John Adams

[El Mudo]

Starts tonight on HBO...anyone else tuning in?


It looks really awesome

[joethebartender]

I'm in. Not by choice...but I'm in.

[smiler grogan]

I'm in, I love the Rev. war period.

[johnniehardrock]

I am gonna watch I hope its good

[Chimee]

I'll be watching.

[JustJon]

I don't have hbo right now. Lemme know if it's worth finding a copy somewhere.

[TheGameHHH]

im watching

[cougarjake13]

I don't have hbo right now. Lemme know if it's worth finding a copy somewhere.

me too

[joethebartender]

I love a movie with a half-time!

[PanterA]

Why are our four-fathers such doubting nancy's? John Adams doesnt think he's good enough until his wife gives his balls back. Even George Washington doubts he can be the man they need to fight the british. Come on, I like to believe that our early leaders had the prowess to take control or this country.

Yet the show was fantastic. :thumbup:

[PanterA]

Cool Thomas Jefferson invented the swivel chair.

[hu flung dong]

i thought it was a great show, and we got a halftime pretty sweet

[TheMojoPin]

Damn, this is like US history porn. GLORIOUS.

[smiler grogan]

south carolina, what a bunch of faggolas

Ben Franklin rocks

[PanterA]

New York were a bunch of mary's too.

[pittphantoms]

So far so good.. I will keep tuning in.

[PapaBear]

I wasn't going to watch it, but it sounds like you guys think it's worth it. I don't feel like messing with OnDemand, so I'm waiting for the 1AM HBOW2 showing.

[TheMojoPin]

Good Lord, this freakin' RULES. I'm so glad I didn't cancel HBO after The Wire wrapped. John Adams is the goddamn MAN, and this series is nailing it.

[led37zep]

Just finished the west coast feed of it. REALLY REALLY liked it. Can't wait to follow this series.

[TheMojoPin]

Ladies and gentlemen, we might officially have our first truly good movie/TV show about the American Revolution ever.

[Kevin]

Good Lord, this freakin' RULES. I'm so glad I didn't cancel HBO after The Wire wrapped. John Adams is the goddamn MAN, and this series is nailing it.

Wait, this is gunna be an entire series? Not just a special?

[PapaBear]

Wait, this is gunna be an entire series? Not just a special?
I think R&F said it would run 7 weeks. I'm loving it so far.

[TheMojoPin]

I'm really frustrated that I hae to wait a week for the next part. I could watch the whole damn thing in one sitting.

David Morse is a perfect choice to play Washington, and I love their portrayal of Jefferson. Everyone is quick to present him as a dashing an boisterous figure, but this is much more true to the man. He only said what needed to be said and let his brilliant writing speak for him. And Tom Wilkinson as Benjamin Franklin? This thing is CLASS.

[Kevin]

I think R&F said it would run 7 weeks. I'm loving it so far.

Sweet, so its like a Mini version of Rome. American Rev style.

[TheMojoPin]

Is thing going through his years as president? I wonder how they'll present the Alien & Sedition Act...that's pretty hard to dress up as aything but awful.

[TheMojoPin]

Sweet, so its like a Mini version of Rome. American Rev style.

I really liked Rome, but, so far, this is infinitely more accurate.

Tom Hanks' track record for producing kickass HB miniseries is pretty stellar...From the Earth to the Moon, Band of Brothers and now this? Then we have Pacific coming up soon and then a series about the JFK assassination...AWESOME.

[PapaBear]

I've always loved all things Revolutionary War. Growing up in my part of VA, there has always been plenty of history that you can actually touch. My town of Winchester has quite a bit of pre war stuff, and closer to Charlottesville, there's even more.

One of the strangest things was during a drive from Charlottesville to Fredericksburg. I was on some rural highway in the middle of nowhere, when I barely spotted a little sign that said "James Madison's grave". I took a hard right into a pasture and down a dirt road. All of the sudden, there was a small family plot.

James and Dolly's graves were there, and there was hardly any kind of typical "landmark stuff". The brick wall surrounding it was crumbling pretty badly, and aside from the names on the graves, you would hardly know it was the final resting spot of anyone so historically important.

[TheMojoPin]

I've always loved all things Revolutionary War. Growing up in my part of VA, there has always been plenty of history that you can actually touch. My town of Winchester has quite a bit of pre war stuff, and closer to Charlottesville, there's even more.

One of the strangest things was during a drive from Charlottesville to Fredericksburg. I was on some rural highway in the middle of nowhere, when I barely spotted a little sign that said "James Madison's grave". I took a hard right into a pasture and down a dirt road. All of the sudden, there was a small family plot.

James and Dolly's graves were there, and there was hardly any kind of typical "landmark stuff". The brick wall surrounding it was crumbling pretty badly, and aside from the names on the graves, you would hardly know it was the final resting spot of anyone so historically important.

Wow, I've never been there. I've always loved going to the plethora of historical sites around VA, so I'll definitely have to track that down the next time I can. That sounds really sad and amazing at the same time.

[PapaBear]

Here you go, Mojo...

LINK (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=661)

The Madison Family Cemetery is stunning as well as historic. It is surrounded by a brick wall with an iron gate marked simply Madison. It is accessible by a dirt road , very isolated and not much changed from the days of the President.

http://static.flickr.com/43/74309423_ac31470e11.jpg

[Chimee]

Is thing going through his years as president? I wonder how they'll present the Alien & Sedition Act...that's pretty hard to dress up as aything but awful.

I'm pretty sure on the behind-the-scenes thing that they did said that the series goes right up until his death.

I love everything about this show so far. I can't wait for next Sunday.

[Kevin]

Anyone else have trouble taking all of these nancy boys seriously? I mean for the love of God, who ever thought of dressing this way..

[TheMojoPin]

Whoa. Generation Kill looks fantastic. Ziggy and Beecher and the team behind The Wire taking on the Iraq War? HBO is suddenly awesome again.

