Autism

[Freitag]

A called named "Kevin" just dropped a fact that back in the day, 1 in every 10,000 kids was considered autistic, now it's 1 in 160.

Here's the difference on that data: The data has been skewed from calling people "profoundly autistic" (think Rain Man) to including people who have ADD and can socialize but are awkward.

I understand that Jenny McCarthy wants to get the word about autism out there, but I am not going to accept hard science from someone who shows her boobs for a living.

[Freakshow]

Turn of the damn TV (http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20061019/tv-implicated-in-autism-rise)

Can't hurt to turn it off...

[topless_mike]

having a young son, autism scared the shit out of me.

since clinton de-regulated the healthcare industry, we have been bombarded by lots of ads for drugs, which, imo, has lead to lots of false diagnosis by both drs and self-diagnosis (wait... i have that... i need those pills).

im on the fence with autism.

[MobCounty]

Got a niece with mild autism.. Jesus, it's scary. Thankfully, she is getting back on track with therapy.

[DarkHippie]

A called named "Kevin" just dropped a fact that back in the day, 1 in every 10,000 kids was considered autistic, now it's 1 in 160.

Here's the difference on that data: The data has been skewed from calling people "profoundly autistic" (think Rain Man) to including people who have ADD and can socialize but are awkward.

I understand that Jenny McCarthy wants to get the word about autism out there, but I am not going to accept hard science from someone who shows her boobs for a living.

Autism is not exactly a disease. Rather it is a spectrum of symptoms invovling communication caused by many different disorders. It is more than just Rain Man, in fact that type very rare.

I've spent the last few years working with people along the spectrum. While I am not an expert. I know a little bit and can answer some questions if you have any.

This link is one of the best I've seen in explaining autism. http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/understanding-autism-basics

Incidentally, the leading authority on Autism is Simon Baron Cohen, the cousin of Sasha.

[PD]

Autism is not exactly a disease. Rather it is a spectrum of symptoms invovling communication caused by many different disorders. It is more than just Rain Man, in fact that type very rare.

I've spent the last few years working with people along the spectrum. While I am not an expert. I know a little bit and can answer some questions if you have any.

This link is one of the best I've seen in explaining autism. http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/understanding-autism-basics

Incidentally, the leading authority on Autism is Simon Baron Cohen, the cousin of Sasha.

excellent post.
I'm a father of a special needs kid and the misinformation that is out there is amazing.
people are understandably nervous about their kids.
I wonder how many people that worry about getting their kids immunized dont' wear seat belts or smoke cigs.

[Melissa the Accountant]

A called named "Kevin" just dropped a fact that back in the day, 1 in every 10,000 kids was considered autistic, now it's 1 in 160.

Here's the difference on that data: The data has been skewed from calling people "profoundly autistic" (think Rain Man) to including people who have ADD and can socialize but are awkward.

I understand that Jenny McCarthy wants to get the word about autism out there, but I am not going to accept hard science from someone who shows her boobs for a living.

Agree. Very much agree.

Another thing that skews the diagnostic statistics for autism is that our understanding of mental and developmental disorders has grown significantly in this century alone. Autism didn't even exist as a diagnosis until the 40s, if I recall correctly. I'm betting there are a lot of children who are now being diagnosed as autistic, where 50 years ago the doctor would have diagnosed them as mentally retarded and called it a day. I hate it when people try to use statistics to argue this topic. We can't trust the historical figures. Hell. We don't even know we can trust the current ones.

[Freitag]

Autism is not exactly a disease. Rather it is a spectrum of symptoms invovling communication caused by many different disorders. It is more than just Rain Man, in fact that type very rare.

I've spent the last few years working with people along the spectrum. While I am not an expert. I know a little bit and can answer some questions if you have any.

This link is one of the best I've seen in explaining autism. http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/understanding-autism-basics

Incidentally, the leading authority on Autism is Simon Baron Cohen, the cousin of Sasha.

oh, I totally agree that the spectrum for autism has widened greatly. In fact, I more than qualify to have Asperger's syndrome. It's part of parents trying to classify why their children aren't "perfect", trying to classify a shy personality or someone who is awkward as something that can be treated, rather than letting kids be kids.

