O&A behind in satellite "ratings"

[NewYorkDragons80]

Howard Stern 100 on Sirius is the most listened to channel on satellite, with a 0.04 AQH rating and a cume of 1,210,000 listeners 12+. His Stern 101 channel has a 0.01 AQH and a cume of 501,100. Over on XM, Opie & Anthony's Virus channel pulls in a 0.01 AQH 12+, with a cume of 171,300.
FMQB article (http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=672010)

I really think the show is at a good point now. They've really moved past the over-prepared shows they were doing when they first got to K-Rock, and they're getting some momentum with the celebrity interviews and the overall discussions. Why are they doing so poorly in the ratings? Does anyone else think these numbers aren't accurate?

[Tenbatsuzen]

FMQB article (http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=672010)

I really think the show is at a good point now. They've really moved past the over-prepared shows they were doing when they first got to K-Rock, and they're getting some momentum with the celebrity interviews and the overall discussions. Why are they doing so poorly in the ratings? Does anyone else think these numbers aren't accurate?

It's a possibility. Arbitron is very weak system of determining who listens. Howard had a nationwide built-in audience before he went to Sirius, O&A did not.

Look at the numbers of users at Wackbag and here, arguably the #1 and #2 202 messageboards. RF.net has about 30,000 members, Wackbag has close to 50.

171K, to me, is awfully low.

[RhinoinMN]

It's a possibility. Arbitron is very weak system of determining who listens. Howard had a nationwide built-in audience before he went to Sirius, O&A did not.

Look at the numbers of users at Wackbag and here, arguably the #1 and #2 202 messageboards. RF.net has about 30,000 members, Wackbag has close to 50.

171K, to me, is awfully low.

you are on to something. SternFanNetwork has 167K members. I think they have a few other boards with much much smaller numbers, but O and A do too.

[docgoblin]

They're putting O&A and Stern head-to-head by satellite numbers only. From 6-9 more than half of O&A's audience is on the FM side. I'm sure if Arbitron included those numbers the gap would narrow. The numbers are just so far apart to make sense. I could see Stern doubling (maybe even tripling) O&A's audience but according to those figures he's drawing almost ten times more listeners. It seems almost impossible.

[K.C.]

FMQB article (http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=672010)

I really think the show is at a good point now. They've really moved past the over-prepared shows they were doing when they first got to K-Rock, and they're getting some momentum with the celebrity interviews and the overall discussions. Why are they doing so poorly in the ratings? Does anyone else think these numbers aren't accurate?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think the only people who ever equated O&A to Stern in terms of audience pull were O&A.

And I'm not bashing the show by saying that....audience pull doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of the show.


I think the Stern number is actually surprisingly low as well...that's WAY off the numbers he used to throw around about how many people would follow or did follow him to Sirius.

[Tallman388]

I think this also relates to how each company accounts for their listeners. Part of the problem with Sirius is how they account for their subscribers, they include anyone who buys a new car and gets a free year. Last time I checked XM doesn't include these consumers until they actually subscribe and pay. So with that being said, Sirius could be providing these numbers just to show that they're getting some return for giving Stern all that cash & stock.

[KnoxHarrington]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think the only people who ever equated O&A to Stern in terms of audience pull were O&A.

And I'm not bashing the show by saying that....audience pull doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of the show.


I think the Stern number is actually surprisingly low as well...that's WAY off the numbers he used to throw around about how many people would follow or did follow him to Sirius.

I have never gotten why the listenership numbers for these shows is relevant in any way. I mean, "Two And a Half Men" is watched by far more people than ever watched "The Sopranos", and no one who isn't a total moron would say that that makes it a better show.

I only care about ratings to the extent that the ratings are good enough to keep the show on the air. Beyond that, who gives a fuck.

[K.C.]

I think this also relates to how each company accounts for their listeners. Part of the problem with Sirius is how they account for their subscribers, they include anyone who buys a new car and gets a free year. Last time I checked XM doesn't include these consumers until they actually subscribe and pay. So with that being said, Sirius could be providing these numbers just to show that they're getting some return for giving Stern all that cash & stock.

XM does that to some degree too...my brother bought a car five years ago and has had free XM ever since, because of some arrangement they had.


I have never gotten why the listenership numbers for these shows is relevant in any way. I mean, "Two And a Half Men" is watched by far more people than ever watched "The Sopranos", and no one who isn't a total moron would say that that makes it a better show.

I only care about ratings to the extent that the ratings are good enough to keep the show on the air. Beyond that, who gives a fuck.

Completely agree.

[OGC]

I don't remember being polled. And I hardly ever forget being polled.

[TeeBone]

Beyond that, who gives a fuck.

I bet O&A do, regardless of how they spin it. By every measure given, Stern is beating the crap out of them. That being said, at their worst; O&A is a far more entertaining show than Stern at his best.

[ToLEEdo]

rating matter b/c it allows they to sell more and higher priced advertising. Which means we don't have to listen to the awful commercials if they have better ratings.

Also, since there is a merger in the works they want to have a good showing to prove their worth. Which worries me because Fungus and XMU were both rated very low.

[ryno1974]

The biggest reason that O&A numbers are so low is because their show is shit. I have no idea if Stern is any better, but he cant be any worse. 3 guys laughing at their own jokes and keeping a bit going for weeks on end may turn the odd listener off.

I have no idea how O&A are billed higher than R&F on 202. Mind boggling.

[Death Metal Moe]

I did one of those Arbitron diary things.

I wouldn't trust much that comes out of them. Not saying that to say either set or numbers is wrong but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't accurate.

[MobCounty]

On the west coast, nobody knows who the hell OnA are. However, they all know who Stern is. From my perspective, there is no marketing for the boys that gets out of the EST time zone.

[Grizzlor]

Stern starred in his own movie (it sucked) and had that E! show for many years every night of the week. TV and film trumps radio in terms of reach. Also, the three biggest things in radio are right-wing mud-slinging, anything in Espanol, and mindlessly repetitive top 40 music shows.

[scottinnj]

My opinion is that these numbers are satellite listeners only. O and A used to kick Howard's ass the first year he was on Sirius and there was no FM component to keep O and A listeners from buying XM.

In the past couple of years as well, Sirius has done a much better job at marketing their service on television ads then XM has.

XM is the General Motors of radio. The best product, but won't let anyone know they are better then Toyota, or Sirius, I mean.

[underdog]

The biggest reason that O&A numbers are so low is because their show is shit. I have no idea if Stern is any better, but he cant be any worse. 3 guys laughing at their own jokes and keeping a bit going for weeks on end may turn the odd listener off.

I have no idea how O&A are billed higher than R&F on 202. Mind boggling.

I like taking opinions about O&A from people who don't listen to O&A. It makes perfect sense.

And O&A are "billed" higer than R&F because more people listen to O&A than R&F.

XM is the General Motors of radio. The best product, but won't let anyone know they are better then Toyota, or Sirius, I mean.

XM is overpriced and breaks down a lot?

[DukeFett]

4 people I know, myself included have bought new cars recently, and have only received 3 months of XM service with the car. I wouldn't really include those as subscirbers either, I didn't get any word of a 5 year deal or anything like that for my purchase. Either way, this is a ratings survey, it shouldn't matter if you're subscribed or not.

These ratings matter b/c as someone said, in a merger, does 1 service really need 2 competetive morning radio shows? If anything I'd hope they move O&A to afternoons or something like that just to keep them on the air. R&F have a lot more to worry about IMO. I'm not gonna kid myself and say that quality matters in the business. R&F have like 20-30 minutes of commercials per show, tops? That's not exactly a lot of revenue and half the the spots are for XM stuff.

I didn't have XM before O&A were on FM as well, did they have similar commercial breaks as they do now, or were they like R&F breaking maybe every hour? Also, I really have no idea, when O&A were on WNEW, were they ever syndicated? Was XM their first national broadcast?

Someone mentioned how they don't include the FM numbers in these ratings, and they shouldn't. That's a completely different ballgame, they're trying to grasp the # of just satellite users. You might as well include z100's morning zoo ratings in here if you're gonna include O&A's FM ratings.

From what I've heard Sirius and XM have fairly the same # of subscribers (With XM w/ a lead, here I guess there you can bring in whether you should count someone who got it for free, but if they're giving away a year of sirius, I think that's different than XM's 3 months). Sirius got people for stern, and that's it. I can't think of someone who'd buy a radio service for NFL, or any other minor stations they have there. XM on the other hand wasn't built on O&A's name. I really wouldn't expect them to have as many listeners.

[Dude!]

if O & A dropped the O
it would be
a listenable show

[conman823]

Its gotta be the CBS deal affecting the numbers. When I get home in the morning I usually listen to OA on 92.3 because is convenient to just hit the remote while I make breakfast instead of booting up the computer. Either way you can count Stern out, those are some pretty big nmbers to put up for a sat exclusive show.

