man beat kid: killed

[RAAMONE]

yeah this guy definatly deserved to die...but this is one of those situations where i would want to hear why he did it? what were his reasons?

also...did officers have the right to kill this guy...they shot him after they told him to stop beating the child...

yeah i'm sure it was terrible to watch, but you mean to tell me several police officers couldnt tackle an unarmed man so he can rot in jail for the rest of his life...just surprised there not somebody out there screaming about bad police procedure

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/17/toddler.killed.ap/index.html

[A.J.]

A Modesto police officer, Jerry Ramar, fatally shot Aguilar after he failed to heed the officer's warning to stop beating the child, authorities said. Aguilar flashed his middle finger at Ramar before Ramar shot him in the forehead, police said.

I want to personally thank Jerry Ramar for quickly and cheaply ridding the world of an oxygen thief.

[ANC]

I want to personally thank Jerry Ramar for quickly and cheaply ridding the world of an oxygen thief.

QFT, this officer deserves the medal of honor.

[EliSnow]

yeah this guy definatly deserved to die...but this is one of those situations where i would want to hear why he did it? what were his reasons?

also...did officers have the right to kill this guy...they shot him after they told him to stop beating the child...

yeah i'm sure it was terrible to watch, but you mean to tell me several police officers couldnt tackle an unarmed man so he can rot in jail for the rest of his life...just surprised there not somebody out there screaming about bad police procedure

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/17/toddler.killed.ap/index.html


The guy clearly was using deadly force against someone, regardless of whether he was unarmed or not. In that case, the policie are allowed to use deadly force in return. They are not required to try all non-lethal options before resorting to deadly force.

If the guy was unarmed and was coming at the police and there was no kid, then yes, you may have an issue.

Not in this case.

[RhinoinMN]

QFT, this officer deserves the medal of honor.

Yep. If this cop skates it will prove that we are finally progressing as a society.

[donnie_darko]

i've read a lot of reports about this story.

There were at least SIX men present watching the beating, and somehow none of these people together could stop this attack?

NEXT, the man said the kid was trash and infested by demons...

And finally, how do six men let a man beat a 2 year old to death? The beating takes place so long that sheriff's can land via helicopter, when they tell the man to stop beating the kid he gives the cops the finger and continues to beat on the kid.

How anyone can question if the cop was right for shooting a man for kicking a 2 year old to death is fucking retarded, A grown man striking a two year old is obviously attempted murder, i'm sure a grown man could kill a 2 year old with 1 punch or kick to the proper location, so obviously a man kicking a 2 year old who is unconscious and laying on the ground is trying to kill the kid.

you have to be fucking sick to even question this.

The question is how do SIX GROWN MEN let this happen?

[TheMojoPin]

i've read a lot of reports about this story.

There were at least SIX men present watching the beating, and somehow none of these people together could stop this attack?

NEXT, the man said the kid was trash and infested by demons...

And finally, how do six men let a man beat a 2 year old to death? The beating takes place so long that sheriff's can land via helicopter, when they tell the man to stop beating the kid he gives the cops the finger and continues to beat on the kid.

How anyone can question if the cop was right for shooting a man for kicking a 2 year old to death is fucking retarded, A grown man striking a two year old is obviously attempted murder, i'm sure a grown man could kill a 2 year old with 1 punch or kick to the proper location, so obviously a man kicking a 2 year old who is unconscious and laying on the ground is trying to kill the kid.

you have to be fucking sick to even question this.

The question is how do SIX GROWN MEN let this happen?

