If They Lived?

[Sheeplovr]

so If they lived do you think they would still be good or get better? or totally fail?

i wonder what Chris Farley would be dooing would it jsut be really aweful comedies he started that road with bevily hills ninja how worse would it get

[reillyluck]

As discussed on the show....

do you think that the careers of actors/actresses who died young would have been sucessful had they not died so suddenly?

[sailor]

As discussed on the show....

do you think that the careers of actors/actresses who died young would have been sucessful had they not died so suddenly?
yes.




next question.

[Furtherman]

You mean, if they lived?

[Furtherman]

You mean, better off dying young?

[RAAMONE]

As discussed on the show....

do you think that the careers of actors/actresses who died young would have been sucessful had they not died so suddenly?

stealing sheepy's job?

[TheMojoPin]

i wonder what Chris Farley would be dooing would it jsut be really aweful comedies he started that road with bevily hills ninja how worse would it get

It easily could have gotten very worse...though he was actually signed to do the voice of Shrek, and was in negotitions to star in a biopic of Fatty Arbuckle, so who knows?

[reillyluck]

stealing sheepy's job?

not stealing, just participating. :smile:

[sailor]

You mean, if they lived?

You mean, better off dying young?

both

[reillyluck]

You mean, if they lived?

You mean, better off dying young?

you mean....you dont have an answer to the topic? :tongue:

[mikeyboy]

stolen from Casey, but how much different would Jeff Buckley be perceived today if he had lived?

[realmenhatelife]

I think Farley is really overrated, and he would've made everyone sick of him. People comparing him to belushi is fucking insane.

I think the guy who wrote 'Dangerous Lives of Alter Boys' would've had a decent career, like Michael Chabon's career, if he hadn't kicked.

[Furtherman]

you mean....you dont have an answer to the topic? :tongue:

My meaning was lost in the merger!

[A.J.]

From the music world:

Buddy Holly
Duane Allman

I think they would have gone onto even better stuff.

[Knowledged_one]

stealing sheepy's job?

no translating horrible spelling

[mikeyboy]

I think Farley's career would have burned out eventually. He was a pretty gifted physical comedian, but he didn't have a lot of acting range, and just about every role was pretty similar. People probably would have tired of his movies sooner or later. Of course, he might have eventually been very successful on a tv series. Take a look at someone similar range-wise -- Tracy Morgan. Every character he plays is really some variation on the Tracy Morgan persona, so there's not a lot he can do. However his role on 30 Rock is pretty perfectly written for him, so maybe Farley could have found his niche that way.

[PanterA]

I wish I could have seen how big Sublime would have been today if Bradly didnt die.

[DolaMight]

I wonder if Jean Claude Van Damme was still alive whether he would have had continued success or faded away.

[ChrisTheCop]

I was kinda hoping for a Duets III from Ole Blue Eyes.

(perhaps with all the kids from american idol).

[paracetamol flanders]

stolen from Casey, but how much different would Jeff Buckley be perceived today if he had lived?

He would have long since settled down as Rufus Wainwright's house husband. And he'd be my favourite American Idol judge.

[Tall_James]

With Farley, he died as his voice work as Shrek was almost complete. The character had to be recast with Mike Myers voice. Would the movies have been as popular with Farley as the voice lead? I say yes because ultimately, the movies are designed for kids. He would have reached a new target audience and perhaps branched off into a new genre (family entertainment) that he hadn't tapped into. The same way that Eddie Murphy did successfully when he started doing Shrek, Dr. Doolittle and the Nutty Professor.

I haven't been listening to the show today so sorry if this point was already raised.

[Tall_James]

He would have long since settled down as Rufus Wainwright's house husband. And he'd be my favourite American Idol judge.

I want to be invited to their next Oscar party.

[Dougie Brootal]

i wonder if tags would be as awesome as they were had they not been taken away so early....

[paracetamol flanders]

I think Skrewdriver would be playing all white stadiums if Ian Stuart Donaldson had not died.

[Hottub]

If Andrew Wood didn't die, Mother Love Bone may have been THE band of the time.

[Tall_James]

I think Skrewdriver would be playing all white stadiums if Ian Stuart Donaldson had not died.