[Kevin]

I really liked Rome, but, so far, this is infinitely more accurate.

Tom Hanks' track record for producing kickass HB miniseries is pretty stellar...From the Earth to the Moon, Band of Brothers and now this? Then we have Pacific coming up soon and then a series about the JFK assassination...AWESOME.

I just meant bringing these characters to life in a series like no one else has ever done. You became a part of Marc Antonys and Ceasers life for a while, even though it wasn't accurate.

[Kevin]

Some re treds thus far.. The Gov from OZ.. Brutus right hand man from Rome.. HBO does a great job and re using their great actors.

[keithy_19]

I hadn't heard of this show at all. I'm not an avid HBO watcher and mostly just watch the documentaries they have.I love history and LOVED band of brothers, and while not dealing with the same thing I will most likely probably like this as well. I will definately have to check it out.

[El Mudo]

I thought it was great. EXTREMELY captivating, especially during some of the debates in the Congress...I literally could not look away.

I like how it also shows how some things really are timeless...whether it be parents yelling at their children for running around while they're trying to have a conversation or the innate conservatism of the American South. This is really good stuff. I also loved the portrayal of Jefferson too as a really quiet reserved type. We like to think of the Founding Fathers as these sort of larger than life Edward Everett type masters of oratory, and its interesting to see them kind of in a "human" light as regular people.

Also loved the portrayal of General Washington. Robert E. Lee was once described as being "cold, and quiet, and grand" and Washington REALLY has that Virginia soldier thing down pat.

Man that smallpox is a bitch huh? yeeeessh

[PopPop]

[QUOTE=PanterA;1659328]Why are our four-fathers- Were they not they were our fore-fathers? Don't mean anything by that, I just had to ask. Sorry to point it out.:sad:

[aceofspades7]

Awesome show - can't wait for next Sunday!

[Thebazile78]

I wasn't going to watch it, but it sounds like you guys think it's worth it. I don't feel like messing with OnDemand, so I'm waiting for the 1AM HBOW2 showing.

OnDemand is going to be the only way I'll be able to watch.

You do realize that this is very strongly based on the David McCullough biography of Mr. Adams, right?

I've known about the miniseries for quite some time now...they had a big advert in the Newark Post Office.

(And I am not making that up.)

[Chimee]

Did anyone else notice that whenever they took a vote, North Carolina was the only people that weren't shown?

[TheMojoPin]

You do realize that this is very strongly based on the David McCullough biography of Mr. Adams, right?

No, we all live under rocks in a cave on Mars and can't read.

Yeah, that was asshole-y of me, but the guy's name is all over this thing, and he's basically providing running commentary on the spots and behind the scenes specials.

[joethebartender]

I can't believe that Paul Giamatti's little boy in the movie grows up to be Anthony Hopkins in "Amistad".

(at least I thought it was funny after telling my wife that)

[Thebazile78]

No, we all live under rocks in a cave on Mars and can't read.

Yeah, that was asshole-y of me, but the guy's name is all over this thing, and he's basically providing running commentary on the spots and behind the scenes specials.

That's not something I would know, seeing as how I haven't caught any of it yet...it's on too late at night for me to watch it and wake up for work in the morning. But, this is the beauty of OnDemand.

[Of course, considering most of the people who post here in general, yes, I truly believe that most of them do live under the landslide the Mars Rover captured on video last week when it comes to stuff like this.]

(And I don't expect anything less of you Mojo. Someone has to do it.)

[Chigworthy]

I've always loved all things Revolutionary War.

Even the gangrenous amputations and lack of disposable tampons?

[Kevin]

Even the gangrenous amputations and lack of disposable tampons?

Especially!

[underdog]

Something bothered me about the first two episodes. John's family was supposed to live on the main road into Boston from Concord, yet they go and look at the harbor of Boston when the ships are in. You can't do that anywhere west of the city, or even anywhere close to the vicinity of where they were supposedly living.

But the show has been great so far, other than that. It's actually making me look up a lot of old stuff that I never knew about. Yay history!

[El Mudo]

Something bothered me about the first two episodes. John's family was supposed to live on the main road into Boston from Concord, yet they go and look at the harbor of Boston when the ships are in. You can't do that anywhere west of the city, or even anywhere close to the vicinity of where they were supposedly living.

But the show has been great so far, other than that. It's actually making me look up a lot of old stuff that I never knew about. Yay history!


I would assume that things were not as built up back then as they are today...its probably that you COULD see that far back in the day

[DoubleJ]

Is thing going through his years as president? I wonder how they'll present the Alien & Sedition Act...that's pretty hard to dress up as aything but awful.

The series will go all the way to his death. It looks like the Alien and Sedition Acts will be dealt with in episode 6, but I don't think the series will try to dress it up.

I'm excited for Alexander Hamilton to arrive on the scene.

[underdog]

I would assume that things were not as built up back then as they are today...its probably that you COULD see that far back in the day

No, its the view that they are on. They are looking into the harbor at the boats at the docks. They'd have to be somewhere East or southeast of the city.

[thepaulo]

McCullough was interviewed on Charlie Rose and mentioned how many notes Tom Hanks showed him that he had made when they first met.....

I feel a real connection to this time in history.....get the goosebumps......

[KnoxHarrington]

The series will go all the way to his death. It looks like the Alien and Sedition Acts will be dealt with in episode 6, but I don't think the series will try to dress it up.

I'm excited for Alexander Hamilton to arrive on the scene.

The McCullough book actually is pretty rough on Adams over the Alien & Sedition acts, as well as other things he did in his Presidency. I would assume that the miniseries will be as well.

[KnoxHarrington]

Also, this miniseries confirms my belief that Abigail Adams is one of the historical women I'd most like to bang.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Abigail_Adams.jpg/461px-Abigail_Adams.jpg

[thepaulo]

gotta go...the making of john adams is on now.....