[DarkHippie]

oh, I totally agree that the spectrum for autism has widened greatly. In fact, I more than qualify to have Asperger's syndrome. It's part of parents trying to classify why their children aren't "perfect", trying to classify a shy personality or someone who is awkward as something that can be treated, rather than letting kids be kids.

Youre right about the parents. I think its part of the 'internet disease' --people read something on the internet and they think its true.

[Ron Marie Douglas]

having a young son, autism scared the shit out of me.

since clinton de-regulated the healthcare industry, we have been bombarded by lots of ads for drugs, which, imo, has lead to lots of false diagnosis by both drs and self-diagnosis (wait... i have that... i need those pills).

im on the fence with autism.

What in the world does this mean?

[GreatAmericanZero]

so many callers are such fear mongerers. They had a 1 in a billion shot of bad luck and they call up and tell dave that its common

that one caller today seemed crazy to me. i think the fact that he had 2 autistic children proves that its in his genetics more than anything else

[Recyclerz]

I think labelling the callers "fear mongers", while probably literally true, is a bit unfair.

I agree with the skeptics that the autism epidemic is probably the result of a combination of factors - changes in diagnostic parameters; societial pressure to have "perfect" kids (or to have a labeled excuse if you don't); older parents; etc. - but I don't think that we can say that there has been enough study done on some of the potential causes (eg. increased chemical loads in kids) to rule them out with a reasonable certainty, even though our current evidence leans that way. I've worked for the chemical and pharmacuetical industries for awhile and I'm aware that the safety testing that is done, while extensive and legitimate, doesn't catch every potential problem in new products. Effects that don't show up in test groups of hundreds or thousands sometimes do show up when the exposed populations are in the millions or higher. As Ron has (wisely) pointed out a couple of times on the show, the exposure of kids to the multitude of man-made chemicals has really only been in the last two generations and we may not have the tools or perspective to catch all the effects yet.

I know that people like to get caught up in manias, whether its finding kid touchers in every day care center, burning witches or buying tulips or internet stocks, and this autism movement certainly feels like one of those to me. However, I don't want to reflexively become the automatic backlash guy either, especially with a commodity as valuable as kids. Let's try to agree to take the hype and the heat off this issue and let the Mike the Teachers out there do their work without the PR people or the plaintiff's bar messing up the results.

[DarkHippie]

I think labelling the callers "fear mongers", while probably literally true, is a bit unfair.

I agree with the skeptics that the autism epidemic is probably the result of a combination of factors - changes in diagnostic parameters; societial pressure to have "perfect" kids (or to have a labeled excuse if you don't); older parents; etc. - but I don't think that we can say that there has been enough study done on some of the potential causes (eg. increased chemical loads in kids) to rule them out with a reasonable certainty, even though our current evidence leans that way. I've worked for the chemical and pharmacuetical industries for awhile and I'm aware that the safety testing that is done, while extensive and legitimate, doesn't catch every potential problem in new products. Effects that don't show up in test groups of hundreds or thousands sometimes do show up when the exposed populations are in the millions or higher. As Ron has (wisely) pointed out a couple of times on the show, the exposure of kids to the multitude of man-made chemicals has really only been in the last two generations and we may not have the tools or perspective to catch all the effects yet.


The reason why autism seems to come from all of these different places is because it is a sympton of different diseases. Therefore, it probably comes from chemicals, genetics, television, vaccines, and anything else you can think of, because these things might cause another illness that manifests autism as a symptom.

That's crazy. It can be causes by 'anything' so just live your freakin life. Blaming chemicals or vaccines for autism is like blaming the street for getting hit by a bus.

[SlicedAlone]

I got a younger cousin with autism who always asks me where either Sammy Sosa or Mark McGwire lives. He still does it to this day and has been doing since their home run race. He also falls into swimming pools every chance he gets and I call him lieutenant slapabitch cause at every family function at some point you'll hear a girl from the family screaming somewhere and you'll find ol george has her in his clutches ready to DDT her ass. He's has a short fuse and has a rainman like obsession with wrestling. but yeah, Its crazy they talked about the whole possible connection between Autism and vaccinations because I had that same talk with someone yesterday. If there is a correlation it makes you wonder what other mental and physical problems might be due to the shit we have had injected in us.