That post is just so wrong in its brilliance.

[Dougie Brootal]

If Andrew Wood didn't die, Mother Love Bone may have been THE band of the time.

but then we'd wouldnt have early 90's supergroup Temple Of The Dog!

[Tall_James]

If Andrew Wood didn't die, Mother Love Bone may have been THE band of the time.

Nope. That still goes to Sadgasm.

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[DolaMight]

The Big Bopper? Tell me you wouldn't be rockin Big Bopper's latest album "Still Boppin After All These Years" on your pod.

[Thebazile78]

I think Farley's career would have burned out eventually. He was a pretty gifted physical comedian, but he didn't have a lot of acting range, and just about every role was pretty similar. People probably would have tired of his movies sooner or later. .....

I don't think so.

Just look at Adam Sandler.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Phil Hartman... I wonder about what if he lived almost every day. The 10-year anniversary is in about 2 weeks

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Here I was expecting a thread about a John Carpenter movie.

If Bill Hicks hadn't died I bet he'd have Lewis Black's spot on the Daily Show. And he would have had the best episode of Unmasked ever.

[bossdjbware]

I wish I could have seen how big Sublime would have been today if Bradly didnt die.

I think about that quite often. After Brad died, LBDAS took it into more of a dance hall reggae sound rather then the punk/reggae/ska that Sublime had. I liked the All-Stars but they paled in comparison to Sublime and Bradley's writing. Some of which was probably a result of his drug use.

[epo]

Here I was expecting a thread about a John Carpenter movie.

If Bill Hicks hadn't died I bet he'd have Lewis Black's spot on the Daily Show. And he would have had the best episode of Unmasked ever.

During the last 8 years, Bill Hicks would have been the King of the comedy world. He would have been greatly "controversial" until 2005, and then hailed as a genius today.

http://magazine.brighton.co.uk/assets/images/hicks12.jpg

[jeffdwright2001]

If Farley had lived, I doubt he would have skyrocketed career wise. Living doesn't mean that you necessarily get a handle on the problem.

He would have been a hit in the tabloids but I doubt critical success would have followed.

[sailor]

During the last 8 years, Bill Hicks would have been the King of the comedy world. He would have been greatly "controversial" until 2005, and then hailed as a genius today.

http://magazine.brighton.co.uk/assets/images/hicks12.jpg

i wonder. i find it very interesting ron's point that no one asked about hicks when he was alive.

[TheMojoPin]

i wonder. i find it very interesting ron's point that no one asked about hicks when he was alive.

That's a pretty big exaggeration on Ron's part. Compared to his stature now, sure, but in his life he had cable TV specials and made several national TV appearances plus his albums and seemingly nonstop touring. Plenty of people definitely knew of Bill Hicks before he died, especially other comedians. His work and then his death really inspired a LOT of comedians over the last 10-15 years, so it's interesting to think of how different much of comedy would be if he lived...would as many people be aping or "homage-ing" him if he had lived?

Dennis Leary definitely wouldn't have had a career.

[TheMojoPin]

Phil Hartman... I wonder about what if he lived almost every day. The 10-year anniversary is in about 2 weeks

That'll never stop being depressing.

I think he could have definitely moved into a cool "comedy elder statesman" role like Bill Murray and handled some acclaimed dramatic roles.

[Mike Teacher]

Yep I'm patting myself on the back...

I sent Ron an article on historical contingency and jazz players in the NY Times. Wayyyyy back. I forget the guys name, because he's not famous at all, but there was a time when he was the Next Big Thing in NY Jazz in the 50s/60s, it was short, but never happened.

Here the contingency was that the guy didnt die. If he had died young, we'd still be talking about the huge loss to music and what we would have heard from the guy. But we did. We heard that he faded back into obscurity and got old, like all the other bazillion flavors of the week here today gone later today world of fame.

People outlive thier fame, and thats a bitch in the Human Drama.

Evolutionary biologist Stephen Gould bases so much of his theory on contingency; if we rewound the tape of events back just a little bit, how different would things be if X Y and Z didnt happen.

