Are human beings meant to be more of a conduit or an individual entity?

[utriculus!]

I was just pondering my own neurosis, and I started wondering if the flaw to most of the things that come up with myself and others is in the aggressive attempts to carve out a true Individuality.


What do you think? Is it healthier for one's conscious experience of existence to act as a conduit for reality to flow through, or as a deposit for reality to be processed on an individual level?


I always imagined Ron and Fez fans as ponderous creatures.

And I don't imagine that I'm wrong.

[Judge Smails]

I like turtles.

[Sue_Bender]

Yes.

[Friday]

I like turtles.

well fuck... who doesn't?

[Fallon]

well fuck... who doesn't?

Shredder.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6796/tmntshredderca5.jpg

[utriculus!]

Perhaps more suitable for Sleeves fans haha.

[PapaBear]

Perhaps more suitable for Sleeves fans haha.
I take offense to that!




I like turtles, too.

[utriculus!]

Another thought along the same lines, wouldn't the idea that desiring too much individuality and the inability to sleep go hand in hand?


I feel like insomnia is the resistance to giving way to the unconscious of sleep. Too much individuality preventing itself from dissolving...

[Chigworthy]

Why do I sleep so easy?

[Sue_Bender]

I'd be sleeping right now, but I've got the shits.

[Reynolds]

I'd be sleeping right now, but I've got the shits.

https://www.skateboard.com.au/shop/products/shtblk.jpg

[Sue_Bender]

https://www.skateboard.com.au/shop/products/shtblk.jpg

I'm attempting to avoid doing that again tonight.

[Mike Teacher]

Why do I sleep so easy?

You read this thread.

[cougarjake13]

ponderous effing ponderous

[cougarjake13]

do robots dream of electric sheep ???

[joethebartender]

I was just pondering my own neurosis, and I started wondering if the flaw to most of the things that come up with myself and others is in the aggressive attempts to carve out a true Individuality.


What do you think? Is it healthier for one's conscious experience of existence to act as a conduit for reality to flow through, or as a deposit for reality to be processed on an individual level?


I always imagined Ron and Fez fans as ponderous creatures.

And I don't imagine that I'm wrong.

Put the bong down and go get yourself some yodels or something now.:wacko:

[Freakshow]

Hail Xenu!

[utriculus!]

Put the bong down and go get yourself some yodels or something now.:wacko:

Haha, yeah, I was definitely stoned for this post.

Was half wanting to continue the annoyingness of my other thread and half that I was actually thinking about that in my pot-addled brain.

I still am curious about this idea but posting it in OT of a r+f board is stoner logic ;)

[Chigworthy]

I prefer pendulous to ponderous.

[King Hippos Bandaid]

Do I like Bacon, or does Bacon like me

[Chigworthy]

Do I like Bacon, or does Bacon like me

Still going with the bacon thing? At least switch to sausage for a bit.

[LaBoob]

I was just pondering my own neurosis, and I started wondering if the flaw to most of the things that come up with myself and others is in the aggressive attempts to carve out a true Individuality.


What do you think? Is it healthier for one's conscious experience of existence to act as a conduit for reality to flow through, or as a deposit for reality to be processed on an individual level?


I always imagined Ron and Fez fans as ponderous creatures.

And I don't imagine that I'm wrong.


I am always up for the pot talk, but for the life of me I can't understand your question. Clean it up and I'd respond. :unsure:

[utriculus!]

I am always up for the pot talk, but for the life of me I can't understand your question. Clean it up and I'd respond. :unsure:

Basically I think what I was going for is the idea of whether or not its productive and healthy to form a strong sense of individuality, a separate-ness from reality, as opposed to sort of letting things go through you as you live without making it "about you".

Our culture seems very focused on embracing yourself, and developing that self.

My question I think is whether thats good or bad for the individual's mind compared to being without so much ego.

[LaBoob]

Basically I think what I was going for is the idea of whether or not its productive and healthy to form a strong sense of individuality, a separate-ness from reality, as opposed to sort of letting things go through you as you live without making it "about you".

Our culture seems very focused on embracing yourself, and developing that self.

My question I think is whether thats good or bad for the individual's mind compared to being without so much ego.

It is? I think people are more focused on finding themselves within groups, or their own culture. It's human nature to perceive reality in terms of you own experience, or through the terms of your own culture, that's why cultural relativism is such a huge factor in anthropology. It's very difficult NOT to do this, I'd say damn near impossible.