[Sharadoc]

Everyone has someone in their family or circle of friends with autism. NOT the trouble socializing kind, but some form of developmental and/or speech delay, severe anxiety and socialization issues, etc. It's NOT bad luck or genetics, although they think genetics may play a part in the body's inability to flush out all of the chemicals and toxins that are common in our environment.

In the early 90's, the vaccination schedule almost TRIPLED for kids through the age of 2. They were given shots with enough mercury preservative in them to kill a 600 pound adult, yet fragile 3 month olds were expected to process all of the chemicals just because the government said they should.

Industries have been deregulated, more "crap" is going into the air, food and water, so there are more "defective" humans that are exposed to it.

Anyone who thinks it's just better diagnosis is kidding themselves. The alternative is to recognize that our government has knowingly put the needs of large corporations ahead of the needs of our children in their quest for a guaranteed revenue stream.

When they finally took the mercury preservative out of the vaccines, the didn't stop using them. Those vaccines have been in the health care system up to a couple of years ago, which means the kids that are just getting diagnosed at the ages of 3 or 4 may still have gotten the mercury shots. The ones that were not sold by the pharmaceuticals were shipped out of the county - do some research on the explosion of autism in China and Africa where those shots were sent.

If I could offer advice to Dave and Casey, I'd say get the shots for MMR, Chicken Pox, DPT, etc. Just get them one at a time. There is a schedule of legally having them before day care or school, that's all. Your dr. can't force you to get them now. Have the nurse check the ingredients in the package to make sure there's no thimerosol. Put a little Epsom salt in her bath water - that's a natural chelation agent that could remove excess mercury or heavy metals from her system safely through the skin.

Sorry - soapbox time. It's important to me - my son has autism and I live it every moment.

Sharon

[Melissa the Accountant]

Sorry - soapbox time. It's important to me - my son has autism and I live it every moment.

This is a majorly emotionally charged issue for me as well, only my opinion is the polar opposite of yours. I get so irritated hearing about everyone's "proof" that vaccinations cause autism that I actually had to turn off the show the other day because it just annoys me so much. My mom has driven herself and everyone else in the family crazy trying to convince everyone how it has been proven that trace mercury in immunizations is what caused my brother's autism. She has allowed this to consume her life so thoroughly that she won't even get him any occupational therapy or anything - she is still looking for some magic bullet, and he's 20 years old.

I am so completely unpersuaded by everything she has come up with. I blame food additives before I blame vaccinations. I read a couple years ago that there is more mercury in canned tuna than in vaccinations. I can't cite anything to support it, although I also kind of doubt you can cite anything to support your claim that there is "enough mercury to kill a 600 pound adult". Heavy metal poisoning doesn't work that way.

I do agree with you that it's good to space out immunizations, if for no other reason than it is easier on the system and will make it easier to identify the specific vaccine responsible if a reaction occurs. And I'll concede it is possible that if a kid was born with a milder developmental disorder, it could be exacerbated by a heavy duty vaccination schedule. But the fear-mongering associated with vaccinations really bothers me. If they ever did a study (which they couldn't, this would be tremendously unethical) in which a thousand kids were immunized and a control group of a thousand kids were not immunized, I'm betting a predictable percentage of children in the first group would turn up with autism. And I'm also guessing that a sadly unnecessary number of the kids in the second group would wind up dying from the complications of their measles, mumps and polio.

Sorry, I'm not trying to make you feel attacked. It's hard not to respond emotionally to this issue when you are related to an autistic person. But I disagree really strongly with your viewpoint with respect to what caused your child's condition.

[NewYorkDragons80]

Like most of the people in this thread, I think the supposed rise in autism comes from a multitude of factors, but I've been skeptical of unnecessary vaccinations for a while now. For instance, why are kids vaccinated against things like the chicken pox? It's less risky to get the sickness itself. If there is an autism risk in vaccinations, we really should be reserving vaccinations for only the most important cases (i.e. the ones required for school entry).

As a 23 year old who is an expert on everything and never ever wrong, my advice to Dave is to let your kid get the chickenpox. It's part of being a damn kid.

