is sting an icon?

[MIKEYDAKEN]

filpping the channels last night and once again I hear mike tenay call sting an icon. why? what has he done besides be blond sting for 10 years then be spooky crow sting for 12 more. icons in wrestling are people who change the business like Flair, Hogan,Piper and guys that have been innovative in some way or another and just remember folks I don't hate sting I'm just questioning icon status so please no douche bombs

[Kevin]

filpping the channels last night and once again I hear mike tenay call sting an icon. why? what has he done besides be blond sting for 10 years then be spooky crow sting for 12 more. icons in wrestling are people who change the business like Flair, Hogan,Piper and guys that have been innovative in some way or another and just remember folks I don't hate sting I'm just questioning icon status so please no douche bombs

Prob not, he basically wrestled in the minor leagues his whole career.

[epo]

Prob not, he basically wrestled in the minor leagues his whole career.

I would disagree with the "minor leagues" statement. Even if you disagree about federations, he has always worked with very good talent around him.

However Sting would be a borderline "icon". His early work was damned impressive, but honestly he hasn't done much in about 10 years.

[Kevin]

I would disagree with the "minor leagues" statement. Even if you disagree about federations, he has always worked with very good talent around him.

However Sting would be a borderline "icon". His early work was damned impressive, but honestly he hasn't done much in about 10 years.

Yea, you could argue that he was damn good for a while there but, i don't think kids know who Sting is like they do with Bret or Rock or Hogan and others.

[BlackSpider]

If being a mediocre bass player makes you an Icon,
then yes...

-And then, you can all start calling me an Icon...

[Tallman388]

Sting is no icon. He was always a step or two below major talents like Flair or Hogan. He never really did much to distinguish himself as that big name. Sure the Crow gimmick was a step, but he didn't really move past that to stand out.

[MIKEYDAKEN]

glad to see that I'm not the only one that feels this way

[epo]

Yea, you could argue that he was damn good for a while there but, i don't think kids know who Sting is like they do with Bret or Rock or Hogan and others.

If popularity is the basis for an "icon" then I have a question. Is Ricky Steamboat an icon?

[Kevin]

If popularity is the basis for an "icon" then I have a question. Is Ricky Steamboat an icon?

I guess you have a point there.

[K.C.]

He's BACK...in BLACK!

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[Dash77]

Well how do you judge ? Is it about title regains , or how the crowned backs him, He's always been a crowed favorite and has had some classic matches and revelries..

[K.C.]

Yea, you could argue that he was damn good for a while there but, i don't think kids know who Sting is like they do with Bret or Rock or Hogan and others.

I don't think kids know who Bret is at this point.


I'd say Sting absolutely was a WCW icon, which would make him a wrestling icon. If you go back and watch from about 1990 on, he's easily the biggest babyface in the company for a good decade.

Sting vs. Flair and Sting vs. the nWo was probably two of the biggest feuds in the company's history during that stretch as well.


Now, I think Sting was largely a creation of Ric Flair. Flair carried him to some of the best matches ever, and made Sting that much better by how good a heel he was, but it doesn't change the fact that he was one of the most important wrestlers through the 90s.


I think people easily dismiss him, because he didn't go to the Federation after WCW folded. And WWE is very vindictive in the sense that they re-write a lot of history now that they own everything, and don't give a lot of credit to guys that don't give in to their demands (see: Macho Man Randy Savage, and the almost complete erasing of him in terms of importance in all WWE retrospective DVDs).

And for a lot of people, if you don't watch TNA (I don't, and apparently most people don't either), the last time you saw Sting was seven years ago making Flair tap out on the last episode of Nitro.

It's been a long time.

[Kevin]

He's BACK...in BLACK!

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Way to be on the ball on the bat Tony. HE DROPPED THE BAT. Like 2 hours later.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If Sting did a run in WWE, he might have cemented his legacy. But he didn't.

Sting was a very good wrestler, but he is overshadowed now by a lot of people.

Knowing how Vinny Mac works, you won't even see him get into the HOF.

[Tenbatsuzen]

If popularity is the basis for an "icon" then I have a question. Is Ricky Steamboat an icon?

Steamboat was a part of a legendary 80's angle. It's probably one of the top three best angles Savage was ever involved with, outside of the NWO.

[K.C.]

If Sting did a run in WWE, he might have cemented his legacy.

You're right in the sense that WWE would probably bring him up more in their retrospectives as a big part of the past (although even in recent years, Flair would put over Sting when he used to cut promos about the 'old days.'...hell, I think he even used to put over Luger everyone in a while too, who was god awful).

