All Star Batman and Robin

[JustJon]

So the hardcover with the first 9 issues came out last week and I finally read it. All I can say is holy shit, did Miller create another fucked up Batman story. Gotta say I really like the take, but the Dick Grayson storyline was just weird.

Otherwise I found it very cool. Batman was a fucking headcase and it just made so much sense. And I like the way he worked in the other heroes to the story, showing how Miller really felt about some of them.

Great Jim Lee art (one of my fave artists) that really brought out the story (and Black Canary's boobs). And "Leave the mask on"

[Sheeplovr]

maybe its better when its all collected but i feel its beyond aweful

[HBox]

I hear the GODDAMNED BATMAN is in this.

[booster11373]

I tapped out on this along time ago, a buddy said it makes more sence as a parody and if read that way it would be more enjoyable but........

[JustJon]

You have to read it as it's not Batman, it's the Dark Knight Batman. Once you get past the whole psycho Batman thing, it's really a unique take on the character.

[TheMojoPin]

It's shit. Miller has been shit for at least a decade now. He's easily one of the worst writers working at the moment.

[TooLowBrow]

joker got a tattoo?

[donnie_darko]

read it as if its the dark knight batman? that makes no sense.

the only good part of this series was when they painted the room yellow.

Other than that I'll stick to the Superman Batman comics which are occasionally interesting.....

[Mike Kingston]

I always took it as parody which makes it semi enjoyable for me. Trouble is I don't think Miller meant it like that...

[Aqualad]

You guys are nuts. ASB&R is the greatest comic book being published today.

[HBox]

You guys are nuts. ASB&R is the greatest comic book being published today.

I know. It's the GODDAMN shit.

[Aqualad]

read it as if its the dark knight batman? that makes no sense.
.

Sure it does. Read Year One, then All-Star, then Spawn/Batman, then Dark Knight Returns, then Dark Knight Strikes Again. It's the same guy. Miller has always written Batman as a dangerous lunatic.

[EliSnow]

Sure it does. Read Year One, then All-Star, then Spawn/Batman, then Dark Knight Returns, then Dark Knight Strikes Again. It's the same guy. Miller has always written Batman as a dangerous lunatic.

I disagree with regard to Year One. The Batman in Year One is not the same Batman as the Batman in All Star or Dark Knight. He is a focused and obsessive person, but I don't see him as being a dangerous lunatic in that book. And I don't see that character calling a young boy "retarded" and saying he's the "goddamn Batman."

Now that the Year One Batman could have become the Dark Knight Batman after years of crimefighting, but I don't see him becoming that type of person by the time All Star Batman occurs.

[TooLowBrow]

I disagree with regard to Year One. The Batman in Year One is not the same Batman as the Batman in All Star or Dark Knight. He is a focused and obsessive person, but I don't see him as being a dangerous lunatic in that book. And I don't see that character calling a young boy "retarded" and saying he's the "goddamn Batman."

Now that the Year One Batman could have become the Dark Knight Batman after years of crimefighting, but I don't see him becoming that type of person by the time All Star Batman occurs.

also batman is an introvert. he keeps shit to himself.
this batman seems like hed be yelling 'get over here, asshole!' to bad guys.
instead batman keeps his mouth shut and lets his fists do the talking.

[Aqualad]

I disagree with regard to Year One. The Batman in Year One is not the same Batman as the Batman in All Star or Dark Knight. He is a focused and obsessive person, but I don't see him as being a dangerous lunatic in that book. And I don't see that character calling a young boy "retarded" and saying he's the "goddamn Batman."

Now that the Year One Batman could have become the Dark Knight Batman after years of crimefighting, but I don't see him becoming that type of person by the time All Star Batman occurs.

The Batman of Year One is the least-crazy of all of Miller's books. But he is obsessive and borderline suicidal. I could see YO Batman turn to All-Star Batman after a year or two of fighting the worst scum Gotham has to offer.