[Serpico1103]

A called named "Kevin" just dropped a fact that back in the day, 1 in every 10,000 kids was considered autistic, now it's 1 in 160.

Here's the difference on that data: The data has been skewed from calling people "profoundly autistic" (think Rain Man) to including people who have ADD and can socialize but are awkward.

I understand that Jenny McCarthy wants to get the word about autism out there, but I am not going to accept hard science from someone who shows her boobs for a living.

Of course, that is the trouble with not analyzing statistics. For example, the Ashley Madison rep said the site grew 200% in California. From what to what? 200% growth of 2 people is 6 people.
She also said it is the largest website of its kind. Well, how many web sites of its kind are there?
The autism spectrum was been widened to include disorders that were not previously considered autistic. So, you would to see if the number of children that would have been considered autistic before the definition was changed has increased materially in recent years.
It probably has, atleast is seems like there are more extremely autistic children now, but maybe not by as much as that statistic would lead you to believe.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Bumper sticker idea:

Just Because Your Kid Isn't Perfect
Doesn't Mean They're Autistic

[RMPGP]

A called named "Kevin" just dropped a fact that back in the day, 1 in every 10,000 kids was considered autistic, now it's 1 in 160.

Here's the difference on that data: The data has been skewed from calling people "profoundly autistic" (think Rain Man) to including people who have ADD and can socialize but are awkward.

I understand that Jenny McCarthy wants to get the word about autism out there, but I am not going to accept hard science from someone who shows her boobs for a living.

I agree, there does seem to be a big US fear of this, like it's the media's newest "shark attack" angle for the medical community. How does avoiding those shots decrease the chances of becoming autistic? The research says it's mainly genetic.

But those shots do seem a bit much. I'm not sure if I'd want them done on my kids. Anytime you inject large doses of chemicals into an infant's body, there has to be some risk involved.

[Sharadoc]

Melissa, per your note: "If they ever did a study (which they couldn't, this would be tremendously unethical) in which a thousand kids were immunized and a control group of a thousand kids were not immunized, I'm betting a predictable percentage of children in the first group would turn up with autism. And I'm also guessing that a sadly unnecessary number of the kids in the second group would wind up dying from the complications of their measles, mumps and polio. "

Actually a statistical study was done with Amish children vs. the general population in Lancaster County, and there were NO incidences of autism among the Amish (and that population is sizable there, so it wasn't just a few kids). There WERE kids with autism among the "English". The only measurable difference between the two was vaccines. Polio is actually considered to be eradicated - the only cases have been from the live vaccines, which generally aren't given any more.

The amount of mercury in a vaccine would not be equivalent to eating ONE can of tuna, but hundreds.

My point is that there are toxins everywhere, but the increase in the amount of vaccines directly correlates with the significant increase in autism.

I don't feel attacked - it's fine to discuss a topic, and yes having an emotional investment in the argument makes it more difficult. What I think is interesting is that the tide seems to be turning against parents of kids with autism, and the kids themselves. People are tired of it. That's kind of evident by some of the comments here.

Please give your Mom a break - nothing is worse than knowing that someday she'll be gone and who will take care of your brother? The despair I feel when that thought hits me is unbearable and listening to Ron and Fez is one of the things that makes my daily life bearable.

Take care,

[spoon]

Everyone has someone in their family or circle of friends with autism. NOT the trouble socializing kind, but some form of developmental and/or speech delay, severe anxiety and socialization issues, etc. It's NOT bad luck or genetics, although they think genetics may play a part in the body's inability to flush out all of the chemicals and toxins that are common in our environment.

In the early 90's, the vaccination schedule almost TRIPLED for kids through the age of 2. They were given shots with enough mercury preservative in them to kill a 600 pound adult, yet fragile 3 month olds were expected to process all of the chemicals just because the government said they should.

Industries have been deregulated, more "crap" is going into the air, food and water, so there are more "defective" humans that are exposed to it.

Anyone who thinks it's just better diagnosis is kidding themselves. The alternative is to recognize that our government has knowingly put the needs of large corporations ahead of the needs of our children in their quest for a guaranteed revenue stream.