[El Mudo]

For those of you who dont know, Nabby Adams had a pretty horrible death. She died of breast cancer and had a pretty radical masectomy in the days predating anestesia.

There was an essay on it somewhere but I can't find it to link it

EDIT Here ya go (http://www.shsu.edu/~pin_www/T@S/2002/NabbyAdamsEssay.html)

[Kevin]

What i learned on the John Adams Show today.

Benjiman Franklin was a real douche.


What was re enforced

The French were bigger ladyboys then both the British and American combined..

[douchebagsean]

What i learned on the John Adams Show today.

Benjiman Franklin was a real douche.



The French were bigger ladyboys then both the British and American combined..

Ben Franklin fan since day 1

good point sir good point

[smiler grogan]

not a good episode for Mr. Adams.

Mr Franklin keeps on rocking and rolling though.

[KnoxHarrington]

That amputation scene on the ship was just brutal.

I have a feeling that people would have lived longer back then if they hadn't had any medical care at all, as opposed to giving themselves over to those butchers who called themselves "doctors" then.

[PapaBear]

Why were the French so obsessed with fake facial moles?

[El Mudo]

Ben Franklin fan since day 1

good point sir good point



"Yes sir...I'm hard at it day and night" hahaha
It looks like he patches things up with Franklin though cause it looks like thats who nominates him to serve as the ambassador to the Court of St. James

That scene with him and the old French bag in the tub playing chess was hysterical.

I think they did a very good job of showing the French aristocracy and how out of touch it was with the real world. This was a country where at the time something like 2% of the people controlled something like 98% of the wealth, and was just crying out for revolution. Seeing some of that stuff last night really made it easy to see why that particular revolution was bound to happen. It seemed to me to have a very "late era Rome" feel to it.

That amputation scene on the ship was just brutal.

I have a feeling that people would have lived longer back then if they hadn't had any medical care at all, as opposed to giving themselves over to those butchers who called themselves "doctors" then.


They STILL hadn't learned by the 1880s. President Garfield would have been okay if they had just left him alone, but they went in and opened him up so many times trying to get that bullet out of him that he died of a horrible infection and in great pain. They even bought in that machine that was like a giant metal detector almost to find the bullet, and they thought it had hit where it was, but it was picking up a spring off the bed.

[TheMojoPin]

Why were the French so obsessed with fake facial moles?

To cover up sores from STD's. Same with the powder, too.

Really.

[TheMojoPin]

They STILL hadn't learned by the 1880s. President Garfield would have been okay if they had just left him alone, but they went in and opened him up so many times trying to get that bullet out of him that he died of a horrible infection and in great pain. They even bought in that machine that was like a giant metal detector almost to find the bullet, and they thought it had hit where it was, but it was picking up a spring off the bed.

Even worse, they just kept poking their unwashed fingers up the wound, at one pount even puncturing the protective lining of his liver. His assassin argued at his trial that he hadn't technically killed Garfield and that medical science did him in, but they hung him anyways.

[El Mudo]

Even worse, they just kept poking their unwashed fingers up the wound, at one pount even puncturing the protective lining of his liver. His assassin argued at his trial that he hadn't technically killed Garfield and that medical science did him in, but they hung him anyways.



Meh...Charles Guiteau was a degenerate favor seeker...no one cared about him anyway :tongue:


It DID however lead to massive civil service reform under Chester A. Arthur, and pretty much the end of the older system of patronage

[PapaBear]

To cover up sores from STD's. Same with the powder, too.

Really.
EWWWWW!!! Oh, well. On the bright side, it would be easy to tell which women were "goers".

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Meh...Charles Guiteau was a degenerate favor seeker...no one cared about him anyway :tongue:


It DID however lead to massive civil service reform under Chester A. Arthur, and pretty much the end of the older system of patronage

I'll be sure to enlist your knowledge if a terrorist calling himself "Simon" forces me to defuse bombs by answering riddles while chasing his minion dump trucks through the aqueducts

[joethebartender]

Great episode! Did anyone else find some comic relief in the naval war scene (before the dead guy's leg) When he shot his musket out of the bottom of the ship? Reminded me of this: (foward to about 4:02)

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c0BviO-AsQI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c0BviO-AsQI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[El Mudo]

I'll be sure to enlist your knowledge if a terrorist calling himself "Simon" forces me to defuse bombs by answering riddles while chasing his minion dump trucks through the aqueducts



Did you know he was from right here in New York?

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Did everyone stop posting in this thread just because Ron said this show "suuuuucks" a few days ago?

[TheMojoPin]

Ron's pop culture tastes seems to be taking a turn for the suck lately. Guess the distraction of the merger will do that. This show kicks ass. Scary crazy King George III ruled tonight. And waching David Morse as George Washington take the Oath of Office? This series is amazing.

[Chimee]

The George Washington Oath of Office scene was great.

[Kevin]

Ron's pop culture tastes seems to be taking a turn for the suck lately. Guess the distraction of the merger will do that. This show kicks ass. Scary crazy King George III ruled tonight. And waching David Morse as George Washington take the Oath of Office? This series is amazing.

The detail in this is fantastic...

Although the love scene of John and Abigal was rather uncomfortable..

Its getting to the point that if Tom Hanks name is on anything (producing/creating) I must at least give it and shot.

As far as Ron not liking it.. He is a great radio host, but his word isn't gospel, and he is wrong , very wrong on this.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Love scene? Euuuugh!! I'm glad I was busy building a desk last night instead of watching that shit. Why, I hear the war even ended while Adams was alive! I call bullshit on a bullshit show about bullshit wars that don't even get bullshittingly fought on TV!

Agreed fully w/mojo.

[El Mudo]

Ron's pop culture tastes seems to be taking a turn for the suck lately. Guess the distraction of the merger will do that. This show kicks ass. Scary crazy King George III ruled tonight. And waching David Morse as George Washington take the Oath of Office? This series is amazing.