Diffusion of responsibility. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility)

Bystander effect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect)

Besides, reading the news stories, it's not like SIX GROWN MEN were there the whole time. The initial witnesses were an elderly couple, so I suppose that guy counts as REALLY GROWN. Secondly, there are no details as to what they specifically encountered outside of this guy whomping on his kid. He could have been screaming threats at the other people or saying he had a weapon. In an extreme, high stress, dangerous situation like that, we get defensive. Most of us are not danger-be-damned, noble vigilantes who leap into a situation like that without thinking of our own safety. Whether people want to admit it or not, self-preservation is going to win out 9 out of 10 times. That's survival instinct. This guy is probably hollering insane things and clearly doing something insane and dangerous, so of course people are going to be wary about just diving in. A group eventually forming actualy increases the odds nobody does anything because the people coming up think things like, "why isn't anyone doing anything? They must have seen or heard something that's maing them hold back. I better do the same." Most of the rest of us here would have non-reacted in the exact same way in those circumstances. Encountering extreme, dangerous situations like that are incredibly rare, and the brutal truth is that unless you have a job or extensive experience otherwise (ie-being a cop, firefighter, soldier, etc.) putting your life on the line, your natural instinct is going to be to preserve yourself.

[CambriaBurning]

Wow... Just... wow. I live somewhat near Turlock, and yeah, I'm not that surprised. It's a SHIT area of California, and will someone please tell Mexicans to stop being so superstitious about demons and dark spirits and shit? This is just ridiculous.

Still, one person wouldn't stop the guy? I'll gladly take a beating to keep a 2 year old from getting beaten down like that.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Is that so much a Mexican thing or a Catholic thing? Korean catholics are equally wacky... you aren't allowed to have a fan in the bedroom because they think it will suck away your soul while you sleep.

I dated a chick whose father beat on her mother and 2 year old brother- threw the tot down the steps after blackening mom's eyes- really fucked the three of them up for life before he ran back into Mexico to avoid conviction. The cops couldn't have shot this guy enough times.

[CambriaBurning]

I don't know about Korean Catholics, I've never really encountered them... but that fan thing does make perfect logical sense :wacko:.

[donnie_darko]

it's great that you can bring up excuses for people, and that seems to bring you some level of comfort, but it doesn't work for me.

[EliSnow]

it's great that you can bring up excuses for people, and that seems to bring you some level of comfort, but it doesn't work for me.

It's not excuses. It's a way to understand what seems to be something you can't understand. Psychologists have looked into this type of situation for years, after since Kitty Genovese was killed after dozens of people did not call the cops after hearing her cries for help.

[TheMojoPin]

it's great that you can bring up excuses for people, and that seems to bring you some level of comfort, but it doesn't work for me.

Who is looking for comfort? That's just life. With few exceptions (cops, firefighters, rescue workers, soldiers, etc.), most people freeze up when confronted with violent, dangerous and threatening situations.

[CambriaBurning]

Let's not veer off the point... concentrate not on the bystanders, but on this ASSHOLE and the cop who made sure this dirtbag didn't need to waste any more of our precious oxygen.

[TheMojoPin]

Let's not veer off the point... concentrate not on the bystanders, but on this ASSHOLE and the cop who made sure this dirtbag didn't need to waste any more of our precious oxygen.

Uh, he was nuts and now he's dead. Is there really that much to talk about?

Oh, and please shrink your sig. They can only be 30k tops to help out people with slower connections.

[Skellington]

I can understand the elderly couple not being able to do much to intervene.

I dunno about you slackers, but behind my pretty leather seat sits a pretty shiney tire iron as well as pretty set of dingie jumper cables. I have a new car, I really don't need them for my car, but, i'll be damned if i haven't been able to chuck the tire iron pretty damn far and use the jumper cables as nunchucks. The point is, it was a child. People are growing up to be PUSSYS nowadays. That's right, a nation full of cowering PUSSYS! Sure, a gun can be pulled on you, you might get stabbed, but how can anyone let a fellow human suffer? Sorry, i've seen a guy hit a chick at a bar, and my pint walloped him in the back of the head. Take me to court, guy was decking a girl. People don't do anything because they don't want to get involved, which makes it all the easier for anyone to be victimized. It's easy to get away with.

Aside from victimization, whatever happened to people just giving a fuck? You see an elderly person on the side of the road with a flat, bloody stop and help. Decent people are few and far between, and it sucks.