[TheMojoPin]

Nobody is going to say Batman is sane...he dresses up like a fucking bat and fights people. But Miller's latest take is just an asshole, and a pretty stupid/lucky one at that. On top of that, Miller seems to only have two "voices" now...the asshole protagonist who just stupidly plows through to the conclusion and then any cluessless, "liberal" (typically hinted at to be gay or have "swishy" characteristics) wimp, good or bad, who gets in his way. I'm not even gonna pretend that he has a "voice" for women since he writes them all as whores (literally or figuritively), brainless or betrayers. Miller has turned into the Michael Savage of comic writers. Fuck him.

[EliSnow]

The Batman of Year One is the least-crazy of all of Miller's books. But he is obsessive and borderline suicidal. I could see YO Batman turn to All-Star Batman after a year or two of fighting the worst scum Gotham has to offer.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

[Knowledged_one]

I'm not even gonna pretend that he has a "voice" for women since he writes them all as whores (literally or figuritively), brainless or betrayers. Miller has turned into the Michael Savage of comic writers. Fuck him.

I mean lets be honest isnt that all that women really are in the end

[booster11373]

Miller seems to only have two "voices" now...the asshole protagonist who just stupidly plows through to the conclusion and then any cluessless, "liberal" (typically hinted at to be gay or have "swishy" characteristics) wimp, good or bad, who gets in his way. I'm not even gonna pretend that he has a "voice" for women since he writes them all as whores (literally or figuritively), brainless or betrayers. Miller has turned into the Michael Savage of comic writers. Fuck him.


Im clapping in a room by myself right now. Right On Brother Right On.

[Aqualad]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

I don't agree to that.

[JustJon]

Has Frank Miller written/created any strong female characters besides Elektra?

[booster11373]

Has Frank Miller written/created any strong female characters besides Elektra?


Carrie from DKR?

[TheMojoPin]

Has Frank Miller written/created any strong female characters besides Elektra?

Martha Washington.

[Snoogans]

They still make comics?

[TheMojoPin]

Shouldn't you be watching a Dodgers game while you finish up the latest "I LUVE KOBE" newsletter?

[Captain Rooster]

Link to the collection, Jon? Now I need to start reading this title. Thanks for the write-up.

[TheMojoPin]

This is kind of series that makes reading comics embarassing.

Y'know, more than usual.

[Captain Rooster]

This is kind of series that makes reading comics embarassing.

Y'know, more than usual.


Hey look, everybody, I make vague and ridiculous comments.

[TheMojoPin]

Hey look, everybody, I make vague and ridiculous comments.

Yes, because I was very specific on the previous page as to why I can't stand this series or almost anything Miller has written in a good decade or so.

For anyone that cares, pretty good and amusing in-depth breakdowns (complete with purty pictures) of the first 6 issues of this mess of a series. (http://atopfourthwall.blogspot.com/)

Seriously, if anyone is just wanting a standalone take on a classic character that's REALLY well done, just look right "next door" to All Star Superman.

[EliSnow]

Seriously, if anyone is just wanting a standalone take on a classic character that's REALLY well done, just look right "next door" to All Star Superman.

Agreed. When they introduced the "All Star" series, it was supposed to offer classic takes on these characters that borrows ideas from the entire histories of the characters that would not be burdened by the continuty of such history.

All Star Superman does that and exceeds expectations. However, apparently, All Star Batman only works as a parody of the Batman history. So it doesn't live up to its purpose.

[TheMojoPin]

Agreed. When they introduced the "All Star" series, it was supposed to offer classic takes on these characters that borrows ideas from the entire histories of the characters that would not be burdened by the continuty of such history.

All Star Superman does that and exceeds expectations. However, apparently, All Star Batman only works as a parody of the Batman history. So it doesn't live up to its purpose.