But there's also a lot of people like me who kind of tapped out after WCW folded, who don't really watch today, but still pick up some DVDs that remember the guy being a big time star.


Knowing how Vinny Mac works, you won't even see him get into the HOF.

As far as I can remember, but I haven't really been reading stuff lately so it may have changed, the only person that Vince has said he would NEVER do business with again is Randy Savage.

The rumors about that used to span from 'Vince blamed him for Elizabeth's downfall' to 'Vince is still pissed about Savage jumping ship to WCW in the 90s' to 'Savage deflowered a young Stephanie McMahon.'


If anything, Sting might turn down the HOF if it was ever offered. I think the reason he never went to WWE was because he had a religious objection to it, dating back to the Attitude days.

[Tenbatsuzen]

As far as I can remember, but I haven't really been reading stuff lately so it may have changed, the only person that Vince has said he would NEVER do business with again is Randy Savage.

The rumors about that used to span from 'Vince blamed him for Elizabeth's downfall' to 'Vince is still pissed about Savage jumping ship to WCW in the 90s' to 'Savage deflowered a young Stephanie McMahon.'



Wha? When did this Savage hate from Vinny come from? If anything, I thought Savage left on good terms because he didn't want to do color on RAW in a Lawler-like role, he thought he could still wrestle, and that's why he jumped to WCW.

The person responsible for Liz's downfall is directly more Luger than Savage. Hell, Liz had two or three long term relationships after Savage.

[JackBurton Says]

I would say he is an ICON just for the fact that he spent most of his career in wcw and being that I NEVER watched wcw as a child and only wwf or ecw, I knew who Sting was. Along with Flair, Vadar, and Luger from wcw. So I'm just basing it on that. From where I grew up in south jersey wcw was shit and nobody watched it, yet we knew and respected Sting. So based on that I would say yes.

[K.C.]

Wha? When did this Savage hate from Vinny come from? If anything, I thought Savage left on good terms because he didn't want to do color on RAW in a Lawler-like role, he thought he could still wrestle, and that's why he jumped to WCW.

The person responsible for Liz's downfall is directly more Luger than Savage. Hell, Liz had two or three long term relationships after Savage.

Yeah, I can't believe the Liz thing is the reason either.

No one knows where it's come from, but there's a reason he's the only big name in that era not in the HOF, or that he's never appeared on WWE TV since he left in '94, or that they don't really talk about him.

It's really suspicious.

Vince has literally forgiven and done business with EVERYONE who's really crossed him, except Savage.

They won't even do a Savage DVD.

So there's something to it.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I can't believe the Liz thing is the reason either.

No one knows where it's come from, but there's a reason he's the only big name in that era not in the HOF, or that he's never appeared on WWE TV since he left in '94, or that they don't really talk about him.

It's really suspicious.

Vince has literally forgiven and done business with EVERYONE who's really crossed him, except Savage.

They won't even do a Savage DVD.

So there's something to it.

Maybe Hogan is being his usual bitch, phony self and filling Vince with bullshit.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Yeah, I can't believe the Liz thing is the reason either.

No one knows where it's come from, but there's a reason he's the only big name in that era not in the HOF, or that he's never appeared on WWE TV since he left in '94, or that they don't really talk about him.

It's really suspicious.

Vince has literally forgiven and done business with EVERYONE who's really crossed him, except Savage.

They won't even do a Savage DVD.

So there's something to it.

But how has Savage "crossed" him?

He never sued Vince. (Sable)

He left on someone OK terms.

He didn't badmouth the WWE after he left constantly (Bret Hart)

Savage is out of his fucking mind, but I can't think of a lot of heat he'd get outside of being nuts.

[CYYYFYYY]

Don;t like him one bit. But he nis an ICon. One of the best winning percentages in pay fer views.

[Tenbatsuzen]

Don;t like him one bit. But he nis an ICon. One of the best winning percentages in pay fer views.

So does Goldberg. Don't use fucking wrestling "stats" for leeway in an argument over a fixed sport. Flair's stats on PPVs is probably in the shitter.

[Bossanova]

I recall that his face paint used to wear off during matches more times than not. on that alone he can not possibly be considered an Icon

[HBox]

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5828/215722mt7.gif

There. He's an icon.

[K.C.]

But how has Savage "crossed" him?

He never sued Vince. (Sable)

He left on someone OK terms.

He didn't badmouth the WWE after he left constantly (Bret Hart)

Savage is out of his fucking mind, but I can't think of a lot of heat he'd get outside of being nuts.



John Lucas asks: Ask the Editor is my favorite feature on the website. Here's a question. Vince McMahon has always put aside bad feelings towards others in the interest of doing business and making money. However, this does not hold true for Mach Man Randy Savage. What is the problem Vince McMahon has with Randy Savage? Does Savage have an issue with McMahon?

WK: It's one of the most widely speculated questions in the industry, and most people on the inside who speak about this believe it has something to do with interaction Savage had with Stephanie McMahon years ago. Savage left WWE where he was co-hosting Raw for WCW to become an active wrestler again and enjoyed a resurgence of his in-ring career at that point, but many wrestlers left under similar circumstances that McMahon has welcomed back in the interest of generating fan interest. I do know that McMahon bristles at the mere mention of Savage's name, and it's considered taboo within WWE to even acknowledge Savage in front of McMahon. McMahon has made is clear over the years bringing Savage back is out of the question and no up for debate.


No one knows for sure, but that's what people inside say about it.


Backstage News On Vince's Hatred For Randy Savage
Story reported by Tim Brown of Headline Planet
Wednesday, December 19 2007
Details on the WWE chairman's grudge against The Macho Man

Sources: F4WOnline.com

- At the 15th Raw Anniversary show, Hulk Hogan made reference to "Macho Man" Randy Savage by saying "Never Say Never, Ooooh Yeah," the last two words in the distinct Randy Savage voice. Hogan simply ad-libbed his name and there's really nothing more to it.

Though Vince McMahon has said in the past that he'd never do business with the likes of Hulk Hogan Sable, Steve Austin, or Brock Lesnar (although he's been negative on all ideas involving Lesnar since he pulled out of negotiations with WWE in the summer of 2005), Randy Savage is the one person he never listens to an idea pitched for. Whenever people on creative pitch ideas for talent on Vince's bad side, he usually shouts a few expletives and tells them to forget about it. In several instances, Vince's hatred dissipates, and he does business with people who were once on his bad side. Vince sometimes has a need to prove he can get back people who rip his company and claim to never want to return. Anyway, a while ago, Michael Hayes came up with an idea for a possible Randy Savage WWE return. Vince didn't give the usual expletive-laden response, but simply looked off into the distance, collected his thoughts, and said, "I do not want to do business with that man." And he left it at that.

Sometime within the last year or two, Jakks Pacific tried to sign Randy Savage for the Classic Superstars line up. However, Vince McMahon butted in and reneged an agreement between the two parties. In the past, he has allowed them to sign a number of wrestlers on bad terms with WWE, including Bret "The Hitman" Hart, Bruno Sammartino, The Honky Tonk Man, and even The Ultimate Warrior on two occasions. Savage remains one of the only prominent former WWE stars who hasn't signed up with Jakks for an action figure.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I recall that his face paint used to wear off during matches more times than not. on that alone he can not possibly be considered an Icon

Muta would like to have a word with you.

I mean, did you even SEE the Muta Scale match?

He wore a full-face mask of red paint to the ring, all of it got "wiped" away, only to replaced with BLOOD by the end of the match.

[Tenbatsuzen]

I did the math. Steph was 18 when Savage left. That's rather creepy.

[Chimee]

Knowing how Vinny Mac works, you won't even see him get into the HOF.

I think that Sting would have ended up in the HOF, but now that he's the big go-to star for TNA, it's probably not going to happen unless he has a big falling out with TNA or Vince ends up owning them too.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Sting will probably do a retirement angle with TNA ala Flair with WWE.

[ponelas park townie]

The strange rivalry between Vince McMahon and Randy Savage continues as McMahon has made the decision to scrap plans for a Randy Savage and Sting DVD, both of which we reported as being on WWE's schedule of DVD releases for later this year.
While Sting makes sense, as he is under contract with TNA, how WWE allowed the Savage DVD title to be released to distributors is interesting as McMahon has hated Savage for a long time, although no one seems to know why.

When Savage's name is brought up for booking ideas, McMahon immediately shuts them down without giving a reason as to why. Also, Savage is the only name that is never considered when WWE does specials like the Raw 15th Anniversary.

Randy Savage left WWE in 1994 after SummerSlam and has never made a televised WWE appearance since. Interesting enough, he did do an interview for the debut issue of WWE's Smackdown! magazine in late 2003, which leads me to believe that the hatred is on McMahon's end.

Can anybody find that interview?