It is great. The George III scene was INTENSE....its like you didnt know whether he wanted to break down and cry or lunge across the room and grab Adams by the throat, or some combination of the two. The restrained emotions showed by both actors was simply amazing.

The Oath of Office was great too...i liked everyone leaning in when they couldn't hear him speak above a whisper. I also checked out during the love scene...eesh.

I will check out again probably if they follow the story and decide to show Nabby Adams' primitive masectomy...that i will NOT be able to watch

[RhinoinMN]

It is great. The George III scene was INTENSE....its like you didnt know whether he wanted to break down and cry or lunge across the room and grab Adams by the throat, or some combination of the two. The restrained emotions showed by both actors was simply amazing.



The poor attempt at the "curtsy" was intense as well.

I thought that the sex scene was not disturbing or awkward, but almost embarrassing yet joyous.

I didn't follow the time line very well, but how long had it been since he had seen his wife?

[Kevin]

The poor attempt at the "curtsy" was intense as well.

I thought that the sex scene was not disturbing or awkward, but almost embarrassing yet joyous.

I didn't follow the time line very well, but how long had it been since he had seen his wife?

I think like 3 or 4 year after a previous long stint.. I think Abigale said they were together 28 year, 14 of them were apart.

[El Mudo]

Considering he left I believe before Saratoga (which Franklin informed him of the result of when he got there, being that there was a now a Franco-American alliance), which would put it in late 1777, early 1778 when he got to France, and he was still there when the war ended in 1781, and was still there when the peace was signed in 1783, i would put it at a good six or seven years there...I dont know the exact date of when she came to join him, but i would assume it was a couple years after that

[KnoxHarrington]

I actually thought when I first saw that scene that that was really George IV, acting as Regent, because George III had gone batshit crazy by this time, and he did seem kind of younger than I picture George III. But, no, it was George III in that meeting with Adams. He was about 47 years old at the time of that meeting, in 1785. He didn't go permanently insane, and the Regency was not declared, until 1811.

I love the way "The Madness of King George" ends by pointing out that what probably caused George's dementia was a disease called porphyria -- and it went out of its way to point out that the disease is hereditary.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Good show. I got nothin'

[pittphantoms]

I loved the opening night of this show - both episodes - the last two were really not interesting to me at all... and I like history.

[King Imp]

After the war was over, the show did kinda drag for me, but Washington's inauguration gave me goosebumps.

What exactly was wrong with Adams when he was sick? They never explained it as far I as know and then he just got better.

[TheMojoPin]

After the war was over, the show did kinda drag for me, but Washington's inauguration gave me goosebumps.

What exactly was wrong with Adams when he was sick? They never explained it as far I as know and then he just got better.

It's actually not known what exactly he was sick with when he was overseas.

[NickyL0885]

I thought last nights ep was great. Seeing Washington get angry was great. Hamilton is a real asshole. Then having his drunk son call him out b/c he doesnt show love and affection for the family. o man. The preview for next week looks amazing. Only 2 left!!

[TheMojoPin]

Yeah, I really wish this series was longer. The last one was great...love how Jefferson is depicted, and kickstarting his rivalry with Hamilton was fantastic. Great, great portrayal of Washington!

[smiler grogan]

Last nights show certainly brought me back to the series. I am enjoying how they are showing Adams as a flawed man but not a bad one. The family aspect is done just enough for me, the kids are excellent examles of a man who is steadfast in his convictions and demands that his family follow his path. His wife is the obvious exception
there interaction has been fantastic.

Was Hamilton truly this dispicable, or is he this series goat?

[CofyCrakCocaine]

I think Hamilton's coming off as a dick mainly because he's been portrayed by Rufus Sewell, an actor who gets type-cast for his dickery all the time.

That and Hamilton probably was a dick in life. It's why he got shot.

[TheMojoPin]

I think Hamilton's coming off as a dick mainly because he's been portrayed by Rufus Sewell, an actor who gets type-cast for his dickery all the time.

That and Hamilton probably was a dick in life. It's why he got shot.

Hamilton was a dick, but he got shot because Burr was a fucking nutjob.

[smiler grogan]

Hamilton was a dick, but he got shot because Burr was a fucking nutjob.

How dare you besmirch the name of Burr. I challenge you to a deul at twenty paces with fancy little deuling pistols.

[TheMojoPin]

No way! Like a gentleman, I would fire wide, but you'd probably take dead aim.

[Thebazile78]

I am not fully caught up on this show (watched thorugh Ep. 4 straight through using the OnDemand on Saturday)... and I loaned my copy of the McCullough book to my grandmother because I thought she'd enjoy it. (Also because she wouldn't have to worry about renewing it like she would if she were to borrow it from the library.)

Like a couple of other folkse here, I found myself a bit lost in the timeline because some elements I remembered from McCullough were not present ... and because the series only gives you one date at the opening of each episode, so I did find it a bit more difficult to keep track of the passage of years. This bothered me more on a general knowledge level than it did on any other level because I feel the quality of the production is amazing. (I also love the earthiness that the folks have put into re-creating the 18th century...that kind of tangible detail is fascinating.)

The reason I brought up the book is because I think I would like now to go back and read it with the series as a "companion volume" so to speak. It would also anchor me in the timeline a bit more, since I get lost easily in politicking.

It's series like this that make me thank my cable company for OnDemand! (Since we subscribe to HBO, it's free...and I can watch it in HD if I want to.)

[smiler grogan]

No way! Like a gentleman, I would fire wide, but you'd probably take dead aim.
As Ronnie B says take dead aim at the rich boys, if your not one of them were square.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

As Ronnie B says take dead aim at the rich boys, if your not one of them were square.

I always thought that quote of Ron was Ron quoting Bill Murray from some Bill Murray movie quote.