Damn right...hell, ASB&R doesn't even work as a parody as some are trying to spin it because it's written with such obvious spite and loathing. All I can guess is that Miller is fed up with superheroes (he's hinted as much in recent years) and this is his clumsy, hamfisted way to "stick it to them."

[EliSnow]

Damn right...hell, ASB&R doesn't even work as a parody as some are trying to spin it because it's written with such obvious spite and loathing. All I can guess is that Miller is fed up with superheroes (he's hinted as much in recent years) and this is his clumsy, hamfisted way to "stick it to them."

I know several writers who really don't like writing superheroes (Ennis and Ellis), but neither of them really try to stick it to superheroes in this way. Ellis doesn't stick it to the X-Men when writing the X-Men, and Ennis usually doesn't write superheroes.

When he does, it's his own creations (The Boys).

[TheMojoPin]

I know several writers who really don't like writing superheroes (Ennis and Ellis), but neither of them really try to stick it to superheroes in this way. Ellis doesn't stick it to the X-Men when writing the X-Men, and Ennis usually doesn't write superheroes.

When he does, it's his own creations (The Boys).

Exactly. Ellis shows he can work with the medium and still produce quality even though it's not his favorite type of character to write. Ennis is pretty obviously full of disdain for superheroes, but he doesn't go out of his way to sloppily tear down the icon characters like Miller is and embarass himself. Ennis does some pretty obvious and juvenile parodies with things like The Pro, but he's not presenting something like that as anything more than the purile joke that it is. Miller's latest just really feels like he thinks he's so much better than the genre that all but made him who he is and he's trying to show it who's boss....and failing miserably.

[Aqualad]

It's funny. Not in a "so-bad-it's-good" way but in a legitimately funny way.

[EliSnow]

It's funny. Not in a "so-bad-it's-good" way but in a legitimately funny way.

But should it be? Given that it's Batman, and the concept of the "All-Star" series, should this series be funny? I'm not against using humor in the series, but if you had to choose a word to describe an "All Star" story about Batman, it should not be "funny."

[JustJon]

This is kind of series that makes reading comics embarassing.

Y'know, more than usual.

I find this far less embarrassing than the BIFF! POW! bullshit.

[Aqualad]

But should it be? Given that it's Batman, and the concept of the "All-Star" series, should this series be funny? I'm not against using humor in the series, but if you had to choose a word to describe an "All Star" story about Batman, it should not be "funny."

Miller didn't deliver what DC promised us from the title; they said we'd get "iconic" stories (i hate that word) about the characters divorced from DCU Continuity. What we got instead was Frank Miller doing the ultimate "Frank Miller" Batman story. If it came out as a regular miniseries, like Gotham After Midnight, hardly anybody would have a problem with it. DC should just abandon the "All-Star" concept after Grant and Quitely finish Superman, and let Miller and Lee continue doing what they do.

[EliSnow]

Miller didn't deliver what DC promised us from the title; they said we'd get "iconic" stories (i hate that word) about the characters divorced from DCU Continuity. What we got instead was Frank Miller doing the ultimate "Frank Miller" Batman story. If it came out as a regular miniseries, like Gotham After Midnight, hardly anybody would have a problem with it. DC should just abandon the "All-Star" concept after Grant and Quitely finish Superman, and let Miller and Lee continue doing what they do.

I wouldn't say that people wouldn't have a problem with the series even if it wasn't an "All Star" comic (I still think it's crap regardless of the title), but the above is the biggest reason for the problem.

A truly All Star Batman would have been a great thing.

[TheMojoPin]

I find this far less embarrassing than the BIFF! POW! bullshit.

At least that was fun. This is just exploitative bullshit that fullfills every sterotype about how women are depcited in comics.

[TheMojoPin]

Miller didn't deliver what DC promised us from the title; they said we'd get "iconic" stories (i hate that word) about the characters divorced from DCU Continuity. What we got instead was Frank Miller doing the ultimate "Frank Miller" Batman story. If it came out as a regular miniseries, like Gotham After Midnight, hardly anybody would have a problem with it. DC should just abandon the "All-Star" concept after Grant and Quitely finish Superman, and let Miller and Lee continue doing what they do.