When they finally took the mercury preservative out of the vaccines, the didn't stop using them. Those vaccines have been in the health care system up to a couple of years ago, which means the kids that are just getting diagnosed at the ages of 3 or 4 may still have gotten the mercury shots. The ones that were not sold by the pharmaceuticals were shipped out of the county - do some research on the explosion of autism in China and Africa where those shots were sent.

If I could offer advice to Dave and Casey, I'd say get the shots for MMR, Chicken Pox, DPT, etc. Just get them one at a time. There is a schedule of legally having them before day care or school, that's all. Your dr. can't force you to get them now. Have the nurse check the ingredients in the package to make sure there's no thimerosol. Put a little Epsom salt in her bath water - that's a natural chelation agent that could remove excess mercury or heavy metals from her system safely through the skin.

Sorry - soapbox time. It's important to me - my son has autism and I live it every moment.

Sharon

Melissa, per your note: "If they ever did a study (which they couldn't, this would be tremendously unethical) in which a thousand kids were immunized and a control group of a thousand kids were not immunized, I'm betting a predictable percentage of children in the first group would turn up with autism. And I'm also guessing that a sadly unnecessary number of the kids in the second group would wind up dying from the complications of their measles, mumps and polio. "

Actually a statistical study was done with Amish children vs. the general population in Lancaster County, and there were NO incidences of autism among the Amish (and that population is sizable there, so it wasn't just a few kids). There WERE kids with autism among the "English". The only measurable difference between the two was vaccines. Polio is actually considered to be eradicated - the only cases have been from the live vaccines, which generally aren't given any more.

The amount of mercury in a vaccine would not be equivalent to eating ONE can of tuna, but hundreds.

My point is that there are toxins everywhere, but the increase in the amount of vaccines directly correlates with the significant increase in autism.

I don't feel attacked - it's fine to discuss a topic, and yes having an emotional investment in the argument makes it more difficult. What I think is interesting is that the tide seems to be turning against parents of kids with autism, and the kids themselves. People are tired of it. That's kind of evident by some of the comments here.

Please give your Mom a break - nothing is worse than knowing that someday she'll be gone and who will take care of your brother? The despair I feel when that thought hits me is unbearable and listening to Ron and Fez is one of the things that makes my daily life bearable.

Take care,

Very informed post, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Sorry Matty, but you love to take "stands" and make waves versus researching the information that is out there. Sure the spectrum has been expanded, but in reality it's been done bc we understand the disease better now. It is clearly more a 1% of 100 things versus 100% of 1 thing, but to say modern medicine is playing this out for sensationalism or other causes is crazy. Sure parents can be over the top and look for reasons for issues with their kids, but to take your stance and bumper sticker approach is insane. I have a few friends on this very board who struggle with autistic children on a daily basis, and I assure you the fucking idiotic bumper sticker you propose is not the case.

Mel, it sounds like your actually more angry with your mother, then with autisim. Just bc she has lost sight of regaining her life and moving on as best she could after the unfortunate issues with her son, doesn't make the disease or the struggles she and he face any less real. Some time you need to take a step back and be the bigger person.

[Sharadoc]

Here's an excerpt from a study:

What we have learned in the last couple of years is that the underlying medical condition of autism is neuroinflammatory disease. In a study conducted at John Hopkins University, brain tissue from deceased autistic patients was examined. The tissue showed an active neuroinflammatory process and marked activation of microglia cells. Neuroinflammatory disease is synonymous with an activation of microglia cells.

A study done at the University of Washington showed that baby primates exposed to injected thimerosal (50 percent mercury), at a rate equal to the 1990s childhood vaccine schedule, retained twice as much inorganic mercury in their brains as primates exposed to equal amounts of ingested methylmercury. We know from autometallographic determination that inorganic mercury present in the brain, following the dealkylation of organic mercury, is the toxic agent responsible for changes in the microglial population and leads to neuroinflammation.

Recently it was shown that in more than 250 examined patients, atypical urinary porphyrins were almost three times higher in autistic patients than controls. Porphyrins are precursors to heme, the oxygen-carrying component of blood. Mercury inhibits the conversion of porphyrins to heme. When the patients were treated to remove mercury, urinary porphyrins returned to normal levels.

