Gas Prices : Where is the Outrage?

[booster11373]

Last time gas was going past 2 dollars a gallon people seemed concerned now that gas is getting close to 3.50 a gallon I dont see the same outrage.

I vaguely remember the fuel crisis of the 70's and those price hikes came along with limited supply

Today the prices seems to go up and up and there still seems to be plenty of supply would gas lines finally get the apathetic Americans to at least yell of something

I bought a new car last year and fuel economy was a major concern for my I bought a Honda Fit which gets 34 miles to the gallon avg.

What the fuck is going on around here?

[JPMNICK]

i knew so many people that told me when gas got to 2 dollars per gallon that they were going to start taking a bus to work, start carpooling, blah blah blah.

no one did shit. no one complains because no one wants to give up the freedom of their car.

[badorties]

it is really amazing that with soaring prices and oil companies posting huge profits, no one gives a shit

where's the government looking out for our greater good ...?

[badmonkey]

Truckers Rally to Protest High Costs for Fuel (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042800787.html)

A caravan of horn-honking truck drivers rolled their rigs through Washington yesterday, protesting rising gasoline costs and demanding that Congress impose caps on prices at the pump.

These guys seemed pretty pissed off.

[led37zep]

I only hope this forces more cities to expand their public transportation systems.

[scottinnj]

It's not that people aren't concerned, or pissed off or outraged. It's just that most people feel helpless and think that nobody in power cares. They are right on the second part. Congress doesn't care, nor does the President. Both sides decided that finger pointing over things like alternative energy and ANWAR was better for votes then actually getting us off of foreign oil in the short term, then getting us off of oil altogether as a long term goal.

[scottinnj]

I only hope this forces more cities to expand their public transportation systems.

Who is going to pay for it? And how do you get people in the suburbs to the city? Most cities aren't like NYC or Philadelphia. The cities in the Midwest and California have so much urban sprawl around them, there is no centralized business district for most of them. You see big skyscrapers in LA, Dallas and Kansas City, but in reality more then half of the urban dwellers go elsewhere to work.

We decided about 50 years ago that we would commute to work in cars. Most public transportation networks were setup for getting around the major cities only, not for coming in from the suburbs.

[Ritalin]

As far as Im concerned, prices aren't high enough, because people still haven't been motivated to change their behavior yet. Dallas was tossed around as an example of an "urban" area, but I was just there, and its just snarled traffic of people driving to work by themselves in their SUVs. I rented a prius through zipcar last week, and I don't understand why everybody doesn't own one. I'm 6'2", and as a photographer I need a lot of cubic space to transport equipment, and it delivered on both counts.

When its too expensive for you people to live your lives the way you're living them now then things will change. Right now the federal government subsidizes 90% of highway improvements, but only 50% of mass transit. When you're ready for change, when youre tired of spending 2 hours in traffic commuting, then you'll start voting in your own economic best interest, stop worrying about faux issues like gay marriage and creationism, and we can move on to the realities of the 21st century.

It isnt that the government doesn't want to do anything for you. The government is polling, and you just don't give a shit yet.

[Thebazile78]

i knew so many people that told me when gas got to 2 dollars per gallon that they were going to start taking a bus to work, start carpooling, blah blah blah.

no one did shit. no one complains because no one wants to give up the freedom of their car.

I'm going to keep an eye on the per-gallon prices.

Gas gets over $3.50 per gallon, I can't drive to work 5 days.
Gas gets up to $4 per gallon, I can't drive to work 4 days.

We already have two people who are fully home-based.
We have one person, who is also an assistant manager, who telecommutes twice per week.

My manager isn't going to care.

(Unless I am laid off tomorrow, in which case it won't matter.)

[scottinnj]

Ritalin's got a point. For some reason, prices just aren't high enough yet. Maybe people can afford it still (don't ask me who!) or are just putting it all on their credit cards trying to put off paying for it.
Eventually though, it will catch up, we will have a recession, and a recession is the only thing I can see in the near future that will bring down prices.

[Melissa the Accountant]

Who is going to pay for it? And how do you get people in the suburbs to the city? Most cities aren't like NYC or Philadelphia. The cities in the Midwest and California have so much urban sprawl around them, there is no centralized business district for most of them. You see big skyscrapers in LA, Dallas and Kansas City, but in reality more then half of the urban dwellers go elsewhere to work.

We decided about 50 years ago that we would commute to work in cars. Most public transportation networks were setup for getting around the major cities only, not for coming in from the suburbs.

Yeah, that is exactly the problem we have in Kansas City, as you mention. We don't even have sidewalks in my neighborhood, let alone reliable public transportation. And the sprawl is only getting bigger all the time. Even if I did work downtown, where they have some mass transit available, the buses don't really service my area very well because it's too suburban. Why don't we have anything better? Because it's so expensive. Kansas City Missouri voters approved a light rail plan last year, but nothing has happened with it because the city can't figure out where it would come up with the money.

I got one of the new VW Rabbits last year and have been pleased with its fuel economy, but I filled up the other day and it cost me $45. I know that's peanuts compared to what a lot of people have to put up with, but to me it seemed like a lot. It's the most I've paid.

I'm sort of considering buying a small motorcycle, since my 15 minute commute by car would turn into a 1:37 commute if I took city buses.

[booster11373]

As far as Im concerned, prices aren't high enough, because people still haven't been motivated to change their behavior yet. Dallas was tossed around as an example of an "urban" area, but I was just there, and its just snarled traffic of people driving to work by themselves in their SUVs. I rented a prius through zipcar last week, and I don't understand why everybody doesn't own one. I'm 6'2", and as a photographer I need a lot of cubic space to transport equipment, and it delivered on both counts.

When its too expensive for you people to live your lives the way you're living them now then things will change. Right now the federal government subsidizes 90% of highway improvements, but only 50% of mass transit. When you're ready for change, when youre tired of spending 2 hours in traffic commuting, then you'll start voting in your own economic best interest, stop worrying about faux issues like gay marriage and creationism, and we can move on to the realities of the 21st century.

It isnt that the government doesn't want to do anything for you. The government is polling, and you just don't give a shit yet.

QFT

[Gvac]

I'm outraged, but when I suggested dumping barrels of oil into the ocean a la The Boston Tea party everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

Drastic times call for drastic measures people!

[scottinnj]

We don't even have sidewalks in my neighborhood, let alone reliable public transportation.

Let me guess. Johnson County, somewhere in Lenexa or Overland Park? I lived there for a while, and the no sidewalk thing really got me angry because at the time I was in the National Guard and had to run to stay in shape for PT tests. I hated running on the shoulder with traffic.

[scottinnj]

I'm outraged, but when I suggested dumping barrels of oil into the ocean a la The Boston Tea party everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

Drastic times call for drastic measures people!

Just get all liquored up and pilot an Exxon tanker into the harbor. Problem solved!

[booster11373]

This stupid place I live in doesnt believe in sidewalks or pedestrian crossings so even if you did decide to walk somewhere you would be taking your life in your hands

[scottinnj]

I got one of the new VW Rabbits last year and have been pleased with its fuel economy

Good Choice
http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/2007_volkswagen_rabbit.jpg

If you are considering buying a bike, don't go any higher then 600 CCs, any higher will defeat the mileage purpose. And try to pay for it in cash, as making payments on a bike will forgo any savings on fuel. Fuel injected hondas and other rice burners are best. And consider you won't be riding it in the winter with Kansas weather, so is garaging it for 4-5 months while paying for registration and insurace for 12 worth it?

[mendyweiss]

http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/Jetpack%201%2010%206-15-4.jpg
Ha !! You Peasants !!!

[sailor]

I'm outraged, but when I suggested dumping barrels of oil into the ocean a la The Boston Tea party everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads.

Drastic times call for drastic measures people!

joey hazelwood was a visionary.

the prices make me laugh at all the douches driving suv's.

[Ferny]

Good Choice
http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/2007_volkswagen_rabbit.jpg

If you are considering buying a bike, don't go any higher then 600 CCs, any higher will defeat the mileage purpose. And try to pay for it in cash, as making payments on a bike will forgo any savings on fuel. Fuel injected hondas and other rice burners are best. And consider you won't be riding it in the winter with Kansas weather, so is garaging it for 4-5 months while paying for registration and insurace for 12 worth it?

Regardless of what we choose to drive we are still going to guzzle the fuel..
What about Exxon's largest yearly profit ever? How can we allow one company to control the economy of our country?

[led37zep]

Who is going to pay for it? And how do you get people in the suburbs to the city? Most cities aren't like NYC or Philadelphia. The cities in the Midwest and California have so much urban sprawl around them, there is no centralized business district for most of them. You see big skyscrapers in LA, Dallas and Kansas City, but in reality more then half of the urban dwellers go elsewhere to work.

We decided about 50 years ago that we would commute to work in cars. Most public transportation networks were setup for getting around the major cities only, not for coming in from the suburbs.



I know all about awful public transportation from my 5 years in Los Angeles. A city that was far too spread out with a public transportation system that didn't actually go where the people lived. I spent an hour and a half getting from Redondo to Hollywood every day (36 miles) had there been a decent line to get me there without taking twice as long...you bet your ass I would have taken it.

Then again you have a place like Portland, Oregon. The lines run all the way from the suburbs through downtown and even drop you off inside of the airport. While there is still traffic getting from Beaverton into Portland the train is also packed. I bet as gas prices rise and traffic gets worse so will demand for more trains and more lines.


Who will pay for it? Guess.

[Ritalin]

Ritalin's got a point. For some reason, prices just aren't high enough yet. Maybe people can afford it still (don't ask me who!) or are just putting it all on their credit cards trying to put off paying for it.
Eventually though, it will catch up, we will have a recession, and a recession is the only thing I can see in the near future that will bring down prices.

No, see, you're still not understanding.

The prices are never ever ever going to come down again, ever. The sooner you people understand that, the sooner we can move on to the new paradigm.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wheres the outrage over this ethanol farce? The price of food is going up, there are food riots and the politicians on both sides are pushing for more of this false hope of ethanol and other biofuels. These agri businesses are being subsidized with our tax dollars and it has done nothing for our energy problem

[JPMNICK]

Wheres the outrage over this ethanol farce? The price of food is going up, there are food riots and the politicians on both sides are pushing for more of this false hope of ethanol and other biofuels. These agri businesses are being subsidized with our tax dollars and it has done nothing for our energy problem

the only viable option is nuclear power that we use to produce a hydrogen based economy

[Dougie Brootal]

No, see, you're still not understanding.

The prices are never ever ever going to come down again, ever. The sooner you people understand that, the sooner we can move on to the new paradigm.

i understand that. completely. so the question is, what can i do about it? what can we do about it? you seem to know all about the problem, what do you know about the solution?


(i realize that may sound a little hostile, but its not intended that way, and i am asking seriously as a concerned american cuz i just dont know what to do.)

[Knowledged_one]

I have a flex fuel car so i can use E85 but what they dont tell you is that it gets 70% of the mileage you would normally get. And here in Ohio they E85 is going up in proportion to regular fuel which is garbage so its always 30 cents less then 87 grade

I actually reported the gas station to the Ohio better business bureau because they are $.80 above the national average

[epo]

i understand that. completely. so the question is, what can i do about it? what can we do about it? you seem to know all about the problem, what do you know about the solution?


(i realize that may sound a little hostile, but its not intended that way, and i am asking seriously as a concerned american cuz i just dont know what to do.)

The first thing we can all do is stop looking for cheap short-term gimmicks and look to real long-term answers.


Do not think a gas tax-holiday is a good idea.
Reduce consumption.
Strengthen the dollar.
Increase domestic fossil fuel production if environmentally feasible.
Develop a "manhattan project" type innovation mandate ASAP for reuseable/alternative energies.

Anything less than that is stupid and short-sighted.

[Zorro]

As far as Im concerned, prices aren't high enough, because people still haven't been motivated to change their behavior yet. Dallas was tossed around as an example of an "urban" area, but I was just there, and its just snarled traffic of people driving to work by themselves in their SUVs. I rented a prius through zipcar last week, and I don't understand why everybody doesn't own one. I'm 6'2", and as a photographer I need a lot of cubic space to transport equipment, and it delivered on both counts.



The enviromental costs and danger of landfilling all those dead batteries is going to be a toxic nightmare.

[epo]

Thomas Friedman has an interesting column on this topic in today's NY Times. Link to story here. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/opinion/30friedman.html?ex=1367294400&en=0588e238277893d6&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink)

[SatCam]

The enviromental costs and danger of landfilling all those dead batteries is going to be a toxic nightmare.

That is not why people dont own hybrids though. They may say that is the reason, but there really is no good reason not to own one at this point. You do realize gasoline cars have batteries too, right?

[Jujubees2]

The enviromental costs and danger of landfilling all those dead batteries is going to be a toxic nightmare.

Those batteries are not sent to the landfill but are recycled. Toyota even has a $200 reward for dealers who turn in old batteries.

[Jujubees2]

Thomas Friedman has an interesting column on this topic in today's NY Times. Link to story here. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/opinion/30friedman.html?ex=1367294400&en=0588e238277893d6&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink)

Very interesting piece.

The Democrats wanted the wind and solar credits to be paid for by taking away tax credits from the oil industry. President Bush said he would veto that. Neither side would back down, and Mr. Bush — showing not one iota of leadership — refused to get all the adults together in a room and work out a compromise. Stalemate. Meanwhile, Germany has a 20-year solar incentive program; Japan 12 years. Ours, at best, run two years.

Just shows how nearsighted this country is in terms of alternative energy sources.

[Melissa the Accountant]

Let me guess. Johnson County, somewhere in Lenexa or Overland Park? I lived there for a while, and the no sidewalk thing really got me angry because at the time I was in the National Guard and had to run to stay in shape for PT tests. I hated running on the shoulder with traffic.
Actually, I live in the Dotte, just in the way south suburban area. I wish constantly that I lived in a more urban, walkable neighborhood with...stuff...around, but then again, I wouldn't have a $400 house payment if I lived in Jackson or Johnson counties. So I make do OK.

If you are considering buying a bike, don't go any higher then 600 CCs, any higher will defeat the mileage purpose. And try to pay for it in cash, as making payments on a bike will forgo any savings on fuel. Fuel injected hondas and other rice burners are best. And consider you won't be riding it in the winter with Kansas weather, so is garaging it for 4-5 months while paying for registration and insurace for 12 worth it?

Yeah, that's something I've been thinking on as well - is it worth it? My friend and her husband both have 300cc scooters that they use to get around town, which works well for them since they live in an area where there are lots of things nearby. They are both quite happy with theirs. But I'm not sure if it's practical for me, even though the fuel economy would be way better. Not to mention, I can't get rid of the car, and whichever vehicle I wouldn't be driving at the time, I'd still be paying insurance on it. I mean, I wish I lived in an area where you could live without a car, since I'd certainly be happy to stop paying for all the insurance and tags and everything. But it is not feasible for me to give up the car entirely.

I wish I lived within a few miles of work. I would happily walk or bicycle to work if it wasn't raining or freezing out.

That is not why people dont own hybrids though. They may say that is the reason, but there really is no good reason not to own one at this point. You do realize gasoline cars have batteries too, right?

The reason nobody I know owns a hybrid is that they're prohibitively expensive compared to just getting a small regular gasoline car. I had just enough money to afford my Rabbit, and I tried to pick something that I thought would be reasonable in terms of passenger space, cargo space, and gas mileage. The very bottom-end Prius starts at around $21,000, and I got a very nice small car with good options, for something like $14,000. I simply couldn't afford more than that.

This isn't meant as a dig at the concept of hybrid cars, but I think I read somewhere an article about somebody who ripped the battery out of the Prius, and its gas mileage went up dramatically because of the drastic reduction in weight. That was interesting.

I'm such a bad employee. I'm posting stuff about petroleum usage on the internet, when I'm supposed to be getting stuff ready to start closing the books for April tomorrow. :(

[Knowledged_one]

Hybrids are generally better in cities than for highway driving, that is why the gas mileage is better for cities because the electric battery is what accelerates the car and when you reach speed it kicks over to the gasoline engine

Hybrid cars do not have high top speeds for highway driving

[meanmrbill]

Who is going to pay for it? And how do you get people in the suburbs to the city? Most cities aren't like NYC or Philadelphia. The cities in the Midwest and California have so much urban sprawl around them, there is no centralized business district for most of them. You see big skyscrapers in LA, Dallas and Kansas City, but in reality more then half of the urban dwellers go elsewhere to work.

We decided about 50 years ago that we would commute to work in cars. Most public transportation networks were setup for getting around the major cities only, not for coming in from the suburbs.

I spent Christmas week 2007 in a suburb of Bath, England. This little town was as rural as any in the U.S. The two or three times that we did go into Bath we took a bus, about a 40 minute ride. So this just tells me that it is entirely possible to bring people into a major city from a suburb. Even here in western PA (I live 50 miles from Pittsburgh) there is a local bus that goes back and forth to and from Pittsburgh several times a day. It seems to me that it is the stigma that is attached to public transportation that keeps any serious discussion about a workable system from happening.

Another problem may be that Americans simply have gone on way too long using fuel with impunity. Too many people driving too big vehicles on too many unnecessary trips. Its not the government's fault, its the fault of culture. Americans need to change their habits and stop thinking that, somehow, wasting natural resources is a "right".

[midwestjeff]

Maybe Reverend Al ate your outrage.

[Zorro]

Hybrids are generally better in cities than for highway driving, that is why the gas mileage is better for cities because the electric battery is what accelerates the car and when you reach speed it kicks over to the gasoline engine

Hybrid cars do not have high top speeds for highway driving

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/hybrid_news.shtml

Per this Feds Hybrid MPG generally better on the highway than in the city

[SatCam]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/hybrid_news.shtml

Per this Feds Hybrid MPG generally better on the highway than in the city

No, he means their MPG in cities is better than non-hybrid cars that might get similar highway mileage. It's because the all the breaking done in city driving doesnt go to waste on hybrids.

[scottinnj]

The first thing we can all do is stop looking for cheap short-term gimmicks and look to real long-term answers.


Do not think a gas tax-holiday is a good idea.
Reduce consumption.
Strengthen the dollar.
Increase domestic fossil fuel production if environmentally feasible.
Develop a "manhattan project" type innovation mandate ASAP for reuseable/alternative energies.

Anything less than that is stupid and short-sighted.

Yes to NO gas tax-holiday. A three month reprieve on a federal tax will only put us deeper in debt, and that only attacks the symptons, not the problem. That is why I am hesistant on releasing oil from the strategic reserve as well.

Yes to reduce consumption. Big Oil can't make outrageous profits IF WE DON'T BUY THEIR SHIT!

Yes to strenghtening the dollar. A lot of why the oil costs so much per barrel is because our money is not competing well in the marketplace against the Euro and Pound. I don't know how to strengthen it, I'd like to hear from others who know more about it.

Yes to increased domestic oil drilling and production. We HAVE to get off of foreign oil ASAP if we are to survive economically and be in a position to totally leave oil as the major influence on our economy. As far as the "enviromentally feasible" portion, I'm not sure we all see eye to eye on that. I'm all for drilling where the oil is. I'm not scared that ANWAR and Alaska will be a big black gooey mess like some people think it will. I didn't hear people complaining about the coal mines in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, I didn't hear people complaining about the copper mines in Utah and Nevada and all the oil fields dotting the plains from Texas to Nebraska. If we let these things happen, what is the difference between those and drilling in Alaska, or exploring Canada? I'm all for enviromental safeguards, but the people who say "absolutely not" had better come up with a feasible plan to get us off foreign oil.

And Yes to a Manhattan Project for alternative, RENEWABLE energy. All forms should be considered, from hydrogen, to biofuels to nuclear power. It would make no sense to cut our ties with OPEC for 10-15 years and drill in our own territories, and when our fields run dry, have to go back with our hat in our hand. Those people who believe that oil is going to be there for another generation at fair prices are just kidding themselves, and are just interfering with progress as much as the no domestic drilling crowd is.

[scottinnj]

I rented a prius through zipcar last week, and I don't understand why everybody doesn't own one.

Price. If you compare buying a Prius here in NJ, it would run you about 23 grand for the touring package that has AC and a CD player, and if you compare that to a Toyota Yaris with AC and a CD with Automatic Transmission, it will only cost you about 13 grand. Over the period of 4 years the difference in price and MPG will automatically route most buyers to the non hybrid Yaris, if fuel savings is the key factor. Why? Because even though the Prius gets 10 MPG better then the Yaris, the extra 10 grand wipes away any savings you get from a 44 MPG average. You may break even, but you won't personally save any money in fuel costs.
That fact comes even greater into play when you compare a 20 thousand dollar Camry LE to a 25 thousand dollar Camry Hybrid. 25 MPG vs 32 MPG average will not pay for the extra cost of the hybrid motor.

The only thing that justifies the extra cost of a hybrid is peace of mind, that you are drastically reducing emissions compared to the car you may have purchased. For some that is good enough. For others that can't afford the payment, they do their best to save fuel costs with other products.

Edit: I'm not even including the cost of the loan. I'm just going with price of car only, no sales tax, destination charge, insurance coverage differences or interest payments above principal.

Edit again (sorry) I just did the math. 48000 miles with a Yaris that averages 33 MPG at 4 dollars a gallon will cost over 4 years 5818 dollars in fuel. The same 48000 miles in a Prius that averages 44 MPG will cost less, at 4363 dollars in fuel costs over 4 years. That is a savings in fuel costs of 1455 dollars. The added cost of the Prius is 10 thousand dollars. Therefore you will be spending 8545 dollars more over the life of the Prius then the life of the Yaris

[scottinnj]

The first thing we can all do is stop looking for cheap short-term gimmicks and look to real long-term answers.


Do not think a gas tax-holiday is a good idea.
Reduce consumption.
Strengthen the dollar.
Increase domestic fossil fuel production if environmentally feasible.
Develop a "manhattan project" type innovation mandate ASAP for reuseable/alternative energies.

Anything less than that is stupid and short-sighted.

Yes to NO gas tax-holiday. A three month reprieve on a federal tax will only put us deeper in debt, and that only attacks the symptons, not the problem. That is why I am hesistant on releasing oil from the strategic reserve as well.

Yes to reduce consumption. Big Oil can't make outrageous profits IF WE DON'T BUY THEIR SHIT!

Yes to strenghtening the dollar. A lot of why the oil costs so much per barrel is because our money is not competing well in the marketplace against the Euro and Pound. I don't know how to strengthen it, I'd like to hear from others who know more about it.

Yes to increased domestic oil drilling and production. We HAVE to get off of foreign oil ASAP if we are to survive economically and be in a position to totally leave oil as the major influence on our economy. As far as the "enviromentally feasible" portion, I'm not sure we all see eye to eye on that. I'm all for drilling where the oil is. I'm not scared that ANWAR and Alaska will be a big black gooey mess like some people think it will. I didn't hear people complaining about the coal mines in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, I didn't hear people complaining about the copper mines in Utah and Nevada and all the oil fields dotting the plains from Texas to Nebraska. If we let these things happen, what is the difference between those and drilling in Alaska, or exploring Canada? I'm all for enviromental safeguards, but the people who say "absolutely not" had better come up with a feasible plan to get us off foreign oil.

And Yes to a Manhattan Project for alternative, RENEWABLE energy. All forms should be considered, from hydrogen, to biofuels to nuclear power. It would make no sense to cut our ties with OPEC for 10-15 years and drill in our own territories, and when our fields run dry, have to go back with our hat in our hand. Those people who believe that oil is going to be there for another generation at fair prices are just kidding themselves, and are just interfering with progress as much as the no domestic drilling crowd is.


To break it down for you guys, what epo and I are saying is VOTE FOR OBAMA if you care about national security and breaking the cycle of constant troop movements to the Middle East.

If you are concerned about national security, VOTE for OBAMA to get the ball rolling to get us of the tit of foreign OPEC oil.

If you support the troops, VOTE for OBAMA to be able to end our military presence in the Middle East that does nothing but put our soldiers in harm's way in order to protect the oil lanes to our country. If we break the need for Saudi oil, we can LEAVE for good and let them tear each other apart without us being in the middle getting the troops shot and our foreign policy used for terrorist recruitment.

VOTE
FOR
OBAMA!

[MobCounty]

We have plenty of gas hidden under our country, we are just working hard to dry up all the dirty peoples gas as fast as possible. Once the world is dry, but still hooked on gas, we will yell.. "Whuh oh, lookie who controls the world!?".

[sailor]

on today's show, ron said we needed presidents like lincoln who said we'd have a railroad across the country, then funded it and let the engineers work it out, and kennedy who said we'd get a man to the moon, then funded it and let the scientists work it out. in 1993 bush set aside $1.2 billion for the hydrogen fuel initiative (to help move us towards a hydrogen economy) and then has left it to the scientists to get it done. it's not like the issue of oil dependency is being totally ignored.

[TheMojoPin]

Forget outrage, we need...

http://img30.photobucket.com/albums/v89/fucttape/blackrageback2.jpg

[high fly]

Hmmmmmmmmm, it looks as if Osama bin Laden will get his wish for $150 a barrel oil after all......

[Ritalin]

Price. If you compare buying a Prius here in NJ, it would run you about 23 grand for the touring package that has AC and a CD player, and if you compare that to a Toyota Yaris with AC and a CD with Automatic Transmission, it will only cost you about 13 grand. Over the period of 4 years the difference in price and MPG will automatically route most buyers to the non hybrid Yaris, if fuel savings is the key factor. Why? Because even though the Prius gets 10 MPG better then the Yaris, the extra 10 grand wipes away any savings you get from a 44 MPG average. You may break even, but you won't personally save any money in fuel costs.
That fact comes even greater into play when you compare a 20 thousand dollar Camry LE to a 25 thousand dollar Camry Hybrid. 25 MPG vs 32 MPG average will not pay for the extra cost of the hybrid motor.

The only thing that justifies the extra cost of a hybrid is peace of mind, that you are drastically reducing emissions compared to the car you may have purchased. For some that is good enough. For others that can't afford the payment, they do their best to save fuel costs with other products.

Edit: I'm not even including the cost of the loan. I'm just going with price of car only, no sales tax, destination charge, insurance coverage differences or interest payments above principal.

Edit again (sorry) I just did the math. 48000 miles with a Yaris that averages 33 MPG at 4 dollars a gallon will cost over 4 years 5818 dollars in fuel. The same 48000 miles in a Prius that averages 44 MPG will cost less, at 4363 dollars in fuel costs over 4 years. That is a savings in fuel costs of 1455 dollars. The added cost of the Prius is 10 thousand dollars. Therefore you will be spending 8545 dollars more over the life of the Prius then the life of the Yaris

Scott, I'll trust you on the math because it's just too early to crunch numbers, but I notice that you're assuming that the cost of gasoline is going to remain static at $4 a gallon. It's not.

Still, I concede the point that hybrid technology isn't the most affordable option for the average consumer right now, which is all the more reason to hope for the kind of leadership that recognizes that somehow, somewhere we need to stop living the way that we do. We need to stop planning exurbs with separate pods of communities where no alternate transportation is possible. We need to demand that fuel efficiency improve dramatically. I'm not some hippy. I'm not talking about the environment or air quality. I'm talking about the real possibility that a lot of people on the lower end of the economic scale won't be able to afford driving the long distances to their low paying jobs.

[Snacks]

on today's show, ron said we needed presidents like lincoln who said we'd have a railroad across the country, then funded it and let the engineers work it out, and kennedy who said we'd get a man to the moon, then funded it and let the scientists work it out. in 1993 bush set aside $1.2 billion for the hydrogen fuel initiative (to help move us towards a hydrogen economy) and then has left it to the scientists to get it done. it's not like the issue of oil dependency is being totally ignored.

if it was 1993 i would bet clinton did it. he took office on january 20 1993. so if bush did this he would have done it in his last 20 days in office? and what president actually works his last 20 days? he had to pack his shit up, pardon his friends.

[Knowledged_one]

No, he means their MPG in cities is better than non-hybrid cars that might get similar highway mileage. It's because the all the breaking done in city driving doesnt go to waste on hybrids.

Bingo

[Dougie Brootal]

We have plenty of gas hidden under our country, we are just working hard to dry up all the dirty peoples gas as fast as possible. Once the world is dry, but still hooked on gas, we will yell.. "Whuh oh, lookie who controls the world!?".

hahaha one can only hope! thanks for making me giggle in between thoughts of suicide and homicide!

[ChrisBrown]

I ran across this article about thinking about a world without oil:

http://www.alternet.org/environment/83548/

I'm afraid that the US isn't going to seriously deal with the inevitable decline in the oil supply until we absolutely have to.

[Jujubees2]

Yes to increased domestic oil drilling and production. We HAVE to get off of foreign oil ASAP if we are to survive economically and be in a position to totally leave oil as the major influence on our economy. As far as the "enviromentally feasible" portion, I'm not sure we all see eye to eye on that. I'm all for drilling where the oil is. I'm not scared that ANWAR and Alaska will be a big black gooey mess like some people think it will. I didn't hear people complaining about the coal mines in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, I didn't hear people complaining about the copper mines in Utah and Nevada and all the oil fields dotting the plains from Texas to Nebraska. If we let these things happen, what is the difference between those and drilling in Alaska, or exploring Canada? I'm all for enviromental safeguards, but the people who say "absolutely not" had better come up with a feasible plan to get us off foreign oil.

Wouldn't it be better if we were just to find a way to become less dependent on oil period? By simply raising the average mpg of the cars made in the U.S., we could save more oil than could ever be found in Alaska. But everyone is afriad that by doing that it would kill the automakers. Well here's a newsflash. The U.S. automakers are already dead (GM Lost $3.3 billion in first quarter (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24383373/)) because they refused to anticipate this problem and kept pushing out SUVs and Hummers. If Americans are so against smaller cars with good gas milage, why is Toyota one of the top selling car companies in the country?

[Rockvillejoe]

As far as Im concerned, prices aren't high enough, because people still haven't been motivated to change their behavior yet........

It isnt that the government doesn't want to do anything for you. The government is polling, and you just don't give a shit yet.

i give a shit, but please don't penalize me by making the oil companies super mega rich. and they get tax rebates to boot. give me a viable alternative, or time to make the necessary changes.

exxon mobil are corporate pigs. they spent 7 million on research for altrernate sources of energy. 7 milliom where they make trillions.

on top of that you have iraq sitting on a ridiculous oil reserve that we get none of, despite our fellow american buddays getting blown up over there for the sake of "freedom". bullshit. at least throw us a oil bone for christs sake or pay for your own security by paying us.

and on top of that you have george bush's home state of texas profiting hugely by the oil revenues. this, plus his looking the other way regarding immigration, (another texas issue where texas has richly profited), and you have without a doubt the worst administration since herbert hoover or jimmy carter.

i am not a bush basher, but this guy is arrogant, his politics are self serving, and he has fucked over the american people with his passive approach to dealing with the countries problems.

January cannot come soon enough. I never thought I would say that. but when you get people like me pissed off, you have really fucked up badly.

[Recyclerz]

Hey, hey now - let's be fair. Exxon Mobil only made $10.9 billion in profit for the first quarter which is less than Wall St. analysts expected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/business/01oil-web.html?hp

Can't we work up a little sympathy for XOM? Wait, I'm feeling a little twinge in my guts.

Wait, could it be?....


Nope, only a bit cirrhosis of the liver. :wink:

[sailor]

if it was 1993 i would bet clinton did it. he took office on january 20 1993. so if bush did this he would have done it in his last 20 days in office? and what president actually works his last 20 days? he had to pack his shit up, pardon his friends.

bad typo, 2003

[booster11373]

I spent almost 40 dollars filling my Honda Fit today. I stopped and bought a bicycle on my way home from classes today. I wont ride it to work or classes but I will risde it if I have to run to the market or if I go to the comicbook store

[Bulldogcakes]

I'M MAD!! DO YOU HEAR ME? I'M MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!









Did the prices go down yet?













No?














Then what the hell difference did that make?

[scottinnj]

Wouldn't it be better if we were just to find a way to become less dependent on oil period?
Yes, but the short term goals while still keeping the "collective" eye on the ball is to get off of foreign oil, and since it will take at least 20 years to get off of oil altogether, the first goal should be energy independence for our national security.

By simply raising the average mpg of the cars made in the U.S., we could save more oil than could ever be found in Alaska. Yes, CAFE standards should be raised, the private market demand for more fuel efficient cars and SUVs has Detriot already putting out good fuel-efficient cars.

It's not necessarily Alaska where I'd like to drill. I was putting out ANWAR as an example, but there are still places offshore and in freindly Candadian territories. We drill in Alaska anyway, so it's not that big a step.

But everyone is afriad that by doing that it would kill the automakers. Well here's a newsflash. The U.S. automakers are already dead (GM Lost $3.3 billion in first quarter (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24383373/)) because they refused to anticipate this problem and kept pushing out SUVs and Hummers. If Americans are so against smaller cars with good gas milage, why is Toyota one of the top selling car companies in the country?

So why kick 'em when they're down? The demand for fuel-efficient cars is having an effect on the Big Three as we speak, they are making more and more models that get over 30 MPG. Like I said, I agree that CAFE standards should be raised, in order to get both Detroit and foreign competition on an equal playing field. Hopefully that standard will be based on sound judgement, and not politics which would harm the auto industry.

Remember they weren't "pushing" the Hummer or SUVs on us. We demanded them.

[scottinnj]

Scott, I'll trust you on the math because it's just too early to crunch numbers, but I notice that you're assuming that the cost of gasoline is going to remain static at $4 a gallon. It's not.

Still, I concede the point that hybrid technology isn't the most affordable option for the average consumer right now, which is all the more reason to hope for the kind of leadership that recognizes that somehow, somewhere we need to stop living the way that we do. We need to stop planning exurbs with separate pods of communities where no alternate transportation is possible. We need to demand that fuel efficiency improve dramatically. I'm not some hippy. I'm not talking about the environment or air quality. I'm talking about the real possibility that a lot of people on the lower end of the economic scale won't be able to afford driving the long distances to their low paying jobs.

Oh yeah I know that gas will go up, I'm just talking about here and now as to why more hybrids aren't being sold as opposed to their non-hybrid counterparts.

There will absolutely come a time when gas will be so expensive you'll gladly pay an additional 10 grand for a car that runs partially on battery power. I'm hoping by that time the market will be so flooded with hybrids, people with budgets of 15 thousand or less will be able to have some mixture of hybrids within reach of what they can afford.

[Bulldogcakes]

Hey, hey now - let's be fair. Exxon Mobil only made $10.9 billion in profit for the first quarter which is less than Wall St. analysts expected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/business/01oil-web.html?hp

Can't we work up a little sympathy for XOM? Wait, I'm feeling a little twinge in my guts.

Wait, could it be?....


Nope, only a bit cirrhosis of the liver. :wink:


Is there something wrong with a company earning a profit?

Something tells me you don't own any of their stock. If you did, you might have a different take on this.:wink:

[Recyclerz]

Is there something wrong with a company earning a profit?

Something tells me you don't own any of their stock. If you did, you might have a different take on this.:wink:

Hey, 3.3% of my SPDRs are XOM - so don't blow up my spot man. If people found out that I sit around in my gold & ermine Lazyboy lighting Cohibas with fistfuls of Euros I'll lose my well-crafted image as a man of the people.

[The Jays]

How bout we stop giving mortgages to people with shit credit, while we build homes which can actually be affordable, while increasing the number of renting and cooperative housing opportunities throughout the nationwide market, while restoring confidence in the consumer and worker by stimulating our businesses to produce jobs that will make each state competitive in the new global marketplace, while we get rid of farm subsidies for ethanol production and offer incentive to farmers who innovate new ways to increase farming production for localities rather than hemispheres? This will all together strengthen our dollar, thereby ending the use of oil as a hedge against our currency, while lowering the cost of food, and getting our cities fresher food while we build and foster state economies which will help benefit our lower and middle class workers and provide them with good housing and a good quality of life.

That's just my own riff on the matter, I'm not very bright when it comes to this stuff.

[Bulldogcakes]

Hey, 3.3% of my SPDRs are XOM - so don't blow up my spot man. If people found out that I sit around in my gold & ermine Lazyboy lighting Cohibas with fistfuls of Euros I'll lose my well-crafted image as a man of the people.

Could you please post this again in english? :blink:

[Jujubees2]

Is there something wrong with a company earning a profit?

Something tells me you don't own any of their stock. If you did, you might have a different take on this.:wink:

No but there is something wrong with a company making RECORD profits while also receiving huge tax breaks from the government.

[sailor]

No but there is something wrong with a company making RECORD profits while also receiving huge tax breaks from the government.

exxon's 2007 taxes (http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion) were a RECORD 30 billion. 6 more and they could have started a record company.

[Epschtein]

the actual amount they paid in taxes has nothing to do with if they received huge tax breaks or not.

[sailor]

the actual amount they paid in taxes has nothing to do with if they received huge tax breaks or not.

i think it points out that any breaks weren't "huge"

[Epschtein]

not by itself it doesnt, for that you need to know the amount of the breaks they received.

[TheMojoPin]

Screw the breaks...I'm sick of companies firing people, refusing to raise wages, cutting benefits, raising prices, etc., etc. when they raise LESS of a profit. "OH NOOOOOOOOOO!!! WE ONLY MADE 30 BILLION OF COMPLETE PROFIT THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED TO 40!!!! WHAT WILL WE DOOOOOOOO?!?!" Yes, I unerstand that such a drop isn't something they're just going to shrug off, but the ways so many major US companies react to that type of situation is just absurd. The mentality is to fuck the consumer and the employees as much as possible before anyone thinks of taking a hit to the profits.

[TooLowBrow]

Screw the breaks...I'm sick of companies firing people, refusing to raise wages, cutting benefits, raising prices, etc., etc. when they raise LESS of a profit. "OH NOOOOOOOOOO!!! WE ONLY MADE 30 BILLION OF COMPLETE PROFIT THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED TO 40!!!! WHAT WILL WE DOOOOOOOO?!?!" Yes, I unerstand that such a drop isn't something they're just going to shrug off, but the ways so many major US companies react to that type of situation is just absurd. The mentality is to fuck the consumer and the employees as much as possible before anyone thinks of taking a hit to the profits.

i agree. its absurd to think that with the weakening dollar and the growing recession that a company would have profits that increase. a successful company should still be making a profit, but not as big a one as last year. there seems something shady about companies that are making more than ever.

[PilotJeff]

I won't get started on companies making a huge profit and then asking employees for pay/benefit cuts while management makes millions... just pick up any newspaper in the last 10 years and read about the airline industry.

But back to oil, does anyone who complains about tax breaks for the oil companies really think that if we get rid of the tax breaks or add taxes to the oil/gas companies, that they won't just jack up the price of said oil/gas to make up for their new taxes? If you think they won't, your dreaming.

[furie]

the outrage should be at the falling value of the dollar, not the gas prices

[Recyclerz]

All the stations 'round here seem to have crossed the $4/gallon threshold for 87 octane and I don't think they're looking back anytime soon.

[Bulldogcakes]

All the stations 'round here seem to have crossed the $4/gallon threshold for 87 octane and I don't think they're looking back anytime soon.

Yeah, I paid 4.05 just last night. And summer's not even here yet.

The dollar has been strengthening lately, we'll see if that helps. But I've always maintained the only way we will ever get off fossil fuels is when they get too expensive and cleaner alternatives start making more sense financially. So let it go to $5 or $6 or whatever a gallon. Maybe then we will live in a better environment and many of us can stop giving a fuck about who's doing what in the area of the globe between Bulgaria and India.

[sailor]

from slate:

But by almost any measure, gasoline is still cheap. In fact, it has probably been far too cheap for far too long. The recent price increases are only beginning to reflect its real value. (http://www.slate.com/id/2191491/)

[Furtherman]

Saved by the Republicans!

Saved by Senate Republicans, big oil companies dodged an attempt Tuesday to slap them with a windfall profits tax and take away billions of dollars in tax breaks in response to the record gasoline prices that have the nation fuming.

GOP senators shoved aside the Democratic proposal, arguing that punishing Big Oil won't do a thing to lower the $4-a-gallon-price of gasoline that is sending economic waves across the country. High prices at the pump are threatening everything from summer vacations to Meals on Wheels deliveries to the elderly.

The Democratic energy package would have imposed a 25 percent tax on any "unreasonable" profits of the five largest U.S. oil companies, which together made $36 billion during the first three months of the year. It also would have given the government more power to address oil market speculation, opened the way for antitrust actions against countries belonging to the OPEC oil cartel, and made energy price gouging a federal crime.

"Americans are furious about what's going on," declared Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D. He said they want Congress to do something about oil company profits and the "orgy of speculation" on oil markets.

But Republican leaders said the Democrats' plan would do harm rather than good - and they kept the legislation from being brought up for debate and amendments.

[jonyrotn]

You say you want a revolution, but....

The revolution will not be broadcast over the internet...

[epo]

You say you want a revolution, but....

The revolution will not be broadcast over the internet...

Word.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uTCQSk2l8bc&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uTCQSk2l8bc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[epo]

"The greatest thing to come out of this for the world economy...would be $20 a barrel for oil. That's bigger than any tax cut in any country." - Rupert Murdoch (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/feb/17/mondaymediasection.iraq), 2003 in touting the benefits of the Iraq War.

If only that nutbar were correct.

[underdog]

"The greatest thing to come out of this for the world economy...would be $20 a barrel for oil. That's bigger than any tax cut in any country." - Rupert Murdoch (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/feb/17/mondaymediasection.iraq), 2003 in touting the benefits of the Iraq War.

If only that nutbar were correct.

I hated and still hate the "No War For Oil" people with the Iraq war. I hated them then because I didn't think they were right and I hate them now because they weren't right.

[epo]

I hated and still hate the "No War For Oil" people with the Iraq war. I hated them then because I didn't think they were right and I hate them now because they weren't right.

To defend those hippies just a bit, it's not like the Bush Administration ever gave them a good reason for the War. In just the first year, he gave them 21 reasons for the war (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=2679).

Yea...it's crazy that those hippies didn't trust that kinda logic.

(If only they were right......sigh....)

[underdog]

To defend those hippies just a bit, it's not like the Bush Administration ever gave them a good reason for the War. In just the first year, he gave them 21 reasons for the war (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=2679).

Yea...it's crazy that those hippies didn't trust that kinda logic.

(If only they were right......sigh....)

I understood people being against the war(s). It was the zero logic people I didn't care for. It just turned out they were right this time.

[scottinnj]

I understood people being against the war(s). It was the zero logic people I didn't care for. It just turned out they were right this time.

The thing about that that pisses me off now, is the media concentrated on the hippies and the ones (Barack) who spoke out against the war with concrete reasons were ignored-the parades of Birkenstocks was sexier I guess.

So we basically got one view on all the networks and cable news, and we bought it.
Next time we rattle the sabers, bro, I'll be in the corner, lighting up a J. I'm done with it. Unless we get invaded or attacked again, no need for war.

[underdog]

The thing about that that pisses me off now, is the media concentrated on the hippies and the ones (Barack) who spoke out against the war with concrete reasons were ignored-the parades of Birkenstocks was sexier I guess.

I couldn't agree more. And in the fact that I'm in Boston, so I'm surrounded by rich college kids trying to tell everyone what is right, with no idea what life is like, and all I saw on the left was idiots.

[watson]

I live close to an RV park ground, plenty of 100+ gallon tanks to siphon from... just have to make sure its not diesel....so no outrage here :)

[epo]

The "gas tax holiday" is not only dead, but the Federal Highway Fund is in such a mess that Congress may be forced to raise the tax by a dime per gallon. Linkey. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,386643,00.html)

The fact that this tax isn't indexed for inflation is mind boggling to me.

[booster11373]

The "gas tax holiday" is not only dead, but the Federal Highway Fund is in such a mess that Congress may be forced to raise the tax by a dime per gallon. Linkey. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,386643,00.html)

The fact that this tax isn't indexed for inflation is mind boggling to me.

Im glad the holiday was a stupid idea to begin with.

Gas is hovering here at 3.99 for low grade and I still see all the big SUV's pulling big ass boats to the beach every weekend

Maybe there is no problem...........

[TooLowBrow]

Im glad the holiday was a stupid idea to begin with.

Gas is hovering here at 3.99 for low grade and I still see all the big SUV's pulling big ass boats to the beach every weekend

Maybe there is no problem...........

4.35 here, i wish it was still under 4

[booster11373]

4.35 here, i wish it was still under 4

I stand corrected my wife filled the tank of our incredible fuel efficent Honda Fit for $4.01 a gallon

[scottinnj]

Im glad the holiday was a stupid idea to begin with.

Gas is hovering here at 3.99 for low grade and I still see all the big SUV's pulling big ass boats to the beach every weekend

Maybe there is no problem...........

Not where I live. There are more boats on the front lawns with "for sale" signs then there are in the water.

Couple the high fuel bills with NJ's brilliant "boater safety" course being mandated for everyone, no matter if you just bought a boat or have been a boater your whole life, the marine recreation of NJ is just getting killed right now.

[scottinnj]

4.35 here, i wish it was still under 4

3.89 here, and up to a dime less with some station owners if you pay in cash.

That way the gas station doesn't have to pay the credit card "convenience" fee of up to 10% of the sale.

[scottinnj]

The "gas tax holiday" is not only dead, but the Federal Highway Fund is in such a mess that Congress may be forced to raise the tax by a dime per gallon. Linkey. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,386643,00.html)

The fact that this tax isn't indexed for inflation is mind boggling to me.

Well, we've had almost 20 years of no federal tax increases. I guess we were due.

[sailor]

Not where I live. There are more boats on the front lawns with "for sale" signs then there are in the water.

Couple the high fuel bills with NJ's brilliant "boater safety" course being mandated for everyone, no matter if you just bought a boat or have been a boater your whole life, the marine recreation of NJ is just getting killed right now.

what's the boater safety thing? is it like a driver's license?

[TooLowBrow]

Originally Posted by scottinnj
Not where I live. There are more boats on the front lawns with "for sale" signs then there are in the water.
one boater once told me, there are two great days for a boat owner, the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
even in a good economy a boat sponges money

[scottinnj]

what's the boater safety thing? is it like a driver's license?

Sort of, more like a hunter's safety course you need to take before you can buy permits to hunt game.

It began with people 35 years of age and under, then expanded this year to everyone. You can't register your boat or trailer without it.

[who6489]

I stand corrected my wife filled the tank of our incredible fuel efficent Honda Fit for $4.01 a gallon

Interesting. I live near Wake Forest, and the price just dropped! At Sheets it's $3.88. I was 3.98 a few days ago, and it'll probably be over $4 again tomorrow.
:annoyed:

[sailor]

Sort of, more like a hunter's safety course you need to take before you can buy permits to hunt game.

It began with people 35 years of age and under, then expanded this year to everyone. You can't register your boat or trailer without it.

even if someone's been boating for 40 years there's no telling if they have a clue what they're doing. i'm in favor of the permits.

[Knowledged_one]

So has gas been dropping wehre you live?

Here in ohio the average price has dropped 13.3 cents in the last week

I have seen gas here in ohio for $3.77 - E85 is $3.27

[~Katja~]

I noticed a drop as well. from 3.98 to 3.88 where I normally take gas.

but I am sure next week it will go up again.

What annoys me is that when they say the prices increase nationwide, how is it that all of the sudden the big gap between NJ and PA gets so little and then when they drop it gets bigger again. Seems PA is not increasing nor decreasing prices while NJ is going wild.

[foodcourtdruide]

Gas hasn't really dropped on Staten Island, but it's stopped it's insane increase. The highest I've seen is $4.39 at Mobil stations and $4.32 at some other places.

[scottinnj]

even if someone's been boating for 40 years there's no telling if they have a clue what they're doing. i'm in favor of the permits.

Sure, permits and registration. You go into the MVS (DMV in your state) and take a test, and there you go.


Here, you have to take a class. And it ain't on weekends.

[scottinnj]

one boater once told me, there are two great days for a boat owner, the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
even in a good economy a boat sponges money

But as a teenager working the dock and filling the gas tanks, it sure was nice tip money.

[envirogator]

Here are some numbers to think about from my company:

Jun 06-Jun 07- 227 vehicles- total fuel costs $2.047mm
Jun 07-Jun 08 219 vehicles- total fuel costs $3.212 mm.

absolutely staggering and only getting worse...

[ladyface]

That's quite striking. I'd imagine the price hike in Aviation Fuel would be markedly higher?

[epo]

That's quite striking. I'd imagine the price hike in Aviation Fuel would be markedly higher?

Hence the rumors of a few of the major airlines going bankrupt. It's quite a mess we've got on our hands...............

[sailor]

Sure, permits and registration. You go into the MVS (DMV in your state) and take a test, and there you go.


Here, you have to take a class. And it ain't on weekends.

again, you have similar requirements to drive a car. screw grandfathering.

[scottinnj]

again, you have similar requirements to drive a car. screw grandfathering.

I don't own a boat, so it doesn't affect me.

But first they came for the boatowners. And I did nothing.

Then they came for the golf cart drivers. Again I did nothing.

Then they came for the rigid airship operators. I did nothing once again.















Because I don't give a shit. :clap:

[thepaulo]

It's the beginning of the end.

[epo]

It's the beginning of the end.

Still freaked out about Chicago?

[foodcourtdruide]

Here are some numbers to think about from my company:

Jun 06-Jun 07- 227 vehicles- total fuel costs $2.047mm
Jun 07-Jun 08 219 vehicles- total fuel costs $3.212 mm.

absolutely staggering and only getting worse...

Just curious, what does mm stand for?

[envirogator]

Just curious, what does mm stand for?

million

[Knowledged_one]

gas is down to $3.57 where i live and i now pay $3.07 for E85

[Captain Awesome]

gas is down to $3.57 where i live and i now pay $3.07 for E85

Could you mail some of that gas to Long Island? I could re-sell it and make a fortune.

[Kevin]

I blame Justjon.. They keep calling and PMing him suggestions on how to reduce gas prices, but he just ignores them.

[Knowledged_one]

Now down to $3.53 per gallon

$3.03 for E85

Love the midwest

[FMJeff]

Three days of Obama, Pelosi, and Mccain discussing gas prices and CONSIDERING off-shore drilling and my local pump prices fall more than a dime.

KEEP TALKING ASSHOLES.

Who thought it would be this easy to lower gas prices? YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

[K.C.]

The market thrives on speculation.

Oil prices are close to the breaking point, though. There was a story in USA Today yesterday about how Air Travel over just the last year has jumped anywhere from 150%-250% in price, on fuel costs alone.

The Saudis are even starting to get a little nervous, floating ideas about bringing the price down a little, because they don't want people to start conserving.

Of course, the fact that it takes the fucking Saudis to say, "hey, we might want to do something about this" is a joke.


But back to the point, this will happen all election cycle. The more Obama and McCain talk, the more there'll be a flux.

[foodcourtdruide]

I actually heard a FOXNews host (not sure who, a female) say that the reason gas prices are down is because McCain is pushing for off-shore drilling. I was like.. damn someone really drank the kool aid.

[sailor]

stories i've read say the prices are dropping because of lowered demand...due to higher prices...from increased demand...

all very circular.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

what a surprise gas prices will fall as we get close to the election

we suffer, while the fat cats in Washington light their cigars with $100 Bills

[Marc with a c]

stories i've read say the prices are dropping because of lowered demand...due to higher prices...from increased demand...

all very circular.

just like you

[sailor]

what a surprise gas prices will fall as we get close to the election

we suffer, while the fat cats in Washington light their cigars with $100 Bills

using that logic, half of the fat cats would want the prices to raise before the election. thay're just showing they're not good at getting the job done.

[Recyclerz]

http://www.mikeonads.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/supply_demand_11.JPG


All you need to know.

[ozzie]

My theory all along was that the increased demand from China was hinged around the influx of investors and development in preparation for the olympics, both in increased use and ensuring adequate supplies while the rest of the world was visiting.

Now that they're here, they are limiting driving on the streets to every other day in an effort to reduce smog in the city, and after they blow the foreign cash being dropped there this month, their demand will return to where it was at the beginning of the year.

Meanwhile, our own demand has reduced because of the f'ing price per gallon.

But, YES... Keep fucking talking and doing something about our own supply.

[Doctor Z]

And once again, this is all the fault of, you guessed it...


The Jews.

[A.J.]

And once again, this is all the fault of, you guessed it...


The Jews.

Why? There's no oil in Israel.

[Knowledged_one]

Three days of Obama, Pelosi, and Mccain discussing gas prices and CONSIDERING off-shore drilling and my local pump prices fall more than a dime.

KEEP TALKING ASSHOLES.

Who thought it would be this easy to lower gas prices? YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

actually prices started dropping when Bush said he was in favor of opening the offshore to drilling

[ahhdurr]

http://www.mikeonads.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/supply_demand_11.JPG


All you need to know.


Hey Guns and Butter - what class was that?

[foodcourtdruide]

actually prices started dropping when Bush said he was in favor of opening the offshore to drilling

You're confusing correlation with causation. I could just as easily say prices started dropping when the Mets began their series in Houston.

Also, Bush has been calling for off-shore drilling for months. Prices have been dropping only for the last week or so.

[Knowledged_one]

You're confusing correlation with causation. I could just as easily say prices started dropping when the Mets began their series in Houston.

Also, Bush has been calling for off-shore drilling for months. Prices have been dropping only for the last week or so.

When Bush lifted the presidential ban on offshore drilling the average price of oil/barrell dropped $9 that is a direct correlation and the average price of gas in this country has dropped for 19 straight days

[Freitag]

Why? There's no oil in Israel.

Just imagine if there was. Holy Mother of God....

[badmonkey]

actually prices started dropping when Bush said he was in favor of opening the offshore to drilling

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/21578/thumbs/s-PELOSIOBAMA-large.jpg

But that won't put a drop of oil in our tanks for 10 years and won't do anything to drop gas prices today! no no no! lalalalalalalallalalalalalalalala not listening! no vote no vote!!!

[HBox]

It's just decreased demand. That's not speculation on my part, look at the huge shortfall of funds in the highway fund. it's funded by the federal gas tax and revenues are way down. People are buying less gas and the price goes down. It's as simple as economics get.

It's astounding how otherwise smart and educated people start spouting fantasies and conspiracy theories when it comes to gas prices.

[foodcourtdruide]

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/21578/thumbs/s-PELOSIOBAMA-large.jpg

But that won't put a drop of oil in our tanks for 10 years and won't do anything to drop gas prices today! no no no! lalalalalalalallalalalalalalalala not listening! no vote no vote!!!

So you are 100% convinced that if oil companies drill for oil offshore they will not turn around and simply put that oil on the global market, instead of selling it directly and exclusively to the United States? SUPPLY in the global market doesn't seem to be the problem.

[jonyrotn]

My theory all along was that the increased demand from China was hinged around the influx of investors and development in preparation for the olympics, both in increased use and ensuring adequate supplies while the rest of the world was visiting.
Now that they're here, they are limiting driving on the streets to every other day in an effort to reduce smog in the city, and after they blow the foreign cash being dropped there this month, their demand will return to where it was at the beginning of the year.
Meanwhile, our own demand has reduced because of the f'ing price per gallon.
But, YES... Keep fucking talking and doing something about our own supply.
Welp..This post totally destroys the widely held theory that you're Jose Canseco's brother Ozzie..

Well said and finely articulated..

And once again, this is all the fault of, you guessed it...
The Jews.
All the wishin' in the world aint gonna make this post true..
But nice shot Doctor naZi..

[Knowledged_one]

It's just decreased demand. That's not speculation on my part, look at the huge shortfall of funds in the highway fund. it's funded by the federal gas tax and revenues are way down. People are buying less gas and the price goes down. It's as simple as economics get.

It's astounding how otherwise smart and educated people start spouting fantasies and conspiracy theories when it comes to gas prices.

Its not just decreased demand, how do you explain the $9 drop then when Bush lifted the presidential ban

Its been widely reported that Supply and Demand does not govern the price of oil/gasoline

[IMSlacker]

Its been widely reported that Supply and Demand does not govern the price of oil/gasoline

Where?

[foodcourtdruide]

Its not just decreased demand, how do you explain the $9 drop then when Bush lifted the presidential ban

Its been widely reported that Supply and Demand does not govern the price of oil/gasoline

From July 16th:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/16/markets/oil/index.htm?cnn=yes

"Crude futures close down over $4 a barrel after a surprise growth in crude and gasoline stockpiles hints at the impact of high prices on usage."

[HBox]

Where?

Seriously, not only did that make my brain hurt, it proved exactly what i was saying.

Why all the talk about huge explosions of demand in oil from India and China? They aren't talking about that as a novelty, they are talking about that because the increased demand is driving up prices.

[Knowledged_one]

Where?

Honestly and you dont have to believe me but i read the articles on (your state)gasprices.com

They have a section on the L/H Side and had articles about it

But here is some research that i found

http://www.theseminal.com/2008/05/24/gas-prices-and-the-law-of-supply-and-demand/

[Knowledged_one]

Seriously, not only did that make my brain hurt, it proved exactly what i was saying.

Why all the talk about huge explosions of demand in oil from India and China? They aren't talking about that as a novelty, they are talking about that because the increased demand is driving up prices.

Yet you still have not explained why oil dropped $9 a barrel as i said above ignoring a question isnt the same as answering it

[HBox]

Yet you still have not explained why oil dropped $9 a barrel as i said above ignoring a question isnt the same as answering it

I said why. Supply and Demand.

<script type="text/javascript">
src="http://www.oil-price.net/TABLE2/gen.php?lang=en">
</script>Click here. (http://oil-price.net/index.php?lang=en)
<noscript> To get the oil price, please enable Javascript. (http://www.oil-price.net/dashboard.php?lang=en)
</noscript>

Select 1M. The prices started coming down before July 14, when Bush made his announcement.

[IMSlacker]

Honestly and you dont have to believe me but i read the articles on (your state)gasprices.com

They have a section on the L/H Side and had articles about it

But here is some research that i found

http://www.theseminal.com/2008/05/24/gas-prices-and-the-law-of-supply-and-demand/

That blog entry talks about how demand for gasoline is inelastic, which is true. This is not the same thing as saying that supply and demand don't drive gasoline prices.

[Knowledged_one]

I said why. Supply and Demand.

<script type="text/javascript">
src="http://www.oil-price.net/TABLE2/gen.php?lang=en">
</script>Click here. (http://oil-price.net/index.php?lang=en)
<noscript> To get the oil price, please enable Javascript. (http://www.oil-price.net/dashboard.php?lang=en)
</noscript>

Select 1M. The prices started coming down before July 14, when Bush made his announcement.

so it was coincidence that the next day after that announcement it dropped $9 are you serious you cant be that blinded by your political leanings and on the 14th of July the price of oil went up.

2nd why its not goverend by supply and demand is becuase of the value of the US dollar, world inflation, the situation in Iran, the pipelines in Nigeria all of those have nothing to do with Supply and demand

[Recyclerz]

Hey Guns and Butter - what class was that?

Poli Sci 101 - Lecture: "How to look like a hero while you're in office while fucking it up for your successor: the 'Follow Smoke' strategy".

Separately:
When I was a youngin, it was generally accepted that the Republicans were the party who understood business. Things have sure changed.

[foodcourtdruide]

so it was coincidence that the next day after that announcement it dropped $9 are you serious you cant be that blinded by your political leanings and on the 14th of July the price of oil went up.

2nd why its not goverend by supply and demand is becuase of the value of the US dollar, world inflation, the situation in Iran, the pipelines in Nigeria all of those have nothing to do with Supply and demand

It's not just him saying it's a coincidence, almost everyone BUT McCain is saying it's a coincidence. McCain is using this as a talking-point in his push for off-shore drilling.

On your second point, I think it's about demand, not necessarily supply, because the supply is and has always been there. Also, I agree with what you say about the U.S. dollar.

[angrymissy]

actually prices started dropping when Bush said he was in favor of opening the offshore to drilling

Actually, in the AP article I read a few days ago, it was stated prices went down because consumption went drastically down.

[Recyclerz]

Its not just decreased demand, how do you explain the $9 drop then when Bush lifted the presidential ban

Its been widely reported that Supply and Demand does not govern the price of oil/gasoline

I think you are arguing against yourself here. If you want to give W the credit for the recent downward fluctuation in oil prices the line would be: Due to the President's bold action in opening up more places to drill for oil, thereby potentially increasing the world supply, speculators in the commodity were scared into selling oil futures rather than further bidding the price up on fears of scarcity.

I don't believe that is true but it would make sense.

[ozzie]

It's not just him saying it's a coincidence, almost everyone BUT McCain is saying it's a coincidence. McCain is using this as a talking-point in his push for off-shore drilling.

On your second point, I think it's about demand, not necessarily supply, because the supply is and has always been there. Also, I agree with what you say about the U.S. dollar.

Gas prices took a sharp increase after Katrina hit in 2005, and we never went back to where they were before.

As far as I recall, the storm didn't affect the price of oil, just the price of gasoline in the U.S.

Reason given: Supply of Gas down, U.S. demand the same

Where was the outrage for this bullshit excuse over a year later?

Forget all the bullshit. Companies charge as much as they think consumers can/will pay.

The price went up to over $3 after Katrina, and their sales were not affected.

Earlier this year, I remember reading an economist speculating that the United States population could withstand paying $4 per Gallon without drastically affecting demand.

Well, guess what? The price went to $4 (or over) per gallon, we bitched and moaned, but most of us kept buying, and it stayed there as long as they thought we would continue to buy it.

Meanwhile, the Oil companies announce record profits, and we go into debt.

Oil is a raw material, but not the entire cost of gasoline. There is a cost in refining.

The oil companies love to use the excuse now that if the price of oil increases by 50%, then the price of gas should increase 50%, which is total horseshit.

The cost of refining would also have to increase by the same margin for this to be accurate. Otherwise, it's fucking price gouging, which, after a major storm, is illegal for everyone else in the affected areas, except the motherfucking oil companies.

There are people down here who are constantly arrested after storms hit for charging $5 for a bag of ice, or a bottle of water.

[Jujubees2]

Found your outrage.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z168/MooresDarkHalo/FuckGasPricesMan.jpg

[badmonkey]

Found your outrage.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z168/MooresDarkHalo/FuckGasPricesMan.jpg

So THAT's what FMJeff looks like.

[K.C.]

Actually, in the AP article I read a few days ago, it was stated prices went down because consumption went drastically down.

Which is why the Saudis are even bitching about prices (and they sell it to us!!!), because they don't want to see consumption go down.

It's also why we need to get the ball running on Wind and Solar power even more so in this country. Not only does it have potential to be a huge growth industry, but it will also compete with oil, forcing the price of the barrel down some what.

It's a win-win.

It won't solve the car/gasoline problem, but if Wind and Solar can start replacing chunks of home electricity and heating, it's that much less oil sold, which means that much further they have to push the price back, to meet profit expectations, or attempt to make up the difference by encouraging people to drive more and consume gasoline.

[badmonkey]

Until we find a way to make plastics and hundreds of other things from something other than oil, we're always going to need it. Might as well drill here and then when we aren't burning it in our cars, we'll still have it to make cool plastic things.

[Jujubees2]

Until we find a way to make plastics and hundreds of other things from something other than oil, we're always going to need it. Might as well drill here and then when we aren't burning it in our cars, we'll still have it to make cool plastic things.

But that's assuming that all the oil pumped in the U.S. will stay in the U.S. which isn't true. These oil companies are multi-national corporations and they will send the oil wherever they please.

[TooLowBrow]

But that's assuming that all the oil pumped in the U.S. will stay in the U.S. which isn't true. These oil companies are multi-national corporations and they will send the oil wherever they please.

isnt it more costly to ship it, rather than selling it locally?

[badmonkey]

But that's assuming that all the oil pumped in the U.S. will stay in the U.S. which isn't true. These oil companies are multi-national corporations and they will send the oil wherever they please.

In 50 years when we're all cruisin around in our pimped out hydrocars and causing global warming with our "harmless" water vapor emissions and the demand on oil is so much smaller because we aren't using oil for fuel, will it really matter? Besides, even if it DOES go to the global market it will increase the supply and even if the other countries reduce production, more money is coming into this country from the sale of our oil rather than going out of the country to purchase their oil. There isn't a single state in this country that gets a dime of oil royalties from oil drilled in the middle east.

[HBox]

so it was coincidence that the next day after that announcement it dropped $9 are you serious you cant be that blinded by your political leanings and on the 14th of July the price of oil went up.

2nd why its not goverend by supply and demand is becuase of the value of the US dollar, world inflation, the situation in Iran, the pipelines in Nigeria all of those have nothing to do with Supply and demand

:wallbash:

Firstly, the price of oil started its decline before the President said anything. So, no, it wasn't a coincidence. The president said what he said while oil prices were already starting to drop.

Secondly, yes, those are all factors. And the last two things you mention have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH SUPPLY AND DEMAND!

:wallbash:

[HBox]

In 50 years when we're all cruisin around in our pimped out hydrocars and causing global warming with our "harmless" water vapor emissions and the demand on oil is so much smaller because we aren't using oil for fuel, will it really matter? Besides, even if it DOES go to the global market it will increase the supply and even if the other countries reduce production, more money is coming into this country from the sale of our oil rather than going out of the country to purchase their oil. There isn't a single state in this country that gets a dime of oil royalties from oil drilled in the middle east.

If we are all driving around in pimped out hydro cars in 50 years gas would be so cheap it would be to expensive even operate these oil wells in these areas we are talking about.

One thing to keep in mind is that 80% of America's untapped oil reserves are already open to be drilled and have been for a long while and no company has bothered. There's plenty of oil already available to be drilled.

[badmonkey]

If we are all driving around in pimped out hydro cars in 50 years gas would be so cheap it would be to expensive even operate these oil wells in these areas we are talking about.

Not GAS... OIL and OIL derived products like plastics, lubricants. If we're driving around in hydro cars, wtf would we need gas for? We will always need oil as long as we make things out of plastic unless somebody figures out another way to make plastic or how to make something better than plastic out of something else.

One thing to keep in mind is that 80% of America's untapped oil reserves are already open to be drilled and have been for a long while and no company has bothered. There's plenty of oil already available to be drilled.

Are they?

[HBox]

Not GAS... OIL and OIL derived products like plastics, lubricants. If we're driving around in hydro cars, wtf would we need gas for? We will always need oil as long as we make things out of plastic unless somebody figures out another way to make plastic or how to make something better than plastic out of something else.



Are they?

On the first part I meant oil.

On the second....

Click here. (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/20/new_offshore_drilling_not_a_quick_fix_analysts_say/)

About 86 billion barrels of additional oil may lie offshore, according to the US government's Energy Information Administration. Of that amount, about 18 billion barrels are subject to the moratorium. Much of the rest lies in areas that are too expensive to exploit or that oil companies have not yet tapped for technical reasons, fueling the industry's desire for fresh territory.

[booster11373]

Ummmm.......

How is drilling for more oil supposed to solve the problem of our dependence on oil?

[K.C.]

Ummmm.......

How is drilling for more oil supposed to solve the problem of our dependence on oil?

Ding! Ding! Ding! Send him into the Big Ass Prize Closet, Fezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


That's my point. With Wind and Solar for home fuel, you at least get the ball rolling. Auto fuel and industrial manufacturing may be a bit trickier to solve, but do something with the home fuel right now.

[booster11373]

Ding! Ding! Ding! Send him into the Big Ass Prize Closet, Fezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


That's my point. With Wind and Solar for home fuel, you at least get the ball rolling. Auto fuel and industrial manufacturing may be a bit trickier to solve, but do something with the home fuel right now.


Call me Captain Obvious but that's my point

Plus we rely on petroleum for more than fuel, plastics, fertilizers and medicines are all derived from petroleum not using the bulk of petroleum for fuel can only be a good thing.

[booster11373]

Plus 1 other point the price of Oil is not set by the laws of Supply and Demand

[IMSlacker]

Plus 1 other point the price of Oil is not set by the laws of Supply and Demand

It isn't? I thought we already discussed this.

[sailor]

Ding! Ding! Ding! Send him into the Big Ass Prize Closet, Fezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


That's my point. With Wind and Solar for home fuel, you at least get the ball rolling. Auto fuel and industrial manufacturing may be a bit trickier to solve, but do something with the home fuel right now.

i don't think anyone's saying to drill to the exclusion of alternative means. the reverse is suggested by some.

[HBox]

It isn't? I thought we already discussed this.

I think he might be talking about OPEC price manipulation but that power is waning. Or maybe the inelasticity of demand. Obviously there are other factors but the major one right now is tightening supply and still increasing demand.

[NewYorkDragons80]

If you want to drive the price down, use more gas so we can justify building more refineries which would REALLY drop the price of oil

[TheMojoPin]

More nuclear power, please.

[scottinnj]

More nuclear power, please.

QFT

[NewYorkDragons80]

Which is why the Saudis are even bitching about prices (and they sell it to us!!!), because they don't want to see consumption go down.
People really hate hearing this, but the Saudis are the best friends we've got in the oil biz... always have been, always will be. They could turn a profit if they sold their oil at $5 a barrel, and they just want to sell yesterday because the most important thing to them is bringing in capital yesterday. Time after time, the Saudis are the ones pushing the price of oil down because they have the most oil reserves that will last the longest time.

[A.J.]

Plus we rely on petroleum for more than fuel, plastics, fertilizers and medicines are all derived from petroleum not using the bulk of petroleum for fuel can only be a good thing.

Please don't take away my Vaseline.

[Knowledged_one]

:wallbash:

Firstly, the price of oil started its decline before the President said anything. So, no, it wasn't a coincidence. The president said what he said while oil prices were already starting to drop.

Secondly, yes, those are all factors. And the last two things you mention have EVERYTHING TO DO WITH SUPPLY AND DEMAND!

:wallbash:

are you banging your head because you are wrong, the price of oil was going up it was not going down and as i said the price of oil actually went up on the day you said it started going down on July 14th, seriously do you even look this stuff up before you make it up?

And the threat of an attack by Isreal on Iran has nothing to do with supply and demand seriously how clueless are you

[Jujubees2]

If you want to drive the price down, use more gas so we can justify building more refineries which would REALLY drop the price of oil

Oil companies aren't interested in building more refineries. I remember reading that the oil companies were offered free land in California (former Army or Navy bases) by the federal government in order to build refineries and the oil companies turned the government down.

[Knowledged_one]

I paid $3.00 for E85 yesterday

Gas is down to $3.50 for regular 87 grade here in Troy Ohio

[foodcourtdruide]

I saw gas at $3.86 at a Getty station here in Staten Island.

[JPMNICK]

3.53 in NJ where I am

[Thebazile78]

$3.49 by me.

Price has actually gone down about $0.10 in the last few weeks.

[scottinnj]

$3.27 in Cumberland County, and on Rte 130 in Gloucester City, if you pay in cash.

[HBox]

$0.00 from my neighbor's gas tank.

[TooLowBrow]

wow, look at all the sheep, ready to shout out how they're paying less than they have recently... ignoring how, a year ago, they payed much less.

[scottinnj]

wow, look at all the sheep, ready to shout out how they're paying less than they have recently... ignoring how, a year ago, they payed much less.

First of all, STFU-we're trying to tell each other where to go to save some money.

Secondly, why go back a year? The last time oil was at 115-120 dollars a barrel was the end of March of this year, and gas in South Jersey was $2.98 a gallon. So no shit we're still getting fucked.


"We are poor little sheep who have lost our way.....BAAAH BAAAH BAAAAAH!"

[TooLowBrow]

First of all, STFU-we're trying to tell each other where to go to save some money.

Secondly, why go back a year? The last time oil was at 115-120 dollars a barrel was the end of March of this year, and gas in South Jersey was $2.98 a gallon. So no shit we're still getting fucked.


"We are poor little sheep who have lost our way.....BAAAH BAAAH BAAAAAH!"

the thread title is 'where is the outrage'... so where is it?

[HBox]

the thread title is 'where is the outrage'... so where is it?

LOUD NOISES!

[TooLowBrow]

LOUD NOISES!

http://www.bitetv.ca/blog/archives/happy%20pee%20wee.jpg
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[booster11373]

the thread title is 'where is the outrage'... so where is it?

You have a point I always thought prices only have to drop 10-25 cents and people would be so relieved never mind that the same cycle can and will repeat itself and we will spin our wheels talking about more drilling

[Knowledged_one]

wow, look at all the sheep, ready to shout out how they're paying less than they have recently... ignoring how, a year ago, they payed much less.

no one is ignoring that in the least, and no one is happy that the gas is more expensive then a year ago. But i am definetly much happier then when gas was over $4 here in Ohio and now i am paying a dollar less then that or $.50 for regular

[foodcourtdruide]

wow, look at all the sheep, ready to shout out how they're paying less than they have recently... ignoring how, a year ago, they payed much less.

Wow, you must have had a conversation with yourself to come to this conclusion. All we were posting was how much gas cost. This doesn't mean we're not aware that the price of gas has risen since a year or so ago.

[scottinnj]

the thread title is 'where is the outrage'... so where is it?

Sorry About the Rudeness TooLowBrow for starters....


Here Ya Go-

I hope everyone involved in the raping of Americans trying to get to work catch cancer and burn in hell. Enjoy that blood money while you can oil speculators, OPEC members and every member of the board of directors of the companies that make up Big Oil-you can't take it with you and if you could, Bank of Hell doesn't recognize mortal money.

Quote:
"Fuck 'em in their Fucking Fuckholes"-Midkiff

[Knowledged_one]

Down to $3.30 for 87 octane

$2.80 for E85

Its down about $.70 since Ike hit Texas and 20 cents lower then the lowest i saw it here in Ohio

[RAAMONE]

3.17 here

[Knowledged_one]

Down to $3.19

I paid $2.69 for E85 today

[RAAMONE]

i'm actually not complaining anymore...if it keeps this up it'll be under 3 dollars soon

edit: and what is E85...i've never heard of that

[JPMNICK]

I saw 2.99 gas in Jersey City last week

[JPMNICK]

i'm actually not complaining anymore...if it keeps this up it'll be under 3 dollars soon

edit: and what is E85...i've never heard of that

it is a special Ethanol mix that is mostly based on corn gasoline. it is 85% ethanol 15% traditional gas

[Hottub]

$3.09 this morning.

[Knowledged_one]

i'm actually not complaining anymore...if it keeps this up it'll be under 3 dollars soon

edit: and what is E85...i've never heard of that

Its mainly found in the midwest area. Its usable by the chevy flex fuel cars which i have (2007 Impala)

Its cheaper buy you get about 70-80% of mpgs then what you get from regular gas

[NewYorkDragons80]

it is a special Ethanol mix that is mostly based on corn gasoline. it is 85% ethanol 15% traditional gas

And imagine how low that E85 would be if people like Obama weren't lifting tail for the corn industry and we made our ethanol with algae or sugar like thinking people.

[Knowledged_one]

And imagine how low that E85 would be if people like Obama weren't lifting tail for the corn industry and we made our ethanol with algae or sugar like thinking people.

Can we please not turn this thing into a Republican vs. Democrat debate?

The bottom line is that Ethanol is just the first step that Chevy is doing to move towards cars that dont run on gasoline, and it needs time to spread through the country. I think its big in the midewest because its in the middle of corn country and its cheap to ship it to the local midwest areas as oppossed to all over the country

[NewYorkDragons80]

Can we please not turn this thing into a Republican vs. Democrat debate?

The bottom line is that Ethanol is just the first step that Chevy is doing to move towards cars that dont run on gasoline, and it needs time to spread through the country. I think its big in the midewest because its in the middle of corn country and its cheap to ship it to the local midwest areas as oppossed to all over the country

This isn't a right v. left issue, it's a right v. wrong issue. The Democrats want to give the corn industry free reign because they falsely believe corn ethanol is renewable and environmentally friendly, while Republicans do the same because it leads to cheap food additives and feed for cows. Neither has regard for the long term environmental or health risks involved. The only sustainable, clean source of ethanol is algae. Period. End of discussion.

[Dougie Brootal]

The only sustainable, clean source of ethanol is algae. Period. End of discussion.

how do you know this?


not trying to be a dick, just intrested in learning about it.

[JPMNICK]

how do you know this?


not trying to be a dick, just intrested in learning about it.

due to how much energy and resources it takes to grow corn or sugar (i.e. water, gas and machines to cut it down and ship it, huge amounts of energy to distill it) using algea, which basically takes solar energy and converts it into ethanol is really the only way this fuel can be considered "green"

you can find a lot of articles about this online

[NewYorkDragons80]

due to how much energy and resources it takes to grow corn or sugar (i.e. water, gas and machines to cut it down and ship it, huge amounts of energy to distill it) using algea, which basically takes solar energy and converts it into ethanol is really the only way this fuel can be considered "green"

you can find a lot of articles about this online

In addition, sugar is chemically structured to be a more efficient source of ethanol. However, sugar harvesting beats the crap out of the terrain it's growing on, so it doesn't quite work as a long-term energy solution for the United States, and as Brazil's economy grows, I doubt it can sustain them much longer either.

What amazes me is that nobody has run on a platform of building algae harvesting facilities (indoor facilities) in Iowa and Michigan. Instead of being wistful for the 1950s, this is a realistic solution that could rejuvenate the Rust Belt.

[scottinnj]

Gas went below 3 bucks a gallon in certain areas of Atlantic County for the first time since March.

Crashing Economy, keep on tumbling!

[Foster]

What amazes me is that nobody has run on a platform of building algae harvesting facilities (indoor facilities) in Iowa and Michigan. Instead of being wistful for the 1950s, this is a realistic solution that could rejuvenate the Rust Belt.

i started growing algae in my bathroom years ago,
i'm green baby!

[TooLowBrow]

In addition, sugar is chemically structured to be a more efficient source of ethanol. However, sugar harvesting beats the crap out of the terrain it's growing on, so it doesn't quite work as a long-term energy solution for the United States, and as Brazil's economy grows, I doubt it can sustain them much longer either.

What amazes me is that nobody has run on a platform of building algae harvesting facilities (indoor facilities) in Iowa and Michigan. Instead of being wistful for the 1950s, this is a realistic solution that could rejuvenate the Rust Belt.

someone's gotta harvest big a's bellybutton

[RAAMONE]

paid 2.89 last night

[Jughead]

paid 2.89 last night

That is great...3.03 this am here

[Dougie Brootal]

3.29 here. although i dont have any money to actually buy gas...

[Knowledged_one]

Under $3 here in Ohio

$2.49 for E85

[OGC]

Thanks for ruining my day. I thought I was doing well paying $3.19 per gallon this morning. :glurps:

[Heather 8]

Gas went below 3 bucks a gallon in certain areas of Atlantic County for the first time since March.

Crashing Economy, keep on tumbling!

Just filled up for $2.97 a gallon at a Wawa in Monmouth.

[patsopinion]

William Somerset: I just don't think I can continue to live in a place that embraces and nurtures apathy as if it was virtue.
David Mills: You're no different. You're no better.
William Somerset: I didn't say I was different or better. I'm not. Hell, I sympathize; I sympathize completely. Apathy is the solution. I mean, it's easier to lose yourself in drugs than it is to cope with life. It's easier to steal what you want than it is to earn it. It's easier to beat a child than it is to raise it. Hell, love costs: it takes effort and work.

[scottinnj]

They got greedy and pushed the price to damn near 150 bucks a barrel, which helped destroy the economy of the US and the world-like a Perfect Storm to contribute to the mortgage meltdown.

Now that oil is at a "bargain" price of about 85 bucks a barrel, OPEC nations are holding an emergency meeting (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081009/oil_prices.html?.v=10)to find ways to cut production and rape the world again.

[Knowledged_one]

$2.70 for Regular

$2.20 for E85

[RAAMONE]

2.63

[Knowledged_one]

gas in ohio is down $1.18 from last month

$2.20 for E85

[Dougie Brootal]

2.97


love how its dropping everyday now that mcain is dying in the polls!

yay "democracy"!

[Knowledged_one]

2.97


love how its dropping everyday now that mcain is dying in the polls!

yay "democracy"!

Well the price drop actually started when Bush announced we were going to drill off shore. This drop is not effected in the least by the presidential race

[booster11373]

Yay!! lower gas prices! and all it took was the whole economy going down the toilet

[RAAMONE]

$2.43

[sailor]

Yay!! lower gas prices! and all it took was the whole economy going down the toilet

as reagan said, never confuse the economy with the stock market.

[Dougie Brootal]

Well the price drop actually started when Bush announced we were going to drill off shore. This drop is not effected in the least by the presidential race

cant you just let me live in ignorance?!?!

2.82

[spadanko]

2.65 for regular on Route 3 in clifton

[Knowledged_one]

$2.41 for 87

But i filled up for $1.91 on E85

[thepaulo]

I won't be happy until gas goes under $1.00.

[Knowledged_one]

I won't be happy until gas goes under $1.00.

prepare to be unhappy for a long long time

[Whiskeyportal]

these drops won't last. the middle east will get hot again and then oil prices will rise again and all will return to normal.

[Zorro]

2.65 for regular on Route 3 in clifton

Last time I got gas was 10/3 and paid $3.51.

[hunnerbun]

In the past 2 weeks gas here has gone from $1.34/L to $1.15/L. Diesel on the other hand has not dropped in price at all. In fact there is a Diesel Shortage (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1760198620081017) in western Canada for some reason. Weird....I remember when diesel used to be at least 20 cents cheaper then gas, what the hell happened.

[Knowledged_one]

In the past 2 weeks gas here has gone from $1.34/L to $1.15/L. Diesel on the other hand has not dropped in price at all. In fact there is a Diesel Shortage (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1760198620081017) in western Canada for some reason. Weird....I remember when diesel used to be at least 20 cents cheaper then gas, what the hell happened.

For those of us that are metrically challenged

1 liter = 0.264172052 US gallons

[Jujubees2]

In the past 2 weeks gas here has gone from $1.34/L to $1.15/L. Diesel on the other hand has not dropped in price at all. In fact there is a Diesel Shortage (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1760198620081017) in western Canada for some reason. Weird....I remember when diesel used to be at least 20 cents cheaper then gas, what the hell happened.

ICE ROAD TRUCKERS!

http://www.history.com/minisites/iceroadtruckers/images/trucker-photos/hugh.jpg

[Knowledged_one]

Average price of gas is now less then what it was a year ago

[Dougie Brootal]

2.70

but its goin back up soon. opec cut production today.

[RAAMONE]

2.70

but its goin back up soon. opec cut production today.

2.35 FACE

[Knowledged_one]

2.70

but its goin back up soon. opec cut production today.

Thats ok, what caused the hike was the uncontrolled speculation that caused it to raise so high, and with the way the global economy is it wont go back to what it was or even close as most americans are still conserving as best as possible

and teh price nationally is down $.04 just today

[Knowledged_one]

2.35 FACE

$2.21 for 87 Face
$1.71 For E85 Super Face

[Dougie Brootal]

Thats ok, what caused the hike was the uncontrolled speculation that caused it to raise so high, and with the way the global economy is it wont go back to what it was or even close as most americans are still conserving as best as possible

and teh price nationally is down $.04 just today

from your lips to allah's ears...

[Knowledged_one]

from your lips to allah's ears...

asa lama lakim

[SPeeDy_Freak]

Wednesday evening in my town: $2.71
Thursday evening... same town... same station: $2.62

How can anyone justify such a rapid reduction without admitting that many of these companies have been profiting unfairly.

In fact, the price went down to $2.59 on Friday at 6 am... and is now at $2.57.

How is this possible?

[Knowledged_one]

Wednesday evening in my town: $2.71
Thursday evening... same town... same station: $2.62

How can anyone justify such a rapid reduction without admitting that many of these companies have been profiting unfairly.

In fact, the price went down to $2.59 on Friday at 6 am... and is now at $2.57.

How is this possible?

Most stations are independently run not run by the companies, the companies dont set the price for the gas

Its lowered because everything is going down with oil, what sucks is that it doesnt fall as rapidly as it rises

and just check this out about oil companies and you will be a little more clear on oil companies

http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion

And know this if the US Gov't drops the tax breaks that these companies get, be prepared for higher gas prices as the people that will suffer will be the american people not the lawmakers

[SatCam]

Most stations are independently run not run by the companies, the companies dont set the price for the gas

i was under the impression that the gas station owners just had a standard mark-up based on the price they bought the gas at...................

[booster11373]

The only time the price should change is when a new supply of gas is purchased why it would change between re-supplies makes little sense

[Dougie Brootal]

The only time the price should change is when a new supply of gas is purchased why it would change between re-supplies makes little sense

i thought the same thing as i drove past the same gas station that had 2.70 on my way to work this morning and saw it at 2.68 on the way home!

[IMSlacker]

i was under the impression that the gas station owners just had a standard mark-up based on the price they bought the gas at...................

The only time the price should change is when a new supply of gas is purchased why it would change between re-supplies makes little sense

Retail gas prices are determined more by the market (what the guy across the street is charging) than the cost of supply.

[keverlast]

For those of us that are metrically challenged

1 liter = 0.264172052 US gallons


97cents Liter, up here in good ole Alberta, its about fuckn time. $25 bucks worth of gas actually gets me half full.

[RhinoinMN]

Retail gas prices are determined more by the market (what the guy across the street is charging) than the cost of supply.

Our local gas station got in trouble for selling gas too cheap.

[Dan 'Hampton]

Gas station by me dropped from 3.29 to 2.99 in 8 hours a couple weeks ago. No matter what OPEC does people are still freaked about the economy and consumption will be down.

[Jughead]

2.38 this am...Its getting better for how long I know not...

[led37zep]

I'm in Vegas and gas on the strip is 2.86...first time i've seen it below 3 bucks in a while.

[KnoxHarrington]

Wheres the outrage over this ethanol farce? The price of food is going up, there are food riots and the politicians on both sides are pushing for more of this false hope of ethanol and other biofuels. These agri businesses are being subsidized with our tax dollars and it has done nothing for our energy problem

Well, one hopeful sign is that in this election, both McCain and Obama have criticized ethanol subsidies. So maybe this will change.

The thing is that biofuel is a great idea, it's just that corn is possibly the worst thing to use for it. The best thing? Algae. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel) But there aren't really huge algae agribusiness firms out there with big political connections, unfortunately.