The tiniest things. Like how a few thousand dodgy votes in Chicago are why we talk about the fact that humans have been to other worlds and walked on them.

[MagillaGorillaz]

just imagine if J.F.K was never shot. This would be a completly different country.

Him and that chick from "My sister Sam". Yup the world would be a whole lot different.

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[Melissa the Accountant]

I don't think so.

Just look at Adam Sandler.

That reminds me! Last weekend when we went and saw Iron Man, they played the trailer for his new movie. I was sitting there watching it, thinking how much I did not want to see it and how it seemed weird that there was even a market for this type of shit. The people behind me were sitting there going HAW HAW HAW at the whole thing.

Then the next trailer was for the new Mike Myers movie, and it looked like the worst thing ever. And the people behind us we still going HAW HAW HAW and snorting. And I thought, hey, Adam Sandler's not so bad. Maybe I haven't liked all his movies, but he seems like a good guy.

So if I had to pick between the two, I'd go for the Sandler movie. It looks like it could have a couple of funny moments. The Mike Myers looks like a total abortion and made me wish he'd died at birth.

[djjd]

Too Late to Die Young
Dan Bern

The day the Elvis died was like a mercy killing
America breathed a sigh of relief
We knew all about the drugs and the Vegas shows
And there wasn't much of anything that looked like grief

And I guess he shoulda done like James Dean did
'Stead of putting on weight and sinking down, down, down
Easier to take if he had just skidded straight
To souvenir city and T-shirt town

And sometimes I wish I was smarter that I am
But I'm on my 3rd city
And I'm on my 4th car
And I'm on my 5th apartment
And so many of my days have sprung

And now it's too late to crash
Too late to burn
Too late to die young

If Pete Rose had exploded like Roberto Clemente
He'd be hanging in the Hall of Fame without fail
Can you name the last good film Marlon Brando made
While trying to keep his kid from going to jail
And the old people in the street are telling you
"Don't become like me" but
Every day you creep a little bit closer

And I guess we shoulda done like James Dean did
'Stead of putting on weight and sinking down, down, down
Easier to take if we'd have had just skidded straight
To souvenir city and T-shirt town

And sometimes I wish I was smarter that I am
But I'm on my 3rd city
And I'm on my 4th car
And I'm on my 5th apartment
And so many of my days have sprung

And now it's too late to crash
Too late to burn
Too late to die
Now its too late to crash
Too late to burn
Too late to die young

[outlawfrank]

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/9589/poltergeistjx4.jpg

Heather O'Rourke star of Poltergeist 1 & 2 would have been Drew Barrymore's stunt double.

[Gvac]

People attain a certain cult status when they die in their prime and people always say "Imagine what he/she would have done had they lived!" When they say that, they always assume the person would have continued rising at the same meteoric pace as they did right before their untimely death. Maybe the opposite would have been true.

Take Jimi Hendrix, for example. Maybe he would have completely blown, and once the psychedelic era passed he would have been rendered obsolete. We'll never know.

Would Kurt Cobain still be relevant if he were alive today and in his 40's? Doubtful.

[sailor]

That'll never stop being depressing.

I think he could have definitely moved into a cool "comedy elder statesman" role like Bill Murray and handled some acclaimed dramatic roles.

except hartman was funny.

[epo]

That's a pretty big exaggeration on Ron's part. Compared to his stature now, sure, but in his life he had cable TV specials and made several national TV appearances plus his albums and seemingly nonstop touring. Plenty of people definitely knew of Bill Hicks before he died, especially other comedians. His work and then his death really inspired a LOT of comedians over the last 10-15 years, so it's interesting to think of how different much of comedy would be if he lived...would as many people be aping or "homage-ing" him if he had lived?

Dennis Leary definitely wouldn't have had a career.

Or Leary would have had more of a comedy career? His material did seem to run dry after Hicks died.

[TheMojoPin]

Or Leary would have had more of a comedy career? His material did seem to run dry after Hicks died.

Yeah, but Leary's didn't really take off until Hicks was basically all but dead.

[TheMojoPin]

except hartman was funny.

Ohhhhhhh, NOW who's Mr. "I Gotta Pick Something Different Just to be Cool?"