In a study done at the University of Arkansas, autistic children were found to have significantly lower levels of the antioxidant glutathione. Glutathione is the major antioxidant needed for the elimination of mercury at the cellular level. This may explain why some children are more severely affected by thimerosal in vaccines than others.

While all the government-conducted epidemiological (statistical) studies show no link between thimerosal and autism, the clinical studies examining brain tissue, blood, urine and human cells show a completely different picture.

In other words, YES, studies have been done to show what injected mercury does to the brain. There are many other reasons for autism, I'm sure, but I can tell you without a doubt that since having done chelation to remove mercury from my son's body, he has become enormously more social, can handle any sort of situation in public, and is more apt to offer words and/or conversation.

I'm done now - everyone have a GREAT day. I won't post any more about it!!!! :surrender:

Sharon

[PD]

Here's an excerpt from a study:

What we have learned in the last couple of years is that the underlying medical condition of autism is neuroinflammatory disease. In a study conducted at John Hopkins University, brain tissue from deceased autistic patients was examined. The tissue showed an active neuroinflammatory process and marked activation of microglia cells. Neuroinflammatory disease is synonymous with an activation of microglia cells.

A study done at the University of Washington showed that baby primates exposed to injected thimerosal (50 percent mercury), at a rate equal to the 1990s childhood vaccine schedule, retained twice as much inorganic mercury in their brains as primates exposed to equal amounts of ingested methylmercury. We know from autometallographic determination that inorganic mercury present in the brain, following the dealkylation of organic mercury, is the toxic agent responsible for changes in the microglial population and leads to neuroinflammation.

Recently it was shown that in more than 250 examined patients, atypical urinary porphyrins were almost three times higher in autistic patients than controls. Porphyrins are precursors to heme, the oxygen-carrying component of blood. Mercury inhibits the conversion of porphyrins to heme. When the patients were treated to remove mercury, urinary porphyrins returned to normal levels.

In a study done at the University of Arkansas, autistic children were found to have significantly lower levels of the antioxidant glutathione. Glutathione is the major antioxidant needed for the elimination of mercury at the cellular level. This may explain why some children are more severely affected by thimerosal in vaccines than others.

While all the government-conducted epidemiological (statistical) studies show no link between thimerosal and autism, the clinical studies examining brain tissue, blood, urine and human cells show a completely different picture.

In other words, YES, studies have been done to show what injected mercury does to the brain. There are many other reasons for autism, I'm sure, but I can tell you without a doubt that since having done chelation to remove mercury from my son's body, he has become enormously more social, can handle any sort of situation in public, and is more apt to offer words and/or conversation.

I'm done now - everyone have a GREAT day. I won't post any more about it!!!! :surrender:

Sharon

Most of the people here aren't saying there is NO correlation (or that there is a correlation); the big thing is (like most) it's a complicated issue and needs to be researched before making decisions. You seem to have been doing that - and it seems to have helped your son- no surrender needed.

[Melissa the Accountant]

Melissa, per your note: "If they ever did a study (which they couldn't, this would be tremendously unethical) in which a thousand kids were immunized and a control group of a thousand kids were not immunized, I'm betting a predictable percentage of children in the first group would turn up with autism. And I'm also guessing that a sadly unnecessary number of the kids in the second group would wind up dying from the complications of their measles, mumps and polio. "

Actually a statistical study was done with Amish children vs. the general population in Lancaster County, and there were NO incidences of autism among the Amish (and that population is sizable there, so it wasn't just a few kids). There WERE kids with autism among the "English". The only measurable difference between the two was vaccines. Polio is actually considered to be eradicated - the only cases have been from the live vaccines, which generally aren't given any more.

The amount of mercury in a vaccine would not be equivalent to eating ONE can of tuna, but hundreds.

My point is that there are toxins everywhere, but the increase in the amount of vaccines directly correlates with the significant increase in autism.

I don't feel attacked - it's fine to discuss a topic, and yes having an emotional investment in the argument makes it more difficult. What I think is interesting is that the tide seems to be turning against parents of kids with autism, and the kids themselves. People are tired of it. That's kind of evident by some of the comments here.