Sociologist (http://ronfez.net/wiki/Sociologist) William Graham Sumner (http://ronfez.net/wiki/William_Graham_Sumner) called attention to the fact that one's culture can limit one's perceptions. He called this principle ethnocentrism (http://ronfez.net/wiki/Ethnocentrism), the viewpoint that "one’s own group is the center of everything," against which all other groups are judged. (Wikipedia)

When talking about creating your own "reality"... reality is relative to the individual and how their brains perceive time and space... the truth may be that we all feel like we are experiencing our own individual reality, when really we're moving through a "reality" that's constructed for us by the rules of our society.

[utriculus!]

It is? I think people are more focused on finding themselves within groups, or their own culture. It's human nature to perceive reality in terms of you own experience, or through the terms of your own culture, that's why cultural relativism is such a huge factor in anthropology. It's very difficult NOT to do this, I'd say damn near impossible.

(Wikipedia)

When talking about creating your own "reality"... reality is relative to the individual and how their brains perceive time and space... the truth may be that we all feel like we are experiencing our own individual reality, when really we're moving through a "reality" that's constructed for us by the rules of our society.

Very true, we are by nature inescapably subjective; I'd never argue with that fact. Actually, it is the violent and constant assertion of that fact in my brain that has caused me to lose it a bit. Every thought I have gets flagged as unavoidably subjective and therefore tainted, to be retooled and re-thought based on this asumption, endlessly, only to end up with something equally flawed and subjective when I finally give in. Nice little loop I've built to drive myself mad with actually.



I think my question is more oriented towards whether or not--given that subjectivity--it is healthy to seek to define oneself so vehemently, regardless of whether that is through individual means or through groups?

What you said is very true, but I think that regardless of that people are still very focused on having an "identity", and tend to see a strong identity a desirable quality to possess.

I'm starting to wonder if it's productive to think this way, given the ephemeral nature of our time alive. We spend eternity as nothing, and a few years as something, before returning to nothing once again.

Perhaps it is fighting our nature to sharpen the edges that separate us as human beings from everything else? Perhaps it is more natural to embrace a more blurry sense of separation between yourself and "the rest of things".

[LaBoob]

Very true, we are by nature inescapably subjective; I'd never argue with that fact. Actually, it is the violent and constant assertion of that fact in my brain that has caused me to lose it a bit. Every thought I have gets flagged as unavoidably subjective and therefore tainted, to be retooled and re-thought based on this asumption, endlessly, only to end up with something equally flawed and subjective when I finally give in. Nice little loop I've built to drive myself mad with actually.



I think my question is more oriented towards whether or not--given that subjectivity--it is healthy to seek to define oneself so vehemently, regardless of whether that is through individual means or through groups?

What you said is very true, but I think that regardless of that people are still very focused on having an "identity", and tend to see a strong identity a desirable quality to possess.

I'm starting to wonder if it's productive to think this way, given the ephemeral nature of our time alive. We spend eternity as nothing, and a few years as something, before returning to nothing once again.

Perhaps it is fighting our nature to sharpen the edges that separate us as human beings from everything else? Perhaps it is more natural to embrace a more blurry sense of separation between yourself and "the rest of things".

This is possibly one of the largest reasons wars, genocide, and even everyday murders happen... people, trying to "define themselves" get caught up in thinking they're more important than the next person or group of people... again, this is human nature. Didn't Ron say just the other day that when he's out and about and just happens to take a look around at the other people, he finds it hard to imagine that these people/strangers even have souls? Perfect example. Of course, I'm not saying it ends in murder in every instance, but I think a LOT of people get caught up in self-importance (myself and everyone I know included!!!), when, let's face it, none of us are important at all in terms of the universe.

I think the more quickly we realize that we are insignificant and unimportant, the better, as it frees us up to enjoy our experiences more fully.

[utriculus!]

This is possibly one of the largest reasons wars, genocide, and even everyday murders happen... people, trying to "define themselves" get caught up in thinking they're more important than the next person or group of people... again, this is human nature. Didn't Ron say just the other day that when he's out and about and just happens to take a look around at the other people, he finds it hard to imagine that these people/strangers even have souls? Perfect example. Of course, I'm not saying it ends in murder in every instance, but I think a LOT of people get caught up in self-importance (myself and everyone I know included!!!), when, let's face it, none of us are important at all in terms of the universe.

I think the more quickly we realize that we are insignificant and unimportant, the better, as it frees us up to enjoy our experiences more fully.


Word.

Coincidentally, I'm about to get a tattoo with the words "Better living through insignificance."

hah.

[LaBoob]

Word.

Coincidentally, I'm about to get a tattoo with the words "Better living through insignificance."

hah.

Haha... did you ever see or read the Power of Myth? I wanted to get a tattoo for the longest time saying "Former Indras All..." from when Joseph Campbell told the story about the Indra who thought he was the most important person that ever lived, until someone showed him a line of thousands of little ants marching and pointed out that they were "former Indras all". Nothing like a little perspective shift! And the older I get the more and more that means to me...

[FUNKMAN]

Not us! We are here to ruin ourselves and to break our hearts and love the wrong people and *die*. The storybooks are *bullshit*. Now I want you to come upstairs with me and *get* in my bed!

[Recyclerz]

Not us! We are here to ruin ourselves and to break our hearts and love the wrong people and *die*. The storybooks are *bullshit*. Now I want you to come upstairs with me and *get* in my bed!

Funkman - keeping it real, Nic Cage style.

I try to drop this little gem into all philosophical/pot talk threads:

To be is to do—Socrates
To do is to be—Jean Paul Sartre
Do be do be do—Sinatra

And lastly (to the oldtimers reading the thread), is it just me or does utriculus! remind you of The Chairman on a three day peyote bender?

[utriculus!]

Haha... did you ever see or read the Power of Myth? I wanted to get a tattoo for the longest time saying "Former Indras All..." from when Joseph Campbell told the story about the Indra who thought he was the most important person that ever lived, until someone showed him a line of thousands of little ants marching and pointed out that they were "former Indras all". Nothing like a little perspective shift! And the older I get the more and more that means to me...

Never read it but thats a simple and concise little snippet of wisdom. Might pick it up!

[Devo37]

mustache.

[DonInNC]

The answer is to develop your individuality in a way that can contribute to the common good. If you spend all your time creating great art but never show it to anyone, then you might as well have done paint by numbers. It's great if you read books, watch good films, and travel the world in order to develop yourself, but it's a big waste of time if you don't share what you've gained from those experiences.

[utriculus!]

The answer is to develop your individuality in a way that can contribute to the common good. If you spend all your time creating great art but never show it to anyone, then you might as well have done paint by numbers. It's great if you read books, watch good films, and travel the world in order to develop yourself, but it's a big waste of time if you don't share what you've gained from those experiences.


Somethin' to that.

[Franklyn]

Not to be a dick but we are meant to do both, live as individuals and "tune in" to our collective spirit. It's the unbalance towards the physical and the self that causes problems. A search for individualism would be fine if we understood and tapped into the group. It would only enrich the whole.

[utriculus!]

Not to be a dick but we are meant to do both, live as individuals and "tune in" to our collective spirit. It's the unbalance towards the physical and the self that causes problems. A search for individualism would be fine if we understood and tapped into the group. It would only enrich the whole.

Perhaps in theory this could be true, but I feel like I may have seen this search for individualism result in a muddled idea of the group's relation to the individual, which not only does not enrich the whole but segregates people further.

[utriculus!]

Also why would responding to my post make you a dick? lol

[Franklyn]

Well yes, but the collective I am speaking of is spiritual or mental if you will. In the physical world a weaker person will be over run. thats why I self understanding and the collective unconsciousness must be explored first then a harmony could theoretically occur. until we are whole, individually on that plane we will have a hard time with mutual respect.

[Franklyn]

Also why would responding to my post make you a dick? lol

I wanted to give u more of a black and white answer

[utriculus!]

Well yes, but the collective I am speaking of is spiritual or mental if you will. In the physical world a weaker person will be over run. thats why I self understanding and the collective unconsciousness must be explored first then a harmony could theoretically occur. until we are whole, individually on that plane we will have a hard time with mutual respect.


I have never been comfortable with making that much of a leap of faith to consider a collective unconscious.

I can't say it's not a valid force, but I can't say that it is, either. A little too ethereal for my tastes.

What I consider a collective unconscious is a little more tangible I think in that it is the product of human social attitudes, etc, being fed constantly into a sort of "standard".

Almost the same phenomenon as "common sense"