Also replays on sat have got to affect it also. How many people listen live vs. Afternoon drive?

[Cleophus James]

if O & A dropped the O
it would be
a listenable show
Shouldn't you be over at wackbag?

[Crispy123]

The O&A show rocks. I dont buy these numbers, Arbitron is a good name for it since it seems very arbitrary. The boys have been on fire lately with some good guests and I like the chemistry between all of the shows on XM202 (of course 1 has to be a favorite and that goes without saying, except I just said it).

[ryno1974]

if O & A dropped the O
it would be
a listenable show

Amen brother. Amen.

[Jughead]

The O&A show rocks. I dont buy these numbers, Arbitron is a good name for it since it seems very arbitrary. The boys have been on fire lately with some good guests and I like the chemistry between all of the shows on XM202 (of course 1 has to be a favorite and that goes without saying, except I just said it).


Ditto..........

[JustJon]

I'm looking forward to the Orbitcast report on Arbitron

[Marc with a c]

why would arbitron skew the numbers? i'm sure they used the same system for sirius and xm maybe o&a aren't as popular as people think.

[TeeBone]

maybe o&a aren't as popular as people think.

It's true. Try calling in, you'll NEVER hear a busy signal.

[Gvac]

why would arbitron skew the numbers? i'm sure they used the same system for sirius and xm maybe o&a aren't as popular as people think.

If you listened today, you would've heard E Lo explain why the numbers are a lie.

Even Opie thanked him for being such an excellent spin doctor.

[Marc with a c]

It's true. Try calling in, you'll NEVER hear a busy signal.

i just did.



earl answered

[JPMNICK]

i just did.



earl answered

what did you expect after 7pm it is his apartment

[K.C.]

Its gotta be the CBS deal affecting the numbers. When I get home in the morning I usually listen to OA on 92.3 because is convenient to just hit the remote while I make breakfast instead of booting up the computer. Either way you can count Stern out, those are some pretty big nmbers to put up for a sat exclusive show.

Also replays on sat have got to affect it also. How many people listen live vs. Afternoon drive?

From what I understand, Stern's show plays 24 hours a day on one of his channels. So I don't think the replays really affect the discrepancy.

And I can't imagine the there's a lot of people who fall into the category you do as far as listening on regular radio goes. Maybe in New York...but O&A aren't even in a lot of markets. They've been out of Philly for a while.

Stern just has a bigger pool to draw from right now. O&A have to build their fanbase.

[K.C.]

i just did.



earl answered

Did you apologize for waking him up?

[Marc with a c]

what did you expect after 7pm it is his apartment

thanks for explaining the joke baldo

[TeeBone]

i just did.



earl answered

LOL (seriously, I laughed out loud)

[marcpsych]

i just did.



earl answered

He probably had a mouthful of chicken when you called and then sucked the marrow out a wingbone while you were still on the phone.

[K.C.]

He probably had a mouthful of chicken.

Baked, not fried.

[ryno1974]

From what I understand, Stern's show plays 24 hours a day on one of his channels. So I don't think the replays really affect the discrepancy.

And I can't imagine the there's a lot of people who fall into the category you do as far as listening on regular radio goes. Maybe in New York...but O&A aren't even in a lot of markets. They've been out of Philly for a while.

Stern just has a bigger pool to draw from right now. O&A have to build their fanbase.

Fuck man, O&A are on for 18 hours a day. Not too far from 24 hours a day. Thats all we need is to have them bump R&F for another 3 hours.

[MobCounty]

why would arbitron skew the numbers? i'm sure they used the same system for sirius and xm maybe o&a aren't as popular as people think.

I have to wonder the same, if it ever got out that they were unreliable, they would be out of a job.

That said, it is easy to imagine how ONA listenership is split across FM and XM, and that fact cuts the number down..

[NewYorkDragons80]

Its gotta be the CBS deal affecting the numbers. When I get home in the morning I usually listen to OA on 92.3 because is convenient to just hit the remote while I make breakfast instead of booting up the computer. Either way you can count Stern out, those are some pretty big nmbers to put up for a sat exclusive show.
I totally agree. I don't doubt that Stern is on top in terms of listeners, perhaps even double that of O&A as someone else here suggested. However, Stern and Sirius are synonymous with each other while XM seems to rely on baseball and O&A are relegated to backburner status. Not to mention that Stern literally carried his listeners direct to Sirius, while O&A were on a year and a half-long hiatus before coming to XM. I *do* think the terrestrial deal hurts the satellite ratings, but probably not as much as O&A say they do. If O&A were on in more major east coast cities, I'd say the terrestrial thing is worth continuing. Get on in DC, Philly, and Miami and that's something to build on. I'm not trying to be a hater, but is it worth it to gain notoriety in 4 major cities?

[Marc with a c]

has xm seen a significant bump in subscribers since o&a went to fm?

[DukeFett]

That said, it is easy to imagine how ONA listenership is split across FM and XM, and that fact cuts the number down..

Would everyone agree that the vast majority of XM and Sirius units are in cars? I can't imagine anyone who's got XM in their car who would listen to 92.3 or some other station that carries O&A instead of XM (even though in the past I have heard O&A request people do this to boost their FM ratings...for me, more commercials and censorship isn't what I'm paying for).

The FM numbers don't matter for this discussion because they're not subscribers. They're not listening on satellite, which is what these ratings are for. The % of listeners listening to a show on FM they could be listening on XM has to be minute. It's not cutting the numbers down.

With FM I'm sure O&A reach across the country more listeners than Stern on average, but satellite is a different story. I'm a fan of there's, but I don't see how these numbers could be that off.

[conman823]

I totally agree. I don't doubt that Stern is on top in terms of listeners, perhaps even double that of O&A as someone else here suggested. However, Stern and Sirius are synonymous with each other while XM seems to rely on baseball and O&A are relegated to backburner status. Not to mention that Stern literally carried his listeners direct to Sirius, while O&A were on a year and a half-long hiatus before coming to XM. I *do* think the terrestrial deal hurts the satellite ratings, but probably not as much as O&A say they do. If O&A were on in more major east coast cities, I'd say the terrestrial thing is worth continuing. Get on in DC, Philly, and Miami and that's something to build on. I'm not trying to be a hater, but is it worth it to gain notoriety in 4 major cities?

Well they lost some major markets the last several months, which as a long time fan I felt hurt tremendously. I ultimately think there old fans who tuned into there return to CBS were greeted with just awful radio. They cannot be the same show that was #1 in afternoon drive for years anymore. I for one couldn't listen to the CBS show until recently, and still I would rather an XM only show. Then they go to XM and fucking call it in 99% of the time. I'm not a hater I just think I'm a sample of the listenership that O&A might wanna listen too just a little.

Stern on Sirius is the SAME SHOW FORMAT he had on K-Rock. The sat move improved his show in that he isn't forced to stop for breaks and he can say whatever he wants. It might be stale too some but its still a familiar experience, unlike O&A's awful money grabbing return to CBS. Also Stern sounds happier, and even said he can't understand why O&A would WANT to go back to CBS.

[KnoxHarrington]

Orbitcast.com put up a great rundown of why the Arbitron satellite numbers are bullshit (clickie (http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/why-arbitrons-satellite-radio-ratings-are-wrong.html))

It really does make a good point, and doesn't spin in either XM or Sirius' favor. Instead, it makes it clear that they both got boned by these bullshit numbers.

[MobCounty]

The FM numbers don't matter for this discussion because they're not subscribers. They're not listening on satellite, which is what these ratings are for. The % of listeners listening to a show on FM they could be listening on XM has to be minute. It's not cutting the numbers down..


My thought is listenership for practical advertising value.

If Jimmy says he likes his 'Apple' computer at 7:30am, a hell of a lot more than a 100k listeners hear it, and it's not fair the book numbers don't show it. Yeah, I know ad's dont cross over the formats, but plugs do. OnA also get to run two sets of ads (XM,FM) per break. They essentially sell twice the ad time as any other show.

[Doctor Manhattan]

if O & A dropped the O
it would be
a listenable show

As long as there is someone in studio that either A or J is a big fan of. Otherwise the boat has no rudder and will going in circles.

[conman823]

As long as there is someone in studio that either A or J is a big fan of. Otherwise the boat has no rudder and will going in circles.

How come people insist on getting rid of the guy who sets the pace of the show? If left to thier own show A&J would laugh for 5 hours about "The hat removal ceremony", which of course I would enjoy for about 1 day. If you love the SHOW you have to realize that without Opie to move it along it would be unlistenable in 30 seconds. I get mad when Opie says "Lets move along" but I realize without him the show wouldn't be on the air for more then a week. You cannot and will not have a O&A show without the O, sorry but Jimmy is interchangable as is shown just about once a week.