[smiler grogan]

I always thought that quote of Ron was Ron quoting Bill Murray from some Bill Murray movie quote.
yeah, from Rushmore but Ron took it and gave it to High Society during there battle against Sam and Sam.

[KnoxHarrington]

Tonight's episode should be really good -- I'm assuming this week deals with his Presidency, then the final part next week deals with his life after the Presidency. So tonight we get fun stuff like the XYZ Affair, the Quasi War, the Alien and Sedition Acts, and all capped off with the utter clusterfuck that was the 1800 election.

I read some of the chapters on Adams' life after his Presidency. He did live long enough to see John Quincy elected President. There's going to be a scene in Part VII that's probably going to make me blubber like a schoolgirl if it's pulled off. In 1826, John Quincy travelled up to Massachusetts to visit his father, who was well past 90 years old at the time. According to McCollough, there's no record of what John Quincy and John Adams said to each other in that visit, but they did spend quite a bit of time alone together, and it was probably pretty obvious that John wouldn't be around much longer. I'm just gonna be a mess watching that scene, if they depict it.

[Thebazile78]

I am so happy to be caught up ... for once, the OnDemand posted a day after instead of my having to wait until Tuesday.

It's just so nice to be able to watch it on my own schedule. Like right after I get home from work and before I have to surrender the good TV to sports.

[keithy_19]

I read some of the chapters on Adams' life after his Presidency. He did live long enough to see John Quincy elected President. There's going to be a scene in Part VII that's probably going to make me blubber like a schoolgirl if it's pulled off. In 1826, John Quincy travelled up to Massachusetts to visit his father, who was well past 90 years old at the time. According to McCollough, there's no record of what John Quincy and John Adams said to each other in that visit, but they did spend quite a bit of time alone together, and it was probably pretty obvious that John wouldn't be around much longer. I'm just gonna be a mess watching that scene, if they depict it.

The show has been brilliant so far, so I wouldn't put it past them to nail it.

[keithy_19]

It's just so nice to be able to watch it on my own schedule. Like right after I get home from work and before I have to surrender the good TV to sports.

I saw that and I was thrilled with it.

[Kevin]

Just a fantastic end to a fantastic series. Won't say anything until everyone has a chance of watching. Not ashamed to say i did cry at a few of those scenes. Esp with both Abbys.

The next series ior mini movie is very fitting Of how very different things turns out, as it pertains what Adams lived and fought for.

[TheMojoPin]

Man, that was rough. So saaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

SALLY HEMMINGS CAMEO FTW.

[CruelCircus]

Yeah, shed a few tears myself.

They wrapped it up nicely, but I can't help feeling like a little was missing, and I don't know if it was the choices they made to make the show or the fact that Adams just wasn't a thoroughly compelling enough figure to devote 10 hours or so to. (nothing on the War of 1812? I'm sure he must've had some sort of take on that small matter...)

I feel like a Franklin or Jefferson or Washington mini-series would've been much more compelling.

[El Mudo]

Yeah, shed a few tears myself.

They wrapped it up nicely, but I can't help feeling like a little was missing, and I don't know if it was the choices they made to make the show or the fact that Adams just wasn't a thoroughly compelling enough figure to devote 10 hours or so to. (nothing on the War of 1812? I'm sure he must've had some sort of take on that small matter...)

I feel like a Franklin or Jefferson or Washington mini-series would've been much more compelling.


I'm sure he had a "take" on 1812, but by that point he had basically retired from public life, and it really wasn't important to the story the series was trying to portray at that point...that of an aging public figure who was slowly coming to terms with the decline of everything around him, such as his wife and family, and the ideals which he had fought for ("I consider ideals which the Revolution was fought for to be lost forever")

A Franklin or Jefferson series probably would have been more compelling, but the entire point of the Adams mini series was that he was a really important figure we dont REALLY know a lot about. We all can rattle off facts and trivia about the larger standing Founding Fathers, but Adams was a major figure that for whatever reason has been relegated to some sort of popular obscurity....the name is known, but not a lot about the person.

That whole thing really was tough to watch...had to fight to keep it together...especially when the line "I cannot conceive that God would put such a creature on this earth just to live and die like everything else"

Also thought they went a lil over the top with the Sally Hemings...but thats a whole other debate

[Snacks]

it was a great miniseries, but it seemed like the ending was rushed. the last episode was 1 hour the shortest episode of them all. i know hollywood made john adams look better then he probably was but he still seems like he gets no credit and jefferson gets more then he deserves. jefferson seemed more like a lover of france then a of america. he wanted to protect france rather then side with america.

what was that gadget that jefferson was writing with when he wrote note to adams? it looked like it had to pens (not literally pens). it seemed like something to copy everything he was writing exactly how he worte it.

[A.J.]

what was that gadget that jefferson was writing with when he wrote note to adams? it looked like it had to pens (not literally pens). it seemed like something to copy everything he was writing exactly how he worte it.

The polygraph. (http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.monticello.org/reports/interests/polygraph.html) I remember seeing it when I toured Monticello many years ago.

[Snacks]

The polygraph. (http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.monticello.org/reports/interests/polygraph.html) I remember seeing it when I toured Monticello many years ago.

i go to dc often and would love to go on a tour. how far from dc is monticello? how long is the tour and how much do you see?

[A.J.]

Charlottesville is a 100 or so miles south of DC. If I remember right, you tour the first floor of the house only. Jefferson hated stairs so the stairs that go to the upper floor are extremely narrow -- not conducive for tours. The tour of the house therefore wasn't that long. But you also get to walk the gardens and grounds which are nice and the views are spectacular. I think they may have restored the slave quarters too. You can find info here on the Monticello website (http://www.monticello.org/). Here's the visitor info page too. (http://www.monticello.org/visit/monticello_visit_info.pdf)

If you go to Monticello, do yourself a favor and visit the University of Virginia campus. Jefferson designed that and you can easily notice the similarities between Monticello and UVA.