I hate everyone.

[ChrisTheCop]

I just read the story, and it says many people tried to help but were unable to.

[TheMojoPin]

I just read the story, and it says many people tried to help but were unable to.

Great point.

Several motorists called 911 and tried to stop the beating, authorities said.

Dan Robinson, a local volunteer fire department chief, told The Modesto Bee that at first glance, he thought the child was a dead animal in the road. He said when he realized it was a child, he tried to stop Aguilar.

Witness Lisa Mota told the San Francisco Chronicle that Aguilar told people who tried to stop him that the boy was "trash."

[A.J.]

Sorry, i've seen a guy hit a chick at a bar, and my pint walloped him in the back of the head. Take me to court, guy was decking a girl.

See that's something that always scares from getting involved: getting some lame-ass lawsuit thrown my way. Without knowing the entire situation, God only knows what you're walking into. What a reward for trying to be a good Samaritan.

EDIT: yes, I know Skelly's example was a guy smacking a girl. That's a pretty clear cut time TO get involved. I was referring to other random situations.

[Friday]

I just read the story, and it says many people tried to help but were unable to.

I read that too... and can't help but wonder why they were unable to. It was one man.... arrgh.
But Mojo's explanation above makes sense... in an upsetting way.
People suck. :sad:

[TheMojoPin]

I can understand the elderly couple not being able to do much to intervene.

I dunno about you slackers, but behind my pretty leather seat sits a pretty shiney tire iron as well as pretty set of dingie jumper cables. I have a new car, I really don't need them for my car, but, i'll be damned if i haven't been able to chuck the tire iron pretty damn far and use the jumper cables as nunchucks. The point is, it was a child. People are growing up to be PUSSYS nowadays. That's right, a nation full of cowering PUSSYS! Sure, a gun can be pulled on you, you might get stabbed, but how can anyone let a fellow human suffer?

Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. Odds are you wouldn't. That's no judegment call on you specifically...that's just how people tend to react when confronted with extremely dangerous situations like this one unless they are of the ilk (soldiers, rescue workers, firefighters, cops, etc.) to routinely put saving other lives over their own safety. Most of us simply don't have that in us.

Sorry, i've seen a guy hit a chick at a bar, and my pint walloped him in the back of the head. Take me to court, guy was decking a girl.

That's not even close to what we're talking about here. Seeing a guy hit someone at a bar, even a woman, sadly, is something relatively common. People react to that because in that split second it's something you recognize as something you can deal with...people are probably there with you, it's crowded, etc.. A guy screaming about demons and savagely beating a child death in the middle of nowhere isn't. That's the kind of extreme situation where our survival instinct kicks in.

People don't do anything because they don't want to get involved, which makes it all the easier for anyone to be victimized. It's easy to get away with.

Sometimes, sure. I doubt that was the case here.

Aside from victimization, whatever happened to people just giving a fuck? You see an elderly person on the side of the road with a flat, bloody stop and help. Decent people are few and far between, and it sucks.

But the people here did stop, tried to stop him and called the police.

[CambriaBurning]

Uh, he was nuts and now he's dead. Is there really that much to talk about?

Oh, and please shrink your sig. They can only be 30k tops to help out people with slower connections.

Do I really have to? I know a good amount of photoshop but I don't know jack about editing animations...

[TheMojoPin]

Do I really have to? I know a good amount of photoshop but I don't know jack about editing animations...

Yeah, those big gif's can really slow page loading for a lot of the posters. Go to the sig pic request forum in the Lounge...people are always helping re-size sigs there.

[scottinnj]

I want to personally thank Jerry Ramar for quickly and cheaply ridding the world of an oxygen thief.

QFT, this officer deserves the medal of honor.

I just read the story, and it says many people tried to help but were unable to.

Good for Officer Ramar. I'm glad the police are here to stop madness like this. I hope the city takes care of this policeman, it had to have shook him up.