Please give your Mom a break - nothing is worse than knowing that someday she'll be gone and who will take care of your brother? The despair I feel when that thought hits me is unbearable and listening to Ron and Fez is one of the things that makes my daily life bearable.

Take care,

Fair enough. I thought about this for a couple of days before responding. Thinking over everything, I still strongly disagree with you. But I think I can understand your perspective a little better. Since neither of us can truly prove our side of the issue, the best we can do is try to make our opinion more convincing by each interpreting our respective studies in a way that supports our views. So in that sense, I do see your point, that arguing won't really help anything.

Mel, it sounds like your actually more angry with your mother, then with autisim. Just bc she has lost sight of regaining her life and moving on as best she could after the unfortunate issues with her son, doesn't make the disease or the struggles she and he face any less real.

I considered your remark and decided it was somewhat insightful, and although I don't think you are entirely correct, that's not really your fault since you don't know me or my family. It's true that I do have a lot of problems with my mother, most of which are not related to autism or to my brother at all. And I'll concede that perhaps my anger with her has made me feel more strongly about this issue than I might otherwise.

But I've also simply never had any patience for people who accept something as fact when it has not been embraced by the scientific community at large. My mother is pretty much the exact opposite of a skeptic in every aspect of her life, and frankly, it's pretty irritating to try to hold on a conversation with someone who thinks that her belief in something makes it a proven fact. Try having a happy Thanksgiving dinner when you're the only person in the family who doesn't accept it as fact that homosexuality is caused by demon possession. Seriously. I'm not just being a cunt about them.

She has told me time and time again that my brother's autism was caused by vaccines, and it's hard to take any of it seriously. He wasn't even given the basic inoculations until he was past three and needed them for preschool or something - and suddenly this is supposed to be the retroactive cause for the fact that he wasn't talking and that he screamed and flailed if you touched him? My brother was born years after me , when my mother was almost 40 and had had a difficult pregnancy, and guess what I'm saying is that I think it is unreasonable to refuse to even consider other potential contributors. I can't pretend that our circumstances are similar to anybody else's, but I hate it when people ignore other possibilities and narrow their scope to just one thing.

So I guess my problem is that I think people who blame vaccines and don't want to acknowledge that we don't actually know enough about autism to say anything for sure have blinders on. Citing statistical studies is not proof. Correlation does not imply causation. There are a variety of other environmental, genetic, and neurological factors at work, and I think it's questionable to attribute a complex disorder to just one thing. It's possible vaccines have something to do with it. It's also possible they don't, and it bothers me that anti-vaccination people don't want to acknowledge that. I also think it's dangerous to frighten parents away from inoculating their kids against serious childhood illnesses.

At any rate, this was an interesting discussion, and although I took a long time to think things over and reply to you, it was good for me to take a step back and look more critically at my motives. Thanks for talking.

Also. I actually did consider the bumper sticker joke funny. And if my autistic brother had a sense of humor, I bet he would too.

[extracheese]

Forgive me for taking the thread on a different course...but regardless of the causes (known or unknown); what treatment methods, therapy techniques, or procedures have you found to been the most beneficial in improving the symptoms of Autism?

I work with special needs children including some with "mild" to "moderate" PDD and was wondering (from those who know best - family members of those affected) what worked best for your child.

[Mike Teacher]

So I guess my problem is that I think people who blame vaccines and don't want to acknowledge that we don't actually know enough about autism to say anything for sure have blinders on. Citing statistical studies is not proof. Correlation does not imply causation. There are a variety of other environmental, genetic, and neurological factors at work, and I think it's questionable to attribute a complex disorder to just one thing. It's possible vaccines have something to do with it. It's also possible they don't, and it bothers me that anti-vaccination people don't want to acknowledge that. I also think it's dangerous to frighten parents away from inoculating their kids against serious childhood illnesses.

Someone mentioned wanting to hear my wannabe opinion, but I cant do better than the above.

[RMPGP]

My indirect experience with vaccinations is as follow: my ex wife's sister had a baby that was beautiful and normal... and then they had the vaccination and immediately complications arose.

Ever since then, their child hasn't been able to talk, walk, move on its own, or been functional at all other than breathing. The poor thing is beyond any form of autism, and more along the lines of severe mental retardation.