I remember we ate at Michie Tavern (http://www.michietavern.com/dining/index.cfm?CFID=941502&CFTOKEN=33280840&)near Monticello. Good Colonial Southern Food.

[Snacks]

Charlottesville is a 100 or so miles south of DC. If I remember right, you tour the first floor of the house only. Jefferson hated stairs so the stairs that go to the upper floor are extremely narrow -- not conducive for tours. The tour of the house therefore wasn't that long. But you also get to walk the gardens and grounds which are nice and the views are spectacular. I think they may have restored the slave quarters too. You can find info here on the Monticello website (http://www.monticello.org/). Here's the visitor info page too. (http://www.monticello.org/visit/monticello_visit_info.pdf)

If you go to Monticello, do yourself a favor and visit the University of Virginia campus. Jefferson designed that and you can easily notice the similarities between Monticello and UVA.

I remember we ate at Michie Tavern (http://www.michietavern.com/dining/index.cfm?CFID=941502&CFTOKEN=33280840&)near Monticello. Good Colonial Southern Food.

thanks! 1 of my best friends little brothers went to uv and he has asked me to go down to visit. sounds like we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone!

[TheMojoPin]

Also thought they went a lil over the top with the Sally Hemings...but thats a whole other debate

Really? All she was doing was bing by the side of Jefferson's bed as he passed, just like everyone else in the household, and then she cried.

[Kevin]

Really? All she was doing was bing by the side of Jefferson's bed as he passed, just like everyone else in the household, and then she cried.

I think mudo meant because it was being flaunted how close they were by her holding his hand. I don't think that happened.

[TheMojoPin]

I think mudo meant because it was being flaunted how close they were by her holding his hand. I don't think that happened.

Why not? That moment would have been in the privacy of his own home, surrounded by people who were close to both of them, and surely would have been completely aware if the two had been having a longtime affair over decades. Obviously, the specific act was something guessed on by the filmmakers and used simply as a device to demonstrate a relationship between the two, but given the circumstances, it didn't seem at all out of place.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Great final episode. It was painfully short, yet really drove home the whole sense of mortality for ideas and mortals alike. I loved the part where Adams critiqued the portrait by Trumbull. That's gotta hurt your ego.

Had no problem with the Sally Hemmings thing. Didn't see it as over the top, and considering the fact that this series is a dramatization of behind-closed-door scenes peripheral to public historical events, liberties inevitably will be taken. If you wanna factually nitpick, they have the dates wrong with when Adams writes to Jefferson. The event that, according to the show, catalyzes their writing actually took place in 1818, yet the doctor who organizes their correspondences died in 1813. So in fact, they were corresponding five years beforehand. Doesn't bother me at all.

[Kevin]

Why not? That moment would have been in the privacy of his own home, surrounded by people who were close to both of them, and surely would have been completely aware if the two had been having a longtime affair over decades. Obviously, the specific act was something guessed on by the filmmakers and used simply as a device to demonstrate a relationship between the two, but given the circumstances, it didn't seem at all out of place.

Was Jefferson married when he died. I remember hearing that his wife had died. Did he re marry? If he did and had a wife, then id say it was over the top. If he was not, then yea i could def see that happening in closed doors.

[tupper65]

Great final episode. It was painfully short, yet really drove home the whole sense of mortality for ideas and mortals alike. I loved the part where Adams critiqued the portrait by Trumbull. That's gotta hurt your ego.

I really enjoyed that part too. It seems like Adams was the type of person who didn't care much for pomp and circumstance and more about the truth and what was the right thing to do.

What got me was how much of his life he dedicated to his country and never getting the respect that was due him. Always in Washington's and Jeffersons shadow. He lived in the White House while it was still being built and when it was time for him to leave, it seemed like they just called him a cab.

I really appreciated the series about a president and founding father that I knew absolutely nothing about.

[King Imp]

All I can say is thank God surgery had advanced since then. I couldn't imagine living in those times. :ohmy:

[TooLowBrow]

In the final episode, a family suggests that First Couple portraits of John and Abigail would best be hung "in the White House." The Executive Mansion, however, did not become known as the White House until after the War of 1812. This is a discrepancy if the portraits are delivered before that date, which is not made clear.

[TheMojoPin]

Was Jefferson married when he died. I remember hearing that his wife had died. Did he re marry? If he did and had a wife, then id say it was over the top. If he was not, then yea i could def see that happening in closed doors.

His wife was long dead by that point. She died in 1782.

[TheMojoPin]

In the final episode, a family suggests that First Couple portraits of John and Abigail would best be hung "in the White House." The Executive Mansion, however, did not become known as the White House until after the War of 1812. This is a discrepancy if the portraits are delivered before that date, which is not made clear.

They're talking like Madison is still in office at the time, and he was prez up until 1817, so it very easily could have been after the war.

[Snacks]

In the final episode, a family suggests that First Couple portraits of John and Abigail would best be hung "in the White House." The Executive Mansion, however, did not become known as the White House until after the War of 1812. This is a discrepancy if the portraits are delivered before that date, which is not made clear.

madison was president from 1809 - 1817 and they mentioned madison not wanting them in the white house. so it very well could have been after 1812 or maybe they were calling it the white house so that most people knew what they were talking about.

[TooLowBrow]

madison was president from 1809 - 1817 and they mentioned madison not wanting them in the white house. so it very well could have been after 1812 or maybe they were calling it the white house so that most people knew what they were talking about.
i'm sure.
i just happened to see this on wikipedia. another case of that site having poor info

[El Mudo]

Really? All she was doing was bing by the side of Jefferson's bed as he passed, just like everyone else in the household, and then she cried.



Ehhhhhh it just had the feeling to me like it was being "forced" on the audience...like a giant LOOK HERE'S SALLY HEMINGS OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kinda thing going on...it felt over the top in that regard

[TheMojoPin]

Considering she was still alive and very much a part of his life at the end, I'd be more surprised if she wasn't there.