People have a problem with it because Miller's writing of Batman has been shit for two straight series now (three if you count the hideous Spawn/Batman one-shot he wrote), which is totally schitzo compared to the two stories he was known for with the character before. I simply don't see how you see this as an extension of what he created with Year One or TDKR. He's pulled a complete George Lucas in coming back to a character years after the fact and completely getting wrong what people appreciated about his take in the first place. No, Frank, YO and TDKR weren't amazing because Batman was an asshole. No, Frank, nobody wants to see you apply your retread Sin City bullshit that's been running on empty for years. No, Frank, nobody wants to see your extremist Libertarian take on everything. No, Frank, most people don't agree with your low view of women. I'm sure he and Dave Sim hang out and high five their cocks together talking about how much women suck an should shut the fuck up and how they're only good for fucking and making babies.

If Miller wrote Daredevil again, I'd give him 2 issues before he had DD raping some weakly created female villain (who, of course, is also a hooker) with his billyclub.

God, he's going to fucking butcher the Spirit.

[AnnoyedGrunt]

You say nobody wants to read it, yet it's still DC's most popular book. You know, when it bothers to come out.

I've only read bits and pieces of it online but it seems to me that Jim Lee is the wrong artist for the book. It's nicely done but it seems far too earnest. If Miller is doing a crazy, over the top parody then someone like Kevin O'Neill would be a better fit. Of course the sales would probably be cut in half but at least it would come out on a regular basis.

[TheMojoPin]

You say nobody wants to read it, yet it's still DC's most popular book. You know, when it bothers to come out.

Everybody loves a trainwreck. Besides, Lee and Miller are names that simply don't do major superhero titles these days, so them being attached to it is going to draw in a huge numbers of buyers who only want it for them. And yes, "nobody" actually wants to read what Miller is putting out now as if it's good. I'm sure he has his diehards, but something like this is just hopes he'll recapture his glory days and the pairing of two big names on an iconic character.

Hell, Liefeld is generally regarded as pure shit, but the few times he does a major guest spot the sales spike. Nickleback and Creed and far and wide considered to be horrible at best, yet sell millions of copies of their albums. Adam Sandler continually gets the #1 spot at the box office. Sales do not equal quality.

[Aqualad]

Everybody loves a trainwreck. Besides, Lee and Miller are names that simply don't do major superhero titles these days, so them being attached to it is going to draw in a huge numbers of buyers who only want it for them. And yes, "nobody" actually wants to read what Miller is putting out now as if it's good. I'm sure he has his diehards, but something like this is just hopes he'll recapture his glory days and the pairing of two big names on an iconic character.

Hell, Liefeld is generally regarded as pure shit, but the few times he does a major guest spot the sales spike. Nickleback and Creed and far and wide considered to be horrible at best, yet sell millions of copies of their albums. Adam Sandler continually gets the #1 spot at the box office. Sales do not equal quality.

I like it. At first I liked it in that Ed Wood sort of way, but it turned the corner with me after the Robin vs Green Lantern issue. It's a hoot and I am thoroughly enjoying every crazy-ass minute of it.

[Aqualad]

People have a problem with it because Miller's writing of Batman has been shit for two straight series now (three if you count the hideous Spawn/Batman one-shot he wrote), which is totally schitzo compared to the two stories he was known for with the character before. I simply don't see how you see this as an extension of what he created with Year One or TDKR. He's pulled a complete George Lucas in coming back to a character years after the fact and completely getting wrong what people appreciated about his take in the first place. No, Frank, YO and TDKR weren't amazing because Batman was an asshole. No, Frank, nobody wants to see you apply your retread Sin City bullshit that's been running on empty for years. No, Frank, nobody wants to see your extremist Libertarian take on everything. No, Frank, most people don't agree with your low view of women. I'm sure he and Dave Sim hang out and high five their cocks together talking about how much women suck an should shut the fuck up and how they're only good for fucking and making babies.