I knew you'd come around.

[PapaBear]

If James Dean had lived, he'd probably be horribly disfigured.:huh:

[sailor]

Ohhhhhhh, NOW who's Mr. "I Gotta Pick Something Different Just to be Cool?"

I knew you'd come around.

what, hartman's not funny?


i've never gotten the whole love of murray, chevy chase and/or steve martin.

[NewYorkDragons80]

what, hartman's not funny?


i've never gotten the whole love of murray, chevy chase and/or steve martin.
You might as well throw Martin Short in there and complete the set. Bill Murray is a genius and his dry delivery style is totally different than the other 2 clowns you mentioned in that sentence. The guy hasn't used a script in any of his films in about 2 decades. Let's face facts; he's the film version of Mr. Bennington.

[Melissa the Accountant]

People attain a certain cult status when they die in their prime and people always say "Imagine what he/she would have done had they lived!" When they say that, they always assume the person would have continued rising at the same meteoric pace as they did right before their untimely death. Maybe the opposite would have been true.

Take Jimi Hendrix, for example. Maybe he would have completely blown, and once the psychedelic era passed he would have been rendered obsolete. We'll never know.

Would Kurt Cobain still be relevant if he were alive today and in his 40's? Doubtful.

I heard "Kodachrome" by Paul Simon on my way home from work yesterday and was thinking about this thread, only in sort of its reverse context. What if Art Garfunkel had died in like 1970, right as he was peaking? People would probably treat him the same way they did the Big Bopper. Nobody would sit around and say, "Well if Garfunkel had lived he would have gone on to do bits for the kids' show 'Arthur'."

Let's face facts; he's the film version of Mr. Bennington.

Correct.

[sailor]

You might as well throw Martin Short in there and complete the set. Bill Murray is a genius and his dry delivery style is totally different than the other 2 clowns you mentioned in that sentence. The guy hasn't used a script in any of his films in about 2 decades. Let's face facts; he's the film version of Mr. Bennington.

except ron's funny.

[TheMojoPin]

what, hartman's not funny?

No, your rebellious stance that Bill Murray has never been funny.

[sailor]

No, your rebellious stance that Bill Murray has never been funny.

yes, it was obvious you meant that.

[DolaMight]

what, hartman's not funny?


i've never gotten the whole love of murray, chevy chase and/or steve martin.

Hartman was funny but his genius was making others funny. Gotta be in the top 3 straightmen of all time. When spade and everyone else lost it during the original Matt Foley sketch, he held all that together. He was amazing.

As for Murray and Chase(to a lesser extent), I don't see how anyone could not get how why they're still respected, between SNL and caddyshack alone they were hilarious and unique personalities, and in live interviews they were always on.

Steve Martin should not be lumped in with them. His supposed best work is "The Jerk", which I saw again last night, is just mediocre forced humor. Humor for people who like silly hats. I'll throw Martin Short on that short bus too while I'm at it.

[TheMojoPin]

Hartman was funny but his genius was making others funny. Gotta be in the top 3 straightmen of all time. When spade and everyone else lost it during the original Matt Foley sketch, he held all that together. He was amazing.

They rightly called him "the glue" on SNL. And as much as I love Newsradio's ensemle cast, it was a Godsend for them to have him as the anchor.

[Thebazile78]

.....

Steve Martin should not be lumped in with them. His supposed best work is "The Jerk", which I saw again last night, is just mediocre forced humor. Humor for people who like silly hats. I'll throw Martin Short on that short bus too while I'm at it.

Steve Martin has a very special place in my heart. I loved listening to his old stand-up bits as a kid, I loved it when he guest-hosted SNL and I used to think The Jerk was uproarious...but I'd only seen it on regular TV, edited for content. I haven't seen it in years, but I disagree.

Honestly, I think his best films are Parenthood[/I (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098067/)] (1989), the remake of [I]Father of the Bride (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101862/) (1991) and the remake of Father's Little Dividend (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043526/) (1951) ... the oh-so-imaginatively-titled Father of the Bride Part II (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113041/) (1995) ... I watch these every time they are on TV. Every time. (I am not kidding.)