[Kevin]

Considering she was still alive and very much a part of his life at the end, I'd be more surprised if she wasn't there.

Yea, no wife, and she was basically his wife then, i agree.

[CruelCircus]

A Franklin or Jefferson series probably would have been more compelling, but the entire point of the Adams mini series was that he was a really important figure we dont REALLY know a lot about. We all can rattle off facts and trivia about the larger standing Founding Fathers, but Adams was a major figure that for whatever reason has been relegated to some sort of popular obscurity....the name is known, but not a lot about the person.

That's a real good point.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Ehhhhhh it just had the feeling to me like it was being "forced" on the audience...like a giant LOOK HERE'S SALLY HEMINGS OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kinda thing going on...it felt over the top in that regard

I don't think most people considered it an OMG forced moment. I think it was perfectly rational to have her in, she was introduced in such a gentle and quiet manner by the soft-spoken words (even while dying!) of Jefferson in his final scenes. It would have been an insult to completely pretend that she was not there at his deathbed when the evidence indicates that it was a warm relationship.

Considering all the facts that we and McCullough would have had at their command at this point, it seems more than likely that was what was going on behind closed doors. Hardly offensive. I found it more obnoxious when John Adam's son was blowing smoke over it earlier in the episode, but whatever.

Totally unrelated, but I still laugh at the way Ron told that Jerry Lee Lewis story where he set his piano on fire. "Follow smoke N..." :devil2:

[thepaulo]

I always heard that Adams and Jefferson died without knowing the other had died since they died pretty much at the same time....I haven't looked it up though as to what the exact time frame was.....magnificent series.....

[Snacks]

I always heard that Adams and Jefferson died without knowing the other had died since they died pretty much at the same time....I haven't looked it up though as to what the exact time frame was.....magnificent series.....

jefferson died a few hours before adams the same day. ironic that they both died the same day, on 4th of july and the 50th anv of our decleration of independance.

[Kevin]

jefferson died a few hours before adams the same day. ironic that they both died the same day, on 4th of july and the 50th anv of our decleration of independance.

Yea, just weird. It was good that they became somewhat friends again before that.

[Justice4all]

madison was president from 1809 - 1817 and they mentioned madison not wanting them in the white house. so it very well could have been after 1812 or maybe they were calling it the white house so that most people knew what they were talking about.

ok...I am only going by memory (no internet look ups) but I THINK James and Dolly Madison were the first President and First Lady to actually live in the current white house. And during the war of 1812 when the English Army advanced on the capital they had to evacuate the White house. Dolly Madison, again if I remember correctly, preserved several portraits of some former presidents or something of that nature, so it would not burn with the white house.

If it was not the Madisons then it was definately Jefferson who lived in the White House first. But I am almost certain is was the Madisons.


And yes I agree, they seemed ot have skipped right over the War of 1812 and focused on a war that never happened between France and America.

And the last episode was certainly the most emotional and most powerful of the series.

[El Mudo]

ok...I am only going by memory (no internet look ups) but I THINK James and Dolly Madison were the first President and First Lady to actually live in the current white house. And during the war of 1812 when the English Army advanced on the capital they had to evacuate the White house. Dolly Madison, again if I remember correctly, preserved several portraits of some former presidents or something of that nature, so it would not burn with the white house.

If it was not the Madisons then it was definately Jefferson who lived in the White House first. But I am almost certain is was the Madisons.


And yes I agree, they seemed ot have skipped right over the War of 1812 and focused on a war that never happened between France and America.

And the last episode was certainly the most emotional and most powerful of the series.


The White House was not known as The White House until after it had been rebuilt...it was painted white to cover up the damage caused by the British.

Also, there would have been no War of 1812 without the Quasi War, which, again, was more important to the story (since it involved pretty much Adams' entire administration). The achievements of Washington and Adams to keep us out of a war when we CLEARLY were not ready for it are simply remarkable. They were able to delay it for 10-15 years when we were at least able to fight a half assed war instead of a no assed war


And hell....we ALMOST ended up fighting the British AGAIN in the 1840s under the Polk Administration over Oregon and the Northwest...see "54 40 or Fight" (we just ended up picking an easier war to fight with the Mexicans instead)

[tupper65]

And hell....we ALMOST ended up fighting the British AGAIN in the 1840s under the Polk Administration over Oregon and the Northwest...see "54 40 or Fight" (we just ended up picking an easier war to fight with the Mexicans instead)

That was against Santa Ana, right?

What did it take, like a half an hour to beat them (I'm sorry, it's that Texas blood in me).

[Crippler]

Loved the series. Glad to finally see some attention paid to the XYZ Affair. I've had a little tie to this piece of history since I had to write a paper on it in the 10th grade. Everyone in my history class had to draw topics, literally from a hat (football coach was the history teacher). When I pulled the "XYZ Affair" we were already discussing the Madisons in the White House in class, yet no one in class knew what the XYZ Affair was. We had skipped right over it & most of Adams' Presidency.

After doing the research, reading more than necessary on Adams, & delivering the presentation to the class I always remember thinking why didn't we study more about Adams? All I remember on him in US History-I was, "...then John Adams became president, we almost went to war with the French, we almost went to war with the British again, Adams only had one term, Jefferson was next, Adams' son eventually became President too, isn't that nice."

Makes me wonder how long the list is of fascinating people in history that we barely touch on in our schools these days?

[Thebazile78]

....

Makes me wonder how long the list is of fascinating people in history that we barely touch on in our schools these days?

Miles and miles long.

I really did enjoy the series as well, and will re-read the book when my grandmother has finished it.

Truthfully, I was pleased that some of my "illusions" about Mr. Adams (which mostly came from his portrayal by William Daniels in the film version of the musical 1776) were incorrect and he was a fascinating character.