Mike : I heard about newer vaccinations that were given orally and more safe, is there anything to this? Why do they have to be injected?

[Tenbatsuzen]

So I guess my problem is that I think people who blame vaccines and don't want to acknowledge that we don't actually know enough about autism to say anything for sure have blinders on. Citing statistical studies is not proof. Correlation does not imply causation. There are a variety of other environmental, genetic, and neurological factors at work, and I think it's questionable to attribute a complex disorder to just one thing. It's possible vaccines have something to do with it. It's also possible they don't, and it bothers me that anti-vaccination people don't want to acknowledge that. I also think it's dangerous to frighten parents away from inoculating their kids against serious childhood illnesses.

This sums up my feelings 100 percent. Beautifully put.

[spoon]

Hey Mel, thanks for the well thought out reply. I have to say I don't disagree with most of what you type and you're obviously right about my lack of intimate knowledge of your family. However, you'll almost never get a whole communtiy of scientist to agree on something 100%, simply bc it's never 100% one way or the other. It's true in most respected scientific eyes that autisim is caused by a wide range of factors in all different areas....one of them seemingly those specific ingredient containing vacs.

Good luck with the family too, sounds like a really interesting discussion on turkey day. Funny thing is, all our parents are pretty set in their ways, and it can be fun to be the only voice of reason at the table on certain subjects if you go in with the right attitude. I wish you the best.

[Freitag]

Sorry Matty, but you love to take "stands" and make waves versus researching the information that is out there. Sure the spectrum has been expanded, but in reality it's been done bc we understand the disease better now. It is clearly more a 1% of 100 things versus 100% of 1 thing, but to say modern medicine is playing this out for sensationalism or other causes is crazy. Sure parents can be over the top and look for reasons for issues with their kids, but to take your stance and bumper sticker approach is insane. I have a few friends on this very board who struggle with autistic children on a daily basis, and I assure you the fucking idiotic bumper sticker you propose is not the case.



First, the bumper sticker thing was mainly a joke, but there are a lot of parents out there who overanalyze their kids. My point was, people are using flawed statistical data because of the spectrum's expansion.

Overdiagnosis and spectrum expansion is what led to the skewed statistics, not a sudden outbreak of overvaccinations.

[Freakshow]

New research suggests that some cases of autism arise from defects in genes that can be turned on or off by mental activity, a finding that sheds light on the devastating condition and might eventually lead to strategies to treat it (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/10/AR2008071002750.html?hpid=sec-health)

Also in the article:

Studies have suggested that genes probably contribute about 70 percent to a child's risk of developing autism. Whether environmental exposures or life events can trigger the disease is unknown. Numerous studies have found that childhood vaccinations, and a mercury-containing preservative that vaccines once contained, almost certainly do not play a role.

[DarkHippie]

New research suggests that some cases of autism arise from defects in genes that can be turned on or off by mental activity, a finding that sheds light on the devastating condition and might eventually lead to strategies to treat it (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/10/AR2008071002750.html?hpid=sec-health)

Also in the article:

Not surprising. My first cousin is autistic, and I didnt starting speaking until I was almost 4. I still have trouble speaking. Oddly enough, i was reading and writing by the age of 3.

[PD]

New research suggests that some cases of autism arise from defects in genes that can be turned on or off by mental activity, a finding that sheds light on the devastating condition and might eventually lead to strategies to treat it (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/10/AR2008071002750.html?hpid=sec-health)

Also in the article:

and add this:
Measles Outbreak spreads to 15 states (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379388,00.html)

I respect parent concerns, but you need to consider all of the facts.

Last month British health officials said measles had become an epidemic in that country for the first time since the mid-1990s due to parents not getting their children vaccinated.

"With the whole debate about vaccines — and now parents due to their personal beliefs not vaccinating their children — what we are seeing now is that we are going to have these epidemic outbreaks throughout the country," said Dr. Manny Alvarez, managing editor of health at FOXNews.com.

"If this continues, we will see outbreaks throughout the entire developed world — something we have never seen before," he added.

The MMR vaccine (measles, mumps, and rubella) is the safest protection you can give your child against this virus, according to the CDC.