I guess what makes you laugh depends a great deal on how you perceive the comedians while they're performing.

For example, a lot of people love Norm MacDonald and think he's uproarious. I can't fucking stand him because I perceive him as smug and smirky. (That ruins it for me.)

I love things that are so silly they've become absurd ... Steve Martin, in a way, explored a lot of that absurdity with his stand-up act. Martin Short, in his early work, also perfected the absurd. (Now, he's more like a caricature of himself.) Chevy Chase is one of the modern masters of the pratfall, much like Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin and Jackie Chan.

Bill Murray is weird. You have to be in the same groove to think he's funny. I thought he was funny even when I wasn't old enough to understand what made him funny. I still think he's funny. (Even when he's pulled over for driving golf carts while intoxicated (http://www.showbuzz.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/22/people_hot_water/main3193735.shtml).)

I thought Phil Hartman was among the few gods of comedy we were blessed with in the modern age ... if he hadn't been killed, I'd have loved to see where his writing would have taken him, maybe in the Tina Fey mode if we're using examples of other SNL alumni. The world needs more straightmen ... just look at Leslie Nielsen in the Naked Gun movies and compare how much funnier he is in those than he was in Dracula, Dead and Loving It ... and Nielsen started in the movies as a dramatic lead!

[DolaMight]

Steve Martin has a very special place in my heart. I loved listening to his old stand-up bits as a kid, I loved it when he guest-hosted SNL and I used to think The Jerk was uproarious...but I'd only seen it on regular TV, edited for content. I haven't seen it in years, but I disagree.

Honestly, I think his best films are Parenthood[/I (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098067/)] (1989), the remake of [I]Father of the Bride (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101862/) (1991) and the remake of Father's Little Dividend (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043526/) (1951) ... the oh-so-imaginatively-titled Father of the Bride Part II (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113041/) (1995) ... I watch these every time they are on TV. Every time. (I am not kidding.)

I guess what makes you laugh depends a great deal on how you perceive the comedians while they're performing.

For example, a lot of people love Norm MacDonald and think he's uproarious. I can't fucking stand him because I perceive him as smug and smirky. (That ruins it for me.)

I love things that are so silly they've become absurd ... Steve Martin, in a way, explored a lot of that absurdity with his stand-up act. Martin Short, in his early work, also perfected the absurd. (Now, he's more like a caricature of himself.) Chevy Chase is one of the modern masters of the pratfall, much like Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin and Jackie Chan.

Bill Murray is weird. You have to be in the same groove to think he's funny. I thought he was funny even when I wasn't old enough to understand what made him funny. I still think he's funny. (Even when he's pulled over for driving golf carts while intoxicated (http://www.showbuzz.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/22/people_hot_water/main3193735.shtml).)

I thought Phil Hartman was among the few gods of comedy we were blessed with in the modern age ... if he hadn't been killed, I'd have loved to see where his writing would have taken him, maybe in the Tina Fey mode if we're using examples of other SNL alumni. The world needs more straightmen ... just look at Leslie Nielsen in the Naked Gun movies and compare how much funnier he is in those than he was in Dracula, Dead and Loving It ... and Nielsen started in the movies as a dramatic lead!

That was an excellent synopsis on humor. And your freudian personality/humor types matched me to a T. Norm MacDonald and Murray are it for me, and I can't stand those you adore(Fey, Martin). We're polar opposites.

It's not that I think they're stupid or not funny, I respect them because they have to be smart to be successful long term and when I dissect their humor I can appreciate it when it's clever, it's just their idea of humor completely hits a wall with me, makes me cringe more than laugh.

It still amazes me how different people's humor can be. It must have something to do with the fact that my entire sense of humor is rooted in sarcasm.

[patsopinion]

boondocks recently had a thing about what if mlk had lived

funny as hell

and made a number of really good points
check it out if you getta chance

5 stars

[Thebazile78]

That was an excellent synopsis on humor. And your freudian personality/humor types matched me to a T. Norm MacDonald and Murray are it for me, and I can't stand those you adore(Fey, Martin). We're polar opposites.

It's not that I think they're stupid or not funny, I respect them because they have to be smart to be successful long term and when I dissect their humor I can appreciate it when it's clever, it's just their idea of humor completely hits a wall with me, makes me cringe more than laugh.

It still amazes me how different people's humor can be. It must have something to do with the fact that my entire sense of humor is rooted in sarcasm.

I'm not a Tina Fey fan, per se ... I can't stand her, but I do think that she writes well. Plus, she's one of the more successful women in the business ... maybe she is what Gilda Radner would have been had she lived. (I loved Gilda on SNL; she was truly funny.)

Or maybe she'd have faded into obscurity a la Jane Curtain. (Damn shame, too. Jane was a great straightman.)

[DolaMight]

I'm not a Tina Fey fan, per se ... I can't stand her

I'm sorry I made that assumption, if someone accused me of adoring Tina Fey I'd be furious. I may have confused you with one of the other rfnet girls who loved her. Tenbats is lucky to have someone so knowledgeable in comedy.

[sailor]

They rightly called him "the glue" on SNL. And as much as I love Newsradio's ensemle cast, it was a Godsend for them to have him as the anchor.

it's startling how much newsradio went downhill after he was killed.

[TheMojoPin]

it's startling how much newsradio went downhill after he was killed.

It definitely was good that it ended when it did, but I think people slam that last season a little too automatically. Phil was awesome, bt like I said, that show was lucky to be one of the few with a REALLY good ensemble cast, and there are still plenty of hysterical episodes in that final season. Granted, it's much more absurd than the show was for the most part in its first 4 years, but that last season's tone and willingness to just go "logically nuts" with a huge cast really strikes me as how it's like a proto-Arrested Development.

[A.J.]

Or maybe she'd have faded into obscurity a la Jane Curtain. (Damn shame, too. Jane was a great straightman.)

She was an ignorant slut!

[NewYorkDragons80]

It definitely was good that it ended when it did, but I think people slam that last season a little too automatically. Phil was awesome, bt like I said, that show was lucky to be one of the few with a REALLY good ensemble cast, and there are still plenty of hysterical episodes in that final season. Granted, it's much more absurd than the show was for the most part in its first 4 years, but that last season's tone and willingness to just go "logically nuts" with a huge cast really strikes me as how it's like a proto-Arrested Development.
There were a few good episodes in that last season, but I got the vibe that the cast really didn't want to be there anymore. Don't get me wrong, it's a really talented cast even without Phil Hartman, but after he died, I think they were phoning it in. IMO, NBC kept the show going for the sole purpose of drawing in viewers for Phil's tribute episode.

Does anybody else think Mitch Hedberg gets a little too much of the die young free pass?

[TheMojoPin]

There were a few good episodes in that last season, but I got the vibe that the cast really didn't want to be there anymore. Don't get me wrong, it's a really talented cast even without Phil Hartman, but after he died, I think they were phoning it in. IMO, NBC kept the show going for the sole purpose of drawing in viewers for Phil's tribute episode.

Listening to the commentaries and watching the episodes, I don't think there's any way they didn't want to do at least that final season. There's no way that they wanted Phil's death to be the final statement of the show. Obviously, it was difficult doing it after losing Phil, but it would have been way too morbid and a shitty tribute to him to let his death also be the instant death of the show. Most everyone involved sounds like they knew that that was going to be the last season.

Does anybody else think Mitch Hedberg gets a little too much of the die young free pass?

Dude would have killed if he had just done cartoon voicework for the rest of his life.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Dude would have killed if he had just done cartoon voicework for the rest of his life.
I'm not saying Mitch wasn't really funny. He was probably in the top 5 comics working at that point in time. It's just that I've heard the word "genius" thrown around a little too liberally when speaking of Mitch.

[midwestjeff]

I can't even imagine how much better the world would be if Anna Nicole was still alive. She had so much left to give.

[watson]

so If they lived do you think they would still be good or get better? or totally fail?

i wonder what Chris Farley would be dooing would it jsut be really aweful comedies he started that road with bevily hills ninja how worse would it get

can you please phrase this in the form of a question, thank you.

[Furtherman]

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