I've rarely been one to read nonfiction on my own, so this was a pleasure. When the series is released on video, I think I will give a copy to my grandparents so they can enjoy it too.

Lastly, the only part of this last episode that truly made me cringe was Nabby's mastectomy. I know that someone on here (Mudo?) already prepped us about her breast cancer, but, god DAMN, I could almost feel that gutting knife in my own side. No anaesthetics, no antibiotics and primitive surgical tools. No understanding of the lymphatic system or how cancers spread. OUCH! Several of my close friends are breast cancer survivors, which is a term unheard of even as few as 40 years ago. Anybody know how old she was when she passed? She didn't look much past 40 in the series, but I can't remember if it was mentioned in the book.

Well-done series, I think. If I have the time before 5/18, I think I may watch all 7 episodes back-to-back before the OnDemand expires.

[tupper65]

According to Wikipedia, she was 48

[Thebazile78]

According to Wikipedia, she was 48

I want a real source.

Wikipedia isn't fact-checked as thoroughly as I'd like.

[Melissa the Accountant]

I want a real source.

Wikipedia isn't fact-checked as thoroughly as I'd like.

Before the series began, I read the essay about Nabby's struggle with cancer (http://www.shsu.edu/~pin_www/T@S/2002/NabbyAdamsEssay.html) (I think someone else linked it too, but here it is so you don't have to go looking). According to the quoted excerpt of the letter her father wrote to Thomas Jefferson announcing her death, she was 46.

[Thebazile78]

Before the series began, I read the essay about Nabby's struggle with cancer (http://www.shsu.edu/~pin_www/T@S/2002/NabbyAdamsEssay.html) (I think someone else linked it too, but here it is so you don't have to go looking). According to the quoted excerpt of the letter her father wrote to Thomas Jefferson announcing her death, she was 46.

That's a real source.

It's still too young, even for the early 19th century.

And I think it was Mudo or Mojo who linked it earlier; I could search it. (I love the 2.0 search function.)

MUCH better than Wikipedia.

[El Mudo]

That was against Santa Ana, right?

What did it take, like a half an hour to beat them (I'm sorry, it's that Texas blood in me).

Yes....it was a relatively brief war, but still not without significance (there was a very good documentary on it on The History Channel not too long ago hosted by Oscar De La Hoya). Pretty much every important Civil War general saw combat there, and the siege and capitulation of Chapulatpec is one of the more sad stories you'll read about. The Mexicans even had an entire battallion of American deserters at their disposal (mostly composed of Irish Catholics, the San Patricios). It was one of "those things" that threatened to start the Civil War before 1861, and it led to the eventual French takeover of Mexico in 1863. I would say its clearly the most unpopular war we've ever fought....EVER.



After doing the research, reading more than necessary on Adams, & delivering the presentation to the class I always remember thinking why didn't we study more about Adams? All I remember on him in US History-I was, "...then John Adams became president, we almost went to war with the French, we almost went to war with the British again, Adams only had one term, Jefferson was next, Adams' son eventually became President too, isn't that nice."



Because there's really nothing about him that makes him "stand out"...he's completely overshadowed by his contemporaries like Washington and Jefferson. We remember Washington because he is the "father of our country" and we remember Jefferson for being a great thinker and writing the Declaration of Independence. It doesn't take away from what Adams did during his life, it just expresses more of the magnitude of what Washington and Jefferson did during theirs

[Aggie]

I'm so late to the party on this one but we just watched the whole thing this weekend and it was fantastic!!! I wish there were more of these types of series. Now I want to read/watch more Revolutionary War stuff. Any suggestions for other good books or shows?

[biggirl]

Rhino caught the whole series when it aired, but I only caught a few parts. I bought the book at Sam's Club, hoping to start it soon.

[El Mudo]

I'm so late to the party on this one but we just watched the whole thing this weekend and it was fantastic!!! I wish there were more of these types of series. Now I want to read/watch more Revolutionary War stuff. Any suggestions for other good books or shows?

The History Channel runs a miniseries called "The Revolution" every so often...its a pretty good series if you don't know too much about the era. It last ran over the 4th of July weekend, but they seem to run it pretty often.

Link (http://www.history.com/content/revolution)

(Its also available to purchase on DVD if you wanna go that route)

This is a pretty good book about the Revolution in the Carolinas and in the South

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...SH20_OU01_.jpg

Link (http://www.amazon.com/Road-Guilford-Courthouse-Revolution-Carolinas/dp/0471327166)

This is an amazing book that I learned a ton from (especially how the guerrilla war in New Jersey was in the eventual success of the Revolution)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ShU-zQQqL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Link (http://www.amazon.com/Washingtons-Crossing-Pivotal-Moments-American/dp/019518159X/ref=pd_sim_b_13)


This is a great book about Saratoga, which was one of the brightest (and saddest) moments of the entire conflict

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZFGEFNHFL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg


Link (http://www.amazon.com/Saratoga-Turning-Point-Americas-Revolutionary/dp/0805061231/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247691654&sr=8-3)

And you would probably wanna read McCullough's book on John Adams, which is what the series was based on

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XCKwCqAZL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Link (http://www.amazon.com/John-Adams-David-McCullough/dp/141657588X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247691994&sr=1-1)

I'll take a look around my books here and recommend some more stuff if I got any

[TheMojoPin]

McCullough's book 1776 is definitely a great place to start for anyone who's not too familiar with the era.

Plus I gotta push the Left of center stuff:

http://img.infibeam.com/img/ca35a0f7/408/4/9780060004408.jpg

[Aggie]

I knew I could count on you guys. Thanks! Those should keep me busy.

[El Mudo]

McCullough's book 1776 is definitely a great place to start for anyone who's not too familiar with the era.

Plus I gotta push the Left of center stuff:

http://img.infibeam.com/img/ca35a0f7/408/4/9780060004408.jpg



Ah.....I never get tired of grad students :lol::lol: