vehicle. The guy refuses, but doesnt bolt. Ok...maybe he just wants to see a friendly face... So I step out and ask him a few questions (Do u live around here? Do you know who lives in that house? etc) All of which are met with resistance. This really could be our guy. I know I'm not the only one thinking this because Jonesy now gets out of the car to investigate the house a little closer; make sure there was no entry or attempt.

I try and explain to this guy why he's being stopped, and he's having none of it. I get the usual "youre white so youre a racist" attitude. I'm used to it; even though I work in a predominantly black neighborhood, people always want me to go stop whitey, which I do when he appears, cause he sticks out like a sore thumb around here. But now, unfortunately I'm making sure that this house wasnt burglarized, a fact that if it really IS your friends house, you should appreciate... but no, I'm just a racist.

Smitty gets out and tries to talk to the guy since I'm getting nowhere, and there's obviously a race issue. He gets even louder with her, to the point where this simple stop is attracting onlookers. Jonesy comes back, shaking his head to let me know theres no break in, and says jokingly, "how many dogs does your friend have back there?" Jonesy has been bitten by quite a few dogs in his day, and the fact that he had to go back there with dogs makes me and Smitty smile. Its to the point now where this probably isnt our guy, but nowadays, we have to record every time we stop someone, so I ask this guy for I.D. Even then, he was resistant to cooperate, but finally did. What a prick.

His ID didnt match the name he gave me, and just as I was about to raise this point, a woman came out of the house and called him Tony, the name on the ID. I finish up my report, give him back his ID and tell him, somewhat facetiously, thanks for your patience and cooperation, and tell him he's free to go. He says he's not going anywhere til we leave HIS block. lol. Well, his ID didnt say anything about it being his block, but what are ya gonna do? We all get back in the car, and move on to our next opportunity to be hated for just doing our job.

The moral of the story if that Bigotry comes in all colors.

[Snoogans]

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dizzy_peach/Reception.jpg

this now takes over as the funniest picture ive seen about being "ghetto" from this guy:


http://myspacecomedy.com/images/funny/katrina-beer-loot.jpg

[Franklyn]

Take a deep breath, put yourself in the cop's position and read your own words.

How would the cop's blog read?

It was a beautiful day. The radio had been quiet and I had won the coin toss as to who would sit in the front seat that tour. Jonesy was driving and Smith and I were taking turns making fun of his attempts to even fit behind the steering wheel of that tiny Impala.

We were commenting on how this particular neighborhood had really turned itself around of late; Years ago, it was a hotbed of activity, from drugs and guns to murder. Now the only problems it seemed to have were family disputes, and a recent rash of burglaries. This of course was in large part to the hard work of cops like me, Smith and Jones. But naturally the politicians take all the credit. Whatever. Just then, Smitty pointed out a guy looking into the windows of a neatly trimmed duplex across the street. It didnt appear anyone was home. Smith grew up in the neighborhood, and I walked the beat here for several years as a rookie. Neither of us had ever seen this guy before; He could just be visiting... or could he be a burglar? Only one way to find out.

The guy, a male black in his 30's, carrying a small book bag, starts to walk away from the house now, down the driveway toward the street. Jonesy pulls the car up to him and asks him to approach the vehicle. The guy refuses, but doesnt bolt. Ok...maybe he just wants to see a friendly face... So I step out and ask him a few questions (Do u live around here? Do you know who lives in that house? etc) All of which are met with resistance. This really could be our guy. I know I'm not the only one thinking this because Jonesy now gets out of the car to investigate the house a little closer; make sure there was no entry or attempt.

I try and explain to this guy why he's being stopped, and he's having none of it. I get the usual "youre white so youre a racist" attitude. I'm used to it; even though I work in a predominantly black neighborhood, people always want me to go stop whitey, which I do when he appears, cause he sticks out like a sore thumb around here. But now, unfortunately I'm making sure that this house wasnt burglarized, a fact that if it really IS your friends house, you should appreciate... but no, I'm just a racist.

Smitty gets out and tries to talk to the guy since I'm getting nowhere, and there's obviously a race issue. He gets even louder with her, to the point where this simple stop is attracting onlookers. Jonesy comes back, shaking his head to let me know theres no break in, and says jokingly, "how many dogs does your friend have back there?" Jonesy has been bitten by quite a few dogs in his day, and the fact that he had to go back there with dogs makes me and Smitty smile. Its to the point now where this probably isnt our guy, but nowadays, we have to record every time we stop someone, so I ask this guy for I.D. Even then, he was resistant to cooperate, but finally did. What a prick.

His ID didnt match the name he gave me, and just as I was about to raise this point, a woman came out of the house and called him Tony, the name on the ID. I finish up my report, give him back his ID and tell him, somewhat facetiously, thanks for your patience and cooperation, and tell him he's free to go. He says he's not going anywhere til we leave HIS block. lol. Well, his ID didnt say anything about it being his block, but what are ya gonna do? We all get back in the car, and move on to our next opportunity to be hated for just doing our job.

The moral of the story if that Bigotry comes in all colors.




I appreciate you version of the story but there are a few main flaws.

" Smith grew up in the neighborhood, and I walked the beat here for several years as a rookie. Neither of us had ever seen this guy before; He could just be visiting... or could he be a burglar? Only one way to find out."

I grew up in the neighborhood and still spent two to three days there every week. Also the cops from our neighborhood are not allowed to work in the neighborhoods they grew up in. I don't know why but have heard that from my friends who are on the force. About walking the beat...the summer before myself and my company had taken part in a concert to ease tensions between the police and the people in my neighborhood. I know the local police.

"His ID didnt match the name he gave me, and just as I was about to raise this point, a woman came out of the house and called him Tony, the name on the ID. "

There is no way for you to know this but my name and address does match that on my ID. I did give the same name and the same address. An address a few houses away on the same block I was standing on.

The moral of the story is that in a white neighborhood a person with a book bag coming out of his friends yard is just that. In a black one he is a perp. I find it hard for you to take this point of view after the information that I have presented above is in play. Take a moment and ask if the view that black people have of the police may not be justified. You were ready and did defend the actions of your brethren as defending the neighborhood. The problem is that the neighborhood sees you as the problem. Yes there are people who are criminals and YES they are amazing officers, but when you begin to see every member of a community as a possible suspect, you loose the ability to protect.

[Franklyn]

But in all honesty I do thank you for showing your side of this tense issue for me.

[ChrisTheCop]

You ask me to see it from your side, but because of a few factual flaws in my fictional blog, you refuse to see any other side but yours??? I thought I made a pretty good argument. And I wouldve thought for a filmmaker, youd appreciate my artistic license to play with a few minor facts while keeping the gist of the tale intact.

I dont know your real name; but in the story, you tell the cops your name is Franklyn...but someone who knows you calls you Tony...forgive my confusion.

You know all the local cops...ok...then how come they didnt know YOU? They were blinded by your blackness? Racism clouded their long term memories?

I'm the most liberal cop youre ever gonna meet, but cmon. Does racism exist in the police department? YES. Is EVERY action taken by the cops a racist action? NO.

Youll notice not once in my fictional account, did I have these fictional cops call you an N word... Yet, in your Real Life account, you have no problems calling them pigs, and making a blanket statement on your hate for cops.

If you thought you were being harassed, you shouldve reported it back in 2006. But to carry this for 2 years, and still refuse to listen to a reasonable counterpoint... thats just self destructive. If these cops were racist, theyve harmed you way more than they ever intended.

Get over this one, and wait for something really wrong to happen.

[Franklyn]

As you probably saw the whole blog is a recap of blogs and notes from the filming of the movie. All the accounts are from the time period. That is what I felt that moment.

As for not seeing your side. I felt that I did and thanked you for taking the time to write your thoughts.

As for waiting for really bad things to happen...my life has been plagued with moments of false accusations. My life as well as the life of many of my minority friends. I will also go as far as to say that when I was young, white friends were constantly stopped leaving my neighborhood. They were often told that white people in this neighborhood are buying drugs.

Now again, not saying that race dictates ALL the behavior of ALL cops but to say that these things should be let go is insulting to people who live under siege in their eyes. When I can feel the way you feel about the people who police us, it will be a great day. I am sure that minorities do not want to live in fear and with hatred of police. But until police can relate to those people it is hard for that to happen. You are asking the victims to understand the system that breeds their attackers.

Again. I know cops that are good people but that uniform represents more than just the soul of one man. It represents all the good and bad done in it.

[ChrisTheCop]

...and yet people choose to remember only the bad.

A few years back, I parked my car, got out, and an unmarked car screeched to a halt in front of me, and 2 detectives got out, both with guns pointed at me, telling me to get on the ground. I immediately got on the ground, albeit while shouting "I'm on the job--I'm on the job"... My heart was pounding while one guy pressed my shoulder into the ground and rifled thru my pockets, looking for, and thankfully finding, my police ID.

They let me up, and explained that a guy fitting my description, and my car's description, had just robbed a supermarket 3 blocks away. I wished them luck and we all went about our business.

Come to think of it... one of those guys was hispanic. Ok, youre right-- all hispanics are bad.

[TheMojoPin]

...and yet people choose to remember only the bad.

A few years back, I parked my car, got out, and an unmarked car screeched to a halt in front of me, and 2 detectives got out, both with guns pointed at me, telling me to get on the ground. I immediately got on the ground, albeit while shouting "I'm on the job--I'm on the job"... My heart was pounding while one guy pressed my shoulder into the ground and rifled thru my pockets, looking for, and thankfully finding, my police ID.

They let me up, and explained that a guy fitting my description, and my car's description, had just robbed a supermarket 3 blocks away. I wished them luck and we all went about our business.

Come to think of it... one of those guys was hispanic. Ok, youre right-- all hispanics are bad.

That was perhaps the worst attempt of all time to debunk the "guilty of being black."

Yes, sometimes it's just a mistake and race was incidental. Far too many times, however, race has been shown to be THE issue. Was it here? Who knows? But you accidentially being called out like that couldn't possibly explain away or excuse the countless times authority figures pull the kind of crap Franklyn thinks may have very well happened.

Of course, I'm probaly just letting my own biases get in the way.

[ChrisTheCop]

Please read the whole thread before interjecting inappropriate commentary.

ok..mojo edited as I replied... but again, I'll ask that you read Franklyn's initial story.

Did the police have a right to initially stop Franklyn to see if he had a purpose being near a house that wasnt his? YES.
Did Franklyn's actions and responses perhaps make the police more suspicious of him? YES.
Is Franklyn's the only ADMITTED prejudice in his story? YES.
Do our tax dollars pay for the police to be proactive and are we more upset when we see them hanging out in the doughnut shop instead of trying to fight crime? YES.

[Franklyn]

you know the more I read it all I feel we both are on similar sides. You want me to see what you see in your profession and in you and your reasons for what you do. I want you to feel the way I do. The fact is that the history we both have makes it hard for us to do so.
I understand your story about yourself but I hear it and get angry. You tell it and it is meant to relate.
This is a problem. This is the problem. Until I can see through your eyes and you through mine we are going to have to keep striving. I have grown in the years but am not where it is you want me to be. I can not comment on where you are right now but I sense that you are not racist and are more angry that I can't see the good in cops. Am I correct in this thought?

[ChrisTheCop]

You may be correct as to why we cant see each other's points of view.

However, the fact that you say, " I sense that (altho you are a cop) you are not a racist" is, to me, the equivalent of me saying, "altho youre black, you seem to be well spoken" or "for an asian, he's awful at math" or " for a girl, she's really strong".

As a white cop, I am constantly having to explain to people that what I'm doing at the moment is not because I'm a racist, but because it's my job. "Sorry, but you fit the description" has become a joke in the African-American community, but guess what? Maybe you do! If a perpetrator of a crime is a male black wearing all black...who are we supposed to stop? Female Hispanics wearing all white?

Racist acts do occur in the police community. In the NYPD. Hell, maybe even in my precinct. But if the police arent even allowed to stop someone they feel may be committing a crime for fear that he'll be psychologically harmed, just because he's of a certain race... thats simply ridiculous to me. In this incident, thats all that happened. They stopped you. No guns. No beating. No curses or racial slurs. They stopped you, identified you and let you go on your merry way. Was it an inconvenience? Was it perhaps embarrassing for you? Yes. But the cops in this incident were doing their jobs, it appears to me.

This is not a Tom Cruise movie. We dont have magical beings telling us who's good and who's bad. Sadly, the only way we can protect a community is to (gulp) interact with them. Sometimes we hit. Sometimes we miss. But to call every miss a racial incident cheapens those incidents that really are.

[Franklyn]

You may be correct as to why we cant see each other's points of view.

However, the fact that you say, " I sense that (altho you are a cop) you are not a racist" is, to me, the equivalent of me saying, "altho youre black, you seem to be well spoken" or "for an asian, he's awful at math" or " for a girl, she's really strong".

As a white cop, I am constantly having to explain to people that what I'm doing at the moment is not because I'm a racist, but because it's my job. "Sorry, but you fit the description" has become a joke in the African-American community, but guess what? Maybe you do! If a perpetrator of a crime is a male black wearing all black...who are we supposed to stop? Female Hispanics wearing all white?

Racist acts do occur in the police community. In the NYPD. Hell, maybe even in my precinct. But if the police arent even allowed to stop someone they feel may be committing a crime for fear that he'll be psychologically harmed, just because he's of a certain race... thats simply ridiculous to me. In this incident, thats all that happened. They stopped you. No guns. No beating. No curses or racial slurs. They stopped you, identified you and let you go on your merry way. Was it an inconvenience? Was it perhaps embarrassing for you? Yes. But the cops in this incident were doing their jobs, it appears to me.

This is not a Tom Cruise movie. We dont have magical beings telling us who's good and who's bad. Sadly, the only way we can protect a community is to (gulp) interact with them. Sometimes we hit. Sometimes we miss. But to call every miss a racial incident cheapens those incidents that really are.



I can agree with this. especially my words although you're a cop. I want to apologize about the assumption that you would be racist. But saying that profiling is racist is not saying every incident with the cops is racist. That said it doesn't make stopping a person on their block good detective work either. I think the basic common decency aspect is what you are missing in my aurgument.
In another neighborhood I think the scene would have gone quite different. I would have been asked if I heard about what was happening in the area, the information on where I lived would have then been retrieved during a pleasant and non intimidating or intimidated situation. I have seen this happen. The problem you really aren't addressing is the years of tension in our community towards yours. The fact that police in richer white neighborhoods treat people differently. I know, I live in a rich white neighborhood now and it is different. The police here are not walking on edge. The people here aren't living in fear of being policed. That is a fact that has to really be looked at. People have hate that is bread from fear. You will rarely have a person discuss these feelings honestly with you. A few post ago you mentioned people policing areas they are from. I think that would be a start.

[ChrisTheCop]

I appreciate that we can have this discussion here, and I thank you for your thoughts.

I am sure there are many people on this board, no matter what their race, but perhaps especially African-Americans, who have had less than pleasant encounters with the police.

I guess my main problem with the incident at hand is this; you say you believe if it had happend in another neighborhood, it wouldve been more pleasant and the police would have explained the reason for the stop:

A black Impala rolls up slowly and stops in front of me. My pig detector goes off and I think Fuck.

"Sir can you approach the vehicle"... I'm like "no". One thin blond cop comes out of the car and walk up to me. "Do you live here?" I'm like no. "Do you know who lives here?" I'm like Why? He's like "We have had reports of robberies and..." I'm like, "I guess I fit the description." Blondie gets nervous. We go back and forth like this for awhile and then his big old boy comes out of the car and starts glaring at me.

It appears that in this instance it was you that was rude, and that even by your own recollection the police were indeed polite and explained themselves. They were met with a less than cooperative young man.

Had you approached the vehicle, and explained immediately what was going on... this wouldve been a 1 minute stop, and the police wouldve been gone. But you chose to prolong your misfortune by instigating a conflict. Had these cops been truly racist, the story mightve ended a bit more sadly, more violently. I know you feel you dont have to explain yourself to the cops, but they DIDNT know who you were....had you explained it to them they wouldnt have even gotten out of their car... perhaps.

This story couldve easily been peppered with some slaps against the head, a nightstick against your throat, some "boy" comments... something. But you described an event that, TO ME, just isnt that bad. I',m sorry I feel that way.... but I do. They explained the reason you were stopped. They even explained the law to you about producing ID to a law enforcement officer. Besides not being stopped, what more could you ask? This was a text book encounter.

What if it wasnt you that was in the driveway? What if it was the burglar and the cops didnt stop him? What if he got in your friend's house? What if he ran into your friend's girlfriend and attacked her? Ok...I'm sounding like a Hillary campaign ad, but you see where I'm going. They were doing the job we pay them to do.

As for the years and years of evil conflicts, on both sides I might add, I agree; its been terrible. But I'm simply addressing THIS scenario, which pales in comparison to others we both have heard.

[GregFromBuffalo]

Great discussion gentleman...very well done on both sides...very though provoking....maybe...just maybe...we might be able to get along one of these days

:clap::clap::clap::drunk::smoke::smoke::flush::thu mbup::down::thumbup:

[Franklyn]

I'm glad so many people are reading our conversation. I didn't realize the amount, lol.
You are right that I was upset the second they spoke to me. The problem still remains though. Why was I so angry already?

There isn't a relationship developed in our communities. Three cops in an unmarked car doesn't really sound appealing to many minorities.

You see, this goes back to the problem. When I was a kid I was taught that firemen and police were your friends. Then in the mid eighties I was taught but adults and experience to be fearful and distrusting of police. At this point being an adult I want to walk from point A to point B with out being stopped. I think at this age it is something I should be able to take for granted but yet I can not.

I think we have established that You feel the police did their job and that I feel their job is intrusive and infringes on my civil rights. Even though we have found a common respect, we haven't found and understanding. We really need to discuss the void between our communities somehow.

[Franklyn]

Great discussion gentleman...very well done on both sides...very though provoking....maybe...just maybe...we might be able to get along one of these days

:clap::clap::clap::drunk::smoke::smoke::flush::thu mbup::down::thumbup:

Thank you. I too have hope for estranged sides in our world. I hope more people can discuss with out anger.