If Miller wrote Daredevil again, I'd give him 2 issues before he had DD raping some weakly created female villain (who, of course, is also a hooker) with his billyclub.

God, he's going to fucking butcher the Spirit.

Reread The Dark Knight Returns. Old Batman is completely out of his mind.

[JustJon]

I like it. At first I liked it in that Ed Wood sort of way, but it turned the corner with me after the Robin vs Green Lantern issue. It's a hoot and I am thoroughly enjoying every crazy-ass minute of it.

I agree I didn't enjoy the first 2 or 3 issues as much and wouldn't have kept up monthly after that, but since it's book form and you run thru 9 issues, it becomes alot more coherent and more fun to read.

[booster11373]

The very worst part of this piece of crap is that I think it has torpedoed any other "All Star" from ever coming out and crushed a potential interesting line of books from DC

I like All Star Superman but its greatness is the other side of the coin to AS B and R

[JustJon]

The very worst part of this piece of crap is that I think it has torpedoed any other "All Star" from ever coming out and crushed a potential interesting line of books from DC

I like All Star Superman but its greatness is the other side of the coin to AS B and R

Aren't they doing an All Star Wonder Woman?

[TheMojoPin]

Reread The Dark Knight Returns. Old Batman is completely out of his mind.

I don't think he is at all. He's much more harsh and bitter, and hell, sometimes damn near fascist (Miller's love of The Fountainhead really started to shine through there), but isn't the out and out psychopath asshole that BINO (Batman in name only, as the site I linked to put it) is. On top of that, TDKR Batman is older and reacting to a world gone to hell without him and looking back on his experiences and reacting accordingly. BINO has been at the job for, what, a year?

Batman in any form is inherrently damaged, but BINO is just nonsensical and a dick to the nth degree for no reason at all. He's not smart...he attempts to solve any problem by other hitting it or fucking it...and he apparently has no problem killing people. Miller's looseness with Batman offing guys has always been a sticking point. He does it at points in TDKR where there's really no way to justify it.

[Aqualad]

'There are seven working defenses from this position. Three of them disarm with minimal contact. Three of them kill. The other--hurts.'

KRAK! Kick to the balls

[TheMojoPin]

'There are seven working defenses from this position. Three of them disarm with minimal contact. Three of them kill. The other--hurts.'

KRAK! Kick to the balls

Yeah, he breaks the hip of an armed criminal. It's harsh, but BINO would have run him over with his car a few times and screamed "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN, YOU LITTLE FAIRY QUEER!!!"

[Aqualad]

Yeah, he breaks the hip of an armed criminal. It's harsh, but BINO would have run him over with his car a few times and screamed "I'M THE GODDAMN BATMAN, YOU LITTLE FAIRY QUEER!!!"

And think of how much more awesomer that would be. :smile:

[TheMojoPin]

And think of how much more awesomer that would be. :smile:

Hahahahahahah!

Actually, if Miller had made him balls-out crazy instead of just an insane prick, you're right, I could read the hell out of that.

[MisterSmith]

Hahahahahahah!

Actually, if Miller had made him balls-out crazy instead of just an insane prick, you're right, I could read the hell out of that.

That might be an amusing Elseworlds story; Batman is an off-the-wall lunatic and the Joker is troubled, but sane. Batman is still the good guy and the Joker is still a criminal, but the roles are reversed.

It doesn't even have to be accurate; the story could be told from the Joker's point of view. He sees what he does as Sane and what Batman does as Insane. Since you are "along for the ride" in Joker's head, Batman looks/acts like a complete nutjob. It would seem like Joker's responses are completely rational and only serve to counter Batman's lunacy.

Hmmmmmmm.